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Removal of Revive Farming and the Apothecary Discussion
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While I suspect that there is nothing that will stop the nerf or the Apothecary quest launching, an acknowledgement of the general feelings on this thread would be appreciated.
There have also been many comments made on the general meta of the game, difficulty of content etc so I hope some of them get back to Kabam for consideration.
Farming Revs from Act 3 was NOT an indirect compensation for issues. That just isn't a thing.
Class Specific Potions
Revive fragments
Potion fragments
if champ dies in a quest and you use a revive that champ receives 10% attack reduction
Moving on from that, your argument is it must be done immediately, with farmed Revs, because it's "fun" content. Personally I don't find it much fun at all to pile through everything immediately, and then sit and wait on something else for 6 months. That's just me.
Call the Arena boring if you like, but it's the primary source of things like Gold and Units on a regular basis. Nor does it take a boring amount of focus to do a little at a time for Milestones.
It's called immediate gratification, and it usually accompanies a lack of patience. I'd go so far as to say that if end-game content is being released and a large number of Players are brute-forcing through it immediately, it hasn't met its goals.
Not everyone is meant to gather up whatever they need in a few days and pile through it. It's permanent for a reason. I'm sure there are some Players at the very top that can do it much faster than others, but they're literally the demographic in mind for content like the Challenges. Those that have done everything and are waiting on something more.
Only, people see the Rewards and want to jump to it as fast as possible. The ironic thing is the so-called "competitive" aspect is FOMO because people they will never catch up to have done it much sooner.
I'm not saying people should have a snail's motivation. Obviously people want to do it as soon as possible. What I'm saying is these things take planning and time for some. They're not meant for everyone to do all at once. They're meant for some to miss out for a time.
A major disconnect I think is understanding how things work at the top end of the game in, say, AW or BGs. Because those are very competitive modes, gaining a competitive edge is pretty important. Players in at least the top 100-200 alliances don’t wait 3-6 months to do content that will get them R4 or R5 materials because they need it to compete now.
What gets mistaken for impatience is actually immediacy that has been built into the game by the game team themselves. And that has effects further down the line—before you dismiss that as problem only for the top few thousand players, guess who winds up facing some of those players in modes like BGs on the way up? Paragon scrubs like me, who have to find ways to compete with rosters that have all the new toys ranked up.
Like it or not, that’s the system the team put into place. Player blaming and shaming misses the point that players trying to compete in those modes face a simple choice: complete content to keep up or fall behind.
To which I expect your reply may be something along the lines of “if they can’t complete the content without a basket of revives, they aren’t ready and need to get good.”
Dr. Zola
I have no idea why you keep mentioning "blaming" as if I'm talking about victim blaming or something. What I'm putting on Players is their own expectations. No one is responsible for that other than themselves.
I'm quite aware of the motivating factors. I'm not talking about Tetris here. That doesn't justify the idea that Players expect to have a constant supply from content intended to help newer Players.
It's called competitive for a reason. That competitive aspect of the game doesn't mean the game team is obligated to give Players an unlimited amount of Resources to keep up with the Jones'.
Anyways, everyone has their own motivation to play the game. Some are ok with grinding arenas, others prefer to horde resources such as revives to complete end game content.
Just because you may have a preference on how you approach the game, does not mean it applies to everyone else. I am a recent Paragon player who has not done much of the end game content as I find the input issues very frustrating. I know I will have to use units for revives if I don’t save up revives. 3.2.6 is a convenient way to do so but even then, I don’t bother as it still takes time to preview the map before you can auto play.
At the end of the day, regardless of where you are at in the game or what patience you have, Kabam has removed a way for players to prepare for difficult end game content at the worst possible time.
Input issues are the worst I have experienced especially in BG. This is the first month that I have barely even attempted the monthly quest. I quit once last year as the game provided me less and less enjoyment. I can see myself doing so again in the near future. It’s a shame as I enjoy saving units to splurge on July 1st, Cyber weekend and the gifting event.
What really matters is what are the unintended consequences of this change and are Kabam happy to still implement with these consequences in mind. Which is less palatable to Kabam, the actions of the player base now, or the actions of the player base after this change is implemented.
Will it lead for example to players stopping or reducing to play the game. Will it lead to reduced spending? Or will it lead to a lot of player outrage but then ultimately they end up playing the game as Kabam intended. I personally don’t think this is smoke from the player base. The game is many many years removed from when a first clear of Labyrinth of Legends suggested farming 6k-12k of units.
Kabam have redesigned the game to get through through act content super quickly. You can sleep walk through to act 5 these days. Kabam have created an expedited set of player expectations.
Kabam have also drastically moved from the best rewards being available from clearing content to having the best rewards available to just purchase. If your pay to win, you have all the awesome purchasable rewards straight away coupled with all the available content rewards straight away. Everyone should wait until they have grinded their life away in arena like the good ole days? They can but I don’t think they will.
I cannot see the player base behaviour going backwards, so if the change isn’t significantly altered or stopped people will give up on the content and a lot will give up on the game. If Kabam is ok with that, go ahead and do it.
I don't understand why you have such a hard time understanding that.
People can minimize the issue if they like, but it's clear it was enough of a number for Kabam to change it. So it wasn't that disadvantageous.
What's considered good enough?
Although, I'm sure it wouldn't look like 2 Revs per Energy Refill. Lol.
Debating whether they are actually unlimited or not isn't really productive, because the farms were not nerfed because they were mathematically infinite, but rather because they were so productive they were wildly far beyond any reasonable limit. The reality of the situation is 100-150 is not just too high, but so wildly high that the devs took radical action to curtail them. That implies debating over whether they were infinite or just really high is arguing on the wrong side of the scale.
The devs say the farms are too high, and the farms are essentially 100-150. The players say the Apothecary is too low, and the Apothecary basically sets the farming limit at around 30 (that would include the inventory limit of 15, plus the maximum you could accumulate in overflow between the Apothecary and other small sources of revives).
If 30 is too low and 100 is too high, what's the correct number? And more importantly, why? Keeping in mind that whatever that number is, whether it is 30 or 50 or 75, future Everest content will be designed with the intent that that number will not be enough on its own. Even if you could convince the devs to change the number, which would be extremely difficult, you aren't going to convince the devs to stop making Everest content. Future content will factor that number in, no matter what that number is. If future content is going to be designed as *assuming* everyone will be able to use that number of revives, how high do we want that number to be? Higher isn't automatically better in that environment. Higher just means the devs figure out what will kill MSD 101 times, and then dial back a tiny bit.
The more I think about the revives, the more I'm convinced the revives are not the problem. They are just another symptom of a completely different problem.
Dr. Zola