Btw im not saying valiant shouldnt get additional perks. Wheter its luck, time or skill that you put into to get it, its still a game that needs stuff like that to progress. I just dont like when people talk about exploring necropolis as some kind of insane skill dependant content
Technically, it is very skill dependent. You can't just mindlessly use Kate and expect to win. You also can't just mindlessly use shuri and win.
Also there's a whole plethora of options that people have used besides Kate, Ægon, and shuri. If you have a 7* gamora, then you can do a ton of the fights with her. Many other 7*s can be used as well along with 6*s. The biggest hurdle to necro exploration is your own time and patience.
If your definition of skill dependant is not doing stuff mindlessly then even arena is a content that probably takes skill. What people did with kate and shuri was just doing their usual play pattern again and again and just use way less revives than any other option. Yes of course there is options. My point wasnt that there werent any. My point was that either you have the options and you do it with less revives (options that barely has anything to do with skill they just answer rpg problems) or you use suboptimal optins and spend way more revives. And yes its about time and patience. You have to grind arena. Even aegon like too around 50 rev for me to complete the easietlst path and best i saw was 30 revives that someone did. 30 revs is like 1200 units.(absolute best case scenario). And we know the average is way more than that.
Btw im not saying valiant shouldnt get additional perks. Wheter its luck, time or skill that you put into to get it, its still a game that needs stuff like that to progress. I just dont like when people talk about exploring necropolis as some kind of insane skill dependant content
This is a reasonable position. It *can* be an expression of skill. For example, I believe Swedeah posted a video soloing Necro Red Goblin with a 4* Rogue. That’s absolutely skill. YouTubers have posted videos of reviveless path completions, I don’t think anybody would say that doesn’t show an insane amount of skill.
But I do agree that powering through with Aegon and a checkbook/infinite revives is not a display of skill so much as it is stamina. There is skill required for some matchups, like the Elsa Bloodstone one (that was I think one of my favorite fights), but overall yeah, doing a run in like 60+ revives is not a thing to brag about.
Of course that can be expression of skill but not everyone let even 25% of playerbase is like swedeah and people that became valiant did very skillfull stuff to explore it. Cuz why would they? Why would they go in with rogue when they can go with a way better option that doesnt really take skill or time.
Btw im not saying valiant shouldnt get additional perks. Wheter its luck, time or skill that you put into to get it, its still a game that needs stuff like that to progress. I just dont like when people talk about exploring necropolis as some kind of insane skill dependant content
mad cuz ur bad? 😿
I mean yeah. Im mad cuz im so bad i couldnt pull shuri or any other best option to massivly reduce my item cost in a run. And have to grind hours and hours of arena
Every game I've ever played has had "that's not really hard" discussions. I consider them a bunch of drivel myself. If a player set themselves the goal of completing or exploring Necropolis, and they did whatever they had to do to achieve that goal, I don't particularly care how they did it. The game is the game, the rules are the rules, and that's that. If a player is Valiant, they earned it, whether they farmed a billion revives or whaled out while zonked out on turkey. They did what was required to achieve Valiant, and they are now entitled to the rewards associated with Valiant.
Every progression game is fueled in part by pursuit goals. Those goals have to follow a progression of difficulty. Games judge difficulty by seeing how many players actually achieve those goals. If it is a lot, it is easy. If it is only a few, it is hard. Period. Valiant is the top progression tier in the game, and it is less than three months old. It should be difficult to get. Few players have it at the moment, so it is difficult to get. Period. Belittling how those who got it got it serves no useful purpose to a game that builds itself upon a foundation of valuing those who chase those goals by the very means they did so.
I'm only making counter arguments. I'm not belittling anyone for how they got the title, but if they try to belittle others for not achieving it and saying it's supposed to be earned, yet they revive farmed then it's contradictory.
No, its not. Belittling someone for not having a particular title is wrong, but saying you have to earn it is not belittling. Those are two completely different things. I'm not defending the former, but the latter is just reality.
Sure, you can say it was easier back when you could more easily farm revives. But that's just the veterans' argument in reverse: it will never be harder than it was when we did it, so who cares what you do now. I became Uncollected when it was as hard as it will ever be. I did Act 6 before it was nerfed, without the champion options that exist now, without the rank up tiers that exist now. That's something to be proud of, but the players today that clear Act 6 earn the same clear I did. The people attempting Necropolis clears have no leg to stand on if they complain it is harder now. It will only get easier, and they have the benefit of way more information about how to do it than the people who did it right out of the gate. That's just how the game works, and how it always will work.
This game constantly changes and evolves. You play the game as it exists when you play it. You don't ask for the game as it was. Unless you want all your progress reviewed in the same light.
I’m not against valiant progression rewards in side quests or any other form. I think it’s great and should have been implemented on release. Releasing a title with nothing more than daily crystal upgrades is shallow.
I think kabam could have informed the general player base better in game and gave a more informed consensus on when 8.4 would release so people had a full picture on whether to explore necropolis or wait.
Yes I understand that’s how the game is. I just think it’s funny when people who are 100% committed to the game come and talk down on others in forum who have actual lives outside of the game. I’m sure if the amount of paragon players in the game knew and had a better understanding, a lot more paragon players would be valiant now by fully exploring necropolis.
Kabam did clearly mention the 2 paths to valiant and one of them was to do path of necro and explore act 8 in spring. Also this talking down to others in the forum is a two way street. Just as you are trying to insinuate that those who are not valiant are the ones who have actual lives outside the game and not those who are committed to the game. And those people who have lives outside game should not be overly bothered by the inability to do a couple of objectives meant for valiant players.
Not sure what this thread is really about - did people not expect those with a new title to get some perks from the next special events? It has always been this way. It used to be thronebreaker who got the extra title-based objectives for such events, then paragon, now it's valiant.
There is no point to progression titles w/o perks or extra rewards.
Every game I've ever played has had "that's not really hard" discussions. I consider them a bunch of drivel myself. If a player set themselves the goal of completing or exploring Necropolis, and they did whatever they had to do to achieve that goal, I don't particularly care how they did it. The game is the game, the rules are the rules, and that's that. If a player is Valiant, they earned it, whether they farmed a billion revives or whaled out while zonked out on turkey. They did what was required to achieve Valiant, and they are now entitled to the rewards associated with Valiant.
Every progression game is fueled in part by pursuit goals. Those goals have to follow a progression of difficulty. Games judge difficulty by seeing how many players actually achieve those goals. If it is a lot, it is easy. If it is only a few, it is hard. Period. Valiant is the top progression tier in the game, and it is less than three months old. It should be difficult to get. Few players have it at the moment, so it is difficult to get. Period. Belittling how those who got it got it serves no useful purpose to a game that builds itself upon a foundation of valuing those who chase those goals by the very means they did so.
I'm only making counter arguments. I'm not belittling anyone for how they got the title, but if they try to belittle others for not achieving it and saying it's supposed to be earned, yet they revive farmed then it's contradictory.
No, its not. Belittling someone for not having a particular title is wrong, but saying you have to earn it is not belittling. Those are two completely different things. I'm not defending the former, but the latter is just reality.
Sure, you can say it was easier back when you could more easily farm revives. But that's just the veterans' argument in reverse: it will never be harder than it was when we did it, so who cares what you do now. I became Uncollected when it was as hard as it will ever be. I did Act 6 before it was nerfed, without the champion options that exist now, without the rank up tiers that exist now. That's something to be proud of, but the players today that clear Act 6 earn the same clear I did. The people attempting Necropolis clears have no leg to stand on if they complain it is harder now. It will only get easier, and they have the benefit of way more information about how to do it than the people who did it right out of the gate. That's just how the game works, and how it always will work.
This game constantly changes and evolves. You play the game as it exists when you play it. You don't ask for the game as it was. Unless you want all your progress reviewed in the same light.
I’m not against valiant progression rewards in side quests or any other form. I think it’s great and should have been implemented on release. Releasing a title with nothing more than daily crystal upgrades is shallow.
I think kabam could have informed the general player base better in game and gave a more informed consensus on when 8.4 would release so people had a full picture on whether to explore necropolis or wait.
I don’t know what you mean by could have informed the player base in-game, but it sounds like you wanted them to offer strategic advice, which I don’t think belongs in in-game notices or documentation. That’s a matter for community discussion.
In-game notices and documentation should tell the players how the game is, or very specifically what is explicitly announced to be coming next. It should not be telling players things like hey, if you want to become Valiant then you should go look for the revive farms we’re going to be nerfing because they were never supposed to offer as much revives as they are, and then accumulate as much as possible so that you can expend them as quickly as possible in the Necrpolis to get the rank ups necessary to reach Valiant. That’s way beyond what they are obligated to or should be telling players to do. When they are engaging players in discussion or chatter, on the forums or in live streams, that is something they can do and it makes sense to do.
The information and discussion about it was out there for people to find if they wanted to. There’s no obligation to go find it, but players who want to optimize their playing experience should expect that a lot of the information to do so, especially the meta-information that comes from players strategizing amongst themselves, will not be in the actual game. Especially in massively multiplayer games.
Yeah, they could have done more in theory, but I don’t think they should have in this case, because that’s not what they should be packing into in-game notices. In-game notices should be short and factual. Strategic discussion should be done in community settings.
Everyone deserves a well-documented game. Everyone deserves to know what content is in the game, and what the requirements are to progress in the game. But no one deserves hand-holding. If you want to know what the best way to become Valiant is, or Paragon, or how to complete Necropolis, you shouldn’t expect that to fall into your lap. You have to go find it, you have to participate in the places where that is discussed, you have to be engaged. I don’t think that’s asking too much. In fact, I think it is asking too much for someone to sit back and expect that to be delivered to them.
Yes I understand that’s how the game is. I just think it’s funny when people who are 100% committed to the game come and talk down on others in forum who have actual lives outside of the game. I’m sure if the amount of paragon players in the game knew and had a better understanding, a lot more paragon players would be valiant now by fully exploring necropolis.
I think it is funny when people mention “actual lives” as if only some people have them.
If this was a forum about chess, or basketball, or automotive repair, and someone said “it is too hard to become a grandmaster, they should lower the requirements” or “it is too difficult to master all the skills for basketball they should remove the rule requiring dribbling for me” or even “my clients demand I know all this stuff about cars, it is all too much” they’d be laughed off those boards as well, probably much more harshly than here on these forums. And if anyone said it was funny that people were so high and mighty about knowing how to play chess, or basketball, or how to repair automobiles when most people with “actual lives” struggle with the time required to do those things, the response would probably be something along the lines of “yeah, but this is a [chess|basketball|auto repair] forum.”
This is an MCOC forum. It is about the Marvel Contest of Champions game. The presumption is that if you’re here discussing this game, you understand that getting better at the game or accomplishing things in the game will take time and resources,. You might not want to spend that time and those resources, but people with actual lives spend the time and resources to become doctors, to play soccer, to travel to the Grand Canyon, and to become Valiant in the video game.
It is not “talking down” to people to say “if you want Valiant rewards, spend the time and resources to become Valiant.” It *is* talking down to people to say “easy for you to say, I have an actual life.” I’m Valiant, and I have an actual life. I did my first run of Necropolis over a four day period, spending just a couple hours a day on it and doing the rest of my actual life things all around it. There were players who were much more busy than I was who did an even better job than me weaving their Necropolis runs in and around their busy schedule of job, spouse, kids, sleep. Whenever someone complains about players having “actual lives” it doesn’t really bother me on a personal level, but I think it is an insult to players who probably are much more time constrained than the people who make that complaint and yet figure out how to get things done.
Now that I think about it, I don’t really find that as funny as I first thought.
I've been valiant for some time 2 weeks after necro I believe and the benefits haven't been amazing whatsoever we need more rewards, even the daily crystals result in mainly 10% of either t3a or t6b not great. I think in 6 months or less the daily crystal will be outdated. Just my opinion.
I thought this thread was over but since it’s back at the top, two thoughts for the discussion.
1.They announced new incentives for the title shortly after they removed a path to the title. That is mildly frustrating. Not the end of the world, but there is something that doesn’t feel great about it. I think there was a better way to handle it.
2. I did not expect more endgame content before 8.4. I think they could have communicated at some point in this rollout that there would be more endgame content before 8.4. That may have factored in to people’s decision making about pushing for Valiant via Necropolis exploration or waiting for 8.4.
I thought this thread was over but since it’s back at the top, two thoughts for the discussion.
1.They announced new incentives for the title shortly after they removed a path to the title. That is mildly frustrating. Not the end of the world, but there is something that doesn’t feel great about it. I think there was a better way to handle it.
2. I did not expect more endgame content before 8.4. I think they could have communicated at some point in this rollout that there would be more endgame content before 8.4. That may have factored in to people’s decision making about pushing for Valiant via Necropolis exploration or waiting for 8.4.
To your second point, they did. Multiple times and through multiple avenues. It was said on livestreams and it was said in the Valiant announcement (somebody posted a screenshot of it in this thread already). And based on recent years, Kabam has pretty consistently had overarching content drops between story drops, so this shouldn’t be a surprise to anybody.
I thought this thread was over but since it’s back at the top, two thoughts for the discussion.
1.They announced new incentives for the title shortly after they removed a path to the title. That is mildly frustrating. Not the end of the world, but there is something that doesn’t feel great about it. I think there was a better way to handle it.
2. I did not expect more endgame content before 8.4. I think they could have communicated at some point in this rollout that there would be more endgame content before 8.4. That may have factored in to people’s decision making about pushing for Valiant via Necropolis exploration or waiting for 8.4.
Can't believe you're doubling down in this incorrectness lol
Comments
Yes of course there is options. My point wasnt that there werent any. My point was that either you have the options and you do it with less revives (options that barely has anything to do with skill they just answer rpg problems) or you use suboptimal optins and spend way more revives. And yes its about time and patience. You have to grind arena. Even aegon like too around 50 rev for me to complete the easietlst path and best i saw was 30 revives that someone did. 30 revs is like 1200 units.(absolute best case scenario). And we know the average is way more than that.
1. Complete & explore Necro
2. Complete Necro + Cyber weekend
3. Complete Necro + explore act 8
4. Cyber weekend + explore act 8
Not sure what this thread is really about - did people not expect those with a new title to get some perks from the next special events? It has always been this way. It used to be thronebreaker who got the extra title-based objectives for such events, then paragon, now it's valiant.
There is no point to progression titles w/o perks or extra rewards.
In-game notices and documentation should tell the players how the game is, or very specifically what is explicitly announced to be coming next. It should not be telling players things like hey, if you want to become Valiant then you should go look for the revive farms we’re going to be nerfing because they were never supposed to offer as much revives as they are, and then accumulate as much as possible so that you can expend them as quickly as possible in the Necrpolis to get the rank ups necessary to reach Valiant. That’s way beyond what they are obligated to or should be telling players to do. When they are engaging players in discussion or chatter, on the forums or in live streams, that is something they can do and it makes sense to do.
The information and discussion about it was out there for people to find if they wanted to. There’s no obligation to go find it, but players who want to optimize their playing experience should expect that a lot of the information to do so, especially the meta-information that comes from players strategizing amongst themselves, will not be in the actual game. Especially in massively multiplayer games.
Yeah, they could have done more in theory, but I don’t think they should have in this case, because that’s not what they should be packing into in-game notices. In-game notices should be short and factual. Strategic discussion should be done in community settings.
Everyone deserves a well-documented game. Everyone deserves to know what content is in the game, and what the requirements are to progress in the game. But no one deserves hand-holding. If you want to know what the best way to become Valiant is, or Paragon, or how to complete Necropolis, you shouldn’t expect that to fall into your lap. You have to go find it, you have to participate in the places where that is discussed, you have to be engaged. I don’t think that’s asking too much. In fact, I think it is asking too much for someone to sit back and expect that to be delivered to them.
I think it is funny when people mention “actual lives” as if only some people have them.If this was a forum about chess, or basketball, or automotive repair, and someone said “it is too hard to become a grandmaster, they should lower the requirements” or “it is too difficult to master all the skills for basketball they should remove the rule requiring dribbling for me” or even “my clients demand I know all this stuff about cars, it is all too much” they’d be laughed off those boards as well, probably much more harshly than here on these forums. And if anyone said it was funny that people were so high and mighty about knowing how to play chess, or basketball, or how to repair automobiles when most people with “actual lives” struggle with the time required to do those things, the response would probably be something along the lines of “yeah, but this is a [chess|basketball|auto repair] forum.”
This is an MCOC forum. It is about the Marvel Contest of Champions game. The presumption is that if you’re here discussing this game, you understand that getting better at the game or accomplishing things in the game will take time and resources,. You might not want to spend that time and those resources, but people with actual lives spend the time and resources to become doctors, to play soccer, to travel to the Grand Canyon, and to become Valiant in the video game.
It is not “talking down” to people to say “if you want Valiant rewards, spend the time and resources to become Valiant.” It *is* talking down to people to say “easy for you to say, I have an actual life.” I’m Valiant, and I have an actual life. I did my first run of Necropolis over a four day period, spending just a couple hours a day on it and doing the rest of my actual life things all around it. There were players who were much more busy than I was who did an even better job than me weaving their Necropolis runs in and around their busy schedule of job, spouse, kids, sleep. Whenever someone complains about players having “actual lives” it doesn’t really bother me on a personal level, but I think it is an insult to players who probably are much more time constrained than the people who make that complaint and yet figure out how to get things done.
Now that I think about it, I don’t really find that as funny as I first thought.
1.They announced new incentives for the title shortly after they removed a path to the title. That is mildly frustrating. Not the end of the world, but there is something that doesn’t feel great about it. I think there was a better way to handle it.
2. I did not expect more endgame content before 8.4. I think they could have communicated at some point in this rollout that there would be more endgame content before 8.4. That may have factored in to people’s decision making about pushing for Valiant via Necropolis exploration or waiting for 8.4.