**Mastery Loadouts**
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People that complete content on day 1 are part of the problem

GiuliameijGiuliameij Posts: 1,849 ★★★★
No they are not a big part, but they are still a part of the current problems when it comes to stupid nodes and crazy attack scores.
If you were to design something, and want it to last you will think up stuff people will struggle with.
If then, a majority of endgame players rush to finish the content on the first day, or in the first week they will be left with no content to do.
I`m not saying it is the right way to handle the situation. But it is in a way understandable they went this route.
If people want to complete content on day one by using a crazy amount of revives/units/money they should. However. Do understand that there is a logical explanation nodes become increasingly more crazy, attack stats skyrocket, and healthpools in normal quests come close to ROL pools. They need to find a way to slow down the whales. If they don't, the whales would have nothing to spend on, the game will not make any money, and the game will die.
I am not saying what Kabam uses as a solution is the right one.
But by simply only looking at their half of the problem doesn`t seem right.
I am no Kabam warrior, I dislike a lot of decisions that were made like the removal of the gold rewards in aq and such (which do not even affect me)

The only other solution I have to the 2 sided problem is one I saw a youtuber mentioned. Just release normal story content without too crazy of nodes and attack power. But introduce a special Challenge mode with all the crazy stuff you can come up with and give people a title for that content. Not something like cavalier that changes something. Just like a legends title, and if you must with some little perks. Whales would still spend on the content, and rush the content. But it would not hurt the smaller spenders and f2p people. They could still have fun with the 'normal' content. And the whales can show their title and get their enjoyment out of the game because they can show their dedication to this game.
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Comments

  • Notsavage19Notsavage19 Posts: 2,817 ★★★★★

    Maybe make some content where you CANNOT USE any Revives/Heals.

    It would then be just based on pure skill and strength of team as to how far you can get.
    And if your team dies, them you have to start all over and try again. And again, and again...

    Not sure where the money would come from, maybe from having to buy more Energy Refills instead of Potions. Or maybe limited number of free entrance tickets after which you would have to buy more (with Units, or ultimately money if you run out of units)

    We have a fight that's based on skill and is pass/fail, 6.2.6 champion. It's also one of the most hated fights by the community. You guys can keep asking for "skill to be rewarded" but when you get it and can't beat something, just cry about it constantly
    there's another skill based fight - 6.4 grandmaster. Everyone loves it
    But every fight can't be like the Grandmaster.

    If they were, then there would be no point in creating new characters.
  • lowlevelplayerlowlevelplayer Posts: 4,292 ★★★★★

    xNig said:

    @Worknprogress the definition of a “skill based fight” in this community is somewhat weird.

    To most, a “skill based fight” is a fight that, without the right amount of skill, cannot be passed by anyone, and is a challenging fight.

    To most aspiring members of this community, a “skill based fight” is one which is challenging that they can complete (the last part is the most important part lol).

    Why the Grandmaster fight is celebrated? Cause he’s easy. He only tests you on 3 skills, parry/block, intercept, get hit (whether this is a “skill” or not is up for debate), which arguably are the core fundamentals on which this game is built on. Dexing specials, nope, not a core skill (even a champ like RG is introduced to block the unblockable).

    So yeah, I’m hoping for more “skill based fights” like the Champion, which requires a ton of hard work, practice, and absolutely gates those without the right skill and roster out.

    I'll be the absolute last person to call myself a top tier player
    says the one in 4loki
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★

    xNig said:

    @Worknprogress the definition of a “skill based fight” in this community is somewhat weird.

    To most, a “skill based fight” is a fight that, without the right amount of skill, cannot be passed by anyone, and is a challenging fight.

    To most aspiring members of this community, a “skill based fight” is one which is challenging that they can complete (the last part is the most important part lol).

    Why the Grandmaster fight is celebrated? Cause he’s easy. He only tests you on 3 skills, parry/block, intercept, get hit (whether this is a “skill” or not is up for debate), which arguably are the core fundamentals on which this game is built on. Dexing specials, nope, not a core skill (even a champ like RG is introduced to block the unblockable).

    So yeah, I’m hoping for more “skill based fights” like the Champion, which requires a ton of hard work, practice, and absolutely gates those without the right skill and roster out.

    I'll be the absolute last person to call myself a top tier player
    says the one in 4loki
    I play with lots of top tier players, that does not necessarily mean I am one of them. I'm not saying I'm a scrub by any means but I'm not remotely on the same level as some of the people in the alliance.
  • Monk1Monk1 Posts: 745 ★★★★
    Problem is same as ever.. people who don’t have the roster (maybe have the skill) want to do all content and get annoyed cause they can’t or it costs too much. The 6.2 champion is not a hard fight, it just takes lots of practice and that costs units.

    I do think with no retreat on he was stupid, but plenty of people have passed it so it definitely not impossible
  • lowlevelplayerlowlevelplayer Posts: 4,292 ★★★★★

    Maybe make some content where you CANNOT USE any Revives/Heals.

    It would then be just based on pure skill and strength of team as to how far you can get.
    And if your team dies, them you have to start all over and try again. And again, and again...

    Not sure where the money would come from, maybe from having to buy more Energy Refills instead of Potions. Or maybe limited number of free entrance tickets after which you would have to buy more (with Units, or ultimately money if you run out of units)

    We have a fight that's based on skill and is pass/fail, 6.2.6 champion. It's also one of the most hated fights by the community. You guys can keep asking for "skill to be rewarded" but when you get it and can't beat something, just cry about it constantly
    there's another skill based fight - 6.4 grandmaster. Everyone loves it
    You can absolutely unit the grandmaster down though.
    really? how? You have to complete challenges, get him wounded......
    I don't see how you can do the fight without having at least a bit of skill. Unless you're talking about mercs......
    You don't HAVE to get him wounded it would just be an insanely long fight without doing so. You still do damage while he isn't. The only part you can't actually unit down is the last phase but that's just playing keep away for a few seconds
    the only really skill based thing in the 6.2 champion is that last 10%, which requires you to dex his special.
    Which is more skill based? the GM or the champion.
  • Thanks_D19Thanks_D19 Posts: 1,480 ★★★★

    No they are not a big part, but they are still a part of the current problems when it comes to stupid nodes and crazy attack scores.
    If you were to design something, and want it to last you will think up stuff people will struggle with.
    If then, a majority of endgame players rush to finish the content on the first day, or in the first week they will be left with no content to do.
    I`m not saying it is the right way to handle the situation. But it is in a way understandable they went this route.
    If people want to complete content on day one by using a crazy amount of revives/units/money they should. However. Do understand that there is a logical explanation nodes become increasingly more crazy, attack stats skyrocket, and healthpools in normal quests come close to ROL pools. They need to find a way to slow down the whales. If they don't, the whales would have nothing to spend on, the game will not make any money, and the game will die.
    I am not saying what Kabam uses as a solution is the right one.
    But by simply only looking at their half of the problem doesn`t seem right.
    I am no Kabam warrior, I dislike a lot of decisions that were made like the removal of the gold rewards in aq and such (which do not even affect me)

    The only other solution I have to the 2 sided problem is one I saw a youtuber mentioned. Just release normal story content without too crazy of nodes and attack power. But introduce a special Challenge mode with all the crazy stuff you can come up with and give people a title for that content. Not something like cavalier that changes something. Just like a legends title, and if you must with some little perks. Whales would still spend on the content, and rush the content. But it would not hurt the smaller spenders and f2p people. They could still have fun with the 'normal' content. And the whales can show their title and get their enjoyment out of the game because they can show their dedication to this game.

    People do content day 1 for the legends title/rewards, are you saying that no one should ever get legends rewards from anything but EQ?
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 2,281 ★★★★★

    Maybe make some content where you CANNOT USE any Revives/Heals.

    It would then be just based on pure skill and strength of team as to how far you can get.
    And if your team dies, them you have to start all over and try again. And again, and again...

    Not sure where the money would come from, maybe from having to buy more Energy Refills instead of Potions. Or maybe limited number of free entrance tickets after which you would have to buy more (with Units, or ultimately money if you run out of units)

    We have a fight that's based on skill and is pass/fail, 6.2.6 champion. It's also one of the most hated fights by the community. You guys can keep asking for "skill to be rewarded" but when you get it and can't beat something, just cry about it constantly
    there's another skill based fight - 6.4 grandmaster. Everyone loves it
    You can absolutely unit the grandmaster down though.
    really? how? You have to complete challenges, get him wounded......
    I don't see how you can do the fight without having at least a bit of skill. Unless you're talking about mercs......
    You don't HAVE to get him wounded it would just be an insanely long fight without doing so. You still do damage while he isn't. The only part you can't actually unit down is the last phase but that's just playing keep away for a few seconds
    the only really skill based thing in the 6.2 champion is that last 10%, which requires you to dex his special.
    Which is more skill based? the GM or the champion.
    Grandmaster. It tests the fundamental skills of the game.
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★

    Maybe make some content where you CANNOT USE any Revives/Heals.

    It would then be just based on pure skill and strength of team as to how far you can get.
    And if your team dies, them you have to start all over and try again. And again, and again...

    Not sure where the money would come from, maybe from having to buy more Energy Refills instead of Potions. Or maybe limited number of free entrance tickets after which you would have to buy more (with Units, or ultimately money if you run out of units)

    We have a fight that's based on skill and is pass/fail, 6.2.6 champion. It's also one of the most hated fights by the community. You guys can keep asking for "skill to be rewarded" but when you get it and can't beat something, just cry about it constantly
    there's another skill based fight - 6.4 grandmaster. Everyone loves it
    You can absolutely unit the grandmaster down though.
    really? how? You have to complete challenges, get him wounded......
    I don't see how you can do the fight without having at least a bit of skill. Unless you're talking about mercs......
    You don't HAVE to get him wounded it would just be an insanely long fight without doing so. You still do damage while he isn't. The only part you can't actually unit down is the last phase but that's just playing keep away for a few seconds
    the only really skill based thing in the 6.2 champion is that last 10%, which requires you to dex his special.
    Which is more skill based? the GM or the champion.
    Easily the champion. You'll eventually get the GM down and none of the "skills" required for the fight are particularly difficult really.

    The champion fight though after almost a year still has plenty of people roadblocked. I don't know of a single person that got to the GM and had to back out bc they couldn't beat it
  • Notsavage19Notsavage19 Posts: 2,817 ★★★★★

    Maybe make some content where you CANNOT USE any Revives/Heals.

    It would then be just based on pure skill and strength of team as to how far you can get.
    And if your team dies, them you have to start all over and try again. And again, and again...

    Not sure where the money would come from, maybe from having to buy more Energy Refills instead of Potions. Or maybe limited number of free entrance tickets after which you would have to buy more (with Units, or ultimately money if you run out of units)

    We have a fight that's based on skill and is pass/fail, 6.2.6 champion. It's also one of the most hated fights by the community. You guys can keep asking for "skill to be rewarded" but when you get it and can't beat something, just cry about it constantly
    there's another skill based fight - 6.4 grandmaster. Everyone loves it
    You can absolutely unit the grandmaster down though.
    really? how? You have to complete challenges, get him wounded......
    I don't see how you can do the fight without having at least a bit of skill. Unless you're talking about mercs......
    You don't HAVE to get him wounded it would just be an insanely long fight without doing so. You still do damage while he isn't. The only part you can't actually unit down is the last phase but that's just playing keep away for a few seconds
    the only really skill based thing in the 6.2 champion is that last 10%, which requires you to dex his special.
    Which is more skill based? the GM or the champion.
    Easily the champion. You'll eventually get the GM down and none of the "skills" required for the fight are particularly difficult really.

    The champion fight though after almost a year still has plenty of people roadblocked. I don't know of a single person that got to the GM and had to back out bc they couldn't beat it
    Exactly. I had to try 3 times before I could get the Champion down. I spent about 200 units every try.

    For the GM, it took 1 try, and I spent about 200 units as well.

    Now, of course, that's not statistically significant, because lots of factors could have influenced this.
  • plpkokplpkok Posts: 152
    Pointless discussion. People think spenders have an advantage, if not that then it is because people have bad RNG and don't have an ideal counter for a node or champion, somewhere in there is time to grind for resources and skill level.

    IMO newer players progress much faster in recent time than veteran players could back in the day. In addition there is much more content available now than back in the day so they feel they are missing out or falling behind by not being able to complete said content when they reach it. I feel they are able to reach difficult content much sooner due to resources available and they likely haven't developed a roster ro skillset to adequately handle the more difficult content.
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    plpkok said:

    Pointless discussion. People think spenders have an advantage, if not that then it is because people have bad RNG and don't have an ideal counter for a node or champion, somewhere in there is time to grind for resources and skill level.

    IMO newer players progress much faster in recent time than veteran players could back in the day. In addition there is much more content available now than back in the day so they feel they are missing out or falling behind by not being able to complete said content when they reach it. I feel they are able to reach difficult content much sooner due to resources available and they likely haven't developed a roster ro skillset to adequately handle the more difficult content.

    Pretty much how I feel.
  • Katzastrophe_Od1nKatzastrophe_Od1n Posts: 223 ★★
    i spent more units on the GM than the 6.2 champion boss...maybe i´m not good enough with the fundamentals in the game. or maybe, i didnt fully healed my champs up and that led me to more revives :/
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 2,281 ★★★★★

    Maybe make some content where you CANNOT USE any Revives/Heals.

    It would then be just based on pure skill and strength of team as to how far you can get.
    And if your team dies, them you have to start all over and try again. And again, and again...

    Not sure where the money would come from, maybe from having to buy more Energy Refills instead of Potions. Or maybe limited number of free entrance tickets after which you would have to buy more (with Units, or ultimately money if you run out of units)

    We have a fight that's based on skill and is pass/fail, 6.2.6 champion. It's also one of the most hated fights by the community. You guys can keep asking for "skill to be rewarded" but when you get it and can't beat something, just cry about it constantly
    there's another skill based fight - 6.4 grandmaster. Everyone loves it
    You can absolutely unit the grandmaster down though.
    really? how? You have to complete challenges, get him wounded......
    I don't see how you can do the fight without having at least a bit of skill. Unless you're talking about mercs......
    You don't HAVE to get him wounded it would just be an insanely long fight without doing so. You still do damage while he isn't. The only part you can't actually unit down is the last phase but that's just playing keep away for a few seconds
    the only really skill based thing in the 6.2 champion is that last 10%, which requires you to dex his special.
    Which is more skill based? the GM or the champion.
    Easily the champion. You'll eventually get the GM down and none of the "skills" required for the fight are particularly difficult really.

    The champion fight though after almost a year still has plenty of people roadblocked. I don't know of a single person that got to the GM and had to back out bc they couldn't beat it
    Exactly. I had to try 3 times before I could get the Champion down. I spent about 200 units every try.

    For the GM, it took 1 try, and I spent about 200 units as well.

    Now, of course, that's not statistically significant, because lots of factors could have influenced this.
    The Champion fight can be practiced for with dueling. Some of the ridiculous nodes make it significantly harder, but they're not required to beat him the first time.

    The Grandmaster fight is more skill based to me because if you have the skills it literally asks you to demonstrate you can beat him. I never felt robbed in the fight by stupid node foolishness or over the top damage. If I died, it was because I messed up and let my reflexes get the better of me.
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★

    Maybe make some content where you CANNOT USE any Revives/Heals.

    It would then be just based on pure skill and strength of team as to how far you can get.
    And if your team dies, them you have to start all over and try again. And again, and again...

    Not sure where the money would come from, maybe from having to buy more Energy Refills instead of Potions. Or maybe limited number of free entrance tickets after which you would have to buy more (with Units, or ultimately money if you run out of units)

    We have a fight that's based on skill and is pass/fail, 6.2.6 champion. It's also one of the most hated fights by the community. You guys can keep asking for "skill to be rewarded" but when you get it and can't beat something, just cry about it constantly
    there's another skill based fight - 6.4 grandmaster. Everyone loves it
    You can absolutely unit the grandmaster down though.
    really? how? You have to complete challenges, get him wounded......
    I don't see how you can do the fight without having at least a bit of skill. Unless you're talking about mercs......
    You don't HAVE to get him wounded it would just be an insanely long fight without doing so. You still do damage while he isn't. The only part you can't actually unit down is the last phase but that's just playing keep away for a few seconds
    the only really skill based thing in the 6.2 champion is that last 10%, which requires you to dex his special.
    Which is more skill based? the GM or the champion.
    Easily the champion. You'll eventually get the GM down and none of the "skills" required for the fight are particularly difficult really.

    The champion fight though after almost a year still has plenty of people roadblocked. I don't know of a single person that got to the GM and had to back out bc they couldn't beat it
    that just means that the champion fight is more BS. The beauty of the GM fight is that you can do it with any champ, and you don't need one or two specific counters
    It's not BS it just requires a skill that isn't one of the most basic in the game like the GM fight does. If you can't dex, block, and parry by the end of 6.4, well just quit
  • 007md92007md92 Posts: 1,381 ★★★★
    edited June 2020
    This game is also about collect all champs.
    If u take away the original fun part of this game and just shove in and get every champ. U r cornering urself to a burn out.
    Obviously...
    No doubt on their skill. But at the end of the day everyone wants diversity in roster.
    Different style animation plus minimum good damage to clear content.
    That's why seatin also bring Cyclops and rocket when he explore uncollected monthly quest. Just to have fun and enjoyment.

    Cz seriously the worst thing in this game is prestige. Sure it can be just a show of thing. But having a significant value to prestige is pushing people to
    Max out same champions twice.
    I mean i would never will ever rank up
    5 and 6 star silver surfer.
    I would happily max him out as a 5 star. Cz he is cool champ. That's it.
    It takes the fun out and makes the game itself boring
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