So if cav difficulty is getting tweaked and more complicated, are the rewards going to reflect it?

GarrettN · November 2021

At this point why not just make a thronebreaker difficulty and save some trouble?

TheBair123 · November 2021

kabam lives by this phrase:

if it's broke: don't fix it, if it ain't broke: break it

Demonzfyre · November 2021

GarrettN said:
At this point why not just make a thronebreaker difficulty and save some trouble?

So changing from class to tags increases difficutly?

DNA3000 · November 2021

GarrettN said:
SO IF CAV DIFFICULTY IS GETTING TWEAKED AND MORE COMPLICATED, ARE THE REWARDS GOING TO REFLECT IT?

Yes. Cav rewards are going to be tweaked to become more complicated.

te_dua_shum · November 2021

Demonzfyre said:

GarrettN said:
At this point why not just make a thronebreaker difficulty and save some trouble?
So changing from class to tags increases difficutly?

I would say yes if you consider that there are only six classes but much more tags, so it's easier to have a couple of ranked champions for each class than for each tag, even if they group more tags together. I don't want to say anything about rewards, but I do believe that going by tags makes those nodes harder to take advantage of ^_^

danielmath · November 2021

what did they do to cav difficulty?

Jaded · November 2021

Demonzfyre said:

GarrettN said:
At this point why not just make a thronebreaker difficulty and save some trouble?
So changing from class to tags increases difficutly?

Like @te_dua_shum mentioned, I’ll add that for example you take the #avenger tag. Personally I don’t have a single avenger above 6*r1 or 5*r4 but have full teams of every class at 5*r5 or 6*r3. So difficultly is raised if people don’t have those champions ranked. Although if the levels are made so any champion can do it but take longer then that’s okay it just sucks to take more time out of people’s life’s.

DNA3000 · November 2021

GarrettN said:
At this point why not just make a thronebreaker difficulty and save some trouble?

Also, I remember when people were begging for Cav difficulty, and I predicted when it arrived people would be constantly complaining about it, because it would take the spot that Uncollected originally had: being the top tier difficulty with the most experimentation in difficulty design. I wasn't disappointed.

Thronebreaker difficulty, if and when it arrives, is going to scale similarly to Cav before it, and UC before it. If you think TB difficulty will be anywhere in the same zip code as Cav is now, you're missing the plot. Cav difficulty is targeted at mid-range Cavs trying to grind out rewards to progress them slowly towards TB. The easy path is there for the new Cavs to work on, but the presumption is new Cavs aren't necessarily going to be able to explore Cav (or even guaranteed do the easy path all the time either). TB difficulty would be targeted at the middle of the TB pack to help them slowly grind towards whatever comes after TB.

I have never failed a Cav monthly EQ. I've never come close to failing to complete a path in Cav EQ. I've never come close to spending more than expiring potions on Cav EQ. I generally blitz the entire thing in a weekend or so. *I* am probably a middle tier TB. TB tier EQ would aim to be very difficult for someone like me to complete. Roughly speaking, that would be content about three times harder than Cav EQ is now, assuming I don't get any stronger before it arrives. Because it probably won't arrive before the next title does, for the obvious reason that there's no higher title for TB players to need an EQ to grind towards yet.

So imagine an EQ where the minions are all about the strength of the Cav bosses. That's probably where TB EQ lands. The tweaks they are doing to Cav EQ are miniscule in comparison, and nowhere near approaching hypothetical TB difficulty.

Demonzfyre · November 2021

te_dua_shum said:

Demonzfyre said:

GarrettN said:
At this point why not just make a thronebreaker difficulty and save some trouble?
So changing from class to tags increases difficutly?
I would say yes if you consider that there are only six classes but much more tags, so it's easier to have a couple of ranked champions for each class than for each tag, even if they group more tags together. I don't want to say anything about rewards, but I do believe that going by tags makes those nodes harder to take advantage of ^_^

Jaded said:

Demonzfyre said:

GarrettN said:
At this point why not just make a thronebreaker difficulty and save some trouble?
So changing from class to tags increases difficutly?
Like @te_dua_shum mentioned, I’ll add that for example you take the #avenger tag. Personally I don’t have a single avenger above 6*r1 or 5*r4 but have full teams of every class at 5*r5 or 6*r3. So difficultly is raised if people don’t have those champions ranked. Although if the levels are made so any champion can do it but take longer then that’s okay it just sucks to take more time out of people’s life’s.

I dislike both class and the tags just as a heads up. Hate both things completely. Wish they'd do away with altogether. But I don't think it warrants an increase in difficulty.

But the argument y'all are making is the same for the class restrictions. Some had diverse skill rosters some didn't.

phil56201 · November 2021

There doesn't seem to be anything to benefit #X-Men. Wonder if this new system will cycle different hashtags for different months? Seems much more limiting. I'll wait until it's live before making a definitive judgement, but it doesn't look great going by the description...

Jaded · November 2021

Demonzfyre said:

te_dua_shum said:

Demonzfyre said:

GarrettN said:
At this point why not just make a thronebreaker difficulty and save some trouble?
So changing from class to tags increases difficutly?
I would say yes if you consider that there are only six classes but much more tags, so it's easier to have a couple of ranked champions for each class than for each tag, even if they group more tags together. I don't want to say anything about rewards, but I do believe that going by tags makes those nodes harder to take advantage of ^_^

Jaded said:

Demonzfyre said:

GarrettN said:
At this point why not just make a thronebreaker difficulty and save some trouble?
So changing from class to tags increases difficutly?
Like @te_dua_shum mentioned, I’ll add that for example you take the #avenger tag. Personally I don’t have a single avenger above 6*r1 or 5*r4 but have full teams of every class at 5*r5 or 6*r3. So difficultly is raised if people don’t have those champions ranked. Although if the levels are made so any champion can do it but take longer then that’s okay it just sucks to take more time out of people’s life’s.
I dislike both class and the tags just as a heads up. Hate both things completely. Wish they'd do away with altogether. But I don't think it warrants an increase in difficulty.

But the argument y'all are making is the same for the class restrictions. Some had diverse skill rosters some didn't.

Well yes and no it’s the same but still different. There are far more mutants overall then there is avengers. It’s just about making the window of availability less.

Again I’m sure we will be able to use any champion to complete the majority of the lanes. I’m not overly worried, I personally just don’t agree with limited non permanent content to tags.

te_dua_shum · November 2021

@Demonzfyre having less ranked champions is still better than not having ranked champions ^_^ And I don't believe that a player that regularly explore cav difficulty doesn't have at least a couple of ranked champion for each class, but it's harder to actually have a couple of ranked champion for each tag ^_^

Demonzfyre · November 2021

te_dua_shum said:
@Demonzfyre having less ranked champions is still better than not having ranked champions ^_^ And I don't believe that a player that regularly explore cav difficulty doesn't have at least a couple of ranked champion for each class, but it's harder to actually have a couple of ranked champion for each tag ^_^

I looked at AuntM because I was thinking the same but the tags are a little more expansive than I thought. Inhumans is pretty restrictive but you have 2 other tags to go with it. Unless they are planning on 1 tag per chapter.......

Demonzfyre · November 2021

phil56201 said:
There doesn't seem to be anything to benefit #X-Men. Wonder if this new system will cycle different hashtags for different months? Seems much more limiting. I'll wait until it's live before making a definitive judgement, but it doesn't look great going by the description...

it says there won't be any new buffs for a while...

te_dua_shum · November 2021

Demonzfyre said:

I looked at AuntM because I was thinking the same but the tags are a little more expansive than I thought. Inhumans is pretty restrictive but you have 2 other tags to go with it. Unless they are planning on 1 tag per chapter.......

Some combinations yes, some aren't. The Mercenary/GOTG one is the more problematic for me with only Platinumpool being ranked, and I don't see how can groot be useful in a quest, but I will reserve any additional opinion until I will have tried those nodes myself ^_^

AverageDesi · November 2021

Demonzfyre said:

te_dua_shum said:

Demonzfyre said:

GarrettN said:
At this point why not just make a thronebreaker difficulty and save some trouble?
So changing from class to tags increases difficutly?
I would say yes if you consider that there are only six classes but much more tags, so it's easier to have a couple of ranked champions for each class than for each tag, even if they group more tags together. I don't want to say anything about rewards, but I do believe that going by tags makes those nodes harder to take advantage of ^_^

Jaded said:

Demonzfyre said:

GarrettN said:
At this point why not just make a thronebreaker difficulty and save some trouble?
So changing from class to tags increases difficutly?
Like @te_dua_shum mentioned, I’ll add that for example you take the #avenger tag. Personally I don’t have a single avenger above 6*r1 or 5*r4 but have full teams of every class at 5*r5 or 6*r3. So difficultly is raised if people don’t have those champions ranked. Although if the levels are made so any champion can do it but take longer then that’s okay it just sucks to take more time out of people’s life’s.
I dislike both class and the tags just as a heads up. Hate both things completely. Wish they'd do away with altogether. But I don't think it warrants an increase in difficulty.

But the argument y'all are making is the same for the class restrictions. Some had diverse skill rosters some didn't.

Not really the same thing. People do rank ups based on class all the time. Especially since you are bound to get catalysts in all classes equally.

If I get excess mystic t5cc i look to my mystic roster and rank the best champ I have. I have never ever done rankups based on whether or not I have a #avenger ranked up

TyEdge · November 2021

You know why this is worse? Most of the champs under these designations suck, so we haven’t ranked many of them. Even if the PIs remain the same, these tags may push some to invest in different champs to speed up this content. It’s no coincidence that they release it a few days after we all got piles of catalysts.

Demonzfyre · November 2021

AverageDesi said:

Demonzfyre said:

te_dua_shum said:

Demonzfyre said:

GarrettN said:
At this point why not just make a thronebreaker difficulty and save some trouble?
So changing from class to tags increases difficutly?
I would say yes if you consider that there are only six classes but much more tags, so it's easier to have a couple of ranked champions for each class than for each tag, even if they group more tags together. I don't want to say anything about rewards, but I do believe that going by tags makes those nodes harder to take advantage of ^_^

Jaded said:

Demonzfyre said:

GarrettN said:
At this point why not just make a thronebreaker difficulty and save some trouble?
So changing from class to tags increases difficutly?
Like @te_dua_shum mentioned, I’ll add that for example you take the #avenger tag. Personally I don’t have a single avenger above 6*r1 or 5*r4 but have full teams of every class at 5*r5 or 6*r3. So difficultly is raised if people don’t have those champions ranked. Although if the levels are made so any champion can do it but take longer then that’s okay it just sucks to take more time out of people’s life’s.
I dislike both class and the tags just as a heads up. Hate both things completely. Wish they'd do away with altogether. But I don't think it warrants an increase in difficulty.

But the argument y'all are making is the same for the class restrictions. Some had diverse skill rosters some didn't.
Not really the same thing. People do rank ups based on class all the time. Especially since you are bound to get catalysts in all classes equally.

If I get excess mystic t5cc i look to my mystic roster and rank the best champ I have. I have never ever done rankups based on whether or not I have a #avenger ranked up

By diverse, I mean they don't have those options to rank. Missing from their roster.

Colinwhitworth69 · November 2021

I'll reserve judgment until I try it out. But on paper this is disappointing and another example of a change being made that no players wanted.

If this doesn't come with a rewards bump, then it is a sharp stick in the eye that, after months of struggling with the game's controls, we do not deserve.

baskinrobbinsknows · November 2021

Guess I'll be skipping this month since I only have a few of those champs ranked up. Oh well, there's always next month

Hopper13131 · November 2021

Demonzfyre said:

GarrettN said:
At this point why not just make a thronebreaker difficulty and save some trouble?
So changing from class to tags increases difficutly?

Considering only a few of the S-tier champions have any of these tags, I'd say the difficulty will be higher. Looking at these tags, 0 of my 7 r3 6*s fit any of them (doom, Hercules, apoc, AA, prof X, moleman, g2099) (someone feel free to correct me here if I missed a tag that fits someone in that list). And of my 20 r5 5*s, only a few of them fit those tags. So for many of these quests, I won't really be able to use most of the champions that I've invested in.
This change seems to promote players to move away from just using and ranking up the god-tier champions. Whether this is a good or a bad thing, I'm not sure. But I will say, it's going to feel pretty lame ranking up low-middle tier champions just to use them in one quest for EQ.

All of those resources I used from cyber weekend went into champions that don't fit any of these tags, and that feels pretty awful. We'll have to see how it feels tomorrow though, but I don't think I'll be able to push through cav EQ with mostly r1 6*s and r4/r5 5*s without units. We should see better synergies though, but I don't think synergies make up the difference when I could be using r2/r3 6*s if it were class-based quests

Jaded · November 2021

baskinrobbinsknows said:
Guess I'll be skipping this month since I only have a few of those champs ranked up. Oh well, there's always next month

I think this is a little extreme. In the past we were still able to use any champion we wanted in the levels even if there was specific class bonuses. I use to use warlock/g99 on the mutant level that inflicted bleed on the attacker. The levels are locked to the specific tags.

Colinwhitworth69 · November 2021

DNA3000 said:

GarrettN said:
At this point why not just make a thronebreaker difficulty and save some trouble?
Also, I remember when people were begging for Cav difficulty, and I predicted when it arrived people would be constantly complaining about it, because it would take the spot that Uncollected originally had: being the top tier difficulty with the most experimentation in difficulty design. I wasn't disappointed.

Thronebreaker difficulty, if and when it arrives, is going to scale similarly to Cav before it, and UC before it. If you think TB difficulty will be anywhere in the same zip code as Cav is now, you're missing the plot. Cav difficulty is targeted at mid-range Cavs trying to grind out rewards to progress them slowly towards TB. The easy path is there for the new Cavs to work on, but the presumption is new Cavs aren't necessarily going to be able to explore Cav (or even guaranteed do the easy path all the time either). TB difficulty would be targeted at the middle of the TB pack to help them slowly grind towards whatever comes after TB.

I have never failed a Cav monthly EQ. I've never come close to failing to complete a path in Cav EQ. I've never come close to spending more than expiring potions on Cav EQ. I generally blitz the entire thing in a weekend or so. *I* am probably a middle tier TB. TB tier EQ would aim to be very difficult for someone like me to complete. Roughly speaking, that would be content about three times harder than Cav EQ is now, assuming I don't get any stronger before it arrives. Because it probably won't arrive before the next title does, for the obvious reason that there's no higher title for TB players to need an EQ to grind towards yet.

So imagine an EQ where the minions are all about the strength of the Cav bosses. That's probably where TB EQ lands. The tweaks they are doing to Cav EQ are miniscule in comparison, and nowhere near approaching hypothetical TB difficulty.

I just wish someone at Kabam cared about whether their game was fun to play, rather than a grind that we have to get through so we can do it all over again in a month.

And it was a lousy move to do this right after many players just used their CW bounty to rank up champs based on reasons completely unrelated to champion tags. Had they announced this a week ago, people could have used that stuff to prep for the tag-based paths.

Demonzfyre · November 2021

GarrettN said:
@Demonzfyre i see the point you’re trying to make but making changes on a difficulty that’s already been set and people have made rank ups for means that their characters are now worth a lot less. Angela cleaned up on cavalier before. Now because she has no tags, she doesn’t get used. I took red guardian up for his usefulness in the science chapters. Now he’s irrelevant. The more logical thing would be to create a new difficulty level with the tag system or an event.

Completely disagree. There's not a single person ranking champs just for Cav MEQ's. That's just not happening. This is coming from someone who has a R4 6* Silver Centurion who has none of those tags either. I just posted all the champs on my other thread but rewards don't need increased because you can't use Angela. it's also just like the last iteration where you can use her, just can' take advantage of nodes.

Demonzfyre · November 2021

Hopper13131 said:

Demonzfyre said:

GarrettN said:
At this point why not just make a thronebreaker difficulty and save some trouble?
So changing from class to tags increases difficutly?
Considering only a few of the S-tier champions have any of these tags, I'd say the difficulty will be higher. Looking at these tags, 0 of my 7 r3 6*s fit any of them (doom, Hercules, apoc, AA, prof X, moleman, g2099) (someone feel free to correct me here if I missed a tag that fits someone in that list). And of my 20 r5 5*s, only a few of them fit those tags. So for many of these quests, I won't really be able to use most of the champions that I've invested in.
This change seems to promote players to move away from just using and ranking up the god-tier champions. Whether this is a good or a bad thing, I'm not sure. But I will say, it's going to feel pretty lame ranking up low-middle tier champions just to use them in one quest for EQ.

All of those resources I used from cyber weekend went into champions that don't fit any of these tags, and that feels pretty awful. We'll have to see how it feels tomorrow though, but I don't think I'll be able to push through cav EQ with mostly r1 6*s and r4/r5 5*s without units. We should see better synergies though, but I don't think synergies make up the difference when I could be using r2/r3 6*s if it were class-based quests

Those champs didn't always fit the global nodes for Cav EQ either though. And be honest, you did not rank up Doom for just Cav MEQ.

TimeGenesis · November 2021

It's too early to judge what these 'buffs'will be like without actually seeing them first but had a quick look of each of the tags I have in my roster.

Currently I have 30x5R5, 1x6R4, 16x6R3, 24x6R2 so I would say I have a fairly large roster but I do still have some weakness in Organization tags

Number of Champs at 5R5 / 6R2 or above for me for each tags.

Guardians Of Galaxy: 0
Symbiote : 5
X-men: 11
Illimunati: 3
Inhuman: 1 (Quake)
Avengers: 6
New Avengers: 3
Shield: 4
Defenders: 1
Sinister 6: 0
Thunderbolts: 1
X-Force: 4
Kree: 2
Champions: 2
A-Force: 5
Chronos Corps: 2
Thanos Army: 2
F4: 4
Alpha Flight: 2
Bewhiskered: 10

(i have these but idk what this tag is for)
CivilWar - Iron Man : 0
CivilWar - CaptAmerica: 0
Stark Tech: 0

Whilst Cav mEQ do give benefits to each class, there are times that I actually ended up using champs that dont get the benefits of the buff but works well with the nodes. So hopefully it wont be too limited but looking forward to it.

SirGamesBond · November 2021

Rewards update..? Intresting
👀

Nix2222 · November 2021

I’m actually excited to try something non-class based. I really wish there were more areas of the game that we could really experiment and utilize synergies more. With so many fights requiring specific class/champ counters I don’t feel like I get to try out some synergies that look fun. Not sure this will be any better but it’s a change of pace at least. We’ll have to see how it plays out.

So if cav difficulty is getting tweaked and more complicated, are the rewards going to reflect it?

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