Punishing Entire Alliance:- is that fair gameplay?

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Comments

  • GluteusMaximusGluteusMaximus Posts: 1,409 ★★★
    Staunton said:




    This info has to be in the public domain. Kinda like being a registered esx offender.

    This would lead to allies who get war penalities with these players in their ranks being unable to complain.


    *unless it's the first time offense
  • MauledMauled Posts: 2,516 ★★★★★

    xNig said:

    Tbh, Kabam should just perm ban these cheaters and all the accounts that were accessed from the cheating device.

    This.
    Kabam don't, actually, give a toss about the fairness of the game until they ban repeat offenders permanently. If someone is going to cheat, what deterrent is a temporary ban? The vast majority of ethically broken players are just going to try the next cheat mod that comes along, and reap the benefits for a time until it's discovered. Rinse, repeat.
    Meanwhile, the big spenders that do keep this game going for all of us have to be asking "WTF Kabam?"
    You will find that there is quite a large overlap between the two. Just looking at the amount of alliances that got dropped for us to get back into P2 this season you're looking at close to 1/5 alliances having at least one confirmed cheater in the ranks. P2+ is where a huge amount of the whales reside.

    This sort of thing is what kills online games though and does need to be seriously addressed. At one point RS was roughly 60% bots and to get that number down the owners had to invest some serious money in coders to upgrade their detection systems and having active monitoring in game. With a mobile game it's probably a bit more challenging but it's something that needs serious consideration.
    ----
    If there was a permanent title that could be given to players that would help with recruitment but ultimately I'd like to think that some players would change after being burnt the first time.
  • KnightZeroKnightZero Posts: 763 ★★★
    qartweli said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    Scmex21 said:

    @Lormif I am not asking any sympathy. But its one of the shortfalls that need to fixed in the game!

    you need to find a way to fix it first. All you are doing is "they should find the cheating faster, we bear no responsibility for our alliance"
    Officers aren't people with no lives to sit and watch 30 people doing their fights every war and then analyse it to see who cheated. Yes, cheaters should be punished, but there should be a proper way for us to identify them. Not in an alliance affected by the band btw since we're legit. But it's silly to ask folks to record each and every fight as well.
    If you are in the top ranks like this then you should take reasonable precautions to make sure your team is not cheating. And no it is not silly when you are playing for those stakes. It is a reasonable ask to minimize your efforts. Then you can yourself report them. If you dont have the time to do it then dont be an officer. It is silly to ask kabam to know who all is cheating the moment they are cheating.
    People are banned in Gold 1 also. Those are your so called Top Ranks. This isn't a high stakes poker game where we're playing for a massive cash prize that you're talking about stakes. Your version of reasonable is not reasonable at all. This. Is. A. Game. Officers are there to help the alliance. But they have their own REAL lives which maybe you don't know about. Sitting and spending time to watch 30 people fight in AQ/AW and figure out whether they are cheating isn't reasonable. It is flat out nuts. Plain and simple.
    You can give the same rubbish reasoning, but there are alliances being punished without knowing they have a cheater. And at the moment, yes they are collateral for the betterment of the game which sucks, but there should be an aim to find a system where it won't happen in the future.
    i dont agree because u have no idea how the difference is
    aw planning in T1 is 4 hour work per war

    in gold 1 people have constant assigned paths and done
    I'm not telling that they are the same lol. But I'm telling that cheating has been done all across the board. Not only in Masters or in Plat 1. Even Gold alliances are affected by it. He said that if you 'want to stay at the Top'. Gold alliances aren't Top. Yet they're also affected by this and may not have known if they had a member cheating. So while the action taken currently is unfortunate and needed, there should be some method in the future that doesn't penalize everyone in the alliance. Or the person cheating gets flagged earlier so that the alliance knows they're getting screwed in the final rankings.
  • GluteusMaximusGluteusMaximus Posts: 1,409 ★★★
    Gmonkey said:

    IMO it's not fair they should ban those who used cheats definetly and not touch anyone other in the alliance .

    But if it presists that some alliance (Overall Speaking) had or has multiple cheating methods in Previous Season they should all get banned From "Alliance Seasons For an entire Season As a punishment"

    Fully disagree if you get a win due to a cheater that win is tainted. The losing team may have won and got screwed. The win should be invalidated. Sucks for the non-cheaters in the alliance, but people should not benefit from dishonest play. Kabam needs a way to flag cheaters so alliance don’t get burned, help out officers and leaders.
    fun fact: you can lose a war with cheaters as well.
    the point differential is 50k x war rating multiplier. if "winners" and "losers" get their points deducted before the final bell, it's a net result for the "legit" alliances who all get to move up.
    the gripe to have is the timing based on what map you draw based on matchups, however this only applies assuming the "cheaters" were doing so in every war which I know 100000% isn't the case.

    fun discussion!
  • To answer your question:

    Yes. It's fair to punish the entire team. You got Wins you didn't deserve which includes Shards and War Victory Crystals.

    Those resources are not being taken back which you should be LUCKY Kabam isn't doing that - it would probably be a nightmare to track anyway.

    Lick your wounds, replace the bad apples, move on and find ways suggested here by many as ways to check on people you newly recruit to ensure they are not shady. All you can do for now.
  • walkerdogwalkerdog Posts: 647 ★★★

    xNig said:

    Tbh, Kabam should just perm ban these cheaters and all the accounts that were accessed from the cheating device.

    This.
    Kabam don't, actually, give a toss about the fairness of the game until they ban repeat offenders permanently. If someone is going to cheat, what deterrent is a temporary ban? The vast majority of ethically broken players are just going to try the next cheat mod that comes along, and reap the benefits for a time until it's discovered. Rinse, repeat.
    Meanwhile, the big spenders that do keep this game going for all of us have to be asking "WTF Kabam?"
    Lol they profit from the cheating, both from people having to buy heals for close wars vs them, and any money the cheater(s)'s ally spends... then hammers after the season with 0 compensation to the victims.
  • KerneasKerneas Posts: 1,455 ★★★★
    This got me kind of divided:

    On one hand it isn't fair towards other alliances. They lost their rewards because of your members cheating, and you got up using partially unfair methods (because the cheaters pushed alliance up)

    On the other hand this is "just" a game, not a full time job, so it must be hard for leaders to manage even placement and battlegroups, and watching&checking 150+ fights each war is time consuming (even for more people), and it feels like you just can't expect 30 players to record every fight of every war and then analyze it.

    So this is kind of a moral struggle, but the probably best solution is really to drag you all down equally. It is surely the simplest one
  • OGAvengerOGAvenger Posts: 406 ★★★

    Staunton said:




    This info has to be in the public domain. Kinda like being a registered esx offender.

    This would lead to allies who get war penalities with these players in their ranks being unable to complain.


    *unless it's the first time offense
    Nah even if it is their first time. A cheater is a cheater.

    First offense: flag the account for a month
    Second offense: flag account for six months
    Third offense: perm ban

    Or even better

    First offense: flag account for 3 months
    Second offense: perm ban
  • xNigxNig Posts: 5,562 ★★★★★
    Let’s put it this way.

    If you do not penalize the entire alliance for one person (or a group) modding, then there will be no one to stop someone from buying a separate phone, download a mod on that phone, run 9 mod accounts in the same alliance to take out 9 paths + all minis + bosses, and getting undeserved rewards for his/her main account.
  • KnightZeroKnightZero Posts: 763 ★★★
    xNig said:

    Let’s put it this way.

    If you do not penalize the entire alliance for one person (or a group) modding, then there will be no one to stop someone from buying a separate phone, download a mod on that phone, run 9 mod accounts in the same alliance to take out 9 paths + all minis + bosses, and getting undeserved rewards for his/her main account.

    Flag the accounts mid season. Let the officers have a chance to kick those members out. Get a deduction in points mid season and then they have to start gaining points again to reach where they were. Or if not mid season, atleast when they find out. End of season deduction is messy if the alliance has no idea.
  • Simp44Simp44 Posts: 35
    Niceeee said:

    You just made my day!

    Niceeee said:

    You just made my day!

    Cmon dawg is you are going to make an alt atleast change your pfp
  • xNigxNig Posts: 5,562 ★★★★★
    edited October 2020

    xNig said:

    Just get them to record the fight.

    If your “boss killers” are dying in AQ map 5/6, it’ll be very suspicious

    I doubt it is that easy. I'm a leader, and i dont think i can, neither can my officers afford to watch every war's worth of footage from 30 members. You may have a lot of time on your hands ( which is why your 330k arena wins is so "easy"), but asking folks to watch hundreds of minutes of footage every war is unreasonable.
    Kabam can do this banwave mid season and help out.

    PS I wasnt affected by this, but had to call out stupid suggestions when I see it.
    I’m leading 2 alliances, 1 in P2, 1 in P4. I don’t do that, neither do my officers.

    I just make sure I have a video of that guy’s play when recruiting him. And we will wanna see screenshots of hits etc in the fight end screen. It’s as simple as that. Also, if that person is dying too frequently in AQ or has diverse performances in different aspects of the game, it has to be a red flag.

    Once that red flag is raised, then ask for video footage of that guy’s play in war, no excuses.

    Also, my 330k arena fights were culminated across 4-5 years (at the very least). No issue grinding while watching television at night.
  • Scmex21 said:

    Dear Game Team,
    If certain individuals are cheating please ban them it a fair game. But don’t punish the entire Alliance!
    We as leaders and officers have absolutely no tool to identify who is cheating and who is not. So cannot control this aspect of Alliance management.
    After Playing skillfully the entire team is stripped of two full brackets in AW. Platinum-1 to Plat2. Just not fair.
    Thanks for your consideration!
    GSB

    Being an officer of an alliance I can totally understand that
    Its not possible for us to tell weather the guy we recruit is a cheat or not
    It's fine if u ban the cheaters account rather than punishing whole alliance cause it's unintentional
  • qartweli said:

    or don’t recruit cheaters

    how do u think this is possible?
    at the very least, kick them. It’s kinda easy to tell how they’re cheating.
    Ohk tell me how do u identify the cheater who is hiding in ur Alliance without ur notice
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,346 ★★★★★

    qartweli said:

    or don’t recruit cheaters

    how do u think this is possible?
    at the very least, kick them. It’s kinda easy to tell how they’re cheating.
    Ohk tell me how do u identify the cheater who is hiding in ur Alliance without ur notice
    most upper tier alliances require recordings be sent to the bg officers, that would tell you.
  • TreininTreinin Posts: 137 ★★
    At least they did ban some players this time.

    I remember a while back (like 10-15 seasons ago) my alliance received a point deduction but nobody was banned, so we had no way to track down what had caused it.

    At least this way you can tell who it was, and you know the 28 you have left were playing cleanly. Replace the two bad seeds and move on.
  • MauledMauled Posts: 2,516 ★★★★★

    qartweli said:

    or don’t recruit cheaters

    how do u think this is possible?
    at the very least, kick them. It’s kinda easy to tell how they’re cheating.
    Ohk tell me how do u identify the cheater who is hiding in ur Alliance without ur notice
    Top tier AW is cutthroat. A single death/DC can screw your war. You’ll find players record for personal insurance - look I won the fight it’s not my fault that the server screwed me. We also like to flex, I record my fights and if I do a sweet takedown of a fight I often post it in chat, as do most of our alliance. This is why I know are clean. We had a guy who got a lot better across a season and we just watched his gameplay back across a few wars and in Act 6 and you could see a steady improvement and we felt that was reasonable. If he refused to share footage we’d have got rid to be safe.
  • Rohit_316Rohit_316 Posts: 585 ★★★
    Ok let's put it this way - What if you score no. 1 place in AW but know who the cheaters are in your ally ( in this case you're "PRETENDING" you don't know) . Will you inform Kabam about cheaters or keep the juicy rewards?

    Since you posted here i'd assume you're in a high prestige Platinum or Master ally and maybe an officer. You guys wanna keep your prestige high without compromising on rewards that comes from cheating.? Really? An officer can't be that blind that he has no clue what's going in in his ally( that coming from an officer himself).
  • pseudosanepseudosane Posts: 698 ★★★★
    xNig said:

    xNig said:

    Just get them to record the fight.

    If your “boss killers” are dying in AQ map 5/6, it’ll be very suspicious

    I doubt it is that easy. I'm a leader, and i dont think i can, neither can my officers afford to watch every war's worth of footage from 30 members. You may have a lot of time on your hands ( which is why your 330k arena wins is so "easy"), but asking folks to watch hundreds of minutes of footage every war is unreasonable.
    Kabam can do this banwave mid season and help out.

    PS I wasnt affected by this, but had to call out stupid suggestions when I see it.
    I’m leading 2 alliances, 1 in P2, 1 in P4. I don’t do that, neither do my officers.

    I just make sure I have a video of that guy’s play when recruiting him. And we will wanna see screenshots of hits etc in the fight end screen. It’s as simple as that. Also, if that person is dying too frequently in AQ or has diverse performances in different aspects of the game, it has to be a red flag.

    Once that red flag is raised, then ask for video footage of that guy’s play in war, no excuses.

    Also, my 330k arena fights were culminated across 4-5 years (at the very least). No issue grinding while watching television at night.
    Well tat does show you do have a lot of time on your hands, or you dont really" lead". I do the same, see fights once in a while.
    But your suggestion to watch recordings of fights every war, as have said a few others, is kind of stupid, when we see how much stuff has to be done in game, and other leader/officer responsibilities. It is a game, not work. Watching recordings is not a solution. You recruit based on their word, and recordings you can see, nothing more.
    My suggestion would be to do this banwave midseason so alliances can kick and re recruit. This ensures they know they do not have to burn as many items for a ranking they may not be able to possess due to docking.
  • KnightZeroKnightZero Posts: 763 ★★★
    xNig said:

    xNig said:

    Just get them to record the fight.

    If your “boss killers” are dying in AQ map 5/6, it’ll be very suspicious

    I doubt it is that easy. I'm a leader, and i dont think i can, neither can my officers afford to watch every war's worth of footage from 30 members. You may have a lot of time on your hands ( which is why your 330k arena wins is so "easy"), but asking folks to watch hundreds of minutes of footage every war is unreasonable.
    Kabam can do this banwave mid season and help out.

    PS I wasnt affected by this, but had to call out stupid suggestions when I see it.
    I just make sure I have a video of that guy’s play when recruiting him. And we will wanna see screenshots of hits etc in the fight end screen. It’s as simple as that. Also, if that person is dying too frequently in AQ or has diverse performances in different aspects of the game, it has to be a red flag.

    Once that red flag is raised, then ask for video footage of that guy’s play in war, no excuses.
    .
    People can cheat while being good at the game too. In order to get better AW rewards. AQ isn't too hard as such. It's repetitive motions that you get so used to that it's not too hard to get through without dying. So if none of the 'red flags' are raised and there is still a player who is using mods, how are officers supposed to identify?
  • danielmathdanielmath Posts: 3,030 ★★★★★
    In 4loki our leadership is very serious about cheating, to the point where we won’t let someone in if we have a doubt that they have piloted or anything. However, it’s not possible to always know what every member is doing, it’s just not. One player who got permabanned yesterday and got their alliance docked was with us like 7-8 months ago. Did he cheat while with us? I don’t know.
  • IKONIKON Posts: 675 ★★★★
    For the first time I've experienced being part of a docked ally, and it sucks. However, I don't see any other options to make the contest fair for everyone.

    I do wish though we had some indication of what the violation was, and to a lesser extent, who. You don't even know how many members violated the TOS. We're essentially forced to make decisions without complete information.
This discussion has been closed.