I’m not too hung up on the class relationship side of things outside of the fact that he counters every current mystic ability except atrophy that could stop him, the rarest ability in the class and also one that is currently underpowered to actually be significant and found in kits that don’t really work well on attack…
So basically we need an atrophy attacker that deals high damage and has such a high powered version of atrophy that every buff on a timer becomes irrelevant. Sounds like a really healthy option for the game.
Shathra has atrophy and really solid damage HOWEVER if the damage is burst then she will absolutely suck against him, if it's dot we might have the best counter so far joining the game soon which could alleviate some of these issues but is still unhealthy on the long run imo. We'll see once that deep dive is out, praying it is dot since the red numbers were popping up way too fast to be burst damage but I could be wrong of course.
One could almost believe that her damage was made to be burst so she couldn’t directly counter him at this point.
I wouldn't be surprised if it's burst and in fact I am expecting it to be burst, dot is way too good to be true lmao.
If it’s dot I’m buying her featureds. She looks good as is tbh but I really want her to be good for serpent
If it's dot I will get the pre-release bundle as well. Someone pointed out it looks a lot like Prowler's bursts and if that is the case then bummer cause she will suck for Serpent but if Kabam is generous for the first time this year and her damage is dot indeed then yeah, I'm gonna get that pre release and she goes straight to r6 sig 200. The atrophy and the power steal already address the main pain points all she needs is to be able to play around that dread and she could be the best.
Now that I think about it, this might've been the plan all along. Leave him as is and force people to spend a **** ton of money to get 7* Shathra... Smart, evil sure but smart.
I guess we’ll see in the deep dive tomorrow. I want to hope but also have no hope because the serpent news was just…why
I hope she’s good in general matchups if she doesn’t end up being a serpent counter at least
not gonna lie, i like it when kabam doesn't listen to us and just stick to their goals. they're not always right but most of the time they are and if history is any indication, the outrage is temporary and the game moves on.
it's been said that kabam intends on stretching this game out another 10 years and judging by how cautious they're being with some things like rank up materials and last year's banquet, you can tell that they're serious.
i hate fighting serp and bullseye (that's right, i'm a scrub!) in BGs and serpent is currently a terrible design but we have no idea what's in the works at kabam with character, kit, and class development. maybe we should give it a chance before busting out our phony baloney threats.
Maybe if DLL hadn't said that there will be no such thing as hard counters that completely shut off defenders, people wouldn't be as worried as they are.
Also no idea why you want Kabam to ignore everything the playerbase says, you're literally the one playing the game just like the rest of us. You're encouraging something that's unhealthy for the most part and has been killing a lot of the fun for most of us lately for absolutely no reason really.
the thing is...we're totally clueless about what's going on at kabam.
all we see is a problem (a legitimate one in our eyes) and demand immediate solutions. that's not how the game works. it could take 1-2 years for them to slowly revitalize how classes, kits, and mechanics work. and it could be better for the game and for us overall.
we don't know....BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW.
So you're suggesting people should just deal with a broken defender for years when Kabam could simply just flip a few switches and use the rebalancing program like it was meant to be used? Or maybe the rebalancing program is only there to prevent another Herc on attack since less revs means less people spending money, while a Herc on defense is good for them since it means more people will be spending resources to beat him wherever he goes with busted nodes like the one from the previous GC meta.
he's broken right now....but maybe that's entirely the point. serp is creating design space for creating brand new abilities. is that bad?
not gonna lie, i like it when kabam doesn't listen to us and just stick to their goals. they're not always right but most of the time they are and if history is any indication, the outrage is temporary and the game moves on.
it's been said that kabam intends on stretching this game out another 10 years and judging by how cautious they're being with some things like rank up materials and last year's banquet, you can tell that they're serious.
i hate fighting serp and bullseye (that's right, i'm a scrub!) in BGs and serpent is currently a terrible design but we have no idea what's in the works at kabam with character, kit, and class development. maybe we should give it a chance before busting out our phony baloney threats.
Maybe if DLL hadn't said that there will be no such thing as hard counters that completely shut off defenders, people wouldn't be as worried as they are.
Also no idea why you want Kabam to ignore everything the playerbase says, you're literally the one playing the game just like the rest of us. You're encouraging something that's unhealthy for the most part and has been killing a lot of the fun for most of us lately for absolutely no reason really.
the thing is...we're totally clueless about what's going on at kabam.
all we see is a problem (a legitimate one in our eyes) and demand immediate solutions. that's not how the game works. it could take 1-2 years for them to slowly revitalize how classes, kits, and mechanics work. and it could be better for the game and for us overall.
we don't know....BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW.
So you're suggesting people should just deal with a broken defender for years when Kabam could simply just flip a few switches and use the rebalancing program like it was meant to be used? Or maybe the rebalancing program is only there to prevent another Herc on attack since less revs means less people spending money, while a Herc on defense is good for them since it means more people will be spending resources to beat him wherever he goes with busted nodes like the one from the previous GC meta.
he's broken right now....but maybe that's entirely the point. serp is creating design space for creating brand new abilities. is that bad?
Doesn't change the fact that he's still broken, just because Herc's immortality paved the way for Dani's marked passive doesn't mean Herc isn't broken anymore. Them making hard counters is not healthy for the game on the long run no matter how you look at it, especially in BGs where draft is already RNG reliant.
I’m not too hung up on the class relationship side of things outside of the fact that he counters every current mystic ability except atrophy that could stop him, the rarest ability in the class and also one that is currently underpowered to actually be significant and found in kits that don’t really work well on attack…
So basically we need an atrophy attacker that deals high damage and has such a high powered version of atrophy that every buff on a timer becomes irrelevant. Sounds like a really healthy option for the game.
Shathra has atrophy and really solid damage HOWEVER if the damage is burst then she will absolutely suck against him, if it's dot we might have the best counter so far joining the game soon which could alleviate some of these issues but is still unhealthy on the long run imo. We'll see once that deep dive is out, praying it is dot since the red numbers were popping up way too fast to be burst damage but I could be wrong of course.
One could almost believe that her damage was made to be burst so she couldn’t directly counter him at this point.
I wouldn't be surprised if it's burst and in fact I am expecting it to be burst, dot is way too good to be true lmao.
If it’s dot I’m buying her featureds. She looks good as is tbh but I really want her to be good for serpent
If it's dot I will get the pre-release bundle as well. Someone pointed out it looks a lot like Prowler's bursts and if that is the case then bummer cause she will suck for Serpent but if Kabam is generous for the first time this year and her damage is dot indeed then yeah, I'm gonna get that pre release and she goes straight to r6 sig 200. The atrophy and the power steal already address the main pain points all she needs is to be able to play around that dread and she could be the best.
Now that I think about it, this might've been the plan all along. Leave him as is and force people to spend a **** ton of money to get 7* Shathra... Smart, evil sure but smart.
If you're going to spend a **** ton, just spend for the guaranteed 7* Nefaria who looks much more fun
I’m not too hung up on the class relationship side of things outside of the fact that he counters every current mystic ability except atrophy that could stop him, the rarest ability in the class and also one that is currently underpowered to actually be significant and found in kits that don’t really work well on attack…
So basically we need an atrophy attacker that deals high damage and has such a high powered version of atrophy that every buff on a timer becomes irrelevant. Sounds like a really healthy option for the game.
Shathra has atrophy and really solid damage HOWEVER if the damage is burst then she will absolutely suck against him, if it's dot we might have the best counter so far joining the game soon which could alleviate some of these issues but is still unhealthy on the long run imo. We'll see once that deep dive is out, praying it is dot since the red numbers were popping up way too fast to be burst damage but I could be wrong of course.
One could almost believe that her damage was made to be burst so she couldn’t directly counter him at this point.
I wouldn't be surprised if it's burst and in fact I am expecting it to be burst, dot is way too good to be true lmao.
If it’s dot I’m buying her featureds. She looks good as is tbh but I really want her to be good for serpent
If it's dot I will get the pre-release bundle as well. Someone pointed out it looks a lot like Prowler's bursts and if that is the case then bummer cause she will suck for Serpent but if Kabam is generous for the first time this year and her damage is dot indeed then yeah, I'm gonna get that pre release and she goes straight to r6 sig 200. The atrophy and the power steal already address the main pain points all she needs is to be able to play around that dread and she could be the best.
Now that I think about it, this might've been the plan all along. Leave him as is and force people to spend a **** ton of money to get 7* Shathra... Smart, evil sure but smart.
I guess we’ll see in the deep dive tomorrow. I want to hope but also have no hope because the serpent news was just…why
I hope she’s good in general matchups if she doesn’t end up being a serpent counter at least
I will be up at exactly 9am tomorrow with a big bowl of ramen just for that and wait til it's out. Tomorrow is the last chance they have to somewhat make up for that bs balance update. They won't redeem themselves completely by any means, but I can live with it for a while if Shathra is as good as I think she could be if the damage isn't burst.
I’m not too hung up on the class relationship side of things outside of the fact that he counters every current mystic ability except atrophy that could stop him, the rarest ability in the class and also one that is currently underpowered to actually be significant and found in kits that don’t really work well on attack…
So basically we need an atrophy attacker that deals high damage and has such a high powered version of atrophy that every buff on a timer becomes irrelevant. Sounds like a really healthy option for the game.
Shathra has atrophy and really solid damage HOWEVER if the damage is burst then she will absolutely suck against him, if it's dot we might have the best counter so far joining the game soon which could alleviate some of these issues but is still unhealthy on the long run imo. We'll see once that deep dive is out, praying it is dot since the red numbers were popping up way too fast to be burst damage but I could be wrong of course.
One could almost believe that her damage was made to be burst so she couldn’t directly counter him at this point.
I wouldn't be surprised if it's burst and in fact I am expecting it to be burst, dot is way too good to be true lmao.
If it’s dot I’m buying her featureds. She looks good as is tbh but I really want her to be good for serpent
If it's dot I will get the pre-release bundle as well. Someone pointed out it looks a lot like Prowler's bursts and if that is the case then bummer cause she will suck for Serpent but if Kabam is generous for the first time this year and her damage is dot indeed then yeah, I'm gonna get that pre release and she goes straight to r6 sig 200. The atrophy and the power steal already address the main pain points all she needs is to be able to play around that dread and she could be the best.
Now that I think about it, this might've been the plan all along. Leave him as is and force people to spend a **** ton of money to get 7* Shathra... Smart, evil sure but smart.
If you're going to spend a **** ton, just spend for the guaranteed 7* Nefaria who looks much more fun
Shathra looks fun to me as well, she’s got great power control, buff duration reduction, and most importantly enough damage (hope it’s dot like Longshot). I do agree that Nefaria looks fun as well
not gonna lie, i like it when kabam doesn't listen to us and just stick to their goals. they're not always right but most of the time they are and if history is any indication, the outrage is temporary and the game moves on.
it's been said that kabam intends on stretching this game out another 10 years and judging by how cautious they're being with some things like rank up materials and last year's banquet, you can tell that they're serious.
i hate fighting serp and bullseye (that's right, i'm a scrub!) in BGs and serpent is currently a terrible design but we have no idea what's in the works at kabam with character, kit, and class development. maybe we should give it a chance before busting out our phony baloney threats.
Maybe if DLL hadn't said that there will be no such thing as hard counters that completely shut off defenders, people wouldn't be as worried as they are.
Also no idea why you want Kabam to ignore everything the playerbase says, you're literally the one playing the game just like the rest of us. You're encouraging something that's unhealthy for the most part and has been killing a lot of the fun for most of us lately for absolutely no reason really.
the thing is...we're totally clueless about what's going on at kabam.
all we see is a problem (a legitimate one in our eyes) and demand immediate solutions. that's not how the game works. it could take 1-2 years for them to slowly revitalize how classes, kits, and mechanics work. and it could be better for the game and for us overall.
we don't know....BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW.
So you're suggesting people should just deal with a broken defender for years when Kabam could simply just flip a few switches and use the rebalancing program like it was meant to be used? Or maybe the rebalancing program is only there to prevent another Herc on attack since less revs means less people spending money, while a Herc on defense is good for them since it means more people will be spending resources to beat him wherever he goes with busted nodes like the one from the previous GC meta.
he's broken right now....but maybe that's entirely the point. serp is creating design space for creating brand new abilities. is that bad?
I’m willing to bet it will be. Because there is so much in this kit that whatever that design space creates will likely be even more broken and bad for things than he is
not gonna lie, i like it when kabam doesn't listen to us and just stick to their goals. they're not always right but most of the time they are and if history is any indication, the outrage is temporary and the game moves on.
it's been said that kabam intends on stretching this game out another 10 years and judging by how cautious they're being with some things like rank up materials and last year's banquet, you can tell that they're serious.
i hate fighting serp and bullseye (that's right, i'm a scrub!) in BGs and serpent is currently a terrible design but we have no idea what's in the works at kabam with character, kit, and class development. maybe we should give it a chance before busting out our phony baloney threats.
Maybe if DLL hadn't said that there will be no such thing as hard counters that completely shut off defenders, people wouldn't be as worried as they are.
Also no idea why you want Kabam to ignore everything the playerbase says, you're literally the one playing the game just like the rest of us. You're encouraging something that's unhealthy for the most part and has been killing a lot of the fun for most of us lately for absolutely no reason really.
the thing is...we're totally clueless about what's going on at kabam.
all we see is a problem (a legitimate one in our eyes) and demand immediate solutions. that's not how the game works. it could take 1-2 years for them to slowly revitalize how classes, kits, and mechanics work. and it could be better for the game and for us overall.
we don't know....BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW.
So you're suggesting people should just deal with a broken defender for years when Kabam could simply just flip a few switches and use the rebalancing program like it was meant to be used? Or maybe the rebalancing program is only there to prevent another Herc on attack since less revs means less people spending money, while a Herc on defense is good for them since it means more people will be spending resources to beat him wherever he goes with busted nodes like the one from the previous GC meta.
he's broken right now....but maybe that's entirely the point. serp is creating design space for creating brand new abilities. is that bad?
The problem with making such a complex kit with over 20 defensive abilities and needing a way to counter it all is it makes the game so linear. When you create a defender where champ A or champ B are really the only options to counter them, it takes away from player agency and being able to use the champs they want to use. You can use almost anyone to counter Korg, Killmonger, and even Enchantress. But when you create a kit like Serpent’s and you need someone who can manage power, health, immortality, mitigate chip damage, and be able to deal a large amount of damage to remain competitive in BG and war, then you create an issue where you have to use very specific champs. And what happens if one of those 2 or few counters isn’t one you enjoy playing? Then it’s just annoying.
I’m not too hung up on the class relationship side of things outside of the fact that he counters every current mystic ability except atrophy that could stop him, the rarest ability in the class and also one that is currently underpowered to actually be significant and found in kits that don’t really work well on attack…
So basically we need an atrophy attacker that deals high damage and has such a high powered version of atrophy that every buff on a timer becomes irrelevant. Sounds like a really healthy option for the game.
Shathra has atrophy and really solid damage HOWEVER if the damage is burst then she will absolutely suck against him, if it's dot we might have the best counter so far joining the game soon which could alleviate some of these issues but is still unhealthy on the long run imo. We'll see once that deep dive is out, praying it is dot since the red numbers were popping up way too fast to be burst damage but I could be wrong of course.
One could almost believe that her damage was made to be burst so she couldn’t directly counter him at this point.
I wouldn't be surprised if it's burst and in fact I am expecting it to be burst, dot is way too good to be true lmao.
If it’s dot I’m buying her featureds. She looks good as is tbh but I really want her to be good for serpent
If it's dot I will get the pre-release bundle as well. Someone pointed out it looks a lot like Prowler's bursts and if that is the case then bummer cause she will suck for Serpent but if Kabam is generous for the first time this year and her damage is dot indeed then yeah, I'm gonna get that pre release and she goes straight to r6 sig 200. The atrophy and the power steal already address the main pain points all she needs is to be able to play around that dread and she could be the best.
Now that I think about it, this might've been the plan all along. Leave him as is and force people to spend a **** ton of money to get 7* Shathra... Smart, evil sure but smart.
I guess we’ll see in the deep dive tomorrow. I want to hope but also have no hope because the serpent news was just…why
I hope she’s good in general matchups if she doesn’t end up being a serpent counter at least
I will be up at exactly 9am tomorrow with a big bowl of ramen just for that and wait til it's out. Tomorrow is the last chance they have to somewhat make up for that bs balance update. They won't redeem themselves completely by any means, but I can live with it for a while if Shathra is as good as I think she could be if the damage isn't burst.
More than Shathra being good for him, they should come here next week, apologize for the worst decision they’ve ever made and say they’ll tune him down lmao
not gonna lie, i like it when kabam doesn't listen to us and just stick to their goals. they're not always right but most of the time they are and if history is any indication, the outrage is temporary and the game moves on.
it's been said that kabam intends on stretching this game out another 10 years and judging by how cautious they're being with some things like rank up materials and last year's banquet, you can tell that they're serious.
i hate fighting serp and bullseye (that's right, i'm a scrub!) in BGs and serpent is currently a terrible design but we have no idea what's in the works at kabam with character, kit, and class development. maybe we should give it a chance before busting out our phony baloney threats.
Maybe if DLL hadn't said that there will be no such thing as hard counters that completely shut off defenders, people wouldn't be as worried as they are.
Also no idea why you want Kabam to ignore everything the playerbase says, you're literally the one playing the game just like the rest of us. You're encouraging something that's unhealthy for the most part and has been killing a lot of the fun for most of us lately for absolutely no reason really.
the thing is...we're totally clueless about what's going on at kabam.
all we see is a problem (a legitimate one in our eyes) and demand immediate solutions. that's not how the game works. it could take 1-2 years for them to slowly revitalize how classes, kits, and mechanics work. and it could be better for the game and for us overall.
we don't know....BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW.
So you're suggesting people should just deal with a broken defender for years when Kabam could simply just flip a few switches and use the rebalancing program like it was meant to be used? Or maybe the rebalancing program is only there to prevent another Herc on attack since less revs means less people spending money, while a Herc on defense is good for them since it means more people will be spending resources to beat him wherever he goes with busted nodes like the one from the previous GC meta.
he's broken right now....but maybe that's entirely the point. serp is creating design space for creating brand new abilities. is that bad?
Kinda? Serpent just has too much going on, including way too many carveouts that prevent basically every existing avenue of countering him from working. It’s hard not to feel like if they do want to eventually make a champ with new tech to handle Serpent it’ll feel arbitrary and forced, like how Destroyer “destroys” indestructible buffs bc Hulkling punishes nullify even though destroy is pretty much equivalent to nullify in all but name.
@jcphillips7 I would be lying if I said I wasn't a little bit concerned about Nefaria's damage but he does look extremely fun with that counter evade mechanic so we'll see lol he might be the champ I end up whaling out for purely for the gameplay.
I’m not too hung up on the class relationship side of things outside of the fact that he counters every current mystic ability except atrophy that could stop him, the rarest ability in the class and also one that is currently underpowered to actually be significant and found in kits that don’t really work well on attack…
So basically we need an atrophy attacker that deals high damage and has such a high powered version of atrophy that every buff on a timer becomes irrelevant. Sounds like a really healthy option for the game.
Shathra has atrophy and really solid damage HOWEVER if the damage is burst then she will absolutely suck against him, if it's dot we might have the best counter so far joining the game soon which could alleviate some of these issues but is still unhealthy on the long run imo. We'll see once that deep dive is out, praying it is dot since the red numbers were popping up way too fast to be burst damage but I could be wrong of course.
One could almost believe that her damage was made to be burst so she couldn’t directly counter him at this point.
I wouldn't be surprised if it's burst and in fact I am expecting it to be burst, dot is way too good to be true lmao.
If it’s dot I’m buying her featureds. She looks good as is tbh but I really want her to be good for serpent
If it's dot I will get the pre-release bundle as well. Someone pointed out it looks a lot like Prowler's bursts and if that is the case then bummer cause she will suck for Serpent but if Kabam is generous for the first time this year and her damage is dot indeed then yeah, I'm gonna get that pre release and she goes straight to r6 sig 200. The atrophy and the power steal already address the main pain points all she needs is to be able to play around that dread and she could be the best.
Now that I think about it, this might've been the plan all along. Leave him as is and force people to spend a **** ton of money to get 7* Shathra... Smart, evil sure but smart.
I guess we’ll see in the deep dive tomorrow. I want to hope but also have no hope because the serpent news was just…why
I hope she’s good in general matchups if she doesn’t end up being a serpent counter at least
I will be up at exactly 9am tomorrow with a big bowl of ramen just for that and wait til it's out. Tomorrow is the last chance they have to somewhat make up for that bs balance update. They won't redeem themselves completely by any means, but I can live with it for a while if Shathra is as good as I think she could be if the damage isn't burst.
More than Shathra being good for him, they should come here next week, apologize for the worst decision they’ve ever made and say they’ll tune him down lmao
But yeah we’ll see tomorrow
We will. I also hope the sig ability is good as well.
@jcphillips7 I would be lying if I said I wasn't a little bit concerned about Nefaria's damage but he does look extremely fun with that counter evade mechanic so we'll see lol he might be the champ I end up whaling out for purely for the gameplay.
He looked like he had some big numbers in the preview (like 40k mediums and 66k per hit on sp2) but I’m wondering how practical it’ll be
@jcphillips7 I would be lying if I said I wasn't a little bit concerned about Nefaria's damage but he does look extremely fun with that counter evade mechanic so we'll see lol he might be the champ I end up whaling out for purely for the gameplay.
He looked like he had some big numbers in the preview (like 40k mediums and 66k per hit on sp2) but I’m wondering how practical it’ll be
I think it was mainly the ramp that had me worried but we'll see, the damage was definitely good yeah.
@jcphillips7 I would be lying if I said I wasn't a little bit concerned about Nefaria's damage but he does look extremely fun with that counter evade mechanic so we'll see lol he might be the champ I end up whaling out for purely for the gameplay.
He looked like he had some big numbers in the preview (like 40k mediums and 66k per hit on sp2) but I’m wondering how practical it’ll be
It looks pretty fast to me, they did say he’ll do well in short and longer fights
not gonna lie, i like it when kabam doesn't listen to us and just stick to their goals. they're not always right but most of the time they are and if history is any indication, the outrage is temporary and the game moves on.
it's been said that kabam intends on stretching this game out another 10 years and judging by how cautious they're being with some things like rank up materials and last year's banquet, you can tell that they're serious.
i hate fighting serp and bullseye (that's right, i'm a scrub!) in BGs and serpent is currently a terrible design but we have no idea what's in the works at kabam with character, kit, and class development. maybe we should give it a chance before busting out our phony baloney threats.
Maybe if DLL hadn't said that there will be no such thing as hard counters that completely shut off defenders, people wouldn't be as worried as they are.
Also no idea why you want Kabam to ignore everything the playerbase says, you're literally the one playing the game just like the rest of us. You're encouraging something that's unhealthy for the most part and has been killing a lot of the fun for most of us lately for absolutely no reason really.
the thing is...we're totally clueless about what's going on at kabam.
all we see is a problem (a legitimate one in our eyes) and demand immediate solutions. that's not how the game works. it could take 1-2 years for them to slowly revitalize how classes, kits, and mechanics work. and it could be better for the game and for us overall.
we don't know....BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW.
So you're suggesting people should just deal with a broken defender for years when Kabam could simply just flip a few switches and use the rebalancing program like it was meant to be used? Or maybe the rebalancing program is only there to prevent another Herc on attack since less revs means less people spending money, while a Herc on defense is good for them since it means more people will be spending resources to beat him wherever he goes with busted nodes like the one from the previous GC meta.
he's broken right now....but maybe that's entirely the point. serp is creating design space for creating brand new abilities. is that bad?
I’ve seen a lot of people use these 2 arguments.
1: “It’s ok that serpent is op because he was designed to be op.” First off, I’d like to be shown where it was said that he’s designed to be op. He’s designed to be a 5/5 defender, that doesn’t mean he has to be overtuned. Maestro and Onslaught are 5/5s, but serpent makes them look like 3s. All three champs have the same defender rating, but one of them is clearly above the other two. Why are we raising the standard for 5/5 because one champ went too far? Why not balance the champ correctly and maintain the old standard of 5/5?
2: “He’s allowing more avenues for Kabam to introduce new mechanics and abilities.” That’s fair, but why does serpent have to be overtuned to accomplish? Would he not do the same if he was balanced? They don’t have to restrict almost every mystic ability to make room for a new one like atrophy. They can allow all or most of them to work, but then allow atrophy to be his “weakness” and not simply the only thing that works. You’re still incentivized to use the new mechanic, but you’re not rejected for using an old one.
Every benefit that serpent brings to the game can be accomplished with him at a healthy level, which also avoids all the issues that come with him being overtuned.
@jcphillips7 I would be lying if I said I wasn't a little bit concerned about Nefaria's damage but he does look extremely fun with that counter evade mechanic so we'll see lol he might be the champ I end up whaling out for purely for the gameplay.
He looked like he had some big numbers in the preview (like 40k mediums and 66k per hit on sp2) but I’m wondering how practical it’ll be
I think it was mainly the ramp that had me worried but we'll see, the damage was definitely good yeah.
Ah some people have been saying he’s supposed to be good for short fights so here’s hoping. It’d be funny if he was another busted science
@jcphillips7 I would be lying if I said I wasn't a little bit concerned about Nefaria's damage but he does look extremely fun with that counter evade mechanic so we'll see lol he might be the champ I end up whaling out for purely for the gameplay.
He looked like he had some big numbers in the preview (like 40k mediums and 66k per hit on sp2) but I’m wondering how practical it’ll be
I think it was mainly the ramp that had me worried but we'll see, the damage was definitely good yeah.
Oh, you're not lying. Even with the slight ramp, those sp2 numbers with his Furies active had me like "well that's getting tuned down and bro's not even out yet." But, I could be very wrong. It seems to be a similar rotation to what Guardian has with the sp1->sp2 for a nice chunky payoff, so maybe it's intended. Either way, curious to see both the deep dives myself.
@jcphillips7 I would be lying if I said I wasn't a little bit concerned about Nefaria's damage but he does look extremely fun with that counter evade mechanic so we'll see lol he might be the champ I end up whaling out for purely for the gameplay.
He looked like he had some big numbers in the preview (like 40k mediums and 66k per hit on sp2) but I’m wondering how practical it’ll be
It looks pretty fast to me, they did say he’ll do well in short and longer fights
Problem is they showcased big HPs so it's hard to tell, also the special punish with counter evade won't work on every defender so we'll have to see how good the damage is when he can't punish special with counter evade.
@jcphillips7 I would be lying if I said I wasn't a little bit concerned about Nefaria's damage but he does look extremely fun with that counter evade mechanic so we'll see lol he might be the champ I end up whaling out for purely for the gameplay.
He looked like he had some big numbers in the preview (like 40k mediums and 66k per hit on sp2) but I’m wondering how practical it’ll be
It looks pretty fast to me, they did say he’ll do well in short and longer fights
Problem is they showcased big HPs so it's hard to tell, also the sp1 punish with counter evade won't work on every defender so we'll have to see how good the damage is when he can't punish special with counter evade.
Also they are saying he’s gonna be good for Serpent, well Serpent has true focus so Nefaria can’t even trigger his evade against him (unless maybe, only skill champs can stop it).
@jcphillips7 I would be lying if I said I wasn't a little bit concerned about Nefaria's damage but he does look extremely fun with that counter evade mechanic so we'll see lol he might be the champ I end up whaling out for purely for the gameplay.
He looked like he had some big numbers in the preview (like 40k mediums and 66k per hit on sp2) but I’m wondering how practical it’ll be
It looks pretty fast to me, they did say he’ll do well in short and longer fights
Problem is they showcased big HPs so it's hard to tell, also the special punish with counter evade won't work on every defender so we'll have to see how good the damage is when he can't punish special with counter evade.
I thought he could work for Serp decently and then remembered that he counters evade. What a fun champ, I love serpent
I love how when I’m like “oh what if this works” he just has some other thing that’s like nah this won’t work
@jcphillips7 I would be lying if I said I wasn't a little bit concerned about Nefaria's damage but he does look extremely fun with that counter evade mechanic so we'll see lol he might be the champ I end up whaling out for purely for the gameplay.
He looked like he had some big numbers in the preview (like 40k mediums and 66k per hit on sp2) but I’m wondering how practical it’ll be
It looks pretty fast to me, they did say he’ll do well in short and longer fights
Problem is they showcased big HPs so it's hard to tell, also the special punish with counter evade won't work on every defender so we'll have to see how good the damage is when he can't punish special with counter evade.
I thought he could work for Serp decently and then remembered that he counters evade. What a fun champ, I love serpent
I love how when I’m like “oh what if this works” he just has some other thing that’s like nah this won’t work
Summoner: "Can I just die please?" Serpent: "No! You must first be subjected to humiliation as you watch me pummel your spirit and your body.
@jcphillips7 I would be lying if I said I wasn't a little bit concerned about Nefaria's damage but he does look extremely fun with that counter evade mechanic so we'll see lol he might be the champ I end up whaling out for purely for the gameplay.
He looked like he had some big numbers in the preview (like 40k mediums and 66k per hit on sp2) but I’m wondering how practical it’ll be
It looks pretty fast to me, they did say he’ll do well in short and longer fights
Problem is they showcased big HPs so it's hard to tell, also the special punish with counter evade won't work on every defender so we'll have to see how good the damage is when he can't punish special with counter evade.
I thought he could work for Serp decently and then remembered that he counters evade. What a fun champ, I love serpent
I love how when I’m like “oh what if this works” he just has some other thing that’s like nah this won’t work
Lmao yeah your brain goes "shiiii this champ might, oh wait nvm ability 9/30"
@jcphillips7 I would be lying if I said I wasn't a little bit concerned about Nefaria's damage but he does look extremely fun with that counter evade mechanic so we'll see lol he might be the champ I end up whaling out for purely for the gameplay.
He looked like he had some big numbers in the preview (like 40k mediums and 66k per hit on sp2) but I’m wondering how practical it’ll be
It looks pretty fast to me, they did say he’ll do well in short and longer fights
Problem is they showcased big HPs so it's hard to tell, also the special punish with counter evade won't work on every defender so we'll have to see how good the damage is when he can't punish special with counter evade.
I thought he could work for Serp decently and then remembered that he counters evade. What a fun champ, I love serpent
I love how when I’m like “oh what if this works” he just has some other thing that’s like nah this won’t work
Summoner: "Can I just die please?" Serpent: "No! You must first be subjected to humiliation as you watch me pummel your spirit andyour body.
It's funny that he does that on his SP3, literally.
Wow! Serpent is perfectly fine but then you go and "fix" a three and a half year issue with KP. If I remember correctly herc could tank lvl 3s when he first came out and that got changed really quick but now Serpent can tank lvl 3 and that's perfectly fine??? Am I missing something?
@jcphillips7 I would be lying if I said I wasn't a little bit concerned about Nefaria's damage but he does look extremely fun with that counter evade mechanic so we'll see lol he might be the champ I end up whaling out for purely for the gameplay.
He looked like he had some big numbers in the preview (like 40k mediums and 66k per hit on sp2) but I’m wondering how practical it’ll be
It looks pretty fast to me, they did say he’ll do well in short and longer fights
Problem is they showcased big HPs so it's hard to tell, also the special punish with counter evade won't work on every defender so we'll have to see how good the damage is when he can't punish special with counter evade.
I thought he could work for Serp decently and then remembered that he counters evade. What a fun champ, I love serpent
I love how when I’m like “oh what if this works” he just has some other thing that’s like nah this won’t work
Lmao yeah your brain goes "shiiii this champ might, oh wait nvm ability 9/30"
I’m so tired of Serpent’s ass especially with these metas buffing him up. I danced around forever when fighting serpent in VT earlier until the node kicked in and took him to an sp3. Happened 3 times in a row too so much fun
not gonna lie, i like it when kabam doesn't listen to us and just stick to their goals. they're not always right but most of the time they are and if history is any indication, the outrage is temporary and the game moves on.
it's been said that kabam intends on stretching this game out another 10 years and judging by how cautious they're being with some things like rank up materials and last year's banquet, you can tell that they're serious.
i hate fighting serp and bullseye (that's right, i'm a scrub!) in BGs and serpent is currently a terrible design but we have no idea what's in the works at kabam with character, kit, and class development. maybe we should give it a chance before busting out our phony baloney threats.
Maybe if DLL hadn't said that there will be no such thing as hard counters that completely shut off defenders, people wouldn't be as worried as they are.
Also no idea why you want Kabam to ignore everything the playerbase says, you're literally the one playing the game just like the rest of us. You're encouraging something that's unhealthy for the most part and has been killing a lot of the fun for most of us lately for absolutely no reason really.
the thing is...we're totally clueless about what's going on at kabam.
all we see is a problem (a legitimate one in our eyes) and demand immediate solutions. that's not how the game works. it could take 1-2 years for them to slowly revitalize how classes, kits, and mechanics work. and it could be better for the game and for us overall.
we don't know....BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW.
So you're suggesting people should just deal with a broken defender for years when Kabam could simply just flip a few switches and use the rebalancing program like it was meant to be used? Or maybe the rebalancing program is only there to prevent another Herc on attack since less revs means less people spending money, while a Herc on defense is good for them since it means more people will be spending resources to beat him wherever he goes with busted nodes like the one from the previous GC meta.
he's broken right now....but maybe that's entirely the point. serp is creating design space for creating brand new abilities. is that bad?
I think this is what we all should try to wrap our heads around. Closing in on ten years and 300 champs, they are running out of design space and creative opportunities for interaction. Looking back on 2023, it’s really stunning how many quality champs they released. In 2024, you’ve got Bulls and Serpent as high-impact champs. Dust and Prowler are solid. Lots of the others appear irrelevant right now. Could be because the designers are phoning it in, but I think it’s more likely that it’s becoming harder and harder to work within the existing rules. (Or maybe “norms” is a better word.)
I suspect they need to break the game in multiple ways to create some runway. Serpent is one part of that story, but I actually think Enchantress may be more of a watershed champion in the long run. The new dimensions of choice and control seem very promising, maybe not as specifically executed in her kit, but the general concept of expanded capabilities is probably what they need to keep things fresh.
not gonna lie, i like it when kabam doesn't listen to us and just stick to their goals. they're not always right but most of the time they are and if history is any indication, the outrage is temporary and the game moves on.
it's been said that kabam intends on stretching this game out another 10 years and judging by how cautious they're being with some things like rank up materials and last year's banquet, you can tell that they're serious.
i hate fighting serp and bullseye (that's right, i'm a scrub!) in BGs and serpent is currently a terrible design but we have no idea what's in the works at kabam with character, kit, and class development. maybe we should give it a chance before busting out our phony baloney threats.
Maybe if DLL hadn't said that there will be no such thing as hard counters that completely shut off defenders, people wouldn't be as worried as they are.
Also no idea why you want Kabam to ignore everything the playerbase says, you're literally the one playing the game just like the rest of us. You're encouraging something that's unhealthy for the most part and has been killing a lot of the fun for most of us lately for absolutely no reason really.
the thing is...we're totally clueless about what's going on at kabam.
all we see is a problem (a legitimate one in our eyes) and demand immediate solutions. that's not how the game works. it could take 1-2 years for them to slowly revitalize how classes, kits, and mechanics work. and it could be better for the game and for us overall.
we don't know....BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW.
So you're suggesting people should just deal with a broken defender for years when Kabam could simply just flip a few switches and use the rebalancing program like it was meant to be used? Or maybe the rebalancing program is only there to prevent another Herc on attack since less revs means less people spending money, while a Herc on defense is good for them since it means more people will be spending resources to beat him wherever he goes with busted nodes like the one from the previous GC meta.
he's broken right now....but maybe that's entirely the point. serp is creating design space for creating brand new abilities. is that bad?
I think this is what we all should try to wrap our heads around. Closing in on ten years and 300 champs, they are running out of design space and creative opportunities for interaction. Looking back on 2023, it’s really stunning how many quality champs they released. In 2024, you’ve got Bulls and Serpent as high-impact champs. Dust and Prowler are solid. Lots of the others appear irrelevant right now. Could be because the designers are phoning it in, but I think it’s more likely that it’s becoming harder and harder to work within the existing rules. (Or maybe “norms” is a better word.)
I suspect they need to break the game in multiple ways to create some runway. Serpent is one part of that story, but I actually think Enchantress may be more of a watershed champion in the long run. The new dimensions of choice and control seem very promising, maybe not as specifically executed in her kit, but the general concept of expanded capabilities is probably what they need to keep things fresh.
Copy pasted from my above post.
2: “He’s allowing more avenues for Kabam to introduce new mechanics and abilities.” That’s fair, but why does serpent have to be overtuned to accomplish? Would he not do the same if he was balanced? They don’t have to restrict almost every mystic ability to make room for a new one like atrophy. They can allow all or most of them to work, but then allow atrophy to be his “weakness” and not simply the only thing that works. You’re still incentivized to use the new mechanic, but you’re not rejected for using an old one
Fair enough. It’s just a matter of degree. How disruptive does he need to be in order to shake up the game and evolve it sufficiently to enable more growth? We think he could be tuned down to 80% of his current potency, maybe they think he’s right where he needs to be. Impossible to know, given the current communication. I don’t know why they don’t talk about these things openly. I don’t see much downside for them to shedding some light on the macro design considerations taking place.
Fair enough. It’s just a matter of degree. How disruptive does he need to be in order to shake up the game and evolve it sufficiently to enable more growth? We think he could be tuned down to 80% of his current potency, maybe they think he’s right where he needs to be. Impossible to know, given the current communication. I don’t know why they don’t talk about these things openly. I don’t see much downside for them to shedding some light on the macro design considerations taking place.
I don’t think it’s 100% fair to say that we don’t know, as we do have some information just by playing the game. Of course we don’t have the full picture, but it’s not like we have nothing whatsoever.
100% agree about communication though. Some transparency would help out.
Comments
I hope she’s good in general matchups if she doesn’t end up being a serpent counter at least
Them making hard counters is not healthy for the game on the long run no matter how you look at it, especially in BGs where draft is already RNG reliant.
But yeah we’ll see tomorrow
1: “It’s ok that serpent is op because he was designed to be op.” First off, I’d like to be shown where it was said that he’s designed to be op. He’s designed to be a 5/5 defender, that doesn’t mean he has to be overtuned. Maestro and Onslaught are 5/5s, but serpent makes them look like 3s. All three champs have the same defender rating, but one of them is clearly above the other two. Why are we raising the standard for 5/5 because one champ went too far? Why not balance the champ correctly and maintain the old standard of 5/5?
2: “He’s allowing more avenues for Kabam to introduce new mechanics and abilities.” That’s fair, but why does serpent have to be overtuned to accomplish? Would he not do the same if he was balanced? They don’t have to restrict almost every mystic ability to make room for a new one like atrophy. They can allow all or most of them to work, but then allow atrophy to be his “weakness” and not simply the only thing that works. You’re still incentivized to use the new mechanic, but you’re not rejected for using an old one.
Every benefit that serpent brings to the game can be accomplished with him at a healthy level, which also avoids all the issues that come with him being overtuned.
I love how when I’m like “oh what if this works” he just has some other thing that’s like nah this won’t work
Serpent: "No! You must first be subjected to humiliation as you watch me pummel your spirit and your body.
I suspect they need to break the game in multiple ways to create some runway. Serpent is one part of that story, but I actually think Enchantress may be more of a watershed champion in the long run. The new dimensions of choice and control seem very promising, maybe not as specifically executed in her kit, but the general concept of expanded capabilities is probably what they need to keep things fresh.
2: “He’s allowing more avenues for Kabam to introduce new mechanics and abilities.” That’s fair, but why does serpent have to be overtuned to accomplish? Would he not do the same if he was balanced? They don’t have to restrict almost every mystic ability to make room for a new one like atrophy. They can allow all or most of them to work, but then allow atrophy to be his “weakness” and not simply the only thing that works. You’re still incentivized to use the new mechanic, but you’re not rejected for using an old one
100% agree about communication though. Some transparency would help out.