The “champion rebalance program” needs to go

Revan0607Revan0607 Member Posts: 53 ★
in Suggestions and Requests
Think back to 2019-2021 era, we used to get 1-2 buffs basically every month. And these were all complete reworks (both magnetos, old man Logan, colossus, gamora got 3 buffs etc). Now a days we’re only getting slight tune up buffs maybe every 2-3 months, some on characters who honestly didn’t need buffs (shocker, mantis, Luke cages second buff). Sure those characters are better now than they were technically, but I’d rather Kabam put time and recourses into the 2015-2016 champions who desperately need them Captain America (who I think needs the iron man treatment), Symbiote Spider-Man, Thor, moon knight, black panther CW, list goes on. I think the worst part in all of this is the “champion rebalancing program” where kabam releases a new champion, just to buff them after a few months cause they suck. Maybe just do more testing before release so you put them out and they don’t need a rebalance? Cause again, with these “buffs” to champions like shocker or gladiator or sandman, that time could’ve easily went to those older champions. I would like Kabam to at least acknowledge why the buff program went from 1-2 complete reworks every month, to a small tuneup of an old champion every 3-4 months. I’m just getting the vibe that they just don’t care at this point. Lmk what you think below

Comments

  • captain_rogerscaptain_rogers Member Posts: 10,460 ★★★★★
    Nah I'm fine with these small tuneups to red skull and luke cage kind of buffs, instead of a complete overhaul like magneto.

    Sure, they can do it one or two a year, but the should give small tuneups to old champs every month.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,429 ★★★★★
    It takes 6 months to design a champion for release. How much testing would you like them to do when there's a handful of designers who are all responsible for creating new champions in rotation.

    Champions subject to the rebalance program are evaluated over the course of 6 months so it's not just a few months. Very few of those new champs were rebalanced out of the many that were available. Most are in their original state.

    But I ask again, how much testing by non-players is sufficient enough for you? How would they test things like war? Battlegrounds? You're asking a handful of designers to make those changes when in the hands of the community, it's a much wider skill set. There are players in the community that are able to do things with champions that designers didn't always intend.

    They've told us why they aren't buffing older champs like they used to many times in the past already. It's not coming back.
  • WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Member Posts: 1,780 ★★★★
    We literally never got constant reworks like you're describing. We had 1 every 3 months alongside a few tune ups and little tweaks, and nearly all of them were bugged for months because of the lack of testing.

    We now get either 1 or 2 buffs a month that are all pretty significant and aren't completely forgotten about in a couple weeks. Not to mention the extras like nightcrawler and iron man.

    You don't get to say they need to buff 2015 champs when they're literally doing that pretty consistently
  • Revan0607Revan0607 Member Posts: 53 ★
    WednesdayLength said:

    We literally never got constant reworks like you're describing. We had 1 every 3 months alongside a few tune ups and little tweaks, and nearly all of them were bugged for months because of the lack of testing.

    We now get either 1 or 2 buffs a month that are all pretty significant and aren't completely forgotten about in a couple weeks. Not to mention the extras like nightcrawler and iron man.

    You don't get to say they need to buff 2015 champs when they're literally doing that pretty consistently

    You clearly haven’t played the game back then
  • CaptainaidenCaptainaiden Member Posts: 1,094 ★★★★
    No
  • RicoShayRicoShay Member Posts: 241 ★★
    They've already put in the work to design meaningfully different champs so why would they go again and redesign those champs even if they're weak? Champion tuning seems like the most realistic way to take old champs with good design who just need numbers adjustments to become relevant again. Even new champs that haven't landed well on release (mantis for example) are perfectly designed just need a little more stat adjusting not complete reworks. Not every champ needs to be OP.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,906 Guardian
    Revan0607 said:

    Think back to 2019-2021 era, we used to get 1-2 buffs basically every month. And these were all complete reworks (both magnetos, old man Logan, colossus, gamora got 3 buffs etc). Now a days we’re only getting slight tune up buffs maybe every 2-3 months, some on characters who honestly didn’t need buffs (shocker, mantis, Luke cages second buff). Sure those characters are better now than they were technically, but I’d rather Kabam put time and recourses into the 2015-2016 champions who desperately need them Captain America (who I think needs the iron man treatment), Symbiote Spider-Man, Thor, moon knight, black panther CW, list goes on. I think the worst part in all of this is the “champion rebalancing program” where kabam releases a new champion, just to buff them after a few months cause they suck. Maybe just do more testing before release so you put them out and they don’t need a rebalance? Cause again, with these “buffs” to champions like shocker or gladiator or sandman, that time could’ve easily went to those older champions. I would like Kabam to at least acknowledge why the buff program went from 1-2 complete reworks every month, to a small tuneup of an old champion every 3-4 months. I’m just getting the vibe that they just don’t care at this point. Lmk what you think below

    Kabam explicitly stated in one of their livestreams that the cadence of the old buff program was unsustainable, and they deliberately switched to the current rebalance program in part to make the work more sustainable and in part to address things that the previous buff program was inadequate to address - like specifically, you know, rebalances, which were a problem for them in the past.

    When you say you get the "vibe" that they just don't care, what gives you that vibe? The fact that they are no longer doing what you want, and doing something else instead? Is that how you judge whether people care about anything? If they are doing what you want to do, they care, and if they don't, then they just don't care?
  • CaptainaidenCaptainaiden Member Posts: 1,094 ★★★★
    NOOOO, i want my Gladiator to be good so i need REBALANCE!!!
  • WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Member Posts: 1,780 ★★★★
    Revan0607 said:

    WednesdayLength said:

    We literally never got constant reworks like you're describing. We had 1 every 3 months alongside a few tune ups and little tweaks, and nearly all of them were bugged for months because of the lack of testing.

    We now get either 1 or 2 buffs a month that are all pretty significant and aren't completely forgotten about in a couple weeks. Not to mention the extras like nightcrawler and iron man.

    You don't get to say they need to buff 2015 champs when they're literally doing that pretty consistently

    You clearly haven’t played the game back then
    I've been playing since launch, please explain how you think I've not been playing the game that long lmao. You really wanna go back to the days of nova level buffs?
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,429 ★★★★★
    WednesdayLength said:

    Revan0607 said:

    WednesdayLength said:

    We literally never got constant reworks like you're describing. We had 1 every 3 months alongside a few tune ups and little tweaks, and nearly all of them were bugged for months because of the lack of testing.

    We now get either 1 or 2 buffs a month that are all pretty significant and aren't completely forgotten about in a couple weeks. Not to mention the extras like nightcrawler and iron man.

    You don't get to say they need to buff 2015 champs when they're literally doing that pretty consistently

    You clearly haven’t played the game back then
    I've been playing since launch, please explain how you think I've not been playing the game that long lmao. You really wanna go back to the days of nova level buffs?
    Those are the same days of Magneto level buffs. You're wrong that we never got consistent buffs. When the buff program started we were getting 2 buffs consistently.
  • WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Member Posts: 1,780 ★★★★
    Demonzfyre said:

    WednesdayLength said:

    Revan0607 said:

    WednesdayLength said:

    We literally never got constant reworks like you're describing. We had 1 every 3 months alongside a few tune ups and little tweaks, and nearly all of them were bugged for months because of the lack of testing.

    We now get either 1 or 2 buffs a month that are all pretty significant and aren't completely forgotten about in a couple weeks. Not to mention the extras like nightcrawler and iron man.

    You don't get to say they need to buff 2015 champs when they're literally doing that pretty consistently

    You clearly haven’t played the game back then
    I've been playing since launch, please explain how you think I've not been playing the game that long lmao. You really wanna go back to the days of nova level buffs?
    Those are the same days of Magneto level buffs. You're wrong that we never got consistent buffs. When the buff program started we were getting 2 buffs consistently.
    I said that we never got reworks as consistently as op is suggesting, not buffs of any kind. I know we got magneto, then it was 3 months until ddhk, then 3 months until vp and so on. Beyond that it was mostly buffs that are similar to what we're getting now, save for the fact that the new buffs aren't bugged for months and are generally more significant especially with the new champs.

    I'm not saying we're getting buffs more consistently, I'm saying that now we're getting polished buffs more consistently with the occasional complete rework from top to bottom which we only actually got with ddhk within that last buff cycle since everyone else kept the same animations.

    I'm merely saying that it's Rose tinted glasses to act like the old programme was so much better when it was completely unsustainable and resulted in s lot of buffs that weren't really that solid until they had their bugs fixed in a lot of cases. The current cycle is much better imo regardless of quantity
  • the_eradicatorthe_eradicator Member Posts: 400 ★★★
    captain_rogers said:

    Nah I'm fine with these small tuneups to red skull and luke cage kind of buffs, instead of a complete overhaul like magneto.

    Sure, they can do it one or two a year, but the should give small tuneups to old champs every month.

    Whats the point of the small tuneup if the small tuneup sucks? Quality over quantity
  • ShadowstrikeShadowstrike Member Posts: 3,111 ★★★★★
    WednesdayLength said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    WednesdayLength said:

    Revan0607 said:

    WednesdayLength said:

    We literally never got constant reworks like you're describing. We had 1 every 3 months alongside a few tune ups and little tweaks, and nearly all of them were bugged for months because of the lack of testing.

    We now get either 1 or 2 buffs a month that are all pretty significant and aren't completely forgotten about in a couple of weeks. Not to mention the extras like nightcrawler and Iron Man.

    You don't get to say they need to buff 2015 champs when they're literally doing that pretty consistently

    You clearly haven’t played the game back then< "blockquote>

    I've been playing since launch. Please explain how you think I've not been playing the game that long lmao. Do you really wanna go back to the days of nova level buffs?
    Those are the same days of Magneto level buffs. You're wrong that we never got consistent buffs. When the buff program started, we were getting 2 buffs consistently.
    I said that we never got reworks as consistently as op is suggesting, not buffs of any kind. I know we got magneto, then it was 3 months until ddhk, then 3 months until vp and so on. Beyond that, it was mostly buffs that are similar to what we're getting now, save for the fact that the new buffs aren't bugged for months and are generally more significant, especially with the new champs

    I'm not saying we're getting buffs more consistently, I'm saying that now we're getting polished buffs more consistently with the occasional complete rework from top to bottom which we only actually got with ddhk within that last buff cycle since everyone else kept the same animations.

    I'm merely saying that it's Rose tinted glasses to act like the old programme was so much better when it was completely unsustainable and resulted in s lot of buffs that weren't really that solid until they had their bugs fixed in a lot of cases. The current cycle is much better, imo regardless of quantity
    Those buffs might have been "more polished," but they were also fewer and farther in between, which is why they had more time to be polished.

    And don't forget, they specifically stated that both versions of Magneto "were an exception, not the rule" when it came to how Buffs were supposed to go.

    They have since stated that "no one is ever going to receive a Magneto level buff going forward."

  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,429 ★★★★★
    WednesdayLength said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    WednesdayLength said:

    Revan0607 said:

    WednesdayLength said:

    We literally never got constant reworks like you're describing. We had 1 every 3 months alongside a few tune ups and little tweaks, and nearly all of them were bugged for months because of the lack of testing.

    We now get either 1 or 2 buffs a month that are all pretty significant and aren't completely forgotten about in a couple weeks. Not to mention the extras like nightcrawler and iron man.

    You don't get to say they need to buff 2015 champs when they're literally doing that pretty consistently

    You clearly haven’t played the game back then
    I've been playing since launch, please explain how you think I've not been playing the game that long lmao. You really wanna go back to the days of nova level buffs?
    Those are the same days of Magneto level buffs. You're wrong that we never got consistent buffs. When the buff program started we were getting 2 buffs consistently.
    I said that we never got reworks as consistently as op is suggesting, not buffs of any kind. I know we got magneto, then it was 3 months until ddhk, then 3 months until vp and so on. Beyond that it was mostly buffs that are similar to what we're getting now, save for the fact that the new buffs aren't bugged for months and are generally more significant especially with the new champs.

    I'm not saying we're getting buffs more consistently, I'm saying that now we're getting polished buffs more consistently with the occasional complete rework from top to bottom which we only actually got with ddhk within that last buff cycle since everyone else kept the same animations.

    I'm merely saying that it's Rose tinted glasses to act like the old programme was so much better when it was completely unsustainable and resulted in s lot of buffs that weren't really that solid until they had their bugs fixed in a lot of cases. The current cycle is much better imo regardless of quantity
    When the program started, they had different levels of buffs for champions. Reworks weren't guaranteed every time there was a buff announced. The type of buffs were based on how much work they had and time. Which is what killed the program in the first place. We were getting consistent buffs every month but which kind was never a guarantee. Just based off who they picked.

    The buffs started to decline in effectiveness which led to the rebalance program and the end of the buff program. They couldn't sustain 2 reworks every month, that would be crazy.

    But to answer your question, technically neither of you are right. They never committed to full reworks every month and the reason why they were 3 months is because a rework is basically the same time as designing a new champion.
  • WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Member Posts: 1,780 ★★★★
    Demonzfyre said:

    WednesdayLength said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    WednesdayLength said:

    Revan0607 said:

    WednesdayLength said:

    We literally never got constant reworks like you're describing. We had 1 every 3 months alongside a few tune ups and little tweaks, and nearly all of them were bugged for months because of the lack of testing.

    We now get either 1 or 2 buffs a month that are all pretty significant and aren't completely forgotten about in a couple weeks. Not to mention the extras like nightcrawler and iron man.

    You don't get to say they need to buff 2015 champs when they're literally doing that pretty consistently

    You clearly haven’t played the game back then
    I've been playing since launch, please explain how you think I've not been playing the game that long lmao. You really wanna go back to the days of nova level buffs?
    Those are the same days of Magneto level buffs. You're wrong that we never got consistent buffs. When the buff program started we were getting 2 buffs consistently.
    I said that we never got reworks as consistently as op is suggesting, not buffs of any kind. I know we got magneto, then it was 3 months until ddhk, then 3 months until vp and so on. Beyond that it was mostly buffs that are similar to what we're getting now, save for the fact that the new buffs aren't bugged for months and are generally more significant especially with the new champs.

    I'm not saying we're getting buffs more consistently, I'm saying that now we're getting polished buffs more consistently with the occasional complete rework from top to bottom which we only actually got with ddhk within that last buff cycle since everyone else kept the same animations.

    I'm merely saying that it's Rose tinted glasses to act like the old programme was so much better when it was completely unsustainable and resulted in s lot of buffs that weren't really that solid until they had their bugs fixed in a lot of cases. The current cycle is much better imo regardless of quantity
    When the program started, they had different levels of buffs for champions. Reworks weren't guaranteed every time there was a buff announced. The type of buffs were based on how much work they had and time. Which is what killed the program in the first place. We were getting consistent buffs every month but which kind was never a guarantee. Just based off who they picked.

    The buffs started to decline in effectiveness which led to the rebalance program and the end of the buff program. They couldn't sustain 2 reworks every month, that would be crazy.

    But to answer your question, technically neither of you are right. They never committed to full reworks every month and the reason why they were 3 months is because a rework is basically the same time as designing a new champion.
    You're also completely wrong. They were consistent in that it was a rework, magneto, then a rebalance, falcon and gambit, then a tube up, punisher 2099. Op is suggesting that we got magneto level reworks more frequently than we do now which is like, semi true, but we also had way more buffs that were bugged or just not that impactful.

    The amount of buffs declined because it was completely unsustainable to keep the level of buffs that they were doing, and now it's been much more consistent and polished. The only buff that I would consider not enough in the current programme was psycho man and that's only because he could have done with a way of cycling out of his sadness stance more consistently but everything else has been a significant improvement
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 8,451 ★★★★★
    edited March 26
    It's all because of Hercules. Months after he was released, because he was so powerful, they had to create the rebalancing program to make sure champs aren't broken or too underwhelming.
    If you don't like this, blame Hercules
  • TerraTerra Member Posts: 8,532 ★★★★★
    EdisonLaw said:

    It's all because of Hercules. Months after he was released, because he was so powerful, they had to create the rebalancing program to make sure champs aren't broken or too underwhelming.
    If you don't like this, blame Hercules

    I believe Magneto holds the crown for this too
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,906 Guardian
    EdisonLaw said:

    It's all because of Hercules. Months after he was released, because he was so powerful, they had to create the rebalancing program to make sure champs aren't broken or too underwhelming.
    If you don't like this, blame Hercules

    Not true. The origin of the champion rebalance program as we know it today dates back in 2019. It was first announced on the forums back in August 2019 here: https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/153017/more-consistent-balance-changes-coming-your-way

    And the first set of champions reviewed by the balance program were Annihilus, Human Torch, Ebony Maw, Cull Obsidian, and Namor, announced back in January of 2020 and released into the game in February 2020: https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/179310/champion-rebalance-information-february-2020

    But the whole idea of launch champ, review data on champ, and rebalance up or down a few months later, has its origins in the champion rebalance program two years before Hercules was released.
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 8,451 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    EdisonLaw said:

    It's all because of Hercules. Months after he was released, because he was so powerful, they had to create the rebalancing program to make sure champs aren't broken or too underwhelming.
    If you don't like this, blame Hercules

    Not true. The origin of the champion rebalance program as we know it today dates back in 2019. It was first announced on the forums back in August 2019 here: https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/153017/more-consistent-balance-changes-coming-your-way

    And the first set of champions reviewed by the balance program were Annihilus, Human Torch, Ebony Maw, Cull Obsidian, and Namor, announced back in January of 2020 and released into the game in February 2020: https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/179310/champion-rebalance-information-february-2020

    But the whole idea of launch champ, review data on champ, and rebalance up or down a few months later, has its origins in the champion rebalance program two years before Hercules was released.
    Then why wasn’t Hercules rebalanced?
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