**Mastery Loadouts**
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Thoughts about the Arena Changes [Merged Threads]

24567…15

Comments

  • Xva23Xva23 Posts: 500 ★★★
    I feel most cavalier players are focusing on 6*s, so it would not have been too problematic to have the 6* basic, with the top 10% getting the 5* basic version. Would feel a bit more rewarding, imo. I'll hold off on any other judgment till I try out the arena
  • TheTalentsTheTalents Posts: 2,254 ★★★★★
    I'll wait and see what the new arena looks like. I gave up being a consistent arena grinder 3 years ago so for me this is just a nice change regardless. I have the roster to grind if I so choose but I will never spend 3 days in the arena going for the top again so this all about milestones for me at most.
  • FloschkaFloschka Posts: 41 ★
    Pulyaman said:


    Unless you are focused on getting the 6 star or 5 star, i would be more worried on how the milestones are scaled. My experience is kabam tends to take something away for balance. We lost beginner difficulty and the 135 units when we got cav eq and units in uc difficulty. What I do want to see is a ridiculous number of milestones to get the 540 units. Right now, I easily get the 535 units per cycle if I want to. I don't run summoner trials always since there are no boosts for 2 stars. Hopefully I can get the same after the arena rework.

    And that is my point, at least someone gets it lol.
  • TheTalentsTheTalents Posts: 2,254 ★★★★★
    Worknprogress said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Worknprogress said:

    DNA3000 said:

    shadow_lurker22 said:

    People simply grinding for a 5* are going to have to compete with whales grinding for the 6*. I don't understand how Kabam thought this was a good idea.

    Who do you think they are competing against now? Right now only a small number of people even attempt to go for the 5* featured. Everyone else just stops when they are safely past the 1-5% mark (about 22 million). There is a gigantic drop off in scoring from 301 to 1-5%. In the new arena there will be 500 spots for either 5* or 6* featured. How many people right now are not going for the featured 5*, but would go for the featured 6*? I'm guessing not a lot. Even so, there will still be more people getting the 5* featured than before (400 vs 300).

    On top of that, there's the basic arena. Right now 300 people get the featured 5* every cycle. In the new arenas 1000 people will be getting either the 5* or the 6* featured or basic. Do you think there's 700 people sitting on the sidelines now capable of grinding for a 6* champion but just not bothering to even attempt to get the 5* now? That seems unlikely to me.

    If you had any shot at all at getting the 5* featured now, you'll still have a shot at getting either the 5* or 6* featured or the 5* or 6* basic. There's so many more opportunities across both arenas, and no huge reservoir of players capable of competing for those spots. My guess is this will bring *some* players out of the woodwork, but probably not 700 more on top of the 300 that have already been grinding away.

    What will be really interesting to see is how the jockeying between arenas goes. If you think you won't make top 100 in the featured, do you shift to go for the 6* basic? How does that shifting affect the 5* featured scores? Does that make the 5* featured a little easier to get? What will the cut off be for the 5* basic?
    I don't think this is necessarily true. 5* featured cutoffs have been quite low since the change to how many people get the champ. I think this has a lot to do with both the increase in champs rewarded but also that 5*s are now longer the most relevant rarity at the top end of the game.

    I'm guessing being able to get new 6*s through arena will bring back a lot of accounts (I say accounts not players bc we all know plenty will be using arena mercs) that have been ignoring these arenas for quite a while. That influx of players pushing in that arena and going for considerably higher scores for the 6* than are currently being put up for the 5* could potentially push the cutoff for the 5* considerably higher IMO. That has the possibility of raising cutoffs outside the realistic abilities of some people that are currently able to get the featured 5*.

    This is all just potential and guesses obviously, but I just don't think it's as black and white as saying if you're able to compete for the 5* now, you'll be able to compete for the 5/6* in the new arena.
    As I said, my guess is this will bring some players out of the woodwork, but probably not 700 more on top of the 300 that have already been grinding away.

    I should expand on this logic. Arena grinders quickly figure out at least some general idea of where scores will land. They aren't always right, but that's irrelevant: the important thing is that most arena grinders *think* they know approximately where scores will land.

    There's going to be 100 spots for 6* champs in each arena, 200 total. The people actually competing for those spots are going to figure out, fairly quickly, what the cut of score for champs is going to be, roughly. Everyone who thinks they have a shot at the cutoff will go for it. Everyone who doesn't will not even try. Those people are now confronted with basically the same choice they have now: go for 5*, or just shoot for 1-5% (if you can't even get 1-5% now, you are irrelevant to the cut of scores for the new arenas).

    If there's going to be 100 spots, I don't expect more than 150 people actually shooting for it. There's almost always going to be that heartbreaking guy that finishes 101 or 102, but there is simply not going to be 200 people with super high scores. We know this because of how the arenas work now. Number 105 might try again harder next time. Number 198 is not going to try harder, he's going to figure it is not worth it and either try less hard for the 5*, or not even try at all and just grab the top 1-5% rank reward (this is a bit of an oversimplification: #198 might try harder next time, but he or she is only going to try harder so many times before they realize it is hopeless and give up, at least temporarily).

    The vast overwhelming majority of people who will be willing to settle for 5* in the new arenas would be shooting for them now. It is illogical to assume there's a lot of people who don't want to put in 50 million for the 5* today, but would be willing to put in 50 million for the 5* once 6* champs are also added. As long as there are less than 300 such lunatics that exist, it the overall impact will be for 5* champs to be slightly easier to get in the new configuration.

    Incidentally, I got Silver Centurion for 31.6 million in round two. He went for over 40 million in round one. There's lots of potential reasons for this, but the theory that makes the most sense that I've heard is that ArenaKnight posted scores late for round one, which means a lot of people did not have any idea what he went for in round one. Without that information, many people simply decided to sit out round two because they didn't have a good target to aim for. And all it takes is literally a couple dozen people to sit out for the cut off to plummet, because just under those people is no one else. Almost no one aims for high thirties when that's overkill for 1-5% but not generally enough for a new champ. That "depletion zone" is why I think we are unlikely to see a lot more than the 100 6* spots shooting for higher scores. A little more than that, but not a lot more. People know, or at least think they know, what to shoot for and when to not try. When the herd is wildly wrong, you get wonky low scores.

    (Why did I score 31.6 million, when no one should be at that time? I was doing a scoring experiment. It was a complete coincidence I scored exceptionally high at the exact moment less than the normal group of players shot for the champ.)
    I think you're underestimating the number of accounts that will be brought back into the fold just based on what I've seen in my last couple of years being pretty competitive in AQ ranks. Certainly any prestige shifting champ will likely have a massive influx of people going for them, unless I'm also underestimating how many people are just willing to roll with the increased drop rates to cav crystals.

    Again, I'm aware this is all speculation but I still don't see this change as being particularly good for your average player at all.
    New milestones won't be easily obtainable with the removal of smaller arenas that already loses a huge advantage for arena grinders. For people like me who may just run one arena and could careless about getting a new champ this is a welcomed change.

    There is no way an average player will be able to compete moving forward but that would happen for any 6 star arena being made available. So I think the average player has had their flowers for a good year plus now with the previous changes to arena. The game is shifting towards end gamers a gain and it is certainly a welcomed change on my part.
  • GlazzyBearGlazzyBear Posts: 132 ★★
    This sounds great. I was burnt out of grinding arena and now it sounds like I can save myself a lot of time getting units from them.
  • TheTalentsTheTalents Posts: 2,254 ★★★★★
    Pulyaman said:

    TheTalents said:

    Worknprogress said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Worknprogress said:

    DNA3000 said:

    shadow_lurker22 said:

    People simply grinding for a 5* are going to have to compete with whales grinding for the 6*. I don't understand how Kabam thought this was a good idea.

    Who do you think they are competing against now? Right now only a small number of people even attempt to go for the 5* featured. Everyone else just stops when they are safely past the 1-5% mark (about 22 million). There is a gigantic drop off in scoring from 301 to 1-5%. In the new arena there will be 500 spots for either 5* or 6* featured. How many people right now are not going for the featured 5*, but would go for the featured 6*? I'm guessing not a lot. Even so, there will still be more people getting the 5* featured than before (400 vs 300).

    On top of that, there's the basic arena. Right now 300 people get the featured 5* every cycle. In the new arenas 1000 people will be getting either the 5* or the 6* featured or basic. Do you think there's 700 people sitting on the sidelines now capable of grinding for a 6* champion but just not bothering to even attempt to get the 5* now? That seems unlikely to me.

    If you had any shot at all at getting the 5* featured now, you'll still have a shot at getting either the 5* or 6* featured or the 5* or 6* basic. There's so many more opportunities across both arenas, and no huge reservoir of players capable of competing for those spots. My guess is this will bring *some* players out of the woodwork, but probably not 700 more on top of the 300 that have already been grinding away.

    What will be really interesting to see is how the jockeying between arenas goes. If you think you won't make top 100 in the featured, do you shift to go for the 6* basic? How does that shifting affect the 5* featured scores? Does that make the 5* featured a little easier to get? What will the cut off be for the 5* basic?
    I don't think this is necessarily true. 5* featured cutoffs have been quite low since the change to how many people get the champ. I think this has a lot to do with both the increase in champs rewarded but also that 5*s are now longer the most relevant rarity at the top end of the game.

    I'm guessing being able to get new 6*s through arena will bring back a lot of accounts (I say accounts not players bc we all know plenty will be using arena mercs) that have been ignoring these arenas for quite a while. That influx of players pushing in that arena and going for considerably higher scores for the 6* than are currently being put up for the 5* could potentially push the cutoff for the 5* considerably higher IMO. That has the possibility of raising cutoffs outside the realistic abilities of some people that are currently able to get the featured 5*.

    This is all just potential and guesses obviously, but I just don't think it's as black and white as saying if you're able to compete for the 5* now, you'll be able to compete for the 5/6* in the new arena.
    As I said, my guess is this will bring some players out of the woodwork, but probably not 700 more on top of the 300 that have already been grinding away.

    I should expand on this logic. Arena grinders quickly figure out at least some general idea of where scores will land. They aren't always right, but that's irrelevant: the important thing is that most arena grinders *think* they know approximately where scores will land.

    There's going to be 100 spots for 6* champs in each arena, 200 total. The people actually competing for those spots are going to figure out, fairly quickly, what the cut of score for champs is going to be, roughly. Everyone who thinks they have a shot at the cutoff will go for it. Everyone who doesn't will not even try. Those people are now confronted with basically the same choice they have now: go for 5*, or just shoot for 1-5% (if you can't even get 1-5% now, you are irrelevant to the cut of scores for the new arenas).

    If there's going to be 100 spots, I don't expect more than 150 people actually shooting for it. There's almost always going to be that heartbreaking guy that finishes 101 or 102, but there is simply not going to be 200 people with super high scores. We know this because of how the arenas work now. Number 105 might try again harder next time. Number 198 is not going to try harder, he's going to figure it is not worth it and either try less hard for the 5*, or not even try at all and just grab the top 1-5% rank reward (this is a bit of an oversimplification: #198 might try harder next time, but he or she is only going to try harder so many times before they realize it is hopeless and give up, at least temporarily).

    The vast overwhelming majority of people who will be willing to settle for 5* in the new arenas would be shooting for them now. It is illogical to assume there's a lot of people who don't want to put in 50 million for the 5* today, but would be willing to put in 50 million for the 5* once 6* champs are also added. As long as there are less than 300 such lunatics that exist, it the overall impact will be for 5* champs to be slightly easier to get in the new configuration.

    Incidentally, I got Silver Centurion for 31.6 million in round two. He went for over 40 million in round one. There's lots of potential reasons for this, but the theory that makes the most sense that I've heard is that ArenaKnight posted scores late for round one, which means a lot of people did not have any idea what he went for in round one. Without that information, many people simply decided to sit out round two because they didn't have a good target to aim for. And all it takes is literally a couple dozen people to sit out for the cut off to plummet, because just under those people is no one else. Almost no one aims for high thirties when that's overkill for 1-5% but not generally enough for a new champ. That "depletion zone" is why I think we are unlikely to see a lot more than the 100 6* spots shooting for higher scores. A little more than that, but not a lot more. People know, or at least think they know, what to shoot for and when to not try. When the herd is wildly wrong, you get wonky low scores.

    (Why did I score 31.6 million, when no one should be at that time? I was doing a scoring experiment. It was a complete coincidence I scored exceptionally high at the exact moment less than the normal group of players shot for the champ.)
    I think you're underestimating the number of accounts that will be brought back into the fold just based on what I've seen in my last couple of years being pretty competitive in AQ ranks. Certainly any prestige shifting champ will likely have a massive influx of people going for them, unless I'm also underestimating how many people are just willing to roll with the increased drop rates to cav crystals.

    Again, I'm aware this is all speculation but I still don't see this change as being particularly good for your average player at all.
    New milestones won't be easily obtainable with the removal of smaller arenas that already loses a huge advantage for arena grinders. For people like me who may just run one arena and could careless about getting a new champ this is a welcomed change.

    There is no way an average player will be able to compete moving forward but that would happen for any 6 star arena being made available. So I think the average player has had their flowers for a good year plus now with the previous changes to arena. The game is shifting towards end gamers a gain and it is certainly a welcomed change on my part.
    I did not understand what you were saying? Are you saying the new change in arena could be an advantage for endgamers or average grinders. Because you say "the average player has had their flowers for a good year plus now". What does this mean?
    For people like me who are completely FTP and grind arena every week, the change won't make a difference in terms of getting a new champ since I don't go for new 5 stars or even new 4 stars. But, I was able to get all the milestones pretty easily. With this change and there being 6 star basic and featured arena, the milestones are the key for me. I could easily use only my 6 stars in 5 star featured and 5 stars in 4 star featured to get every milestone in both the arenas. I hope I could do the same again with 6 star featured and 6 star basic with 6 stars and 5 stars respectively.
    Yeah, my bad if it was confusing. I was trying to make your point that the arena grind has been easy for FTP guys who stack units for awhile now and this change will make it harder based on how high the milestones will become. So yes FTP has been pretty much been catered to since the drop of Throne breaker and well before that. You can tell by the shift on the forums to "get gud" and now its "too easy." Too easy leans on the FTP side obviously if that makes more sense.
  • PulyamanPulyaman Posts: 2,365 ★★★★★
    TheTalents said:

    Pulyaman said:

    TheTalents said:

    Worknprogress said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Worknprogress said:

    DNA3000 said:

    shadow_lurker22 said:

    People simply grinding for a 5* are going to have to compete with whales grinding for the 6*. I don't understand how Kabam thought this was a good idea.

    Who do you think they are competing against now? Right now only a small number of people even attempt to go for the 5* featured. Everyone else just stops when they are safely past the 1-5% mark (about 22 million). There is a gigantic drop off in scoring from 301 to 1-5%. In the new arena there will be 500 spots for either 5* or 6* featured. How many people right now are not going for the featured 5*, but would go for the featured 6*? I'm guessing not a lot. Even so, there will still be more people getting the 5* featured than before (400 vs 300).

    On top of that, there's the basic arena. Right now 300 people get the featured 5* every cycle. In the new arenas 1000 people will be getting either the 5* or the 6* featured or basic. Do you think there's 700 people sitting on the sidelines now capable of grinding for a 6* champion but just not bothering to even attempt to get the 5* now? That seems unlikely to me.

    If you had any shot at all at getting the 5* featured now, you'll still have a shot at getting either the 5* or 6* featured or the 5* or 6* basic. There's so many more opportunities across both arenas, and no huge reservoir of players capable of competing for those spots. My guess is this will bring *some* players out of the woodwork, but probably not 700 more on top of the 300 that have already been grinding away.

    What will be really interesting to see is how the jockeying between arenas goes. If you think you won't make top 100 in the featured, do you shift to go for the 6* basic? How does that shifting affect the 5* featured scores? Does that make the 5* featured a little easier to get? What will the cut off be for the 5* basic?
    I don't think this is necessarily true. 5* featured cutoffs have been quite low since the change to how many people get the champ. I think this has a lot to do with both the increase in champs rewarded but also that 5*s are now longer the most relevant rarity at the top end of the game.

    I'm guessing being able to get new 6*s through arena will bring back a lot of accounts (I say accounts not players bc we all know plenty will be using arena mercs) that have been ignoring these arenas for quite a while. That influx of players pushing in that arena and going for considerably higher scores for the 6* than are currently being put up for the 5* could potentially push the cutoff for the 5* considerably higher IMO. That has the possibility of raising cutoffs outside the realistic abilities of some people that are currently able to get the featured 5*.

    This is all just potential and guesses obviously, but I just don't think it's as black and white as saying if you're able to compete for the 5* now, you'll be able to compete for the 5/6* in the new arena.
    As I said, my guess is this will bring some players out of the woodwork, but probably not 700 more on top of the 300 that have already been grinding away.

    I should expand on this logic. Arena grinders quickly figure out at least some general idea of where scores will land. They aren't always right, but that's irrelevant: the important thing is that most arena grinders *think* they know approximately where scores will land.

    There's going to be 100 spots for 6* champs in each arena, 200 total. The people actually competing for those spots are going to figure out, fairly quickly, what the cut of score for champs is going to be, roughly. Everyone who thinks they have a shot at the cutoff will go for it. Everyone who doesn't will not even try. Those people are now confronted with basically the same choice they have now: go for 5*, or just shoot for 1-5% (if you can't even get 1-5% now, you are irrelevant to the cut of scores for the new arenas).

    If there's going to be 100 spots, I don't expect more than 150 people actually shooting for it. There's almost always going to be that heartbreaking guy that finishes 101 or 102, but there is simply not going to be 200 people with super high scores. We know this because of how the arenas work now. Number 105 might try again harder next time. Number 198 is not going to try harder, he's going to figure it is not worth it and either try less hard for the 5*, or not even try at all and just grab the top 1-5% rank reward (this is a bit of an oversimplification: #198 might try harder next time, but he or she is only going to try harder so many times before they realize it is hopeless and give up, at least temporarily).

    The vast overwhelming majority of people who will be willing to settle for 5* in the new arenas would be shooting for them now. It is illogical to assume there's a lot of people who don't want to put in 50 million for the 5* today, but would be willing to put in 50 million for the 5* once 6* champs are also added. As long as there are less than 300 such lunatics that exist, it the overall impact will be for 5* champs to be slightly easier to get in the new configuration.

    Incidentally, I got Silver Centurion for 31.6 million in round two. He went for over 40 million in round one. There's lots of potential reasons for this, but the theory that makes the most sense that I've heard is that ArenaKnight posted scores late for round one, which means a lot of people did not have any idea what he went for in round one. Without that information, many people simply decided to sit out round two because they didn't have a good target to aim for. And all it takes is literally a couple dozen people to sit out for the cut off to plummet, because just under those people is no one else. Almost no one aims for high thirties when that's overkill for 1-5% but not generally enough for a new champ. That "depletion zone" is why I think we are unlikely to see a lot more than the 100 6* spots shooting for higher scores. A little more than that, but not a lot more. People know, or at least think they know, what to shoot for and when to not try. When the herd is wildly wrong, you get wonky low scores.

    (Why did I score 31.6 million, when no one should be at that time? I was doing a scoring experiment. It was a complete coincidence I scored exceptionally high at the exact moment less than the normal group of players shot for the champ.)
    I think you're underestimating the number of accounts that will be brought back into the fold just based on what I've seen in my last couple of years being pretty competitive in AQ ranks. Certainly any prestige shifting champ will likely have a massive influx of people going for them, unless I'm also underestimating how many people are just willing to roll with the increased drop rates to cav crystals.

    Again, I'm aware this is all speculation but I still don't see this change as being particularly good for your average player at all.
    New milestones won't be easily obtainable with the removal of smaller arenas that already loses a huge advantage for arena grinders. For people like me who may just run one arena and could careless about getting a new champ this is a welcomed change.

    There is no way an average player will be able to compete moving forward but that would happen for any 6 star arena being made available. So I think the average player has had their flowers for a good year plus now with the previous changes to arena. The game is shifting towards end gamers a gain and it is certainly a welcomed change on my part.
    I did not understand what you were saying? Are you saying the new change in arena could be an advantage for endgamers or average grinders. Because you say "the average player has had their flowers for a good year plus now". What does this mean?
    For people like me who are completely FTP and grind arena every week, the change won't make a difference in terms of getting a new champ since I don't go for new 5 stars or even new 4 stars. But, I was able to get all the milestones pretty easily. With this change and there being 6 star basic and featured arena, the milestones are the key for me. I could easily use only my 6 stars in 5 star featured and 5 stars in 4 star featured to get every milestone in both the arenas. I hope I could do the same again with 6 star featured and 6 star basic with 6 stars and 5 stars respectively.
    Yeah, my bad if it was confusing. I was trying to make your point that the arena grind has been easy for FTP guys who stack units for awhile now and this change will make it harder based on how high the milestones will become. So yes FTP has been pretty much been catered to since the drop of Throne breaker and well before that. You can tell by the shift on the forums to "get gud" and now its "too easy." Too easy leans on the FTP side obviously if that makes more sense.
    I don't understand how you can say FTP have been catered to since the drop of TB deals. The unit only deals for Cav was one the worst for Cyber monday which allowed me to skip them and go for abyss completion and Act 6 exploration. Even after those, unit deals have been nothing too great. Regarding the grind in arena, I have a 51 6* champs which allow me to score 12 mill points in 4 rounds, not every FTP can do that.

    Again, are you saying that because FTP have more units, they say content is too easy? I did not get that part. No one likes to spend units to revive. Content has become easier, carina's challenge is the only one that has forced me to spend revives after act 6 and V1. So, that has nothing to do with the FTP crowd and more with the direction of content Kabam has taken.
  • Khaos369Khaos369 Posts: 13 ★
    Pulyaman said:

    Khaos369 said:

    I watched one of lilacs videos on this and that has me a bit concerned. Always up for more improvements to arena, but I worry about mercs and whales. Mercs are all over the arena, so who knows what it’ll be like with the update. For years they have plagued the arena and if that’s a problem now, (if nothing really changes) it will be in the future. Maybe I’d be more optimistic if some whales hadn’t got slaps on the wrist over the years concerning cheating, but yeah. Also, they can now just dump a huge amount of units into the 6* featured arena to guarantee they get the champ so the 100 cutoff seems very small.

    Unless you are focused on getting the 6 star or 5 star, i would be more worried on how the milestones are scaled. My experience is kabam tends to take something away for balance. We lost beginner difficulty and the 135 units when we got cav eq and units in uc difficulty. What I do want to see is a ridiculous number of milestones to get the 540 units. Right now, I easily get the 535 units per cycle if I want to. I don't run summoner trials always since there are no boosts for 2 stars. Hopefully I can get the same after the arena rework.
    Yeah, scaling it properly is whats needed to compensate for them merging the arenas. The game and arena is very time consuming and can easily cause burnout over time , so there’s no need to make it even worse.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,236 ★★★★★
    TheTalents said:

    Worknprogress said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Worknprogress said:

    DNA3000 said:

    shadow_lurker22 said:

    People simply grinding for a 5* are going to have to compete with whales grinding for the 6*. I don't understand how Kabam thought this was a good idea.

    Who do you think they are competing against now? Right now only a small number of people even attempt to go for the 5* featured. Everyone else just stops when they are safely past the 1-5% mark (about 22 million). There is a gigantic drop off in scoring from 301 to 1-5%. In the new arena there will be 500 spots for either 5* or 6* featured. How many people right now are not going for the featured 5*, but would go for the featured 6*? I'm guessing not a lot. Even so, there will still be more people getting the 5* featured than before (400 vs 300).

    On top of that, there's the basic arena. Right now 300 people get the featured 5* every cycle. In the new arenas 1000 people will be getting either the 5* or the 6* featured or basic. Do you think there's 700 people sitting on the sidelines now capable of grinding for a 6* champion but just not bothering to even attempt to get the 5* now? That seems unlikely to me.

    If you had any shot at all at getting the 5* featured now, you'll still have a shot at getting either the 5* or 6* featured or the 5* or 6* basic. There's so many more opportunities across both arenas, and no huge reservoir of players capable of competing for those spots. My guess is this will bring *some* players out of the woodwork, but probably not 700 more on top of the 300 that have already been grinding away.

    What will be really interesting to see is how the jockeying between arenas goes. If you think you won't make top 100 in the featured, do you shift to go for the 6* basic? How does that shifting affect the 5* featured scores? Does that make the 5* featured a little easier to get? What will the cut off be for the 5* basic?
    I don't think this is necessarily true. 5* featured cutoffs have been quite low since the change to how many people get the champ. I think this has a lot to do with both the increase in champs rewarded but also that 5*s are now longer the most relevant rarity at the top end of the game.

    I'm guessing being able to get new 6*s through arena will bring back a lot of accounts (I say accounts not players bc we all know plenty will be using arena mercs) that have been ignoring these arenas for quite a while. That influx of players pushing in that arena and going for considerably higher scores for the 6* than are currently being put up for the 5* could potentially push the cutoff for the 5* considerably higher IMO. That has the possibility of raising cutoffs outside the realistic abilities of some people that are currently able to get the featured 5*.

    This is all just potential and guesses obviously, but I just don't think it's as black and white as saying if you're able to compete for the 5* now, you'll be able to compete for the 5/6* in the new arena.
    As I said, my guess is this will bring some players out of the woodwork, but probably not 700 more on top of the 300 that have already been grinding away.

    I should expand on this logic. Arena grinders quickly figure out at least some general idea of where scores will land. They aren't always right, but that's irrelevant: the important thing is that most arena grinders *think* they know approximately where scores will land.

    There's going to be 100 spots for 6* champs in each arena, 200 total. The people actually competing for those spots are going to figure out, fairly quickly, what the cut of score for champs is going to be, roughly. Everyone who thinks they have a shot at the cutoff will go for it. Everyone who doesn't will not even try. Those people are now confronted with basically the same choice they have now: go for 5*, or just shoot for 1-5% (if you can't even get 1-5% now, you are irrelevant to the cut of scores for the new arenas).

    If there's going to be 100 spots, I don't expect more than 150 people actually shooting for it. There's almost always going to be that heartbreaking guy that finishes 101 or 102, but there is simply not going to be 200 people with super high scores. We know this because of how the arenas work now. Number 105 might try again harder next time. Number 198 is not going to try harder, he's going to figure it is not worth it and either try less hard for the 5*, or not even try at all and just grab the top 1-5% rank reward (this is a bit of an oversimplification: #198 might try harder next time, but he or she is only going to try harder so many times before they realize it is hopeless and give up, at least temporarily).

    The vast overwhelming majority of people who will be willing to settle for 5* in the new arenas would be shooting for them now. It is illogical to assume there's a lot of people who don't want to put in 50 million for the 5* today, but would be willing to put in 50 million for the 5* once 6* champs are also added. As long as there are less than 300 such lunatics that exist, it the overall impact will be for 5* champs to be slightly easier to get in the new configuration.

    Incidentally, I got Silver Centurion for 31.6 million in round two. He went for over 40 million in round one. There's lots of potential reasons for this, but the theory that makes the most sense that I've heard is that ArenaKnight posted scores late for round one, which means a lot of people did not have any idea what he went for in round one. Without that information, many people simply decided to sit out round two because they didn't have a good target to aim for. And all it takes is literally a couple dozen people to sit out for the cut off to plummet, because just under those people is no one else. Almost no one aims for high thirties when that's overkill for 1-5% but not generally enough for a new champ. That "depletion zone" is why I think we are unlikely to see a lot more than the 100 6* spots shooting for higher scores. A little more than that, but not a lot more. People know, or at least think they know, what to shoot for and when to not try. When the herd is wildly wrong, you get wonky low scores.

    (Why did I score 31.6 million, when no one should be at that time? I was doing a scoring experiment. It was a complete coincidence I scored exceptionally high at the exact moment less than the normal group of players shot for the champ.)
    I think you're underestimating the number of accounts that will be brought back into the fold just based on what I've seen in my last couple of years being pretty competitive in AQ ranks. Certainly any prestige shifting champ will likely have a massive influx of people going for them, unless I'm also underestimating how many people are just willing to roll with the increased drop rates to cav crystals.

    Again, I'm aware this is all speculation but I still don't see this change as being particularly good for your average player at all.
    New milestones won't be easily obtainable with the removal of smaller arenas that already loses a huge advantage for arena grinders. For people like me who may just run one arena and could careless about getting a new champ this is a welcomed change.

    There is no way an average player will be able to compete moving forward but that would happen for any 6 star arena being made available. So I think the average player has had their flowers for a good year plus now with the previous changes to arena. The game is shifting towards end gamers a gain and it is certainly a welcomed change on my part.
    There's no way an average Player would be able to compete either way. You have two subsects of Players who Grind. Those who do it casually, for Milestones and the like, and those who compete. The Arena is, and has always been, a competition of (Roster + Effort) × Time. Those who typically Rank are those with either the greatest Rosters, an abundance of Units to refresh, or both. Most typically both. There tends to be a similar demographic that earns Champs, and it's not as accessible for people in the middle. Doable, I suppose. With enough Units. However, they're not really going to keep up because of the simple fact that their Rosters aren't as wide. One of the things about the Arena is that progress increases as Rosters do. Meaning more Champs, higher Ranks, more Rarities, more Points. People do better the more they do it and the more they expand their Roster.
  • TheTalentsTheTalents Posts: 2,254 ★★★★★
    Pulyaman said:

    TheTalents said:

    Pulyaman said:

    TheTalents said:

    Worknprogress said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Worknprogress said:

    DNA3000 said:

    shadow_lurker22 said:

    People simply grinding for a 5* are going to have to compete with whales grinding for the 6*. I don't understand how Kabam thought this was a good idea.

    Who do you think they are competing against now? Right now only a small number of people even attempt to go for the 5* featured. Everyone else just stops when they are safely past the 1-5% mark (about 22 million). There is a gigantic drop off in scoring from 301 to 1-5%. In the new arena there will be 500 spots for either 5* or 6* featured. How many people right now are not going for the featured 5*, but would go for the featured 6*? I'm guessing not a lot. Even so, there will still be more people getting the 5* featured than before (400 vs 300).

    On top of that, there's the basic arena. Right now 300 people get the featured 5* every cycle. In the new arenas 1000 people will be getting either the 5* or the 6* featured or basic. Do you think there's 700 people sitting on the sidelines now capable of grinding for a 6* champion but just not bothering to even attempt to get the 5* now? That seems unlikely to me.

    If you had any shot at all at getting the 5* featured now, you'll still have a shot at getting either the 5* or 6* featured or the 5* or 6* basic. There's so many more opportunities across both arenas, and no huge reservoir of players capable of competing for those spots. My guess is this will bring *some* players out of the woodwork, but probably not 700 more on top of the 300 that have already been grinding away.

    What will be really interesting to see is how the jockeying between arenas goes. If you think you won't make top 100 in the featured, do you shift to go for the 6* basic? How does that shifting affect the 5* featured scores? Does that make the 5* featured a little easier to get? What will the cut off be for the 5* basic?
    I don't think this is necessarily true. 5* featured cutoffs have been quite low since the change to how many people get the champ. I think this has a lot to do with both the increase in champs rewarded but also that 5*s are now longer the most relevant rarity at the top end of the game.

    I'm guessing being able to get new 6*s through arena will bring back a lot of accounts (I say accounts not players bc we all know plenty will be using arena mercs) that have been ignoring these arenas for quite a while. That influx of players pushing in that arena and going for considerably higher scores for the 6* than are currently being put up for the 5* could potentially push the cutoff for the 5* considerably higher IMO. That has the possibility of raising cutoffs outside the realistic abilities of some people that are currently able to get the featured 5*.

    This is all just potential and guesses obviously, but I just don't think it's as black and white as saying if you're able to compete for the 5* now, you'll be able to compete for the 5/6* in the new arena.
    As I said, my guess is this will bring some players out of the woodwork, but probably not 700 more on top of the 300 that have already been grinding away.

    I should expand on this logic. Arena grinders quickly figure out at least some general idea of where scores will land. They aren't always right, but that's irrelevant: the important thing is that most arena grinders *think* they know approximately where scores will land.

    There's going to be 100 spots for 6* champs in each arena, 200 total. The people actually competing for those spots are going to figure out, fairly quickly, what the cut of score for champs is going to be, roughly. Everyone who thinks they have a shot at the cutoff will go for it. Everyone who doesn't will not even try. Those people are now confronted with basically the same choice they have now: go for 5*, or just shoot for 1-5% (if you can't even get 1-5% now, you are irrelevant to the cut of scores for the new arenas).

    If there's going to be 100 spots, I don't expect more than 150 people actually shooting for it. There's almost always going to be that heartbreaking guy that finishes 101 or 102, but there is simply not going to be 200 people with super high scores. We know this because of how the arenas work now. Number 105 might try again harder next time. Number 198 is not going to try harder, he's going to figure it is not worth it and either try less hard for the 5*, or not even try at all and just grab the top 1-5% rank reward (this is a bit of an oversimplification: #198 might try harder next time, but he or she is only going to try harder so many times before they realize it is hopeless and give up, at least temporarily).

    The vast overwhelming majority of people who will be willing to settle for 5* in the new arenas would be shooting for them now. It is illogical to assume there's a lot of people who don't want to put in 50 million for the 5* today, but would be willing to put in 50 million for the 5* once 6* champs are also added. As long as there are less than 300 such lunatics that exist, it the overall impact will be for 5* champs to be slightly easier to get in the new configuration.

    Incidentally, I got Silver Centurion for 31.6 million in round two. He went for over 40 million in round one. There's lots of potential reasons for this, but the theory that makes the most sense that I've heard is that ArenaKnight posted scores late for round one, which means a lot of people did not have any idea what he went for in round one. Without that information, many people simply decided to sit out round two because they didn't have a good target to aim for. And all it takes is literally a couple dozen people to sit out for the cut off to plummet, because just under those people is no one else. Almost no one aims for high thirties when that's overkill for 1-5% but not generally enough for a new champ. That "depletion zone" is why I think we are unlikely to see a lot more than the 100 6* spots shooting for higher scores. A little more than that, but not a lot more. People know, or at least think they know, what to shoot for and when to not try. When the herd is wildly wrong, you get wonky low scores.

    (Why did I score 31.6 million, when no one should be at that time? I was doing a scoring experiment. It was a complete coincidence I scored exceptionally high at the exact moment less than the normal group of players shot for the champ.)
    I think you're underestimating the number of accounts that will be brought back into the fold just based on what I've seen in my last couple of years being pretty competitive in AQ ranks. Certainly any prestige shifting champ will likely have a massive influx of people going for them, unless I'm also underestimating how many people are just willing to roll with the increased drop rates to cav crystals.

    Again, I'm aware this is all speculation but I still don't see this change as being particularly good for your average player at all.
    New milestones won't be easily obtainable with the removal of smaller arenas that already loses a huge advantage for arena grinders. For people like me who may just run one arena and could careless about getting a new champ this is a welcomed change.

    There is no way an average player will be able to compete moving forward but that would happen for any 6 star arena being made available. So I think the average player has had their flowers for a good year plus now with the previous changes to arena. The game is shifting towards end gamers a gain and it is certainly a welcomed change on my part.
    I did not understand what you were saying? Are you saying the new change in arena could be an advantage for endgamers or average grinders. Because you say "the average player has had their flowers for a good year plus now". What does this mean?
    For people like me who are completely FTP and grind arena every week, the change won't make a difference in terms of getting a new champ since I don't go for new 5 stars or even new 4 stars. But, I was able to get all the milestones pretty easily. With this change and there being 6 star basic and featured arena, the milestones are the key for me. I could easily use only my 6 stars in 5 star featured and 5 stars in 4 star featured to get every milestone in both the arenas. I hope I could do the same again with 6 star featured and 6 star basic with 6 stars and 5 stars respectively.
    Yeah, my bad if it was confusing. I was trying to make your point that the arena grind has been easy for FTP guys who stack units for awhile now and this change will make it harder based on how high the milestones will become. So yes FTP has been pretty much been catered to since the drop of Throne breaker and well before that. You can tell by the shift on the forums to "get gud" and now its "too easy." Too easy leans on the FTP side obviously if that makes more sense.
    I don't understand how you can say FTP have been catered to since the drop of TB deals. The unit only deals for Cav was one the worst for Cyber monday which allowed me to skip them and go for abyss completion and Act 6 exploration. Even after those, unit deals have been nothing too great. Regarding the grind in arena, I have a 51 6* champs which allow me to score 12 mill points in 4 rounds, not every FTP can do that.

    Again, are you saying that because FTP have more units, they say content is too easy? I did not get that part. No one likes to spend units to revive. Content has become easier, carina's challenge is the only one that has forced me to spend revives after act 6 and V1. So, that has nothing to do with the FTP crowd and more with the direction of content Kabam has taken.
    Yeah those deals were really bad on Black Friday for FTP. I guessing I was associating FTP with low skill like people say that whales are low skill and just pay to win but I think it is the opposite for the most part. But yeah FTP means that your rosters are smaller majority of the time so you will need to open crystals and spend to have the rosters to compete.
  • TheTalentsTheTalents Posts: 2,254 ★★★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    TheTalents said:

    Worknprogress said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Worknprogress said:

    DNA3000 said:

    shadow_lurker22 said:

    People simply grinding for a 5* are going to have to compete with whales grinding for the 6*. I don't understand how Kabam thought this was a good idea.

    Who do you think they are competing against now? Right now only a small number of people even attempt to go for the 5* featured. Everyone else just stops when they are safely past the 1-5% mark (about 22 million). There is a gigantic drop off in scoring from 301 to 1-5%. In the new arena there will be 500 spots for either 5* or 6* featured. How many people right now are not going for the featured 5*, but would go for the featured 6*? I'm guessing not a lot. Even so, there will still be more people getting the 5* featured than before (400 vs 300).

    On top of that, there's the basic arena. Right now 300 people get the featured 5* every cycle. In the new arenas 1000 people will be getting either the 5* or the 6* featured or basic. Do you think there's 700 people sitting on the sidelines now capable of grinding for a 6* champion but just not bothering to even attempt to get the 5* now? That seems unlikely to me.

    If you had any shot at all at getting the 5* featured now, you'll still have a shot at getting either the 5* or 6* featured or the 5* or 6* basic. There's so many more opportunities across both arenas, and no huge reservoir of players capable of competing for those spots. My guess is this will bring *some* players out of the woodwork, but probably not 700 more on top of the 300 that have already been grinding away.

    What will be really interesting to see is how the jockeying between arenas goes. If you think you won't make top 100 in the featured, do you shift to go for the 6* basic? How does that shifting affect the 5* featured scores? Does that make the 5* featured a little easier to get? What will the cut off be for the 5* basic?
    I don't think this is necessarily true. 5* featured cutoffs have been quite low since the change to how many people get the champ. I think this has a lot to do with both the increase in champs rewarded but also that 5*s are now longer the most relevant rarity at the top end of the game.

    I'm guessing being able to get new 6*s through arena will bring back a lot of accounts (I say accounts not players bc we all know plenty will be using arena mercs) that have been ignoring these arenas for quite a while. That influx of players pushing in that arena and going for considerably higher scores for the 6* than are currently being put up for the 5* could potentially push the cutoff for the 5* considerably higher IMO. That has the possibility of raising cutoffs outside the realistic abilities of some people that are currently able to get the featured 5*.

    This is all just potential and guesses obviously, but I just don't think it's as black and white as saying if you're able to compete for the 5* now, you'll be able to compete for the 5/6* in the new arena.
    As I said, my guess is this will bring some players out of the woodwork, but probably not 700 more on top of the 300 that have already been grinding away.

    I should expand on this logic. Arena grinders quickly figure out at least some general idea of where scores will land. They aren't always right, but that's irrelevant: the important thing is that most arena grinders *think* they know approximately where scores will land.

    There's going to be 100 spots for 6* champs in each arena, 200 total. The people actually competing for those spots are going to figure out, fairly quickly, what the cut of score for champs is going to be, roughly. Everyone who thinks they have a shot at the cutoff will go for it. Everyone who doesn't will not even try. Those people are now confronted with basically the same choice they have now: go for 5*, or just shoot for 1-5% (if you can't even get 1-5% now, you are irrelevant to the cut of scores for the new arenas).

    If there's going to be 100 spots, I don't expect more than 150 people actually shooting for it. There's almost always going to be that heartbreaking guy that finishes 101 or 102, but there is simply not going to be 200 people with super high scores. We know this because of how the arenas work now. Number 105 might try again harder next time. Number 198 is not going to try harder, he's going to figure it is not worth it and either try less hard for the 5*, or not even try at all and just grab the top 1-5% rank reward (this is a bit of an oversimplification: #198 might try harder next time, but he or she is only going to try harder so many times before they realize it is hopeless and give up, at least temporarily).

    The vast overwhelming majority of people who will be willing to settle for 5* in the new arenas would be shooting for them now. It is illogical to assume there's a lot of people who don't want to put in 50 million for the 5* today, but would be willing to put in 50 million for the 5* once 6* champs are also added. As long as there are less than 300 such lunatics that exist, it the overall impact will be for 5* champs to be slightly easier to get in the new configuration.

    Incidentally, I got Silver Centurion for 31.6 million in round two. He went for over 40 million in round one. There's lots of potential reasons for this, but the theory that makes the most sense that I've heard is that ArenaKnight posted scores late for round one, which means a lot of people did not have any idea what he went for in round one. Without that information, many people simply decided to sit out round two because they didn't have a good target to aim for. And all it takes is literally a couple dozen people to sit out for the cut off to plummet, because just under those people is no one else. Almost no one aims for high thirties when that's overkill for 1-5% but not generally enough for a new champ. That "depletion zone" is why I think we are unlikely to see a lot more than the 100 6* spots shooting for higher scores. A little more than that, but not a lot more. People know, or at least think they know, what to shoot for and when to not try. When the herd is wildly wrong, you get wonky low scores.

    (Why did I score 31.6 million, when no one should be at that time? I was doing a scoring experiment. It was a complete coincidence I scored exceptionally high at the exact moment less than the normal group of players shot for the champ.)
    I think you're underestimating the number of accounts that will be brought back into the fold just based on what I've seen in my last couple of years being pretty competitive in AQ ranks. Certainly any prestige shifting champ will likely have a massive influx of people going for them, unless I'm also underestimating how many people are just willing to roll with the increased drop rates to cav crystals.

    Again, I'm aware this is all speculation but I still don't see this change as being particularly good for your average player at all.
    New milestones won't be easily obtainable with the removal of smaller arenas that already loses a huge advantage for arena grinders. For people like me who may just run one arena and could careless about getting a new champ this is a welcomed change.

    There is no way an average player will be able to compete moving forward but that would happen for any 6 star arena being made available. So I think the average player has had their flowers for a good year plus now with the previous changes to arena. The game is shifting towards end gamers a gain and it is certainly a welcomed change on my part.
    There's no way an average Player would be able to compete either way. You have two subsects of Players who Grind. Those who do it casually, for Milestones and the like, and those who compete. The Arena is, and has always been, a competition of (Roster + Effort) × Time. Those who typically Rank are those with either the greatest Rosters, an abundance of Units to refresh, or both. Most typically both. There tends to be a similar demographic that earns Champs, and it's not as accessible for people in the middle. Doable, I suppose. With enough Units. However, they're not really going to keep up because of the simple fact that their Rosters aren't as wide. One of the things about the Arena is that progress increases as Rosters do. Meaning more Champs, higher Ranks, more Rarities, more Points. People do better the more they do it and the more they expand their Roster.
    Yes the average player can't compete but with the 5 star arena only being available the whales no longer care about 5 stars at all. So its not really a competition right now. You can outwork better rosters because most whales don't care about the 5 star arena. 6 star arena means the pool of players participating will practically double at a minimum, especially with less arenas.
  • SHIELD4AGENTSHIELD4AGENT Posts: 915 ★★★★
    edited May 2021
    Just wait for further info on this arena changes.
    Augenesburg said:

    I personally hate everything about this changes in arenas. The way it is now. Grinding out for the 3 star champ always is great even if I have the champ. The 4 star basic is sometimes hard to hit the high ones at 2.5 or higher. I'm not uncollected yet. That is the worst part. For the average player that just likes to collect champs and do some content. This is a bunch of garbage. Locking Summoner that are Conqueror and beyond out is total bull. I hate this. I know that 3 and 4 star champs will now be part of milestone. But as I am Conqueror only. I can't even do arenas at all other than summoner trial only. The the fact the top prise is a nexus 4 star is just awful crappie. So I can't even grind for the basic 4 star champ at all. Totally bummed out. It makes me want to just quit the game. I love playing. It is my outlet. My way of relaxing and that is being taken away from me.

    Then push to becoming Uncollected.

    I started playing Dec. 17, 2020 and got Uncollected by March 4th, 2021. Used only a bunch of 4-Stars I got from basic arena. Got Jubilee, Stryfe and Cable from featured arena when I was in beginners bracket.
    Good thing I pushed for Uncollected on time, never thought they'd lock out Conqueror and below from new arena update.
    Now I can easily target to either grind the milestones for 4-star basic champ or the 4-star featured new champ if I already have the 4-star basic champ.
    Atleast this change can force Conqueror and below to push for Uncollected much early when they have the skill to do it or even units to get the title.
  • GiuliameijGiuliameij Posts: 1,849 ★★★★
    I am very curious about the new arena's. So much so that I refresh the forums every half hour to see if they made a post with information about it.
    Really Really Really want to know what the milestones and other changes are.
  • GiuliameijGiuliameij Posts: 1,849 ★★★★
    Augenesburg said:

    With the changes to arenas that is coming it just makes me very upset. I do the basic 4 star arena and I try to hit what is said to be the prediction total of points needed for that. Most of the time I have to spend to hit those totals. Because I can't spend a lot of time grinding arenas. And I don't mind at all. In the current basic 4 star is immortal hulk. I want this champ but with all of the changes it kinda piss me off a lot. I put up 1,650,674 mil. I know that is not going to get me the champ but I just feel defeated from knowing that the changes are coming and just don't want to do it any more. With all of the changes that are coming to the game. Kabam may be killing this game. I'm about to close my accounts down and stop pkay. It hurts a lot. But if this company really does not care about the player that really love this game. They are doomed to failure.

    Well, right now you have to guess what amount of points you need. With the new arena's you get the champ garanteed from the milestones.
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