Hood Changes - Discussion [Merged Threads]

Grim7787 · February 2021

Mjolnir888 said:

Agresssor said:

While invisible incoming attacks have a 45% chance to miss and non contact attack 90% > 120% chance to miss for all attacks and you can intercept like ghost.

Heavy attack refreshes shock, stagger, hex,
You can only rely on this 2-3 times

I never relied on his invisibility. It should be 100% miss all the time like every other invisibility out there. That wss one thing I always found silly.

Relying on that chance could get you in trouble real quick, lol

Grim7787 · February 2021

Would be perfectly fine if it was 100% miss vs projectiles only. But that chance left room to get F’d up, so I’d evade myself anyway.

GroundedWisdom · February 2021

zeezee57 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BitterSteel said:

GroundedWisdom said:

ThatGuyYouSaw235 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

JoshKosh557 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Pulyaman said:

GroundedWisdom said:

BitterSteel said:

DNA3000 said:

Drenlin said:
Wow, change notes have been out for 30 minutes and everyone already knows exactly how this change is going to effect him? Let the release happen, use the champ, then condemn it if it’s warranted
I think the most important aspect of the Hood change is being overlooked, and it is something that while Kam mentions at the end of his video, I don't think he made the direct case for. If I understand Kam's video correctly, Kam makes the case that the devs took away too much relative to what they added back, and that's problematic for the players who invested in Hood for those things the devs took away. From that perspective, maybe we all should wait and see if that's true.

However, I believe that is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if Hood is good or bad. It doesn't matter if the devs added enough, or not enough. The real problem is that Hood's update reflects a toxic design philosophy, and I don't use that word lightly. The philosophy is basically this: we can take away anything we want, as long as we put more stuff back.

This game doesn't work that way, and in fact is moving farther and farther away from that. Usefulness is not linear: we don't have champs that are 8s that are better than 7s. We have champs that are useful in this fight, and champs that are useful in that fight. We have champs good in some situations and not in others. And we have a content design philosophy magnifying those differences in higher tier content. You need a roster with a wide range of capabilities to do all the content coming out.

We no longer live in a world where the devs can turn a champ that is a 4 into a champ that is a 7 and walk away happy. Instead we live in a world where Hood had very specific buff control capabilities that were severely weakened in some aspects, and then had other stuff added. We cannot simply say the stuff added is "better" than the stuff removed, because for the players who were relying upon Hood to do those things that were removed, the champ no longer functions as desired in their specific roster.

This is already problematic in a game where champion acquisition is random, so you have to deal with the hand you're dealt. But this game is also a game in which the resources to rank up champs to combat effective levels relative to the rest of the roster is also limited and expensive. Every single player faces a unique challenge when ranking up roster, unique due to the fact that everyone's roster is in effect randomly generated. For some people, Hood was their best options for certain things, and they invested in Hood because of that fact. Those investments are now lost. This is true even if Hood is now better at other things, because there's no guarantee that those players *needed* those other things.

Maybe Hood is better for a new player picking him up today, and maybe Hood is not better. But that's irrelevant, or should be irrelevant. Those players are getting a better Hood on the backs of other players getting a worse Hood and losing resources they spent in good faith on a champ that changed for no reason.

i say "for no reason" because if there was a need for Hood to lose the utility he lost, that would be one thing. Hypothetically speaking, if losing that utility was the *only way* for Hood to become more relevant to the playerbase at large, then this change would be awful but necessary, and we should all accept that some things are awful but necessary. But it is impossible to make the case that the loss of utility was necessary, because the devs could have added less powerful versions of their new mechanics and kept his original utility, as they don't conflict.

If preservation of player investment was an actual priority with the developers, Hood could have been updated in a way that made him better for everyone.

Instead, the devs played a numbers game. Improve Hood for the masses, and if enough people like it, it doesn't matter how much damage occurs to the people already invested in him.

Whether you like the Hood update or not, whether you think the Hood update makes him more valuable or not, no matter what playtesting eventually shows, I think every player should consider the Hood update dangerous, because it says the devs don't care about pre-existing player investment. They only care about what players will invest in champions in the future. And if the devs continue to update champions with this philosophy, they will eventually take something away you like and for no reason.

I understand there's some grey area here. Most game changes, most champion updates, take something away. Some of that is inevitable. The question is whether what was taken away is sufficiently useful and important that the preservation of investment is important. But I think the Hood change is unambiguously far over the line. There is no question whatsoever that he had important use cases, and there's no question some of them were taken away. Hood is not a grey area case.
totally agreed.
I think it's also pertinent whether the champion is actually getting ranked up for use of the ability that's removed. When buffing Yellowjacket, i doubt many people would have complained if his stun after power sting expired was removed in place of some new abilities. Nobody is ranking up yellowjacket for that ability. People are ranking up Hood for his buff control, and that is a useful ability. Like you said, people are filling a buff control champ hole in their roster and Hood is much much worse for that role.

There should never be a situation when an ability is removed in favour for new ability (which is arguably just damage in this case)

Imagine, taking this to it's extreme, that Kabam decided Ghost needed a rework (would never happen of course, but bear with), they decided that they would remove ghost's phasing and in place they would give her a chunky fury buff that triggered on special attacks. People ranked up ghost because of what she does, phasing and big damage along with a host of utilities. Removing the phasing dramatically changes her as a champion and the extra damage does not replace what she was ranked up for. Removing some of Hood's buff control capabilities changes him as a champion. You cannot argue that just because he got some more damage it's a justifiable change.

And if you say these situations are different, yeah they are, ghost won't be changed and she won't have her phasing removed, but where do you draw the line of Kabam removing a champions utility in place of adding a bit more damage?
Therein lies a fundamental problem. I'm not entirely sure they're updating Champions to become preferred Rank-Ups. They're updating them to be more useful in the current game climate than they were previously. Certain balancing measures need to be done in these cases because it's not just about adding more. The effects of the Abilities combined need to be considered. So I'm not totally against the idea of having to remove existing Abilities overall. However, I do see it as problematic when it's overly used because it becomes more of a swap-out situation than an update. If that's the case, I'd rather have less buffs a year, and more siginficant reworks. In terms of taking away utility to add something else, that can sometimes happen though. Champs are being changed. There's no guarantee they'll be used for what they were used for before.
There in lies the problem. You cannot just change the champions core ability without taking into consideration the people who have ranked him up for they ability. If I rank up mysterio for poison immunity and kabam just updated him saying that mysterio should not have poison immunity because that makes him too op, that's a problem. These reworks were supposed to make a champion better, I am not sure it does in this case.

Considering all the champions before this were desperately in need to changing, I am not sure why kabam picked hood and why they changed him like this.
There's no guarantee that Champs will do the same thing they used to when you change them.
I was waiting for u to show up and defend this
I'm not defending anything. Haven't said I like it or hate it. I haven't even seen him used yet. What I'm talking about is the idea that all they have to do is add more. That's a horrible way to balance a game.
Yeah but when buffing a champion, you shouldn't take away the main things that made players use them. Thats like turning a nice beef burger and taking away the beef patty and replacing it with more lettuce. It's not as good as it was.
How can you tell if it's as good as it was if you haven't even seen it play out yet? For that matter, good or bad isn't always measured by doing the same things with it. That's kind of the point that I'm making that seems pretty obvious. I'm not sure how people automatically think that changing a Champ will result in the same uses. In fact, that somewhat contradicts the point of changing them.
When a core piece of utility to a champ is taken away, it doesn't particularly matter how much damage is added (within reason of course). You could give Hood one of the highest value damages on his sp2, but he still couldnt face vision aarkus in any high tier situation and come out alive.

The point is, nowadays, damage and utility are the two measures that value how good a champ is. Hood was always measured by his weaker damage and really great buff control. Every week or two there was an underrated champion thread on the forum and Hood always popped up, because so many players decided to rank him up for his utility in controlling buffs. They relied on him to control buffs, everything else he did was a bonus.

There's a reason not as many people are worried about the invisibility change. People in general arent opposed to abilities changing, his invisibility was not a core piece of why Hood is useful, it was an occasional nice to have. If this was the sole change nobody would mind too much, but taking away Hood's entire identity as a champion? He IS a buff control champ. There's a reason why people don't consider Juggernaut or Sasquatch a buff control champ, stagger is not reliable unless it stacks.

Thats why we can tell already that this change is not good. I do not need another damage dealer in my roster, I have CGR, Ghost, Professor X, Falcon and more at r3. What i do need, is more utility, i was hoping Hood could be that utility, but now he will be a pretty good damage dealer, and in general, that is less useful to people.

And even if Hood comes out of this update with really great damage and people start using him, a few people will be saying oh well why does it matter, his damage is really great now?

The reason it still matters is what about next time kabam decide to upgrade a champion that people are using for a purpose and remove their ability to deal with that purpose? What if they don't get the damage numbers right? They don't always hit the mark with buffs. If Hood gets a YJ sort of damage buff would people be saying at least he still has damage? No, kabam would have taken a really usable utility champion, removed a huge chunk of the utility that people rank him up for and said here you go have some mediocre damage.

Champions like Ronan, Hawkeye, Dr Voodoo, Hulk Ragnarok, Night Thrasher, Rogue etc come to mind. Not the top tier champions necessary, but definitely still ranked up today for specific uses, whether it's high buff, power control, immunities, passive degen, evade or whatever. These are champions similar in value to Hood, Angela and Massacre and I really hope when their time comes for an update that Kabam won't just throw damage on Glad Hulk, and nerf his face me because it's too powerful. People rank him for that ability, not his damage. They might not need damage, but they wanted the ability that Kabam decided to get rid of.
He's not even on my mind as an option for Buff control. Not with the options we have these days. He's sitting idle.
This is absolutely hilarious coming from the guy constantly commenting about how stupid it is to not rank who you have and wait for those "God tier" champions and always saying how every champ has some use, now when people who do just that are upset that the champion they like and ranked for a use is having that use taken away its "well he's sitting idle because there's better champs for that use". Every time I go to click disagree on your comments it always ends up and LOL because they're so comically bad.

What are you going on about? I said he wasn't my first thought for Buff control. I encourage people to make the most the Rosters they have, absolutely. I never said anything about making better choices when they're available. My point was against the idea that you can ONLY Rank the same ones. I have options.

Mad_Titan_Thanos · February 2021

Anonymous84 said:

The reason why

I never said you could post that

Legendary_Poey · February 2021

Wow where did all the hood players come from, even if they gave hood his fate seal back I still wouldn't use him.

Texas_11 · February 2021

Mad_Titan_Thanos said:

Anonymous84 said:

The reason why
I never said you could post that

I hate when when people doctor up chats. Clearly this wasn’t you.

BitterSteel · February 2021

Legendary_Poey said:
Wow where did all the hood players come from, even if they gave hood his fate seal back I still wouldn't use him.

I don’t even play hood too often and I hate the precedent it sets that kabam can change a core use of a champion and call it a buff. I’m not too keen on some of my other champs being changed

Texas_11 · February 2021

Masterpuff said:

Anonymous84 said:

The reason why
Wow, how kind of you. Post something someone didnt ask you to. Not cool.

Seriously. We all know Kabam waits until
Things go live anyway. Dude is a 🐴 🕳

Agresssor · February 2021

Masterpuff said:

Anonymous84 said:

The reason why
Wow, how kind of you. Post something someone didnt ask you to. Not cool.

Imagine if Kabam kicks Katy out of content creator program :DD

Texas_11 · February 2021

Agresssor said:

Masterpuff said:

Anonymous84 said:

The reason why
Wow, how kind of you. Post something someone didnt ask you to. Not cool.
Imagine if Kabam kicks Katy out of content creator program :DD

That’s not a real message just doctored up.

GroundedWisdom · February 2021

Texas_11 said:

Agresssor said:

Masterpuff said:

Anonymous84 said:

The reason why
Wow, how kind of you. Post something someone didnt ask you to. Not cool.
Imagine if Kabam kicks Katy out of content creator program :DD
That’s not a real message just doctored up.

Well it doesn't help that the person's first response was they didn't give permission to share that. Lol.

Texas_11 · February 2021

GroundedWisdom said:

Texas_11 said:

Agresssor said:

Masterpuff said:

Anonymous84 said:

The reason why
Wow, how kind of you. Post something someone didnt ask you to. Not cool.
Imagine if Kabam kicks Katy out of content creator program :DD
That’s not a real message just doctored up.
Well it doesn't help that the person's first response was they didn't give permission to share that. Lol.

That’s not even him, his account was hacked! By the same people who doctored that note ha ha .

MavRCK_ · February 2021

There are some glaring, obvious, logical issues with the changes to Hood - perhaps easiest to understand is the incoming miss mechanic which won't allow for consistent miss of multi-hit attacks. Like why add RNG to this mechanic? The consequences is players are not going to use it. It's not a good thing to do. It's such a ridiculously obvious way to make the character useless outside of normal EQ using a 5* or 6* hood. /s lol

Are there groups / teams assigned to each character update? There's some serious variation in the consistency of updates to characters - some updates make the characters viable and some updates are terrible. Why is there this inconsistency? Why invest the time and effort to make changes that are obviously not going to be successful.

I feel at times the narrative in MCOC is Trumpian.. it's going to be great.. trust me.. going to make Hood great again! Make Hood great again! Make Hood great again!

/smh

J0eySn0w · February 2021

I was never a Hood user though I have him unranked and duped as a 5star. I checked his abilities and was surprised about how powerful his sp2 is. Now with his new "update or buff", he look similar but a definitely different champ now for sure.
I'm not sure how I feel about it. If he was coming out as a new champ, definitely a new addition to the game would loved to use him but as a rework it's doesn't feel right for the current users.

Question: Couldn't they, Kabam have reworked him and still kept his core utility? Would it have made him overpowered, how OP to be clear? Like Scarlet Witch OP level that she couldn't join the 5star collection?

Question: What if all that Hood needed was numbers and stats upgrade? Will it have made him a more solid addition to the game that current users will be super excited, and newer users will be happy to pull and unranked Hoods' will be eating some resources?

Let's see what happens.
Oh, and I'm still waiting for DDHK's regen ability change.

Agresssor · February 2021

Crimson8399 · February 2021

Why no response mods?

Mr_Platypus · February 2021

Crimson8399 said:
Why no response mods?

Weekend.
Don’t worry they’ll be here on Monday to tell you all about how you’ve overreacted and you couldn’t possibly be able to judge something that isn’t released yet even though that’s been proven false countless times.

Agresssor · February 2021

ThatGuyYouSaw235 · February 2021

Anonymous84 said:

The reason why

The guy literally asked you not to share this outside of discord you muppet.

Lmao you even made a throwaway because you knew that you'd be screwed if you did this on your main

BitterSteel · February 2021

Crimson8399 said:
Why no response mods?

It’s the weekend probably

ThatGuyYouSaw235 · February 2021

BitterSteel said:

Crimson8399 said:
Why no response mods?
It’s the weekend probably

And yet the had the time to take down one of my posts lmao

Nigelthornberry · February 2021

BitterSteel said:

Crimson8399 said:
Why no response mods?
It’s the weekend probably

They took down 3 of my messages today in the blink of an eye

Scopeotoe987 · February 2021

This is a new low, the radio silence now is stunning. People are rightfully upset.

BuffBeast · February 2021

I don’t even see as to how he’d be way too OP. It’s not like they’re forced to give him Sasquatch level damage. They just need to give him enough damage so that he can finish fights at a reasonable pace.

BitterSteel · February 2021

ThatGuyYouSaw235 said:

BitterSteel said:

Crimson8399 said:
Why no response mods?
It’s the weekend probably
And yet the had the time to take down one of my posts lmao

Nigelthornberry said:

BitterSteel said:

Crimson8399 said:
Why no response mods?
It’s the weekend probably
They took down 3 of my messages today in the blink of an eye

Different teams, different authority

KILLMФИGЕЯ · February 2021

Guys, they won’t change hood back lol
Daredevil Hell’s Kitchen, immortal hulk, Yellowjacket... Everyone cried to kabam saying don’t let these go live, make the change before release lol months later and guess what, no changes and these champions still aren’t used by most of the community (besides immortal hulk, fun rank up but mainly useless IMO)

Aleor · February 2021

Speedro420 said:
I feel like they took one of the easiest champions in the game to improve and ruined it. Just increase his damage is all that was needed. No new mechanics, bullets or any of that stuff. Just slightly more damage was all that was needed.

His invisibility is mostly useless imo, could've take it away, and I bet people would've been fine. Or rework it to be ghost like, holding block sucks. Instead they take away the only good thing he had

Hood Changes - Discussion [Merged Threads]

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