It just appears to me that they took what he did already and made it more complicated.
Consider:
The power control actually looks to be worse -unless- you play aggressively after SP1’s against non-power gaining opponents.
The bleeds -can- be better (?) but it takes a while to get there.
When you take a step back and see what he did before, and you look at what he will do going forward, it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense as to why they decided to spend their time on him.
The ultimate question to ask is, will anyone who didn’t use him before rank him up now and make him a part of their team? I doubt many will compared to say, Miles, Ultron, and Nebula, for example.
I dunno. Maybe they just don’t have enough people or time. Some of these buffs really feel like they need more people and more brainstorming. And especially some consultation with the community or ccp, even if only a bit.
People really over-exaggerating the fact that he doesn't have more than 2 types of DOT available to him. People wanted a trick arrows-esque mechanic and they didn't get it.
That =/= Buff Bad
I feel the same way.
I would only ask that instead of a poison synergy arrow it is a shock or incinerate or rupture.
We won’t know how he feels until the buff goes live. We’re all just making (semi-😂)educated guesses at the moment and basing criticism on those.
However I do think it’s important to continue providing this feedback to Kabam. For one thing it shows how engaged the community is with the buff program and how much we value it. It’s also important to distinguish the successful buffs from the ones that haven’t gone down very well.
We won’t know how he feels until the buff goes live. We’re all just making (semi-😂)educated guesses at the moment and basing criticism on those.
However I do think it’s important to continue providing this feedback to Kabam. For one thing it shows how engaged the community is with the buff program and how much we value it. It’s also important to distinguish the successful buffs from the ones that haven’t gone down very well.
If they already fill a niche (power drain) add another niche-filler (shock, incinerate etc) to make them more attractive and not just damage as there are plenty damage dealers around.
Yeah 100%, say for example, a slow debuff?
Not sure this is as funny as it was in your head as I already stated that was a good addition in an earlier post, but still doesn't make him as special as a suite of prefights and ability to change them midfight would make him (being an OG Avenger). Stealth suit can do slow and fragility. What I personally wanted was a character more in line with the comic book Hawkeye vs an extension of the kabam one (a power drainer with now added slow).
I guess I wanted a rework/overhaul that kept his power drain but added several utility (like a BWCV or Sorcerer supreme) over a moderate buff.
As much as I like the HE buff so far and as much as I've been defending it, I have to agree with you that having more arrow types would have been amazing. Make them like WS where you have to dash back and hold block to cycle through them, or make it so that we can cycle them on medium combo enders, and then give him a prefight that would allow him to start on a specific arrow type in case you needed a certain piece of utility right away.
I just don't agree with the people calling it a nerf already since we haven't been able to test the buff yet. Just stop with the whole nerf thing and wait for the next update. Then we will have a final verdict.
This is what I expected them to do. Add a winter soldier component for different arrows. Damage increases will be good but shouldn't have changed his power drain.
The answer that would make most people happy would be a synergy like:
“If the defender is immune to Hawkeye’s Dot debuffs, they then will inflict shock”
So even if you have the poison synergy on, this should work
But will you use another slot on your team just to make Hawkeye usable in bleed-immune match-ups? Short answer: no.
I mean. If you purely are using Tigra and HE for whatever reason, HE can take the fights with his power control that Tigra cant. They compliment each other, ability wise
The answer that would make most people happy would be a synergy like:
“If the defender is immune to Hawkeye’s Dot debuffs, they then will inflict shock”
So even if you have the poison synergy on, this should work
But will you use another slot on your team just to make Hawkeye usable in bleed-immune match-ups? Short answer: no.
Better than not having anything. Are the going to change it now with 6 days until it goes live? I don’t know the answer to that. Historically speaking - no.
Future synergies provide a little relief. Otherwise it’s just constant complaining by us.
Geez man. This place is very negative about every thing.
Maybe I'm alone in looking forwards to this buff going live.
It's very clear that this buff will give Hawkeye a fairly hefty damage boost. That alone will make him useable.
I totally agree with @DNA3000 that the Power Control is likely comparable to what he had before. Even if it is slightly less accessible or reliable, crucially: he's still got the ability even if it becomes slightly less effective. Unlike Hood's lost (then replaced) Fate Seal, and Guillotines sadly-ruined SP3.
But I'm really looking forwards to trying out the Perfect Release mechanism. It's new. It sounds cool. It's very, very appropriate to the character, because it rewards skill. And it's (currently) unique.
Maybe I'm alone in looking forwards to this buff going live.
It's very clear that this buff will give Hawkeye a fairly hefty damage boost. That alone will make him useable.
I totally agree with @DNA3000 that the Power Control is likely comparable to what he had before. Even if it is slightly less accessible or reliable, crucially: he's still got the ability even if it becomes slightly less effective. Unlike Hood's lost (then replaced) Fate Seal, and Guillotines sadly-ruined SP3.
But I'm really looking forwards to trying out the Perfect Release mechanism. It's new. It sounds cool. It's very, very appropriate to the character, because it rewards skill. And it's (currently) unique.
And Unique is always...valuable.
I’m glad you see it that way. I do too.
I feel as if Kabam has a plan with the buffs. The synergies can make a champ completely different (Cable, Mysterio).
I believe Hawkeye will have a lot of use, but believe that future synergies may make him even better. We cannot change him by complaining, only to give solutions. Kabam has listened before and they will listen again. Maybe we don’t get everything exactly the way we want but someone will always be upset regardless of the buff/champ/etc.
Everyone said Spidey 99 was a noodle, lacked utility, etc. Now he’s a beast. The buff hasn’t even gone live yet.
I just saw that. Means combat power rate can reach -100% with 2 sp1’s. Add -25% power for each sp1.
Does that make things a little better?
I think it just depends on how aggressive you can play and how much uptime you can get on 1 or both suppression’s. This could be huge. The arguments for it being a nerf may be slipping away
I just saw that. Means combat power rate can reach -100% with 2 sp1’s. Add -25% power for each sp1.
Does that make things a little better?
I think it just depends on how aggressive you can play and how much uptime you can get on 1 or both suppression’s. This could be huge. The arguments for it being a nerf may be slipping away
In longer fights with 5 perfect releases it’ll reach 12 seconds as a debuff. You probably can’t stack more than 2 unless you have a way to pause the Debuffs.
I just saw that. Means combat power rate can reach -100% with 2 sp1’s. Add -25% power for each sp1.
Does that make things a little better?
I think it just depends on how aggressive you can play and how much uptime you can get on 1 or both suppression’s. This could be huge. The arguments for it being a nerf may be slipping away
Each suppression would last 12 seconds at 5 dialed in. I imagine that if you stay aggressive enough you'll be able to have at least 2 at all times. Might be a nice vivified counter.
I just saw that. Means combat power rate can reach -100% with 2 sp1’s. Add -25% power for each sp1.
Does that make things a little better?
I think it just depends on how aggressive you can play and how much uptime you can get on 1 or both suppression’s. This could be huge. The arguments for it being a nerf may be slipping away
Each suppression would last 12 seconds at 5 dialed in. I imagine that if you stay aggressive enough you'll be able to have at least 2 at all times. Might be a nice vivified counter.
I doubt you’ll be able to stack 2 constantly, I feel like if you’re very aggressive it’s gonna be like 75-90% uptime on 1, and the rest with 2. So you’ll get some time when you block out all power, but most of the time it’ll be half power gain
Im impressed how people can write whole books about champs they didnt see even 1 second of gameplay yet
Coz people can read and been playing this game for years. If i give you the script to a movie can you say it will be good, trash or just ok? Most people can
You can't. You literally cant. Avatar has a terrible script but is the most successful movie if all time
More obviously: Psycho is considered a classic. The 2016 remake is an attempted shot for shot remake and thus has virtually an identical script, but it is considered a poor movie.
R5 Hawkeye on SP1 is going to bleed 5780 for 5 seconds. So about 1150 per second for 5 seconds.
Buffed Hawkeye on SP1 with perfect release will bleed for 2370 for 10 seconds. So 237 per second for 10 seconds.
Sounds bad, right? Well, if you hit the dialed in the duration goes up. If you hit into the opponent the duration is paused. Each bleed decreases physical resistance. Critical hits with his sig ability will cause the bleed number to be higher (why are we ignoring this?)
Skillful play is rewarded now with this guy.
So these numbers are not the real numbers. The real damage is hidden under “crit rating”. His damage is going to be going on for a while once you get a show going.
We'll need to see how easy his skillful play style will be to pull off. I think it will be harder than much of the conversation has implied. If it was an all but certainty so it factors into all considerations of his play, they would've just made it 100% instead of adding in an unproven new mechanic to an already very buggy environment.
Im impressed how people can write whole books about champs they didnt see even 1 second of gameplay yet
Coz people can read and been playing this game for years. If i give you the script to a movie can you say it will be good, trash or just ok? Most people can
You can't. You literally cant. Avatar has a terrible script but is the most successful movie if all time
More obviously: Psycho is considered a classic. The 2016 remake is an attempted shot for shot remake and thus has virtually an identical script, but it is considered a poor movie.
Im impressed how people can write whole books about champs they didnt see even 1 second of gameplay yet
Coz people can read and been playing this game for years. If i give you the script to a movie can you say it will be good, trash or just ok? Most people can
You can't. You literally cant. Avatar has a terrible script but is the most successful movie if all time
More obviously: Psycho is considered a classic. The 2016 remake is an attempted shot for shot remake and thus has virtually an identical script, but it is considered a poor movie.
I appreciate the analysis from OP. And I also think DNA and some others make good counterpoints. Which is why this community is great.
With this buff in particular there’s a new mechanic, perfect release, and we have to see how that plays. We’ve seen good and bad on this front. But to DNA’s point, if the window to activate perfect release proves too difficult/unreliable for most of the player base, then it means the skill cap was set too high. It’s not a nerf to the pure definition of the term, but could be seen as such in that practically speaking HE will be used less.
I think OP’s exasperation is understandable, all things considered, with us still moving out the shadow of the Guilly debacle. But the conclusion that all, or even most, OG champ abilities should be locked in and only added to is ultimately too restricting.
In baseball analytics, for example, strikeouts are balanced by how productive you are when you get hits. So it’s fine for someone to whiff a lot if they get a lot of extra base hits. You might want to tweak their approach at times, but it’s generally not good offensive philosophy to take the bat out of the hands of your best power hitter or force him to bunt because he struck out the two at bats previous. Kabam has some bad strikeouts recently, but we have to keep giving them a chance to hit some out the park, or at least string some doubles together etc.
I appreciate the analysis from OP. And I also think DNA and some others make good counterpoints. Which is why this community is great.
With this buff in particular there’s a new mechanic, perfect release, and we have to see how that plays. We’ve seen good and bad on this front. But to DNA’s point, if the window to activate perfect release proves too difficult/unreliable for most of the player base, then it means the skill cap was set too high. It’s not a nerf to the pure definition of the term, but could be seen as such in that practically speaking HE will be used less.
I think OP’s exasperation is understandable, all things considered, with us still moving out the shadow of the Guilly debacle. But the conclusion that all, or even most, OG champ abilities should be locked in and only added to is ultimately too restricting.
In baseball analytics, for example, strikeouts are balanced by how productive you are when you get hits. So it’s fine for someone to whiff a lot if they get a lot of extra base hits. You might want to tweak their approach at times, but it’s generally not good offensive philosophy to take the bat out of the hands of your best power hitter or force him to bunt because he struck out the two at bats previous. Kabam has some bad strikeouts recently, but we have to keep giving them a chance to hit some out the park, or at least string some doubles together etc.
This is a great post, but I very respectfully disagree with the one point that locking in abilities that are original to a champion is too restricting. It’s a buff program not a champion re-design program. If people have used the character for years, the problem is changing that champ is actually taking away what a player owned/fought for. A dangerous impact showing the player has no control over a game they poured hours of playtime into. Generating huge discomfort and reducing real engagement of players , so eventually restricting any wish for further investment of time and money. Unless that new replacement is significantly better to the point of an extreme, a player will always be upset/ have reason to find issue. Their resource is being changed without their consent. The game is not kabams , it’s ours , we play, they just develop a sandbox and rules/challenges for us to engage in. If we stop playing the game, it ceases to be. It’s not a console game where the investment is already made and the game purchased. It’s a whole different income model that means players constantly revalue the game with each passing day, with every change, so kabam get endlessly judged to see if they are worthy of further investment, ie. did MCOC make me happy today. Years ago when MCOC started it was a novel model and player expectations were low, so any updates were welcome. Now competition and standards are much higher, so kabam need to continue to perform and be intelligent in their evolution of the game. Kabam chose this harder income model, they must live with its rules.
It’s like being mugged, you had some stuff, say a nice watch, you never really used it, maybe without your consent someone took it, you get lucky and the police find it, you get it back, but now it shows 24hr date format instead of 12 hour date format. Still the same item, still tells the time, some people think it’s better, some worse, does the same job, but it’s not yours anymore, someone messed with it, you never cared before, but now it’s changed you get grumpy about it. I feel that’s the problem here, to do a buff kabam feel they have to take away what is already in game and this will Always cause discomfort ( unless your watch is turned into a Rolex and you sell it to buy a new house).
If a character is so incredibly bad it needs buffing then keeping its original abilities should be fine. If a character needs buffing but kabam are not willing to keep its old abilities then that champ needs a full re-release as an alternate new version, and the old champ gently buffed via synergy with it. Taking a half measures approach on endlessly fiddling with half the champs in the game is just a mess. I feel kabam have lost the point in what they are trying to achieve, and this mess with an original avenger at the heart of it is the final straw, it feels kabam have lost sight of what they actually want to do and why. Kabam need focus. They need to understand what they are trying to achieve and stick to it instead of messing with endless characters for no big picture benefit, just a whole cast of champs who were meh to average, and then get to be average to good. So what, no one will care. We’ll still only play with god tier champs as the meta for MCOC demands them to clear content. Eg Luke cage or Angela. Perfect buffs, kept all the old abilities, but propelled the champ into a higher tier, an actual buff( both interestingly were by increasing utility as well as damage) Take hood or guilly, loads of increased abilities, but they dared change the basics of their kit, the whole community has opinions, and a lot of them bad. Why even go down that path. If I was kabam I’d stay far away from causing these constant issues. Why even run the risk of upsetting players, they are already so grumpy currently from countless other issues. Why don’t they just make life easy for themselves, they seem to want to stir up controversy. It all stems from either a lack of big picture understanding,or even worse maybe they don’t fully understand in the first place the ramifications of what they do. In summary I think the OP had the perfect title. Kabam don’t learn, they continually make life hard for themselves. They think 1 step ahead eg. We buff champs cos we said we would. They don’t think 2 steps ahead, we should buff champs because it will gain favour of the players and make them happy so they spend lots of their money with us. The important thing there, is to do something that makes players happy, not do something just for the sake of it. If kabam do a single thing that makes players less happy that have failed, it’s a waste of sunk resource and they will probably end up getting less money for it. The only saving grace in this specific buff is the perfect timing mechanic , if it’s fun it’ll save the situation. I hope for everyone that it’s fun. But if that was the only real big picture benefit of the whole exercise then why not just release it in a new character, to make me buy it , and then if they really want they can buff Hawkeye via synergy so there is no risk of me getting grumpy they broke my Hawkeye toy. It’s just simple risk mitigation. Kabam keep gambling, but they keep losing.
It’s a buff program not a champion re-design program.
It is an update program, not a buff program. Some champions with modern reasonable designs that have performance issues get numerical buffs or small tweaks. Older champions with designs no longer relevant to the current game are updated with modern design sensibilities.
If people have used the character for years, the problem is changing that champ is actually taking away what a player owned/fought for. A dangerous impact showing the player has no control over a game they poured hours of playtime into. Generating huge discomfort and reducing real engagement of players , so eventually restricting any wish for further investment of time and money. Unless that new replacement is significantly better to the point of an extreme, a player will always be upset/ have reason to find issue. Their resource is being changed without their consent. The game is not kabams , it’s ours , we play, they just develop a sandbox and rules/challenges for us to engage in. If we stop playing the game, it ceases to be.
That's one way to look at it. Let me know when you find a game developer who agrees with you and manages to launch an actual game.
It’s a buff program not a champion re-design program.
It is an update program, not a buff program. Some champions with modern reasonable designs that have performance issues get numerical buffs or small tweaks. Older champions with designs no longer relevant to the current game are updated with modern design sensibilities.
If people have used the character for years, the problem is changing that champ is actually taking away what a player owned/fought for. A dangerous impact showing the player has no control over a game they poured hours of playtime into. Generating huge discomfort and reducing real engagement of players , so eventually restricting any wish for further investment of time and money. Unless that new replacement is significantly better to the point of an extreme, a player will always be upset/ have reason to find issue. Their resource is being changed without their consent. The game is not kabams , it’s ours , we play, they just develop a sandbox and rules/challenges for us to engage in. If we stop playing the game, it ceases to be.
That's one way to look at it. Let me know when you find a game developer who agrees with you and manages to launch an actual game.
A matter of perspective. I can't imagine too much success with a for profit game where the devs legitimately don't have their customer's wants/needs/sensibilities as a driving force. If you aren't creating for your customers to get their business, then who and why?
It does feel like some of these updates have lost their way. We keep talking about reusing known good ideas, mechanics, etc. that they've already tested and know they work to make it easier and they keep taking that away and making new stuff that's poorly received and adding complications. Maybe they need to take a harder look at the champs that were a slam-dunk from the beginning, the champs that after their update/buff people really enjoy, and the champs where the "buff" was so tragically a nothing-burger featuring extra squadoosh it engendered rage and sadness (Nova!). Break those down and return to harmony, find the beat, get their mojo risin', whatever they need to harness so they can consistently avoid this situation.
I've had a R5 5* Hawkeye 200 sig for a few months now, and never regretted it.
Yes, there are a few champions with better power control, and some with better bleed damage.
But what he does best is balance the power control and bleed damage with his S1 with guaranteed, CONSISTENT EASE.
Now your taking that and over complicating with RANDOM VARIABLES...in my opinion. Some players may like the challenge.
Now here's something positive I like about his buff
The S.H.I.E.L.D. Survival gear Synergy. Making him Suicides friendlier.
In regard to future buffs....instead of doing things backa**wards, when the game developers decide which champions they want to buff start a discussion thread about it....BEFORE they start the buff on them.
We the players, don't want tie your hands creatively. But there are plenty of players with great ideas that have the potential to be a good resource for you to use.
Yes, getting everyone to agree on changes will never happen, in which case get the consensus of community.
And should it come down to a poll, I beg of you to not makes us earn our vote by playing arenas or anything else for that matter.
So, I understand why you don’t want him to gain a vigilance or true sense buff (Hawkeye is a champ that doesn’t gain buffs other than dex, I get it - there’s uses for that).
You could have given him a passive.
Trick arrows? I believe that can be accomplished with synergies. I get you can’t make him overpowered but the buff isn’t out.
It’s a buff program not a champion re-design program.
It is an update program, not a buff program. Some champions with modern reasonable designs that have performance issues get numerical buffs or small tweaks. Older champions with designs no longer relevant to the current game are updated with modern design sensibilities.
If people have used the character for years, the problem is changing that champ is actually taking away what a player owned/fought for. A dangerous impact showing the player has no control over a game they poured hours of playtime into. Generating huge discomfort and reducing real engagement of players , so eventually restricting any wish for further investment of time and money. Unless that new replacement is significantly better to the point of an extreme, a player will always be upset/ have reason to find issue. Their resource is being changed without their consent. The game is not kabams , it’s ours , we play, they just develop a sandbox and rules/challenges for us to engage in. If we stop playing the game, it ceases to be.
That's one way to look at it. Let me know when you find a game developer who agrees with you and manages to launch an actual game.
A matter of perspective. I can't imagine too much success with a for profit game where the devs legitimately don't have their customer's wants/needs/sensibilities as a driving force. If you aren't creating for your customers to get their business, then who and why?
By definition, anyone who doesn’t read or agree to the terms of service cannot be a target customer of the game. This game’s target customer base does not believe they own it and ultimately should be allowed to have their right to preserve what they invest in protected. These positions are prohibited by the TOS, and anyone who believes these things to be true is legally not allowed to play the game. The game was created for everyone else.
It’s a buff program not a champion re-design program.
It is an update program, not a buff program. Some champions with modern reasonable designs that have performance issues get numerical buffs or small tweaks. Older champions with designs no longer relevant to the current game are updated with modern design sensibilities.
If people have used the character for years, the problem is changing that champ is actually taking away what a player owned/fought for. A dangerous impact showing the player has no control over a game they poured hours of playtime into. Generating huge discomfort and reducing real engagement of players , so eventually restricting any wish for further investment of time and money. Unless that new replacement is significantly better to the point of an extreme, a player will always be upset/ have reason to find issue. Their resource is being changed without their consent. The game is not kabams , it’s ours , we play, they just develop a sandbox and rules/challenges for us to engage in. If we stop playing the game, it ceases to be.
That's one way to look at it. Let me know when you find a game developer who agrees with you and manages to launch an actual game.
A matter of perspective. I can't imagine too much success with a for profit game where the devs legitimately don't have their customer's wants/needs/sensibilities as a driving force. If you aren't creating for your customers to get their business, then who and why?
By definition, anyone who doesn’t read or agree to the terms of service cannot be a target customer of the game. This game’s target customer base does not believe they own it and ultimately should be allowed to have their right to preserve what they invest in protected. These positions are prohibited by the TOS, and anyone who believes these things to be true is legally not allowed to play the game. The game was created for everyone else.
Dude, that sucked a little bit of the joy and magic out of the world. I don't think @RetroRocks was being as dreadfully literal as all that.
Comments
Consider:
The power control actually looks to be worse -unless- you play aggressively after SP1’s against non-power gaining opponents.
The bleeds -can- be better (?) but it takes a while to get there.
When you take a step back and see what he did before, and you look at what he will do going forward, it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense as to why they decided to spend their time on him.
The ultimate question to ask is, will anyone who didn’t use him before rank him up now and make him a part of their team? I doubt many will compared to say, Miles, Ultron, and Nebula, for example.
I would only ask that instead of a poison synergy arrow it is a shock or incinerate or rupture.
But who knows what the future holds
However I do think it’s important to continue providing this feedback to Kabam. For one thing it shows how engaged the community is with the buff program and how much we value it. It’s also important to distinguish the successful buffs from the ones that haven’t gone down very well.
“If the defender is immune to Hawkeye’s Dot debuffs, they then will inflict shock”
So even if you have the poison synergy on, this should work
Future synergies provide a little relief. Otherwise it’s just constant complaining by us.
Geez man. This place is very negative about every thing.
Maybe I'm alone in looking forwards to this buff going live.
It's very clear that this buff will give Hawkeye a fairly hefty damage boost. That alone will make him useable.
I totally agree with @DNA3000 that the Power Control is likely comparable to what he had before. Even if it is slightly less accessible or reliable, crucially: he's still got the ability even if it becomes slightly less effective. Unlike Hood's lost (then replaced) Fate Seal, and Guillotines sadly-ruined SP3.
But I'm really looking forwards to trying out the Perfect Release mechanism. It's new. It sounds cool. It's very, very appropriate to the character, because it rewards skill. And it's (currently) unique.
And Unique is always...valuable.
This is certainly good
I feel as if Kabam has a plan with the buffs. The synergies can make a champ completely different (Cable, Mysterio).
I believe Hawkeye will have a lot of use, but believe that future synergies may make him even better. We cannot change him by complaining, only to give solutions. Kabam has listened before and they will listen again. Maybe we don’t get everything exactly the way we want but someone will always be upset regardless of the buff/champ/etc.
Everyone said Spidey 99 was a noodle, lacked utility, etc. Now he’s a beast. The buff hasn’t even gone live yet.
So my questions:
1. Does the suppression debuff stack?
2. What does sig level do? Physical resistance?
3. Why call the SP2 incendiary?
I just saw that. Means combat power rate can reach -100% with 2 sp1’s. Add -25% power for each sp1.
Does that make things a little better?
With this buff in particular there’s a new mechanic, perfect release, and we have to see how that plays. We’ve seen good and bad on this front. But to DNA’s point, if the window to activate perfect release proves too difficult/unreliable for most of the player base, then it means the skill cap was set too high. It’s not a nerf to the pure definition of the term, but could be seen as such in that practically speaking HE will be used less.
I think OP’s exasperation is understandable, all things considered, with us still moving out the shadow of the Guilly debacle. But the conclusion that all, or even most, OG champ abilities should be locked in and only added to is ultimately too restricting.
In baseball analytics, for example, strikeouts are balanced by how productive you are when you get hits. So it’s fine for someone to whiff a lot if they get a lot of extra base hits. You might want to tweak their approach at times, but it’s generally not good offensive philosophy to take the bat out of the hands of your best power hitter or force him to bunt because he struck out the two at bats previous. Kabam has some bad strikeouts recently, but we have to keep giving them a chance to hit some out the park, or at least string some doubles together etc.
It’s a buff program not a champion re-design program.
If people have used the character for years, the problem is changing that champ is actually taking away what a player owned/fought for. A dangerous impact showing the player has no control over a game they poured hours of playtime into. Generating huge discomfort and reducing real engagement of players , so eventually restricting any wish for further investment of time and money.
Unless that new replacement is significantly better to the point of an extreme, a player will always be upset/ have reason to find issue. Their resource is being changed without their consent.
The game is not kabams , it’s ours , we play, they just develop a sandbox and rules/challenges for us to engage in. If we stop playing the game, it ceases to be. It’s not a console game where the investment is already made and the game purchased. It’s a whole different income model that means players constantly revalue the game with each passing day, with every change, so kabam get endlessly judged to see if they are worthy of further investment, ie. did MCOC make me happy today.
Years ago when MCOC started it was a novel model and player expectations were low, so any updates were welcome. Now competition and standards are much higher, so kabam need to continue to perform and be intelligent in their evolution of the game. Kabam chose this harder income model, they must live with its rules.
It’s like being mugged, you had some stuff, say a nice watch, you never really used it, maybe without your consent someone took it, you get lucky and the police find it, you get it back, but now it shows 24hr date format instead of 12 hour date format. Still the same item, still tells the time, some people think it’s better, some worse, does the same job, but it’s not yours anymore, someone messed with it, you never cared before, but now it’s changed you get grumpy about it. I feel that’s the problem here, to do a buff kabam feel they have to take away what is already in game and this will Always cause discomfort ( unless your watch is turned into a Rolex and you sell it to buy a new house).
If a character is so incredibly bad it needs buffing then keeping its original abilities should be fine. If a character needs buffing but kabam are not willing to keep its old abilities then that champ needs a full re-release as an alternate new version, and the old champ gently buffed via synergy with it.
Taking a half measures approach on endlessly fiddling with half the champs in the game is just a mess. I feel kabam have lost the point in what they are trying to achieve, and this mess with an original avenger at the heart of it is the final straw, it feels kabam have lost sight of what they actually want to do and why.
Kabam need focus.
They need to understand what they are trying to achieve and stick to it instead of messing with endless characters for no big picture benefit, just a whole cast of champs who were meh to average, and then get to be average to good. So what, no one will care. We’ll still only play with god tier champs as the meta for MCOC demands them to clear content.
Eg Luke cage or Angela. Perfect buffs, kept all the old abilities, but propelled the champ into a higher tier, an actual buff( both interestingly were by increasing utility as well as damage)
Take hood or guilly, loads of increased abilities, but they dared change the basics of their kit, the whole community has opinions, and a lot of them bad.
Why even go down that path. If I was kabam I’d stay far away from causing these constant issues. Why even run the risk of upsetting players, they are already so grumpy currently from countless other issues. Why don’t they just make life easy for themselves, they seem to want to stir up controversy.
It all stems from either a lack of big picture understanding,or even worse maybe they don’t fully understand in the first place the ramifications of what they do.
In summary I think the OP had the perfect title.
Kabam don’t learn, they continually make life hard for themselves. They think 1 step ahead eg. We buff champs cos we said we would. They don’t think 2 steps ahead, we should buff champs because it will gain favour of the players and make them happy so they spend lots of their money with us. The important thing there, is to do something that makes players happy, not do something just for the sake of it. If kabam do a single thing that makes players less happy that have failed, it’s a waste of sunk resource and they will probably end up getting less money for it.
The only saving grace in this specific buff is the perfect timing mechanic , if it’s fun it’ll save the situation. I hope for everyone that it’s fun.
But if that was the only real big picture benefit of the whole exercise then why not just release it in a new character, to make me buy it , and then if they really want they can buff Hawkeye via synergy so there is no risk of me getting grumpy they broke my Hawkeye toy. It’s just simple risk mitigation.
Kabam keep gambling, but they keep losing.
It does feel like some of these updates have lost their way. We keep talking about reusing known good ideas, mechanics, etc. that they've already tested and know they work to make it easier and they keep taking that away and making new stuff that's poorly received and adding complications. Maybe they need to take a harder look at the champs that were a slam-dunk from the beginning, the champs that after their update/buff people really enjoy, and the champs where the "buff" was so tragically a nothing-burger featuring extra squadoosh it engendered rage and sadness (Nova!). Break those down and return to harmony, find the beat, get their mojo risin', whatever they need to harness so they can consistently avoid this situation.
Yes, there are a few champions with better power control, and some with better bleed damage.
But what he does best is balance the power control and bleed damage with his S1 with guaranteed, CONSISTENT EASE.
Now your taking that and over complicating with RANDOM VARIABLES...in my opinion.
Some players may like the challenge.
Now here's something positive I like about his buff
The S.H.I.E.L.D. Survival gear Synergy. Making him Suicides friendlier.
In regard to future buffs....instead of doing things backa**wards, when the game developers decide which champions they want to buff
start a discussion thread about it....BEFORE they start the buff on them.
We the players, don't want tie your hands creatively. But there are plenty of players with great ideas that have the potential to be a good resource for you to use.
Yes, getting everyone to agree on changes will never happen, in which case get the consensus of community.
And should it come down to a poll, I beg of you to not makes us earn our vote by playing arenas or anything else for that matter.
Each player only gets ONE VOTE.
You could have given him a passive.
Trick arrows? I believe that can be accomplished with synergies. I get you can’t make him overpowered but the buff isn’t out.
He is an OG Avenger with a ton of history.
I hope his buff is legit.