Upcoming Changes to Mystic Dispersion and Dexterity - Discussion Thread

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  • Markjv81Markjv81 Member Posts: 1,032 ★★★★
    What about cores that were found in the mystic daily quests, how are they refunded?
  • Axiom4Axiom4 Member Posts: 11
    Kabam should reimburse us for the resources we spent on MD.
  • ShalehanShalehan Member Posts: 15
    @Kabam Miike so finally sl is gonna be effective against mystic defenders..correct?

    Providing he manage to refresh his fury which wun fuel up mystic dispersion..because his fury is did not expire or nulified..

    Unless his fury did really expire from the full duration..correct me if im wrong...
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Member Posts: 2,396 ★★★★
    Markjv81 wrote: »
    What about cores that were found in the mystic daily quests, how are they refunded?

    refund how?????
    refund you for what?????
    nothing was spent, there is nothing to refund......
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,566 ★★★★★
    edited August 2018
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    Nothing about the Champs is beig changed at all. Masteries are additives. It's been an overpowered mechanic for a long time.

    While I’m always against the issuance of RDTs, this is a significant change. While champs specifically were not changed, a lot of mystic champs were solely ranked due to their defensive power combined with MD. I mean would you really rsnkn5* Jugg to R4+ for offense? Kabam also said in multiple instances that MD and its relationship with dexterity was working as intended and they had no plans to change it. I personally don’t have a dog in this race but I can understand people wanting recompense for this.

    The fundamental use for Tickets is changes to how the Champs themsleves are intended to perform. Nothing about the Champs is tied into MD. Meaning, take it away and the Champs work the same as they always have. It's an enhancement. One that's been way too overpowered. The Meta has changed, and it's now time to change it along with it. People may have Ranked for that relationship, but it's also served until now. The change is to the Mastery, not the Champs. As was stated, Ranking needs to be done with the awareness that it's a final decision, and what works now may not work the same down the road. The game is constantly evolving and changing.
    If this was a direct change to the Champs themsleves, in a way that was significant and altered their fundamental functioning, I would have less of an argument. The fact is, nothing about the Champs themsleves is being changed, and it's been requested since before they even decided to finalize. Ranking isn't something that's done with the idea that you'll be able to go back. Fundamentally, I do not agree that they're warranted because literally no change to Champs is being made. Not even an exploit fix.
  • JBenjaminJBenjamin Member Posts: 27
    Maat1985 wrote: »
    Markjv81 wrote: »
    What about cores that were found in the mystic daily quests, how are they refunded?

    refund how?????
    refund you for what?????
    nothing was spent, there is nothing to refund......

    They answered that. You will get loyalty for those.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,566 ★★★★★
    Jones979 wrote: »
    I appreciate the response from Miike, but it’s pretty **** to say that you have to expect the game to change and your champs won’t do the same thing they used to, but too bad, you’re stuck with them. Basically live in fear of who you spend your resources on, and hope that the next “meta” change doesn’t totally screw your team over.

    It's really not that dramatic or sudden. MD has been the same for years. The game has changed in that time.
  • ShalehanShalehan Member Posts: 15
    @Kabam Miike will sl fury trigger md if his fury is refreshed?
  • Quiqueeee7Quiqueeee7 Member Posts: 1
    edited August 2018
    Hi are you guys going to consider to give rank down tickets? I rank up mistic champs for only defense purposes, and now they will be useless in defense and I don’t use them at ofense.
    A lot of guys in my Alliance are in the same situation.
  • DTMelodicMetalDTMelodicMetal Member Posts: 2,785 ★★★★★
    ESF wrote: »
    I pretty fundamentally disagree with the concept of a shift in the meta automatically having the capability of rendering moot the allocation of rare materials -- I would probably feel differently if rare materials were available somewhat consistently, but come on now.

    Let's slow down here and be honest about what we're talking about.

    If you use a 5-star Awakening Gem on a character and that character is superseded by a subsequent character release, a la Blade, then hey. That happens. My 3-star OG Iron Man was really tough to beat when he armored up...three years ago.

    But it's very different when you pop a resource as rare as 5-star Awakening Gems onto a character because of how the characters interact, and it is simply ludicrous for someone to say that how Masteries function aren't part of that decision making -- it is simply nonsensical for a person to know that Masteries have value because they are either "purchased" or gifted, etc., but something even more rare that adds functionality to a character isn't the same.

    Again: I don't have a dog in this fight. But at some point, we all have to be able to use common sense, find the commonality between company and customer, and acknowledge that yes, the company has rights, but that doesn't mean the customer has none, and vice versa.

    You cannot treat resources like a 5-star Awakening Gem the same as a T3CC that you can grind for in the Daily Arena. They are not the same.

    It will not break the game to try to come together about this and give the company and the most affected individuals some of what each wants instead of one side getting everything they want.

    In every significant change, there has to be a standard of fairness and trust between customer and consumer. If the one side is fair, the other will have trust.

    Was Mystic Dispersion broken? Yes.

    Did people rank up characters because of how Mystic Dispersion worked? Yes.

    Both of those statements are true. It's not one or the other. It's both.

    The allocation of rare resources in this game isn't something that any of us take lightly -- these are grueling choices. We see people asking who to rank up EVERY SINGLE DAY.

    Every single person posting here knows that there's a line here that can be drawn:

    1. If you never unlocked and had no points in Mystic Dispersion, then you get nothing.
    2. If you unlocked it but weren't using it, you get the unlocking resources back.
    3. If you were using it as recently as yesterday, then there should be a discussion about what can be done to try to meet in the middle on something -- because if you awakened and took a character to R5, that matters a whole hell of a lot more. Maybe those people can't get everything back, but come on -- something could be done for these people.

    This is a matter of effort and problem-solving. It doesn't have to be winners and losers.

    Great job showing how both sides of the argument are valid
  • Markjv81Markjv81 Member Posts: 1,032 ★★★★
    Maat1985 wrote: »
    Markjv81 wrote: »
    What about cores that were found in the mystic daily quests, how are they refunded?

    refund how?????
    refund you for what?????
    nothing was spent, there is nothing to refund......

    For the time and energy to run it? Would have thought that was pretty obvious, good attempt to try and be a smartass though.
  • hephaestushephaestus Member Posts: 145
    Something that I think most have forgotten is that the mystic class with md will still gain power significantly faster than all the others. To say that mystic is dead seems extreme.

    I did recently rank up dorm with md being a significant factor in that decision. It would be nice to have kabam acknowledge that they would be willing to do something to compensate me for those wasted resources. But honestly the fact that they don't is not surprising.
  • OmniOmni Member Posts: 574 ★★★
    Hulk_77 wrote: »
    Hey Miike,

    I saw you say that the team has no plans to provide rank down tickets at this time and that champion performance will be monitored (Dorm in particular). I have several follow up questions:

    1) Did the team discuss the possibility of rank down tickets stemming from this change? If so, can you elaborate on why the team decided they felt they were unnecessary? And if not, will the team be willing to have that discussion if the users request it?

    2) What is the threshold for rank down tickets currently? I feel like the meta shift with this issue would easily qualify with the previously defined threshold, but that's just my opinion and I understand others may feel differently. If the threshold had changed, please share that with us.

    3) You mention monitoring champions. Please elaborate on how you are monitoring this (what metrics, etc), and for how long you will be conducting this monitoring. Furthermore, please be willing to share the results with the community. That level of transparency will certain help the community to better understand the team's thought process.

    4) Please don't just look at Dorm. I fully expect Juggs to be a much less effective defender as a result of this change as well.

    Thank you!
    Hey there! These are some great questions, and I hope these answers shed a little light on the topics.

    We have discussed the possibility of Rank Down Tickets, and have not decided for or against them. We're not going to give them out for this change independently of seeing how it actually affects these Champions. While we didn't see any significant/noticeable drops in performance in the Beta, we're going to keep an eye on this now that it will be out in the wild.

    The threshold will always vary, and there is no "set" answer that we can give here. We always look at what the impact of the change will be, and examine our data on the topic. I can say that they are not for Meta Shifts. Those are things that will always happen, and are good for the game and need to continue to happen. Those are much more natural and something that we should always expect. This doesn't mean that you should always be wary of where/when you're spending your resources, but remember that what may be the top of the top right now, may not be in a few months or a year.

    What we monitor will vary from situation to situation. For example, when looking at the effectiveness of Mystic Dispersion on a Defender, how often does it trigger? On a Defender in general, what is their win rate? How much HP do they end a fight with in comparison to how much they started with (Damage dealt vs Damage taken)? How long are their fights? For an attacker with Mystic Dispersion, how often are they able to make use of it? How often can they get their special attacks off? This is not a one size fits all solution. In an even more general sense, it will include usage rates, and which nodes they are placed on. For instance, are they being used more or less on a Boss Node or a Miniboss node? We have a lot of data collected on the effectiveness of these Champions in the old MD world, and will be comparing the two.

    And we are definitely not just going to watch Dormammu! Juggernaut is one that you guys have mentioned, and we're going to make sure he's also very closely monitored. We're going to be watching all of our Mystic Champions in this new MD world!

    How long is this “watching period going to last for?”
  • Saransh245Saransh245 Member Posts: 152
    I used cores to unlock md 1/2/3/4 levels. For md5 i used a mix of cores and units. I spent around 2k units and rest were in form of cores. Plz refund that. And what about the rank ups we did solely for defensive purpose, considering the devastation that md champs like morning star, dormammu, majik and mephisto can cause? What about those sig stones and gems? I know ur gonna say that we're not modifying any champ but, the reason why we upgraded those champs is that mastery. So, we deserve to be compensated there too. Thanks!
  • vinniegainzvinniegainz Member Posts: 902 ★★★
    @Kabam Miike

    I was wondering: how will the players who bought mastery cores with both loyalty and units will be refunded?

    Will you be able to extract that respective data? I.e. 'X' amount of cores were bought with units and 'X' amount of cores were bought with loyalty.

    Apologies if this has been answered but i searched through and could not find a clear answer.
  • KpatrixKpatrix Member Posts: 1,055 ★★★
    Maat1985 wrote: »
    Markjv81 wrote: »
    What about cores that were found in the mystic daily quests, how are they refunded?

    refund how?????
    refund you for what?????
    nothing was spent, there is nothing to refund......

    It was earned and used to add points to MD. If they are taken away and not comped then you will have to buy them again with loyalty/units if you want to max out MD again after the change. The devs have probably overlooked this but it definitely needs to be looked into.
  • HarryhoudiniHarryhoudini Member Posts: 42
    @Kabam Miike I don’t know how you can justify not giving mystic specific rank down tickets , I see a lot of people here asking for them, I also see a few saying no way, they aren’t needed. Aside from maybe magik and voodoo used for attack , most mystic defenders will be below agverage now . With the release of blade (which most ally’s have 20+ members with r5 blade) already put a huge damper on mystic defenders . Now by crippling MD can almost promise mystic defenders won’t get any kills from any somewhat decent skilled players . I myself have 3 5* r4 defenders with max MD. The refund and choice to add MD again or not when it’s nerfed is great . The same should be for our mystic defenders. 3/5 of my defenders will now be laughed at. And why would I use the refunded resources to put MD5 back when my defenders will be pointed and laughed at? For how long it took to make a decision after beta testing this surely wasn’t thought out very well. Leave MD alone or give us the choice to take down the champions we ranked up strictly due to having MD. Thanks
  • Wally_WooferWally_Woofer Member Posts: 186
    edited August 2018
    @Kabam Miike , I have but one question, why is MD getting preferential treatment? I've seen your post stating that Pure skill is more effective at level 3 prior to changes in the game, and that levels 4 and 5 are now only of benefit against high armors champs. Sure, I could have enjoyed opening the last two, most-costly levels of MD and reaped the benefits, but upon having what is being done now, I'd have nobody to blame but myself. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me! I think what is being done for MD is more than fair, and well beyond anything being requested for the last 18 months or longer by those of us that invested equally heavy in Pure Skill. So what makes the MD case different? I'm going to hazard to guess that it's a numbers game. Too many folks have subscribed to MD to sweep them under the rug. I wonder what Google and Apple will think of this bias. It's been ignored repeatedly in this thread. ...so how about being fair and continue to attempt to placate us with a "it's complicated " and "it's still being investigated"....it would go a long way to showing these MD folks how good they are getting treated.
This discussion has been closed.