Honestly this is such a baited poll. There are examples of two of the best buffs or most community accepted buffs (while leaving out ddhk, p99, guilly, first couple gamora buffs) compared to some pretty bad buffs while leaving out ones like storm.
There were good and not so good buffs in early champ buff times just as there are now.
The champions written in the poll options are the chronological examples of the buffs? It's not intended to bait anyone, and I listed out every single buff before you even got to the options. If you think it's baited, then that's on you.
I didn't choose Psychoman and Thor because they were the worst, they happen to be the first and last of the section of the program I'm referring to. Same with Magneto and Joe - first and last. It would have been inaccurate to write DDHK to Gamora as you suggest because that excludes 11 of the ~40 buffs.
I made sure to keep the poll options unbiased, but I wanted to clarify which program which option referred to so I put in the first and last options. In hindsight, I'd have put the dates of each segment so it would avoid your odd accusation of baiting.
“Balance program” it’s been referred to by kabam. “Buff program” referred to by the community.
But we haven’t had a “nerf” since early on, except the few changes the community didn’t like (like hood or guillotine). Hard to call it a balance program when typically it’s been used to better a lesser champion.
Honestly this is such a baited poll. There are examples of two of the best buffs or most community accepted buffs (while leaving out ddhk, p99, guilly, first couple gamora buffs) compared to some pretty bad buffs while leaving out ones like storm.
There were good and not so good buffs in early champ buff times just as there are now.
You didn't just out p99 in the same group as guilty. He is incredibly slept on.
Honestly this is such a baited poll. There are examples of two of the best buffs or most community accepted buffs (while leaving out ddhk, p99, guilly, first couple gamora buffs) compared to some pretty bad buffs while leaving out ones like storm.
There were good and not so good buffs in early champ buff times just as there are now.
You didn't just out p99 in the same group as guilty. He is incredibly slept on.
My r4 P2099 (maybe the only one????) is a monster. Using him in AQ and Torch mini and Thanos boss are down in between 25-40 hits. All while never having to bait a special because they never get to a bar of power.
Regardless of how you split it up, none of the last set had me jumping to level them up. However, 1 of the first set (Guillotine) kept me from leveling them up.
I prefer the first round of buffs - Magneto to Joe Fixit
However @Kabam Miike wants to spin it, Buffs have gone from one of the most looked forward to things in the game to "wake me up when there is a good one." Lackluster buffs were always with us, but it didn't used to deter me from looking forward to the next one. Now it's the norm. Recent buffs fail to make the champ more interesting, they fail to make the champ usable in the current state of the game, and I really doubt they matter much to new players who use two and three star champs for about 5 minutes. They feel pointless now.
Honestly this is such a baited poll. There are examples of two of the best buffs or most community accepted buffs (while leaving out ddhk, p99, guilly, first couple gamora buffs) compared to some pretty bad buffs while leaving out ones like storm.
There were good and not so good buffs in early champ buff times just as there are now.
You didn't just out p99 in the same group as guilty. He is incredibly slept on.
I agree h3 but go back and read the posts and vids of punisher 99 after buff, nothing but hate. Ironically I did a vid of p99 after buff saying it was very good buff and people were judging too quick, I received ton of hate for saying that. It was literally my most thumb down vid I ever did, lol
Also for the record guillotine also got a good buff contrary to your comment. I got my r3 and she's great. Problem is people had such over the top unreleastic expectations based on her winning community poll and thereby assuming she was going to be crazy op like Hercules. Over the top expectations doesn't make her buff bad, she's just not broken op.
Honestly this is such a baited poll. There are examples of two of the best buffs or most community accepted buffs (while leaving out ddhk, p99, guilly, first couple gamora buffs) compared to some pretty bad buffs while leaving out ones like storm.
There were good and not so good buffs in early champ buff times just as there are now.
You didn't just out p99 in the same group as guilty. He is incredibly slept on.
My r4 P2099 (maybe the only one????) is a monster. Using him in AQ and Torch mini and Thanos boss are down in between 25-40 hits. All while never having to bait a special because they never get to a bar of power.
He's also my sleeper in battlegrounds. I'm heavily considering taking him to r4 but will wait to see if I dupe Nimrod or get OS.
Honestly this is such a baited poll. There are examples of two of the best buffs or most community accepted buffs (while leaving out ddhk, p99, guilly, first couple gamora buffs) compared to some pretty bad buffs while leaving out ones like storm.
There were good and not so good buffs in early champ buff times just as there are now.
You didn't just out p99 in the same group as guilty. He is incredibly slept on.
I agree h3 but go back and read the posts and vids of punisher 99 after buff, nothing but hate. Ironically I did a vid of p99 after buff saying it was very good buff and people were judging too quick, I received ton of hate for saying that. It was literally my most thumb down vid I ever did, lol
Also for the record guillotine also got a good buff contrary to your comment. I got my r3 and she's great. Problem is people had such over the top unreleastic expectations based on her winning community poll and thereby assuming she was going to be crazy op like Hercules. Over the top expectations doesn't make her buff bad, she's just not broken op.
I never said anything bad about guilly. I just said p99 and guilly are not in the same tier. P99 is a A+ champ. Guilly is a B champ.
I prefer the first round of buffs - Magneto to Joe Fixit
The last 7 months buffs have been pointless. They said they was decreasing the amount of champions to increase the quality of each buff. However this definitely hasn’t been the case.
They might aswell stick that teams effort into sorting bugs. They clearly are to out of touch with the game to do any meaningful buffs.
I think buffs like Mags and Colossus are one time thing. They were too OP and still dominate lot of areas.
Every champ can't be the game breaker. Then there won't the value of obtaining the champ. That doesn't mean that champ have to be useless either like OG Spidey.
It's the Many number of average or above average champs gives the value to god tier or above god tier champs.
I would rather like Civil warrior,HTD, Gambit,YJ, Hood type of buffs. They are not too OP but are very useful and solid in right hands. Yes there were some buffs which could have been better like Psychoman or guillotine. But that doesn't mean that every champ who's getting reworked should hit hard like CGR and have utilities like warlock. This same goes for new champs.
I think buffs like Mags and Colossus are one time thing. They were too OP and still dominate lot of areas.
Every champ can't be the game breaker. Then there won't the value of obtaining the champ. That doesn't mean that champ have to be useless either like OG Spidey.
It's the Many number of average or above average champs gives the value to god tier or above god tier champs.
I would rather like Civil warrior,HTD, Gambit,YJ, Hood type of buffs. They are not too OP but are very useful and solid in right hands. Yes there were some buffs which could have been better like Psychoman or guillotine. But that doesn't mean that every champ who's getting reworked should hit hard like CGR and have utilities like warlock. This same goes for new champs.
I absolutely agree with you. The point of this poll isn't to say please bring back Magneto level buffs. It's to say please bring back the sorts of buffs you included in your post.
This isn't a commentary on how succesful the buffs were, but every single one of Civil warrior, HTD, Gambit, YJ, Hood tried something new. Civil Warrior got a new mechanic with furies and armours, plus nullify immunity which was pretty rare then. Howard got his pre fight, a pretty cool idea that brought something new to him. Gambit had a fair few things added, like the no damage back from his mediums, heavies and specials or his stun pausing. YJ has his meltdown mechanic and his passive heal reversal. Hood has a new damage mechanic and a playstyle that can now take advantage of his miss to get openings.
All of these buffs innovated and pushed the champions to a new level. If they were buffed in this current buff program, their sig would be put on base and given a new one.
Don't bring back Mags level buffs, bring back buffs where time is put into making them interesting, good for new players, but also good for players who for nearly a year and a half excitedly waited for buffs, and now sees them as a monthly opportunity to sigh.
What I liked about the older champion updates was that, as BitterSteel pointed out, each champ got something somewhat novel, or a meaningful bump to things they already did.
Magneto's terrifying anti-Metal powers. White Magneto becoming more of a team player. Daredevil's Stick's Apprentice/Murdock Boy modes. I don't quite remember Punisher 2099 Falcon's Lock-On giving some new benefits. (though I don't quite remember what he was like before) Gambit was already covered, as was YJ Terrax got less, but what he did get actually made him much better to use. Kingpin became a lot more potent. Again, he already had some interesting features, but they took that and made it much better than it was. Moleman... I don't have him and I don't remember his update Civil Warrior's Fury mechanic. (I personally find it awkward, but it's still something) Angela got some tweaks and a change to her sig, but it greatly increased her usefulness. The Hood (eventually) got some new mechanics on top of his old kit. Masacre got his Ignition much easier to attain and manage. Howard got... a lot. And is pretty amusing to play if you really like to mash for some reason. Crossbones's "Contempt" mechanic. Black Panther's dash back mechanic. (I don’t remember the name)
I don't want this post to go on too long, but the point is made.
While DPX did get a rework that made him feel "novel", it just didn't work out.
Storm was actually somewhat a "winner", being relatively simple to play while maintaining the powerful special damage she had.
I prefer the first round of buffs - Magneto to Joe Fixit
The quality of the buffs has definitely decreased. And it's heartbreaking.
That first batch has some of my favorite champs in it, which before their buffs I never used.
The second batch has champs I never use, and after their buffs will continue to never use.
The announcement for the buffs during the period of the first batch was as exciting to me and many I know as the announcement of new content. And it was better than new content coz we got to play with and enjoy those champs over and over again.
Kabam is capable of great success and producing some beautiful things thousands of people love and have fun with. But I don't know why they insist of going the opposite direction of the right path so often.
I prefer the first round of buffs - Magneto to Joe Fixit
I honestly feel like they aren't putting as much time and/or effort into these to ensure that the buffed champions don't become too OP and have to be tuned down at a later date, I'm looking gat the balance thing they brought in more so. Seems too coincidental that system was brought in and then buffs since that time frame have been lacking (relative to the prior 12/18 months of buffs 🤔)
I prefer the first round of buffs - Magneto to Joe Fixit
Some of the more recent buffs have just felt half hearted - Mordo, Yondu, Jane - they're better than before but they have that not quite finished properly feel to them
I assume that data has played a big part in all of the work done in the buff program and now that we have the champion attributes feature for all champs, that's the first chance we have had for quite a while to see any data related information on champ performance.
Given that Kabam have now completed the attributes assessment maybe there is another angle to balance equation. I wonder if they are grouping the champs and aiming to have percentages in each group.
I hope relics can give the bench riders what they need to have more use.
I think buffs like Mags and Colossus are one time thing. They were too OP and still dominate lot of areas.
Every champ can't be the game breaker. Then there won't the value of obtaining the champ. That doesn't mean that champ have to be useless either like OG Spidey.
It's the Many number of average or above average champs gives the value to god tier or above god tier champs.
I would rather like Civil warrior,HTD, Gambit,YJ, Hood type of buffs. They are not too OP but are very useful and solid in right hands. Yes there were some buffs which could have been better like Psychoman or guillotine. But that doesn't mean that every champ who's getting reworked should hit hard like CGR and have utilities like warlock. This same goes for new champs.
I absolutely agree with you. The point of this poll isn't to say please bring back Magneto level buffs. It's to say please bring back the sorts of buffs you included in your post.
This isn't a commentary on how succesful the buffs were, but every single one of Civil warrior, HTD, Gambit, YJ, Hood tried something new. Civil Warrior got a new mechanic with furies and armours, plus nullify immunity which was pretty rare then. Howard got his pre fight, a pretty cool idea that brought something new to him. Gambit had a fair few things added, like the no damage back from his mediums, heavies and specials or his stun pausing. YJ has his meltdown mechanic and his passive heal reversal. Hood has a new damage mechanic and a playstyle that can now take advantage of his miss to get openings.
All of these buffs innovated and pushed the champions to a new level. If they were buffed in this current buff program, their sig would be put on base and given a new one.
Don't bring back Mags level buffs, bring back buffs where time is put into making them interesting, good for new players, but also good for players who for nearly a year and a half excitedly waited for buffs, and now sees them as a monthly opportunity to sigh.
Absolutely agree with you here. I think I didn't portrayed well my thoughts but as expected you did put it well. Innovative buffs were really solid thing and exciting. But I see lot of players expect that every rework should be at mags level otherwise they don't count it as buff at all. But also kabam have to be more careful and creative with buffs
Hmmm. Curious as to why are all of the Buffs from before lumped together, though there were many changes to the ways in which we operated Buffs during that time as well. We changed cadences, the depths of Buffs, and much more. Would be interested to see how people feel with things split further up, and not just Before X and after X.
For example, I would lump Magneto, Magneto HoX and Daredevil into one, then Punisher 2099, Falcon, Gambit, YJ, Terrax, Kingpin, Moleman, Civil Warrior, Angela, Hood, Masacre, Howard the Duck, Crossbones, into another. Then a couple more.
Also, why does everybody call it a Buff Program? Did I call it that? There's no "program"... There never has been. It's just a thing we do. Was that my fault? I feel like it probably was something I said.
We don't want your forgiveness; we won't make excuses. We're not gonna blame you, even if you are an accessory, but we will not accept your natural order. We didn't come for absolution, we didn't ask to be redeemed, but isn't that the way it is? Every damn time. Your prayers are always answered, in the order they're received.
I prefer the first round of buffs - Magneto to Joe Fixit
Both had there ups and downs with some of the major ups being Mags and DPX force but then there are the downs which are Guillotine and Phyco-Man. However there are way more buffed champions that were ups from the first round that we can't say that the second round was good enough
I prefer the first round of buffs - Magneto to Joe Fixit
Deadpool X and Storm OG buffs are not that bad.
Deadpool is not a god tier but he was not meant to be such a powerful champion. his animations are really good and make him behave exactly the way we could imagine it. OG Deadpool should have those same animations (at least for SP2 and when he walks)
I prefer the first round of buffs - Magneto to Joe Fixit
I agree buff for champions are very much welcome specially for champions who neither have niche use, little damage or utility.. hence they need some help in their base attack or crit .. Dormammu has some good power control but damage is lacking.. with iHulk he is better but not everyone has iHulk.
Ok, regarding the three champions getting the rework.. will animations be ramped up or same animations
Juggernaut - unstoppable and unblockable when he starts dashing forward (similar to Kitty Pryde dash).. Juggernaut gains prowess each attack he parry..the parry boost his sp attack damage.. so dashing unstoppable and unblockable Juggs with sp1 or sp2.. major crit damage.
Antman - the shrinking and glancing are much improved.. irregardless of true-strike with 50% chance for unblockable special to miss. Each stackable fatigue cause opponents basic and crit by 220 (each fatigue) so 100 fatigues.. opponents attack is -22000 potency.
Rocket Racoon - shield (100% perfect block), spell (debuff reflect back), energy shield (energy attack reflects back) and emergency (lowers crit damage of attacker) only 3x per shield.
I prefer the first round of buffs - Magneto to Joe Fixit
I think that perhaps it would be better to divide it into the types of buff that champions have received: full reworks, values, tune ups (or equivalent).
I think what’s clear to me is that reworks have become more cautious over time and that it’s very unlikely that a buff is going to result in a god tier monster of the quality of Magneto which is what we all hope for in our heart of hearts.
My main concern with the buff program is the emphasis on alleged ease of champion acquisition being a factor in a champion’s buff, which is why DPX was allegedly a ‘simple’ buff and resulted in a very underwhelming, yet somehow confusing kit.
Values updates have for the most part been pointless since their inception with the exception of Angela.
I think that there needs to be a shift in the mindset in the buff team. All games have a level of power creep and this is obviously no different and for the most part it’s been kept under reasonable control with a few outliers and the first 2 years of game development being discounted. I would argue that it would be better to buff champions with the objective of making them awesome, rather than simply making them a bit better.
At the moment the objective seems to be bringing most to a 6/7 out of 10 but really the target should be 8-9/10, so that the average champion is an 8/10 which would make the likes of Ghost feel less OP. As a rule the better a champion the harder they are to kill so it would maintain a level of equilibrium in terms of attack/defence power levels.
I prefer the first round of buffs - Magneto to Joe Fixit
I'm just waiting for the buff/re-balance window where they try to improve Psycho Man again.... or maybe like Gamora they'll go at it 3 times before it's something
I'm just waiting for the buff/re-balance window where they try to improve Psycho Man again.... or maybe like Gamora they'll go at it 3 times before it's something
You don't like his furies being 2 seconds longer? 3 seconds would have made him broken /s
Comments
I didn't choose Psychoman and Thor because they were the worst, they happen to be the first and last of the section of the program I'm referring to. Same with Magneto and Joe - first and last. It would have been inaccurate to write DDHK to Gamora as you suggest because that excludes 11 of the ~40 buffs.
I made sure to keep the poll options unbiased, but I wanted to clarify which program which option referred to so I put in the first and last options. In hindsight, I'd have put the dates of each segment so it would avoid your odd accusation of baiting.
“Buff program” referred to by the community.
But we haven’t had a “nerf” since early on, except the few changes the community didn’t like (like hood or guillotine). Hard to call it a balance program when typically it’s been used to better a lesser champion.
The second option has no Spidey villains
#SinisterSixBuffsPlease!
Also for the record guillotine also got a good buff contrary to your comment. I got my r3 and she's great. Problem is people had such over the top unreleastic expectations based on her winning community poll and thereby assuming she was going to be crazy op like Hercules. Over the top expectations doesn't make her buff bad, she's just not broken op.
They might aswell stick that teams effort into sorting bugs. They clearly are to out of touch with the game to do any meaningful buffs.
I think buffs like Mags and Colossus are one time thing. They were too OP and still dominate lot of areas.
Every champ can't be the game breaker. Then there won't the value of obtaining the champ. That doesn't mean that champ have to be useless either like OG Spidey.
It's the Many number of average or above average champs gives the value to god tier or above god tier champs.
I would rather like Civil warrior,HTD, Gambit,YJ, Hood type of buffs. They are not too OP but are very useful and solid in right hands. Yes there were some buffs which could have been better like Psychoman or guillotine. But that doesn't mean that every champ who's getting reworked should hit hard like CGR and have utilities like warlock.
This same goes for new champs.
This isn't a commentary on how succesful the buffs were, but every single one of Civil warrior, HTD, Gambit, YJ, Hood tried something new. Civil Warrior got a new mechanic with furies and armours, plus nullify immunity which was pretty rare then. Howard got his pre fight, a pretty cool idea that brought something new to him. Gambit had a fair few things added, like the no damage back from his mediums, heavies and specials or his stun pausing. YJ has his meltdown mechanic and his passive heal reversal. Hood has a new damage mechanic and a playstyle that can now take advantage of his miss to get openings.
All of these buffs innovated and pushed the champions to a new level. If they were buffed in this current buff program, their sig would be put on base and given a new one.
Don't bring back Mags level buffs, bring back buffs where time is put into making them interesting, good for new players, but also good for players who for nearly a year and a half excitedly waited for buffs, and now sees them as a monthly opportunity to sigh.
Magneto's terrifying anti-Metal powers.
White Magneto becoming more of a team player.
Daredevil's Stick's Apprentice/Murdock Boy modes.
I don't quite remember Punisher 2099
Falcon's Lock-On giving some new benefits. (though I don't quite remember what he was like before)
Gambit was already covered, as was YJ
Terrax got less, but what he did get actually made him much better to use.
Kingpin became a lot more potent. Again, he already had some interesting features, but they took that and made it much better than it was.
Moleman... I don't have him and I don't remember his update
Civil Warrior's Fury mechanic. (I personally find it awkward, but it's still something)
Angela got some tweaks and a change to her sig, but it greatly increased her usefulness.
The Hood (eventually) got some new mechanics on top of his old kit.
Masacre got his Ignition much easier to attain and manage.
Howard got... a lot. And is pretty amusing to play if you really like to mash for some reason.
Crossbones's "Contempt" mechanic.
Black Panther's dash back mechanic. (I don’t remember the name)
I don't want this post to go on too long, but the point is made.
While DPX did get a rework that made him feel "novel", it just didn't work out.
Storm was actually somewhat a "winner", being relatively simple to play while maintaining the powerful special damage she had.
That first batch has some of my favorite champs in it, which before their buffs I never used.
The second batch has champs I never use, and after their buffs will continue to never use.
The announcement for the buffs during the period of the first batch was as exciting to me and many I know as the announcement of new content. And it was better than new content coz we got to play with and enjoy those champs over and over again.
Kabam is capable of great success and producing some beautiful things thousands of people love and have fun with. But I don't know why they insist of going the opposite direction of the right path so often.
I assume that data has played a big part in all of the work done in the buff program and now that we have the champion attributes feature for all champs, that's the first chance we have had for quite a while to see any data related information on champ performance.
Given that Kabam have now completed the attributes assessment maybe there is another angle to balance equation.
I wonder if they are grouping the champs and aiming to have percentages in each group.
I hope relics can give the bench riders what they need to have more use.
But also kabam have to be more careful and creative with buffs
Deadpool is not a god tier but he was not meant to be such a powerful champion. his animations are really good and make him behave exactly the way we could imagine it. OG Deadpool should have those same animations (at least for SP2 and when he walks)
Ok, regarding the three champions getting the rework.. will animations be ramped up or same animations
Juggernaut - unstoppable and unblockable when he starts dashing forward (similar to Kitty Pryde dash).. Juggernaut gains prowess each attack he parry..the parry boost his sp attack damage.. so dashing unstoppable and unblockable Juggs with sp1 or sp2.. major crit damage.
Antman - the shrinking and glancing are much improved.. irregardless of true-strike with 50% chance for unblockable special to miss.
Each stackable fatigue cause opponents basic and crit by 220 (each fatigue) so 100 fatigues.. opponents attack is -22000 potency.
Rocket Racoon - shield (100% perfect block), spell (debuff reflect back), energy shield (energy attack reflects back) and emergency (lowers crit damage of attacker) only 3x per shield.
Any clue what buff they will get?
I think what’s clear to me is that reworks have become more cautious over time and that it’s very unlikely that a buff is going to result in a god tier monster of the quality of Magneto which is what we all hope for in our heart of hearts.
My main concern with the buff program is the emphasis on alleged ease of champion acquisition being a factor in a champion’s buff, which is why DPX was allegedly a ‘simple’ buff and resulted in a very underwhelming, yet somehow confusing kit.
Values updates have for the most part been pointless since their inception with the exception of Angela.
I think that there needs to be a shift in the mindset in the buff team. All games have a level of power creep and this is obviously no different and for the most part it’s been kept under reasonable control with a few outliers and the first 2 years of game development being discounted. I would argue that it would be better to buff champions with the objective of making them awesome, rather than simply making them a bit better.
At the moment the objective seems to be bringing most to a 6/7 out of 10 but really the target should be 8-9/10, so that the average champion is an 8/10 which would make the likes of Ghost feel less OP. As a rule the better a champion the harder they are to kill so it would maintain a level of equilibrium in terms of attack/defence power levels.
Mole Man and Kingpin got value adjustments that took them close to the top of the Skill class.
Punisher-2099, Masacre, and Terrax all got value adjustments that moved them from underwhelming to 'performing nicely'.