Guys I just can't believe you can contradict yourself in literally 3 rows....
"Summoners are meant to have access to units that are provided in specific, measured ways; Summoners are not meant to have access to revives in the current, overtuned capacity."
Sure. Units can be provided in specific, measured ways. But you can literally buy 8 Odin's, then just buy revives from them. And here we are again at the overtuned capacity of revives.
You are really trying to avoid the phrase "as long as you pay for it, you are good", but its not really going well.
So basically it's just another 2 revives per week in comparison to the original change announced 🤨
They literally said in the post that the individual changes seem small but combined they have a big impact, which is true. Did you just choose to skip over that bit or just choosing to only look at one change for some reason?
The biggest change is to the 22hr events being level 2, so we're no longer stockpiling one kind of revive but 2, so in essence doubling the amount of guaranteed revives we can stockpile (while also slightly increasing the cap, which is nice but not a huge deal). We're definitely worse off than before, but overall it's not a horrible compromise.
The solo event isn't guaranteed in the sense that apothecary is though, is it? You run 2 paths in Apothecary and get 1 revive per day guaranteed, solo events require much more time than that so can't be included as a guaranteed revive in the same way. Either way though you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo events if you do go for them ... which is the same quantity as before, just now you get a little more health (yay). If you're building up level 2s faster than before as a side effect of the solo event change then that means you're losing 1 level 1 revive at the same time
In the 22 hr solo events the revive shows up in milestone 3. For the arena event, that is 3750 points. 5* and 6* activity is going to be between 120 and 250 points per fight, or something like about 15 to 30 fights, or 5 to 10 arena rounds. That's reasonably achievable.
For the Level Up event that is 19360 points. Level up activity is in the range of 700 to 1k points per level for 5* and 6* champs, which is easily achievable with one level ups to max rank and some change.
For hero use it is 125000 points. The point range for typical activity with 5* and 6* champs is 2-4k points per fight, which implies something like 42 fights plus or minus. In terms of farming revives, this is also not an exceptional level of activity.
Event Quest requires 11700 points, which might be the trickiest one to sustain without very careful content management. It would be, say, six Uncollected EQ paths. If I was farming revives, this would be the one I would least be able to count on reliably. although one path to get this would be to do both paths of the expert proving grounds and both paths of the daily expert class quest, which would be 8400 of the 11700 points required. The rest could be gotten from normal monthly EQ activity.
Not once did I say it wasn't reasonably achievable. I was getting at that this Apothecary will take you what? About 5-7 mins to explore ... for the average endgame player?... I'll concede we don't and can't know the actual answer to this yet but at 11.5k team rating recommendation i think its a fair guess. The solo events take longer than that.
Also, let's not forget, the issues kabam had was the farming of acts 1-3 so their solution was to nerf them (in simple terms lol) and then give us that apothecary as a replacement farming method. Where has this solo event thing even come from? What's it got to do with the farming/apothecary issue. In my honest opinion I feel like they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes
The solo 22 hr events are these things:
They contain a level 1 revive (among other things) in milestone 3. That level 1 revive is being promoted to a level 2 revive in their announced changes.
I'm perfectly aware, but thanks for the clarification 👍Changing the revive from a level 1 to a level 2 isn't amazing like they're making it out to be, you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo event and as I keep saying the solo was not the issue.
I have no idea why you keep saying that. "Solo was not the issue." Nobody is saying it was. They are bufffing it to make it more useful within the context of revive farming. The question is why are you making this an issue?
Please increase the inventory caps. Only being able to hold 15 revives and 25 potions is far too low for a player as hopeless as myself. Also make aq 2 days or better yet 1.
Guys I just can't believe you can contradict yourself in literally 3 rows....
"Summoners are meant to have access to units that are provided in specific, measured ways; Summoners are not meant to have access to revives in the current, overtuned capacity."
Sure. Units can be provided in specific, measured ways. But you can literally buy 8 Odin's, then just buy revives from them. And here we are again at the overtuned capacity of revives.
You are really trying to avoid the phrase "as long as you pay for it, you are good", but its not really going well.
So are you proposing units shouldn’t be purchasable? Or revives shouldn’t be purchasable with units?
So basically it's just another 2 revives per week in comparison to the original change announced 🤨
They literally said in the post that the individual changes seem small but combined they have a big impact, which is true. Did you just choose to skip over that bit or just choosing to only look at one change for some reason?
The biggest change is to the 22hr events being level 2, so we're no longer stockpiling one kind of revive but 2, so in essence doubling the amount of guaranteed revives we can stockpile (while also slightly increasing the cap, which is nice but not a huge deal). We're definitely worse off than before, but overall it's not a horrible compromise.
The solo event isn't guaranteed in the sense that apothecary is though, is it? You run 2 paths in Apothecary and get 1 revive per day guaranteed, solo events require much more time than that so can't be included as a guaranteed revive in the same way. Either way though you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo events if you do go for them ... which is the same quantity as before, just now you get a little more health (yay). If you're building up level 2s faster than before as a side effect of the solo event change then that means you're losing 1 level 1 revive at the same time
In the 22 hr solo events the revive shows up in milestone 3. For the arena event, that is 3750 points. 5* and 6* activity is going to be between 120 and 250 points per fight, or something like about 15 to 30 fights, or 5 to 10 arena rounds. That's reasonably achievable.
For the Level Up event that is 19360 points. Level up activity is in the range of 700 to 1k points per level for 5* and 6* champs, which is easily achievable with one level ups to max rank and some change.
For hero use it is 125000 points. The point range for typical activity with 5* and 6* champs is 2-4k points per fight, which implies something like 42 fights plus or minus. In terms of farming revives, this is also not an exceptional level of activity.
Event Quest requires 11700 points, which might be the trickiest one to sustain without very careful content management. It would be, say, six Uncollected EQ paths. If I was farming revives, this would be the one I would least be able to count on reliably. although one path to get this would be to do both paths of the expert proving grounds and both paths of the daily expert class quest, which would be 8400 of the 11700 points required. The rest could be gotten from normal monthly EQ activity.
Not once did I say it wasn't reasonably achievable. I was getting at that this Apothecary will take you what? About 5-7 mins to explore ... for the average endgame player?... I'll concede we don't and can't know the actual answer to this yet but at 11.5k team rating recommendation i think its a fair guess. The solo events take longer than that.
And I just told you about how much longer.
I'm sorry, where was the times? Far as i can see you gave me the points required to obtain said revive and potential effort required to do so. Level Up I'll admit though would take less time subject to one having the iso and gold to do it
I mentioned the points required and a reasonable estimate for points per activity. I don't know how fast you are, but if you film yourself performing those activities and post it somewhere I can extrapolate an estimate for the approximate amount of time in minutes, if this is something you are having difficulty with on your own.
So basically it's just another 2 revives per week in comparison to the original change announced 🤨
They literally said in the post that the individual changes seem small but combined they have a big impact, which is true. Did you just choose to skip over that bit or just choosing to only look at one change for some reason?
The biggest change is to the 22hr events being level 2, so we're no longer stockpiling one kind of revive but 2, so in essence doubling the amount of guaranteed revives we can stockpile (while also slightly increasing the cap, which is nice but not a huge deal). We're definitely worse off than before, but overall it's not a horrible compromise.
The solo event isn't guaranteed in the sense that apothecary is though, is it? You run 2 paths in Apothecary and get 1 revive per day guaranteed, solo events require much more time than that so can't be included as a guaranteed revive in the same way. Either way though you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo events if you do go for them ... which is the same quantity as before, just now you get a little more health (yay). If you're building up level 2s faster than before as a side effect of the solo event change then that means you're losing 1 level 1 revive at the same time
In the 22 hr solo events the revive shows up in milestone 3. For the arena event, that is 3750 points. 5* and 6* activity is going to be between 120 and 250 points per fight, or something like about 15 to 30 fights, or 5 to 10 arena rounds. That's reasonably achievable.
For the Level Up event that is 19360 points. Level up activity is in the range of 700 to 1k points per level for 5* and 6* champs, which is easily achievable with one level ups to max rank and some change.
For hero use it is 125000 points. The point range for typical activity with 5* and 6* champs is 2-4k points per fight, which implies something like 42 fights plus or minus. In terms of farming revives, this is also not an exceptional level of activity.
Event Quest requires 11700 points, which might be the trickiest one to sustain without very careful content management. It would be, say, six Uncollected EQ paths. If I was farming revives, this would be the one I would least be able to count on reliably. although one path to get this would be to do both paths of the expert proving grounds and both paths of the daily expert class quest, which would be 8400 of the 11700 points required. The rest could be gotten from normal monthly EQ activity.
Not once did I say it wasn't reasonably achievable. I was getting at that this Apothecary will take you what? About 5-7 mins to explore ... for the average endgame player?... I'll concede we don't and can't know the actual answer to this yet but at 11.5k team rating recommendation i think its a fair guess. The solo events take longer than that.
Also, let's not forget, the issues kabam had was the farming of acts 1-3 so their solution was to nerf them (in simple terms lol) and then give us that apothecary as a replacement farming method. Where has this solo event thing even come from? What's it got to do with the farming/apothecary issue. In my honest opinion I feel like they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes
The solo events are another way to get revives. Each day you can earn a revives plus 25 units. This has been the OG method of getting revives.
I'm aware of that, but again, what's it got to do with the whole issue of acts 1-3 farming and the apothecary. Solo events wasn't an issue for them and nor was it for us, the issues was farming for them and the change in doing so for us
They are using them to add an additional way to farm revives. Because those revives are currently level 1 revives, they collide with the Apothecary. Both of them feed into the same inventory spot. The objectives are intended to be an additional opportunity to earn additional revives, with the level of effort being higher than the Apothecary but the revives being more valuable higher tier revives, and the combination of the Apothecary path to L1 revives and the Event path to L2 revives effectively doubles the maximum amount of revives a player could conceivably accumulate, but with a tiered level of effort required to obtain them.
Basically, the Apothecary is the easy way to get the small ones, and the Events are the moderately harder way to get the larger ones, and a player that wants to maximize the amount of resources they can expend on content will have to use both paths to do so. Players who need fewer resources will be able to use just the easy path, players who need more resources will need to do more to get more.
So basically it's just another 2 revives per week in comparison to the original change announced 🤨
They literally said in the post that the individual changes seem small but combined they have a big impact, which is true. Did you just choose to skip over that bit or just choosing to only look at one change for some reason?
The biggest change is to the 22hr events being level 2, so we're no longer stockpiling one kind of revive but 2, so in essence doubling the amount of guaranteed revives we can stockpile (while also slightly increasing the cap, which is nice but not a huge deal). We're definitely worse off than before, but overall it's not a horrible compromise.
The solo event isn't guaranteed in the sense that apothecary is though, is it? You run 2 paths in Apothecary and get 1 revive per day guaranteed, solo events require much more time than that so can't be included as a guaranteed revive in the same way. Either way though you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo events if you do go for them ... which is the same quantity as before, just now you get a little more health (yay). If you're building up level 2s faster than before as a side effect of the solo event change then that means you're losing 1 level 1 revive at the same time
In the 22 hr solo events the revive shows up in milestone 3. For the arena event, that is 3750 points. 5* and 6* activity is going to be between 120 and 250 points per fight, or something like about 15 to 30 fights, or 5 to 10 arena rounds. That's reasonably achievable.
For the Level Up event that is 19360 points. Level up activity is in the range of 700 to 1k points per level for 5* and 6* champs, which is easily achievable with one level ups to max rank and some change.
For hero use it is 125000 points. The point range for typical activity with 5* and 6* champs is 2-4k points per fight, which implies something like 42 fights plus or minus. In terms of farming revives, this is also not an exceptional level of activity.
Event Quest requires 11700 points, which might be the trickiest one to sustain without very careful content management. It would be, say, six Uncollected EQ paths. If I was farming revives, this would be the one I would least be able to count on reliably. although one path to get this would be to do both paths of the expert proving grounds and both paths of the daily expert class quest, which would be 8400 of the 11700 points required. The rest could be gotten from normal monthly EQ activity.
Not once did I say it wasn't reasonably achievable. I was getting at that this Apothecary will take you what? About 5-7 mins to explore ... for the average endgame player?... I'll concede we don't and can't know the actual answer to this yet but at 11.5k team rating recommendation i think its a fair guess. The solo events take longer than that.
Also, let's not forget, the issues kabam had was the farming of acts 1-3 so their solution was to nerf them (in simple terms lol) and then give us that apothecary as a replacement farming method. Where has this solo event thing even come from? What's it got to do with the farming/apothecary issue. In my honest opinion I feel like they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes
The solo events are another way to get revives. Each day you can earn a revives plus 25 units. This has been the OG method of getting revives.
I'm aware of that, but again, what's it got to do with the whole issue of acts 1-3 farming and the apothecary. Solo events wasn't an issue for them and nor was it for us, the issues was farming for them and the change in doing so for us
It has to do with the entire revive situation. It's called a compromise (regardless of if you want to call it a good one or not, that's what it is). You keep making this out to be some weird conspiracy because solo events didn't get mentioned before, but solo events have always been a way of farming revives that most players do in addition to the story content farming. So they're buffing something that was always done by players as a bit of compensation to their nerf of the other method of farming. What is so complicated about this?
So basically it's just another 2 revives per week in comparison to the original change announced 🤨
They literally said in the post that the individual changes seem small but combined they have a big impact, which is true. Did you just choose to skip over that bit or just choosing to only look at one change for some reason?
The biggest change is to the 22hr events being level 2, so we're no longer stockpiling one kind of revive but 2, so in essence doubling the amount of guaranteed revives we can stockpile (while also slightly increasing the cap, which is nice but not a huge deal). We're definitely worse off than before, but overall it's not a horrible compromise.
The solo event isn't guaranteed in the sense that apothecary is though, is it? You run 2 paths in Apothecary and get 1 revive per day guaranteed, solo events require much more time than that so can't be included as a guaranteed revive in the same way. Either way though you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo events if you do go for them ... which is the same quantity as before, just now you get a little more health (yay). If you're building up level 2s faster than before as a side effect of the solo event change then that means you're losing 1 level 1 revive at the same time
In the 22 hr solo events the revive shows up in milestone 3. For the arena event, that is 3750 points. 5* and 6* activity is going to be between 120 and 250 points per fight, or something like about 15 to 30 fights, or 5 to 10 arena rounds. That's reasonably achievable.
For the Level Up event that is 19360 points. Level up activity is in the range of 700 to 1k points per level for 5* and 6* champs, which is easily achievable with one level ups to max rank and some change.
For hero use it is 125000 points. The point range for typical activity with 5* and 6* champs is 2-4k points per fight, which implies something like 42 fights plus or minus. In terms of farming revives, this is also not an exceptional level of activity.
Event Quest requires 11700 points, which might be the trickiest one to sustain without very careful content management. It would be, say, six Uncollected EQ paths. If I was farming revives, this would be the one I would least be able to count on reliably. although one path to get this would be to do both paths of the expert proving grounds and both paths of the daily expert class quest, which would be 8400 of the 11700 points required. The rest could be gotten from normal monthly EQ activity.
Not once did I say it wasn't reasonably achievable. I was getting at that this Apothecary will take you what? About 5-7 mins to explore ... for the average endgame player?... I'll concede we don't and can't know the actual answer to this yet but at 11.5k team rating recommendation i think its a fair guess. The solo events take longer than that.
Also, let's not forget, the issues kabam had was the farming of acts 1-3 so their solution was to nerf them (in simple terms lol) and then give us that apothecary as a replacement farming method. Where has this solo event thing even come from? What's it got to do with the farming/apothecary issue. In my honest opinion I feel like they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes
The solo 22 hr events are these things:
They contain a level 1 revive (among other things) in milestone 3. That level 1 revive is being promoted to a level 2 revive in their announced changes.
I'm perfectly aware, but thanks for the clarification 👍Changing the revive from a level 1 to a level 2 isn't amazing like they're making it out to be, you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo event and as I keep saying the solo was not the issue.
I have no idea why you keep saying that. "Solo was not the issue." Nobody is saying it was. They are bufffing it to make it more useful within the context of revive farming. The question is why are you making this an issue?
I don't see it as more useful not unless the potion revise is significant as in % based ones. A revive is a revive
Guys I just can't believe you can contradict yourself in literally 3 rows....
"Summoners are meant to have access to units that are provided in specific, measured ways; Summoners are not meant to have access to revives in the current, overtuned capacity."
Sure. Units can be provided in specific, measured ways. But you can literally buy 8 Odin's, then just buy revives from them. And here we are again at the overtuned capacity of revives.
You are really trying to avoid the phrase "as long as you pay for it, you are good", but its not really going well.
Are you saying people should have access to 8 Odins worth of Revs? I understand that wasn't the main point of your comment, but the idea that Players should have for free what others pay for is just as questionable. People spend. They buy Units to save themselves the time it takes to grind and save. Some people have the money to do this, and some don't. That's a reality in this game as much as it is a reality in life. I can't go to a car dealership and ask for a faster way to get the car I want than working, just because some have money at their disposal.
I read the update on the consumable acquisition and while I agree with parts of it, I think it is extremely lacking.
Speaking to the first point of the post and adjusting the number of revives that can be kept in inventory, I actually agree with and can get behind this increase, but only if the potion issue is also resolved (more on that later)
Timeline - This is just unacceptable in my opinion. Changing anything (and preparing to release the next Everest content) without having the full timeline coordinated for fixing the issue is irresponsible.
Potion Ecosystem - This is really the bulk of my heartburn and why I think this should all be delayed. The reason most people "spam" revives for content is because there is no good way to obtain enough potions to do the content that is put out. The post states that content is designed with certain item use and revive count in mind, but if the content requires 70 revives, but you can't heal your champion more than 20%, maybe that same content takes 90-100 revives without healing. It really doesn't make sense to change anything about availability of revives until you're ready to also address the potions. The easiest solution here is change them from fixed value potions to percentage based. Also, if you're anticipating content to need X number of revives, and we should be able to obtain enough potions to heal to full X number of times.
Transparent Design Philosophy - the main thing I took away from this section was: "We set challenge goals: how hard should it be? We set progression goals: how powerful should Summoners have to be to tackle it and how powerful should they be once they complete it? We set time goals: how much active play time should it require and how many days/weeks/months should it take for Summoners at various progression tiers to complete it? And we set consumable goals: how many units, potions, revives, boosts, etc., do we expect players to use." Most of these issues can be resolved and have no bearing on consumables. If you think that summoners should have a certain progression level to do certain content, but put it behind a progression title. If you think it should take a certain amount of time, release it slower. And if you truly have consumable goals, then put an item limit. The truth is, you don't have any issue with any of those things as long as a summoner is PAYING for the consumables they use. I would also LOVE to see what the intended consumable plan was for certain pieces of content when it was released vs what what actually used at the time, and also what you can do it for now. Obviously when Labyrinth of Legends was first released, r5 5* were not even released yet and most of our large damage dealing champs weren't around. I don't remember anyone doing LOL cheaply until Blade, Ghost and Aegon came around. Several people did LOL with 4* Starlord and this was CELEBRATED by kabam as a great achievement. There was no comment at that time stating that people were using more revives than was intended, or completing it with smaller accounts that hadn't achieved certain titles. All of this comes down to GREED. You're beating around the bush, but it's obvious to all of us that you don't care if we use resources to complete content, you care if we do it without buying our revives with units.
How is grinding for units different than grinding for revives - Let's be honest, there is really only one mode in this game that is net positive for grinding units and that is arena. I'll ignore the fact for now that kabam does literally nothing to deal with the arena bots that players run to get those precious units. If kabam truly wants us to use units as the catch all solution, than allow us to get units in EVERY game mode. I should be able to get units in incursions, arena, battlegrounds, EQ, side events and story content. They all take my time and can theoretically all be use to grind units if they would change it a little. Also, the difference between grinding units and grinding revives currently is just time/value. The reason people grind revives currently is because it is just way more time efficient. If it was the other way around, people would be grinding units instead. Also, lets just be clear that I would not classify arena as "engaged play". I've seen people win arena fights without even looking at their screen. The difficulty of arena is only slightly more difficult that hitting the autoplay button.
Guys I just can't believe you can contradict yourself in literally 3 rows....
"Summoners are meant to have access to units that are provided in specific, measured ways; Summoners are not meant to have access to revives in the current, overtuned capacity."
Sure. Units can be provided in specific, measured ways. But you can literally buy 8 Odin's, then just buy revives from them. And here we are again at the overtuned capacity of revives.
You are really trying to avoid the phrase "as long as you pay for it, you are good", but its not really going well.
People seem to think there are two kinds of players: free to play, and the ultra rich that can spend unlimited amounts of money. People who spend are not all unlimited spenders.
Yes, there is a way to spend to buy revives, just as there is a way to spend to buy crystals or offers or almost everything else in the game. It isn't "fine" if players spend hundreds of dollars on unlimited revives to blast through content. But for most spending players, that cash has some sort of value. They are making a value choice when they decide to spend that cash. Just like non-spenders make when they decide to spend nothing.
The fact that someone can buy eight Odins doesn't mean all spenders do. They are forced to choose between spending to compete the content or not, and how much. That choice is part of how the game is monetized and supported.
Players also have the choice on whether to farm revives or not. But the choice to farm 3.2.6 was a trivial one compared to the choice on whether to spend hundreds of dollars or not. One of those choices benefits the game and contains a lot of friction to it for the vast majority of spenders. The other one is a trivial decision that has been ludicrously portrayed as being a significant burden, but which I consider to be comparable to the amount of effort required to keep my calendar progressing forward without losing rewards.
That's the difference. And if you think there's no difference, buy the eight Odins and your problem is solved.
So basically it's just another 2 revives per week in comparison to the original change announced 🤨
They literally said in the post that the individual changes seem small but combined they have a big impact, which is true. Did you just choose to skip over that bit or just choosing to only look at one change for some reason?
The biggest change is to the 22hr events being level 2, so we're no longer stockpiling one kind of revive but 2, so in essence doubling the amount of guaranteed revives we can stockpile (while also slightly increasing the cap, which is nice but not a huge deal). We're definitely worse off than before, but overall it's not a horrible compromise.
The solo event isn't guaranteed in the sense that apothecary is though, is it? You run 2 paths in Apothecary and get 1 revive per day guaranteed, solo events require much more time than that so can't be included as a guaranteed revive in the same way. Either way though you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo events if you do go for them ... which is the same quantity as before, just now you get a little more health (yay). If you're building up level 2s faster than before as a side effect of the solo event change then that means you're losing 1 level 1 revive at the same time
In the 22 hr solo events the revive shows up in milestone 3. For the arena event, that is 3750 points. 5* and 6* activity is going to be between 120 and 250 points per fight, or something like about 15 to 30 fights, or 5 to 10 arena rounds. That's reasonably achievable.
For the Level Up event that is 19360 points. Level up activity is in the range of 700 to 1k points per level for 5* and 6* champs, which is easily achievable with one level ups to max rank and some change.
For hero use it is 125000 points. The point range for typical activity with 5* and 6* champs is 2-4k points per fight, which implies something like 42 fights plus or minus. In terms of farming revives, this is also not an exceptional level of activity.
Event Quest requires 11700 points, which might be the trickiest one to sustain without very careful content management. It would be, say, six Uncollected EQ paths. If I was farming revives, this would be the one I would least be able to count on reliably. although one path to get this would be to do both paths of the expert proving grounds and both paths of the daily expert class quest, which would be 8400 of the 11700 points required. The rest could be gotten from normal monthly EQ activity.
Not once did I say it wasn't reasonably achievable. I was getting at that this Apothecary will take you what? About 5-7 mins to explore ... for the average endgame player?... I'll concede we don't and can't know the actual answer to this yet but at 11.5k team rating recommendation i think its a fair guess. The solo events take longer than that.
Also, let's not forget, the issues kabam had was the farming of acts 1-3 so their solution was to nerf them (in simple terms lol) and then give us that apothecary as a replacement farming method. Where has this solo event thing even come from? What's it got to do with the farming/apothecary issue. In my honest opinion I feel like they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes
The solo 22 hr events are these things:
They contain a level 1 revive (among other things) in milestone 3. That level 1 revive is being promoted to a level 2 revive in their announced changes.
I'm perfectly aware, but thanks for the clarification 👍Changing the revive from a level 1 to a level 2 isn't amazing like they're making it out to be, you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo event and as I keep saying the solo was not the issue.
I have no idea why you keep saying that. "Solo was not the issue." Nobody is saying it was. They are bufffing it to make it more useful within the context of revive farming. The question is why are you making this an issue?
I don't see it as more useful not unless the potion revise is significant as in % based ones. A revive is a revive
If you see L2 revives as identical in value to L1 revives and you see allowing players to fill two inventory slots instead of one as being not useful, then the announced changes will be meaningless to you. But they are also not targeted at players like yourself. The announced changes are targeted at players with more reasonable to accommodate value judgments.
So basically it's just another 2 revives per week in comparison to the original change announced 🤨
They literally said in the post that the individual changes seem small but combined they have a big impact, which is true. Did you just choose to skip over that bit or just choosing to only look at one change for some reason?
The biggest change is to the 22hr events being level 2, so we're no longer stockpiling one kind of revive but 2, so in essence doubling the amount of guaranteed revives we can stockpile (while also slightly increasing the cap, which is nice but not a huge deal). We're definitely worse off than before, but overall it's not a horrible compromise.
The solo event isn't guaranteed in the sense that apothecary is though, is it? You run 2 paths in Apothecary and get 1 revive per day guaranteed, solo events require much more time than that so can't be included as a guaranteed revive in the same way. Either way though you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo events if you do go for them ... which is the same quantity as before, just now you get a little more health (yay). If you're building up level 2s faster than before as a side effect of the solo event change then that means you're losing 1 level 1 revive at the same time
In the 22 hr solo events the revive shows up in milestone 3. For the arena event, that is 3750 points. 5* and 6* activity is going to be between 120 and 250 points per fight, or something like about 15 to 30 fights, or 5 to 10 arena rounds. That's reasonably achievable.
For the Level Up event that is 19360 points. Level up activity is in the range of 700 to 1k points per level for 5* and 6* champs, which is easily achievable with one level ups to max rank and some change.
For hero use it is 125000 points. The point range for typical activity with 5* and 6* champs is 2-4k points per fight, which implies something like 42 fights plus or minus. In terms of farming revives, this is also not an exceptional level of activity.
Event Quest requires 11700 points, which might be the trickiest one to sustain without very careful content management. It would be, say, six Uncollected EQ paths. If I was farming revives, this would be the one I would least be able to count on reliably. although one path to get this would be to do both paths of the expert proving grounds and both paths of the daily expert class quest, which would be 8400 of the 11700 points required. The rest could be gotten from normal monthly EQ activity.
Not once did I say it wasn't reasonably achievable. I was getting at that this Apothecary will take you what? About 5-7 mins to explore ... for the average endgame player?... I'll concede we don't and can't know the actual answer to this yet but at 11.5k team rating recommendation i think its a fair guess. The solo events take longer than that.
Also, let's not forget, the issues kabam had was the farming of acts 1-3 so their solution was to nerf them (in simple terms lol) and then give us that apothecary as a replacement farming method. Where has this solo event thing even come from? What's it got to do with the farming/apothecary issue. In my honest opinion I feel like they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes
The solo 22 hr events are these things:
They contain a level 1 revive (among other things) in milestone 3. That level 1 revive is being promoted to a level 2 revive in their announced changes.
I'm perfectly aware, but thanks for the clarification 👍Changing the revive from a level 1 to a level 2 isn't amazing like they're making it out to be, you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo event and as I keep saying the solo was not the issue.
I have no idea why you keep saying that. "Solo was not the issue." Nobody is saying it was. They are bufffing it to make it more useful within the context of revive farming. The question is why are you making this an issue?
I don't see it as more useful not unless the potion revise is significant as in % based ones. A revive is a revive
If you see L2 revives as identical in value to L1 revives and you see allowing players to fill two inventory slots instead of one as being not useful, then the announced changes will be meaningless to you. But they are also not targeted at players like yourself. The announced changes are targeted at players with more reasonable to accommodate value judgments.
20% 40% ... 1 combo in EoP is going to eat it regardless. That is after all the intended content (endgame) at which this whole thing originated around and continues to gravitate around. In EQ or story yes a 40% is more valuable
Guys I just can't believe you can contradict yourself in literally 3 rows....
"Summoners are meant to have access to units that are provided in specific, measured ways; Summoners are not meant to have access to revives in the current, overtuned capacity."
Sure. Units can be provided in specific, measured ways. But you can literally buy 8 Odin's, then just buy revives from them. And here we are again at the overtuned capacity of revives.
You are really trying to avoid the phrase "as long as you pay for it, you are good", but its not really going well.
People seem to think there are two kinds of players: free to play, and the ultra rich that can spend unlimited amounts of money. People who spend are not all unlimited spenders.
Yes, there is a way to spend to buy revives, just as there is a way to spend to buy crystals or offers or almost everything else in the game. It isn't "fine" if players spend hundreds of dollars on unlimited revives to blast through content. But for most spending players, that cash has some sort of value. They are making a value choice when they decide to spend that cash. Just like non-spenders make when they decide to spend nothing.
The fact that someone can buy eight Odins doesn't mean all spenders do. They are forced to choose between spending to compete the content or not, and how much. That choice is part of how the game is monetized and supported.
Players also have the choice on whether to farm revives or not. But the choice to farm 3.2.6 was a trivial one compared to the choice on whether to spend hundreds of dollars or not. One of those choices benefits the game and contains a lot of friction to it for the vast majority of spenders. The other one is a trivial decision that has been ludicrously portrayed as being a significant burden, but which I consider to be comparable to the amount of effort required to keep my calendar progressing forward without losing rewards.
That's the difference. And if you think there's no difference, buy the eight Odins and your problem is solved.
You're missing one piece of the puzzle here, and that's lots of people like myself who spend on the game, not whaling out but a decent enough amount on things like July 4th, weekly/monthly deals, monthly units, sigil etc who are comfortable putting out real money for those things given that we don't have to spend to do content and just play and enjoy the game. Obviously it's they're just individual instances but I've seen people leave the game I never thought actually would, and I won't be spending anymore if I'm going to have to start adding to that just to play the content as it comes out now. Maybe that group will be a drop in the bucket and won't matter in the end, I guess we'll see.
So basically it's just another 2 revives per week in comparison to the original change announced 🤨
They literally said in the post that the individual changes seem small but combined they have a big impact, which is true. Did you just choose to skip over that bit or just choosing to only look at one change for some reason?
The biggest change is to the 22hr events being level 2, so we're no longer stockpiling one kind of revive but 2, so in essence doubling the amount of guaranteed revives we can stockpile (while also slightly increasing the cap, which is nice but not a huge deal). We're definitely worse off than before, but overall it's not a horrible compromise.
The solo event isn't guaranteed in the sense that apothecary is though, is it? You run 2 paths in Apothecary and get 1 revive per day guaranteed, solo events require much more time than that so can't be included as a guaranteed revive in the same way. Either way though you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo events if you do go for them ... which is the same quantity as before, just now you get a little more health (yay). If you're building up level 2s faster than before as a side effect of the solo event change then that means you're losing 1 level 1 revive at the same time
In the 22 hr solo events the revive shows up in milestone 3. For the arena event, that is 3750 points. 5* and 6* activity is going to be between 120 and 250 points per fight, or something like about 15 to 30 fights, or 5 to 10 arena rounds. That's reasonably achievable.
For the Level Up event that is 19360 points. Level up activity is in the range of 700 to 1k points per level for 5* and 6* champs, which is easily achievable with one level ups to max rank and some change.
For hero use it is 125000 points. The point range for typical activity with 5* and 6* champs is 2-4k points per fight, which implies something like 42 fights plus or minus. In terms of farming revives, this is also not an exceptional level of activity.
Event Quest requires 11700 points, which might be the trickiest one to sustain without very careful content management. It would be, say, six Uncollected EQ paths. If I was farming revives, this would be the one I would least be able to count on reliably. although one path to get this would be to do both paths of the expert proving grounds and both paths of the daily expert class quest, which would be 8400 of the 11700 points required. The rest could be gotten from normal monthly EQ activity.
Not once did I say it wasn't reasonably achievable. I was getting at that this Apothecary will take you what? About 5-7 mins to explore ... for the average endgame player?... I'll concede we don't and can't know the actual answer to this yet but at 11.5k team rating recommendation i think its a fair guess. The solo events take longer than that.
Also, let's not forget, the issues kabam had was the farming of acts 1-3 so their solution was to nerf them (in simple terms lol) and then give us that apothecary as a replacement farming method. Where has this solo event thing even come from? What's it got to do with the farming/apothecary issue. In my honest opinion I feel like they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes
The solo 22 hr events are these things:
They contain a level 1 revive (among other things) in milestone 3. That level 1 revive is being promoted to a level 2 revive in their announced changes.
I'm perfectly aware, but thanks for the clarification 👍Changing the revive from a level 1 to a level 2 isn't amazing like they're making it out to be, you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo event and as I keep saying the solo was not the issue.
I have no idea why you keep saying that. "Solo was not the issue." Nobody is saying it was. They are bufffing it to make it more useful within the context of revive farming. The question is why are you making this an issue?
I don't see it as more useful not unless the potion revise is significant as in % based ones. A revive is a revive
If you see L2 revives as identical in value to L1 revives and you see allowing players to fill two inventory slots instead of one as being not useful, then the announced changes will be meaningless to you. But they are also not targeted at players like yourself. The announced changes are targeted at players with more reasonable to accommodate value judgments.
20% 40% ... 1 combo in EoP is going to eat it regardless. That is after all the intended content (endgame) at which this whole thing originated around and continues to gravitate around. In EQ or story yes a 40% is more valuable
1 combo in EoP is going to eat an entire health bar in most situations so that's a pointless argument. 20% of health is substantial when it comes to taking hits into parried blocks, or is very nice to have when you plan on taking a champ higher in health since 20% equates to a lot of health pots on a boosted r3+ champ.
And you continue to skip over the main point in them doing this.. taking up 2 inventory slots instead of one, letting you double the amount you can hold at any one time. Even is L1 and L2 revives had the exact same value like you claim, does being able to hold 20 vs 40 revives without overflowing hold the same value to you?
Why asking for time now. Why not asked content creator or raised in forum b4 implementing same. Request all not to buy anything. They bring all change at once. Otherwise revert back your changes. Let it be what is there. Check your post dislike count. You ll get ur answer.
This type of content is designed to be difficult; it is designed to be aspirational. It should take skill, appropriate roster choices and preparation. It should be a north star for Summoners to work towards and fight to accomplish, it is not meant to be inevitable.
EVERY piece of content is technically inevitable as long as revives are available for a simple currency such as units. It's just a matter of how much people grind arena and/or spend money to stockpile those resources. Don't really see how this argument is valid.
Guys I just can't believe you can contradict yourself in literally 3 rows....
"Summoners are meant to have access to units that are provided in specific, measured ways; Summoners are not meant to have access to revives in the current, overtuned capacity."
Sure. Units can be provided in specific, measured ways. But you can literally buy 8 Odin's, then just buy revives from them. And here we are again at the overtuned capacity of revives.
You are really trying to avoid the phrase "as long as you pay for it, you are good", but its not really going well.
Are you saying people should have access to 8 Odins worth of Revs? I understand that wasn't the main point of your comment, but the idea that Players should have for free what others pay for is just as questionable. People spend. They buy Units to save themselves the time it takes to grind and save. Some people have the money to do this, and some don't. That's a reality in this game as much as it is a reality in life. I can't go to a car dealership and ask for a faster way to get the car I want than working, just because some have money at their disposal.
Guys I just can't believe you can contradict yourself in literally 3 rows....
"Summoners are meant to have access to units that are provided in specific, measured ways; Summoners are not meant to have access to revives in the current, overtuned capacity."
Sure. Units can be provided in specific, measured ways. But you can literally buy 8 Odin's, then just buy revives from them. And here we are again at the overtuned capacity of revives.
You are really trying to avoid the phrase "as long as you pay for it, you are good", but its not really going well.
People seem to think there are two kinds of players: free to play, and the ultra rich that can spend unlimited amounts of money. People who spend are not all unlimited spenders.
Yes, there is a way to spend to buy revives, just as there is a way to spend to buy crystals or offers or almost everything else in the game. It isn't "fine" if players spend hundreds of dollars on unlimited revives to blast through content. But for most spending players, that cash has some sort of value. They are making a value choice when they decide to spend that cash. Just like non-spenders make when they decide to spend nothing.
The fact that someone can buy eight Odins doesn't mean all spenders do. They are forced to choose between spending to compete the content or not, and how much. That choice is part of how the game is monetized and supported.
Players also have the choice on whether to farm revives or not. But the choice to farm 3.2.6 was a trivial one compared to the choice on whether to spend hundreds of dollars or not. One of those choices benefits the game and contains a lot of friction to it for the vast majority of spenders. The other one is a trivial decision that has been ludicrously portrayed as being a significant burden, but which I consider to be comparable to the amount of effort required to keep my calendar progressing forward without losing rewards.
That's the difference. And if you think there's no difference, buy the eight Odins and your problem is solved.
The theme of the OG post in short is "with enough revives, you can brute force every content, so there is no point is harder content". But players always had access to unlimited revives - via units, whether that unit was earned or bought. Player could always brute force content with revives. Let me remind you: abyss came out well before the unintented revive farm. People brute forced it on livestreams, with odin-bought revives. But I don't remember if there was any scandal because of that. Revive prices weren't increased, consumable-usage wasn't limited, nothing. But as soon as players who doesn't have an abundance of money in their pocket have access to these revives, there comes a change. And not like these revives just happen to appear in your inventory. Basically you are exchanging your refills to revives, with the added extra of time spent in game, it being as long as it is.
So yes, I can't justify these reasonings for this change like "you never meant to have these amounts of revives" because it's just not true. Be the man and admit that "you never meant to have these amounts of revives, unless you pay for them" And yes, I understand kabam is a company, and they need money, that's totally OK, even I agree with that. But then don't be afraid to admit it, not try to hide behind fake truth.
So basically it's just another 2 revives per week in comparison to the original change announced 🤨
They literally said in the post that the individual changes seem small but combined they have a big impact, which is true. Did you just choose to skip over that bit or just choosing to only look at one change for some reason?
The biggest change is to the 22hr events being level 2, so we're no longer stockpiling one kind of revive but 2, so in essence doubling the amount of guaranteed revives we can stockpile (while also slightly increasing the cap, which is nice but not a huge deal). We're definitely worse off than before, but overall it's not a horrible compromise.
The solo event isn't guaranteed in the sense that apothecary is though, is it? You run 2 paths in Apothecary and get 1 revive per day guaranteed, solo events require much more time than that so can't be included as a guaranteed revive in the same way. Either way though you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo events if you do go for them ... which is the same quantity as before, just now you get a little more health (yay). If you're building up level 2s faster than before as a side effect of the solo event change then that means you're losing 1 level 1 revive at the same time
In the 22 hr solo events the revive shows up in milestone 3. For the arena event, that is 3750 points. 5* and 6* activity is going to be between 120 and 250 points per fight, or something like about 15 to 30 fights, or 5 to 10 arena rounds. That's reasonably achievable.
For the Level Up event that is 19360 points. Level up activity is in the range of 700 to 1k points per level for 5* and 6* champs, which is easily achievable with one level ups to max rank and some change.
For hero use it is 125000 points. The point range for typical activity with 5* and 6* champs is 2-4k points per fight, which implies something like 42 fights plus or minus. In terms of farming revives, this is also not an exceptional level of activity.
Event Quest requires 11700 points, which might be the trickiest one to sustain without very careful content management. It would be, say, six Uncollected EQ paths. If I was farming revives, this would be the one I would least be able to count on reliably. although one path to get this would be to do both paths of the expert proving grounds and both paths of the daily expert class quest, which would be 8400 of the 11700 points required. The rest could be gotten from normal monthly EQ activity.
Not once did I say it wasn't reasonably achievable. I was getting at that this Apothecary will take you what? About 5-7 mins to explore ... for the average endgame player?... I'll concede we don't and can't know the actual answer to this yet but at 11.5k team rating recommendation i think its a fair guess. The solo events take longer than that.
Also, let's not forget, the issues kabam had was the farming of acts 1-3 so their solution was to nerf them (in simple terms lol) and then give us that apothecary as a replacement farming method. Where has this solo event thing even come from? What's it got to do with the farming/apothecary issue. In my honest opinion I feel like they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes
The solo 22 hr events are these things:
They contain a level 1 revive (among other things) in milestone 3. That level 1 revive is being promoted to a level 2 revive in their announced changes.
I'm perfectly aware, but thanks for the clarification 👍Changing the revive from a level 1 to a level 2 isn't amazing like they're making it out to be, you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo event and as I keep saying the solo was not the issue.
I have no idea why you keep saying that. "Solo was not the issue." Nobody is saying it was. They are bufffing it to make it more useful within the context of revive farming. The question is why are you making this an issue?
I don't see it as more useful not unless the potion revise is significant as in % based ones. A revive is a revive
If you see L2 revives as identical in value to L1 revives and you see allowing players to fill two inventory slots instead of one as being not useful, then the announced changes will be meaningless to you. But they are also not targeted at players like yourself. The announced changes are targeted at players with more reasonable to accommodate value judgments.
20% 40% ... 1 combo in EoP is going to eat it regardless. That is after all the intended content (endgame) at which this whole thing originated around and continues to gravitate around. In EQ or story yes a 40% is more valuable
1 combo in EoP is going to eat an entire health bar in most situations so that's a pointless argument. 20% of health is substantial when it comes to taking hits into parried blocks, or is very nice to have when you plan on taking a champ higher in health since 20% equates to a lot of health pots on a boosted r3+ champ.
And you continue to skip over the main point in them doing this.. taking up 2 inventory slots instead of one, letting you double the amount you can hold at any one time. Even is L1 and L2 revives had the exact same value like you claim, does being able to hold 20 vs 40 revives without overflowing hold the same value to you?
If everyone who farmed 3.2.6 ensured that they ticked the solo event everyday then yes this is a good thing but it is contigent on the solo event been done otherwise its not much of an improvement. Its a guaranteed increase of 2 revives from the apothecary in comparison to the original announcement. If you don't actively try to do the solo events then there is no 2nd slot you're filling
So basically it's just another 2 revives per week in comparison to the original change announced 🤨
They literally said in the post that the individual changes seem small but combined they have a big impact, which is true. Did you just choose to skip over that bit or just choosing to only look at one change for some reason?
The biggest change is to the 22hr events being level 2, so we're no longer stockpiling one kind of revive but 2, so in essence doubling the amount of guaranteed revives we can stockpile (while also slightly increasing the cap, which is nice but not a huge deal). We're definitely worse off than before, but overall it's not a horrible compromise.
The solo event isn't guaranteed in the sense that apothecary is though, is it? You run 2 paths in Apothecary and get 1 revive per day guaranteed, solo events require much more time than that so can't be included as a guaranteed revive in the same way. Either way though you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo events if you do go for them ... which is the same quantity as before, just now you get a little more health (yay). If you're building up level 2s faster than before as a side effect of the solo event change then that means you're losing 1 level 1 revive at the same time
In the 22 hr solo events the revive shows up in milestone 3. For the arena event, that is 3750 points. 5* and 6* activity is going to be between 120 and 250 points per fight, or something like about 15 to 30 fights, or 5 to 10 arena rounds. That's reasonably achievable.
For the Level Up event that is 19360 points. Level up activity is in the range of 700 to 1k points per level for 5* and 6* champs, which is easily achievable with one level ups to max rank and some change.
For hero use it is 125000 points. The point range for typical activity with 5* and 6* champs is 2-4k points per fight, which implies something like 42 fights plus or minus. In terms of farming revives, this is also not an exceptional level of activity.
Event Quest requires 11700 points, which might be the trickiest one to sustain without very careful content management. It would be, say, six Uncollected EQ paths. If I was farming revives, this would be the one I would least be able to count on reliably. although one path to get this would be to do both paths of the expert proving grounds and both paths of the daily expert class quest, which would be 8400 of the 11700 points required. The rest could be gotten from normal monthly EQ activity.
Not once did I say it wasn't reasonably achievable. I was getting at that this Apothecary will take you what? About 5-7 mins to explore ... for the average endgame player?... I'll concede we don't and can't know the actual answer to this yet but at 11.5k team rating recommendation i think its a fair guess. The solo events take longer than that.
Also, let's not forget, the issues kabam had was the farming of acts 1-3 so their solution was to nerf them (in simple terms lol) and then give us that apothecary as a replacement farming method. Where has this solo event thing even come from? What's it got to do with the farming/apothecary issue. In my honest opinion I feel like they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes
The solo 22 hr events are these things:
They contain a level 1 revive (among other things) in milestone 3. That level 1 revive is being promoted to a level 2 revive in their announced changes.
I'm perfectly aware, but thanks for the clarification 👍Changing the revive from a level 1 to a level 2 isn't amazing like they're making it out to be, you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo event and as I keep saying the solo was not the issue.
I have no idea why you keep saying that. "Solo was not the issue." Nobody is saying it was. They are bufffing it to make it more useful within the context of revive farming. The question is why are you making this an issue?
I don't see it as more useful not unless the potion revise is significant as in % based ones. A revive is a revive
If you see L2 revives as identical in value to L1 revives and you see allowing players to fill two inventory slots instead of one as being not useful, then the announced changes will be meaningless to you. But they are also not targeted at players like yourself. The announced changes are targeted at players with more reasonable to accommodate value judgments.
20% 40% ... 1 combo in EoP is going to eat it regardless. That is after all the intended content (endgame) at which this whole thing originated around and continues to gravitate around. In EQ or story yes a 40% is more valuable
1 combo in EoP is going to eat an entire health bar in most situations so that's a pointless argument. 20% of health is substantial when it comes to taking hits into parried blocks, or is very nice to have when you plan on taking a champ higher in health since 20% equates to a lot of health pots on a boosted r3+ champ.
And you continue to skip over the main point in them doing this.. taking up 2 inventory slots instead of one, letting you double the amount you can hold at any one time. Even is L1 and L2 revives had the exact same value like you claim, does being able to hold 20 vs 40 revives without overflowing hold the same value to you?
If everyone who farmed 3.2.6 ensured that they ticked the solo event everyday then yes this is a good thing but it is contigent on the solo event been done otherwise its not much of an improvement. Its a guaranteed increase of 2 revives from the apothecary in comparison to the original announcement. If you don't actively try to do the solo events then there is no 2nd slot you're filling
If you’re not willing to do some solo events to prep for everest content then you shouldn’t be commenting on the change anyway. Then you’re just biased towards wanting end game rewards to be handed to you.
Guys I just can't believe you can contradict yourself in literally 3 rows....
"Summoners are meant to have access to units that are provided in specific, measured ways; Summoners are not meant to have access to revives in the current, overtuned capacity."
Sure. Units can be provided in specific, measured ways. But you can literally buy 8 Odin's, then just buy revives from them. And here we are again at the overtuned capacity of revives.
You are really trying to avoid the phrase "as long as you pay for it, you are good", but its not really going well.
Are you saying people should have access to 8 Odins worth of Revs? I understand that wasn't the main point of your comment, but the idea that Players should have for free what others pay for is just as questionable. People spend. They buy Units to save themselves the time it takes to grind and save. Some people have the money to do this, and some don't. That's a reality in this game as much as it is a reality in life. I can't go to a car dealership and ask for a faster way to get the car I want than working, just because some have money at their disposal.
Guys I just can't believe you can contradict yourself in literally 3 rows....
"Summoners are meant to have access to units that are provided in specific, measured ways; Summoners are not meant to have access to revives in the current, overtuned capacity."
Sure. Units can be provided in specific, measured ways. But you can literally buy 8 Odin's, then just buy revives from them. And here we are again at the overtuned capacity of revives.
You are really trying to avoid the phrase "as long as you pay for it, you are good", but its not really going well.
People seem to think there are two kinds of players: free to play, and the ultra rich that can spend unlimited amounts of money. People who spend are not all unlimited spenders.
Yes, there is a way to spend to buy revives, just as there is a way to spend to buy crystals or offers or almost everything else in the game. It isn't "fine" if players spend hundreds of dollars on unlimited revives to blast through content. But for most spending players, that cash has some sort of value. They are making a value choice when they decide to spend that cash. Just like non-spenders make when they decide to spend nothing.
The fact that someone can buy eight Odins doesn't mean all spenders do. They are forced to choose between spending to compete the content or not, and how much. That choice is part of how the game is monetized and supported.
Players also have the choice on whether to farm revives or not. But the choice to farm 3.2.6 was a trivial one compared to the choice on whether to spend hundreds of dollars or not. One of those choices benefits the game and contains a lot of friction to it for the vast majority of spenders. The other one is a trivial decision that has been ludicrously portrayed as being a significant burden, but which I consider to be comparable to the amount of effort required to keep my calendar progressing forward without losing rewards.
That's the difference. And if you think there's no difference, buy the eight Odins and your problem is solved.
The theme of the OG post in short is "with enough revives, you can brute force every content, so there is no point is harder content". But players always had access to unlimited revives - via units, whether that unit was earned or bought. Player could always brute force content with revives. Let me remind you: abyss came out well before the unintented revive farm. People brute forced it on livestreams, with odin-bought revives. But I don't remember if there was any scandal because of that. Revive prices weren't increased, consumable-usage wasn't limited, nothing. But as soon as players who doesn't have an abundance of money in their pocket have access to these revives, there comes a change. And not like these revives just happen to appear in your inventory. Basically you are exchanging your refills to revives, with the added extra of time spent in game, it being as long as it is.
So yes, I can't justify these reasonings for this change like "you never meant to have these amounts of revives" because it's just not true. Be the man and admit that "you never meant to have these amounts of revives, unless you pay for them" And yes, I understand kabam is a company, and they need money, that's totally OK, even I agree with that. But then don't be afraid to admit it, not try to hide behind fake truth.
Money is a limiting factor. On paper, you can buy whatever you want. In actuality, there aren't great numbers of people who have the money to do that. If you're implying it's unfair that people can spend as much as they want, then that's not something that can be resolved in the game. It's a business. They're not going to refuse legitimate funds.
So basically it's just another 2 revives per week in comparison to the original change announced 🤨
They literally said in the post that the individual changes seem small but combined they have a big impact, which is true. Did you just choose to skip over that bit or just choosing to only look at one change for some reason?
The biggest change is to the 22hr events being level 2, so we're no longer stockpiling one kind of revive but 2, so in essence doubling the amount of guaranteed revives we can stockpile (while also slightly increasing the cap, which is nice but not a huge deal). We're definitely worse off than before, but overall it's not a horrible compromise.
The solo event isn't guaranteed in the sense that apothecary is though, is it? You run 2 paths in Apothecary and get 1 revive per day guaranteed, solo events require much more time than that so can't be included as a guaranteed revive in the same way. Either way though you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo events if you do go for them ... which is the same quantity as before, just now you get a little more health (yay). If you're building up level 2s faster than before as a side effect of the solo event change then that means you're losing 1 level 1 revive at the same time
In the 22 hr solo events the revive shows up in milestone 3. For the arena event, that is 3750 points. 5* and 6* activity is going to be between 120 and 250 points per fight, or something like about 15 to 30 fights, or 5 to 10 arena rounds. That's reasonably achievable.
For the Level Up event that is 19360 points. Level up activity is in the range of 700 to 1k points per level for 5* and 6* champs, which is easily achievable with one level ups to max rank and some change.
For hero use it is 125000 points. The point range for typical activity with 5* and 6* champs is 2-4k points per fight, which implies something like 42 fights plus or minus. In terms of farming revives, this is also not an exceptional level of activity.
Event Quest requires 11700 points, which might be the trickiest one to sustain without very careful content management. It would be, say, six Uncollected EQ paths. If I was farming revives, this would be the one I would least be able to count on reliably. although one path to get this would be to do both paths of the expert proving grounds and both paths of the daily expert class quest, which would be 8400 of the 11700 points required. The rest could be gotten from normal monthly EQ activity.
Not once did I say it wasn't reasonably achievable. I was getting at that this Apothecary will take you what? About 5-7 mins to explore ... for the average endgame player?... I'll concede we don't and can't know the actual answer to this yet but at 11.5k team rating recommendation i think its a fair guess. The solo events take longer than that.
Also, let's not forget, the issues kabam had was the farming of acts 1-3 so their solution was to nerf them (in simple terms lol) and then give us that apothecary as a replacement farming method. Where has this solo event thing even come from? What's it got to do with the farming/apothecary issue. In my honest opinion I feel like they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes
The solo 22 hr events are these things:
They contain a level 1 revive (among other things) in milestone 3. That level 1 revive is being promoted to a level 2 revive in their announced changes.
I'm perfectly aware, but thanks for the clarification 👍Changing the revive from a level 1 to a level 2 isn't amazing like they're making it out to be, you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo event and as I keep saying the solo was not the issue.
I have no idea why you keep saying that. "Solo was not the issue." Nobody is saying it was. They are bufffing it to make it more useful within the context of revive farming. The question is why are you making this an issue?
I don't see it as more useful not unless the potion revise is significant as in % based ones. A revive is a revive
If you see L2 revives as identical in value to L1 revives and you see allowing players to fill two inventory slots instead of one as being not useful, then the announced changes will be meaningless to you. But they are also not targeted at players like yourself. The announced changes are targeted at players with more reasonable to accommodate value judgments.
20% 40% ... 1 combo in EoP is going to eat it regardless. That is after all the intended content (endgame) at which this whole thing originated around and continues to gravitate around. In EQ or story yes a 40% is more valuable
1 combo in EoP is going to eat an entire health bar in most situations so that's a pointless argument. 20% of health is substantial when it comes to taking hits into parried blocks, or is very nice to have when you plan on taking a champ higher in health since 20% equates to a lot of health pots on a boosted r3+ champ.
And you continue to skip over the main point in them doing this.. taking up 2 inventory slots instead of one, letting you double the amount you can hold at any one time. Even is L1 and L2 revives had the exact same value like you claim, does being able to hold 20 vs 40 revives without overflowing hold the same value to you?
If everyone who farmed 3.2.6 ensured that they ticked the solo event everyday then yes this is a good thing but it is contigent on the solo event been done otherwise its not much of an improvement. Its a guaranteed increase of 2 revives from the apothecary in comparison to the original announcement. If you don't actively try to do the solo events then there is no 2nd slot you're filling
If you’re not willing to do some solo events to prep for everest content then you shouldn’t be commenting on the change anyway. Then you’re just biased towards wanting end game rewards to be handed to you.
I don't want rewards handed to me, I want consistency. Old way : farm 3.2.6. Initial new way : farm apothecary once a day. Compromise of new way : farm apothecary and ensure you do the solo events. They're telling us we now need to do more than their initial proposal if we want more revives. When every man and his dog (bar a few) was asking for them to increase the rewards to something more acceptable. This is, in a way, more acceptable but you have to do more to get it which isn't a compromise imo
So basically it's just another 2 revives per week in comparison to the original change announced 🤨
They literally said in the post that the individual changes seem small but combined they have a big impact, which is true. Did you just choose to skip over that bit or just choosing to only look at one change for some reason?
The biggest change is to the 22hr events being level 2, so we're no longer stockpiling one kind of revive but 2, so in essence doubling the amount of guaranteed revives we can stockpile (while also slightly increasing the cap, which is nice but not a huge deal). We're definitely worse off than before, but overall it's not a horrible compromise.
The solo event isn't guaranteed in the sense that apothecary is though, is it? You run 2 paths in Apothecary and get 1 revive per day guaranteed, solo events require much more time than that so can't be included as a guaranteed revive in the same way. Either way though you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo events if you do go for them ... which is the same quantity as before, just now you get a little more health (yay). If you're building up level 2s faster than before as a side effect of the solo event change then that means you're losing 1 level 1 revive at the same time
In the 22 hr solo events the revive shows up in milestone 3. For the arena event, that is 3750 points. 5* and 6* activity is going to be between 120 and 250 points per fight, or something like about 15 to 30 fights, or 5 to 10 arena rounds. That's reasonably achievable.
For the Level Up event that is 19360 points. Level up activity is in the range of 700 to 1k points per level for 5* and 6* champs, which is easily achievable with one level ups to max rank and some change.
For hero use it is 125000 points. The point range for typical activity with 5* and 6* champs is 2-4k points per fight, which implies something like 42 fights plus or minus. In terms of farming revives, this is also not an exceptional level of activity.
Event Quest requires 11700 points, which might be the trickiest one to sustain without very careful content management. It would be, say, six Uncollected EQ paths. If I was farming revives, this would be the one I would least be able to count on reliably. although one path to get this would be to do both paths of the expert proving grounds and both paths of the daily expert class quest, which would be 8400 of the 11700 points required. The rest could be gotten from normal monthly EQ activity.
Not once did I say it wasn't reasonably achievable. I was getting at that this Apothecary will take you what? About 5-7 mins to explore ... for the average endgame player?... I'll concede we don't and can't know the actual answer to this yet but at 11.5k team rating recommendation i think its a fair guess. The solo events take longer than that.
Also, let's not forget, the issues kabam had was the farming of acts 1-3 so their solution was to nerf them (in simple terms lol) and then give us that apothecary as a replacement farming method. Where has this solo event thing even come from? What's it got to do with the farming/apothecary issue. In my honest opinion I feel like they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes
The solo 22 hr events are these things:
They contain a level 1 revive (among other things) in milestone 3. That level 1 revive is being promoted to a level 2 revive in their announced changes.
I'm perfectly aware, but thanks for the clarification 👍Changing the revive from a level 1 to a level 2 isn't amazing like they're making it out to be, you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo event and as I keep saying the solo was not the issue.
I have no idea why you keep saying that. "Solo was not the issue." Nobody is saying it was. They are bufffing it to make it more useful within the context of revive farming. The question is why are you making this an issue?
I don't see it as more useful not unless the potion revise is significant as in % based ones. A revive is a revive
If you see L2 revives as identical in value to L1 revives and you see allowing players to fill two inventory slots instead of one as being not useful, then the announced changes will be meaningless to you. But they are also not targeted at players like yourself. The announced changes are targeted at players with more reasonable to accommodate value judgments.
20% 40% ... 1 combo in EoP is going to eat it regardless. That is after all the intended content (endgame) at which this whole thing originated around and continues to gravitate around. In EQ or story yes a 40% is more valuable
1 combo in EoP is going to eat an entire health bar in most situations so that's a pointless argument. 20% of health is substantial when it comes to taking hits into parried blocks, or is very nice to have when you plan on taking a champ higher in health since 20% equates to a lot of health pots on a boosted r3+ champ.
And you continue to skip over the main point in them doing this.. taking up 2 inventory slots instead of one, letting you double the amount you can hold at any one time. Even is L1 and L2 revives had the exact same value like you claim, does being able to hold 20 vs 40 revives without overflowing hold the same value to you?
If everyone who farmed 3.2.6 ensured that they ticked the solo event everyday then yes this is a good thing but it is contigent on the solo event been done otherwise its not much of an improvement. Its a guaranteed increase of 2 revives from the apothecary in comparison to the original announcement. If you don't actively try to do the solo events then there is no 2nd slot you're filling
If you’re not willing to do some solo events to prep for everest content then you shouldn’t be commenting on the change anyway. Then you’re just biased towards wanting end game rewards to be handed to you.
I don't want rewards handed to me, I want consistency. Old way : farm 3.2.6. Initial new way : farm apothecary once a day. Compromise of new way : farm apothecary and ensure you do the solo events. They're telling us we now need to do more than their initial proposal if we want more revives. When every man and his dog (bar a few) was asking for them to increase the rewards to something more acceptable. This is, in a way, more acceptable but you have to do more to get it which isn't a compromise imo
The solo event was a side hustle for getting a revive now it'll be a must if you want to get a more acceptable amount
So basically it's just another 2 revives per week in comparison to the original change announced 🤨
They literally said in the post that the individual changes seem small but combined they have a big impact, which is true. Did you just choose to skip over that bit or just choosing to only look at one change for some reason?
The biggest change is to the 22hr events being level 2, so we're no longer stockpiling one kind of revive but 2, so in essence doubling the amount of guaranteed revives we can stockpile (while also slightly increasing the cap, which is nice but not a huge deal). We're definitely worse off than before, but overall it's not a horrible compromise.
The solo event isn't guaranteed in the sense that apothecary is though, is it? You run 2 paths in Apothecary and get 1 revive per day guaranteed, solo events require much more time than that so can't be included as a guaranteed revive in the same way. Either way though you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo events if you do go for them ... which is the same quantity as before, just now you get a little more health (yay). If you're building up level 2s faster than before as a side effect of the solo event change then that means you're losing 1 level 1 revive at the same time
In the 22 hr solo events the revive shows up in milestone 3. For the arena event, that is 3750 points. 5* and 6* activity is going to be between 120 and 250 points per fight, or something like about 15 to 30 fights, or 5 to 10 arena rounds. That's reasonably achievable.
For the Level Up event that is 19360 points. Level up activity is in the range of 700 to 1k points per level for 5* and 6* champs, which is easily achievable with one level ups to max rank and some change.
For hero use it is 125000 points. The point range for typical activity with 5* and 6* champs is 2-4k points per fight, which implies something like 42 fights plus or minus. In terms of farming revives, this is also not an exceptional level of activity.
Event Quest requires 11700 points, which might be the trickiest one to sustain without very careful content management. It would be, say, six Uncollected EQ paths. If I was farming revives, this would be the one I would least be able to count on reliably. although one path to get this would be to do both paths of the expert proving grounds and both paths of the daily expert class quest, which would be 8400 of the 11700 points required. The rest could be gotten from normal monthly EQ activity.
Not once did I say it wasn't reasonably achievable. I was getting at that this Apothecary will take you what? About 5-7 mins to explore ... for the average endgame player?... I'll concede we don't and can't know the actual answer to this yet but at 11.5k team rating recommendation i think its a fair guess. The solo events take longer than that.
Also, let's not forget, the issues kabam had was the farming of acts 1-3 so their solution was to nerf them (in simple terms lol) and then give us that apothecary as a replacement farming method. Where has this solo event thing even come from? What's it got to do with the farming/apothecary issue. In my honest opinion I feel like they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes
The solo 22 hr events are these things:
They contain a level 1 revive (among other things) in milestone 3. That level 1 revive is being promoted to a level 2 revive in their announced changes.
I'm perfectly aware, but thanks for the clarification 👍Changing the revive from a level 1 to a level 2 isn't amazing like they're making it out to be, you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo event and as I keep saying the solo was not the issue.
I have no idea why you keep saying that. "Solo was not the issue." Nobody is saying it was. They are bufffing it to make it more useful within the context of revive farming. The question is why are you making this an issue?
I don't see it as more useful not unless the potion revise is significant as in % based ones. A revive is a revive
If you see L2 revives as identical in value to L1 revives and you see allowing players to fill two inventory slots instead of one as being not useful, then the announced changes will be meaningless to you. But they are also not targeted at players like yourself. The announced changes are targeted at players with more reasonable to accommodate value judgments.
20% 40% ... 1 combo in EoP is going to eat it regardless. That is after all the intended content (endgame) at which this whole thing originated around and continues to gravitate around. In EQ or story yes a 40% is more valuable
1 combo in EoP is going to eat an entire health bar in most situations so that's a pointless argument. 20% of health is substantial when it comes to taking hits into parried blocks, or is very nice to have when you plan on taking a champ higher in health since 20% equates to a lot of health pots on a boosted r3+ champ.
And you continue to skip over the main point in them doing this.. taking up 2 inventory slots instead of one, letting you double the amount you can hold at any one time. Even is L1 and L2 revives had the exact same value like you claim, does being able to hold 20 vs 40 revives without overflowing hold the same value to you?
If everyone who farmed 3.2.6 ensured that they ticked the solo event everyday then yes this is a good thing but it is contigent on the solo event been done otherwise its not much of an improvement. Its a guaranteed increase of 2 revives from the apothecary in comparison to the original announcement. If you don't actively try to do the solo events then there is no 2nd slot you're filling
If you’re not willing to do some solo events to prep for everest content then you shouldn’t be commenting on the change anyway. Then you’re just biased towards wanting end game rewards to be handed to you.
I don't want rewards handed to me, I want consistency. Old way : farm 3.2.6. Initial new way : farm apothecary once a day. Compromise of new way : farm apothecary and ensure you do the solo events. They're telling us we now need to do more than their initial proposal if we want more revives. When every man and his dog (bar a few) was asking for them to increase the rewards to something more acceptable. This is, in a way, more acceptable but you have to do more to get it which isn't a compromise imo
People that were farming revives before still did the solo events, what? Do you think those were just irrelevant content before? And by definition this is a compromise.. originally we had to do more for less, now we still have to do more but it’s for more than what they previously offered (not more than the the original method, but more than their previous change idea).
Your arguments are seemingly based on a lack of understanding. I’m not sure if there’s a way to make you see what people are telling you.
Increase capacity further and greatly improve 4hr crystal revive rate. This is still unacceptable when you look at Carina challenge minimum requirements and bugs.
So basically it's just another 2 revives per week in comparison to the original change announced 🤨
They literally said in the post that the individual changes seem small but combined they have a big impact, which is true. Did you just choose to skip over that bit or just choosing to only look at one change for some reason?
The biggest change is to the 22hr events being level 2, so we're no longer stockpiling one kind of revive but 2, so in essence doubling the amount of guaranteed revives we can stockpile (while also slightly increasing the cap, which is nice but not a huge deal). We're definitely worse off than before, but overall it's not a horrible compromise.
The solo event isn't guaranteed in the sense that apothecary is though, is it? You run 2 paths in Apothecary and get 1 revive per day guaranteed, solo events require much more time than that so can't be included as a guaranteed revive in the same way. Either way though you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo events if you do go for them ... which is the same quantity as before, just now you get a little more health (yay). If you're building up level 2s faster than before as a side effect of the solo event change then that means you're losing 1 level 1 revive at the same time
In the 22 hr solo events the revive shows up in milestone 3. For the arena event, that is 3750 points. 5* and 6* activity is going to be between 120 and 250 points per fight, or something like about 15 to 30 fights, or 5 to 10 arena rounds. That's reasonably achievable.
For the Level Up event that is 19360 points. Level up activity is in the range of 700 to 1k points per level for 5* and 6* champs, which is easily achievable with one level ups to max rank and some change.
For hero use it is 125000 points. The point range for typical activity with 5* and 6* champs is 2-4k points per fight, which implies something like 42 fights plus or minus. In terms of farming revives, this is also not an exceptional level of activity.
Event Quest requires 11700 points, which might be the trickiest one to sustain without very careful content management. It would be, say, six Uncollected EQ paths. If I was farming revives, this would be the one I would least be able to count on reliably. although one path to get this would be to do both paths of the expert proving grounds and both paths of the daily expert class quest, which would be 8400 of the 11700 points required. The rest could be gotten from normal monthly EQ activity.
Not once did I say it wasn't reasonably achievable. I was getting at that this Apothecary will take you what? About 5-7 mins to explore ... for the average endgame player?... I'll concede we don't and can't know the actual answer to this yet but at 11.5k team rating recommendation i think its a fair guess. The solo events take longer than that.
Also, let's not forget, the issues kabam had was the farming of acts 1-3 so their solution was to nerf them (in simple terms lol) and then give us that apothecary as a replacement farming method. Where has this solo event thing even come from? What's it got to do with the farming/apothecary issue. In my honest opinion I feel like they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes
The solo 22 hr events are these things:
They contain a level 1 revive (among other things) in milestone 3. That level 1 revive is being promoted to a level 2 revive in their announced changes.
I'm perfectly aware, but thanks for the clarification 👍Changing the revive from a level 1 to a level 2 isn't amazing like they're making it out to be, you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo event and as I keep saying the solo was not the issue.
I have no idea why you keep saying that. "Solo was not the issue." Nobody is saying it was. They are bufffing it to make it more useful within the context of revive farming. The question is why are you making this an issue?
I don't see it as more useful not unless the potion revise is significant as in % based ones. A revive is a revive
If you see L2 revives as identical in value to L1 revives and you see allowing players to fill two inventory slots instead of one as being not useful, then the announced changes will be meaningless to you. But they are also not targeted at players like yourself. The announced changes are targeted at players with more reasonable to accommodate value judgments.
20% 40% ... 1 combo in EoP is going to eat it regardless. That is after all the intended content (endgame) at which this whole thing originated around and continues to gravitate around. In EQ or story yes a 40% is more valuable
1 combo in EoP is going to eat an entire health bar in most situations so that's a pointless argument. 20% of health is substantial when it comes to taking hits into parried blocks, or is very nice to have when you plan on taking a champ higher in health since 20% equates to a lot of health pots on a boosted r3+ champ.
And you continue to skip over the main point in them doing this.. taking up 2 inventory slots instead of one, letting you double the amount you can hold at any one time. Even is L1 and L2 revives had the exact same value like you claim, does being able to hold 20 vs 40 revives without overflowing hold the same value to you?
If everyone who farmed 3.2.6 ensured that they ticked the solo event everyday then yes this is a good thing but it is contigent on the solo event been done otherwise its not much of an improvement. Its a guaranteed increase of 2 revives from the apothecary in comparison to the original announcement. If you don't actively try to do the solo events then there is no 2nd slot you're filling
If you’re not willing to do some solo events to prep for everest content then you shouldn’t be commenting on the change anyway. Then you’re just biased towards wanting end game rewards to be handed to you.
I don't want rewards handed to me, I want consistency. Old way : farm 3.2.6. Initial new way : farm apothecary once a day. Compromise of new way : farm apothecary and ensure you do the solo events. They're telling us we now need to do more than their initial proposal if we want more revives. When every man and his dog (bar a few) was asking for them to increase the rewards to something more acceptable. This is, in a way, more acceptable but you have to do more to get it which isn't a compromise imo
The solo event was a side hustle for getting a revive now it'll be a must if you want to get a more acceptable amount
The problem is your definition of an “acceptable amount” is based off of a method of obtaining what were essentially unlimited revives, which did heavily trivialize everest content. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not arguing that Kabam’s compromise here is good enough. I think they have a ways to go. But the old method was definitely not healthy for the game.
So basically it's just another 2 revives per week in comparison to the original change announced 🤨
They literally said in the post that the individual changes seem small but combined they have a big impact, which is true. Did you just choose to skip over that bit or just choosing to only look at one change for some reason?
The biggest change is to the 22hr events being level 2, so we're no longer stockpiling one kind of revive but 2, so in essence doubling the amount of guaranteed revives we can stockpile (while also slightly increasing the cap, which is nice but not a huge deal). We're definitely worse off than before, but overall it's not a horrible compromise.
The solo event isn't guaranteed in the sense that apothecary is though, is it? You run 2 paths in Apothecary and get 1 revive per day guaranteed, solo events require much more time than that so can't be included as a guaranteed revive in the same way. Either way though you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo events if you do go for them ... which is the same quantity as before, just now you get a little more health (yay). If you're building up level 2s faster than before as a side effect of the solo event change then that means you're losing 1 level 1 revive at the same time
In the 22 hr solo events the revive shows up in milestone 3. For the arena event, that is 3750 points. 5* and 6* activity is going to be between 120 and 250 points per fight, or something like about 15 to 30 fights, or 5 to 10 arena rounds. That's reasonably achievable.
For the Level Up event that is 19360 points. Level up activity is in the range of 700 to 1k points per level for 5* and 6* champs, which is easily achievable with one level ups to max rank and some change.
For hero use it is 125000 points. The point range for typical activity with 5* and 6* champs is 2-4k points per fight, which implies something like 42 fights plus or minus. In terms of farming revives, this is also not an exceptional level of activity.
Event Quest requires 11700 points, which might be the trickiest one to sustain without very careful content management. It would be, say, six Uncollected EQ paths. If I was farming revives, this would be the one I would least be able to count on reliably. although one path to get this would be to do both paths of the expert proving grounds and both paths of the daily expert class quest, which would be 8400 of the 11700 points required. The rest could be gotten from normal monthly EQ activity.
Not once did I say it wasn't reasonably achievable. I was getting at that this Apothecary will take you what? About 5-7 mins to explore ... for the average endgame player?... I'll concede we don't and can't know the actual answer to this yet but at 11.5k team rating recommendation i think its a fair guess. The solo events take longer than that.
Also, let's not forget, the issues kabam had was the farming of acts 1-3 so their solution was to nerf them (in simple terms lol) and then give us that apothecary as a replacement farming method. Where has this solo event thing even come from? What's it got to do with the farming/apothecary issue. In my honest opinion I feel like they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes
The solo 22 hr events are these things:
They contain a level 1 revive (among other things) in milestone 3. That level 1 revive is being promoted to a level 2 revive in their announced changes.
I'm perfectly aware, but thanks for the clarification 👍Changing the revive from a level 1 to a level 2 isn't amazing like they're making it out to be, you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo event and as I keep saying the solo was not the issue.
I have no idea why you keep saying that. "Solo was not the issue." Nobody is saying it was. They are bufffing it to make it more useful within the context of revive farming. The question is why are you making this an issue?
I don't see it as more useful not unless the potion revise is significant as in % based ones. A revive is a revive
If you see L2 revives as identical in value to L1 revives and you see allowing players to fill two inventory slots instead of one as being not useful, then the announced changes will be meaningless to you. But they are also not targeted at players like yourself. The announced changes are targeted at players with more reasonable to accommodate value judgments.
20% 40% ... 1 combo in EoP is going to eat it regardless. That is after all the intended content (endgame) at which this whole thing originated around and continues to gravitate around. In EQ or story yes a 40% is more valuable
It's valuable because it means extra revives you can fill your inventory with , without flowing into stash
Please understand that the following comments are coming from a place of criticism and not antagonism.
Bluntly, the compromise isn't good enough. The changes to the inventory cap should have been implemented regardless of the community outrage. The apothecary appears to be in no way better than idle farming 3.2.6. The change from L1 to L2 for the 22 hour solo event is fine.
"Design Transparency" is transparent only in that it's obviously a mechanism to force summoners to use units to get through content. In no way is this less trivializing to "aspirational content" than the ability to replay early game content to stash revives. In fact, it's more so, because it means anyone willing to spend out of game currency can "unit-man" their way through any content, skill or no.
The community understands that MCOC can't be run for free, but what Kabam doesn't seem to understand is that when they antagonize the community base, those of us who are somewhere in between the strictly free to play summoners and the all out whale summoners are less likely to spend. It seems obvious to me that this is the demographic that the developers need most in order to flourish, and it's the demographic most likely to withhold their spending when the game has consistent issues that appear to be ignored like the control inputs and the obvious brazen cheating in Battlegrounds, the Arena, and now in March, in the Side Quest.
With those issues, making changes that antagonize the community like removing a source of consumables seems unwise. I've spent plenty of real world money in this game, but I've played for free since 2022 and until this culture of wringing the summoners for everything they're worth is changed, I'm not going to spend a dime. I'm not ready to stop playing, but I won't be getting a sigil or unit card or Spring Cleaning or 4th of July or anything in between.
"When we look to develop new endgame content, we set goals for that content. We set challenge goals: how hard should it be? We set progression goals: how powerful should Summoners have to be to tackle it and how powerful should they be once they complete it? We set time goals: how much active play time should it require and how many days/weeks/months should it take for Summoners at various progression tiers to complete it? And we set consumable goals: how many units, potions, revives, boosts, etc., do we expect players to use. "
So @Kabam Jax , would the design team be able to provide the aforemetioned goals for the following content? 1. Carina's vol 1: Miike's revenge, Dance off, O canada, Inhuman stamina (assuming all required champs available and at max rank and sig) 2. Carina's vol 2: Mutant domination, Carina's challengers, Revolution, (assuming all required champs at 6* R3 appropriate sig level) 3. All of Carina's vol 3 challenges (assuming all required champs available at 6* R4 appropriae sig level but no champ swap gate used.)
This would allow us players to see how realistic the new consumable economy update allows us to handle these types of content.
I don't want rewards handed to me, I want consistency. Old way : farm 3.2.6. Initial new way : farm apothecary once a day. Compromise of new way : farm apothecary and ensure you do the solo events. They're telling us we now need to do more than their initial proposal if we want more revives. When every man and his dog (bar a few) was asking for them to increase the rewards to something more acceptable. This is, in a way, more acceptable but you have to do more to get it which isn't a compromise imo
Agreed. Setting aside what is 'acceptable number of revives', the New changes changes the calculus of energy.
Despite Energy remaining static this whole time, there is now the need to balance EQ + Apothecary +/- SQ (depending on month) +/- BG (depending on whether you use Elder Marks or not) + the official expectation that 22 h Event Completion is part of your Revive calculus.
There are no changes to how much energy refills one can typically get, so despite an increase to expected energy usage, one's energy and refills remain the same. This means there is an overall increase to energy demand, if you want to maximize your account's potential.
This feels kind of similar to how Kabam rolled out Paragon. They essentially included an Act completion offer as being part of the calculated sources of T6b/T3a, when those offers have never been included in the calculus.
Of course, people will argue that: (1) you don't have to do it (which is not a very useful argument, as it just ends the discussion without any counterpoint) (2) your revive-to-energy ratio was artificially inflated this whole time, so the New way is more realistic. Yes, but, that is a separate discussions.
Comments
"Summoners are meant to have access to units that are provided in specific, measured ways; Summoners are not meant to have access to revives in the current, overtuned capacity."
Sure. Units can be provided in specific, measured ways. But you can literally buy 8 Odin's, then just buy revives from them. And here we are again at the overtuned capacity of revives.
You are really trying to avoid the phrase "as long as you pay for it, you are good", but its not really going well.
Please increase the inventory caps. Only being able to hold 15 revives and 25 potions is far too low for a player as hopeless as myself. Also make aq 2 days or better yet 1.
Sincerely,
My alliance
Speaking to the first point of the post and adjusting the number of revives that can be kept in inventory, I actually agree with and can get behind this increase, but only if the potion issue is also resolved (more on that later)
Timeline - This is just unacceptable in my opinion. Changing anything (and preparing to release the next Everest content) without having the full timeline coordinated for fixing the issue is irresponsible.
Potion Ecosystem - This is really the bulk of my heartburn and why I think this should all be delayed. The reason most people "spam" revives for content is because there is no good way to obtain enough potions to do the content that is put out. The post states that content is designed with certain item use and revive count in mind, but if the content requires 70 revives, but you can't heal your champion more than 20%, maybe that same content takes 90-100 revives without healing. It really doesn't make sense to change anything about availability of revives until you're ready to also address the potions. The easiest solution here is change them from fixed value potions to percentage based. Also, if you're anticipating content to need X number of revives, and we should be able to obtain enough potions to heal to full X number of times.
Transparent Design Philosophy - the main thing I took away from this section was:
"We set challenge goals: how hard should it be? We set progression goals: how powerful should Summoners have to be to tackle it and how powerful should they be once they complete it? We set time goals: how much active play time should it require and how many days/weeks/months should it take for Summoners at various progression tiers to complete it? And we set consumable goals: how many units, potions, revives, boosts, etc., do we expect players to use."
Most of these issues can be resolved and have no bearing on consumables. If you think that summoners should have a certain progression level to do certain content, but put it behind a progression title. If you think it should take a certain amount of time, release it slower. And if you truly have consumable goals, then put an item limit. The truth is, you don't have any issue with any of those things as long as a summoner is PAYING for the consumables they use. I would also LOVE to see what the intended consumable plan was for certain pieces of content when it was released vs what what actually used at the time, and also what you can do it for now. Obviously when Labyrinth of Legends was first released, r5 5* were not even released yet and most of our large damage dealing champs weren't around. I don't remember anyone doing LOL cheaply until Blade, Ghost and Aegon came around. Several people did LOL with 4* Starlord and this was CELEBRATED by kabam as a great achievement. There was no comment at that time stating that people were using more revives than was intended, or completing it with smaller accounts that hadn't achieved certain titles. All of this comes down to GREED. You're beating around the bush, but it's obvious to all of us that you don't care if we use resources to complete content, you care if we do it without buying our revives with units.
How is grinding for units different than grinding for revives - Let's be honest, there is really only one mode in this game that is net positive for grinding units and that is arena. I'll ignore the fact for now that kabam does literally nothing to deal with the arena bots that players run to get those precious units. If kabam truly wants us to use units as the catch all solution, than allow us to get units in EVERY game mode. I should be able to get units in incursions, arena, battlegrounds, EQ, side events and story content. They all take my time and can theoretically all be use to grind units if they would change it a little. Also, the difference between grinding units and grinding revives currently is just time/value. The reason people grind revives currently is because it is just way more time efficient. If it was the other way around, people would be grinding units instead. Also, lets just be clear that I would not classify arena as "engaged play". I've seen people win arena fights without even looking at their screen. The difficulty of arena is only slightly more difficult that hitting the autoplay button.
Yes, there is a way to spend to buy revives, just as there is a way to spend to buy crystals or offers or almost everything else in the game. It isn't "fine" if players spend hundreds of dollars on unlimited revives to blast through content. But for most spending players, that cash has some sort of value. They are making a value choice when they decide to spend that cash. Just like non-spenders make when they decide to spend nothing.
The fact that someone can buy eight Odins doesn't mean all spenders do. They are forced to choose between spending to compete the content or not, and how much. That choice is part of how the game is monetized and supported.
Players also have the choice on whether to farm revives or not. But the choice to farm 3.2.6 was a trivial one compared to the choice on whether to spend hundreds of dollars or not. One of those choices benefits the game and contains a lot of friction to it for the vast majority of spenders. The other one is a trivial decision that has been ludicrously portrayed as being a significant burden, but which I consider to be comparable to the amount of effort required to keep my calendar progressing forward without losing rewards.
That's the difference. And if you think there's no difference, buy the eight Odins and your problem is solved.
And you continue to skip over the main point in them doing this.. taking up 2 inventory slots instead of one, letting you double the amount you can hold at any one time. Even is L1 and L2 revives had the exact same value like you claim, does being able to hold 20 vs 40 revives without overflowing hold the same value to you?
EVERY piece of content is technically inevitable as long as revives are available for a simple currency such as units. It's just a matter of how much people grind arena and/or spend money to stockpile those resources. Don't really see how this argument is valid.
And not like these revives just happen to appear in your inventory. Basically you are exchanging your refills to revives, with the added extra of time spent in game, it being as long as it is.
So yes, I can't justify these reasonings for this change like "you never meant to have these amounts of revives" because it's just not true. Be the man and admit that "you never meant to have these amounts of revives, unless you pay for them"
And yes, I understand kabam is a company, and they need money, that's totally OK, even I agree with that. But then don't be afraid to admit it, not try to hide behind fake truth.
If you're implying it's unfair that people can spend as much as they want, then that's not something that can be resolved in the game. It's a business. They're not going to refuse legitimate funds.
Your arguments are seemingly based on a lack of understanding. I’m not sure if there’s a way to make you see what people are telling you.
Bluntly, the compromise isn't good enough. The changes to the inventory cap should have been implemented regardless of the community outrage. The apothecary appears to be in no way better than idle farming 3.2.6. The change from L1 to L2 for the 22 hour solo event is fine.
"Design Transparency" is transparent only in that it's obviously a mechanism to force summoners to use units to get through content. In no way is this less trivializing to "aspirational content" than the ability to replay early game content to stash revives. In fact, it's more so, because it means anyone willing to spend out of game currency can "unit-man" their way through any content, skill or no.
The community understands that MCOC can't be run for free, but what Kabam doesn't seem to understand is that when they antagonize the community base, those of us who are somewhere in between the strictly free to play summoners and the all out whale summoners are less likely to spend. It seems obvious to me that this is the demographic that the developers need most in order to flourish, and it's the demographic most likely to withhold their spending when the game has consistent issues that appear to be ignored like the control inputs and the obvious brazen cheating in Battlegrounds, the Arena, and now in March, in the Side Quest.
With those issues, making changes that antagonize the community like removing a source of consumables seems unwise. I've spent plenty of real world money in this game, but I've played for free since 2022 and until this culture of wringing the summoners for everything they're worth is changed, I'm not going to spend a dime. I'm not ready to stop playing, but I won't be getting a sigil or unit card or Spring Cleaning or 4th of July or anything in between.
"When we look to develop new endgame content, we set goals for that content.
We set challenge goals: how hard should it be? We set progression goals: how powerful should Summoners have to be to tackle it and how powerful should they be once they complete it? We set time goals: how much active play time should it require and how many days/weeks/months should it take for Summoners at various progression tiers to complete it? And we set consumable goals: how many units, potions, revives, boosts, etc., do we expect players to use. "
So @Kabam Jax , would the design team be able to provide the aforemetioned goals for the following content?
1. Carina's vol 1: Miike's revenge, Dance off, O canada, Inhuman stamina (assuming all required champs available and at max rank and sig)
2. Carina's vol 2: Mutant domination, Carina's challengers, Revolution, (assuming all required champs at 6* R3 appropriate sig level)
3. All of Carina's vol 3 challenges (assuming all required champs available at 6* R4 appropriae sig level but no champ swap gate used.)
This would allow us players to see how realistic the new consumable economy update allows us to handle these types of content.
Despite Energy remaining static this whole time, there is now the need to balance EQ + Apothecary +/- SQ (depending on month) +/- BG (depending on whether you use Elder Marks or not) + the official expectation that 22 h Event Completion is part of your Revive calculus.
There are no changes to how much energy refills one can typically get, so despite an increase to expected energy usage, one's energy and refills remain the same. This means there is an overall increase to energy demand, if you want to maximize your account's potential.
This feels kind of similar to how Kabam rolled out Paragon. They essentially included an Act completion offer as being part of the calculated sources of T6b/T3a, when those offers have never been included in the calculus.
Of course, people will argue that:
(1) you don't have to do it (which is not a very useful argument, as it just ends the discussion without any counterpoint)
(2) your revive-to-energy ratio was artificially inflated this whole time, so the New way is more realistic. Yes, but, that is a separate discussions.