We are aware of the feelings some Summoners have toward Relics.
How so? You knew very well years even before they got announced (gears discussions), and you definitely knew the moment you announced them. They were a forced addition, and you even especifically said you were not going to force them, just for that to end up being a lie as we can see nowadays. All of this while completely ignoring anything said towards the latest stupid relic/strikes nodes addition.
They're not forced. There have been Nodes that enhance their use, but they've never been required. If you mean to say they added them anyway, no one ever said that not adding them was on the table.
Forced is gaining an advantage in pvp content. Using relics in BGs gives you an advantage over someone who doesn’t have them. Forced, maybe not, but pretty much required.
Forced is also applying a node where you can practically no power without having one.
Don’t try to argue. Forced may not be the 100% true word, but you kind of HAVE to have them and use in certain scenarios.
Are revives forced? No, but without them your pretty much screwed in certain content.
When the claim is that they're forced, that claim should be founded. No one is forcing anyone to use them. If people don't want them on principle, that's their prerogative. You can't expect them to not use them and provide advantages for using them based on that. Other people are using them.
I don't see how relics could possibly be described as optional as long as this node is placed in content. I don't have a problem with relics at all, I honestly enjoy them. But this node isn't just allowing an advantage, it's a massive 90% reduction of a base game ability unless you use a relic. "Forced" is the only way to describe it.
We've gone over this when it was a thing, use Champs that do Damage without Specials.
We all understand you work for kabam but how can you possibly stay with this “arguement?” Kabam is making nodes that make special reliant champs useless and that’s essentially forcing them on us. Most champs are way way worse without using specials and you know it.
I don't work for Kabam. There are also a whole host of Champs that operate through raw ramp-up Damage without Specials or through DoT.
We are aware of the feelings some Summoners have toward Relics.
How so? You knew very well years even before they got announced (gears discussions), and you definitely knew the moment you announced them. They were a forced addition, and you even especifically said you were not going to force them, just for that to end up being a lie as we can see nowadays. All of this while completely ignoring anything said towards the latest stupid relic/strikes nodes addition.
They're not forced. There have been Nodes that enhance their use, but they've never been required. If you mean to say they added them anyway, no one ever said that not adding them was on the table.
Whenever any conversation arises about relics, I think of the Mephisto boss in the 8.3 beta that really soured my experience with that particular piece of content, because of the reliance on the relic.
While I do not remember the node set, it definitely felt forced with that specific fight. If you would like for me to find what those nodes were, I would be willing to attempt to provide a video showcasing the reliance on the relics in that fight.
Jinx
I would have to wait and see what's actually released. Beta isn't the final product.
Yes there are some champs that do well without throwing specials. But that doesn’t mean they will be the right counter for the defender on the node. If scorpion is your best option for that fight you can’t use him because he needs to spam specials. It’s forcing people to use bad champ options and/or fight with champs in a suboptimal way, all because of a stupid relic node.
The game is comprised of Nodes in content that require options and counters. Literally nothing different.
The difference is, "optional" parts of the game don't force you to work around not using them
That's inevitable. When you have a Node that offers a benefit for something, a disadvantage is the result of not using it. Which is inevitable. If they're in the game, they're going to be used. Completely optional is having literally no benefit whatsoever.
Again, the Spiritualism and Decisive Strike nodes do not provide a benefit for using them. They provide a massive disadvantage that can only be avoided by using them. Very different things.
Actually, the Node itself is reduced Power. Full stop. The benefit added was with a Striker.
Is that not exactly what I said? The node is a massive disadvantage, the striker is how you get rid of that disadvantage. No benefit, just taking away an ability and only giving it back if you use an optional feature of the game.
What you're missing is the Node would just be a Node, and no one would say anything without the added benefit. It's the fact that Relics were given a benefit, and this hang-up about the comment they made that is being argued.
Honestly, people can't expect Kabam to include them and not provide some form of advantage for using them at the same time. Which means not using them for that advantage gives a disadvantage by default.
At this point, I'm just going to say it. They're in the game. They're not leaving. Sink or swim.
You’ve dug your heels in so far the sand must be over your head. How would you feel if the node said “90% reduced power gain unless you spend 50 units”. Would say that you were forced into spending units or would you still contest that it was a choice to not use them?
Side note. I personally don’t mind relics and use them as needed. But I can certainly see where some people feel like they are being forced to use them.
We are aware of the feelings some Summoners have toward Relics.
How so? You knew very well years even before they got announced (gears discussions), and you definitely knew the moment you announced them. They were a forced addition, and you even especifically said you were not going to force them, just for that to end up being a lie as we can see nowadays. All of this while completely ignoring anything said towards the latest stupid relic/strikes nodes addition.
They're not forced. There have been Nodes that enhance their use, but they've never been required. If you mean to say they added them anyway, no one ever said that not adding them was on the table.
Forced is gaining an advantage in pvp content. Using relics in BGs gives you an advantage over someone who doesn’t have them. Forced, maybe not, but pretty much required.
Forced is also applying a node where you can practically no power without having one.
Don’t try to argue. Forced may not be the 100% true word, but you kind of HAVE to have them and use in certain scenarios.
Are revives forced? No, but without them your pretty much screwed in certain content.
When the claim is that they're forced, that claim should be founded. No one is forcing anyone to use them. If people don't want them on principle, that's their prerogative. You can't expect them to not use them and provide advantages for using them based on that. Other people are using them.
I don't see how relics could possibly be described as optional as long as this node is placed in content. I don't have a problem with relics at all, I honestly enjoy them. But this node isn't just allowing an advantage, it's a massive 90% reduction of a base game ability unless you use a relic. "Forced" is the only way to describe it.
We've gone over this when it was a thing, use Champs that do Damage without Specials.
We all understand you work for kabam but how can you possibly stay with this “arguement?” Kabam is making nodes that make special reliant champs useless and that’s essentially forcing them on us. Most champs are way way worse without using specials and you know it.
I don't work for Kabam. There are also a whole host of Champs that operate through raw ramp-up Damage without Specials or through DoT.
We are aware of the feelings some Summoners have toward Relics.
How so? You knew very well years even before they got announced (gears discussions), and you definitely knew the moment you announced them. They were a forced addition, and you even especifically said you were not going to force them, just for that to end up being a lie as we can see nowadays. All of this while completely ignoring anything said towards the latest stupid relic/strikes nodes addition.
They're not forced. There have been Nodes that enhance their use, but they've never been required. If you mean to say they added them anyway, no one ever said that not adding them was on the table.
Whenever any conversation arises about relics, I think of the Mephisto boss in the 8.3 beta that really soured my experience with that particular piece of content, because of the reliance on the relic.
While I do not remember the node set, it definitely felt forced with that specific fight. If you would like for me to find what those nodes were, I would be willing to attempt to provide a video showcasing the reliance on the relics in that fight.
Jinx
I would have to wait and see what's actually released. Beta isn't the final product.
Yes there are some champs that do well without throwing specials. But that doesn’t mean they will be the right counter for the defender on the node. If scorpion is your best option for that fight you can’t use him because he needs to spam specials. It’s forcing people to use bad champ options and/or fight with champs in a suboptimal way, all because of a stupid relic node.
The game is comprised of Nodes in content that require options and counters. Literally nothing different.
The difference is, "optional" parts of the game don't force you to work around not using them
That's inevitable. When you have a Node that offers a benefit for something, a disadvantage is the result of not using it. Which is inevitable. If they're in the game, they're going to be used. Completely optional is having literally no benefit whatsoever.
Again, the Spiritualism and Decisive Strike nodes do not provide a benefit for using them. They provide a massive disadvantage that can only be avoided by using them. Very different things.
Actually, the Node itself is reduced Power. Full stop. The benefit added was with a Striker.
Is that not exactly what I said? The node is a massive disadvantage, the striker is how you get rid of that disadvantage. No benefit, just taking away an ability and only giving it back if you use an optional feature of the game.
What you're missing is the Node would just be a Node, and no one would say anything without the added benefit. It's the fact that Relics were given a benefit, and this hang-up about the comment they made that is being argued.
Honestly, people can't expect Kabam to include them and not provide some form of advantage for using them at the same time. Which means not using them for that advantage gives a disadvantage by default.
At this point, I'm just going to say it. They're in the game. They're not leaving. Sink or swim.
You’ve dug your heels in so far the sand must be over your head. How would you feel if the node said “90% reduced power gain unless you spend 50 units”. Would say that you were forced into spending units or would you still contest that it was a choice to not use them?
Literally nothing in the game that says that. It's the reality of it. The whole argument is exaggerated. All because it included Relics. Remove that bit, and people would be using their Roster appropriately. They add a benefit for using them, and all of a sudden it's some kind of infringement on personal rights. Next month's Incursions will have Relic benefits as well. They're part of the game. People can either use them or cross their arms, but you can't expect other people not to get benefits for using them.
We are aware of the feelings some Summoners have toward Relics.
How so? You knew very well years even before they got announced (gears discussions), and you definitely knew the moment you announced them. They were a forced addition, and you even especifically said you were not going to force them, just for that to end up being a lie as we can see nowadays. All of this while completely ignoring anything said towards the latest stupid relic/strikes nodes addition.
They're not forced. There have been Nodes that enhance their use, but they've never been required. If you mean to say they added them anyway, no one ever said that not adding them was on the table.
Forced is gaining an advantage in pvp content. Using relics in BGs gives you an advantage over someone who doesn’t have them. Forced, maybe not, but pretty much required.
Forced is also applying a node where you can practically no power without having one.
Don’t try to argue. Forced may not be the 100% true word, but you kind of HAVE to have them and use in certain scenarios.
Are revives forced? No, but without them your pretty much screwed in certain content.
When the claim is that they're forced, that claim should be founded. No one is forcing anyone to use them. If people don't want them on principle, that's their prerogative. You can't expect them to not use them and provide advantages for using them based on that. Other people are using them.
I don't see how relics could possibly be described as optional as long as this node is placed in content. I don't have a problem with relics at all, I honestly enjoy them. But this node isn't just allowing an advantage, it's a massive 90% reduction of a base game ability unless you use a relic. "Forced" is the only way to describe it.
We've gone over this when it was a thing, use Champs that do Damage without Specials.
We all understand you work for kabam but how can you possibly stay with this “arguement?” Kabam is making nodes that make special reliant champs useless and that’s essentially forcing them on us. Most champs are way way worse without using specials and you know it.
I don't work for Kabam. There are also a whole host of Champs that operate through raw ramp-up Damage without Specials or through DoT.
We are aware of the feelings some Summoners have toward Relics.
How so? You knew very well years even before they got announced (gears discussions), and you definitely knew the moment you announced them. They were a forced addition, and you even especifically said you were not going to force them, just for that to end up being a lie as we can see nowadays. All of this while completely ignoring anything said towards the latest stupid relic/strikes nodes addition.
They're not forced. There have been Nodes that enhance their use, but they've never been required. If you mean to say they added them anyway, no one ever said that not adding them was on the table.
Whenever any conversation arises about relics, I think of the Mephisto boss in the 8.3 beta that really soured my experience with that particular piece of content, because of the reliance on the relic.
While I do not remember the node set, it definitely felt forced with that specific fight. If you would like for me to find what those nodes were, I would be willing to attempt to provide a video showcasing the reliance on the relics in that fight.
Jinx
I would have to wait and see what's actually released. Beta isn't the final product.
Yes there are some champs that do well without throwing specials. But that doesn’t mean they will be the right counter for the defender on the node. If scorpion is your best option for that fight you can’t use him because he needs to spam specials. It’s forcing people to use bad champ options and/or fight with champs in a suboptimal way, all because of a stupid relic node.
The game is comprised of Nodes in content that require options and counters. Literally nothing different.
The difference is, "optional" parts of the game don't force you to work around not using them
That's inevitable. When you have a Node that offers a benefit for something, a disadvantage is the result of not using it. Which is inevitable. If they're in the game, they're going to be used. Completely optional is having literally no benefit whatsoever.
Again, the Spiritualism and Decisive Strike nodes do not provide a benefit for using them. They provide a massive disadvantage that can only be avoided by using them. Very different things.
Actually, the Node itself is reduced Power. Full stop. The benefit added was with a Striker.
Is that not exactly what I said? The node is a massive disadvantage, the striker is how you get rid of that disadvantage. No benefit, just taking away an ability and only giving it back if you use an optional feature of the game.
What you're missing is the Node would just be a Node, and no one would say anything without the added benefit. It's the fact that Relics were given a benefit, and this hang-up about the comment they made that is being argued.
Honestly, people can't expect Kabam to include them and not provide some form of advantage for using them at the same time. Which means not using them for that advantage gives a disadvantage by default.
This implies that, had relics not existed, this node would just say "Power Gain Rate is reduced by 90%" and that would be the end of it. Obviously not. That would also mean the 8.3 Mephisto boss fight was just designed to take 50% less damage, at all times, always. Obviously not.
Nobody has an issue with Relics providing an advantage, the problem comes with pushing a new feature as 100% optional and then making the experience 90% more difficult unless they just give in and use it.
We are aware of the feelings some Summoners have toward Relics.
How so? You knew very well years even before they got announced (gears discussions), and you definitely knew the moment you announced them. They were a forced addition, and you even especifically said you were not going to force them, just for that to end up being a lie as we can see nowadays. All of this while completely ignoring anything said towards the latest stupid relic/strikes nodes addition.
They're not forced. There have been Nodes that enhance their use, but they've never been required. If you mean to say they added them anyway, no one ever said that not adding them was on the table.
Forced is gaining an advantage in pvp content. Using relics in BGs gives you an advantage over someone who doesn’t have them. Forced, maybe not, but pretty much required.
Forced is also applying a node where you can practically no power without having one.
Don’t try to argue. Forced may not be the 100% true word, but you kind of HAVE to have them and use in certain scenarios.
Are revives forced? No, but without them your pretty much screwed in certain content.
When the claim is that they're forced, that claim should be founded. No one is forcing anyone to use them. If people don't want them on principle, that's their prerogative. You can't expect them to not use them and provide advantages for using them based on that. Other people are using them.
I don't see how relics could possibly be described as optional as long as this node is placed in content. I don't have a problem with relics at all, I honestly enjoy them. But this node isn't just allowing an advantage, it's a massive 90% reduction of a base game ability unless you use a relic. "Forced" is the only way to describe it.
We've gone over this when it was a thing, use Champs that do Damage without Specials.
We all understand you work for kabam but how can you possibly stay with this “arguement?” Kabam is making nodes that make special reliant champs useless and that’s essentially forcing them on us. Most champs are way way worse without using specials and you know it.
I don't work for Kabam. There are also a whole host of Champs that operate through raw ramp-up Damage without Specials or through DoT.
We are aware of the feelings some Summoners have toward Relics.
How so? You knew very well years even before they got announced (gears discussions), and you definitely knew the moment you announced them. They were a forced addition, and you even especifically said you were not going to force them, just for that to end up being a lie as we can see nowadays. All of this while completely ignoring anything said towards the latest stupid relic/strikes nodes addition.
They're not forced. There have been Nodes that enhance their use, but they've never been required. If you mean to say they added them anyway, no one ever said that not adding them was on the table.
Whenever any conversation arises about relics, I think of the Mephisto boss in the 8.3 beta that really soured my experience with that particular piece of content, because of the reliance on the relic.
While I do not remember the node set, it definitely felt forced with that specific fight. If you would like for me to find what those nodes were, I would be willing to attempt to provide a video showcasing the reliance on the relics in that fight.
Jinx
I would have to wait and see what's actually released. Beta isn't the final product.
Yes there are some champs that do well without throwing specials. But that doesn’t mean they will be the right counter for the defender on the node. If scorpion is your best option for that fight you can’t use him because he needs to spam specials. It’s forcing people to use bad champ options and/or fight with champs in a suboptimal way, all because of a stupid relic node.
The game is comprised of Nodes in content that require options and counters. Literally nothing different.
The difference is, "optional" parts of the game don't force you to work around not using them
That's inevitable. When you have a Node that offers a benefit for something, a disadvantage is the result of not using it. Which is inevitable. If they're in the game, they're going to be used. Completely optional is having literally no benefit whatsoever.
Again, the Spiritualism and Decisive Strike nodes do not provide a benefit for using them. They provide a massive disadvantage that can only be avoided by using them. Very different things.
Actually, the Node itself is reduced Power. Full stop. The benefit added was with a Striker.
For someone who touts logic, you're not listening to reason. In this instance using something isn't a benefit. It's getting back to normal. Just like using bleed or poison immune champs are need on lanes that inflict those effects. You don't have to, but you're foolish not to. In many people's minds that's being "forced" to do something in a certain way.
We are aware of the feelings some Summoners have toward Relics.
How so? You knew very well years even before they got announced (gears discussions), and you definitely knew the moment you announced them. They were a forced addition, and you even especifically said you were not going to force them, just for that to end up being a lie as we can see nowadays. All of this while completely ignoring anything said towards the latest stupid relic/strikes nodes addition.
They're not forced. There have been Nodes that enhance their use, but they've never been required. If you mean to say they added them anyway, no one ever said that not adding them was on the table.
Forced is gaining an advantage in pvp content. Using relics in BGs gives you an advantage over someone who doesn’t have them. Forced, maybe not, but pretty much required.
Forced is also applying a node where you can practically no power without having one.
Don’t try to argue. Forced may not be the 100% true word, but you kind of HAVE to have them and use in certain scenarios.
Are revives forced? No, but without them your pretty much screwed in certain content.
When the claim is that they're forced, that claim should be founded. No one is forcing anyone to use them. If people don't want them on principle, that's their prerogative. You can't expect them to not use them and provide advantages for using them based on that. Other people are using them.
I don't see how relics could possibly be described as optional as long as this node is placed in content. I don't have a problem with relics at all, I honestly enjoy them. But this node isn't just allowing an advantage, it's a massive 90% reduction of a base game ability unless you use a relic. "Forced" is the only way to describe it.
We've gone over this when it was a thing, use Champs that do Damage without Specials.
We all understand you work for kabam but how can you possibly stay with this “arguement?” Kabam is making nodes that make special reliant champs useless and that’s essentially forcing them on us. Most champs are way way worse without using specials and you know it.
I don't work for Kabam. There are also a whole host of Champs that operate through raw ramp-up Damage without Specials or through DoT.
We are aware of the feelings some Summoners have toward Relics.
How so? You knew very well years even before they got announced (gears discussions), and you definitely knew the moment you announced them. They were a forced addition, and you even especifically said you were not going to force them, just for that to end up being a lie as we can see nowadays. All of this while completely ignoring anything said towards the latest stupid relic/strikes nodes addition.
They're not forced. There have been Nodes that enhance their use, but they've never been required. If you mean to say they added them anyway, no one ever said that not adding them was on the table.
Whenever any conversation arises about relics, I think of the Mephisto boss in the 8.3 beta that really soured my experience with that particular piece of content, because of the reliance on the relic.
While I do not remember the node set, it definitely felt forced with that specific fight. If you would like for me to find what those nodes were, I would be willing to attempt to provide a video showcasing the reliance on the relics in that fight.
Jinx
I would have to wait and see what's actually released. Beta isn't the final product.
Yes there are some champs that do well without throwing specials. But that doesn’t mean they will be the right counter for the defender on the node. If scorpion is your best option for that fight you can’t use him because he needs to spam specials. It’s forcing people to use bad champ options and/or fight with champs in a suboptimal way, all because of a stupid relic node.
The game is comprised of Nodes in content that require options and counters. Literally nothing different.
The difference is, "optional" parts of the game don't force you to work around not using them
That's inevitable. When you have a Node that offers a benefit for something, a disadvantage is the result of not using it. Which is inevitable. If they're in the game, they're going to be used. Completely optional is having literally no benefit whatsoever.
Again, the Spiritualism and Decisive Strike nodes do not provide a benefit for using them. They provide a massive disadvantage that can only be avoided by using them. Very different things.
Actually, the Node itself is reduced Power. Full stop. The benefit added was with a Striker.
Is that not exactly what I said? The node is a massive disadvantage, the striker is how you get rid of that disadvantage. No benefit, just taking away an ability and only giving it back if you use an optional feature of the game.
What you're missing is the Node would just be a Node, and no one would say anything without the added benefit. It's the fact that Relics were given a benefit, and this hang-up about the comment they made that is being argued.
Honestly, people can't expect Kabam to include them and not provide some form of advantage for using them at the same time. Which means not using them for that advantage gives a disadvantage by default.
This implies that, had relics not existed, this node would just say "Power Gain Rate is reduced by 90%" and that would be the end of it. Obviously not. That would also mean the 8.3 Mephisto boss fight was just designed to take 50% less damage, at all times, always. Obviously not.
Nobody has an issue with Relics providing an advantage, the problem comes with pushing a new feature as 100% optional and then making the experience 90% more difficult unless they just give in and use it.
Optional is optional. No one said that optional had to look like minimal benefit. I think that comment has been beaten to death. If they're in the game, they're part of the game. I have little to say to those who are too stubborn to use them. I don't support argument for the sake of it.
We are aware of the feelings some Summoners have toward Relics.
How so? You knew very well years even before they got announced (gears discussions), and you definitely knew the moment you announced them. They were a forced addition, and you even especifically said you were not going to force them, just for that to end up being a lie as we can see nowadays. All of this while completely ignoring anything said towards the latest stupid relic/strikes nodes addition.
They're not forced. There have been Nodes that enhance their use, but they've never been required. If you mean to say they added them anyway, no one ever said that not adding them was on the table.
Forced is gaining an advantage in pvp content. Using relics in BGs gives you an advantage over someone who doesn’t have them. Forced, maybe not, but pretty much required.
Forced is also applying a node where you can practically no power without having one.
Don’t try to argue. Forced may not be the 100% true word, but you kind of HAVE to have them and use in certain scenarios.
Are revives forced? No, but without them your pretty much screwed in certain content.
When the claim is that they're forced, that claim should be founded. No one is forcing anyone to use them. If people don't want them on principle, that's their prerogative. You can't expect them to not use them and provide advantages for using them based on that. Other people are using them.
I don't see how relics could possibly be described as optional as long as this node is placed in content. I don't have a problem with relics at all, I honestly enjoy them. But this node isn't just allowing an advantage, it's a massive 90% reduction of a base game ability unless you use a relic. "Forced" is the only way to describe it.
We've gone over this when it was a thing, use Champs that do Damage without Specials.
We all understand you work for kabam but how can you possibly stay with this “arguement?” Kabam is making nodes that make special reliant champs useless and that’s essentially forcing them on us. Most champs are way way worse without using specials and you know it.
I don't work for Kabam. There are also a whole host of Champs that operate through raw ramp-up Damage without Specials or through DoT.
We are aware of the feelings some Summoners have toward Relics.
How so? You knew very well years even before they got announced (gears discussions), and you definitely knew the moment you announced them. They were a forced addition, and you even especifically said you were not going to force them, just for that to end up being a lie as we can see nowadays. All of this while completely ignoring anything said towards the latest stupid relic/strikes nodes addition.
They're not forced. There have been Nodes that enhance their use, but they've never been required. If you mean to say they added them anyway, no one ever said that not adding them was on the table.
Whenever any conversation arises about relics, I think of the Mephisto boss in the 8.3 beta that really soured my experience with that particular piece of content, because of the reliance on the relic.
While I do not remember the node set, it definitely felt forced with that specific fight. If you would like for me to find what those nodes were, I would be willing to attempt to provide a video showcasing the reliance on the relics in that fight.
Jinx
I would have to wait and see what's actually released. Beta isn't the final product.
Yes there are some champs that do well without throwing specials. But that doesn’t mean they will be the right counter for the defender on the node. If scorpion is your best option for that fight you can’t use him because he needs to spam specials. It’s forcing people to use bad champ options and/or fight with champs in a suboptimal way, all because of a stupid relic node.
The game is comprised of Nodes in content that require options and counters. Literally nothing different.
The difference is, "optional" parts of the game don't force you to work around not using them
That's inevitable. When you have a Node that offers a benefit for something, a disadvantage is the result of not using it. Which is inevitable. If they're in the game, they're going to be used. Completely optional is having literally no benefit whatsoever.
Again, the Spiritualism and Decisive Strike nodes do not provide a benefit for using them. They provide a massive disadvantage that can only be avoided by using them. Very different things.
Actually, the Node itself is reduced Power. Full stop. The benefit added was with a Striker.
Is that not exactly what I said? The node is a massive disadvantage, the striker is how you get rid of that disadvantage. No benefit, just taking away an ability and only giving it back if you use an optional feature of the game.
What you're missing is the Node would just be a Node, and no one would say anything without the added benefit. It's the fact that Relics were given a benefit, and this hang-up about the comment they made that is being argued.
Honestly, people can't expect Kabam to include them and not provide some form of advantage for using them at the same time. Which means not using them for that advantage gives a disadvantage by default.
At this point, I'm just going to say it. They're in the game. They're not leaving. Sink or swim.
You’ve dug your heels in so far the sand must be over your head. How would you feel if the node said “90% reduced power gain unless you spend 50 units”. Would say that you were forced into spending units or would you still contest that it was a choice to not use them?
Literally nothing in the game that says that. It's the reality of it. The whole argument is exaggerated. All because it included Relics. Remove that bit, and people would be using their Roster appropriately. They add a benefit for using them, and all of a sudden it's some kind of infringement on personal rights. Next month's Incursions will have Relic benefits as well. They're part of the game. People can either use them or cross their arms, but you can't expect other people not to get benefits for using them.
My issue is that they're not giving people a bonus for using them, but causing a disadvantage for people who don't.
I'd be more fine with it if they treated it like AQ Map 6. At first when the "new" map 6 was released, the dual class paths were penalized with less attack if they didn't use the appropriate classes. They revamped it and changed it to what it is now. A bonus to attack if you use the appropriate classes. If you use a different class it's just a normal fight without any bonus or penalty.
If they changed the current relic nodes to say "25% increased power gain for champs with strikers" and make it just an otherwise normal fight for those who don't use them, then I think it would go over much better with the "Anti-Relic Movement" while also providing a bonus to those that choose to use them.
We are aware of the feelings some Summoners have toward Relics.
How so? You knew very well years even before they got announced (gears discussions), and you definitely knew the moment you announced them. They were a forced addition, and you even especifically said you were not going to force them, just for that to end up being a lie as we can see nowadays. All of this while completely ignoring anything said towards the latest stupid relic/strikes nodes addition.
They're not forced. There have been Nodes that enhance their use, but they've never been required. If you mean to say they added them anyway, no one ever said that not adding them was on the table.
Forced is gaining an advantage in pvp content. Using relics in BGs gives you an advantage over someone who doesn’t have them. Forced, maybe not, but pretty much required.
Forced is also applying a node where you can practically no power without having one.
Don’t try to argue. Forced may not be the 100% true word, but you kind of HAVE to have them and use in certain scenarios.
Are revives forced? No, but without them your pretty much screwed in certain content.
When the claim is that they're forced, that claim should be founded. No one is forcing anyone to use them. If people don't want them on principle, that's their prerogative. You can't expect them to not use them and provide advantages for using them based on that. Other people are using them.
I don't see how relics could possibly be described as optional as long as this node is placed in content. I don't have a problem with relics at all, I honestly enjoy them. But this node isn't just allowing an advantage, it's a massive 90% reduction of a base game ability unless you use a relic. "Forced" is the only way to describe it.
We've gone over this when it was a thing, use Champs that do Damage without Specials.
We all understand you work for kabam but how can you possibly stay with this “arguement?” Kabam is making nodes that make special reliant champs useless and that’s essentially forcing them on us. Most champs are way way worse without using specials and you know it.
I don't work for Kabam. There are also a whole host of Champs that operate through raw ramp-up Damage without Specials or through DoT.
We are aware of the feelings some Summoners have toward Relics.
How so? You knew very well years even before they got announced (gears discussions), and you definitely knew the moment you announced them. They were a forced addition, and you even especifically said you were not going to force them, just for that to end up being a lie as we can see nowadays. All of this while completely ignoring anything said towards the latest stupid relic/strikes nodes addition.
They're not forced. There have been Nodes that enhance their use, but they've never been required. If you mean to say they added them anyway, no one ever said that not adding them was on the table.
Whenever any conversation arises about relics, I think of the Mephisto boss in the 8.3 beta that really soured my experience with that particular piece of content, because of the reliance on the relic.
While I do not remember the node set, it definitely felt forced with that specific fight. If you would like for me to find what those nodes were, I would be willing to attempt to provide a video showcasing the reliance on the relics in that fight.
Jinx
I would have to wait and see what's actually released. Beta isn't the final product.
Yes there are some champs that do well without throwing specials. But that doesn’t mean they will be the right counter for the defender on the node. If scorpion is your best option for that fight you can’t use him because he needs to spam specials. It’s forcing people to use bad champ options and/or fight with champs in a suboptimal way, all because of a stupid relic node.
The game is comprised of Nodes in content that require options and counters. Literally nothing different.
The difference is, "optional" parts of the game don't force you to work around not using them
That's inevitable. When you have a Node that offers a benefit for something, a disadvantage is the result of not using it. Which is inevitable. If they're in the game, they're going to be used. Completely optional is having literally no benefit whatsoever.
Again, the Spiritualism and Decisive Strike nodes do not provide a benefit for using them. They provide a massive disadvantage that can only be avoided by using them. Very different things.
Actually, the Node itself is reduced Power. Full stop. The benefit added was with a Striker.
Is that not exactly what I said? The node is a massive disadvantage, the striker is how you get rid of that disadvantage. No benefit, just taking away an ability and only giving it back if you use an optional feature of the game.
What you're missing is the Node would just be a Node, and no one would say anything without the added benefit. It's the fact that Relics were given a benefit, and this hang-up about the comment they made that is being argued.
Honestly, people can't expect Kabam to include them and not provide some form of advantage for using them at the same time. Which means not using them for that advantage gives a disadvantage by default.
This implies that, had relics not existed, this node would just say "Power Gain Rate is reduced by 90%" and that would be the end of it. Obviously not. That would also mean the 8.3 Mephisto boss fight was just designed to take 50% less damage, at all times, always. Obviously not.
Nobody has an issue with Relics providing an advantage, the problem comes with pushing a new feature as 100% optional and then making the experience 90% more difficult unless they just give in and use it.
Optional is optional. No one said that optional had to look like minimal benefit. I think that comment has been beaten to death. If they're in the game, they're part of the game. I have little to say to those who are too stubborn to use them. I don't support argument for the sake of it.
There's very little in this game that ISNT optional. With your logic, if you want to take a single r1 5* to attempt act 8 you can. It's not advisable, but you can. Have fun with that.
We are aware of the feelings some Summoners have toward Relics.
How so? You knew very well years even before they got announced (gears discussions), and you definitely knew the moment you announced them. They were a forced addition, and you even especifically said you were not going to force them, just for that to end up being a lie as we can see nowadays. All of this while completely ignoring anything said towards the latest stupid relic/strikes nodes addition.
They're not forced. There have been Nodes that enhance their use, but they've never been required. If you mean to say they added them anyway, no one ever said that not adding them was on the table.
Forced is gaining an advantage in pvp content. Using relics in BGs gives you an advantage over someone who doesn’t have them. Forced, maybe not, but pretty much required.
Forced is also applying a node where you can practically no power without having one.
Don’t try to argue. Forced may not be the 100% true word, but you kind of HAVE to have them and use in certain scenarios.
Are revives forced? No, but without them your pretty much screwed in certain content.
When the claim is that they're forced, that claim should be founded. No one is forcing anyone to use them. If people don't want them on principle, that's their prerogative. You can't expect them to not use them and provide advantages for using them based on that. Other people are using them.
I don't see how relics could possibly be described as optional as long as this node is placed in content. I don't have a problem with relics at all, I honestly enjoy them. But this node isn't just allowing an advantage, it's a massive 90% reduction of a base game ability unless you use a relic. "Forced" is the only way to describe it.
We've gone over this when it was a thing, use Champs that do Damage without Specials.
We all understand you work for kabam but how can you possibly stay with this “arguement?” Kabam is making nodes that make special reliant champs useless and that’s essentially forcing them on us. Most champs are way way worse without using specials and you know it.
I don't work for Kabam. There are also a whole host of Champs that operate through raw ramp-up Damage without Specials or through DoT.
We are aware of the feelings some Summoners have toward Relics.
How so? You knew very well years even before they got announced (gears discussions), and you definitely knew the moment you announced them. They were a forced addition, and you even especifically said you were not going to force them, just for that to end up being a lie as we can see nowadays. All of this while completely ignoring anything said towards the latest stupid relic/strikes nodes addition.
They're not forced. There have been Nodes that enhance their use, but they've never been required. If you mean to say they added them anyway, no one ever said that not adding them was on the table.
Whenever any conversation arises about relics, I think of the Mephisto boss in the 8.3 beta that really soured my experience with that particular piece of content, because of the reliance on the relic.
While I do not remember the node set, it definitely felt forced with that specific fight. If you would like for me to find what those nodes were, I would be willing to attempt to provide a video showcasing the reliance on the relics in that fight.
Jinx
I would have to wait and see what's actually released. Beta isn't the final product.
Yes there are some champs that do well without throwing specials. But that doesn’t mean they will be the right counter for the defender on the node. If scorpion is your best option for that fight you can’t use him because he needs to spam specials. It’s forcing people to use bad champ options and/or fight with champs in a suboptimal way, all because of a stupid relic node.
The game is comprised of Nodes in content that require options and counters. Literally nothing different.
The difference is, "optional" parts of the game don't force you to work around not using them
That's inevitable. When you have a Node that offers a benefit for something, a disadvantage is the result of not using it. Which is inevitable. If they're in the game, they're going to be used. Completely optional is having literally no benefit whatsoever.
Again, the Spiritualism and Decisive Strike nodes do not provide a benefit for using them. They provide a massive disadvantage that can only be avoided by using them. Very different things.
Actually, the Node itself is reduced Power. Full stop. The benefit added was with a Striker.
Is that not exactly what I said? The node is a massive disadvantage, the striker is how you get rid of that disadvantage. No benefit, just taking away an ability and only giving it back if you use an optional feature of the game.
What you're missing is the Node would just be a Node, and no one would say anything without the added benefit. It's the fact that Relics were given a benefit, and this hang-up about the comment they made that is being argued.
Honestly, people can't expect Kabam to include them and not provide some form of advantage for using them at the same time. Which means not using them for that advantage gives a disadvantage by default.
This implies that, had relics not existed, this node would just say "Power Gain Rate is reduced by 90%" and that would be the end of it. Obviously not. That would also mean the 8.3 Mephisto boss fight was just designed to take 50% less damage, at all times, always. Obviously not.
Nobody has an issue with Relics providing an advantage, the problem comes with pushing a new feature as 100% optional and then making the experience 90% more difficult unless they just give in and use it.
Optional is optional. No one said that optional had to look like minimal benefit. I think that comment has been beaten to death. If they're in the game, they're part of the game. I have little to say to those who are too stubborn to use them. I don't support argument for the sake of it.
There's very little in this game that ISNT optional. With your logic, if you want to take a single r1 5* to attempt act 8 you can. It's not advisable, but you can. Have fun with that.
If that's the case, then why the argument about being "forced"? People complained they were being forced to use them, when in actuality the argument was they were adding them to the game in spite of the complaints. Which is why I'm less inclined to entertain that perspective.
I'm not sidetracking anything. I'd actually like to hear some ideas for what people would think would improve them. I'm tired of the same "Get rid of them." argument. Months of arguing against them for no reason at all, other than the principle of them. That ship has sailed. They're here.
I'm not sidetracking anything. I'd actually like to hear some ideas for what people would think would improve them. I'm tired of the same "Get rid of them." argument. Months of arguing against them for no reason at all, other than the principle of them. That ship has sailed. They're here.
I wonder what you will say if after reevaluating, kabam comes out and says relics aren’t what they hoped they would be and gets rid of them once and for all!!
I'm not sidetracking anything. I'd actually like to hear some ideas for what people would think would improve them. I'm tired of the same "Get rid of them." argument. Months of arguing against them for no reason at all, other than the principle of them. That ship has sailed. They're here.
I wonder what you will say if after reevaluating, kabam comes out and says relics aren’t what they hoped they would be and gets rid of them once and for all!!
I'd say I disagree with it. I happen to enjoy them.
Please just remove them from the game, and compensate people who spent money or resources on them. The majority don't want relics. Spend your development time on features people want. The majority of your players DO NOT CARE ABOUT OR WANT RELICS. Get it through your heads, please. I'm so glad you're finally beginning to realize it.
Don't take only this forums as source to say the majority don't like. McoC have a huge fan base gamers outside here in many countries.
Or show the stats that tell this.
I like the relics.
Do you think they're only going by forum comments or something? It's obvious they have many more sources of data other than what we here are saying.
Yeah...I was just answering bdawg923 about this. Im the one that knows this you're saying. He no...
was against them before and still against them now. it's another expensive chase item that adds nothing to the game. i bought the reliquary odins on july 4 for prestige but i don't touch the regular deals or spin crystals. the combo extender is kinda cool but overall they add nothing to the game except for more spending. another ecosystem filled with chase items like shards, catalysts, and eventually relic awakening gems and sig stones is NOT fun.
i'm not happy if kabam puts in time and money on something that fails but relics aren't fun.
If that's the case, then why the argument about being "forced"? People complained they were being forced to use them, when in actuality the argument was they were adding them to the game in spite of the complaints. Which is why I'm less inclined to entertain that perspective.
I am fairly neutral about Relics, but I certainly agree with the 'forced to use relics' perspective. It is not seamless to use, and the times when you use them don't feel particularly rewarding.
Players are "forced to use Relics" because the nodes make it annoying to not use them (ie. a fight will take 5x longer if you don't use a relic) without actually adding any fun to it (it is a game after all).
And no, it is not the same as a Biohazard node 'forcing players to use bleed and/or poison immune'. Some differences: 1. Knowledge/strategizing. Biohazard node 'rewards' players for knowing which champions to bring on a quest to avoid the penalty. Biohazard node can also reward players for skillful play (like Ghost or Omega Red having increased damage output). In contrast, current Relic based nodes are just brain dead 'slap on a relic and not think about' type of design when all it does is limit your power gain. There is no added skill to Team composition; there is no skill to what specific relic is used, just that any relic is on. 2. Clunky UI. Biohazard node requires just team selection, and you are ready to play. In contrast, Relic based nodes require you to go to any entirely different UI/screen just to bind your relics as an extra step. Since Relics are new and players likely have more champions than relics, players have to bind and unbind relics, as an additional step in order to just play. 3. Clunky UI 2.0. Striker button placement can interfere with your Special button. When this is in conjunction with input lag, it is yet another thing that can disrupt normal playing. The current Kabam design pits "use relic so you don't have decreased power gain but your inputs may be less consistent as your thumb may hit the wrong button" vs "don't use relic so you don't have to worry about a Striker button disrupting your inputs but you'll have a lot less power so you can't even use your specials".
There are probably other things I am not thinking of, but invariably, these all make it not fun to use Relics and thus lead to the feeling of "being forced to use Relics".
Now that Relics exist, I don't think they should be eliminated. But Kabam really needs to better implement them.
This is actually bad new for me that they are holding back on relics.
there have been sooo many times that a relic has saved me in a match either by extending my combo or by actually dealing the kill shot. Also really like how versatile they are and actually make me want to explore more of the contest to try different champs and see how different they perform with them
for example Juggs with Juggs relic is just another monster than if you ran him without
Domino using Gambit relic is amazing
spiderman with spider99 relic is insane
and so on.
Think we have people with too little imagination and are reluctant to change but changes in game are not a bad thing is just another way to keep the game fresh and prevents it becoming boring
Please just remove them from the game, and compensate people who spent money or resources on them. The majority don't want relics. Spend your development time on features people want. The majority of your players DO NOT CARE ABOUT OR WANT RELICS. Get it through your heads, please. I'm so glad you're finally beginning to realize it.
Don't take only this forums as source to say the majority don't like. McoC have a huge fan base gamers outside here in many countries.
Or show the stats that tell this.
I like the relics.
Do you think they're only going by forum comments or something? It's obvious they have many more sources of data other than what we here are saying.
Data which shows people have been using them. That's why they're still in the game.
People haven’t been using them and have definitely not been buying them. That’s the whole point of this post. How can you say they are relevant when kabam themselves is saying they aren’t doing well enough to continue pursuing?
We are aware of the feelings some Summoners have toward Relics.
How so? You knew very well years even before they got announced (gears discussions), and you definitely knew the moment you announced them. They were a forced addition, and you even especifically said you were not going to force them, just for that to end up being a lie as we can see nowadays. All of this while completely ignoring anything said towards the latest stupid relic/strikes nodes addition.
They're not forced. There have been Nodes that enhance their use, but they've never been required. If you mean to say they added them anyway, no one ever said that not adding them was on the table.
Forced is gaining an advantage in pvp content. Using relics in BGs gives you an advantage over someone who doesn’t have them. Forced, maybe not, but pretty much required.
Forced is also applying a node where you can practically no power without having one.
Don’t try to argue. Forced may not be the 100% true word, but you kind of HAVE to have them and use in certain scenarios.
Are revives forced? No, but without them your pretty much screwed in certain content.
When the claim is that they're forced, that claim should be founded. No one is forcing anyone to use them. If people don't want them on principle, that's their prerogative. You can't expect them to not use them and provide advantages for using them based on that. Other people are using them.
I don't see how relics could possibly be described as optional as long as this node is placed in content. I don't have a problem with relics at all, I honestly enjoy them. But this node isn't just allowing an advantage, it's a massive 90% reduction of a base game ability unless you use a relic. "Forced" is the only way to describe it.
We've gone over this when it was a thing, use Champs that do Damage without Specials.
We all understand you work for kabam but how can you possibly stay with this “arguement?” Kabam is making nodes that make special reliant champs useless and that’s essentially forcing them on us. Most champs are way way worse without using specials and you know it.
I don't work for Kabam. There are also a whole host of Champs that operate through raw ramp-up Damage without Specials or through DoT.
We are aware of the feelings some Summoners have toward Relics.
How so? You knew very well years even before they got announced (gears discussions), and you definitely knew the moment you announced them. They were a forced addition, and you even especifically said you were not going to force them, just for that to end up being a lie as we can see nowadays. All of this while completely ignoring anything said towards the latest stupid relic/strikes nodes addition.
They're not forced. There have been Nodes that enhance their use, but they've never been required. If you mean to say they added them anyway, no one ever said that not adding them was on the table.
Whenever any conversation arises about relics, I think of the Mephisto boss in the 8.3 beta that really soured my experience with that particular piece of content, because of the reliance on the relic.
While I do not remember the node set, it definitely felt forced with that specific fight. If you would like for me to find what those nodes were, I would be willing to attempt to provide a video showcasing the reliance on the relics in that fight.
Jinx
I would have to wait and see what's actually released. Beta isn't the final product.
Yes there are some champs that do well without throwing specials. But that doesn’t mean they will be the right counter for the defender on the node. If scorpion is your best option for that fight you can’t use him because he needs to spam specials. It’s forcing people to use bad champ options and/or fight with champs in a suboptimal way, all because of a stupid relic node.
The game is comprised of Nodes in content that require options and counters. Literally nothing different.
The difference is, "optional" parts of the game don't force you to work around not using them
That's inevitable. When you have a Node that offers a benefit for something, a disadvantage is the result of not using it. Which is inevitable. If they're in the game, they're going to be used. Completely optional is having literally no benefit whatsoever.
Again, the Spiritualism and Decisive Strike nodes do not provide a benefit for using them. They provide a massive disadvantage that can only be avoided by using them. Very different things.
Actually, the Node itself is reduced Power. Full stop. The benefit added was with a Striker.
Is that not exactly what I said? The node is a massive disadvantage, the striker is how you get rid of that disadvantage. No benefit, just taking away an ability and only giving it back if you use an optional feature of the game.
What you're missing is the Node would just be a Node, and no one would say anything without the added benefit. It's the fact that Relics were given a benefit, and this hang-up about the comment they made that is being argued.
Honestly, people can't expect Kabam to include them and not provide some form of advantage for using them at the same time. Which means not using them for that advantage gives a disadvantage by default.
At this point, I'm just going to say it. They're in the game. They're not leaving. Sink or swim.
Again my friend there’s a major difference between Advantage and Disadvantage. By not allowing you to gain power like normal. This node is making not using relics a disadvantage and thus forcing them on us. They can’t be giving us an advantage if they don’t help us do anything more than usual. You use the relic to gain what should have been gained, that’s forcing something on people to make the game “equal.”
Please just remove them from the game, and compensate people who spent money or resources on them. The majority don't want relics. Spend your development time on features people want. The majority of your players DO NOT CARE ABOUT OR WANT RELICS. Get it through your heads, please. I'm so glad you're finally beginning to realize it.
Don't take only this forums as source to say the majority don't like. McoC have a huge fan base gamers outside here in many countries.
Or show the stats that tell this.
I like the relics.
Do you think they're only going by forum comments or something? It's obvious they have many more sources of data other than what we here are saying.
Data which shows people have been using them. That's why they're still in the game.
People haven’t been using them and have definitely not been buying them. That’s the whole point of this post. How can you say they are relevant when kabam themselves is saying they aren’t doing well enough to continue pursuing?
We didn't say any of that, and our data is showing that most players with access to relics do use them, and NOT in content that even incentivizes it. If they weren't, then we wouldn't be talking about a pause. I wrote this in another thread, so I'll copy and paste it here:
Relics as they exist right now occupy design space that overlaps heavily with Champions, making them pretty time consuming to make. How do you create a Relic that benefits Champions abilities without adding new ones, and also make that affect a few Champions?
We want to take time to re-evaluate the design space that relics occupy, and see where they might land that would make them less challenging to design and not cut into the space that we've carved out for Champion abilities on their own.
I'm not sidetracking anything. I'd actually like to hear some ideas for what people would think would improve them. I'm tired of the same "Get rid of them." argument. Months of arguing against them for no reason at all, other than the principle of them. That ship has sailed. They're here.
They shouldn’t have even arrived. The community shouldn’t have to fine tune a feature that kabam created. They should have scrapped the idea and used the time to fix bugs and add things the community actually asked for. We owe them and you no opinions on how something we didn’t want should be fixed. Just remove them and create mastery setups already
Please just remove them from the game, and compensate people who spent money or resources on them. The majority don't want relics. Spend your development time on features people want. The majority of your players DO NOT CARE ABOUT OR WANT RELICS. Get it through your heads, please. I'm so glad you're finally beginning to realize it.
Don't take only this forums as source to say the majority don't like. McoC have a huge fan base gamers outside here in many countries.
Or show the stats that tell this.
I like the relics.
Do you think they're only going by forum comments or something? It's obvious they have many more sources of data other than what we here are saying.
Data which shows people have been using them. That's why they're still in the game.
People haven’t been using them and have definitely not been buying them. That’s the whole point of this post. How can you say they are relevant when kabam themselves is saying they aren’t doing well enough to continue pursuing?
We didn't say any of that, and our data is showing that most players with access to relics do use them, and NOT in content that even incentivizes it. If they weren't, then we wouldn't be talking about a pause. I wrote this in another thread, so I'll copy and paste it here:
Relics as they exist right now occupy design space that overlaps heavily with Champions, making them pretty time consuming to make. How do you create a Relic that benefits Champions abilities without adding new ones, and also make that affect a few Champions?
We want to take time to re-evaluate the design space that relics occupy, and see where they might land that would make them less challenging to design and not cut into the space that we've carved out for Champion abilities on their own.
You also stated that you were going to keep enforcing content relic/striker-related in order to force player's to use them. What's up with that?
I'm not sidetracking anything. I'd actually like to hear some ideas for what people would think would improve them. I'm tired of the same "Get rid of them." argument. Months of arguing against them for no reason at all, other than the principle of them. That ship has sailed. They're here.
They shouldn’t have even arrived. The community shouldn’t have to fine tune a feature that kabam created. They should have scrapped the idea and used the time to fix bugs and add things the community actually asked for. We owe them and you no opinions on how something we didn’t want should be fixed. Just remove them and create mastery setups already
Well I'm sorry you feel that way, but that's your perception on the issue.
Comments
It's the reality of it. The whole argument is exaggerated. All because it included Relics.
Remove that bit, and people would be using their Roster appropriately. They add a benefit for using them, and all of a sudden it's some kind of infringement on personal rights.
Next month's Incursions will have Relic benefits as well. They're part of the game. People can either use them or cross their arms, but you can't expect other people not to get benefits for using them.
Nobody has an issue with Relics providing an advantage, the problem comes with pushing a new feature as 100% optional and then making the experience 90% more difficult unless they just give in and use it.
5*= 2 r4s, 5 r3s, 4 r2s, 0 r1, 3 duped sig 20.
Would atleast like to get access to more 5* relic crystals or shards. Relic economy is in pethetic state to be excited about.
I'd be more fine with it if they treated it like AQ Map 6. At first when the "new" map 6 was released, the dual class paths were penalized with less attack if they didn't use the appropriate classes. They revamped it and changed it to what it is now. A bonus to attack if you use the appropriate classes. If you use a different class it's just a normal fight without any bonus or penalty.
If they changed the current relic nodes to say "25% increased power gain for champs with strikers" and make it just an otherwise normal fight for those who don't use them, then I think it would go over much better with the "Anti-Relic Movement" while also providing a bonus to those that choose to use them.
People complained they were being forced to use them, when in actuality the argument was they were adding them to the game in spite of the complaints.
Which is why I'm less inclined to entertain that perspective.
Relics should become a relic of the past.
That ship has sailed. They're here.
Community: THANK GOD
He no...
i'm not happy if kabam puts in time and money on something that fails but relics aren't fun.
Players are "forced to use Relics" because the nodes make it annoying to not use them (ie. a fight will take 5x longer if you don't use a relic) without actually adding any fun to it (it is a game after all).
And no, it is not the same as a Biohazard node 'forcing players to use bleed and/or poison immune'.
Some differences:
1. Knowledge/strategizing. Biohazard node 'rewards' players for knowing which champions to bring on a quest to avoid the penalty. Biohazard node can also reward players for skillful play (like Ghost or Omega Red having increased damage output). In contrast, current Relic based nodes are just brain dead 'slap on a relic and not think about' type of design when all it does is limit your power gain. There is no added skill to Team composition; there is no skill to what specific relic is used, just that any relic is on.
2. Clunky UI. Biohazard node requires just team selection, and you are ready to play. In contrast, Relic based nodes require you to go to any entirely different UI/screen just to bind your relics as an extra step. Since Relics are new and players likely have more champions than relics, players have to bind and unbind relics, as an additional step in order to just play.
3. Clunky UI 2.0. Striker button placement can interfere with your Special button. When this is in conjunction with input lag, it is yet another thing that can disrupt normal playing. The current Kabam design pits "use relic so you don't have decreased power gain but your inputs may be less consistent as your thumb may hit the wrong button" vs "don't use relic so you don't have to worry about a Striker button disrupting your inputs but you'll have a lot less power so you can't even use your specials".
There are probably other things I am not thinking of, but invariably, these all make it not fun to use Relics and thus lead to the feeling of "being forced to use Relics".
Now that Relics exist, I don't think they should be eliminated. But Kabam really needs to better implement them.
This is actually bad new for me that they are holding back on relics.
there have been sooo many times that a relic has saved me in a match either by extending my combo or by actually dealing the kill shot. Also really like how versatile they are and actually make me want to explore more of the contest to try different champs and see how different they perform with them
for example Juggs with Juggs relic is just another monster than if you ran him without
Domino using Gambit relic is amazing
spiderman with spider99 relic is insane
and so on.
Think we have people with too little imagination and are reluctant to change but changes in game are not a bad thing is just another way to keep the game fresh and prevents it becoming boring
Shouldn't that be a permanent ban?
Relics as they exist right now occupy design space that overlaps heavily with Champions, making them pretty time consuming to make. How do you create a Relic that benefits Champions abilities without adding new ones, and also make that affect a few Champions?
We want to take time to re-evaluate the design space that relics occupy, and see where they might land that would make them less challenging to design and not cut into the space that we've carved out for Champion abilities on their own.