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Rank down tickets for Zemo and Kraven…

1…2021232526

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  • Options
    SecondSkrillerSecondSkriller Posts: 1,190 ★★★★★
    ZeroFrostNinja said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    It's different because you can literally freeze them in place and never let them attack. That jeopardizes any future content, in a way that is much similar to 12.0. If you can't make content that challenges anyone because a Champ exists that can cheese it indefinitely, that's dangerous.

    First of all, I thought you said you were done.

    Second, like I said Kabam could still counter Zemo in a variety of ways without nerfing the root lock. They could have champions that are root immune, or they could have champions/nodes that could reduce opponent's combat power rate while rooted, or champions/nodes that steal power when they're rooted. They've done such things with the Doom cycle. It's not even like Zemo was a broken champion like Doom, he doesn't even hit that hard. I'm not even a game designer and I could think of three ways off the top of my head to counter the Zemo lock without nerfing root, I'm sure if Kabam who are paying designers to design content could easily think of more ways to counter it if they actually want.
    Lol true, any form of power manipulation and he’s out of the picture.
  • Options
    ZeroFrostNinjaZeroFrostNinja Posts: 32 ★★
    SecondSkriller said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    SecondSkriller said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    It's different because you can literally freeze them in place and never let them attack. That jeopardizes any future content, in a way that is much similar to 12.0. If you can't make content that challenges anyone because a Champ exists that can cheese it indefinitely, that's dangerous.

    That’s just wrong, unless you Zemo is rank 5 you cannot do it indefinetly, rank 4 Zemo could do 300k hp max and don’t you dare say that the lock rotation was EASY. It wasn’t. It was stressful and the smallest mistake leads to getting hit in the face by an sp3. I practiced hours to get it down fairly consistently and it still resulted in failure many times because the AI would block the first hit instead of heavy attacking.
    STOP TALKING ABOUT CHAMPIONS YOU HAVEN’T PLAYED AND ROTATIONS YOU HAVEN’T USED!!!
    How long do you think before people catch on and duplicate it? Do you think you're the only one capable of it? Come on, you're smart. This community catches on quickly, and R5s are becoming more common. The last thing you want is a Champ that can plow through any new content, especially longer content and harder content. I appreciate that you feel upset by this, but I think you're minimizing the issue.
    @ZeroFrostNinja said it perfectly, there are many things holding him back from using this rotation, it’s in no way broken. Also, why are they nerfing his matchup with Claire Voyant? Doesn’t Doom have matchups like OG Thor and many other champs where he can just spam heavies in the corner until they’re dead? Where’s the logic there?
    I know you're passionate but it would be helpful to stay on root lock topic.

    At least nerfing the Clair Voyant matchup was done through the appropriate channels in the balance update. Champs are expected to have such changes and while I also agree that those changes don't really seem necessary on Zemo, at least they were announced in the balance update on the expected 3-month window.

    This root lock nerf on the other hand was not done in this expected window nor was it announced through the proper communication channels.
  • Options
    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,376 ★★★★★
    ZeroFrostNinja said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    It's different because you can literally freeze them in place and never let them attack. That jeopardizes any future content, in a way that is much similar to 12.0. If you can't make content that challenges anyone because a Champ exists that can cheese it indefinitely, that's dangerous.

    First of all, I thought you said you were done.

    Second, like I said Kabam could still counter Zemo in a variety of ways without nerfing the root lock. They could have champions that are root immune, or they could have champions/nodes that could reduce opponent's combat power rate while rooted, or champions/nodes that steal power when they're rooted. They've done such things with the Doom cycle. It's not even like Zemo was a broken champion like Doom, he doesn't even hit that hard. I'm not even a game designer and I could think of three ways off the top of my head to counter the Zemo lock without nerfing root, I'm sure if Kabam who are paying designers to design content could easily think of more ways to counter it if they actually want.
    You want to design all future content with Root Immunity? Then we would be back here with the same complaint.
    I'm going to be frank because I'm running out of ways to put it.
    Anything that can do what he did is OP. Too OP. Feel free to agree or disagree, but it was.
  • Options
    GlazzyBearGlazzyBear Posts: 134 ★★
    Lots of people here that dont know how to play zemo properly and cheesed tf out of him. Kraven isnt going to be affected much either considering his insanely high dps and he reduces combat power rate by up to 50%
  • Options
    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 ★★★★
    SecondSkriller said:

    ZeroFrostNinja said:

    SecondSkriller said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    SecondSkriller said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    It's different because you can literally freeze them in place and never let them attack. That jeopardizes any future content, in a way that is much similar to 12.0. If you can't make content that challenges anyone because a Champ exists that can cheese it indefinitely, that's dangerous.

    That’s just wrong, unless you Zemo is rank 5 you cannot do it indefinetly, rank 4 Zemo could do 300k hp max and don’t you dare say that the lock rotation was EASY. It wasn’t. It was stressful and the smallest mistake leads to getting hit in the face by an sp3. I practiced hours to get it down fairly consistently and it still resulted in failure many times because the AI would block the first hit instead of heavy attacking.
    STOP TALKING ABOUT CHAMPIONS YOU HAVEN’T PLAYED AND ROTATIONS YOU HAVEN’T USED!!!
    How long do you think before people catch on and duplicate it? Do you think you're the only one capable of it? Come on, you're smart. This community catches on quickly, and R5s are becoming more common. The last thing you want is a Champ that can plow through any new content, especially longer content and harder content. I appreciate that you feel upset by this, but I think you're minimizing the issue.
    @ZeroFrostNinja said it perfectly, there are many things holding him back from using this rotation, it’s in no way broken. Also, why are they nerfing his matchup with Claire Voyant? Doesn’t Doom have matchups like OG Thor and many other champs where he can just spam heavies in the corner until they’re dead? Where’s the logic there?
    I know you're passionate but it would be helpful to stay on root lock topic.

    At least nerfing the Clair Voyant matchup was done through the appropriate channels in the balance update. Champs are expected to have such changes and while I also agree that those changes don't really seem necessary on Zemo, at least they were announced in the balance update on the expected 3-month window.

    This root lock nerf on the other hand was not done in this expected window nor was it announced through the proper communication channels.
    Yea, but we’re beating a dead horse for Grounded wisdom here, I think everyone else understands at this point lol
    I actually agree with them here. The Root Lock definitely had to change. I know for sure I wouldn't have enjoyed seeing Zemo back a 12 million health pool champion against the wall for 25 minutes (exaggerating, of course) during the next Abyss type content we get. It just wouldn't be interesting. I also don't think the Doom cycle is interesting, but adding another ability just like it is definitely not the way to go. And if they did keep the Zemo Lock, I'd be a lot more worried about your chances for Zemo to show up as a 7* anytime soon.
  • Options
    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 ★★★★
    ZeroFrostNinja said:

    AngelMcNugget said:

    SecondSkriller said:

    ZeroFrostNinja said:

    SecondSkriller said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    SecondSkriller said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    It's different because you can literally freeze them in place and never let them attack. That jeopardizes any future content, in a way that is much similar to 12.0. If you can't make content that challenges anyone because a Champ exists that can cheese it indefinitely, that's dangerous.

    That’s just wrong, unless you Zemo is rank 5 you cannot do it indefinetly, rank 4 Zemo could do 300k hp max and don’t you dare say that the lock rotation was EASY. It wasn’t. It was stressful and the smallest mistake leads to getting hit in the face by an sp3. I practiced hours to get it down fairly consistently and it still resulted in failure many times because the AI would block the first hit instead of heavy attacking.
    STOP TALKING ABOUT CHAMPIONS YOU HAVEN’T PLAYED AND ROTATIONS YOU HAVEN’T USED!!!
    How long do you think before people catch on and duplicate it? Do you think you're the only one capable of it? Come on, you're smart. This community catches on quickly, and R5s are becoming more common. The last thing you want is a Champ that can plow through any new content, especially longer content and harder content. I appreciate that you feel upset by this, but I think you're minimizing the issue.
    @ZeroFrostNinja said it perfectly, there are many things holding him back from using this rotation, it’s in no way broken. Also, why are they nerfing his matchup with Claire Voyant? Doesn’t Doom have matchups like OG Thor and many other champs where he can just spam heavies in the corner until they’re dead? Where’s the logic there?
    I know you're passionate but it would be helpful to stay on root lock topic.

    At least nerfing the Clair Voyant matchup was done through the appropriate channels in the balance update. Champs are expected to have such changes and while I also agree that those changes don't really seem necessary on Zemo, at least they were announced in the balance update on the expected 3-month window.

    This root lock nerf on the other hand was not done in this expected window nor was it announced through the proper communication channels.
    Yea, but we’re beating a dead horse for Grounded wisdom here, I think everyone else understands at this point lol
    I actually agree with them here. The Root Lock definitely had to change. I know for sure I wouldn't have enjoyed seeing Zemo back a 12 million health pool champion against the wall for 25 minutes (exaggerating, of course) during the next Abyss type content we get. It just wouldn't be interesting. I also don't think the Doom cycle is interesting, but adding another ability just like it is definitely not the way to go. And if they did keep the Zemo Lock, I'd be a lot more worried about your chances for Zemo to show up as a 7* anytime soon.
    I just pointed out the Zemo lock being similar to the Doom cycle to show how there is precedent for some kind of lock rotation to exist in the game. Kabam has every right to take it away if they want, but nobody can look at the Zemo lock and say it's 100% obviously a bug when the Doom cycle exists in the game. I'm just saying people were perfectly within their rights to take up Zemo just for his root lock, and they cannot be accused of knowingly exploiting an obvious cheesy bug because the Doom Cycle that is very similar exists in the game. That cannot be grounds to deny people RDTs is all I'm saying.
    For sure. If Kabam themselves ever tried to use "well obviously it's not working as intended, it's too powerful silly" as an excuse for such a poorly communicated change like this, that definitely wouldn't go over well. I'd also add that the ability was only ever said to be working as intended. During the Kraven Beta, people were obviously skeptical, but the devs had programmed the ability with intent for it to be this way. They then told that to members of the CCP beta. It was only unintended on the side of the designers as far as we know from that last statement. Anyone doing their own research to play it safe would only be far more confused.
  • Options
    I_tell_no_tales_1I_tell_no_tales_1 Posts: 1,198 ★★★★
    edited July 2023
    SecondSkriller said:

    HungaryHippo said:

    SecondSkriller said:

    BloodyCruelty said:

    Look at karatemikes Videos. He never used zemo lock. 15 furybuffs: you first have to get that much😅😅 it doesnt matter. The only nerf is that you cant abuse him on powersnack anymore. But therefore you have a lower duration until cleanse comes back he isnt that weak still r5 champ. But its disrespectful to not communicate. @secon

    Trust me I’ve used Zemo probably 10 times more than Karatemike, no offense directed towards him, I have yet to see someone who actually performs the lock correctly the way I do in this video: https://youtu.be/WafflqagFcU
    Very nicely done. I couldn't quite figure out what the missing factor was.

    On topic. I never ranked Zemo beyond R3 because I found him too slow. The Zemo lock was the only real reason I'd do it. To take that away from the character is to nerf him by default. KT is right. They've nerfed everything that made him viable as anything more than a mildly pesky defender if you don't know what you're doing.
    Yup. The lock made him viable for a lot of cool fights where you can lock the opponent down. Having to bait specials removes the purpose of root in my opinion and he’s definetly very slow, his damage output is very bad.

    Also, the missed factor is that you can fit 8 hits intead MSD’s 7 hits in the root duration and using the valk relic allows for another hit after the striker ends, thus giving you back 100% of the power you used and allowing for the lock to last indefinetly unless the opponent blocks a hit. This ONLY WORKS at rank 5. At rank 4 you can only lock about 300k hp.
    Also you need to have very refined skills to do that
    I won't be able to do that with my Zemo
  • Options
    ZeroFrostNinjaZeroFrostNinja Posts: 32 ★★
    edited July 2023
    I_tell_no_tales_1 said:

    SecondSkriller said:

    HungaryHippo said:

    SecondSkriller said:

    BloodyCruelty said:

    Look at karatemikes Videos. He never used zemo lock. 15 furybuffs: you first have to get that much😅😅 it doesnt matter. The only nerf is that you cant abuse him on powersnack anymore. But therefore you have a lower duration until cleanse comes back he isnt that weak still r5 champ. But its disrespectful to not communicate. @secon

    Trust me I’ve used Zemo probably 10 times more than Karatemike, no offense directed towards him, I have yet to see someone who actually performs the lock correctly the way I do in this video: https://youtu.be/WafflqagFcU
    Very nicely done. I couldn't quite figure out what the missing factor was.

    On topic. I never ranked Zemo beyond R3 because I found him too slow. The Zemo lock was the only real reason I'd do it. To take that away from the character is to nerf him by default. KT is right. They've nerfed everything that made him viable as anything more than a mildly pesky defender if you don't know what you're doing.
    Yup. The lock made him viable for a lot of cool fights where you can lock the opponent down. Having to bait specials removes the purpose of root in my opinion and he’s definetly very slow, his damage output is very bad.

    Also, the missed factor is that you can fit 8 hits intead MSD’s 7 hits in the root duration and using the valk relic allows for another hit after the striker ends, thus giving you back 100% of the power you used and allowing for the lock to last indefinetly unless the opponent blocks a hit. This ONLY WORKS at rank 5. At rank 4 you can only lock about 300k hp.
    Also you need to have very refined skills to do that
    I won't be able to do that with my Zemo(6*r3 was gonna take him to r4 but ig not now)
    It is impossible to do at lower ranks because the combat power rate increase from higher ranks is necessary for Zemo to perform that lock.
  • Options
    SecondSkrillerSecondSkriller Posts: 1,190 ★★★★★
    GlazzyBear said:

    Lots of people here that dont know how to play zemo properly and cheesed tf out of him. Kraven isnt going to be affected much either considering his insanely high dps and he reduces combat power rate by up to 50%

    Kraven could lock down labyrinth rhulk and kill him in 1:30. Now it’s over 3 minutes… I think that’s quite the change… but maybe you’re the one who doesn’t know how to play Kraven hihi, to do the Kraven lock :)
  • Options
    SecondSkrillerSecondSkriller Posts: 1,190 ★★★★★
    ZeroFrostNinja said:

    I_tell_no_tales_1 said:

    SecondSkriller said:

    HungaryHippo said:

    SecondSkriller said:

    BloodyCruelty said:

    Look at karatemikes Videos. He never used zemo lock. 15 furybuffs: you first have to get that much😅😅 it doesnt matter. The only nerf is that you cant abuse him on powersnack anymore. But therefore you have a lower duration until cleanse comes back he isnt that weak still r5 champ. But its disrespectful to not communicate. @secon

    Trust me I’ve used Zemo probably 10 times more than Karatemike, no offense directed towards him, I have yet to see someone who actually performs the lock correctly the way I do in this video: https://youtu.be/WafflqagFcU
    Very nicely done. I couldn't quite figure out what the missing factor was.

    On topic. I never ranked Zemo beyond R3 because I found him too slow. The Zemo lock was the only real reason I'd do it. To take that away from the character is to nerf him by default. KT is right. They've nerfed everything that made him viable as anything more than a mildly pesky defender if you don't know what you're doing.
    Yup. The lock made him viable for a lot of cool fights where you can lock the opponent down. Having to bait specials removes the purpose of root in my opinion and he’s definetly very slow, his damage output is very bad.

    Also, the missed factor is that you can fit 8 hits intead MSD’s 7 hits in the root duration and using the valk relic allows for another hit after the striker ends, thus giving you back 100% of the power you used and allowing for the lock to last indefinetly unless the opponent blocks a hit. This ONLY WORKS at rank 5. At rank 4 you can only lock about 300k hp.
    Also you need to have very refined skills to do that
    I won't be able to do that with my Zemo(6*r3 was gonna take him to r4 but ig not now)
    It is impossible to do at lower ranks because the combat power rate increase from higher ranks is necessary for Zemo to perform that lock.
    Correct, only a r5 Zemo can lock infinitely on paper, HOWEVER if:
    1. The opponent blocks a hit naturally or with auto-block during your root
    2. You don’t use the Valkyrie striker and don’t time properly so that 6 hits fit after it ends and not 5 hits
    3. You don’t do 13 hits per root debuff
    4. Mistime your dash too early and whiff the first medium of your root
    5. Accidentally push yourself to 3 bars of power (very easy to do, since you need 2.99 to execute the combo)
    6. Any node or ability interferes with your power

    The lock is unsuccesful.
    And you need to do these perfectly every single time, otherwhise your lock will not work. You’ll never be able to kill a 12 million hp opponent with the lock, you’ll fail due to human error long before you do that.
  • Options
    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 ★★★★
    edited July 2023
    SecondSkriller said:

    ZeroFrostNinja said:

    I_tell_no_tales_1 said:

    SecondSkriller said:

    HungaryHippo said:

    SecondSkriller said:

    BloodyCruelty said:

    Look at karatemikes Videos. He never used zemo lock. 15 furybuffs: you first have to get that much😅😅 it doesnt matter. The only nerf is that you cant abuse him on powersnack anymore. But therefore you have a lower duration until cleanse comes back he isnt that weak still r5 champ. But its disrespectful to not communicate. @secon

    Trust me I’ve used Zemo probably 10 times more than Karatemike, no offense directed towards him, I have yet to see someone who actually performs the lock correctly the way I do in this video: https://youtu.be/WafflqagFcU
    Very nicely done. I couldn't quite figure out what the missing factor was.

    On topic. I never ranked Zemo beyond R3 because I found him too slow. The Zemo lock was the only real reason I'd do it. To take that away from the character is to nerf him by default. KT is right. They've nerfed everything that made him viable as anything more than a mildly pesky defender if you don't know what you're doing.
    Yup. The lock made him viable for a lot of cool fights where you can lock the opponent down. Having to bait specials removes the purpose of root in my opinion and he’s definetly very slow, his damage output is very bad.

    Also, the missed factor is that you can fit 8 hits intead MSD’s 7 hits in the root duration and using the valk relic allows for another hit after the striker ends, thus giving you back 100% of the power you used and allowing for the lock to last indefinetly unless the opponent blocks a hit. This ONLY WORKS at rank 5. At rank 4 you can only lock about 300k hp.
    Also you need to have very refined skills to do that
    I won't be able to do that with my Zemo(6*r3 was gonna take him to r4 but ig not now)
    It is impossible to do at lower ranks because the combat power rate increase from higher ranks is necessary for Zemo to perform that lock.
    Correct, only a r5 Zemo can lock infinitely on paper, HOWEVER if:
    1. The opponent blocks a hit naturally or with auto-block during your root
    2. You don’t use the Valkyrie striker and don’t time properly so that 6 hits fit after it ends and not 5 hits
    3. You don’t do 13 hits per root debuff
    4. Mistime your dash too early and whiff the first medium of your root
    5. Accidentally push yourself to 3 bars of power (very easy to do, since you need 2.99 to execute the combo)
    6. Any node or ability interferes with your power
    I think this is exactly what Kabam is trying to avoid with rotation lock abilities. Having a list of exact things you need to do to keep the enemy from doing anything is just not the way the game is designed to be played. It's so formulaic, it becomes more of a game of Pac Man than any real fighting game I've personally seen before. I'm willing to bet Kabam regrets making the Doom cycle, and I'm definitely not surprised they don't want Root Locking to become a viable option. But if they wanted it gone so bad, that should've been a dedicated Forum page first.
  • Options
    I_tell_no_tales_1I_tell_no_tales_1 Posts: 1,198 ★★★★
    SecondSkriller said:

    ZeroFrostNinja said:

    I_tell_no_tales_1 said:

    SecondSkriller said:

    HungaryHippo said:

    SecondSkriller said:

    BloodyCruelty said:

    Look at karatemikes Videos. He never used zemo lock. 15 furybuffs: you first have to get that much😅😅 it doesnt matter. The only nerf is that you cant abuse him on powersnack anymore. But therefore you have a lower duration until cleanse comes back he isnt that weak still r5 champ. But its disrespectful to not communicate. @secon

    Trust me I’ve used Zemo probably 10 times more than Karatemike, no offense directed towards him, I have yet to see someone who actually performs the lock correctly the way I do in this video: https://youtu.be/WafflqagFcU
    Very nicely done. I couldn't quite figure out what the missing factor was.

    On topic. I never ranked Zemo beyond R3 because I found him too slow. The Zemo lock was the only real reason I'd do it. To take that away from the character is to nerf him by default. KT is right. They've nerfed everything that made him viable as anything more than a mildly pesky defender if you don't know what you're doing.
    Yup. The lock made him viable for a lot of cool fights where you can lock the opponent down. Having to bait specials removes the purpose of root in my opinion and he’s definetly very slow, his damage output is very bad.

    Also, the missed factor is that you can fit 8 hits intead MSD’s 7 hits in the root duration and using the valk relic allows for another hit after the striker ends, thus giving you back 100% of the power you used and allowing for the lock to last indefinetly unless the opponent blocks a hit. This ONLY WORKS at rank 5. At rank 4 you can only lock about 300k hp.
    Also you need to have very refined skills to do that
    I won't be able to do that with my Zemo(6*r3 was gonna take him to r4 but ig not now)
    It is impossible to do at lower ranks because the combat power rate increase from higher ranks is necessary for Zemo to perform that lock.
    Correct, only a r5 Zemo can lock infinitely on paper, HOWEVER if:
    1. The opponent blocks a hit naturally or with auto-block during your root
    2. You don’t use the Valkyrie striker and don’t time properly so that 6 hits fit after it ends and not 5 hits
    3. You don’t do 13 hits per root debuff
    4. Mistime your dash too early and whiff the first medium of your root
    5. Accidentally push yourself to 3 bars of power (very easy to do, since you need 2.99 to execute the combo)
    6. Any node or ability interferes with your power

    The lock is unsuccesful.
    And you need to do these perfectly every single time, otherwhise your lock will not work. You’ll never be able to kill a 12 million hp opponent with the lock, you’ll fail due to human error long before you do that.
    Sweaty fingers = lock gone
    On booze= Lock gone
    The skill cap is too high for an average Joe like me
  • Options
    AverageDesiAverageDesi Posts: 5,260 ★★★★★
    I_tell_no_tales_1 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    That's not how the Forum works.

    Ever heard a person who only has 4* champions come and advice someone on taking champs to rank 5?
    Bit of lore: there used to be players in act 5 giving opinion on how to tune act 6
  • Options
    Maxwell24Maxwell24 Posts: 417 ★★★
    edited July 2023
    Jesus I don't know why this thread is still active, I'm gonna say this for the idiots that need to hear it, THE ZEMO LOCK WAS NEVER GONNA STAY, For the 1 millionth time it was a very overpowered ability that was and I can't stress this enough was very very very obviously NEVER GONNA STAY, If you were dumb enough to rank zemo just for that then guess what? Thats your loss and your fault for being a dumb***, it was always gonna get nerfed and it's your fault for not seeing that, hope yall are happy with your r5 zemos not getting rank down tickets 😝
  • Options
    BulmktBulmkt Posts: 1,596 ★★★★
    I’d be happy getting the sig stones I sunk into him back…
  • Options
    Manup456Manup456 Posts: 887 ★★★★
    I think you guys deserve your RDT but Doom doesn’t lock specials for the entire fight.
This discussion has been closed.