Concerning Ebony Maw, one thing could be done to make him a great champions
- transform the flat +x damage per deterioration in a +x% damage per deterioration and make these deterioration permanent debuff
This would leave Maw mechanics as you changed him but also make him a good damage dealer like human torch and its smoulder No need to be as powerful as human torch
lets say a a +17% damage to degen per deterioration
With 20 permanent deteriorations that would do something like 198 damage per tic for a 5R3 instead of the actual 87,5 one time...
Concerning Ebony Maw, one thing could be done to make him a great champions
- transform the flat +x damage per deterioration in a +x% damage per deterioration and make these deterioration permanent debuff
This would leave Maw mechanics as you changed him but also make him a good damage dealer like human torch and its smoulder No need to be as powerful as human torch
lets say a a +17% damage to degen per deterioration
With 20 permanent deteriorations that would do something like 198 damage per tic for a 5R3 instead of the actual 87,5 one time...
Or even make the permanent deterioration equal to the persistent charges ! Maw would grow in power with each fight 😉
0-20 temperature in 2 seconds on Human Torch? No where near. Also what's with his MLM animations? Trying to land a parry after a MLM is horrible - the only champion I've had this problem with.
Following the info released what are you guys all doing with your namors?
I think HT changes are good. Just needs that sig ability buff.
Inv woman needed a buff for sure.
Annihilus still won’t be touched. He needs another look
Cull. I never used him anyway but I think that block prof will always be a pain.
Ebony I would like to play as can imagine what it will do for him at this stage
My Namor is going to 5/65. That rebalancing is fine in my book. Others might disagree, but I understand what they did and why they did it. It's not gonna crush the character
Gonna +1 this.
My Namor has been 5/65 sig200 for a month or so now, and since then has gotten me through a good chunk of content with significantly fewer units spent (namely several paths in 6.1-6.2 and a unitless V2 exploration). In my eyes, he’s accomplished the purpose for which I ranked him, and I’d made my peace with the fact that he’d be tuned down.
But it looks like his rebalancing is fairer than I’d expected. I’m not too fussed about the regen decrease, as my main source of regen for Namor came from max WP + suicides while attacking. His increased ramp up time is something I’ll have to see for myself once the update goes live, but on paper it doesn’t seem too drastic a change at all. Pleasantly surprised.
I think that is an issue. Players who ranked him up and completed content with him, can now just regain their resources. In the meanwhile, I wil not have the same advantages in the future. That's why these rebalances should be released much earlier, so players have the least exploited benefit from it.
@Colonaut123 Personally I won't be ranking him down. His prestige is currently too important to me at a time where my alliance is trying to break into the top 300 for AQ rankings.
Although I don't quite see it as 'exploited benefit', I do agree with your overall argument - rebalancing (when necessary) should ideally be communicated and put into action much sooner than was the case with these particular champs.
@Kabam Miike I don’t have all the champions rebalanced, but I do have annihilous, and he is super disappointing. The only way he can do decent damage (not great damage) is stacking 12 fury’s. To get that many takes several rounds of L1 because of the short stifle duration. Instead of extending his weak fury, the stifle duration should’ve been extended. Then it would be possible to get the 12 needed to get max damage. Our cap the stifle at six and double the potency of his fury. I feel like the best option would be to decrease the stifle cap and increase the fury potency. We understand the rebalancing should be small tweaks to make them more viable, but this tweak does nothing to address that. Not expecting a massive colossus type overhaul, something to actually make his better.
I have tested my Cull in the rebalance and while he does seem to take less damage it is not enough to make up for taking away his hitting power, used him today he hit like a pillow..... usually it would be a quick fight now takes a long time to complete just one fight, will be using other champs now and will be selling him, disappointed....
The disconnect between the perceived effort in the balance changes and result 1) Tons of notices and release of all the data used to make determination (summoners are primed for big changes) 2) Buffs are almost imperceptible 3) Nerfs are sort of buffs (depending on perspective)
These seem like changes you could have done at a whim.
Kabam looks fantastically incompetent when they put in so much effort with so little result.
I’m only happy with 1 of the 5 changes which is cull, he feels much better in early fights and actually seems somewhat better while still doing what they wanted, though he still needs at least average block, the 3 buffs are hardly noticeable, and namor is unnecessary
The disconnect between the perceived effort in the balance changes and result 1) Tons of notices and release of all the data used to make determination (summoners are primed for big changes) 2) Buffs are almost imperceptible 3) Nerfs are sort of buffs (depending on perspective)
These seem like changes you could have done at a whim.
Kabam looks fantastically incompetent when they put in so much effort with so little result.
You have to realize that they said small changes and thats what these were. They weren't re-works of the champs which is what everyone was making them out to be. Miike was very clear about it once they decided to do all those champs. They did exactly what they said they were doing.
I’m only happy with 1 of the 5 changes which is cull, he feels much better in early fights and actually seems somewhat better while still doing what they wanted, though he still needs at least average block, the 3 buffs are hardly noticeable, and namor is unnecessary
Yeah I feel like that's the general consensus at the moment, and the impression I've gotten from testing out the various changes.
HT rebalance seems underwhelming at best and pretty much imperceptible at worst. Annihilus and Maw aren't really worth discussing. Namor's changes were, as you said, unnecessary and unprovoked, and the data they presented doesn't really seem to support their rationale for tuning him down.
Annihilus’s rework is fundamentally useless. Extending the furies off the sp2 does nothing to fix the issue which is that you can realistically only get maybe three-six furies constantly in a fight because of how short the stifle duration is. The easy solution is to increase how long the pause is on the sp1 that way it won’t really affect his performance on defense.
I think I can speak for many people but overall impression to me is: "Is that what we're waiting for after six months and several post-phoning?". It is has been a real let-down. I can be wrong, but I truly wonder if the developers took it serious. Like, Annihilus is not even a buff at all.
Who said they were going to be buffs? Or Nerfs for the other side of the coin?
They were named balance changed for a reason and that’s what they did. They rebalanced. Annihilus is a very different champ than Maw. Why should they get the same treatment. Matter of fact, who said they would ?
From what I’ve seen it’s very meh. Probably would have been ok if they made him hit ‘normally’ but he needs max sig and a few fights to ramp up before he becomes average.
Not quite sure how the numbers are calculated but Domino’s numbers and some of the meh champs ratings aren’t *that* dissimilar to make such a massive difference
Nope. He’s still a noodle poodle. Maybe this means he will be on the waiting list for a full rework. They said we are supposed to “fear the maw.” Maybe on the 5th the real Maw will show up?
He has a learning curve. If all you're doing is parry and 5 hit combo like seatin and everyone else commenting yes you are going to say he sucks
There is nothing to learn he his just a very hopeless champ at this stage of the game. After waiting for months for his buff he is still a complete noodle.
@Colinwhitworth69 the balance update was announced 6 months ago. It was then paused for over 3 months with no update and this was the best they could do. I understand that the changes were supposed to be small, but what was the point in holding the changes off for over 6 months and making them this small. Collecting the data and actually making changes this small does not take 6 months. 6 months is more of a time period in which champs are completely reworked (colossus and old man logan).
This was an honest waste of your resources and time and has done nearly nothing for the game. HT may be better but I still dont see the ability to get to 20 in one parry with stun maxed. Real balance changes could have been pursued on one champ verses small and in most cases almost unnoticeable tweaks and data and charts being made.
These changes did nothing to really change the worth of any of these champs and as a result largely most will not use/or continue to use the affected champs for the same reasons before as previously.
For me What is the point of making these changes if they dont actually move the needle more than a smidge on the champ.... especially when the champ was completely not viable on the meta before. These changes will not have any impact on the contest as a whole from both a gameplay or use experience and thus were wasted effort/resources in my opinion.
While I'm happy the Balance down didnt destroy champs I'm disappointed they did nothing to actually help the others for the others for the most part.
Not sure where else to post this, so I will post it here. I don’t think the changes are too bad. I haven’t yet tried Namor in endgame content, but I don’t think I will sell him or Cull.
But my issue is this, I opened 20 featured crystals with Namor and Cull in them, for Namor and Cull. I took Namor to R5 and Cull to R4. No other champs I pulled including Ebony Maw and Ronin did I take past R3. 20 featured is 100,000 5* shards EXTRA. That’s 10 basic crystals. I don’t think I would have gone for that featured if I knew these champs were getting nerfed or OP. So what do I do now? I honestly feel I have been “ripped off” for 100k 5* shards with this whole thing. I feel bad for those who spent $ as well. I doubt any compensation I will get will be worth 100,000 5* shards.
Namor’s nerf was just raising his ability accuracy for his bleeds(might’ve done other things idk). When I saw it I was like that ain’t a nerf. Now he does a butt load of bleed damage.
I'm gonna be very honest with you guys here. You're right that this shouldn't have taken this long, and these changes are very small. But this was done as a direct result of the reaction that players had to the announcement of Cull's rebalance. We always tried to make it clear that rebalance changes are meant to be small, and only make a few changes to numbers here and there, but understandably, players didn't know what that meant for Cull, and were scared of what it would be in the end.
So, we wanted to make sure that we made you all more comfortable with the idea of Balance changes, and show you why we do them. Human Torch and Annihilus's balance changes were basically ready by the time we announced we're putting a pause on it. But in order to gather the data and present it in a player facing manner for all of these Champs, we needed to take some time.
We made it very clear that these are not Reworks, and that these changes should not change your perception of a Champion if you love them.
Going forward, if our players feel they're more comfortable with these, maybe we will be much quicker with them, but from what many of you have told me, you like the context, you like the data, and you like that we took our time to actually think about the changes.
Comments
- transform the flat +x damage per deterioration in a +x% damage per deterioration and make these deterioration permanent debuff
This would leave Maw mechanics as you changed him but also make him a good damage dealer like human torch and its smoulder
No need to be as powerful as human torch
lets say a a +17% damage to degen per deterioration
With 20 permanent deteriorations that would do something like 198 damage per tic for a 5R3 instead of the actual 87,5 one time...
Maw would grow in power with each fight 😉
Although I don't quite see it as 'exploited benefit', I do agree with your overall argument - rebalancing (when necessary) should ideally be communicated and put into action much sooner than was the case with these particular champs.
1) Tons of notices and release of all the data used to make determination (summoners are primed for big changes)
2) Buffs are almost imperceptible
3) Nerfs are sort of buffs (depending on perspective)
These seem like changes you could have done at a whim.
Kabam looks fantastically incompetent when they put in so much effort with so little result.
HT rebalance seems underwhelming at best and pretty much imperceptible at worst. Annihilus and Maw aren't really worth discussing. Namor's changes were, as you said, unnecessary and unprovoked, and the data they presented doesn't really seem to support their rationale for tuning him down.
They were named balance changed for a reason and that’s what they did. They rebalanced.
Annihilus is a very different champ than Maw. Why should they get the same treatment. Matter of fact, who said they would ?
Proof: check Seatin's video on him post-buff.
Note that Seatin goes to Act 4 with 4* Maw (usually does Act 5/6 or ROL for 4 star testing)
Not quite sure how the numbers are calculated but Domino’s numbers and some of the meh champs ratings aren’t *that* dissimilar to make such a massive difference
This was an honest waste of your resources and time and has done nearly nothing for the game. HT may be better but I still dont see the ability to get to 20 in one parry with stun maxed. Real balance changes could have been pursued on one champ verses small and in most cases almost unnoticeable tweaks and data and charts being made.
These changes did nothing to really change the worth of any of these champs and as a result largely most will not use/or continue to use the affected champs for the same reasons before as previously.
For me What is the point of making these changes if they dont actually move the needle more than a smidge on the champ.... especially when the champ was completely not viable on the meta before. These changes will not have any impact on the contest as a whole from both a gameplay or use experience and thus were wasted effort/resources in my opinion.
While I'm happy the Balance down didnt destroy champs I'm disappointed they did nothing to actually help the others for the others for the most part.
But my issue is this, I opened 20 featured crystals with Namor and Cull in them, for Namor and Cull. I took Namor to R5 and Cull to R4. No other champs I pulled including Ebony Maw and Ronin did I take past R3. 20 featured is 100,000 5* shards EXTRA. That’s 10 basic crystals. I don’t think I would have gone for that featured if I knew these champs were getting nerfed or OP. So what do I do now? I honestly feel I have been “ripped off” for 100k 5* shards with this whole thing. I feel bad for those who spent $ as well. I doubt any compensation I will get will be worth 100,000 5* shards.
So, we wanted to make sure that we made you all more comfortable with the idea of Balance changes, and show you why we do them. Human Torch and Annihilus's balance changes were basically ready by the time we announced we're putting a pause on it. But in order to gather the data and present it in a player facing manner for all of these Champs, we needed to take some time.
We made it very clear that these are not Reworks, and that these changes should not change your perception of a Champion if you love them.
Going forward, if our players feel they're more comfortable with these, maybe we will be much quicker with them, but from what many of you have told me, you like the context, you like the data, and you like that we took our time to actually think about the changes.
If Kabam push changes slowly then they're taking too long.
Some people just don't want to be appeased.