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Flow global node in War [Merged Threads]

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Comments

  • KnightZeroKnightZero Posts: 1,416 ★★★★★
    edited April 2020
    GroundedWisdom said:

    KnightZero said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    KnightZero said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    FreeToPlay_21 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    So why don't people use the 3 counters available? CB has been around for ages, same with Quake. You can't use the same Champs indefinitely.

    Because some players might not have those three counters. I myself don't have any of the three Champions. Even in that, there are match-ups where even these three Champions can fall flat.

    Crossbones, in some match-ups doesn't have enough damage to end the matches, Quake can be screwed over by IMIWs etc. There are just so many variables and so few counters.
    Tiers 1-5 shouldn't really be doable for most Players. Their Rosters should be pretty wide by that point. Wide enough to have at least one of the counters. CB has been in the game for years. Quake after. Can you get stopped up? Yes. That's War. It's not AQ, where you have the same Map week after week and guaranteed Rewards with the same strategies. It should be different now and then. Whenever something is introduced that requires playing differently, people are upset. Why? Human Beings, and Gamers, are creatures of habit. They don't like change much. Only the game can't have longevity if everyone relies on Corvus indefinitely, or Ghost, or SW back in the day. Always a go-to Champ around, but there's no game-winner in this game. It will shift eventually. Otherwise we won't grow in the game, and neither will the game itself.
    I really don't get why you keep saying that T1-T5 shouldn't be doable lol. Everything should be doable should you have the skill. But flow is cutting out skill for most part. As I've said in another thread, Kabam has been a strict advocate for the fact that every champ is useful and so on. Well, flow is in complete contrast to that. 90% of the champs become useless with flow. Even on non stun immune nodes, champs just go passive 50% of the time with the power gain.
    Usually don't say this, but you wouldn't understand the difficulty without playing it. I never thought flow was this hard from what the node described. The second I faced it, my time changed.
    Where did they say that every Champ should be useful for every bit of content?
    Might not have said the exact words, but they definitely meant that each champ should be usable in content. With Flow, most champs aren't.
    War is supposed to be about strategy. That was the entire point about removing hidden nodes. So that you can plan for different types of champs. What on Earth can you plan if only a few champs are viable?
    And not everyone has those champs.
    No. They never implied that each Champ should be usable in all content. On the contrary, they've always encouraged people to explore all options, and in recent times, quite specifically stated that more limitations will be added. For someone starting the game out, that might be true. Any Champ could be used for the majority of content. Getting closer to the top, it's naive to think you should be able to interchange any Champ in your Roster for any content. You have to limit what people use to make it a challenge. Especially with the number of Champs available and the breadth of Rosters these days.
    I'm not talking about all champs being used for every node in all content. That defies the local node part of content in general. But a number of champs should be viable to do a part of content. The local nodes are what reduces the variety of champs used. Then the champs on the node. Adding a global to make 10 champs usable is not a challenge. You're not able to understand the difficulty in war, and keep talking about how it should be a challenge. Challenge means that you should be skilled enough to do it. There is zero skill in flow other than Quake. Is that hard to understand?
    Again, explore more options means that it's not one champ for all content. They have definitely stated that you need to rely on more than one champ. Having a 'diverse' roster. How is only relying on Quake the same as what they preach?
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,242 ★★★★★
    rwhack said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    So why don't people use the 3 counters available? CB has been around for ages, same with Quake. You can't use the same Champs indefinitely.

    I'm always curious why you comment more than you actually play.

    In regard to the tier you play it does matter. I can wreck whatever board you set in your tier and you wouldn't get beyond the first set playing "up" so to speak.

    If you want to play tier 1 this is what you'll need:

    Quake....full quake not parry/heavy
    Guilly2099
    Magik (with a power start 1 boost)
    Right now ghost trinity is more important than ever...and you need the whole trinity

    I see you comment all the time but what you lack is any perspective. You then argue with people who do. I can't decide if it's funny or sad.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    You talk about monotony while we have limited resources to rank up and no matter who you are and around 15% of the champs that are 6 stars don't suck.

    If you want variety as opposed to monotony we shouldn't have 119 6 stars most of whom not worthy to take up to r3 or even R2 and we can only open 1-2 a month. The concept right now is that if a champ is good they will make them worse within 3 months to bring them down closer to the level of the average champ who is generally below average.

    They should get rid of at least half the 6 star pool and give shards back and make opening a 6 star less of a punch in the gut.


    That's literally more of the same problem. Peopke chasing after the same few options and when something comes along that challenges those common choices, they have even less to choose from.
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    Jestress said:

    Worknprogress said:

    Jestress said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Jestress said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Jestress said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    My concern isn't who uses what. It's not even that people think the Node is OP. My concern is stagnancy. No idea why you're playing 3 Accounts in Tiers 1-5, but that's besides the point. Regardless of who we bring, we will have to switch strategies eventually. The last thing I want is a game that dies out because it becomes repetitive motions without change. That's exactly what happens when nothing throws curve balls or switches up from time to time. The game becomes stale and monotonous. When nothing changes or brings different challenges, I start to worry about the future of the game as a whole. This is one Node. Which won't be around indefinitely itself.

    Based on everything you're saying, I assume you've actually played against Flow Tactics in Tiers 1-5 @GroundedWisdom?
    I'd be curious to see how you got that from what I said. Do you think that being in Tiers 1-5 exempts people from having to change strategies?
    Absolutely not. But I don't think you should be dishing out opinions on content that you don't play if you haven't experienced it first hand.
    Did I say people were wrong that it was OP? Did I say my experience led me to believe it was fine? Pretty sure I didn't.
    I'd enjoy hearing your feedback on how a R5 Crossbones performs in Tiers 1-5. Let me know.
    He actually does fairly well against a select few matchups depending on the nodes. Problem is there are far more bad matchups than good for him
    It was more of a rhetorical statement. I'm in Tier 3 and actively dealing with Flow Tactics and laughed out loud when I read bringing CB. Not sustainable.
    We have a few R5 crossbones in the upper side of T2. They do well in a few matchups. He's still a viable option but there are lots of champs/nodes he flat out wont work for
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,242 ★★★★★
    rwhack said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    rwhack said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    So why don't people use the 3 counters available? CB has been around for ages, same with Quake. You can't use the same Champs indefinitely.

    I'm always curious why you comment more than you actually play.

    In regard to the tier you play it does matter. I can wreck whatever board you set in your tier and you wouldn't get beyond the first set playing "up" so to speak.

    If you want to play tier 1 this is what you'll need:

    Quake....full quake not parry/heavy
    Guilly2099
    Magik (with a power start 1 boost)
    Right now ghost trinity is more important than ever...and you need the whole trinity

    I see you comment all the time but what you lack is any perspective. You then argue with people who do. I can't decide if it's funny or sad.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    You talk about monotony while we have limited resources to rank up and no matter who you are and around 15% of the champs that are 6 stars don't suck.

    If you want variety as opposed to monotony we shouldn't have 119 6 stars most of whom not worthy to take up to r3 or even R2 and we can only open 1-2 a month. The concept right now is that if a champ is good they will make them worse within 3 months to bring them down closer to the level of the average champ who is generally below average.

    They should get rid of at least half the 6 star pool and give shards back and make opening a 6 star less of a punch in the gut.


    That's literally more of the same problem. Peopke chasing after the same few options and when something comes along that challenges those common choices, they have even less to choose from.
    Once again, you lack perspective. Tell me when you ever said I wish I had the following especially for AW:
    Karnak
    Beast
    Winter Solider
    Yellowjacket
    Gamora
    Iron Fist
    Deadpool XForce
    BlackBolt
    Cable
    Kingpin
    Sentry
    Hela
    Drax
    Cyclops (either one)
    Moon Knight
    Magneto
    Antman
    Civil Warrior
    Captain Marvel
    Gambit

    ...and that's without trying. Further there is less to chase with less garbage in the pool so you just made my point for me.

    You don't understand flow either. There are 3 champs for it without gray boosts or a synergy team
    Guilly 2099
    Quake
    Crossbones
    Ghost trinity (ghost alone gets wrecked)

    Any chance we can convince you to have some perspective?
    Cherry picking Champs and only sticking to the same, few God Tiers is a contributing factor to the issue I'm discussing. Only those matter, the rest are garbage, and anytime something is introduced into the game that limits those options, it's seen as garbage itself.
  • KnightZeroKnightZero Posts: 1,416 ★★★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    rwhack said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    So why don't people use the 3 counters available? CB has been around for ages, same with Quake. You can't use the same Champs indefinitely.

    I'm always curious why you comment more than you actually play.

    In regard to the tier you play it does matter. I can wreck whatever board you set in your tier and you wouldn't get beyond the first set playing "up" so to speak.

    If you want to play tier 1 this is what you'll need:

    Quake....full quake not parry/heavy
    Guilly2099
    Magik (with a power start 1 boost)
    Right now ghost trinity is more important than ever...and you need the whole trinity

    I see you comment all the time but what you lack is any perspective. You then argue with people who do. I can't decide if it's funny or sad.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    You talk about monotony while we have limited resources to rank up and no matter who you are and around 15% of the champs that are 6 stars don't suck.

    If you want variety as opposed to monotony we shouldn't have 119 6 stars most of whom not worthy to take up to r3 or even R2 and we can only open 1-2 a month. The concept right now is that if a champ is good they will make them worse within 3 months to bring them down closer to the level of the average champ who is generally below average.

    They should get rid of at least half the 6 star pool and give shards back and make opening a 6 star less of a punch in the gut.


    That's literally more of the same problem. Peopke chasing after the same few options and when something comes along that challenges those common choices, they have even less to choose from.
    But here again we're forced to chase after those few options only. For anyone who crits even a slight bit, it's pray to God. When people want to R5, they rarely R5 Niche options. You want to have someone who can cover bases. Because resources aren't easy to come by. Make all champions good, and then we can talk about not chasing champs.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,242 ★★★★★
    KnightZero said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    rwhack said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    So why don't people use the 3 counters available? CB has been around for ages, same with Quake. You can't use the same Champs indefinitely.

    I'm always curious why you comment more than you actually play.

    In regard to the tier you play it does matter. I can wreck whatever board you set in your tier and you wouldn't get beyond the first set playing "up" so to speak.

    If you want to play tier 1 this is what you'll need:

    Quake....full quake not parry/heavy
    Guilly2099
    Magik (with a power start 1 boost)
    Right now ghost trinity is more important than ever...and you need the whole trinity

    I see you comment all the time but what you lack is any perspective. You then argue with people who do. I can't decide if it's funny or sad.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    You talk about monotony while we have limited resources to rank up and no matter who you are and around 15% of the champs that are 6 stars don't suck.

    If you want variety as opposed to monotony we shouldn't have 119 6 stars most of whom not worthy to take up to r3 or even R2 and we can only open 1-2 a month. The concept right now is that if a champ is good they will make them worse within 3 months to bring them down closer to the level of the average champ who is generally below average.

    They should get rid of at least half the 6 star pool and give shards back and make opening a 6 star less of a punch in the gut.


    That's literally more of the same problem. Peopke chasing after the same few options and when something comes along that challenges those common choices, they have even less to choose from.
    But here again we're forced to chase after those few options only. For anyone who crits even a slight bit, it's pray to God. When people want to R5, they rarely R5 Niche options. You want to have someone who can cover bases. Because resources aren't easy to come by. Make all champions good, and then we can talk about not chasing champs.
    There really isn't such a thing as a cure-all indefinitely in a game that is always shifting. It changes constantly. Not only content, but Champs added as well. One option might be the best for a while and change later on. That's how the game evolves.
  • arsjumarsjum Posts: 412 ★★★
    arsjum said:

    Come on guys, stop complaining about flow in T1-5. Back in the day the Adaptoid boss in monthly quest master mode, that was way too OP. Emma frost boss in a side quest, that was OP. Those needed to be toned down. Heck IMIW in arena quests needs to be looked at. After all, those are the issues that directly affect the players whose concerns are the only valid ones.

    Flow? Pfffft, it doesn't affect them directly. So, deal with it. Tt is necessary to avoid game stagnation. Otherwise, the future of the game is worrisome.

    Looks like so many of you are missing the fact that this was obviously a sarcasm. If you've been long enough in the forums to remember the times I'm referring to, you would have understood it.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,242 ★★★★★
    For the record, I'm not arguing there is nothing wrong with the Node. I didn't register either way. If this many people think it's too limiting, there's most likely truth to that.
  • Das_giDas_gi Posts: 320 ★★
    xNig said:

    Take one of the most common defenders on Flow, IMIW.

    Put him on a debuff immune node.

    Quake... can’t evade his dash.

    G99.. debuff immune, no degen, high armor, no crits.. good luck ending the fight in 3 mins

    Crossbones... high armor, no crits...

    Void.. no petrifies...

    Magik.. no power locks..

    Ghost... eat his sp3 and plasma to death..?

    Any suggestions? Lol

    Seems to me you have no idea how to use G2099 cause her damage doesn’t come from debuffs. The passive damage over 100 hits is what does all the damage and that also works on debuff immune. I’ve solo’d mojo, IM IW, dormammu and all other control champs with her already. Okay dormammu is tricky cause you might get a degen, mojo is tricky because of his easy missions cause you get the degen if you do the mission.

    There’s only a few nodes where flow global is hard and those are the debuff immune and stun immune nodes. All other nodes it’s easy asf. A charged G2099 can solo all control champs on every mini node except for magik because of her limbo but then you just let someone quake magik
  • Das_giDas_gi Posts: 320 ★★
    edited April 2020


    Today I only died to 5/65 mojo boss because of his degen and he stopped me from getting G2099’s heal and I finished him off (13% left) easily with OR by doing 1 heavy counter and just hitting his block after that
  • SeraphionSeraphion Posts: 1,496 ★★★★
    Das_gi said:

    xNig said:

    Take one of the most common defenders on Flow, IMIW.

    Put him on a debuff immune node.

    Quake... can’t evade his dash.

    G99.. debuff immune, no degen, high armor, no crits.. good luck ending the fight in 3 mins

    Crossbones... high armor, no crits...

    Void.. no petrifies...

    Magik.. no power locks..

    Ghost... eat his sp3 and plasma to death..?

    Any suggestions? Lol

    Seems to me you have no idea how to use G2099 cause her damage doesn’t come from debuffs. The passive damage over 100 hits is what does all the damage and that also works on debuff immune. I’ve solo’d mojo, IM IW, dormammu and all other control champs with her already. Okay dormammu is tricky cause you might get a degen, mojo is tricky because of his easy missions cause you get the degen if you do the mission.

    There’s only a few nodes where flow global is hard and those are the debuff immune and stun immune nodes. All other nodes it’s easy asf. A charged G2099 can solo all control champs on every mini node except for magik because of her limbo but then you just let someone quake magik
    I agree on this one. But do you think its healthy for a RNG-based game to have only 1 counter? Thats wrose than act 6.2 and almost everyone hated that.
    The point is not that there is no counter.
    The problem is that 99% of champs dont work and RNG becomes more important than skill. I think that is very bad
  • ThecurlerThecurler Posts: 840 ★★★★
    Some fights you just look and think it doesn't matter what I do, how well I play, I'm going to die here. Probably more than once if I'm unlucky.... That's poor game design imo.

    It's been said more than once but we play this game for enjoyment. Flow and to a (much) lesser extent siphon aren't enjoyable.
  • A l p h aA l p h a Posts: 540 ★★★
    Magik
    Mojo
    Guillotine 2099
    Warlock
    Claire voyant

    All these champs and more on stun immune and debuff immune are practically impossible to beat without an invulnerability boost... Which only comes into the store every 1 to 2 weeks on average and you can only buy up to 2 IF you have the loyalty...

    To get through them every war without deaths is practically impossible! Unless you are an insane quake player... Which not everyone has been lucky enough to pull a 5 star quake!

    This node is ridiculously overpowered compared to others especially in tiers 1 to 3... Its needs toning down! This global only makes wars frustrating and expensive. Not fun!
  • A l p h aA l p h a Posts: 540 ★★★
    Panicndstreets said:

    Proxima Midnight = Flow Power gain killer

    Please explain how? Im missing something?
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