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Post-Update Discussion re: Apothecary/Consumable Economy

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    MackeyMackey Posts: 1,589 ★★★★★
    H3t3r said:

    Mackey said:

    Mackey said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Mackey said:

    Mackey said:

    So basically it's just another 2 revives per week in comparison to the original change announced 🤨

    They literally said in the post that the individual changes seem small but combined they have a big impact, which is true. Did you just choose to skip over that bit or just choosing to only look at one change for some reason?

    The biggest change is to the 22hr events being level 2, so we're no longer stockpiling one kind of revive but 2, so in essence doubling the amount of guaranteed revives we can stockpile (while also slightly increasing the cap, which is nice but not a huge deal). We're definitely worse off than before, but overall it's not a horrible compromise.
    The solo event isn't guaranteed in the sense that apothecary is though, is it? You run 2 paths in Apothecary and get 1 revive per day guaranteed, solo events require much more time than that so can't be included as a guaranteed revive in the same way. Either way though you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo events if you do go for them ... which is the same quantity as before, just now you get a little more health (yay). If you're building up level 2s faster than before as a side effect of the solo event change then that means you're losing 1 level 1 revive at the same time
    In the 22 hr solo events the revive shows up in milestone 3. For the arena event, that is 3750 points. 5* and 6* activity is going to be between 120 and 250 points per fight, or something like about 15 to 30 fights, or 5 to 10 arena rounds. That's reasonably achievable.

    For the Level Up event that is 19360 points. Level up activity is in the range of 700 to 1k points per level for 5* and 6* champs, which is easily achievable with one level ups to max rank and some change.

    For hero use it is 125000 points. The point range for typical activity with 5* and 6* champs is 2-4k points per fight, which implies something like 42 fights plus or minus. In terms of farming revives, this is also not an exceptional level of activity.

    Event Quest requires 11700 points, which might be the trickiest one to sustain without very careful content management. It would be, say, six Uncollected EQ paths. If I was farming revives, this would be the one I would least be able to count on reliably. although one path to get this would be to do both paths of the expert proving grounds and both paths of the daily expert class quest, which would be 8400 of the 11700 points required. The rest could be gotten from normal monthly EQ activity.
    Not once did I say it wasn't reasonably achievable. I was getting at that this Apothecary will take you what? About 5-7 mins to explore ... for the average endgame player?... I'll concede we don't and can't know the actual answer to this yet but at 11.5k team rating recommendation i think its a fair guess. The solo events take longer than that.
    Also, let's not forget, the issues kabam had was the farming of acts 1-3 so their solution was to nerf them (in simple terms lol) and then give us that apothecary as a replacement farming method. Where has this solo event thing even come from? What's it got to do with the farming/apothecary issue. In my honest opinion I feel like they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes
    The solo events are another way to get revives. Each day you can earn a revives plus 25 units. This has been the OG method of getting revives.
    I'm aware of that, but again, what's it got to do with the whole issue of acts 1-3 farming and the apothecary. Solo events wasn't an issue for them and nor was it for us, the issues was farming for them and the change in doing so for us
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    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,875 Guardian
    Mackey said:

    Mackey said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Mackey said:

    Mackey said:

    So basically it's just another 2 revives per week in comparison to the original change announced 🤨

    They literally said in the post that the individual changes seem small but combined they have a big impact, which is true. Did you just choose to skip over that bit or just choosing to only look at one change for some reason?

    The biggest change is to the 22hr events being level 2, so we're no longer stockpiling one kind of revive but 2, so in essence doubling the amount of guaranteed revives we can stockpile (while also slightly increasing the cap, which is nice but not a huge deal). We're definitely worse off than before, but overall it's not a horrible compromise.
    The solo event isn't guaranteed in the sense that apothecary is though, is it? You run 2 paths in Apothecary and get 1 revive per day guaranteed, solo events require much more time than that so can't be included as a guaranteed revive in the same way. Either way though you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo events if you do go for them ... which is the same quantity as before, just now you get a little more health (yay). If you're building up level 2s faster than before as a side effect of the solo event change then that means you're losing 1 level 1 revive at the same time
    In the 22 hr solo events the revive shows up in milestone 3. For the arena event, that is 3750 points. 5* and 6* activity is going to be between 120 and 250 points per fight, or something like about 15 to 30 fights, or 5 to 10 arena rounds. That's reasonably achievable.

    For the Level Up event that is 19360 points. Level up activity is in the range of 700 to 1k points per level for 5* and 6* champs, which is easily achievable with one level ups to max rank and some change.

    For hero use it is 125000 points. The point range for typical activity with 5* and 6* champs is 2-4k points per fight, which implies something like 42 fights plus or minus. In terms of farming revives, this is also not an exceptional level of activity.

    Event Quest requires 11700 points, which might be the trickiest one to sustain without very careful content management. It would be, say, six Uncollected EQ paths. If I was farming revives, this would be the one I would least be able to count on reliably. although one path to get this would be to do both paths of the expert proving grounds and both paths of the daily expert class quest, which would be 8400 of the 11700 points required. The rest could be gotten from normal monthly EQ activity.
    Not once did I say it wasn't reasonably achievable. I was getting at that this Apothecary will take you what? About 5-7 mins to explore ... for the average endgame player?... I'll concede we don't and can't know the actual answer to this yet but at 11.5k team rating recommendation i think its a fair guess. The solo events take longer than that.
    Also, let's not forget, the issues kabam had was the farming of acts 1-3 so their solution was to nerf them (in simple terms lol) and then give us that apothecary as a replacement farming method. Where has this solo event thing even come from? What's it got to do with the farming/apothecary issue. In my honest opinion I feel like they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes
    The solo 22 hr events are these things:



    They contain a level 1 revive (among other things) in milestone 3. That level 1 revive is being promoted to a level 2 revive in their announced changes.
  • Options
    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,875 Guardian
    Mackey said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Mackey said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Mackey said:

    Mackey said:

    So basically it's just another 2 revives per week in comparison to the original change announced 🤨

    They literally said in the post that the individual changes seem small but combined they have a big impact, which is true. Did you just choose to skip over that bit or just choosing to only look at one change for some reason?

    The biggest change is to the 22hr events being level 2, so we're no longer stockpiling one kind of revive but 2, so in essence doubling the amount of guaranteed revives we can stockpile (while also slightly increasing the cap, which is nice but not a huge deal). We're definitely worse off than before, but overall it's not a horrible compromise.
    The solo event isn't guaranteed in the sense that apothecary is though, is it? You run 2 paths in Apothecary and get 1 revive per day guaranteed, solo events require much more time than that so can't be included as a guaranteed revive in the same way. Either way though you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo events if you do go for them ... which is the same quantity as before, just now you get a little more health (yay). If you're building up level 2s faster than before as a side effect of the solo event change then that means you're losing 1 level 1 revive at the same time
    In the 22 hr solo events the revive shows up in milestone 3. For the arena event, that is 3750 points. 5* and 6* activity is going to be between 120 and 250 points per fight, or something like about 15 to 30 fights, or 5 to 10 arena rounds. That's reasonably achievable.

    For the Level Up event that is 19360 points. Level up activity is in the range of 700 to 1k points per level for 5* and 6* champs, which is easily achievable with one level ups to max rank and some change.

    For hero use it is 125000 points. The point range for typical activity with 5* and 6* champs is 2-4k points per fight, which implies something like 42 fights plus or minus. In terms of farming revives, this is also not an exceptional level of activity.

    Event Quest requires 11700 points, which might be the trickiest one to sustain without very careful content management. It would be, say, six Uncollected EQ paths. If I was farming revives, this would be the one I would least be able to count on reliably. although one path to get this would be to do both paths of the expert proving grounds and both paths of the daily expert class quest, which would be 8400 of the 11700 points required. The rest could be gotten from normal monthly EQ activity.
    Not once did I say it wasn't reasonably achievable. I was getting at that this Apothecary will take you what? About 5-7 mins to explore ... for the average endgame player?... I'll concede we don't and can't know the actual answer to this yet but at 11.5k team rating recommendation i think its a fair guess. The solo events take longer than that.
    And I just told you about how much longer.
    I'm sorry, where was the times? Far as i can see you gave me the points required to obtain said revive and potential effort required to do so. Level Up I'll admit though would take less time subject to one having the iso and gold to do it
    I mentioned the points required and a reasonable estimate for points per activity. I don't know how fast you are, but if you film yourself performing those activities and post it somewhere I can extrapolate an estimate for the approximate amount of time in minutes, if this is something you are having difficulty with on your own.
  • Options
    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,875 Guardian
    Mackey said:

    H3t3r said:

    Mackey said:

    Mackey said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Mackey said:

    Mackey said:

    So basically it's just another 2 revives per week in comparison to the original change announced 🤨

    They literally said in the post that the individual changes seem small but combined they have a big impact, which is true. Did you just choose to skip over that bit or just choosing to only look at one change for some reason?

    The biggest change is to the 22hr events being level 2, so we're no longer stockpiling one kind of revive but 2, so in essence doubling the amount of guaranteed revives we can stockpile (while also slightly increasing the cap, which is nice but not a huge deal). We're definitely worse off than before, but overall it's not a horrible compromise.
    The solo event isn't guaranteed in the sense that apothecary is though, is it? You run 2 paths in Apothecary and get 1 revive per day guaranteed, solo events require much more time than that so can't be included as a guaranteed revive in the same way. Either way though you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo events if you do go for them ... which is the same quantity as before, just now you get a little more health (yay). If you're building up level 2s faster than before as a side effect of the solo event change then that means you're losing 1 level 1 revive at the same time
    In the 22 hr solo events the revive shows up in milestone 3. For the arena event, that is 3750 points. 5* and 6* activity is going to be between 120 and 250 points per fight, or something like about 15 to 30 fights, or 5 to 10 arena rounds. That's reasonably achievable.

    For the Level Up event that is 19360 points. Level up activity is in the range of 700 to 1k points per level for 5* and 6* champs, which is easily achievable with one level ups to max rank and some change.

    For hero use it is 125000 points. The point range for typical activity with 5* and 6* champs is 2-4k points per fight, which implies something like 42 fights plus or minus. In terms of farming revives, this is also not an exceptional level of activity.

    Event Quest requires 11700 points, which might be the trickiest one to sustain without very careful content management. It would be, say, six Uncollected EQ paths. If I was farming revives, this would be the one I would least be able to count on reliably. although one path to get this would be to do both paths of the expert proving grounds and both paths of the daily expert class quest, which would be 8400 of the 11700 points required. The rest could be gotten from normal monthly EQ activity.
    Not once did I say it wasn't reasonably achievable. I was getting at that this Apothecary will take you what? About 5-7 mins to explore ... for the average endgame player?... I'll concede we don't and can't know the actual answer to this yet but at 11.5k team rating recommendation i think its a fair guess. The solo events take longer than that.
    Also, let's not forget, the issues kabam had was the farming of acts 1-3 so their solution was to nerf them (in simple terms lol) and then give us that apothecary as a replacement farming method. Where has this solo event thing even come from? What's it got to do with the farming/apothecary issue. In my honest opinion I feel like they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes
    The solo events are another way to get revives. Each day you can earn a revives plus 25 units. This has been the OG method of getting revives.
    I'm aware of that, but again, what's it got to do with the whole issue of acts 1-3 farming and the apothecary. Solo events wasn't an issue for them and nor was it for us, the issues was farming for them and the change in doing so for us
    They are using them to add an additional way to farm revives. Because those revives are currently level 1 revives, they collide with the Apothecary. Both of them feed into the same inventory spot. The objectives are intended to be an additional opportunity to earn additional revives, with the level of effort being higher than the Apothecary but the revives being more valuable higher tier revives, and the combination of the Apothecary path to L1 revives and the Event path to L2 revives effectively doubles the maximum amount of revives a player could conceivably accumulate, but with a tiered level of effort required to obtain them.

    Basically, the Apothecary is the easy way to get the small ones, and the Events are the moderately harder way to get the larger ones, and a player that wants to maximize the amount of resources they can expend on content will have to use both paths to do so. Players who need fewer resources will be able to use just the easy path, players who need more resources will need to do more to get more.
  • Options
    Milan1405Milan1405 Posts: 952 ★★★★
    To Kabam,

    Please increase the inventory caps. Only being able to hold 15 revives and 25 potions is far too low for a player as hopeless as myself. Also make aq 2 days or better yet 1.

    Sincerely,
    My alliance
  • Options
    MackeyMackey Posts: 1,589 ★★★★★
    edited March 2023
    DNA3000 said:

    Mackey said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Mackey said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Mackey said:

    Mackey said:

    So basically it's just another 2 revives per week in comparison to the original change announced 🤨

    They literally said in the post that the individual changes seem small but combined they have a big impact, which is true. Did you just choose to skip over that bit or just choosing to only look at one change for some reason?

    The biggest change is to the 22hr events being level 2, so we're no longer stockpiling one kind of revive but 2, so in essence doubling the amount of guaranteed revives we can stockpile (while also slightly increasing the cap, which is nice but not a huge deal). We're definitely worse off than before, but overall it's not a horrible compromise.
    The solo event isn't guaranteed in the sense that apothecary is though, is it? You run 2 paths in Apothecary and get 1 revive per day guaranteed, solo events require much more time than that so can't be included as a guaranteed revive in the same way. Either way though you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo events if you do go for them ... which is the same quantity as before, just now you get a little more health (yay). If you're building up level 2s faster than before as a side effect of the solo event change then that means you're losing 1 level 1 revive at the same time
    In the 22 hr solo events the revive shows up in milestone 3. For the arena event, that is 3750 points. 5* and 6* activity is going to be between 120 and 250 points per fight, or something like about 15 to 30 fights, or 5 to 10 arena rounds. That's reasonably achievable.

    For the Level Up event that is 19360 points. Level up activity is in the range of 700 to 1k points per level for 5* and 6* champs, which is easily achievable with one level ups to max rank and some change.

    For hero use it is 125000 points. The point range for typical activity with 5* and 6* champs is 2-4k points per fight, which implies something like 42 fights plus or minus. In terms of farming revives, this is also not an exceptional level of activity.

    Event Quest requires 11700 points, which might be the trickiest one to sustain without very careful content management. It would be, say, six Uncollected EQ paths. If I was farming revives, this would be the one I would least be able to count on reliably. although one path to get this would be to do both paths of the expert proving grounds and both paths of the daily expert class quest, which would be 8400 of the 11700 points required. The rest could be gotten from normal monthly EQ activity.
    Not once did I say it wasn't reasonably achievable. I was getting at that this Apothecary will take you what? About 5-7 mins to explore ... for the average endgame player?... I'll concede we don't and can't know the actual answer to this yet but at 11.5k team rating recommendation i think its a fair guess. The solo events take longer than that.
    And I just told you about how much longer.
    I'm sorry, where was the times? Far as i can see you gave me the points required to obtain said revive and potential effort required to do so. Level Up I'll admit though would take less time subject to one having the iso and gold to do it
    I mentioned the points required and a reasonable estimate for points per activity. I don't know how fast you are, but if you film yourself performing those activities and post it somewhere I can extrapolate an estimate for the approximate amount of time in minutes, if this is something you are having difficulty with on your own.
    DNA3000 said:

    Mackey said:

    H3t3r said:

    Mackey said:

    Mackey said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Mackey said:

    Mackey said:

    So basically it's just another 2 revives per week in comparison to the original change announced 🤨

    They literally said in the post that the individual changes seem small but combined they have a big impact, which is true. Did you just choose to skip over that bit or just choosing to only look at one change for some reason?

    The biggest change is to the 22hr events being level 2, so we're no longer stockpiling one kind of revive but 2, so in essence doubling the amount of guaranteed revives we can stockpile (while also slightly increasing the cap, which is nice but not a huge deal). We're definitely worse off than before, but overall it's not a horrible compromise.
    The solo event isn't guaranteed in the sense that apothecary is though, is it? You run 2 paths in Apothecary and get 1 revive per day guaranteed, solo events require much more time than that so can't be included as a guaranteed revive in the same way. Either way though you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo events if you do go for them ... which is the same quantity as before, just now you get a little more health (yay). If you're building up level 2s faster than before as a side effect of the solo event change then that means you're losing 1 level 1 revive at the same time
    In the 22 hr solo events the revive shows up in milestone 3. For the arena event, that is 3750 points. 5* and 6* activity is going to be between 120 and 250 points per fight, or something like about 15 to 30 fights, or 5 to 10 arena rounds. That's reasonably achievable.

    For the Level Up event that is 19360 points. Level up activity is in the range of 700 to 1k points per level for 5* and 6* champs, which is easily achievable with one level ups to max rank and some change.

    For hero use it is 125000 points. The point range for typical activity with 5* and 6* champs is 2-4k points per fight, which implies something like 42 fights plus or minus. In terms of farming revives, this is also not an exceptional level of activity.

    Event Quest requires 11700 points, which might be the trickiest one to sustain without very careful content management. It would be, say, six Uncollected EQ paths. If I was farming revives, this would be the one I would least be able to count on reliably. although one path to get this would be to do both paths of the expert proving grounds and both paths of the daily expert class quest, which would be 8400 of the 11700 points required. The rest could be gotten from normal monthly EQ activity.
    Not once did I say it wasn't reasonably achievable. I was getting at that this Apothecary will take you what? About 5-7 mins to explore ... for the average endgame player?... I'll concede we don't and can't know the actual answer to this yet but at 11.5k team rating recommendation i think its a fair guess. The solo events take longer than that.
    Also, let's not forget, the issues kabam had was the farming of acts 1-3 so their solution was to nerf them (in simple terms lol) and then give us that apothecary as a replacement farming method. Where has this solo event thing even come from? What's it got to do with the farming/apothecary issue. In my honest opinion I feel like they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes
    The solo events are another way to get revives. Each day you can earn a revives plus 25 units. This has been the OG method of getting revives.
    I'm aware of that, but again, what's it got to do with the whole issue of acts 1-3 farming and the apothecary. Solo events wasn't an issue for them and nor was it for us, the issues was farming for them and the change in doing so for us
    They are using them to add an additional way to farm revives. Because those revives are currently level 1 revives, they collide with the Apothecary. Both of them feed into the same inventory spot. The objectives are intended to be an additional opportunity to earn additional revives, with the level of effort being higher than the Apothecary but the revives being more valuable higher tier revives, and the combination of the Apothecary path to L1 revives and the Event path to L2 revives effectively doubles the maximum amount of revives a player could conceivably accumulate, but with a tiered level of effort required to obtain them.

    Basically, the Apothecary is the easy way to get the small ones, and the Events are the moderately harder way to get the larger ones, and a player that wants to maximize the amount of resources they can expend on content will have to use both paths to do so. Players who need fewer resources will be able to use just the easy path, players who need more resources will need to do more to get more.
    I give up lol
  • Options
    VestasCureVestasCure Posts: 137 ★★
    Mackey said:

    H3t3r said:

    Mackey said:

    Mackey said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Mackey said:

    Mackey said:

    So basically it's just another 2 revives per week in comparison to the original change announced 🤨

    They literally said in the post that the individual changes seem small but combined they have a big impact, which is true. Did you just choose to skip over that bit or just choosing to only look at one change for some reason?

    The biggest change is to the 22hr events being level 2, so we're no longer stockpiling one kind of revive but 2, so in essence doubling the amount of guaranteed revives we can stockpile (while also slightly increasing the cap, which is nice but not a huge deal). We're definitely worse off than before, but overall it's not a horrible compromise.
    The solo event isn't guaranteed in the sense that apothecary is though, is it? You run 2 paths in Apothecary and get 1 revive per day guaranteed, solo events require much more time than that so can't be included as a guaranteed revive in the same way. Either way though you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo events if you do go for them ... which is the same quantity as before, just now you get a little more health (yay). If you're building up level 2s faster than before as a side effect of the solo event change then that means you're losing 1 level 1 revive at the same time
    In the 22 hr solo events the revive shows up in milestone 3. For the arena event, that is 3750 points. 5* and 6* activity is going to be between 120 and 250 points per fight, or something like about 15 to 30 fights, or 5 to 10 arena rounds. That's reasonably achievable.

    For the Level Up event that is 19360 points. Level up activity is in the range of 700 to 1k points per level for 5* and 6* champs, which is easily achievable with one level ups to max rank and some change.

    For hero use it is 125000 points. The point range for typical activity with 5* and 6* champs is 2-4k points per fight, which implies something like 42 fights plus or minus. In terms of farming revives, this is also not an exceptional level of activity.

    Event Quest requires 11700 points, which might be the trickiest one to sustain without very careful content management. It would be, say, six Uncollected EQ paths. If I was farming revives, this would be the one I would least be able to count on reliably. although one path to get this would be to do both paths of the expert proving grounds and both paths of the daily expert class quest, which would be 8400 of the 11700 points required. The rest could be gotten from normal monthly EQ activity.
    Not once did I say it wasn't reasonably achievable. I was getting at that this Apothecary will take you what? About 5-7 mins to explore ... for the average endgame player?... I'll concede we don't and can't know the actual answer to this yet but at 11.5k team rating recommendation i think its a fair guess. The solo events take longer than that.
    Also, let's not forget, the issues kabam had was the farming of acts 1-3 so their solution was to nerf them (in simple terms lol) and then give us that apothecary as a replacement farming method. Where has this solo event thing even come from? What's it got to do with the farming/apothecary issue. In my honest opinion I feel like they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes
    The solo events are another way to get revives. Each day you can earn a revives plus 25 units. This has been the OG method of getting revives.
    I'm aware of that, but again, what's it got to do with the whole issue of acts 1-3 farming and the apothecary. Solo events wasn't an issue for them and nor was it for us, the issues was farming for them and the change in doing so for us
    It has to do with the entire revive situation. It's called a compromise (regardless of if you want to call it a good one or not, that's what it is). You keep making this out to be some weird conspiracy because solo events didn't get mentioned before, but solo events have always been a way of farming revives that most players do in addition to the story content farming. So they're buffing something that was always done by players as a bit of compensation to their nerf of the other method of farming. What is so complicated about this?
  • Options
    MackeyMackey Posts: 1,589 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Mackey said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Mackey said:

    Mackey said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Mackey said:

    Mackey said:

    So basically it's just another 2 revives per week in comparison to the original change announced 🤨

    They literally said in the post that the individual changes seem small but combined they have a big impact, which is true. Did you just choose to skip over that bit or just choosing to only look at one change for some reason?

    The biggest change is to the 22hr events being level 2, so we're no longer stockpiling one kind of revive but 2, so in essence doubling the amount of guaranteed revives we can stockpile (while also slightly increasing the cap, which is nice but not a huge deal). We're definitely worse off than before, but overall it's not a horrible compromise.
    The solo event isn't guaranteed in the sense that apothecary is though, is it? You run 2 paths in Apothecary and get 1 revive per day guaranteed, solo events require much more time than that so can't be included as a guaranteed revive in the same way. Either way though you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo events if you do go for them ... which is the same quantity as before, just now you get a little more health (yay). If you're building up level 2s faster than before as a side effect of the solo event change then that means you're losing 1 level 1 revive at the same time
    In the 22 hr solo events the revive shows up in milestone 3. For the arena event, that is 3750 points. 5* and 6* activity is going to be between 120 and 250 points per fight, or something like about 15 to 30 fights, or 5 to 10 arena rounds. That's reasonably achievable.

    For the Level Up event that is 19360 points. Level up activity is in the range of 700 to 1k points per level for 5* and 6* champs, which is easily achievable with one level ups to max rank and some change.

    For hero use it is 125000 points. The point range for typical activity with 5* and 6* champs is 2-4k points per fight, which implies something like 42 fights plus or minus. In terms of farming revives, this is also not an exceptional level of activity.

    Event Quest requires 11700 points, which might be the trickiest one to sustain without very careful content management. It would be, say, six Uncollected EQ paths. If I was farming revives, this would be the one I would least be able to count on reliably. although one path to get this would be to do both paths of the expert proving grounds and both paths of the daily expert class quest, which would be 8400 of the 11700 points required. The rest could be gotten from normal monthly EQ activity.
    Not once did I say it wasn't reasonably achievable. I was getting at that this Apothecary will take you what? About 5-7 mins to explore ... for the average endgame player?... I'll concede we don't and can't know the actual answer to this yet but at 11.5k team rating recommendation i think its a fair guess. The solo events take longer than that.
    Also, let's not forget, the issues kabam had was the farming of acts 1-3 so their solution was to nerf them (in simple terms lol) and then give us that apothecary as a replacement farming method. Where has this solo event thing even come from? What's it got to do with the farming/apothecary issue. In my honest opinion I feel like they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes
    The solo 22 hr events are these things:



    They contain a level 1 revive (among other things) in milestone 3. That level 1 revive is being promoted to a level 2 revive in their announced changes.
    I'm perfectly aware, but thanks for the clarification 👍Changing the revive from a level 1 to a level 2 isn't amazing like they're making it out to be, you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo event and as I keep saying the solo was not the issue.
    I have no idea why you keep saying that. "Solo was not the issue." Nobody is saying it was. They are bufffing it to make it more useful within the context of revive farming. The question is why are you making this an issue?
    I don't see it as more useful not unless the potion revise is significant as in % based ones. A revive is a revive
  • Options
    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,317 ★★★★★
    benshb said:

    Guys I just can't believe you can contradict yourself in literally 3 rows....

    "Summoners are meant to have access to units that are provided in specific, measured ways; Summoners are not meant to have access to revives in the current, overtuned capacity."

    Sure. Units can be provided in specific, measured ways. But you can literally buy 8 Odin's, then just buy revives from them. And here we are again at the overtuned capacity of revives.

    You are really trying to avoid the phrase "as long as you pay for it, you are good", but its not really going well.

    Are you saying people should have access to 8 Odins worth of Revs? I understand that wasn't the main point of your comment, but the idea that Players should have for free what others pay for is just as questionable. People spend. They buy Units to save themselves the time it takes to grind and save. Some people have the money to do this, and some don't. That's a reality in this game as much as it is a reality in life. I can't go to a car dealership and ask for a faster way to get the car I want than working, just because some have money at their disposal.
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    MackeyMackey Posts: 1,589 ★★★★★
    edited March 2023
    DNA3000 said:

    Mackey said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Mackey said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Mackey said:

    Mackey said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Mackey said:

    Mackey said:

    So basically it's just another 2 revives per week in comparison to the original change announced 🤨

    They literally said in the post that the individual changes seem small but combined they have a big impact, which is true. Did you just choose to skip over that bit or just choosing to only look at one change for some reason?

    The biggest change is to the 22hr events being level 2, so we're no longer stockpiling one kind of revive but 2, so in essence doubling the amount of guaranteed revives we can stockpile (while also slightly increasing the cap, which is nice but not a huge deal). We're definitely worse off than before, but overall it's not a horrible compromise.
    The solo event isn't guaranteed in the sense that apothecary is though, is it? You run 2 paths in Apothecary and get 1 revive per day guaranteed, solo events require much more time than that so can't be included as a guaranteed revive in the same way. Either way though you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo events if you do go for them ... which is the same quantity as before, just now you get a little more health (yay). If you're building up level 2s faster than before as a side effect of the solo event change then that means you're losing 1 level 1 revive at the same time
    In the 22 hr solo events the revive shows up in milestone 3. For the arena event, that is 3750 points. 5* and 6* activity is going to be between 120 and 250 points per fight, or something like about 15 to 30 fights, or 5 to 10 arena rounds. That's reasonably achievable.

    For the Level Up event that is 19360 points. Level up activity is in the range of 700 to 1k points per level for 5* and 6* champs, which is easily achievable with one level ups to max rank and some change.

    For hero use it is 125000 points. The point range for typical activity with 5* and 6* champs is 2-4k points per fight, which implies something like 42 fights plus or minus. In terms of farming revives, this is also not an exceptional level of activity.

    Event Quest requires 11700 points, which might be the trickiest one to sustain without very careful content management. It would be, say, six Uncollected EQ paths. If I was farming revives, this would be the one I would least be able to count on reliably. although one path to get this would be to do both paths of the expert proving grounds and both paths of the daily expert class quest, which would be 8400 of the 11700 points required. The rest could be gotten from normal monthly EQ activity.
    Not once did I say it wasn't reasonably achievable. I was getting at that this Apothecary will take you what? About 5-7 mins to explore ... for the average endgame player?... I'll concede we don't and can't know the actual answer to this yet but at 11.5k team rating recommendation i think its a fair guess. The solo events take longer than that.
    Also, let's not forget, the issues kabam had was the farming of acts 1-3 so their solution was to nerf them (in simple terms lol) and then give us that apothecary as a replacement farming method. Where has this solo event thing even come from? What's it got to do with the farming/apothecary issue. In my honest opinion I feel like they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes
    The solo 22 hr events are these things:



    They contain a level 1 revive (among other things) in milestone 3. That level 1 revive is being promoted to a level 2 revive in their announced changes.
    I'm perfectly aware, but thanks for the clarification 👍Changing the revive from a level 1 to a level 2 isn't amazing like they're making it out to be, you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo event and as I keep saying the solo was not the issue.
    I have no idea why you keep saying that. "Solo was not the issue." Nobody is saying it was. They are bufffing it to make it more useful within the context of revive farming. The question is why are you making this an issue?
    I don't see it as more useful not unless the potion revise is significant as in % based ones. A revive is a revive
    If you see L2 revives as identical in value to L1 revives and you see allowing players to fill two inventory slots instead of one as being not useful, then the announced changes will be meaningless to you. But they are also not targeted at players like yourself. The announced changes are targeted at players with more reasonable to accommodate value judgments.
    20% 40% ... 1 combo in EoP is going to eat it regardless. That is after all the intended content (endgame) at which this whole thing originated around and continues to gravitate around. In EQ or story yes a 40% is more valuable
  • Options
    KingInBlackKingInBlack Posts: 313 ★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    benshb said:

    Guys I just can't believe you can contradict yourself in literally 3 rows....

    "Summoners are meant to have access to units that are provided in specific, measured ways; Summoners are not meant to have access to revives in the current, overtuned capacity."

    Sure. Units can be provided in specific, measured ways. But you can literally buy 8 Odin's, then just buy revives from them. And here we are again at the overtuned capacity of revives.

    You are really trying to avoid the phrase "as long as you pay for it, you are good", but its not really going well.

    People seem to think there are two kinds of players: free to play, and the ultra rich that can spend unlimited amounts of money. People who spend are not all unlimited spenders.

    Yes, there is a way to spend to buy revives, just as there is a way to spend to buy crystals or offers or almost everything else in the game. It isn't "fine" if players spend hundreds of dollars on unlimited revives to blast through content. But for most spending players, that cash has some sort of value. They are making a value choice when they decide to spend that cash. Just like non-spenders make when they decide to spend nothing.

    The fact that someone can buy eight Odins doesn't mean all spenders do. They are forced to choose between spending to compete the content or not, and how much. That choice is part of how the game is monetized and supported.

    Players also have the choice on whether to farm revives or not. But the choice to farm 3.2.6 was a trivial one compared to the choice on whether to spend hundreds of dollars or not. One of those choices benefits the game and contains a lot of friction to it for the vast majority of spenders. The other one is a trivial decision that has been ludicrously portrayed as being a significant burden, but which I consider to be comparable to the amount of effort required to keep my calendar progressing forward without losing rewards.

    That's the difference. And if you think there's no difference, buy the eight Odins and your problem is solved.
    You're missing one piece of the puzzle here, and that's lots of people like myself who spend on the game, not whaling out but a decent enough amount on things like July 4th, weekly/monthly deals, monthly units, sigil etc who are comfortable putting out real money for those things given that we don't have to spend to do content and just play and enjoy the game. Obviously it's they're just individual instances but I've seen people leave the game I never thought actually would, and I won't be spending anymore if I'm going to have to start adding to that just to play the content as it comes out now. Maybe that group will be a drop in the bucket and won't matter in the end, I guess we'll see.
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    VestasCureVestasCure Posts: 137 ★★
    Mackey said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Mackey said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Mackey said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Mackey said:

    Mackey said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Mackey said:

    Mackey said:

    So basically it's just another 2 revives per week in comparison to the original change announced 🤨

    They literally said in the post that the individual changes seem small but combined they have a big impact, which is true. Did you just choose to skip over that bit or just choosing to only look at one change for some reason?

    The biggest change is to the 22hr events being level 2, so we're no longer stockpiling one kind of revive but 2, so in essence doubling the amount of guaranteed revives we can stockpile (while also slightly increasing the cap, which is nice but not a huge deal). We're definitely worse off than before, but overall it's not a horrible compromise.
    The solo event isn't guaranteed in the sense that apothecary is though, is it? You run 2 paths in Apothecary and get 1 revive per day guaranteed, solo events require much more time than that so can't be included as a guaranteed revive in the same way. Either way though you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo events if you do go for them ... which is the same quantity as before, just now you get a little more health (yay). If you're building up level 2s faster than before as a side effect of the solo event change then that means you're losing 1 level 1 revive at the same time
    In the 22 hr solo events the revive shows up in milestone 3. For the arena event, that is 3750 points. 5* and 6* activity is going to be between 120 and 250 points per fight, or something like about 15 to 30 fights, or 5 to 10 arena rounds. That's reasonably achievable.

    For the Level Up event that is 19360 points. Level up activity is in the range of 700 to 1k points per level for 5* and 6* champs, which is easily achievable with one level ups to max rank and some change.

    For hero use it is 125000 points. The point range for typical activity with 5* and 6* champs is 2-4k points per fight, which implies something like 42 fights plus or minus. In terms of farming revives, this is also not an exceptional level of activity.

    Event Quest requires 11700 points, which might be the trickiest one to sustain without very careful content management. It would be, say, six Uncollected EQ paths. If I was farming revives, this would be the one I would least be able to count on reliably. although one path to get this would be to do both paths of the expert proving grounds and both paths of the daily expert class quest, which would be 8400 of the 11700 points required. The rest could be gotten from normal monthly EQ activity.
    Not once did I say it wasn't reasonably achievable. I was getting at that this Apothecary will take you what? About 5-7 mins to explore ... for the average endgame player?... I'll concede we don't and can't know the actual answer to this yet but at 11.5k team rating recommendation i think its a fair guess. The solo events take longer than that.
    Also, let's not forget, the issues kabam had was the farming of acts 1-3 so their solution was to nerf them (in simple terms lol) and then give us that apothecary as a replacement farming method. Where has this solo event thing even come from? What's it got to do with the farming/apothecary issue. In my honest opinion I feel like they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes
    The solo 22 hr events are these things:



    They contain a level 1 revive (among other things) in milestone 3. That level 1 revive is being promoted to a level 2 revive in their announced changes.
    I'm perfectly aware, but thanks for the clarification 👍Changing the revive from a level 1 to a level 2 isn't amazing like they're making it out to be, you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo event and as I keep saying the solo was not the issue.
    I have no idea why you keep saying that. "Solo was not the issue." Nobody is saying it was. They are bufffing it to make it more useful within the context of revive farming. The question is why are you making this an issue?
    I don't see it as more useful not unless the potion revise is significant as in % based ones. A revive is a revive
    If you see L2 revives as identical in value to L1 revives and you see allowing players to fill two inventory slots instead of one as being not useful, then the announced changes will be meaningless to you. But they are also not targeted at players like yourself. The announced changes are targeted at players with more reasonable to accommodate value judgments.
    20% 40% ... 1 combo in EoP is going to eat it regardless. That is after all the intended content (endgame) at which this whole thing originated around and continues to gravitate around. In EQ or story yes a 40% is more valuable
    1 combo in EoP is going to eat an entire health bar in most situations so that's a pointless argument. 20% of health is substantial when it comes to taking hits into parried blocks, or is very nice to have when you plan on taking a champ higher in health since 20% equates to a lot of health pots on a boosted r3+ champ.

    And you continue to skip over the main point in them doing this.. taking up 2 inventory slots instead of one, letting you double the amount you can hold at any one time. Even is L1 and L2 revives had the exact same value like you claim, does being able to hold 20 vs 40 revives without overflowing hold the same value to you?
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    Mars___Mars___ Posts: 87 ★★
    Anyother dead thread already? This will also get closed after a week and 1k+ comments without any response as usual.
  • Options
    MackeyMackey Posts: 1,589 ★★★★★

    Mackey said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Mackey said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Mackey said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Mackey said:

    Mackey said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Mackey said:

    Mackey said:

    So basically it's just another 2 revives per week in comparison to the original change announced 🤨

    They literally said in the post that the individual changes seem small but combined they have a big impact, which is true. Did you just choose to skip over that bit or just choosing to only look at one change for some reason?

    The biggest change is to the 22hr events being level 2, so we're no longer stockpiling one kind of revive but 2, so in essence doubling the amount of guaranteed revives we can stockpile (while also slightly increasing the cap, which is nice but not a huge deal). We're definitely worse off than before, but overall it's not a horrible compromise.
    The solo event isn't guaranteed in the sense that apothecary is though, is it? You run 2 paths in Apothecary and get 1 revive per day guaranteed, solo events require much more time than that so can't be included as a guaranteed revive in the same way. Either way though you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo events if you do go for them ... which is the same quantity as before, just now you get a little more health (yay). If you're building up level 2s faster than before as a side effect of the solo event change then that means you're losing 1 level 1 revive at the same time
    In the 22 hr solo events the revive shows up in milestone 3. For the arena event, that is 3750 points. 5* and 6* activity is going to be between 120 and 250 points per fight, or something like about 15 to 30 fights, or 5 to 10 arena rounds. That's reasonably achievable.

    For the Level Up event that is 19360 points. Level up activity is in the range of 700 to 1k points per level for 5* and 6* champs, which is easily achievable with one level ups to max rank and some change.

    For hero use it is 125000 points. The point range for typical activity with 5* and 6* champs is 2-4k points per fight, which implies something like 42 fights plus or minus. In terms of farming revives, this is also not an exceptional level of activity.

    Event Quest requires 11700 points, which might be the trickiest one to sustain without very careful content management. It would be, say, six Uncollected EQ paths. If I was farming revives, this would be the one I would least be able to count on reliably. although one path to get this would be to do both paths of the expert proving grounds and both paths of the daily expert class quest, which would be 8400 of the 11700 points required. The rest could be gotten from normal monthly EQ activity.
    Not once did I say it wasn't reasonably achievable. I was getting at that this Apothecary will take you what? About 5-7 mins to explore ... for the average endgame player?... I'll concede we don't and can't know the actual answer to this yet but at 11.5k team rating recommendation i think its a fair guess. The solo events take longer than that.
    Also, let's not forget, the issues kabam had was the farming of acts 1-3 so their solution was to nerf them (in simple terms lol) and then give us that apothecary as a replacement farming method. Where has this solo event thing even come from? What's it got to do with the farming/apothecary issue. In my honest opinion I feel like they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes
    The solo 22 hr events are these things:



    They contain a level 1 revive (among other things) in milestone 3. That level 1 revive is being promoted to a level 2 revive in their announced changes.
    I'm perfectly aware, but thanks for the clarification 👍Changing the revive from a level 1 to a level 2 isn't amazing like they're making it out to be, you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo event and as I keep saying the solo was not the issue.
    I have no idea why you keep saying that. "Solo was not the issue." Nobody is saying it was. They are bufffing it to make it more useful within the context of revive farming. The question is why are you making this an issue?
    I don't see it as more useful not unless the potion revise is significant as in % based ones. A revive is a revive
    If you see L2 revives as identical in value to L1 revives and you see allowing players to fill two inventory slots instead of one as being not useful, then the announced changes will be meaningless to you. But they are also not targeted at players like yourself. The announced changes are targeted at players with more reasonable to accommodate value judgments.
    20% 40% ... 1 combo in EoP is going to eat it regardless. That is after all the intended content (endgame) at which this whole thing originated around and continues to gravitate around. In EQ or story yes a 40% is more valuable
    1 combo in EoP is going to eat an entire health bar in most situations so that's a pointless argument. 20% of health is substantial when it comes to taking hits into parried blocks, or is very nice to have when you plan on taking a champ higher in health since 20% equates to a lot of health pots on a boosted r3+ champ.

    And you continue to skip over the main point in them doing this.. taking up 2 inventory slots instead of one, letting you double the amount you can hold at any one time. Even is L1 and L2 revives had the exact same value like you claim, does being able to hold 20 vs 40 revives without overflowing hold the same value to you?
    If everyone who farmed 3.2.6 ensured that they ticked the solo event everyday then yes this is a good thing but it is contigent on the solo event been done otherwise its not much of an improvement. Its a guaranteed increase of 2 revives from the apothecary in comparison to the original announcement. If you don't actively try to do the solo events then there is no 2nd slot you're filling
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