There's no expiration date on a bug. If it's not intended, then it's subject to fixing whenever.
Sure. And if the team leaves it in place for a year and half, fails to respond to players asking about it and doesn’t explicitly call it out in easy to find locations, there’s also reliance that deserves redress.
Dr. Zola
So because they didn't fix it immediately, they changed the fact that it was a bug?
Strawmanning. I trust you can see there’s a fair gap between “immediately” and “a year and a half—with no readily findable comment.”
Dr. Zola
That's where I disagree. A bug is a bug, day 1 after, or 20 years after.
You know what sad part is, no one cares as much as people used to.
If this was at the height of the game it would have exploded.
Sad but true people are loosing intrest.
Yeah the only ones still active on forums ar kabam's white knights. As if their opinion was in any way representitive of what the community thinks. When someone points out that something kabam is doing is wrong there they come to disagree with you and to make you look like the fool for thinking that your opinion means something. The direction this game is taking is selfdestructive. They keep doing stuff to annoy the player base and I genuinely fail to realize just why. Like wtf I wanted to spend money tomorrow and now I'm so annoyed at Kabam for what they're doing to mole man that I'm nlt buying any offers.
If true accuracy will be removed always when Frenzy starts regardless of charge count, I expect rank-down tickets to be issued. Half of the reason to bring him on a team is his ability to shut down evade while dealing out large amounts of bleeds and crits.
This "fix" is too far of a nerf. It makes sense to remove the bug where you keep true accuracy when you heavy past 10 charges for sure. That creates the tradeoff having to manage stacks above 0 but below 10. I'd be happier if stacks drop off faster over time the longer you are in frenzy to shorten the window of damage vs. this adjustment.
I'll even propose a new option, put in a condition to his kit where you need both a shock and bleed on the opponent when you go into frenzy, it combines and converts back to true accuracy with a limited duration. Now the bleed/shock immune evaders aren't as easy a matchup and there's a minigame involved to keep true accuracy while in frenzy.
There's no expiration date on a bug. If it's not intended, then it's subject to fixing whenever.
Sure. And if the team leaves it in place for a year and half, fails to respond to players asking about it and doesn’t explicitly call it out in easy to find locations, there’s also reliance that deserves redress.
Dr. Zola
So because they didn't fix it immediately, they changed the fact that it was a bug?
Strawmanning. I trust you can see there’s a fair gap between “immediately” and “a year and a half—with no readily findable comment.”
Dr. Zola
That's where I disagree. A bug is a bug, day 1 after, or 20 years after.
To quote a great man, ‘only a Sith deals in absolutes.’ Over a year is a long time by any stretch of the imagination. A year and 4 months ago I was in a different house, in a different job, I didn’t have a puppy. I’m gaming terms it’s a huge amount of time, that’s longer than the average shelf life of most mobile games, it’s longer than the shelf life of the majority AAA+ console games - there’s a new CoD and FIFA every year for crying out loud.
An unacknowledged ‘bug’, which isn’t really a bug, but actually poor wording likely misunderstood by the coders and then not properly play tested in concert with those who designed the champion, lasting for this long is a farce. For this to last this long after being specifically asked about a host of times and be ignored and then simply slash the champion’s uses in half is just bad.
Ah man I was looking for this post and I'm glad it's at the top. I have always said never to rank a champ specifically for their beneficial bug and this proves it. For the people saying they didn't read it or asking if they expect people to read a champs abilities before ranking. Yes. That's important when making a rank choice and to know what interactions should be happening. This has been a confirmed bug since his update. Where announced by kabam or not, it was talked about amongst the player base for the longest time as well. There are specific cases when RDT should be applied, but they are rare and this is not one of them. We go through the same song and dance each time a bug is fixed on a champ. This also goes to show that not all player pro bugs get fixed right away as is always shouted out. Also the argument for its been a bug for so long so it should stay is dumb logic. Just because it took them long to fix it doesn't mean it should be a permanent part of the kit. That type of logic could then be applied to all sorts of bugs both beneficial and not.
The wording of when MM kept TA never changed from his original release to after he was buffed. All that changed in the description is the amount of mass needed to lose it. The way it worked in game changed which is why plenty of us have been saying this would be fixed for over a year now.
I get people not liking the change but you genuinely don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to being mad about it. People complain pro player bugs get fixed immediately and now are complaining they left this one in game for too long... come on.
Should the communication have been better? Absolutely. Most people know what to expect as far as communication at this point though so if they aren't taking upon themselves to actually read and understand things, well that's on them.
This sucks. I knew it might happen some day, but was really hoping it wouldnt seeming as its been going on so long. Used my champ selector last year to pick him up. He was my go to for evade countering. Just heavy twice, hold block til they hit you then game.
Many of those saying it doesn't change him much are also the ones saying they dont regularly use him. He'll still be good, but he wont be top and I def have better options. Glad mine is only r3.
I dont expect Kabam to compensate for this, but it would be a great gesture, as it does completely change the champ, imo.
His True Accuracy has always fallen off at some point. Before the buff even. People were aware. They got a year and a half of use out of the bug. We can't fault them for fixing something that wasn't intentional.
bruh, you have no idea how he works. "at some point" lol.
Bruh. It's called wording.
Firstly, if you read the comment, they have not once called it a bug. @TheBair123 actually went through EVERY mod comment seeing this. They have NEVER addressed this issue. There have been double digit threads asking about it, met by radio silence. Secondly, if you actually know what you are doing, you will NEVER lose true accuracy, which showing me your maxed 5*, yet not knowing that, provides me with that conclusion.
Reading is fundamental. I said fallen off. Not lost.
lmao. Read your own comments. In context, what does fallen off mean? Will the buff fall to the ground of the arena floor?
Are you arguing for the sake of it? I'm not interested.
lol. maybe actually use your champ instead of flashing it here
I've used him. I've known it wasn't working properly. I got some good use out of it like everyone else. I'm cool with them fixing it. That's the end of the story. I didn't Rank him for show.
His True Accuracy has always fallen off at some point. Before the buff even. People were aware. They got a year and a half of use out of the bug. We can't fault them for fixing something that wasn't intentional.
bruh, you have no idea how he works. "at some point" lol.
Bruh. It's called wording.
That is a nice moleman you have there. I have one too. This fix is quite the blow to him. I wish they would change the way he works in the sense that his true accuracy stays when you are below 10 monster mass, regardless if youre in Frenzy mode or not. I get his text always said that true accuracy falls off when in Frenzy mode, but its insane he worked the way he has worked for such a long time. Its hard for me and many others in the community to accept this "fix".
He was such a great evade counter, and while he now can still counter evade, those fights will take way longer. Big ouch.
What are your thoughts on that? Will you still use your moleman as often?
His True Accuracy has always fallen off at some point. Before the buff even. People were aware. They got a year and a half of use out of the bug. We can't fault them for fixing something that wasn't intentional.
bruh, you have no idea how he works. "at some point" lol.
Bruh. It's called wording.
That is a nice moleman you have there. I have one too. This fix is quite the blow to him. I wish they would change the way he works in the sense that his true accuracy stays when you are below 10 monster mass, regardless if youre in Frenzy mode or not. I get his text always said that true accuracy falls off when in Frenzy mode, but its insane he worked the way he has worked for such a long time. Its hard for me and many others in the community to accept this "fix".
He was such a great evade counter, and while he now can still counter evade, those fights will take way longer. Big ouch.
What are your thoughts on that? Will you still use your moleman as often?
That's why I ranked and used him because under 10 charges when activating Frenzy, he kept True Accuracy.
I waited a LONG time before ranking to ensure it wasn't a "bug" and after reading his abilities, it shouldn't be an issue keeping it the way it has worked for over a year now after his buff.
This is ridiculous if this change happens like this. It makes him useless a lot of the time and makes me not want him ranked. Better options and this change isn't needed as it doesn't make him overpowered.
Everyone said day 1 of his buff that it was a bug. Waiting for a long time doesn't change that. Also moleman is far from useless lmao. He's easily still a top 3 skill imo
@sleimon You're delusional if you think he's better than Nick Fury, Shang Chi, Falcon, KP, Black Cat, Hit Monkey, Masacre, or even Aegon. I honestly never ranked my 6* Moleman because I knew he'd get fixed eventually but calling him a top 3 skill after this nerf is just straight up crazy. He loses all of his utility in exchange for damage, now. This makes him redundant in war where you need both in order to do a majority of fights.
The wording of when MM kept TA never changed from his original release to after he was buffed. All that changed in the description is the amount of mass needed to lose it. The way it worked in game changed which is why plenty of us have been saying this would be fixed for over a year now.
I get people not liking the change but you genuinely don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to being mad about it. People complain pro player bugs get fixed immediately and now are complaining they left this one in game for too long... come on.
Should the communication have been better? Absolutely. Most people know what to expect as far as communication at this point though so if they aren't taking upon themselves to actually read and understand things, well that's on them.
I get that, and honestly it doesn’t really affect me as I only pulled him last month, but I think the whole fixing of bugs in a timely fashion should just be par for the course. I know a lot of people who put off ranking him for a while because of him being bugged and when there’s no clarity eventually you just go for it. As I said earlier what they should have done is simply changed the wording, especially as he’s become a champion that so many love and use on a regular basis and ultimately their ambition should be maximising engagement with each champion they design.
His True Accuracy has always fallen off at some point. Before the buff even. People were aware. They got a year and a half of use out of the bug. We can't fault them for fixing something that wasn't intentional.
bruh, you have no idea how he works. "at some point" lol.
Bruh. It's called wording.
That is a nice moleman you have there. I have one too. This fix is quite the blow to him. I wish they would change the way he works in the sense that his true accuracy stays when you are below 10 monster mass, regardless if youre in Frenzy mode or not. I get his text always said that true accuracy falls off when in Frenzy mode, but its insane he worked the way he has worked for such a long time. Its hard for me and many others in the community to accept this "fix".
He was such a great evade counter, and while he now can still counter evade, those fights will take way longer. Big ouch.
What are your thoughts on that? Will you still use your moleman as often?
Sure I will. He is a good Champ fixed or not.
Do you hope they just change his text and not remove true accuracy in frenzy mode as long as you stay below 10 monster mass? Wouldnt that be nice? He is a great evade counter because of that.
I get there was a way to keep true focus while even above 10 monster mass, and I personally never used it. Not on purpose at least. I always kept monster mass between 5 and 8.
Mine is a rank 3 and one of my few good skill champs as a 6 star. This stings.
Alternatively, maybe just leave Moleman as he is. I don't want to over react. I don't think this ruins Moley, but I don't think this "bug" is game breaking, either. Obviously it isn't since it has been in the game for so long. I'd prefer we keep him as is and change his ability description to match his current abilities.
The wording of when MM kept TA never changed from his original release to after he was buffed. All that changed in the description is the amount of mass needed to lose it. The way it worked in game changed which is why plenty of us have been saying this would be fixed for over a year now.
I get people not liking the change but you genuinely don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to being mad about it. People complain pro player bugs get fixed immediately and now are complaining they left this one in game for too long... come on.
Should the communication have been better? Absolutely. Most people know what to expect as far as communication at this point though so if they aren't taking upon themselves to actually read and understand things, well that's on them.
I don’t think it’s unrealistic to hold Kabam to the same type of reasonable conduct as other companies. I’m always perplexed people think products sold in phone games are off in a strange customer service universe unto themselves.
I have a 5* Moleman of some rank—not sure if he’s aR2 or R3 since I don’t use him. I am not “angry.” Absent the handling of threads asking about Moleman, I’m not sure I’d even care much at all.
But the lack of communication over a year and a half is the point. There’s just no question the company should do better and when they don’t (like here), they should offer redress.
This one is simple. Whether it’s a bug or not does not matter.
The only sensible solution is to change the description rather than change the ability.
That will not upset anybody.
He may not be as intended but neither is he game breaking.
Just change the description in the game and everyone’s happy.
Cool, so all the dex, parry and input issues can just be part of the game right? Don't fix the bugs, just make them part of the game?
I have MM as an R3. I took him up knowing about the big and played like he was normal. I don't care if they fix him or leave him the way he is. I don't use him enough to have that strong of an opinion.
But to say " don't fix a bug because it makes the community happy" just isn't how things work.
After 2 years it's too long. Change the description. The entire community knowledge on this champ is built on his current functionality. This is a pointless change and just as I was getting back into the game and considering a little drop on July 4th, I am just as ready to stop playing again. Stop punishing players for your long overdue bug fixes, Kabam. Let it rest.
It hasn't been 2 years. It's amazing how now they're punishing you for a pro player bug and y'all claim they fix them ASAP. Then they don't fix it ASAP and y'all mad they didn't just make.it an ability.
At some point, y'all just need to make up your mind.
His True Accuracy has always fallen off at some point. Before the buff even. People were aware. They got a year and a half of use out of the bug. We can't fault them for fixing something that wasn't intentional.
bruh, you have no idea how he works. "at some point" lol.
Bruh. It's called wording.
That is a nice moleman you have there. I have one too. This fix is quite the blow to him. I wish they would change the way he works in the sense that his true accuracy stays when you are below 10 monster mass, regardless if youre in Frenzy mode or not. I get his text always said that true accuracy falls off when in Frenzy mode, but its insane he worked the way he has worked for such a long time. Its hard for me and many others in the community to accept this "fix".
He was such a great evade counter, and while he now can still counter evade, those fights will take way longer. Big ouch.
What are your thoughts on that? Will you still use your moleman as often?
Sure I will. He is a good Champ fixed or not.
Do you hope they just change his text and not remove true accuracy in frenzy mode as long as you stay below 10 monster mass? Wouldnt that be nice? He is a great evade counter because of that.
I get there was a way to keep true focus while even above 10 monster mass, and I personally never used it. Not on purpose at least. I always kept monster mass between 5 and 8.
Mine is a rank 3 and one of my few good skill champs as a 6 star. This stings.
Do I hope? Well, I would like it, sure. If they see a reason to fix it, then I'm cool with accepting that as well.
That's why I ranked and used him because under 10 charges when activating Frenzy, he kept True Accuracy.
I waited a LONG time before ranking to ensure it wasn't a "bug" and after reading his abilities, it shouldn't be an issue keeping it the way it has worked for over a year now after his buff.
This is ridiculous if this change happens like this. It makes him useless a lot of the time and makes me not want him ranked. Better options and this change isn't needed as it doesn't make him overpowered.
Everyone said day 1 of his buff that it was a bug. Waiting for a long time doesn't change that. Also moleman is far from useless lmao. He's easily still a top 3 skill imo
@sleimon You're delusional if you think he's better than Nick Fury, Shang Chi, Falcon, KP, Black Cat, Hit Monkey, Masacre, or even Aegon. I honestly never ranked my 6* Moleman because I knew he'd get fixed eventually but calling him a top 3 skill after this nerf is just straight up crazy. He loses all of his utility in exchange for damage, now. This makes him redundant in war where you need both in order to do a majority of fights.
lol trust me, ik what I'm talking about, getting rude about it and calling me delusional is not cool. I don't think he's better than nick and kp, but everyone else you named, he's better than.
After 2 years it's too long. Change the description. The entire community knowledge on this champ is built on his current functionality. This is a pointless change and just as I was getting back into the game and considering a little drop on July 4th, I am just as ready to stop playing again. Stop punishing players for your long overdue bug fixes, Kabam. Let it rest.
This was definitely a sure fire way to make people think twice about spending on July 4th (Holiday Deals Weekend) because maybe some wanted Mole Man for how he currently works.
And another coild be this is showing that even though it was discussed in length, we never got an answer and people ranked based on HOW Mole Man currently is working.
The silence on the backlash is Deafening whilst other champs needing to be fixed (Kingoin anyone) that are not functioning properly are not touched.
It definitely puts me off toward spending any amount when this happens.
*raises hand* - he is the one top skill champ missing as a 6* (maxed my 5* due to it) but now..not sure how desperate I am for him. Certainly not desperate enough to go hard this weekend now. If i get him I'll keep at r2/r3 until his usefulness can be reassessed in all evade situations vs other evade counters like falcon, SC etc. I always value utility over damage.
If you would go all I on July 4th deals just because of Moleman, I think you should be glad that this nerf is anounced. Spending 500$ for a chance of 1!!! Champ, that wouldn’t be the smart choice.
After 2 years it's too long. Change the description. The entire community knowledge on this champ is built on his current functionality. This is a pointless change and just as I was getting back into the game and considering a little drop on July 4th, I am just as ready to stop playing again. Stop punishing players for your long overdue bug fixes, Kabam. Let it rest.
This was definitely a sure fire way to make people think twice about spending on July 4th (Holiday Deals Weekend) because maybe some wanted Mole Man for how he currently works.
And another coild be this is showing that even though it was discussed in length, we never got an answer and people ranked based on HOW Mole Man currently is working.
The silence on the backlash is Deafening whilst other champs needing to be fixed (Kingoin anyone) that are not functioning properly are not touched.
It definitely puts me off toward spending any amount when this happens.
*raises hand* - he is the one top skill champ missing as a 6* (maxed my 5* due to it) but now..not sure how desperate I am for him. Certainly not desperate enough to go hard this weekend now. If i get him I'll keep at r2/r3 until his usefulness can be reassessed in all evade situations vs other evade counters like falcon, SC etc. I always value utility over damage.
If you would go all I on July 4th deals just because of Moleman, I think you should be glad that this nerf is anounced. Spending 500$ for a chance of 1!!! Champ, that wouldn’t be the smart choice.
Going hard doesn't mean I am buying all the cash deals.. it means I would have been using whatever units and/or cash I budgeted in trying to get the champs I am missing (which included him, Knull, antivenom & hercules). This bug fix means one less champ I will focus on.
He's not the amazing long-lasting evade counter he was anymore, and if that part of his kit was not working as intended I can understand fixing it.
BUT why not acknowledge it as a bug? Why not acknowledge that this was being looked into? All of this confusion could have been avoided if it was just formally stated by the mods/devs that this is being looked into as a potential change a la King Groot. Also I think re-parry as a mechanic was left in and no adjustments were made to patch it out because the community liked it so much, and now there's even a node that rewards that skill and only lets you parry the second hit. Maybe I'm getting things mixed up or imagining them, older forum members please correct me if I am.
There's no expiration date on a bug. If it's not intended, then it's subject to fixing whenever.
Sure. And if the team leaves it in place for a year and half, fails to respond to players asking about it and doesn’t explicitly call it out in easy to find locations, there’s also reliance that deserves redress.
Dr. Zola
So because they didn't fix it immediately, they changed the fact that it was a bug?
Strawmanning. I trust you can see there’s a fair gap between “immediately” and “a year and a half—with no readily findable comment.”
Dr. Zola
That's where I disagree. A bug is a bug, day 1 after, or 20 years after.
You can't argue with kind of reasoning.. there are even regulations in several areas/disciplines that if you do not adress an issue or have taken actions nor adress it.. it should be considered that the current situation as - is should be accepted ?
His True Accuracy has always fallen off at some point. Before the buff even. People were aware. They got a year and a half of use out of the bug. We can't fault them for fixing something that wasn't intentional.
bruh, you have no idea how he works. "at some point" lol.
Bruh. It's called wording.
Firstly, if you read the comment, they have not once called it a bug. @TheBair123 actually went through EVERY mod comment seeing this. They have NEVER addressed this issue. There have been double digit threads asking about it, met by radio silence. Secondly, if you actually know what you are doing, you will NEVER lose true accuracy, which showing me your maxed 5*, yet not knowing that, provides me with that conclusion.
Reading is fundamental. I said fallen off. Not lost.
lmao. Read your own comments. In context, what does fallen off mean? Will the buff fall to the ground of the arena floor?
Are you arguing for the sake of it? I'm not interested.
lol. maybe actually use your champ instead of flashing it here
I've used him. I've known it wasn't working properly. I got some good use out of it like everyone else. I'm cool with them fixing it. That's the end of the story. I didn't Rank him for show.
His True Accuracy has always fallen off at some point. Before the buff even. People were aware. They got a year and a half of use out of the bug. We can't fault them for fixing something that wasn't intentional.
bruh, you have no idea how he works. "at some point" lol.
Bruh. It's called wording.
That is a nice moleman you have there. I have one too. This fix is quite the blow to him. I wish they would change the way he works in the sense that his true accuracy stays when you are below 10 monster mass, regardless if youre in Frenzy mode or not. I get his text always said that true accuracy falls off when in Frenzy mode, but its insane he worked the way he has worked for such a long time. Its hard for me and many others in the community to accept this "fix".
He was such a great evade counter, and while he now can still counter evade, those fights will take way longer. Big ouch.
What are your thoughts on that? Will you still use your moleman as often?
Sure I will. He is a good Champ fixed or not.
Do you hope they just change his text and not remove true accuracy in frenzy mode as long as you stay below 10 monster mass? Wouldnt that be nice? He is a great evade counter because of that.
I get there was a way to keep true focus while even above 10 monster mass, and I personally never used it. Not on purpose at least. I always kept monster mass between 5 and 8.
Mine is a rank 3 and one of my few good skill champs as a 6 star. This stings.
Do I hope? Well, I would like it, sure. If they see a reason to fix it, then I'm cool with accepting that as well.
Thank you for this answer. Im gonna sit in my sad corner now.
Comments
This "fix" is too far of a nerf. It makes sense to remove the bug where you keep true accuracy when you heavy past 10 charges for sure. That creates the tradeoff having to manage stacks above 0 but below 10. I'd be happier if stacks drop off faster over time the longer you are in frenzy to shorten the window of damage vs. this adjustment.
I'll even propose a new option, put in a condition to his kit where you need both a shock and bleed on the opponent when you go into frenzy, it combines and converts back to true accuracy with a limited duration. Now the bleed/shock immune evaders aren't as easy a matchup and there's a minigame involved to keep true accuracy while in frenzy.
You're welcome Kabam.
An unacknowledged ‘bug’, which isn’t really a bug, but actually poor wording likely misunderstood by the coders and then not properly play tested in concert with those who designed the champion, lasting for this long is a farce. For this to last this long after being specifically asked about a host of times and be ignored and then simply slash the champion’s uses in half is just bad.
The wording of when MM kept TA never changed from his original release to after he was buffed. All that changed in the description is the amount of mass needed to lose it. The way it worked in game changed which is why plenty of us have been saying this would be fixed for over a year now.
I get people not liking the change but you genuinely don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to being mad about it. People complain pro player bugs get fixed immediately and now are complaining they left this one in game for too long... come on.
Should the communication have been better? Absolutely. Most people know what to expect as far as communication at this point though so if they aren't taking upon themselves to actually read and understand things, well that's on them.
Many of those saying it doesn't change him much are also the ones saying they dont regularly use him. He'll still be good, but he wont be top and I def have better options. Glad mine is only r3.
I dont expect Kabam to compensate for this, but it would be a great gesture, as it does completely change the champ, imo.
He was such a great evade counter, and while he now can still counter evade, those fights will take way longer. Big ouch.
What are your thoughts on that? Will you still use your moleman as often?
To do it just before 4th July is quite amusing.
Do you hope they just change his text and not remove true accuracy in frenzy mode as long as you stay below 10 monster mass? Wouldnt that be nice? He is a great evade counter because of that.
I get there was a way to keep true focus while even above 10 monster mass, and I personally never used it. Not on purpose at least. I always kept monster mass between 5 and 8.
Mine is a rank 3 and one of my few good skill champs as a 6 star. This stings.
I have a 5* Moleman of some rank—not sure if he’s aR2 or R3 since I don’t use him. I am not “angry.” Absent the handling of threads asking about Moleman, I’m not sure I’d even care much at all.
But the lack of communication over a year and a half is the point. There’s just no question the company should do better and when they don’t (like here), they should offer redress.
Dr. Zola
I have MM as an R3. I took him up knowing about the big and played like he was normal. I don't care if they fix him or leave him the way he is. I don't use him enough to have that strong of an opinion.
But to say " don't fix a bug because it makes the community happy" just isn't how things work.
At some point, y'all just need to make up your mind.
BUT why not acknowledge it as a bug? Why not acknowledge that this was being looked into? All of this confusion could have been avoided if it was just formally stated by the mods/devs that this is being looked into as a potential change a la King Groot. Also I think re-parry as a mechanic was left in and no adjustments were made to patch it out because the community liked it so much, and now there's even a node that rewards that skill and only lets you parry the second hit. Maybe I'm getting things mixed up or imagining them, older forum members please correct me if I am.