Something no one else has asked...I got a lot of my cores for MD during one of the gifting events, he spent units on them and I spent units in return...what do I get back?
That’s been asked like half-a-dozen times already.
Something no one else has asked...I got a lot of my cores for MD during one of the gifting events, he spent units on them and I spent units in return...what do I get back?
That’s been asked like half-a-dozen times already.
Why are our points being stripped during this refund? Thats not how it was after the willpower nerf. How are we supposed to know if its worth spending our resources that youre refunding?
Will we get rank down tickets for this as I would have never taken magik to Rank 5 had I been aware of these planned changes. We should not only be compensated for the MD items but also any Cats etc from rank downs.
No, as MD still works and Magik is a viable champ. MD can still be applied but it just acts differently. Also MD was always a choice and not a requirement.
You can't deny that a lot of people specifically ranked mystic champions because of how Mystic Dispersion interacted with Dexterity. A lot of R4 Juggernauts/Dorumamu/Magik's that will be significantly weaker on AWD with the new changes.
That's true as a general statement, but there seems to be a mistaken perception that if players make a game play decision and the circumstances of that decision change downstream, they are entitled to undo that decision and redo it. That's not generally true in online games. You are supposed to make decisions knowing that the game will change in the future, and over sufficiently long enough periods of time (and often much less) eventually the premise of that decision will be invalidated.
*Sometimes* players are allowed to revisit those choices, but that's almost always the exception, not the rule. Uncertainty about the future is a *deliberate* part of the game, not an accident.
Getting kinda annoyed at the community right now. This is something people wanted as MD was unfairly punishing a mastery that was a basic necessity and now we are like (enter champ here) is ruined now even though this change will only be noticeable for when using Dexterity.
MD was the only thing saving the value of Mystic defenders. I actually like the change but my R4 Dorm is going to be useless on defense now. I’d have never taken him up.
I appreciate the change and my refund on units. What I really want back are my four T2As though.
And anybody saying these changes aren’t significant to warrant at least one class specific RDT are being disingenuous or they’re just uninformed. This is a huge nerf to that mastery and the class that depended on it for maximum value.
Tickets aren't for changes to Masteries.
Tickets are for whatever they deem them necessary for. Like a gift during the holidays last year.
Thanks for the super deep insight though.
Tickets are for major changes to the fundamental way the Champs specifically perform. Not for whatever they like. Some were given at Christmas for the express purpose of getting ready for the upcoming year, as a surprise gift. That's about it.
So tickets are ONLY for major changes to the fundamental way that champs perform, and NOT for whatever Kabam likes, BUT they were given out at Christmas for a completely unrelated reason? You're funny. I like you. You should post more funny things on the forums - I think everyone here enjoys a good laugh.
Their intended purpose is what I stated. If they want to do something for people at Christmas, it's their call. Yes. It's their game.
So now you're saying they CAN do whatever they want with RDTs. Way to backtrack pal, and thanks for agreeing with me and finally changing your opinion on something.
Don't bother enganging him, his agenda is clear. Just pretend he isn't there.
As for the changes, I am in a lower war tier, I don't have any decent mystics, and don't even have Mystic Dispersion, so I am not sure how the MD changes affect me, hut I am not sure about Dexterity's changes.
Why are our points being stripped during this refund? Thats not how it was after the willpower nerf. How are we supposed to know if its worth spending our resources that youre refunding?
You'll have 6 days to test out the new Mystic Dispersion before the refund is issued.
I really like this change and think it's good for the game.
However, while Kabam "monitors" mystic champions, I'd like to point out it isn't just Dormmamu that is affected by this change. Juggernaut is affected badly by this change. He used to be a pretty tough defender as the attacker would dex back during his unstoppable phase, thus triggering mystic dispersion and giving him enough power to trigger another unstoppable phase. With these changes, his use as a defender (and thus his desirability) will be significantly reduced, even more so than Dormmamu and Magik.
I really hope rank down tickets will be given for this change. I also hope they can be LIMITED to mystic characters and characters that are meant to counter them (Hulk Ragnarok and Blade), and NOT for every character. If, as you say, these characters are still very desirable then nobody will use them and nothing will change.
it's totally unfair and have mephisto on rank 4, I used generic awekning gem and 110 signature stone, and have juggernaut on rank 4, after replacements these characters will be completely useless in defensive. I've wasted generic awekning gem, siganture stone and 8 alpha 2. I do not want units or loyality and want resources that I threw into the basket by your "genius" changes, you're crazy.
People who have a mistic champion on rank 4 or rank 5 should get a dedicated rank down on mistic .....
I really hope rank down tickets will be given for this change. I also hope they can be LIMITED to mystic characters and characters that are meant to counter them (Hulk Ragnarok and Blade), and NOT for every character. If, as you say, these characters are still very desirable then nobody will use them and nothing will change.
Mystic rank down tickets should be on the table. Generic rank down tickets could and would be exploited.
You guys are nuts if you think RTDs will be given out. Even if they are warrented(don't know if they are. I have to test the changes before I can decide on that). They will never give them out unless champs are ridiculously nerfed. Even then it's a solid maybe.
Getting kinda annoyed at the community right now. This is something people wanted as MD was unfairly punishing a mastery that was a basic necessity and now we are like (enter champ here) is ruined now even though this change will only be noticeable for when using Dexterity.
You realize it can be both right? I’m glad the change is being made and want it as well. I also ranked certain defenders because of how it was before the change as many others did.
This isn’t an either or thing. You can be glad for the change and still want appropriate compensation because of it.
I was glad for the willpower nerf on 12.0 too but was still happy for the compensation from my LC and DE masteries that I stopped using after the change.
I think we should just slow down for a second here and see how the change works, because like @NOOOOOOOOPEEEEE said, how many times has a change occurred or a champ introduced and the first thing we as a community did was complain about it?
They'll have a 6 day testing period, during that time you can fight whatever duels or wars or even arena fights you want, and present your views after that. Also no confirmation bias if you can please, that just makes it a bit more annoying.
Getting kinda annoyed at the community right now. This is something people wanted as MD was unfairly punishing a mastery that was a basic necessity and now we are like (enter champ here) is ruined now even though this change will only be noticeable for when using Dexterity.
You realize it can be both right? I’m glad the change is being made and want it as well. I also ranked certain defenders because of how it was before the change as many others did.
This isn’t an either or thing. You can be glad for the change and still want appropriate compensation because of it.
I was glad for the willpower nerf on 12.0 too but was still happy for the compensation from my LC and DE masteries that I stopped using after the change.
Yeah but people are acting like these champs are now absolutely worthless defender's, when in truth they won't be. In fact Dormammu may become a even better defender as his Degrn chances increase the longer its been since the last one activated.
Since it is possible to refund mastery cores, it is equally possible to rank down and undo awakenig gem usage to everyone who has used an AG on a mystic champ, or taken them to r4 or 5. Simply rank down all our mystic champs of r4 and 5 and refund the materials, just like Mastery Cores. Then let us decide if we want to use those materials on someone else, or if we still value the champ, just like you are doing with MD.
It is not accurate or reasonable to refer to this as a bug, this is a significant and thoroughly planned out design change to several game mechanics that affects not just one champ, but an entire class. Some members of your community will experience significant disadvantage from this change, for having invested rare rank up materials acquired from static content on champions who have hade their defensive effectiveness dramatically reduced. You have acknowledged the gravity of the change in the act of refunding thousands of units worth of mastery cores to allow those who don’t want MD anymore to go without. I urge you to take the logical next step and refund the rank up and awakening materials for those who no longer wish to use mystic champions as defenders.
I personally support the change and think it will improve the game overall, I’m just disappointed that a segment of summoners are being severly disadvantaged compared to their peers. Please reconsider and simply apply the same solution for mystic cores to all mystic champions.
Not sure if this has been asked but will the dexterity change effect the way dormammu’s signature ability will trigger his degeneration when evading him @Kabam Miike
it's totally unfair and have mephisto on rank 4, I used generic awekning gem and 110 signature stone, and have juggernaut on rank 4, after replacements these characters will be completely useless in defensive. I've wasted generic awekning gem, siganture stone and 8 alpha 2. I do not want units or loyality and want resources that I threw into the basket by your "genius" changes, you're crazy.
People who have a mistic champion on rank 4 or rank 5 should get a dedicated rank down on mistic .....
Some top mystic defenders will still be viable for AW attack and questing after the changes go through. Dormammu still has double immunity with power control and regeneration, Mephisto still has poison immunity and regeneration and gains power more often when awakened, Magik and Voodoo will still dominate as attackers, and so on. That doesn't change the fact that some mystic champions' signature ability were designed to be used as AW defenders. Dormammu's degeneration scales based on AW nodes, Mephisto's aura of incineration is 10X more useful on AW defense than all other game modes, Juggernaut is useless in difficult quests unawakened and awakened but is currently a great defender on the right AW nodes when awakened, the list goes on.
No one in their right mind would use a 5* generic awakening gem on mystic champions other than Voodoo/Magik/Morningstar . Outside of AW defense those signature abilities like Dormammu's/Mephisto's/Juggernaut's/Unstoppable Colossus's are close to useless to players who have explored Act 5 and/or Labyrinth of Legends. I made multiple posts about this after the MD/Dexterity beta testing was announced, many other players did too. At times consistency does not appear to be part of MCOC's business model.
To continue on this post's opening sentence, some mystic champions will still have use as AW attackers and as questing champions once the changes are implemented. Dormammu is an excellent choice for node 30 in tier 1-5 AW, Mephisto will still be a good AW attacker and questing champion, and Voodoo/Magik/Morningstar/Guillotine/Hood won't be affected at all by this as AW attackers and questing champions. Juggernaut will become one of the worst champions in the game.
Optional mystic rank tickets that have an expiration time limit, optional unawakening gems that have an expiration time limit (mystic or generic based on what players used), and optional refunded signature stones that have an expiration time limit (mystic or generic based on what players used) should be up for consideration. In the recent overheating beta testing debacle, Kabam removed/reversed the acquiring and use of in-game resources that were obtained through exploits. The same methods used to determine the amount and specifics of what in-game resources were acquired and used through exploits could be used in this instance to accurately asses which players would be eligible to receive this paragraph's previously mentioned items.
1. Adding diversity as a scoring metric for AW.
2. Revealing classes of champions pointing you to exactly where mystics are. (Tip: when you knew were about to fight a mystic, you could have just removed the dexterity mastery until the fight was over then reapplied it.)
3. Capping punishable death limit at 3 per defender so even if you struggled against MD it wasn’t overly harmful to your alliance.
4. Released a string of science champs with abilities to counter the mystic class, whether it be just overpowering them ie. Red Hulk, making mystic abilities useless ie. Gladiator Hulk / Blade, or targeting the MD mastery and power gain specifically ie. Luke Cage / Void.
The change is completely unnecessary as there have already been multiple changes made that directly target MD even if that wasn’t the stated purpose. Stop correcting non-problems from yesteryear Kabam.
I only rank 4 and rank 5 some of my 5* and 4* Mystics champions because of MD and how awesome it was , shouldn't you guys give rank down tickets to the players since Dexterity and MD are not going to be what it uses to be ?? (Let's be honest its not gonna be the same)
Can you please answer my question about Loki? Will he gain power, if MD is active, from stealing buffs with Special-1 or from the opponent being Cursed?
Stealing isn’t nullifying, so I’m assuming that’s a no. That’s going to hit him pretty hard.
I only rank 4 and rank 5 some of my 5* and 4* Mystics champions because of MD and how awesome it was , shouldn't you guys give rank down tickets to the players since Dexterity and MD are not going to be what it uses to be ?? (Let's be honest its not gonna be the same)
I saw you say that the team has no plans to provide rank down tickets at this time and that champion performance will be monitored (Dorm in particular). I have several follow up questions:
1) Did the team discuss the possibility of rank down tickets stemming from this change? If so, can you elaborate on why the team decided they felt they were unnecessary? And if not, will the team be willing to have that discussion if the users request it?
2) What is the threshold for rank down tickets currently? I feel like the meta shift with this issue would easily qualify with the previously defined threshold, but that's just my opinion and I understand others may feel differently. If the threshold had changed, please share that with us.
3) You mention monitoring champions. Please elaborate on how you are monitoring this (what metrics, etc), and for how long you will be conducting this monitoring. Furthermore, please be willing to share the results with the community. That level of transparency will certain help the community to better understand the team's thought process.
4) Please don't just look at Dorm. I fully expect Juggs to be a much less effective defender as a result of this change as well.
1. Adding diversity as a scoring metric for AW.
2. Revealing classes of champions pointing you to exactly where mystics are. (Tip: when you knew were about to fight a mystic, you could have just removed the dexterity mastery until the fight was over then reapplied it.)
3. Capping punishable death limit at 3 per defender so even if you struggled against MD it wasn’t overly harmful to your alliance.
4. Released a string of science champs with abilities to counter the mystic class, whether it be just overpowering them ie. Red Hulk, making mystic abilities useless ie. Gladiator Hulk / Blade, or targeting the MD mastery and power gain specifically ie. Luke Cage / Void.
The change is completely unnecessary as there have already been multiple changes made that directly target MD even if that wasn’t the stated purpose. Stop correcting non-problems from yesteryear Kabam.
This is why the MD/Dexterity beta announcement came as such a surprise. 2017 was filled with posts about ending mystic wars and changing the MD/Dexterity interaction. Kabam did not comment on players' requests once. Instead they gave us better methods to deal with MD/Dexterity like Blade/capping AW death points at 3 deaths per node/Gladiator Hulk/Void/buffs for Luke Cage and Red Hulk. Players also spent months practice shallow evading to avoid dexterity triggered MD.
The announcement of AW Seasons caused players to continue using rare in-game resources on mystic champions they never used outside of AW defense. Everyone knows how cutthroat the prestige race is for top alliances, but at least one player has a 5/65 Dormammu with close to max sig ability in most of the biggest alliances in MCOC. I guarantee players like the one who was the 1st to explore Labyrinth of Legends would not have ranked up his max signature ability Dormammu to 5/65 if he had known these changes were being considered.
I saw you say that the team has no plans to provide rank down tickets at this time and that champion performance will be monitored (Dorm in particular). I have several follow up questions:
1) Did the team discuss the possibility of rank down tickets stemming from this change? If so, can you elaborate on why the team decided they felt they were unnecessary? And if not, will the team be willing to have that discussion if the users request it?
2) What is the threshold for rank down tickets currently? I feel like the meta shift with this issue would easily qualify with the previously defined threshold, but that's just my opinion and I understand others may feel differently. If the threshold had changed, please share that with us.
3) You mention monitoring champions. Please elaborate on how you are monitoring this (what metrics, etc), and for how long you will be conducting this monitoring. Furthermore, please be willing to share the results with the community. That level of transparency will certain help the community to better understand the team's thought process.
4) Please don't just look at Dorm. I fully expect Juggs to be a much less effective defender as a result of this change as well.
Thank you!
Excellent questions, way to word them constructively
@Kabam Miike I have a rank 4 sig 120 juggernaut. The only thing he has going for him is Unstoppable, the only way I keep going unstopable is to generate power. Mystic dispersion is directly tied to his ability as he does not have a lot of damage output but a lot of other Champs will be able to counter him quite easily without Mystic dispersion.
So on specialty nodes such as stun immune , Mystic dispersion was all he really had going for him. I really hope that you look into him as well as some of the others, but I believe that you either need to buff Juggernaut or provide a mystic rank down ticket for those who have him at R4.
The rank down could be class specific and will only be used by those who are actually effected by the change to md.
I saw you say that the team has no plans to provide rank down tickets at this time and that champion performance will be monitored (Dorm in particular). I have several follow up questions:
1) Did the team discuss the possibility of rank down tickets stemming from this change? If so, can you elaborate on why the team decided they felt they were unnecessary? And if not, will the team be willing to have that discussion if the users request it?
2) What is the threshold for rank down tickets currently? I feel like the meta shift with this issue would easily qualify with the previously defined threshold, but that's just my opinion and I understand others may feel differently. If the threshold had changed, please share that with us.
3) You mention monitoring champions. Please elaborate on how you are monitoring this (what metrics, etc), and for how long you will be conducting this monitoring. Furthermore, please be willing to share the results with the community. That level of transparency will certain help the community to better understand the team's thought process.
4) Please don't just look at Dorm. I fully expect Juggs to be a much less effective defender as a result of this change as well.
Thank you!
I would love to hear the response to these great questions @Kabam Miike
All u MD mystic guys took advantage of a broken mechanic for so long ... u don’t deserve any RDT... if they give RDt, u shud also give back all your AW winnings as well made possible by those OP mystic defenders before blade came
And for the record, i have 5/5 MD but this is good chng
Comments
That’s been asked like half-a-dozen times already.
I guess I skimmed too fast...did they answer it?
I guess I skimmed too fast...did they answer it?[/quote]
There’s a lot to read, understandable. Just the main post that said you would get loyalty for gifted cores. People are complaining, though.
That's true as a general statement, but there seems to be a mistaken perception that if players make a game play decision and the circumstances of that decision change downstream, they are entitled to undo that decision and redo it. That's not generally true in online games. You are supposed to make decisions knowing that the game will change in the future, and over sufficiently long enough periods of time (and often much less) eventually the premise of that decision will be invalidated.
*Sometimes* players are allowed to revisit those choices, but that's almost always the exception, not the rule. Uncertainty about the future is a *deliberate* part of the game, not an accident.
Don't bother enganging him, his agenda is clear. Just pretend he isn't there.
As for the changes, I am in a lower war tier, I don't have any decent mystics, and don't even have Mystic Dispersion, so I am not sure how the MD changes affect me, hut I am not sure about Dexterity's changes.
You'll have 6 days to test out the new Mystic Dispersion before the refund is issued.
However, while Kabam "monitors" mystic champions, I'd like to point out it isn't just Dormmamu that is affected by this change. Juggernaut is affected badly by this change. He used to be a pretty tough defender as the attacker would dex back during his unstoppable phase, thus triggering mystic dispersion and giving him enough power to trigger another unstoppable phase. With these changes, his use as a defender (and thus his desirability) will be significantly reduced, even more so than Dormmamu and Magik.
I really hope rank down tickets will be given for this change. I also hope they can be LIMITED to mystic characters and characters that are meant to counter them (Hulk Ragnarok and Blade), and NOT for every character. If, as you say, these characters are still very desirable then nobody will use them and nothing will change.
People who have a mistic champion on rank 4 or rank 5 should get a dedicated rank down on mistic .....
Mystic rank down tickets should be on the table. Generic rank down tickets could and would be exploited.
This isn’t an either or thing. You can be glad for the change and still want appropriate compensation because of it.
I was glad for the willpower nerf on 12.0 too but was still happy for the compensation from my LC and DE masteries that I stopped using after the change.
They'll have a 6 day testing period, during that time you can fight whatever duels or wars or even arena fights you want, and present your views after that. Also no confirmation bias if you can please, that just makes it a bit more annoying.
Yeah but people are acting like these champs are now absolutely worthless defender's, when in truth they won't be. In fact Dormammu may become a even better defender as his Degrn chances increase the longer its been since the last one activated.
It is not accurate or reasonable to refer to this as a bug, this is a significant and thoroughly planned out design change to several game mechanics that affects not just one champ, but an entire class. Some members of your community will experience significant disadvantage from this change, for having invested rare rank up materials acquired from static content on champions who have hade their defensive effectiveness dramatically reduced. You have acknowledged the gravity of the change in the act of refunding thousands of units worth of mastery cores to allow those who don’t want MD anymore to go without. I urge you to take the logical next step and refund the rank up and awakening materials for those who no longer wish to use mystic champions as defenders.
I personally support the change and think it will improve the game overall, I’m just disappointed that a segment of summoners are being severly disadvantaged compared to their peers. Please reconsider and simply apply the same solution for mystic cores to all mystic champions.
Some top mystic defenders will still be viable for AW attack and questing after the changes go through. Dormammu still has double immunity with power control and regeneration, Mephisto still has poison immunity and regeneration and gains power more often when awakened, Magik and Voodoo will still dominate as attackers, and so on. That doesn't change the fact that some mystic champions' signature ability were designed to be used as AW defenders. Dormammu's degeneration scales based on AW nodes, Mephisto's aura of incineration is 10X more useful on AW defense than all other game modes, Juggernaut is useless in difficult quests unawakened and awakened but is currently a great defender on the right AW nodes when awakened, the list goes on.
No one in their right mind would use a 5* generic awakening gem on mystic champions other than Voodoo/Magik/Morningstar . Outside of AW defense those signature abilities like Dormammu's/Mephisto's/Juggernaut's/Unstoppable Colossus's are close to useless to players who have explored Act 5 and/or Labyrinth of Legends. I made multiple posts about this after the MD/Dexterity beta testing was announced, many other players did too. At times consistency does not appear to be part of MCOC's business model.
To continue on this post's opening sentence, some mystic champions will still have use as AW attackers and as questing champions once the changes are implemented. Dormammu is an excellent choice for node 30 in tier 1-5 AW, Mephisto will still be a good AW attacker and questing champion, and Voodoo/Magik/Morningstar/Guillotine/Hood won't be affected at all by this as AW attackers and questing champions. Juggernaut will become one of the worst champions in the game.
Optional mystic rank tickets that have an expiration time limit, optional unawakening gems that have an expiration time limit (mystic or generic based on what players used), and optional refunded signature stones that have an expiration time limit (mystic or generic based on what players used) should be up for consideration. In the recent overheating beta testing debacle, Kabam removed/reversed the acquiring and use of in-game resources that were obtained through exploits. The same methods used to determine the amount and specifics of what in-game resources were acquired and used through exploits could be used in this instance to accurately asses which players would be eligible to receive this paragraph's previously mentioned items.
1. Adding diversity as a scoring metric for AW.
2. Revealing classes of champions pointing you to exactly where mystics are. (Tip: when you knew were about to fight a mystic, you could have just removed the dexterity mastery until the fight was over then reapplied it.)
3. Capping punishable death limit at 3 per defender so even if you struggled against MD it wasn’t overly harmful to your alliance.
4. Released a string of science champs with abilities to counter the mystic class, whether it be just overpowering them ie. Red Hulk, making mystic abilities useless ie. Gladiator Hulk / Blade, or targeting the MD mastery and power gain specifically ie. Luke Cage / Void.
The change is completely unnecessary as there have already been multiple changes made that directly target MD even if that wasn’t the stated purpose. Stop correcting non-problems from yesteryear Kabam.
Stealing isn’t nullifying, so I’m assuming that’s a no. That’s going to hit him pretty hard.
They are refunding any cores purchased or found
I saw you say that the team has no plans to provide rank down tickets at this time and that champion performance will be monitored (Dorm in particular). I have several follow up questions:
1) Did the team discuss the possibility of rank down tickets stemming from this change? If so, can you elaborate on why the team decided they felt they were unnecessary? And if not, will the team be willing to have that discussion if the users request it?
2) What is the threshold for rank down tickets currently? I feel like the meta shift with this issue would easily qualify with the previously defined threshold, but that's just my opinion and I understand others may feel differently. If the threshold had changed, please share that with us.
3) You mention monitoring champions. Please elaborate on how you are monitoring this (what metrics, etc), and for how long you will be conducting this monitoring. Furthermore, please be willing to share the results with the community. That level of transparency will certain help the community to better understand the team's thought process.
4) Please don't just look at Dorm. I fully expect Juggs to be a much less effective defender as a result of this change as well.
Thank you!
This is why the MD/Dexterity beta announcement came as such a surprise. 2017 was filled with posts about ending mystic wars and changing the MD/Dexterity interaction. Kabam did not comment on players' requests once. Instead they gave us better methods to deal with MD/Dexterity like Blade/capping AW death points at 3 deaths per node/Gladiator Hulk/Void/buffs for Luke Cage and Red Hulk. Players also spent months practice shallow evading to avoid dexterity triggered MD.
The announcement of AW Seasons caused players to continue using rare in-game resources on mystic champions they never used outside of AW defense. Everyone knows how cutthroat the prestige race is for top alliances, but at least one player has a 5/65 Dormammu with close to max sig ability in most of the biggest alliances in MCOC. I guarantee players like the one who was the 1st to explore Labyrinth of Legends would not have ranked up his max signature ability Dormammu to 5/65 if he had known these changes were being considered.
Excellent questions, way to word them constructively
So on specialty nodes such as stun immune , Mystic dispersion was all he really had going for him. I really hope that you look into him as well as some of the others, but I believe that you either need to buff Juggernaut or provide a mystic rank down ticket for those who have him at R4.
The rank down could be class specific and will only be used by those who are actually effected by the change to md.
Thanks
I would love to hear the response to these great questions @Kabam Miike
And for the record, i have 5/5 MD but this is good chng