I think Ice Phoenix is a rite of passage champ, similar to ROL wolvie. We should expect to see something similar on every uncollected map going forward. Not many of us could beat ROL wolvie with our first 4-40 4*... many had to wait for the right champ. You either got what I takes, or you dont...
aka: you either get lucky and get the right champ, or you don't. Literally no skill involved.
I believe the question is not if its hard, or if its possible, but the level of challenge.
The boosted coldsnap on the node means with an average 4*5/50 that cant shrug off debuffs or get regen that the node is not possible without significant constant boring revive usage, even with a significant health boost applied.
Personally I believe that's is a very frustrating experience and therefore the difficulty curve is wrong.
If it wasn't a bullsh*t fiesta then I suppose no-one would have raised it as an issue.
Simply an issue that lack of control from the player and associated indiscriminate death unrelated to skill level is frustrating and so not fun.
Just ensure uncontrollable degeneration is not boosted by a node, same way that regen only works off base hero health, I believe this should be a change across the game.
I believe the question is not if its hard, or if its possible, but the level of challenge.
The boosted coldsnap on the node means with an average 4*5/50 that cant shrug off debuffs or get regen that the node is not possible without significant constant boring revive usage, even with a significant health boost applied.
Personally I believe that's is a very frustrating experience and therefore the difficulty curve is wrong.
If it wasn't a bullsh*t fiesta then I suppose no-one would have raised it as an issue.
Simply an issue that lack of control from the player and associated indiscriminate death unrelated to skill level is frustrating and so not fun.
Just ensure uncontrollable degeneration is not boosted by a node, same way that regen only works off base hero health, I believe this should be a change across the game.
I couldn't agree more, I have quit uncollected mode. I can't justify the rewards with my frustration. It's just not fun, and again we come full circle to needing 1 or 2 champs to do something. This is a recurring theme here that the developers have trouble grasping. Unavoidable damage is another one, albeit in some cases it's probably worth it. I.E. the collector, because your progressing the main story. But to have this kind of scam on an event quest is ridiculous.
I believe the question is not if its hard, or if its possible, but the level of challenge.
The boosted coldsnap on the node means with an average 4*5/50 that cant shrug off debuffs or get regen that the node is not possible without significant constant boring revive usage, even with a significant health boost applied.
Personally I believe that's is a very frustrating experience and therefore the difficulty curve is wrong.
If it wasn't a bullsh*t fiesta then I suppose no-one would have raised it as an issue.
Simply an issue that lack of control from the player and associated indiscriminate death unrelated to skill level is frustrating and so not fun.
Just ensure uncontrollable degeneration is not boosted by a node, same way that regen only works off base hero health, I believe this should be a change across the game.
I couldn't agree more, I have quit uncollected mode. I can't justify the rewards with my frustration. It's just not fun, and again we come full circle to needing 1 or 2 champs to do something. This is a recurring theme here that the developers have trouble grasping. Unavoidable damage is another one, albeit in some cases it's probably worth it. I.E. the collector, because your progressing the main story. But to have this kind of scam on an event quest is ridiculous.
mephisto, rogue, av, cb, any 4/55, probably most 3/45s, any 5/50 w/o class disadvantage will survive her cold snap.
the rest of that fight is up to you and how skilled you are. there are a lot of people who have 100%ed 3.1 without any items or very few items, far and away from any kind of scam.
Who says you’re supposed to do it with 5/50s? Get stronger champs then do it when you’re worthy
Every piece of content should be doable with 5/50 4* with a high level of skill. That makes it skill-based. Having a r4 5* is based on RNG, luck and/or spending. Seems unfair to be expected to not do this with 5/50 4*
Although on the surface this appears to be true it just isn't. Is it? I mean haven't we fought bosses and timed out because we just could not avoid their utility and get enough damage in at the same time before the timer ends? Isn't that the major reason everyone clamors for the heavy hitters like Star Lord?
Solution: Look through the forums for good advice given to those who had a hard time beating Master content. They are told generally to work on the first Chapter for completion and then the second and get their roster up to speed and then they should have it. Why should Uncollected level be any different? Just because it is available now does not necessarily mean you currently have reasonable access to complete it.
Maybe this isn't MEANT to be reasonable without full roster of 4/55's or at least a 5/65 for that matter. Possible, yes, but not reasonable.
Master is possible with 3*'s but it could be considered unreasonable at times with that roster regardless of perfect skills.
I was able to 100% the map with only having to revive once on Ice Phoenix mostly due to watching Seatin do it first and having a r4 Starky. If you took off the heal block it would be a fine fight. Annoying but 5/50 healers would survive it and you could take her down. The heal block is the real kick in the taint.
@Kabam Miike@Kabam Wolf so i did as you guys instructed and was given 0 compensation when many others have been. I wrote back and was told the case was closed. ?????
I think Ice Phoenix is a rite of passage champ, similar to ROL wolvie. We should expect to see something similar on every uncollected map going forward. Not many of us could beat ROL wolvie with our first 4-40 4*... many had to wait for the right champ. You either got what I takes, or you dont...
aka: you either get lucky and get the right champ, or you don't. Literally no skill involved.
The entire history of the game refutes you. It was *initially* hard to do RoL without the right champs and very high skill levels and *still* it took a lot of units to finish. Over time, it became doable without spending with the "right" champs. Then it became doable with any set of decent champs with enough skill. Then it became doable with half the roster sheet with enough skill. Then it became relatively easy to do with a wide range of champs ranked up high enough. The game progresses, and the players progress, and the players inevitably get stronger relative to the content.
I believe the question is not if its hard, or if its possible, but the level of challenge.
The boosted coldsnap on the node means with an average 4*5/50 that cant shrug off debuffs or get regen that the node is not possible without significant constant boring revive usage, even with a significant health boost applied.
Personally I believe that's is a very frustrating experience and therefore the difficulty curve is wrong.
If it wasn't a bullsh*t fiesta then I suppose no-one would have raised it as an issue.
Simply an issue that lack of control from the player and associated indiscriminate death unrelated to skill level is frustrating and so not fun.
Just ensure uncontrollable degeneration is not boosted by a node, same way that regen only works off base hero health, I believe this should be a change across the game.
I couldn't agree more, I have quit uncollected mode. I can't justify the rewards with my frustration. It's just not fun, and again we come full circle to needing 1 or 2 champs to do something. This is a recurring theme here that the developers have trouble grasping. Unavoidable damage is another one, albeit in some cases it's probably worth it. I.E. the collector, because your progressing the main story. But to have this kind of scam on an event quest is ridiculous.
I'm not going to argue that "unavoidable" damage is generally a good idea, but with regard to quitting content you can't do: that's happened to me throughout the entirety of my playing the game. I had to temporarily quit Act 3 when it became too difficult to do. By the time I circled back it was easy. I couldn't do Act 4 in one go: I quit Act 4 several times because it was too difficult for me to do and then went back. I practiced on RoL for months before I felt I was ready to do it. When Coulson's came out it was way over my head. I couldn't even fully explore Ming Na's. I didn't get my first full completion of one of these special events until the third one, and I didn't fully explore the Iceman one. I had to push hard to fully explore Dave's and the Spider one. Its getting easier every time, but it started basically impossible. I'm still slowly pushing for full explore on Act 5.2 and haven't started seriously doing 5.3 yet. I tried it: I'm not quite ready to do that without spending money on it, and I don't want or need to do that.
What you find frustrating I consider part of the experience of playing a progression game. I don't measure my progress against other players. Well, I do, but that's not why I play. I measure my progress against what I used to be able to do. I'm actually amazed that I'm mostly burning through Modok's Lab's expert tier without much difficulty most of time: that' would have been impossible for me last year. What makes it fun to do today is that I know it would have been impossible in the past. That's why I play: to progress forward and see that I'm stronger today than yesterday, and to do today what I literally could not do before.
To me, that's the whole point of playing a progressional game. To see that there's something you just can't do, get better, and come back and beat it. This level of difficulty isn't going away. If you can't beat it this month, it, and its rewards, will be back next month, and the month after. It will be waiting for you until you can beat it.
I believe the question is not if its hard, or if its possible, but the level of challenge.
The boosted coldsnap on the node means with an average 4*5/50 that cant shrug off debuffs or get regen that the node is not possible without significant constant boring revive usage, even with a significant health boost applied.
Personally I believe that's is a very frustrating experience and therefore the difficulty curve is wrong.
If it wasn't a bullsh*t fiesta then I suppose no-one would have raised it as an issue.
Simply an issue that lack of control from the player and associated indiscriminate death unrelated to skill level is frustrating and so not fun.
Just ensure uncontrollable degeneration is not boosted by a node, same way that regen only works off base hero health, I believe this should be a change across the game.
I couldn't agree more, I have quit uncollected mode. I can't justify the rewards with my frustration. It's just not fun, and again we come full circle to needing 1 or 2 champs to do something. This is a recurring theme here that the developers have trouble grasping. Unavoidable damage is another one, albeit in some cases it's probably worth it. I.E. the collector, because your progressing the main story. But to have this kind of scam on an event quest is ridiculous.
I'm not going to argue that "unavoidable" damage is generally a good idea, but with regard to quitting content you can't do: that's happened to me throughout the entirety of my playing the game. I had to temporarily quit Act 3 when it became too difficult to do. By the time I circled back it was easy. I couldn't do Act 4 in one go: I quit Act 4 several times because it was too difficult for me to do and then went back. I practiced on RoL for months before I felt I was ready to do it. When Coulson's came out it was way over my head. I couldn't even fully explore Ming Na's. I didn't get my first full completion of one of these special events until the third one, and I didn't fully explore the Iceman one. I had to push hard to fully explore Dave's and the Spider one. Its getting easier every time, but it started basically impossible. I'm still slowly pushing for full explore on Act 5.2 and haven't started seriously doing 5.3 yet. I tried it: I'm not quite ready to do that without spending money on it, and I don't want or need to do that.
What you find frustrating I consider part of the experience of playing a progression game. I don't measure my progress against other players. Well, I do, but that's not why I play. I measure my progress against what I used to be able to do. I'm actually amazed that I'm mostly burning through Modok's Lab's expert tier without much difficulty most of time: that' would have been impossible for me last year. What makes it fun to do today is that I know it would have been impossible in the past. That's why I play: to progress forward and see that I'm stronger today than yesterday, and to do today what I literally could not do before.
To me, that's the whole point of playing a progressional game. To see that there's something you just can't do, get better, and come back and beat it. This level of difficulty isn't going away. If you can't beat it this month, it, and its rewards, will be back next month, and the month after. It will be waiting for you until you can beat it.
Yup. I think you make a compelling argument. I think I'm gonna stock up on some items from heroic and master and then come back with the appropriate champs, I think I was just frustrated at the fact that I was dying so quickly due to the cold snap. Thanks for putting it in to perspective.
I believe the question is not if its hard, or if its possible, but the level of challenge.
The boosted coldsnap on the node means with an average 4*5/50 that cant shrug off debuffs or get regen that the node is not possible without significant constant boring revive usage, even with a significant health boost applied.
Personally I believe that's is a very frustrating experience and therefore the difficulty curve is wrong.
If it wasn't a bullsh*t fiesta then I suppose no-one would have raised it as an issue.
Simply an issue that lack of control from the player and associated indiscriminate death unrelated to skill level is frustrating and so not fun.
Just ensure uncontrollable degeneration is not boosted by a node, same way that regen only works off base hero health, I believe this should be a change across the game.
I couldn't agree more, I have quit uncollected mode. I can't justify the rewards with my frustration. It's just not fun, and again we come full circle to needing 1 or 2 champs to do something. This is a recurring theme here that the developers have trouble grasping. Unavoidable damage is another one, albeit in some cases it's probably worth it. I.E. the collector, because your progressing the main story. But to have this kind of scam on an event quest is ridiculous.
mephisto, rogue, av, cb, any 4/55, probably most 3/45s, any 5/50 w/o class disadvantage will survive her cold snap.
the rest of that fight is up to you and how skilled you are. there are a lot of people who have 100%ed 3.1 without any items or very few items, far and away from any kind of scam.
I don't believe this is a true statement, I have 5* 4/55 sig level 99 majik and ice Phoenix took her out like she was standing still, have several 5/50 and same thing with them...it's ridiculous and not fun at all. I'm not one to pay to play (not saying I don't spend at times cause I do but not when it's not going to help the situation) not wasting money.
I believe the question is not if its hard, or if its possible, but the level of challenge.
The boosted coldsnap on the node means with an average 4*5/50 that cant shrug off debuffs or get regen that the node is not possible without significant constant boring revive usage, even with a significant health boost applied.
Personally I believe that's is a very frustrating experience and therefore the difficulty curve is wrong.
If it wasn't a bullsh*t fiesta then I suppose no-one would have raised it as an issue.
Simply an issue that lack of control from the player and associated indiscriminate death unrelated to skill level is frustrating and so not fun.
Just ensure uncontrollable degeneration is not boosted by a node, same way that regen only works off base hero health, I believe this should be a change across the game.
I couldn't agree more, I have quit uncollected mode. I can't justify the rewards with my frustration. It's just not fun, and again we come full circle to needing 1 or 2 champs to do something. This is a recurring theme here that the developers have trouble grasping. Unavoidable damage is another one, albeit in some cases it's probably worth it. I.E. the collector, because your progressing the main story. But to have this kind of scam on an event quest is ridiculous.
mephisto, rogue, av, cb, any 4/55, probably most 3/45s, any 5/50 w/o class disadvantage will survive her cold snap.
the rest of that fight is up to you and how skilled you are. there are a lot of people who have 100%ed 3.1 without any items or very few items, far and away from any kind of scam.
I don't believe this is a true statement, I have 5* 4/55 sig level 99 majik and ice Phoenix took her out like she was standing still, have several 5/50 and same thing with them...it's ridiculous and not fun at all. I'm not one to pay to play (not saying I don't spend at times cause I do but not when it's not going to help the situation) not wasting money.
I believe the question is not if its hard, or if its possible, but the level of challenge.
The boosted coldsnap on the node means with an average 4*5/50 that cant shrug off debuffs or get regen that the node is not possible without significant constant boring revive usage, even with a significant health boost applied.
Personally I believe that's is a very frustrating experience and therefore the difficulty curve is wrong.
If it wasn't a bullsh*t fiesta then I suppose no-one would have raised it as an issue.
Simply an issue that lack of control from the player and associated indiscriminate death unrelated to skill level is frustrating and so not fun.
Just ensure uncontrollable degeneration is not boosted by a node, same way that regen only works off base hero health, I believe this should be a change across the game.
I couldn't agree more, I have quit uncollected mode. I can't justify the rewards with my frustration. It's just not fun, and again we come full circle to needing 1 or 2 champs to do something. This is a recurring theme here that the developers have trouble grasping. Unavoidable damage is another one, albeit in some cases it's probably worth it. I.E. the collector, because your progressing the main story. But to have this kind of scam on an event quest is ridiculous.
mephisto, rogue, av, cb, any 4/55, probably most 3/45s, any 5/50 w/o class disadvantage will survive her cold snap.
the rest of that fight is up to you and how skilled you are. there are a lot of people who have 100%ed 3.1 without any items or very few items, far and away from any kind of scam.
I don't believe this is a true statement, I have 5* 4/55 sig level 99 majik and ice Phoenix took her out like she was standing still, have several 5/50 and same thing with them...it's ridiculous and not fun at all. I'm not one to pay to play (not saying I don't spend at times cause I do but not when it's not going to help the situation) not wasting money.
I have a 5* 4/55 sig 76 Magik and I soloed her. To be fair I used a boost since I knew about all the fuss, but still. You must've taken too much damage besides cold snap.
You can't compare it to ROL or the various acts where you improve and can do it. We are dealing with unavoidable damage and heal block. That takes away the skill factor. To be fair the super skilled will still take her down with low health remaining. So I guess that is the intended level of difficulty. The Collector requires revives too. You need revives to do the top content so save them or buy them I guess. But one thing this should teach is that you don't R5 4*'s. They can't handle the level of content being produced by Kabam.
You can't compare it to ROL or the various acts where you improve and can do it. We are dealing with unavoidable damage and heal block. That takes away the skill factor. To be fair the super skilled will still take her down with low health remaining. So I guess that is the intended level of difficulty. The Collector requires revives too. You need revives to do the top content so save them or buy them I guess. But one thing this should teach is that you don't R5 4*'s. They can't handle the level of content being produced by Kabam.
I will still 5/50 some 4*s but certainly not many at this point. But if I were newer in the game there are still many I would 5/50.
You can't compare it to ROL or the various acts where you improve and can do it. We are dealing with unavoidable damage and heal block. That takes away the skill factor. To be fair the super skilled will still take her down with low health remaining. So I guess that is the intended level of difficulty. The Collector requires revives too. You need revives to do the top content so save them or buy them I guess. But one thing this should teach is that you don't R5 4*'s. They can't handle the level of content being produced by Kabam.
This isn't the only content in the game. If you are saying 5/50s have no purpose in the game anymore, that's false. Ice Phoenix, however problematic it is, is just one enemy on an entire map.
My 5/50s still handle most of the content in the game, including so far most of the enemies I'm encountering in the uncollected maps. And different content tends to present different challenges. This past year we've had high difficulty content that rewarded defensive ability accuracy reduction, healing, power control, and high damage output. Ice Phoenix seems to require either the ability to shake off debuffs or the brute force ability to soak a lot of damage. If you decide to learn the lesson that you shouldn't bother with 5/50s anymore, that's up to you. But the players that didn't learn that lesson might have 5/50s like Rogue, or even Agent Venom which isn't considered a top tier champion, but would now be rewarding any player that doesn't just keep thinking that the only thing that beats content is brute force.
Also, Ice Phoenix is a different kind of enemy, but I wouldn't compare Ice Phoenix to RoL. I would compare player complaints about Ice Phoenix to the complaints previously made about RoL. Some are measured, some are not. Many people said that Scarlet Witch and Wolverine were ridiculous fights in RoL and should be toned down. At one point the *only* real counter to Wolverine was Guillotine or a mega-combo one-shot from Star Lord. There are more counters to Ice Phoenix today than there used to be for Wolverine back in the day. At the time many people said that was unfair. Today, those complaints seem quaint.
Comments
aka: you either get lucky and get the right champ, or you don't. Literally no skill involved.
The boosted coldsnap on the node means with an average 4*5/50 that cant shrug off debuffs or get regen that the node is not possible without significant constant boring revive usage, even with a significant health boost applied.
Personally I believe that's is a very frustrating experience and therefore the difficulty curve is wrong.
If it wasn't a bullsh*t fiesta then I suppose no-one would have raised it as an issue.
Simply an issue that lack of control from the player and associated indiscriminate death unrelated to skill level is frustrating and so not fun.
Just ensure uncontrollable degeneration is not boosted by a node, same way that regen only works off base hero health, I believe this should be a change across the game.
It makes me worry that the gameplay has nowhere else to go. A unit burn.
I couldn't agree more, I have quit uncollected mode. I can't justify the rewards with my frustration. It's just not fun, and again we come full circle to needing 1 or 2 champs to do something. This is a recurring theme here that the developers have trouble grasping. Unavoidable damage is another one, albeit in some cases it's probably worth it. I.E. the collector, because your progressing the main story. But to have this kind of scam on an event quest is ridiculous.
mephisto, rogue, av, cb, any 4/55, probably most 3/45s, any 5/50 w/o class disadvantage will survive her cold snap.
the rest of that fight is up to you and how skilled you are. there are a lot of people who have 100%ed 3.1 without any items or very few items, far and away from any kind of scam.
This Ice Phoenix is really really difficult which makes a lot of players not to play Uncollected mode.
Happy to see that you guys agreed it as a defect and trying to change it.
Appreciate the Quick Response
Although on the surface this appears to be true it just isn't. Is it? I mean haven't we fought bosses and timed out because we just could not avoid their utility and get enough damage in at the same time before the timer ends? Isn't that the major reason everyone clamors for the heavy hitters like Star Lord?
Solution: Look through the forums for good advice given to those who had a hard time beating Master content. They are told generally to work on the first Chapter for completion and then the second and get their roster up to speed and then they should have it. Why should Uncollected level be any different? Just because it is available now does not necessarily mean you currently have reasonable access to complete it.
Maybe this isn't MEANT to be reasonable without full roster of 4/55's or at least a 5/65 for that matter. Possible, yes, but not reasonable.
Master is possible with 3*'s but it could be considered unreasonable at times with that roster regardless of perfect skills.
The entire history of the game refutes you. It was *initially* hard to do RoL without the right champs and very high skill levels and *still* it took a lot of units to finish. Over time, it became doable without spending with the "right" champs. Then it became doable with any set of decent champs with enough skill. Then it became doable with half the roster sheet with enough skill. Then it became relatively easy to do with a wide range of champs ranked up high enough. The game progresses, and the players progress, and the players inevitably get stronger relative to the content.
I'm not going to argue that "unavoidable" damage is generally a good idea, but with regard to quitting content you can't do: that's happened to me throughout the entirety of my playing the game. I had to temporarily quit Act 3 when it became too difficult to do. By the time I circled back it was easy. I couldn't do Act 4 in one go: I quit Act 4 several times because it was too difficult for me to do and then went back. I practiced on RoL for months before I felt I was ready to do it. When Coulson's came out it was way over my head. I couldn't even fully explore Ming Na's. I didn't get my first full completion of one of these special events until the third one, and I didn't fully explore the Iceman one. I had to push hard to fully explore Dave's and the Spider one. Its getting easier every time, but it started basically impossible. I'm still slowly pushing for full explore on Act 5.2 and haven't started seriously doing 5.3 yet. I tried it: I'm not quite ready to do that without spending money on it, and I don't want or need to do that.
What you find frustrating I consider part of the experience of playing a progression game. I don't measure my progress against other players. Well, I do, but that's not why I play. I measure my progress against what I used to be able to do. I'm actually amazed that I'm mostly burning through Modok's Lab's expert tier without much difficulty most of time: that' would have been impossible for me last year. What makes it fun to do today is that I know it would have been impossible in the past. That's why I play: to progress forward and see that I'm stronger today than yesterday, and to do today what I literally could not do before.
To me, that's the whole point of playing a progressional game. To see that there's something you just can't do, get better, and come back and beat it. This level of difficulty isn't going away. If you can't beat it this month, it, and its rewards, will be back next month, and the month after. It will be waiting for you until you can beat it.
Yup. I think you make a compelling argument. I think I'm gonna stock up on some items from heroic and master and then come back with the appropriate champs, I think I was just frustrated at the fact that I was dying so quickly due to the cold snap. Thanks for putting it in to perspective.
I don't believe this is a true statement, I have 5* 4/55 sig level 99 majik and ice Phoenix took her out like she was standing still, have several 5/50 and same thing with them...it's ridiculous and not fun at all. I'm not one to pay to play (not saying I don't spend at times cause I do but not when it's not going to help the situation) not wasting money.
did you take any block or parry damage?
They did change it... its working as intended now and it's fine.
If you can't do it, don't do it.
The rewards aren't there for all players to get, only ones able to complete the difficulty
I have a 5* 4/55 sig 76 Magik and I soloed her. To be fair I used a boost since I knew about all the fuss, but still. You must've taken too much damage besides cold snap.
I will still 5/50 some 4*s but certainly not many at this point. But if I were newer in the game there are still many I would 5/50.
This isn't the only content in the game. If you are saying 5/50s have no purpose in the game anymore, that's false. Ice Phoenix, however problematic it is, is just one enemy on an entire map.
My 5/50s still handle most of the content in the game, including so far most of the enemies I'm encountering in the uncollected maps. And different content tends to present different challenges. This past year we've had high difficulty content that rewarded defensive ability accuracy reduction, healing, power control, and high damage output. Ice Phoenix seems to require either the ability to shake off debuffs or the brute force ability to soak a lot of damage. If you decide to learn the lesson that you shouldn't bother with 5/50s anymore, that's up to you. But the players that didn't learn that lesson might have 5/50s like Rogue, or even Agent Venom which isn't considered a top tier champion, but would now be rewarding any player that doesn't just keep thinking that the only thing that beats content is brute force.
Also, Ice Phoenix is a different kind of enemy, but I wouldn't compare Ice Phoenix to RoL. I would compare player complaints about Ice Phoenix to the complaints previously made about RoL. Some are measured, some are not. Many people said that Scarlet Witch and Wolverine were ridiculous fights in RoL and should be toned down. At one point the *only* real counter to Wolverine was Guillotine or a mega-combo one-shot from Star Lord. There are more counters to Ice Phoenix today than there used to be for Wolverine back in the day. At the time many people said that was unfair. Today, those complaints seem quaint.