Shouldn’t be surprised that Shathra isn’t a counter to Serpent. With the trend of champs we’ve been seeing this year, we probably won’t see a decent counter until mid 2025. Until then, have fun.
Honestly, I don’t think anyone is complaining that the kit is too difficult to fight. I seriously don’t — this isn’t a “Git Gud” situation where the problem is ultimately a skill issue and people not really reading/understanding the kits.
This is a case where people are stating — accurately, in my opinion — that specific elements of this kit are unfair to play and violate the spirit, established rules and mechanics of the game, which is totally different.
For example: I am not saying “Holy smokes! Death Immunity with Regen and Power Gain is too hard! Boo hoo hoo!”
What I am saying is what is the explanation for how it is fair for the kit design for this iteration of the Death Immunity mechanic to be specifically immune to Nullify AND Stagger, with a 125 percent threshold for Neutralize, with an overall immunity to Fate Seal, as a Cosmic character?
What I just typed isn’t a “Git Gud”/Skill issue. That is literally a carve out from established game rules which are the problem in making this kit OP.
Nobody’s complaining that Overseer, as a Science character, is immune to Stagger, Nullify and Fate Seal. Right? It’s a Science character and those are Mystic traits. Nobody’s complaining about that.
It is nothing short of a “cheat” for this kind of carve out on the established Class Wheel traits, for a Cosmic character to have that many specific immunities to protect an absolutely busted mechanic — Serpent has FOUR CARVEOUTS to protect that busted mechanic, which is the problem with that kit.
It is unbelievable that isn’t being addressed — it never should have had all four!
Shouldn’t be surprised that Shathra isn’t a counter to Serpent. With the trend of champs we’ve been seeing this year, we probably won’t see a decent counter until mid 2025. Until then, have fun.
Based on how Shathra was putting in work on Maestro as a hard counter (roughly 10 months or so after his initial release into the game), there could potentially be a hard counter for Serpent by Jan or Feb (10 or so months from HIS release). Who knows, possibly even Deathless Thanos.
I'm not surprised lol I've been saying it for days now, not going to happen according to DLL himself.
You guys need to decide if you're mad about a new champ being a counter to a hard champ or a new champ not being a counter to a hard champ
Where did I say I want either of those lmao I don't want hard counters cause that's not healthy on the long run, I want a nerf like everyone else on this thread.
I'm not surprised lol I've been saying it for days now, not going to happen according to DLL himself.
You guys need to decide if you're mad about a new champ being a counter to a hard champ or a new champ not being a counter to a hard champ
Where did I say I want either of those lmao I don't want hard counters cause that's not healthy on the long run, I want a nerf like everyone else on this thread.
Exactly — a mechanic as busted as this version of Death Immunity isn’t something players should be praying they pull from a crystal to address. It should be addressed at the game level.
There’s no way anyone can tell me that Serpent is ruined if Stagger OR Nullify had a fixed percentage to Proc on Death Immunty that was fair, or Fate Seal had a fixed percentage to Proc on Special Activation by the Attacker.
See? I am not whining for everything that is difficult about the kit to be removed.
Death Immunity is simply busted as it is and needs to be addressed at the game level with established game mechanics and class traits able to be used
Serpent shouldn't be countering the mystic class. Class relationships and masteries should not be messed with. His kit is so rigged that everyone has forgotten his special attacks being undexable from the start 😂
Serpent shouldn't be countering the mystic class. Class relationships and masteries should not be messed with. His kit is so rigged that everyone has forgotten his special attacks being undexable from the start 😂
Serpent shouldn't be countering the mystic class. Class relationships and masteries should not be messed with. His kit is so rigged that everyone has forgotten his special attacks being undexable from the start 😂
So do you want them to change Magneto too?
Magneto doesn't shut down the entire tech class just the metal ones that aren't immune to aar which a bunch of them are. Serpent is immune to anything the mystic class throws at him, even neutralize is like flipping a coin, nice try though.
Serpent shouldn't be countering the mystic class. Class relationships and masteries should not be messed with. His kit is so rigged that everyone has forgotten his special attacks being undexable from the start 😂
So do you want them to change Magneto too?
Magneto was and should be the only exception given the nature of his powers. Serpent has ABSOLUTELY no reasonable explanation of him being able bypass the ENTIRE MYSTIC CLASS. This all started with mystic defenders slowly becoming nullify immune, then it went on to fateseal then stagger we let it slide because alot of people on here were defending kabam and explaining how cosmic defenders need It or else any mystic would be able to take them out easily. It wasn't that big of a deal because tigra started gaining popularity for her neutralize which was our escape from big cosmic mystic countering threats. We let it slide but now SERPENT is able to BYPASS EVERY MYSTIC ABILITY and kabam has now introduced a science champion who has UNCLEANSABLE debuffs, this could only be the beginning of more skill countering science champions. If the community does not start stating their disapproval on these things, it will only continue just like the photon undexable specials which we let slide because she was a well rounded champion and 2023 champions were mostly HITS and now we have serpent. Photon started the willpower mastery tampering, now we had onslaught as if his special attacks weren't hard enough to dex and the UNAVOIDABLE neuroshock damage you took by making one mistake weren't enough, he also punishes you for PARRYING(which is a mastery itself and a skill we all learnt) which now shuts of willpower as well in the process). We then had bullseye who also punished you for DEXING with the instant bleeds(thank GOD it got removed), then dust who shuts off WILLPOWER AS WELL and now serpent. This has got to stop please...
Serpent shouldn't be countering the mystic class. Class relationships and masteries should not be messed with. His kit is so rigged that everyone has forgotten his special attacks being undexable from the start 😂
So do you want them to change Magneto too?
Magneto was and should be the only exception given the nature of his powers. Serpent has ABSOLUTELY no reasonable explanation of him being able bypass the ENTIRE MYSTIC CLASS. This all started with mystic defenders slowly becoming nullify immune, then it went on to fateseal then stagger we let it slide because alot of people on here were defending kabam and explaining how cosmic defenders need It or else any mystic would be able to take them out easily. It wasn't that big of a deal because tigra started gaining popularity for her neutralize which was our escape from big cosmic mystic countering threats. We let it slide but now SERPENT is able to BYPASS EVERY MYSTIC ABILITY and kabam has now introduced a science champion who has UNCLEANSABLE debuffs, this could only be the beginning of more skill countering science champions. If the community does not start stating their disapproval on these things, it will only continue just like the photon undexable specials which we let slide because she was a well rounded champion and 2023 champions were mostly HITS and now we have serpent. Photon started the willpower mastery tampering, now we had onslaught as if his special attacks weren't hard enough to dex and the UNAVOIDABLE neuroshock damage you took by making one mistake weren't enough, he also punishes you for PARRYING(which is a mastery itself and a skill we all learnt) which now shuts of willpower as well in the process). We then had bullseye who also punished you for DEXING with the instant bleeds(thank GOD it got removed), then dust who shuts off WILLPOWER AS WELL and now serpent. This has got to stop please...
So they shouldn't introduce any new challenges within Champion kits for the duration of the game? I think that's called Candy Crush.
Also leader did not get as much uproar from the community from his UNCLEANSABLE and UNPURIFIABLE debuffs because he is in general a weak champion (THANK GOD). If he was another 5/5 defender, I bet y'all would start calling kabam out for the class wheel bypassing bullshyt
Serpent shouldn't be countering the mystic class. Class relationships and masteries should not be messed with. His kit is so rigged that everyone has forgotten his special attacks being undexable from the start 😂
So do you want them to change Magneto too?
Magneto was and should be the only exception given the nature of his powers. Serpent has ABSOLUTELY no reasonable explanation of him being able bypass the ENTIRE MYSTIC CLASS. This all started with mystic defenders slowly becoming nullify immune, then it went on to fateseal then stagger we let it slide because alot of people on here were defending kabam and explaining how cosmic defenders need It or else any mystic would be able to take them out easily. It wasn't that big of a deal because tigra started gaining popularity for her neutralize which was our escape from big cosmic mystic countering threats. We let it slide but now SERPENT is able to BYPASS EVERY MYSTIC ABILITY and kabam has now introduced a science champion who has UNCLEANSABLE debuffs, this could only be the beginning of more skill countering science champions. If the community does not start stating their disapproval on these things, it will only continue just like the photon undexable specials which we let slide because she was a well rounded champion and 2023 champions were mostly HITS and now we have serpent. Photon started the willpower mastery tampering, now we had onslaught as if his special attacks weren't hard enough to dex and the UNAVOIDABLE neuroshock damage you took by making one mistake weren't enough, he also punishes you for PARRYING(which is a mastery itself and a skill we all learnt) which now shuts of willpower as well in the process). We then had bullseye who also punished you for DEXING with the instant bleeds(thank GOD it got removed), then dust who shuts off WILLPOWER AS WELL and now serpent. This has got to stop please...
So they shouldn't introduce any new challenges within Champion kits for the duration of the game? I think that's called Candy Crush.
105k DISAGREES?? DAMN, what do you be saying on here that be making people this mad 😭
Serpent shouldn't be countering the mystic class. Class relationships and masteries should not be messed with. His kit is so rigged that everyone has forgotten his special attacks being undexable from the start 😂
So do you want them to change Magneto too?
Magneto was and should be the only exception given the nature of his powers. Serpent has ABSOLUTELY no reasonable explanation of him being able bypass the ENTIRE MYSTIC CLASS. This all started with mystic defenders slowly becoming nullify immune, then it went on to fateseal then stagger we let it slide because alot of people on here were defending kabam and explaining how cosmic defenders need It or else any mystic would be able to take them out easily. It wasn't that big of a deal because tigra started gaining popularity for her neutralize which was our escape from big cosmic mystic countering threats. We let it slide but now SERPENT is able to BYPASS EVERY MYSTIC ABILITY and kabam has now introduced a science champion who has UNCLEANSABLE debuffs, this could only be the beginning of more skill countering science champions. If the community does not start stating their disapproval on these things, it will only continue just like the photon undexable specials which we let slide because she was a well rounded champion and 2023 champions were mostly HITS and now we have serpent. Photon started the willpower mastery tampering, now we had onslaught as if his special attacks weren't hard enough to dex and the UNAVOIDABLE neuroshock damage you took by making one mistake weren't enough, he also punishes you for PARRYING(which is a mastery itself and a skill we all learnt) which now shuts of willpower as well in the process). We then had bullseye who also punished you for DEXING with the instant bleeds(thank GOD it got removed), then dust who shuts off WILLPOWER AS WELL and now serpent. This has got to stop please...
Yep. All of this is just the truth.
I have noticed the increased tampering with Masteries. No one wants to be “That Guy” and constantly run to the Forums whining, but look where that has gotten us:
Unblockable Specials that can’t be Dexed, with a kit that takes the good of the Class Wheel (Cosmic class being increasingly resistant to Power Drain/Lock/Burn) while ignoring the weaknesses of the Class Wheel (Cosmic class typically having various degrees of vulnerability to Stagger/Nullify/Neutralize/Fate Seal)
Serpent shouldn't be countering the mystic class. Class relationships and masteries should not be messed with. His kit is so rigged that everyone has forgotten his special attacks being undexable from the start 😂
So do you want them to change Magneto too?
Magneto was and should be the only exception given the nature of his powers. Serpent has ABSOLUTELY no reasonable explanation of him being able bypass the ENTIRE MYSTIC CLASS. This all started with mystic defenders slowly becoming nullify immune, then it went on to fateseal then stagger we let it slide because alot of people on here were defending kabam and explaining how cosmic defenders need It or else any mystic would be able to take them out easily. It wasn't that big of a deal because tigra started gaining popularity for her neutralize which was our escape from big cosmic mystic countering threats. We let it slide but now SERPENT is able to BYPASS EVERY MYSTIC ABILITY and kabam has now introduced a science champion who has UNCLEANSABLE debuffs, this could only be the beginning of more skill countering science champions. If the community does not start stating their disapproval on these things, it will only continue just like the photon undexable specials which we let slide because she was a well rounded champion and 2023 champions were mostly HITS and now we have serpent. Photon started the willpower mastery tampering, now we had onslaught as if his special attacks weren't hard enough to dex and the UNAVOIDABLE neuroshock damage you took by making one mistake weren't enough, he also punishes you for PARRYING(which is a mastery itself and a skill we all learnt) which now shuts of willpower as well in the process). We then had bullseye who also punished you for DEXING with the instant bleeds(thank GOD it got removed), then dust who shuts off WILLPOWER AS WELL and now serpent. This has got to stop please...
So they shouldn't introduce any new challenges within Champion kits for the duration of the game? I think that's called Candy Crush.
See, it’s this kind of Straw Man that actually hurts legitimate, honest and fair criticism.
Nobody is talking about “the duration of the game.” We’re talking a specific kit with a specific set of mechanics.
He gave specific examples of what game design can turn into when various accepted rules of the game being played start being disregarded — anything can be coded into the game to make it challenging, but that doesn’t make it fair.
You mentioned Magneto, whose status as a character/kit that is effective against Metal is simply an outlier even in the lore — the character itself is one that Sentinels have never really had an answer for. It’s the CHARACTER, not the KIT.
In this case, the kit is specifically designed with multiple carveouts meant to disregard class traits. That is not even remotely the same
Serpent shouldn't be countering the mystic class. Class relationships and masteries should not be messed with. His kit is so rigged that everyone has forgotten his special attacks being undexable from the start 😂
So do you want them to change Magneto too?
Magneto was and should be the only exception given the nature of his powers. Serpent has ABSOLUTELY no reasonable explanation of him being able bypass the ENTIRE MYSTIC CLASS. This all started with mystic defenders slowly becoming nullify immune, then it went on to fateseal then stagger we let it slide because alot of people on here were defending kabam and explaining how cosmic defenders need It or else any mystic would be able to take them out easily. It wasn't that big of a deal because tigra started gaining popularity for her neutralize which was our escape from big cosmic mystic countering threats. We let it slide but now SERPENT is able to BYPASS EVERY MYSTIC ABILITY and kabam has now introduced a science champion who has UNCLEANSABLE debuffs, this could only be the beginning of more skill countering science champions. If the community does not start stating their disapproval on these things, it will only continue just like the photon undexable specials which we let slide because she was a well rounded champion and 2023 champions were mostly HITS and now we have serpent. Photon started the willpower mastery tampering, now we had onslaught as if his special attacks weren't hard enough to dex and the UNAVOIDABLE neuroshock damage you took by making one mistake weren't enough, he also punishes you for PARRYING(which is a mastery itself and a skill we all learnt) which now shuts of willpower as well in the process). We then had bullseye who also punished you for DEXING with the instant bleeds(thank GOD it got removed), then dust who shuts off WILLPOWER AS WELL and now serpent. This has got to stop please...
So they shouldn't introduce any new challenges within Champion kits for the duration of the game? I think that's called Candy Crush.
There's a difference between a challenge (Bullseye, Photon, Kindred, Dust) and this bs (Serpent). You've got then mixed up because again you've never played high level BGs in your life.
Serpent shouldn't be countering the mystic class. Class relationships and masteries should not be messed with. His kit is so rigged that everyone has forgotten his special attacks being undexable from the start 😂
So do you want them to change Magneto too?
Magneto was and should be the only exception given the nature of his powers. Serpent has ABSOLUTELY no reasonable explanation of him being able bypass the ENTIRE MYSTIC CLASS. This all started with mystic defenders slowly becoming nullify immune, then it went on to fateseal then stagger we let it slide because alot of people on here were defending kabam and explaining how cosmic defenders need It or else any mystic would be able to take them out easily. It wasn't that big of a deal because tigra started gaining popularity for her neutralize which was our escape from big cosmic mystic countering threats. We let it slide but now SERPENT is able to BYPASS EVERY MYSTIC ABILITY and kabam has now introduced a science champion who has UNCLEANSABLE debuffs, this could only be the beginning of more skill countering science champions. If the community does not start stating their disapproval on these things, it will only continue just like the photon undexable specials which we let slide because she was a well rounded champion and 2023 champions were mostly HITS and now we have serpent. Photon started the willpower mastery tampering, now we had onslaught as if his special attacks weren't hard enough to dex and the UNAVOIDABLE neuroshock damage you took by making one mistake weren't enough, he also punishes you for PARRYING(which is a mastery itself and a skill we all learnt) which now shuts of willpower as well in the process). We then had bullseye who also punished you for DEXING with the instant bleeds(thank GOD it got removed), then dust who shuts off WILLPOWER AS WELL and now serpent. This has got to stop please...
So they shouldn't introduce any new challenges within Champion kits for the duration of the game? I think that's called Candy Crush.
105k DISAGREES?? DAMN, what do you be saying on here that be making people this mad 😭
Saying Serpent is just a "challenge" is a perfect example of what he's saying on here that makes people that mad 😂
Crazy that even post livestream, this thread is still at the top and they've continued to remain silent lmao Kabam if that doesn't tell you anything then you need to hire a better person to do all the analytics cause something's not right here. You have ten pages full of rage in the most respectful way possible (12 if they hadn't removed all the other replies), doing and saying nothing just shows how much you truly care about the playerbase. If they thought today's announcements would be enough to drive all the attention away (not saying they did) then they obviously thought wrong lol.
Serpent shouldn't be countering the mystic class. Class relationships and masteries should not be messed with. His kit is so rigged that everyone has forgotten his special attacks being undexable from the start 😂
So do you want them to change Magneto too?
Magneto was and should be the only exception given the nature of his powers. Serpent has ABSOLUTELY no reasonable explanation of him being able bypass the ENTIRE MYSTIC CLASS. This all started with mystic defenders slowly becoming nullify immune, then it went on to fateseal then stagger we let it slide because alot of people on here were defending kabam and explaining how cosmic defenders need It or else any mystic would be able to take them out easily. It wasn't that big of a deal because tigra started gaining popularity for her neutralize which was our escape from big cosmic mystic countering threats. We let it slide but now SERPENT is able to BYPASS EVERY MYSTIC ABILITY and kabam has now introduced a science champion who has UNCLEANSABLE debuffs, this could only be the beginning of more skill countering science champions. If the community does not start stating their disapproval on these things, it will only continue just like the photon undexable specials which we let slide because she was a well rounded champion and 2023 champions were mostly HITS and now we have serpent. Photon started the willpower mastery tampering, now we had onslaught as if his special attacks weren't hard enough to dex and the UNAVOIDABLE neuroshock damage you took by making one mistake weren't enough, he also punishes you for PARRYING(which is a mastery itself and a skill we all learnt) which now shuts of willpower as well in the process). We then had bullseye who also punished you for DEXING with the instant bleeds(thank GOD it got removed), then dust who shuts off WILLPOWER AS WELL and now serpent. This has got to stop please...
They're comic book characters homie. EVERYTHING about them is made up out of thin air.
Serpent shouldn't be countering the mystic class. Class relationships and masteries should not be messed with. His kit is so rigged that everyone has forgotten his special attacks being undexable from the start 😂
So do you want them to change Magneto too?
Magneto was and should be the only exception given the nature of his powers. Serpent has ABSOLUTELY no reasonable explanation of him being able bypass the ENTIRE MYSTIC CLASS. This all started with mystic defenders slowly becoming nullify immune, then it went on to fateseal then stagger we let it slide because alot of people on here were defending kabam and explaining how cosmic defenders need It or else any mystic would be able to take them out easily. It wasn't that big of a deal because tigra started gaining popularity for her neutralize which was our escape from big cosmic mystic countering threats. We let it slide but now SERPENT is able to BYPASS EVERY MYSTIC ABILITY and kabam has now introduced a science champion who has UNCLEANSABLE debuffs, this could only be the beginning of more skill countering science champions. If the community does not start stating their disapproval on these things, it will only continue just like the photon undexable specials which we let slide because she was a well rounded champion and 2023 champions were mostly HITS and now we have serpent. Photon started the willpower mastery tampering, now we had onslaught as if his special attacks weren't hard enough to dex and the UNAVOIDABLE neuroshock damage you took by making one mistake weren't enough, he also punishes you for PARRYING(which is a mastery itself and a skill we all learnt) which now shuts of willpower as well in the process). We then had bullseye who also punished you for DEXING with the instant bleeds(thank GOD it got removed), then dust who shuts off WILLPOWER AS WELL and now serpent. This has got to stop please...
So they shouldn't introduce any new challenges within Champion kits for the duration of the game? I think that's called Candy Crush.
See, it’s this kind of Straw Man that actually hurts legitimate, honest and fair criticism.
Nobody is talking about “the duration of the game.” We’re talking a specific kit with a specific set of mechanics.
He gave specific examples of what game design can turn into when various accepted rules of the game being played start being disregarded — anything can be coded into the game to make it challenging, but that doesn’t make it fair.
You mentioned Magneto, whose status as a character/kit that is effective against Metal is simply an outlier even in the lore — the character itself is one that Sentinels have never really had an answer for. It’s the CHARACTER, not the KIT.
In this case, the kit is specifically designed with multiple carveouts meant to disregard class traits. That is not even remotely the same
That's not a Strawman. That's being flippant. The point is, they will eventually push our limits. The alternative is a game that never evolves. I've been around long enough to see people overcome everything they called "too far", including 12.0, which people have referenced in this Thread. If you'll remember, there were still the majority of changes that went through. We survived. It's evident that they want him in the game as-is. Which means it's not too much. They're the ones designing the game, after all. Honestly, there's a certain amount of hypocrisy going on here. People complain ad nauseum about the pulls they get and beg for Champions to be buffed when they pull a weaker Attacker, and the second a really challenging Defender comes along, it's too far.
Serpent shouldn't be countering the mystic class. Class relationships and masteries should not be messed with. His kit is so rigged that everyone has forgotten his special attacks being undexable from the start 😂
So do you want them to change Magneto too?
Magneto doesn't shut down the entire tech class just the metal ones that aren't immune to aar which a bunch of them are. Serpent is immune to anything the mystic class throws at him, even neutralize is like flipping a coin, nice try though.
That's not the point. The comment was "Class relationships and masteries should not be messed with". If that's the case, Magneto shouldn't have that ability either.
I know you love to try and prove me wrong but you're twisting what I was replying to.
Serpent shouldn't be countering the mystic class. Class relationships and masteries should not be messed with. His kit is so rigged that everyone has forgotten his special attacks being undexable from the start 😂
So do you want them to change Magneto too?
Magneto doesn't shut down the entire tech class just the metal ones that aren't immune to aar which a bunch of them are. Serpent is immune to anything the mystic class throws at him, even neutralize is like flipping a coin, nice try though.
That's not the point. The comment was "Class relationships and masteries should not be messed with". If that's the case, Magneto shouldn't have that ability either.
I know you love to try and prove me wrong but you're twisting what I was replying to.
I didn't twist anything, the reason that's not busted in Magneto is because class relationships aren't 100% messed with such as with Serpent. There's a noticeable difference between both but you're just here to defend Kabam so I guess it doesn't really matter what I say, it's just wild how you've been at this for years and I've never seen you disagree with Kabam ever, not even once. The lack of self-awareness is insane, get well soon.
Serpent shouldn't be countering the mystic class. Class relationships and masteries should not be messed with. His kit is so rigged that everyone has forgotten his special attacks being undexable from the start 😂
So do you want them to change Magneto too?
Magneto doesn't shut down the entire tech class just the metal ones that aren't immune to aar which a bunch of them are. Serpent is immune to anything the mystic class throws at him, even neutralize is like flipping a coin, nice try though.
That's not the point. The comment was "Class relationships and masteries should not be messed with". If that's the case, Magneto shouldn't have that ability either.
I know you love to try and prove me wrong but you're twisting what I was replying to.
I didn't twist anything, the reason that's not busted in Magneto is because class relationships aren't 100% messed with such as with Serpent. There's a noticeable difference between both but you're just here to defend Kabam so I guess it doesn't really matter what I say, it's just wild how you've been at this for years and I've never seen you disagree with Kabam ever, not even once. The lack of self-awareness is insane, get well soon.
Again... I wasn't replying to whether Magneto or Serpent are busted/not busted. Try actually reading what I said and what I replied to.
Serpent shouldn't be countering the mystic class. Class relationships and masteries should not be messed with. His kit is so rigged that everyone has forgotten his special attacks being undexable from the start 😂
So do you want them to change Magneto too?
Magneto doesn't shut down the entire tech class just the metal ones that aren't immune to aar which a bunch of them are. Serpent is immune to anything the mystic class throws at him, even neutralize is like flipping a coin, nice try though.
That's not the point. The comment was "Class relationships and masteries should not be messed with". If that's the case, Magneto shouldn't have that ability either.
I know you love to try and prove me wrong but you're twisting what I was replying to.
I didn't twist anything, the reason that's not busted in Magneto is because class relationships aren't 100% messed with such as with Serpent. There's a noticeable difference between both but you're just here to defend Kabam so I guess it doesn't really matter what I say, it's just wild how you've been at this for years and I've never seen you disagree with Kabam ever, not even once. The lack of self-awareness is insane, get well soon.
Again... I wasn't replying to whether Magneto or Serpent are busted/not busted. Try actually reading what I said and what I replied to.
And I told you that class relationships shouldn't be messed with if they're completely shutting down the class the way Serpent does which isn't the same as Magneto, what's not clicking?
Serpent shouldn't be countering the mystic class. Class relationships and masteries should not be messed with. His kit is so rigged that everyone has forgotten his special attacks being undexable from the start 😂
So do you want them to change Magneto too?
Magneto doesn't shut down the entire tech class just the metal ones that aren't immune to aar which a bunch of them are. Serpent is immune to anything the mystic class throws at him, even neutralize is like flipping a coin, nice try though.
That's not the point. The comment was "Class relationships and masteries should not be messed with". If that's the case, Magneto shouldn't have that ability either.
I know you love to try and prove me wrong but you're twisting what I was replying to.
I didn't twist anything, the reason that's not busted in Magneto is because class relationships aren't 100% messed with such as with Serpent. There's a noticeable difference between both but you're just here to defend Kabam so I guess it doesn't really matter what I say, it's just wild how you've been at this for years and I've never seen you disagree with Kabam ever, not even once. The lack of self-awareness is insane, get well soon.
Again... I wasn't replying to whether Magneto or Serpent are busted/not busted. Try actually reading what I said and what I replied to.
And I told you that class relationships shouldn't be messed with if they're completely shutting down the class the way Serpent does which isn't the same as Magneto, what's not clicking?
What you said and what the person I was replying to, aren't the same thing. I didn't reply to your comment. I replied to someone else. They didn't mention anything to what you said.
I was replying to a specific thing they said. They said class relationships shouldn't be messed with. Not "class relationships shouldn't be messed with unless it only affects part of the opposite class and not the whole class".
I wasn't talking to you originally but you're trying to add things that wasn't even part of my comment. This isn't the "gotcha" moment that you want it to be. You literally had to add more just to make your argument.
Serpent shouldn't be countering the mystic class. Class relationships and masteries should not be messed with. His kit is so rigged that everyone has forgotten his special attacks being undexable from the start 😂
So do you want them to change Magneto too?
Magneto was and should be the only exception given the nature of his powers. Serpent has ABSOLUTELY no reasonable explanation of him being able bypass the ENTIRE MYSTIC CLASS. This all started with mystic defenders slowly becoming nullify immune, then it went on to fateseal then stagger we let it slide because alot of people on here were defending kabam and explaining how cosmic defenders need It or else any mystic would be able to take them out easily. It wasn't that big of a deal because tigra started gaining popularity for her neutralize which was our escape from big cosmic mystic countering threats. We let it slide but now SERPENT is able to BYPASS EVERY MYSTIC ABILITY and kabam has now introduced a science champion who has UNCLEANSABLE debuffs, this could only be the beginning of more skill countering science champions. If the community does not start stating their disapproval on these things, it will only continue just like the photon undexable specials which we let slide because she was a well rounded champion and 2023 champions were mostly HITS and now we have serpent. Photon started the willpower mastery tampering, now we had onslaught as if his special attacks weren't hard enough to dex and the UNAVOIDABLE neuroshock damage you took by making one mistake weren't enough, he also punishes you for PARRYING(which is a mastery itself and a skill we all learnt) which now shuts of willpower as well in the process). We then had bullseye who also punished you for DEXING with the instant bleeds(thank GOD it got removed), then dust who shuts off WILLPOWER AS WELL and now serpent. This has got to stop please...
So they shouldn't introduce any new challenges within Champion kits for the duration of the game? I think that's called Candy Crush.
See, it’s this kind of Straw Man that actually hurts legitimate, honest and fair criticism.
Nobody is talking about “the duration of the game.” We’re talking a specific kit with a specific set of mechanics.
He gave specific examples of what game design can turn into when various accepted rules of the game being played start being disregarded — anything can be coded into the game to make it challenging, but that doesn’t make it fair.
You mentioned Magneto, whose status as a character/kit that is effective against Metal is simply an outlier even in the lore — the character itself is one that Sentinels have never really had an answer for. It’s the CHARACTER, not the KIT.
In this case, the kit is specifically designed with multiple carveouts meant to disregard class traits. That is not even remotely the same
The KITs are based on the CHARACTERs. They're one and the same. They're also two completely different things as one is a comic book story the other is a video game. Can't have it both ways and you also can't just make em interchangeable with each other. That's not how it works.
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Honestly, I don’t think anyone is complaining that the kit is too difficult to fight. I seriously don’t — this isn’t a “Git Gud” situation where the problem is ultimately a skill issue and people not really reading/understanding the kits.
This is a case where people are stating — accurately, in my opinion — that specific elements of this kit are unfair to play and violate the spirit, established rules and mechanics of the game, which is totally different.
For example: I am not saying “Holy smokes! Death Immunity with Regen and Power Gain is too hard! Boo hoo hoo!”
What I am saying is what is the explanation for how it is fair for the kit design for this iteration of the Death Immunity mechanic to be specifically immune to Nullify AND Stagger, with a 125 percent threshold for Neutralize, with an overall immunity to Fate Seal, as a Cosmic character?
What I just typed isn’t a “Git Gud”/Skill issue. That is literally a carve out from established game rules which are the problem in making this kit OP.
Nobody’s complaining that Overseer, as a Science character, is immune to Stagger, Nullify and Fate Seal. Right? It’s a Science character and those are Mystic traits. Nobody’s complaining about that.
It is nothing short of a “cheat” for this kind of carve out on the established Class Wheel traits, for a Cosmic character to have that many specific immunities to protect an absolutely busted mechanic — Serpent has FOUR CARVEOUTS to protect that busted mechanic, which is the problem with that kit.
It is unbelievable that isn’t being addressed — it never should have had all four!
There’s no way anyone can tell me that Serpent is ruined if Stagger OR Nullify had a fixed percentage to Proc on Death Immunty that was fair, or Fate Seal had a fixed percentage to Proc on Special Activation by the Attacker.
See? I am not whining for everything that is difficult about the kit to be removed.
Death Immunity is simply busted as it is and needs to be addressed at the game level with established game mechanics and class traits able to be used
His kit is so rigged that everyone has forgotten his special attacks being undexable from the start 😂
This all started with mystic defenders slowly becoming nullify immune, then it went on to fateseal then stagger we let it slide because alot of people on here were defending kabam and explaining how cosmic defenders need It or else any mystic would be able to take them out easily. It wasn't that big of a deal because tigra started gaining popularity for her neutralize which was our escape from big cosmic mystic countering threats. We let it slide but now SERPENT is able to BYPASS EVERY MYSTIC ABILITY and kabam has now introduced a science champion who has UNCLEANSABLE debuffs, this could only be the beginning of more skill countering science champions. If the community does not start stating their disapproval on these things, it will only continue just like the photon undexable specials which we let slide because she was a well rounded champion and 2023 champions were mostly HITS and now we have serpent.
Photon started the willpower mastery tampering, now we had onslaught as if his special attacks weren't hard enough to dex and the UNAVOIDABLE neuroshock damage you took by making one mistake weren't enough, he also punishes you for PARRYING(which is a mastery itself and a skill we all learnt) which now shuts of willpower as well in the process).
We then had bullseye who also punished you for DEXING with the instant bleeds(thank GOD it got removed), then dust who shuts off WILLPOWER AS WELL and now serpent. This has got to stop please...
I have noticed the increased tampering with Masteries. No one wants to be “That Guy” and constantly run to the Forums whining, but look where that has gotten us:
Unblockable Specials that can’t be Dexed, with a kit that takes the good of the Class Wheel (Cosmic class being increasingly resistant to Power Drain/Lock/Burn) while ignoring the weaknesses of the Class Wheel (Cosmic class typically having various degrees of vulnerability to Stagger/Nullify/Neutralize/Fate Seal)
This is not a good path to be on. It really isn’t
Nobody is talking about “the duration of the game.” We’re talking a specific kit with a specific set of mechanics.
He gave specific examples of what game design can turn into when various accepted rules of the game being played start being disregarded — anything can be coded into the game to make it challenging, but that doesn’t make it fair.
You mentioned Magneto, whose status as a character/kit that is effective against Metal is simply an outlier even in the lore — the character itself is one that Sentinels have never really had an answer for. It’s the CHARACTER, not the KIT.
In this case, the kit is specifically designed with multiple carveouts meant to disregard class traits. That is not even remotely the same
If they thought today's announcements would be enough to drive all the attention away (not saying they did) then they obviously thought wrong lol.
The point is, they will eventually push our limits. The alternative is a game that never evolves. I've been around long enough to see people overcome everything they called "too far", including 12.0, which people have referenced in this Thread. If you'll remember, there were still the majority of changes that went through. We survived. It's evident that they want him in the game as-is. Which means it's not too much. They're the ones designing the game, after all.
Honestly, there's a certain amount of hypocrisy going on here. People complain ad nauseum about the pulls they get and beg for Champions to be buffed when they pull a weaker Attacker, and the second a really challenging Defender comes along, it's too far.
I know you love to try and prove me wrong but you're twisting what I was replying to.
I was replying to a specific thing they said. They said class relationships shouldn't be messed with. Not "class relationships shouldn't be messed with unless it only affects part of the opposite class and not the whole class".
I wasn't talking to you originally but you're trying to add things that wasn't even part of my comment. This isn't the "gotcha" moment that you want it to be. You literally had to add more just to make your argument.