I say just leave him with one indestructible charge and get rid of the no retreat node. Thats it.
That's wayyyy too easy. We should get rid of the No Retreat node, but it shouldn't be 1 charge
Compared to regular map bosses he's harder than most without the indestructible charges. So leaving one proves you have the skill to dex it. Why do we need to prove it 5 times? That's why I say one indestructible charge is enough.
Because you could dex that 1 charge by luck. Doing it 5 times proves skill.
Yeah I had the skill to do it already. The only thing the made it easy was me playing it like 20 more times. That's not something to hang your hat on or to brag about. You're not the only one to beat the Champion boss. If you like it the way it is fine but I'll glady take my additional rewards after the nerf and not care who else gets an "easy" time with it.
When did I "brag about" it? When did I say I was "the only one to beat the Champion boss"? You're just putting words in my mouth just because you disagree with my statements.
I'm just saying. You could win a poker game by luck, but winning multiple takes skill.
Telling people to get better is bragging. You don't have to literally say I'm bragging to be boastful. I'm bringing you back down to earth by telling you that you aren't special for completing it. Why does everything have to be literal for you all to understand a point?
Well that's the whole point of the Champion boss. You have to be good to get through it. I'm saying that if you're not good enough to beat the Champion, the rest of Act 6 might be a little too hard for you.
Bringing me "back down to earth". Yeah, okay. I've never said I was special for completing it. I just said that if you can't complete it, it might be because of your skill.
And to answer your question, literal is blunt and straight-forward. It's efficient.
Regardless you're going to lose this fight. I called Kabam out 10 months ago about the Champion boss and said they will be forced to change it and they will. So all the talk of "get better", or this proves that you can't finish the rest of act 6 doesn't matter at all.
Also literal means "taking words in their usual or most basic sense without metaphor or allegory." What I said makes complete sense so making up stuff doesn't work when you can take 2 secs to google.
I never said I didn't want to change anything about the boss. Learn to read.
And is "taking words in their usual or most basic sense without metaphor or allegory" blunt and straight-forward? Yes it is, so I don't really get what you're trying to say here. Like Kabam, you have to work on your communication skills.
If you don't mind a change than what are you arguing? Whatever change they make is going to make it incredibly easier even if they just change it to 3 charges. So "too easy" is your argument lol. I don't see the point.
You can have the last word. Regardless they're making the change and my point still stands.
No, I'm in favor of changing the fight, but not the actual mechanics of the fight. I'm all for taking out nodes like NR and Spite, as well as lowering the attack values. I just don't want to see them lower the Indestructible count to 1, as you suggested.
Never said I didn't want change. I just said I didn't want change to the mechanics. Hey, next time you could try to read my comments before you respond. Really goes to prove Ru Paul right.
I think the fix is to actually add another path. One that goes straight up to a portal, and portals you straight to the champion, for a total of 9 energy (and breaks all the linked nodes).
Yes the champion might be a really difficult fight, but if you could practice as much as you want for a low energy cost, I think you solve 95% of the issues with it.
The 6.2 Champion needs these changes: 1.Indestructible buffs need to drop to 3 or reduce dramatically his block penetration so more champions other than CAIW can survive the fight. 2.No retreat needs to be removed at all, since the only two viable counters (BWCV and MS), are not available anymore. The node needs to go along with the changes, that’s the fair for the upcoming players of the fight. Only these two easy fixes can turn the fight from bs to just difficult.
I think the fix is to actually add another path. One that goes straight up to a portal, and portals you straight to the champion, for a total of 9 energy (and breaks all the linked nodes).
Yes the champion might be a really difficult fight, but if you could practice as much as you want for a low energy cost, I think you solve 95% of the issues with it.
Also get rid of no retreat.
This is quite interesting. I actually enjoyed the fights on the easiest path.
I would do it by replacing the boss' spot with a key. Then another path is added and connected to the starting node that has a gate for the key, which leads to a portal straight to the map boss. This way, the progress to get the key is not lost and the summoner can fight the map boss immediately when they need to clear the map and at full strength. Also, 100% completion wouldn't require players to fight the boss in every run. Needless to say, map and chapter rewards will still only be given once the boss is cleared.
Of course this probably isn't the best fix or whatever, just an idea that I find interesting. If this were done, I'm most probably good with having the boss node the way it is now.
This is my honest and frank assessment of the The Champion fight:
- Did the initial clear of 6.2.6 mid 2019 just to open up act 6.3 so I could do my legends run for that, I had to spend close to a thousand units just fighting the “easy path” Champion. - However, I revisited The Champion earlier this year when 6.4 just dropped just so I could go for a 100% push for my 6.4 legends. When doing so I was able to get one shots on The Champion now with way more experience, practice and skill than I had back then. The plain vanilla champion fight with his 5 charges really isn’t that difficult at all, seeing as how I can consistently get one shots when I’m doing guides or testing the viability of new champs. It’s all about practice guys, none of us started out as mcoc pro players from the get-go. You just need to buckle down and invest the time and effort to get better. Countless others have already paid their dues against this boss, and I don’t see why the status quo shouldn’t hold true moving forward. - In conclusion I would like to unequivocally state that the state of the “base” Champion boss is just fine, maybe just remove the no retreat node if it helps the less experienced players in the community, but keep everything else intact. That’s what made the whole fight fun and challenging in the first place. This is what end game content should be like and why we as players derive satisfaction from overcoming these obstacles. - P.S. my only major complaint about 6.2 was the senseless inclusion of gates that added a needless extra layer of restriction to our rosters for that particular chapter.
It took me a lot of practice and an absurd amount of time and units to beat this boss (I'm free to play)... Not to mention having to rank up specific champions for this task. I can't wait for the sweet compensation package when they nerf him. My personal opinion leave him as he is.
is he really 81K lol .. i literally just paid attention to it ... wow i feel even better now having already beat him LOL ... but yeah fix this fight .. i think ultimately removing the 5 charges down to 2 or prevent the insane block damage ... who knows .. something has to be done though for those who will ultimately fight him.
I’d say, Give a persistent charge while fighting last 10% of the champion. This way we can carry a prowess charge even if we get knocked out at 3 prowess. So that we don’t stress our wallets while starting from scratch.
Keep the charges the way it is. If forces you to play perfectly.
Reduce his attack rating, and remove or change some of the linked nodes, such as No Retreat.
In the last 10%, maybe make it so that if you intercept, you gain 1 perfect block passive, lasting until he hits your block, but then any blocked hits that aren't perfect cause him to go unstoppable for 3 seconds. I feel like people shouldn't rely on blocking the special attacks and then just dexing the last hit.
That will be another road block for many. Not everyone is a perfect player so everyone should be able to finish the fight. Those who are very good players should be able to do it cheaply for others, it should cost more but still should be do-able. Issue with current fight is that no more how much units you throw at it, you have no way to defeating him unless you play perfectly.
Just like the Grandmaster. It's a roadblock for a reason. Those two fights are the only ones where you can't use auto fight and units to power through. I'm sorry, but if you're not able to play perfectly, it's a sign that you might want to get better before you tackle him and the rest of Act 6. It's a way of weeding out the bad players from the better players.
It is a road block for a reason. The devs decided Act 6 was end game content, because of a coincidence. At the time it was released, only the top tier players were in a position to do it. But a year from now, two years from now, are we saying that only players with top tier skills should be allowed to do the story arc content of the game past Act 5?
That's an arbitrary decision, that says what kind of game you want to play (or make). I would argue that the core progressional story arc content should be doable by even below average players eventually, provided they play long enough to have a roster reasonable to acquire before doing the content. There should be a place for fights like the Champion and 6.2 Sinister, it is the same place we put fights like the Infinity Thanos or Lagacy's Sym Supreme: in optional content. But in my opinion, that place isn't in the core story arc content.
Having said that, I don't think it is necessarily true that players have to have a way to simply grind past it slowly. The all or nothing aspect of the fight does have a good side: if you can't spend past it, you shouldn't even try to spend past it. I would prefer content that straight up prevents people from spending on it, so they don't try to and then complain the game is paywalled. What I want is a fight that players can learn to beat, and whether it takes a day to learn to beat it or it takes six months to learn to beat it is a detail. Right now the fight isn't structured in a way that is straight forward for players to learn to fight him. There's a substantial energy and fight path to reach him, and even if the path is easy it makes it difficult to practice with repetition without spending on revives. And dueling only helps to a point: I did that but it didn't tell me everything about the fight. It didn't tell me how much margin for damage I had to block or Parry. It didn't tell me how aggressively or passively the Champion was going to fight in that specific fight. It didn't tell me how hard it would be to extend the fight long enough to get the right evades in. All those things took actually fighting in the fight to learn.
There's an "essence" to the fight I would want to keep, where players were encouraged to learn to fight it and not spend past it. But the hurdle to overcome has to be lower, and the path to get there has to be shallower, for that fight to be appropriate for core story arc content in my opinion.
Keep the charges the way it is. If forces you to play perfectly.
Reduce his attack rating, and remove or change some of the linked nodes, such as No Retreat.
In the last 10%, maybe make it so that if you intercept, you gain 1 perfect block passive, lasting until he hits your block, but then any blocked hits that aren't perfect cause him to go unstoppable for 3 seconds. I feel like people shouldn't rely on blocking the special attacks and then just dexing the last hit.
That will be another road block for many. Not everyone is a perfect player so everyone should be able to finish the fight. Those who are very good players should be able to do it cheaply for others, it should cost more but still should be do-able. Issue with current fight is that no more how much units you throw at it, you have no way to defeating him unless you play perfectly.
Just like the Grandmaster. It's a roadblock for a reason. Those two fights are the only ones where you can't use auto fight and units to power through. I'm sorry, but if you're not able to play perfectly, it's a sign that you might want to get better before you tackle him and the rest of Act 6. It's a way of weeding out the bad players from the better players.
Keep the charges the way it is. If forces you to play perfectly.
Reduce his attack rating, and remove or change some of the linked nodes, such as No Retreat.
In the last 10%, maybe make it so that if you intercept, you gain 1 perfect block passive, lasting until he hits your block, but then any blocked hits that aren't perfect cause him to go unstoppable for 3 seconds. I feel like people shouldn't rely on blocking the special attacks and then just dexing the last hit.
That will be another road block for many. Not everyone is a perfect player so everyone should be able to finish the fight. Those who are very good players should be able to do it cheaply for others, it should cost more but still should be do-able. Issue with current fight is that no more how much units you throw at it, you have no way to defeating him unless you play perfectly.
Just like the Grandmaster. It's a roadblock for a reason. Those two fights are the only ones where you can't use auto fight and units to power through. I'm sorry, but if you're not able to play perfectly, it's a sign that you might want to get better before you tackle him and the rest of Act 6. It's a way of weeding out the bad players from the better players.
Yeah right you and some handfull of skill players got to play and enjoy the game, rest are made to pay to kabam and create a future base or content for you guys. The guys who spent lot of money and fill up the kabam capital get stuck at champion boss and you guys enjoy more stuff that kabam creates with money of these spenders. You should respect bro that if most of the community is stuck then it means something. What if many of players stop playing then what will be the future of this game. Will you be able to enjoy more content?
Keep the charges the way it is. If forces you to play perfectly.
Reduce his attack rating, and remove or change some of the linked nodes, such as No Retreat.
In the last 10%, maybe make it so that if you intercept, you gain 1 perfect block passive, lasting until he hits your block, but then any blocked hits that aren't perfect cause him to go unstoppable for 3 seconds. I feel like people shouldn't rely on blocking the special attacks and then just dexing the last hit.
That will be another road block for many. Not everyone is a perfect player so everyone should be able to finish the fight. Those who are very good players should be able to do it cheaply for others, it should cost more but still should be do-able. Issue with current fight is that no more how much units you throw at it, you have no way to defeating him unless you play perfectly.
Just like the Grandmaster. It's a roadblock for a reason. Those two fights are the only ones where you can't use auto fight and units to power through. I'm sorry, but if you're not able to play perfectly, it's a sign that you might want to get better before you tackle him and the rest of Act 6. It's a way of weeding out the bad players from the better players.
It is a road block for a reason. The devs decided Act 6 was end game content, because of a coincidence. At the time it was released, only the top tier players were in a position to do it. But a year from now, two years from now, are we saying that only players with top tier skills should be allowed to do the story arc content of the game past Act 5?
That's an arbitrary decision, that says what kind of game you want to play (or make). I would argue that the core progressional story arc content should be doable by even below average players eventually, provided they play long enough to have a roster reasonable to acquire before doing the content. There should be a place for fights like the Champion and 6.2 Sinister, it is the same place we put fights like the Infinity Thanos or Lagacy's Sym Supreme: in optional content. But in my opinion, that place isn't in the core story arc content.
Having said that, I don't think it is necessarily true that players have to have a way to simply grind past it slowly. The all or nothing aspect of the fight does have a good side: if you can't spend past it, you shouldn't even try to spend past it. I would prefer content that straight up prevents people from spending on it, so they don't try to and then complain the game is paywalled. What I want is a fight that players can learn to beat, and whether it takes a day to learn to beat it or it takes six months to learn to beat it is a detail. Right now the fight isn't structured in a way that is straight forward for players to learn to fight him. There's a substantial energy and fight path to reach him, and even if the path is easy it makes it difficult to practice with repetition without spending on revives. And dueling only helps to a point: I did that but it didn't tell me everything about the fight. It didn't tell me how much margin for damage I had to block or Parry. It didn't tell me how aggressively or passively the Champion was going to fight in that specific fight. It didn't tell me how hard it would be to extend the fight long enough to get the right evades in. All those things took actually fighting in the fight to learn.
There's an "essence" to the fight I would want to keep, where players were encouraged to learn to fight it and not spend past it. But the hurdle to overcome has to be lower, and the path to get there has to be shallower, for that fight to be appropriate for core story arc content in my opinion.
@DNA3000 Agree with this. I can appreciate the fact that they want people to enter the fight with a 'specific set of skills' to have a chance to defeat it. Since the fight is so unique, developing those skills will take practice. The best way to make that possible is to remove the preceding humps on the way to the boss fight.
If you've read my latest comment, this was the 'fix' that I'd personally prefer. What I'm actually doing right now is running through the middle/easy path and getting to him with one or two deaths (consistently at least one between Magik and Void), which I reckon would be down to zero if I do this for at least a couple more weeks. Problem is, even then, I don't think I'd have a guaranteed shot at defeating him without still having to spend several hundred to over a thousand of units. Even with all the practice from the earlier defenders, I wouldn't be able to reasonably imprint the boss fight into my muscle memory because each of the preceding fights were of a completely different design than the boss.
Just my honest opinion, defeating the boss takes the proper champs to fight him with (re:current issue with RNG) and lots of practice in this specific fight (generally impractical because of having to fight through, albeit relatively easy, defenders before getting to him).
This is my honest and frank assessment of the The Champion fight:
- Did the initial clear of 6.2.6 mid 2019 just to open up act 6.3 so I could do my legends run for that, I had to spend close to a thousand units just fighting the “easy path” Champion. - However, I revisited The Champion earlier this year when 6.4 just dropped just so I could go for a 100% push for my 6.4 legends. When doing so I was able to get one shots on The Champion now with way more experience, practice and skill than I had back then. The plain vanilla champion fight with his 5 charges really isn’t that difficult at all, seeing as how I can consistently get one shots when I’m doing guides or testing the viability of new champs. It’s all about practice guys, none of us started out as mcoc pro players from the get-go. You just need to buckle down and invest the time and effort to get better. Countless others have already paid their dues against this boss, and I don’t see why the status quo shouldn’t hold true moving forward. - In conclusion I would like to unequivocally state that the state of the “base” Champion boss is just fine, maybe just remove the no retreat node if it helps the less experienced players in the community, but keep everything else intact. That’s what made the whole fight fun and challenging in the first place. This is what end game content should be like and why we as players derive satisfaction from overcoming these obstacles. - P.S. my only major complaint about 6.2 was the senseless inclusion of gates that added a needless extra layer of restriction to our rosters for that particular chapter.
It doesn’t matter if my initial opinion gets downvoted, I stand by what I said and I back it up with my own video of me taking down the base form of The Champion with just pure skill. End game content is difficult for a reason, it’s supposed to represent the zenith of achievement in a game. Therefore, being endgame there’s no rush to complete it if you currently lack the proper roster or technique to take on the fight. I won’t be as crass as saying “git good” but just like with any challenge in life, if you put your heart and soul into it, it can be overcome with proper preparation.
My video where I one shot The Champion is below, works each and every time.
Git güd and don’t revive threads, especially after the Champion has been nerfed. 3 special dodges isn’t that hard. Practice with duels and low level (high BP) champs.
Comments
Reduce block penetration
Make the charges on the “easy path” up to 3
Delete no retreat
Never said I didn't want change. I just said I didn't want change to the mechanics. Hey, next time you could try to read my comments before you respond. Really goes to prove Ru Paul right.
Sorry, better luck next time.
Yes the champion might be a really difficult fight, but if you could practice as much as you want for a low energy cost, I think you solve 95% of the issues with it.
Also get rid of no retreat.
1.Indestructible buffs need to drop to 3 or reduce dramatically his block penetration so more champions other than CAIW can survive the fight.
2.No retreat needs to be removed at all, since the only two viable counters (BWCV and MS), are not available anymore. The node needs to go along with the changes, that’s the fair for the upcoming players of the fight.
Only these two easy fixes can turn the fight from bs to just difficult.
I would do it by replacing the boss' spot with a key. Then another path is added and connected to the starting node that has a gate for the key, which leads to a portal straight to the map boss. This way, the progress to get the key is not lost and the summoner can fight the map boss immediately when they need to clear the map and at full strength. Also, 100% completion wouldn't require players to fight the boss in every run. Needless to say, map and chapter rewards will still only be given once the boss is cleared.
Of course this probably isn't the best fix or whatever, just an idea that I find interesting. If this were done, I'm most probably good with having the boss node the way it is now.
- Did the initial clear of 6.2.6 mid 2019 just to open up act 6.3 so I could do my legends run for that, I had to spend close to a thousand units just fighting the “easy path” Champion.
- However, I revisited The Champion earlier this year when 6.4 just dropped just so I could go for a 100% push for my 6.4 legends. When doing so I was able to get one shots on The Champion now with way more experience, practice and skill than I had back then. The plain vanilla champion fight with his 5 charges really isn’t that difficult at all, seeing as how I can consistently get one shots when I’m doing guides or testing the viability of new champs. It’s all about practice guys, none of us started out as mcoc pro players from the get-go. You just need to buckle down and invest the time and effort to get better. Countless others have already paid their dues against this boss, and I don’t see why the status quo shouldn’t hold true moving forward.
- In conclusion I would like to unequivocally state that the state of the “base” Champion boss is just fine, maybe just remove the no retreat node if it helps the less experienced players in the community, but keep everything else intact. That’s what made the whole fight fun and challenging in the first place. This is what end game content should be like and why we as players derive satisfaction from overcoming these obstacles.
- P.S. my only major complaint about 6.2 was the senseless inclusion of gates that added a needless extra layer of restriction to our rosters for that particular chapter.
I’ve done all of act 6 and this is the worst fight in the entire Act.
Make the charges persistent from fight to fight. Get rid of class gates for the entire chapter. Reduce attack. Change no retreat to something else.
That's an arbitrary decision, that says what kind of game you want to play (or make). I would argue that the core progressional story arc content should be doable by even below average players eventually, provided they play long enough to have a roster reasonable to acquire before doing the content. There should be a place for fights like the Champion and 6.2 Sinister, it is the same place we put fights like the Infinity Thanos or Lagacy's Sym Supreme: in optional content. But in my opinion, that place isn't in the core story arc content.
Having said that, I don't think it is necessarily true that players have to have a way to simply grind past it slowly. The all or nothing aspect of the fight does have a good side: if you can't spend past it, you shouldn't even try to spend past it. I would prefer content that straight up prevents people from spending on it, so they don't try to and then complain the game is paywalled. What I want is a fight that players can learn to beat, and whether it takes a day to learn to beat it or it takes six months to learn to beat it is a detail. Right now the fight isn't structured in a way that is straight forward for players to learn to fight him. There's a substantial energy and fight path to reach him, and even if the path is easy it makes it difficult to practice with repetition without spending on revives. And dueling only helps to a point: I did that but it didn't tell me everything about the fight. It didn't tell me how much margin for damage I had to block or Parry. It didn't tell me how aggressively or passively the Champion was going to fight in that specific fight. It didn't tell me how hard it would be to extend the fight long enough to get the right evades in. All those things took actually fighting in the fight to learn.
There's an "essence" to the fight I would want to keep, where players were encouraged to learn to fight it and not spend past it. But the hurdle to overcome has to be lower, and the path to get there has to be shallower, for that fight to be appropriate for core story arc content in my opinion.
Agree with this. I can appreciate the fact that they want people to enter the fight with a 'specific set of skills' to have a chance to defeat it. Since the fight is so unique, developing those skills will take practice. The best way to make that possible is to remove the preceding humps on the way to the boss fight.
If you've read my latest comment, this was the 'fix' that I'd personally prefer. What I'm actually doing right now is running through the middle/easy path and getting to him with one or two deaths (consistently at least one between Magik and Void), which I reckon would be down to zero if I do this for at least a couple more weeks. Problem is, even then, I don't think I'd have a guaranteed shot at defeating him without still having to spend several hundred to over a thousand of units. Even with all the practice from the earlier defenders, I wouldn't be able to reasonably imprint the boss fight into my muscle memory because each of the preceding fights were of a completely different design than the boss.
Just my honest opinion, defeating the boss takes the proper champs to fight him with (re:current issue with RNG) and lots of practice in this specific fight (generally impractical because of having to fight through, albeit relatively easy, defenders before getting to him).
My video where I one shot The Champion is below, works each and every time.