Mastery Update Incoming!!!

BigBlueOx · March 26

I have a clarifying question for the team… when you say each summoner gets 3 loadouts, can you confirm that each loadout will consist of an offensive, defensive, and proficiencies page? Or is each page its own loadout?

startropics · March 26

Wicket329 said:
I’m theory crafting some efficient ways to handle the three loadouts, and here’s what I got:

For your primary, day to day loadout, save it with everything you would normally use EXCEPT willpower. Just leave those points unspent and save the loadout. I’d say leave dexterity of too, but that means missing an entire tree and that defeats the purpose.

After saving, then put your willpower points in. That way when you have to fight a beefy Warlock or some other fight where you need to turn willpower off, you just swap to the loadout and don’t need to redo the entire defense tree. And when you’re done with that fight, you only need to spend the handful of units for willpower and not the ones you’d need for every other defensive mastery.

from a cost perspective, isn't it cheaper taking off WP normally and putting it back on?

for me re-doing it normally saves 4 units and get to have WP and coag for daily questing.

startropics · March 26

^but that's just defense and probably utility

for attack this change is great

SummonerNR · March 26

ShashankGupta said:
@Kabam Miike pls clarify this like for example In my loadout 3 I run 2 points in deep wounds and just after sometime I want to add 3 more points in the deep wounds mastery will the units cost of 8 and 10 or whatever will it still be there or it is free?

I am asking about this

If you are modifying a Loadout, and you are increasing the Level of a particular mastery that costs the incremental Gold/Units to reach higher, YES, you will should be charged those incremental amounts.

Ironman3000 · March 26

Wicket329 said:
I’m theory crafting some efficient ways to handle the three loadouts, and here’s what I got:

For your primary, day to day loadout, save it with everything you would normally use EXCEPT willpower. Just leave those points unspent and save the loadout. I’d say leave dexterity of too, but that means missing an entire tree and that defeats the purpose.

After saving, then put your willpower points in. That way when you have to fight a beefy Warlock or some other fight where you need to turn willpower off, you just swap to the loadout and don’t need to redo the entire defense tree. And when you’re done with that fight, you only need to spend the handful of units for willpower and not the ones you’d need for every other defensive mastery.

I'm guessing the best bet would be:

Full Loadout for AWD - Max MD, Limber, Stand Your Ground, etc.
~90% Loadout with Recoils - Probably leave the Despair tree open and everything after Willpower.
~80% Loadout without Recoils - Most flexibility here. Leave off Willpower and Dex as well as the Despair tree.

Havanaknight · March 26

This goes live April 1… clearly an April fools prank by kabam.

In all seriousness, solid change. I would’ve been happy paying 1-2k units for a slot with free swaps. But 35 units per swap is worth making a switch when going between WoW and other quests vs arena grinding.

DNA3000 · March 26

AgenteMagnus said:

MrSakuragi said:

AgenteMagnus said:
I was so excited when I read that Mastery Loadouts were coming to the game, until the end of the post. Don't get me wrong, it's a very good news for sure, but having a cost for switching them is ridiculous. Unlocking masteries is very costly as is, and the big complaint on switching them was exactly the unit cost. Please consider removing the cost, or at least making that we can mark a loadout for arena, just as it appears that we can mark one for AW defense.
I wish there were no loadout cost as well. It is, however, a significant decrease to the 100+ (150?) units it was costing me to rebuild them each time I went into necropolis.
It is an improvement for sure. But as always, Kabam put a big turd on top of the cake, then wonders why people hate on them so much. Guess this will never change.

That's one way to look at it. However, if it isn't enough for you to have an improvement in the game if it doesn't happen exactly the way you think it should, I suspect you go through life eating a lot of those turd sandwiches.

Personally, I didn't expect mastery switching to be free, nor do I think it is even desirable for it to be completely free. For it to be a) more convenient, b) cost less, and c) have a way to eliminate the *need* to switch for one of the most common use cases is... hmm, actually this is something I suggested years ago. Right down to the AWD specific settings. I called them "mastery profiles" back then.

In effect, the slots in BG are mastery profiles: mastery configurations that are specific to BG. Using those, we don't have to switch masteries at all just to use a different one for BG. We set it once, and then BG automatically uses that one. We will now also be able to set an AWD one, and then AWD will automatically use that one. In both cases, there's a cost to actually set up the mastery configuration, but from that point on there's no cost to "switch" to it: the game simply uses that set up in that mode regardless of your mastery set up elsewhere.

For all other game modes, we will have a shared set of profiles that we can switch between for less cost than it would normally take to completely redo our masteries. If we primarily use just two different set ups - outside of AWD or Battlegrounds - our switching costs are now a flat amount, and switching is now far more convenient.

Hate Kabam all you want. If it was up to me, we'd have had this capability long ago. But you wouldn't have gotten free unlimited mastery switching from me either. Nor would you likely have ever convinced me it was a good idea.

Cryptoman78 · March 26

So if I want to grind arena for an hour or so but then I want to do a quest that requires non suicide friendly champs and then jump back in area would have to pay 35 units twice or if I did AW and a few fights benefit with them on and a few don’t. Will we have to pay 35 units every time ?

If that’s the case they should add a timer that is good for 4-6 hrs where we can swap back and forth for only 35 units.

DNA3000 · March 26

Toproller89 said:
I would prefer for arena to have a separate mastery system similar to the BG loadout, where you can have your main masteries set to story or whatever, and when you play in that game mode it applies the suicides just in that mode.

Means you set and forget and don't have to make any changes or 35 unit swaps.

In my original mastery profile suggestion/idea, I included arena as one of two modes with mode specific profiles, AWD being the other one. Battlegrounds did not exist at the time I originally suggested it, but I immediately began advocating for Battlegrounds to have its own mastery profiles before it launched.

I suspect they are rolling this out initially with AWD as the most obvious mode-specific use case, but I would bet better than even money that arena will get its own checkbox eventually. Eventually might be a year or two away, though.

Kabam Crashed · March 26

I'm in meetings all day so don't have time to answer every question, but the way this works is basically every loadout works like the current mastery system. So if you want to for instance turn off willpower, do a fight, then turn it back on, and that would cost less than 70 Units to swap between two different profiles, you can do that exactly how you would now. In fact, if you have no interest in this system at all, you can just leave your loadout set to one loadout and manage your masteries exactly how you currently do.

Rasilover · March 26

About freaking time!

Vegeta9001 · March 26

It's late here, so I'm probably half cooked mentally, but this means I can lock in an AWD mastery loadout permanently and play with a seperate one, but switch to other ones for 35 units a pop, but the AWD one stays unless I specifically change it?

jcphillips7 · March 26

Vegeta9001 said:
It's late here, so I'm probably half cooked mentally, but this means I can lock in an AWD mastery loadout permanently and play with a seperate one, but switch to other ones for 35 units a pop, but the AWD one stays unless I specifically change it?

From what I gather, correct. Similar to when you lock in a BGs mastery loadout and it remains the same until you click that pop-up box confirmation again that you wish to change it.

Vegeta9001 · March 26

jcphillips7 said:

Vegeta9001 said:
It's late here, so I'm probably half cooked mentally, but this means I can lock in an AWD mastery loadout permanently and play with a seperate one, but switch to other ones for 35 units a pop, but the AWD one stays unless I specifically change it?
From what I gather, correct. Similar to when you lock in a BGs mastery loadout and it remains the same until you click that pop-up box confirmation again that you wish to change it.

Ragnarok13 · March 26

This is the greatest April Fool’s Day prank they have ever come up with

HungaryHippo · March 26

Far too expensive. 35 units each time?

BigBlueOx · March 26

Kabam Crashed said:
I'm in meetings all day so don't have time to answer every question, but the way this works is basically every loadout works like the current mastery system. So if you want to for instance turn off willpower, do a fight, then turn it back on, and that would cost less than 70 Units to swap between two different profiles, you can do that exactly how you would now. In fact, if you have no interest in this system at all, you can just leave your loadout set to one loadout and manage your masteries exactly how you currently do.

I’d love to read an explanation of switching willpower and mystic dispersion would cost in the old system and what it would cost in the new loadouts system

AgenteMagnus · March 26

DNA3000 said:

AgenteMagnus said:

MrSakuragi said:

AgenteMagnus said:
I was so excited when I read that Mastery Loadouts were coming to the game, until the end of the post. Don't get me wrong, it's a very good news for sure, but having a cost for switching them is ridiculous. Unlocking masteries is very costly as is, and the big complaint on switching them was exactly the unit cost. Please consider removing the cost, or at least making that we can mark a loadout for arena, just as it appears that we can mark one for AW defense.
I wish there were no loadout cost as well. It is, however, a significant decrease to the 100+ (150?) units it was costing me to rebuild them each time I went into necropolis.
It is an improvement for sure. But as always, Kabam put a big turd on top of the cake, then wonders why people hate on them so much. Guess this will never change.
That's one way to look at it. However, if it isn't enough for you to have an improvement in the game if it doesn't happen exactly the way you think it should, I suspect you go through life eating a lot of those turd sandwiches.

Personally, I didn't expect mastery switching to be free, nor do I think it is even desirable for it to be completely free. For it to be a) more convenient, b) cost less, and c) have a way to eliminate the *need* to switch for one of the most common use cases is... hmm, actually this is something I suggested years ago. Right down to the AWD specific settings. I called them "mastery profiles" back then.

In effect, the slots in BG are mastery profiles: mastery configurations that are specific to BG. Using those, we don't have to switch masteries at all just to use a different one for BG. We set it once, and then BG automatically uses that one. We will now also be able to set an AWD one, and then AWD will automatically use that one. In both cases, there's a cost to actually set up the mastery configuration, but from that point on there's no cost to "switch" to it: the game simply uses that set up in that mode regardless of your mastery set up elsewhere.

For all other game modes, we will have a shared set of profiles that we can switch between for less cost than it would normally take to completely redo our masteries. If we primarily use just two different set ups - outside of AWD or Battlegrounds - our switching costs are now a flat amount, and switching is now far more convenient.

Hate Kabam all you want. If it was up to me, we'd have had this capability long ago. But you wouldn't have gotten free unlimited mastery switching from me either. Nor would you likely have ever convinced me it was a good idea.

1) The cost for swapping masteries was the biggest reason why people asked for a loadout in the first place. Reducing the cost instead of removing it is only half of a good job.

2) Arena is the biggest reason why many players, myself included, uses the recoil masteries. Having to pay 35 units every time I go to arena, then another 35 when going back to questing, AQ, or AW attack is ridiculous.

3) I never said things have to be the way I wanted, let alone demanded it. The only thing I did was sharing an opinion on something that I saw happening many times before, but of course a white knight would get triggered by the fact that someone shared an opinion they don't' like.

Josh2507 · March 26

Kabam Crashed said:
So if you want to for instance turn off willpower, do a fight, then turn it back on, and that would cost less than 70 Units to swap between two different profiles, you can do that exactly how you would now.

Wait I’m confused

So you pay to switch to slot 2, but then switching back to slot 1 doesn’t have a charge?

How would this process cost less than 70 units?

startropics · March 26

Ragnarok13 said:
This is the greatest April Fool’s Day prank they have ever come up with

Polygon · March 26

@Kabam Crashed @Kabam Miike

Very good job on the update, only one concern I have regarding the 35 units. Its definitely cheaper than before but when you consider the fact that when you swap to a temporary loadout for a given quest and then switch back, it’s going to be 70 units each time.

Say, I’m about to the CCP avengers challenge, I dont need MD, i may want to temporarily switch it out for Collar Tech. But after that, MD is what I would normally use.

Alternatively if i want to do the Tigra Challenge , I may want to have max Deep Wounds etc.

The possibilities are numerous, but the point I’m trying to make is it would make much more sense for us to be able to disable points in certain masteries to be able to spec points in other ones. That way we don’t have to pay to spec the whole tree or pay 70 units via the loadout switches

Let me know your thoughts

startropics · March 26

35 units per switch is very reasonable. right now if i want to turn off full suicides and put them back on it costs 58 units and that doesn't include any points in despair or deep wounds.

startropics · March 26

hmm..maybe i'm not seeing it correctly...

Kabam Crashed · March 26

Polygon said:
@Kabam Crashed @Kabam Miike

Very good job on the update, only one concern I have regarding the 35 units. Its definitely cheaper than before but when you consider the fact that when you swap to a temporary loadout for a given quest and then switch back, it’s going to be 70 units each time.

Say, I’m about to the CCP avengers challenge, I dont need MD, i may want to temporarily switch it out for Collar Tech. But after that, MD is what I would normally use.

Alternatively if i want to do the Tigra Challenge , I may want to have max Deep Wounds etc.

The possibilities are numerous, but the point I’m trying to make is it would make much more sense for us to be able to disable points in certain masteries to be able to spec points in other ones. That way we don’t have to pay to spec the whole tree or pay 70 units via the loadout switches

Let me know your thoughts

As I said above, you can still choose to manage your active mastery loadout exactly how you do now. So if there is a mastery swap that would be cheaper using the current system, you can absolutely just do what you are currently doing now. The system is designed as a Pareto improvement, nobody is made worse off and many players are made better off.

ReyAlemán · March 26

Exactly, you're free to use the new system or keep playing as you normally do.

Wicket329 · March 26

Kabam Crashed said:

Polygon said:
@Kabam Crashed @Kabam Miike

Very good job on the update, only one concern I have regarding the 35 units. Its definitely cheaper than before but when you consider the fact that when you swap to a temporary loadout for a given quest and then switch back, it’s going to be 70 units each time.

Say, I’m about to the CCP avengers challenge, I dont need MD, i may want to temporarily switch it out for Collar Tech. But after that, MD is what I would normally use.

Alternatively if i want to do the Tigra Challenge , I may want to have max Deep Wounds etc.

The possibilities are numerous, but the point I’m trying to make is it would make much more sense for us to be able to disable points in certain masteries to be able to spec points in other ones. That way we don’t have to pay to spec the whole tree or pay 70 units via the loadout switches

Let me know your thoughts
As I said above, you can still choose to manage your active mastery loadout exactly how you do now. So if there is a mastery swap that would be cheaper using the current system, you can absolutely just do what you are currently doing now. The system is designed as a Pareto improvement, nobody is made worse off and many players are made better off.

Is there any discussion for the future about the adding the ability to either remove single points at a time or to allow adding multiple points at a time? The update is phenomenal and I’m over the moon with it, just curious if this is planned as a final state or if there are further updates being considered (trying so hard to phrase this in a way that doesn’t tie you down to your answer)

startropics · March 26

sorry if this was already answered, but does an AW profile count as just defense or both offense and defense like BGs?

and if i turn off full suicides just for placement, does it see that as a game wide change or just for AW? guessing it's game wide.

ideally i want to create a custom defensive AW setup, pay the 35 units once, then run it permanently while having whatever other setting outside of it.

gohard123 · March 26

Kabam Crashed said:

Polygon said:
@Kabam Crashed @Kabam Miike

Very good job on the update, only one concern I have regarding the 35 units. Its definitely cheaper than before but when you consider the fact that when you swap to a temporary loadout for a given quest and then switch back, it’s going to be 70 units each time.

Say, I’m about to the CCP avengers challenge, I dont need MD, i may want to temporarily switch it out for Collar Tech. But after that, MD is what I would normally use.

Alternatively if i want to do the Tigra Challenge , I may want to have max Deep Wounds etc.

The possibilities are numerous, but the point I’m trying to make is it would make much more sense for us to be able to disable points in certain masteries to be able to spec points in other ones. That way we don’t have to pay to spec the whole tree or pay 70 units via the loadout switches

Let me know your thoughts
As I said above, you can still choose to manage your active mastery loadout exactly how you do now. So if there is a mastery swap that would be cheaper using the current system, you can absolutely just do what you are currently doing now. The system is designed as a Pareto improvement, nobody is made worse off and many players are made better off.

Personally, I'd like to thank yall for this change. It makes the barrier to change masteries much smaller especially with AW inclusion

DNA3000 · March 26

AgenteMagnus said:

DNA3000 said:

AgenteMagnus said:

MrSakuragi said:

AgenteMagnus said:
I was so excited when I read that Mastery Loadouts were coming to the game, until the end of the post. Don't get me wrong, it's a very good news for sure, but having a cost for switching them is ridiculous. Unlocking masteries is very costly as is, and the big complaint on switching them was exactly the unit cost. Please consider removing the cost, or at least making that we can mark a loadout for arena, just as it appears that we can mark one for AW defense.
I wish there were no loadout cost as well. It is, however, a significant decrease to the 100+ (150?) units it was costing me to rebuild them each time I went into necropolis.
It is an improvement for sure. But as always, Kabam put a big turd on top of the cake, then wonders why people hate on them so much. Guess this will never change.
That's one way to look at it. However, if it isn't enough for you to have an improvement in the game if it doesn't happen exactly the way you think it should, I suspect you go through life eating a lot of those turd sandwiches.

Personally, I didn't expect mastery switching to be free, nor do I think it is even desirable for it to be completely free. For it to be a) more convenient, b) cost less, and c) have a way to eliminate the *need* to switch for one of the most common use cases is... hmm, actually this is something I suggested years ago. Right down to the AWD specific settings. I called them "mastery profiles" back then.

In effect, the slots in BG are mastery profiles: mastery configurations that are specific to BG. Using those, we don't have to switch masteries at all just to use a different one for BG. We set it once, and then BG automatically uses that one. We will now also be able to set an AWD one, and then AWD will automatically use that one. In both cases, there's a cost to actually set up the mastery configuration, but from that point on there's no cost to "switch" to it: the game simply uses that set up in that mode regardless of your mastery set up elsewhere.

For all other game modes, we will have a shared set of profiles that we can switch between for less cost than it would normally take to completely redo our masteries. If we primarily use just two different set ups - outside of AWD or Battlegrounds - our switching costs are now a flat amount, and switching is now far more convenient.

Hate Kabam all you want. If it was up to me, we'd have had this capability long ago. But you wouldn't have gotten free unlimited mastery switching from me either. Nor would you likely have ever convinced me it was a good idea.
1) The cost for swapping masteries was the biggest reason why people asked for a loadout in the first place. Reducing the cost instead of removing it is only half of a good job.

2) Arena is the biggest reason why many players, myself included, uses the recoil masteries. Having to pay 35 units every time I go to arena, then another 35 when going back to questing, AQ, or AW attack is ridiculous.

3) I never said things have to be the way I wanted, let alone demanded it. The only thing I did was sharing an opinion on something that I saw happening many times before, but of course a white knight would get triggered by the fact that someone shared an opinion they don't' like.

1. Reducing the costs is an improvement, but also a compromise. The idea that the correct thing to do is to eliminate the costs and Kabam simply did only half the job is projecting your idea of how things should happen over and above good game design. That would specifically be "things have to be the way you want" because there's no objective reason for them to be otherwise.

2. I myself suggested mastery profiles over six years ago (and many times since then), and arena and AWD were the specific use cases I called out at the time. Characterizing the current system as a "turd" and implying that this sort of implementation is "why people hate Kabam" is another example of "my way or else" that you claim you never said. And also privileged foolishness. It would be far easier to advocate for the arena to get its own profile option now than it has ever been in the past, and the game and the way it is developed and managed change in incremental ways. It is lauding when things actually improve in both reasonable and positive directions.

3. Of course I'm a "white knight." Because in spite of claiming you never said things have to be the way you wanted, not only did you assert that several times, anyone who disagrees with you or points out your hypocrisy must be a white knight. It would be inconceivable to you for anyone who disagrees with you or perceives a change Kabam makes positively could have a legitimate point of view. No, there has to be a tainted driver of that, because not only must everything be your way, everyone must think your way also.

It can't possibly be that I might perceive this change as a positive change because I've been asking for it for years, over and above many objections by Kabam as to its plausibility or viability. I was here before Kabam was here.

Polygon · March 26

Kabam Crashed said:

Polygon said:
@Kabam Crashed @Kabam Miike

Very good job on the update, only one concern I have regarding the 35 units. Its definitely cheaper than before but when you consider the fact that when you swap to a temporary loadout for a given quest and then switch back, it’s going to be 70 units each time.

Say, I’m about to the CCP avengers challenge, I dont need MD, i may want to temporarily switch it out for Collar Tech. But after that, MD is what I would normally use.

Alternatively if i want to do the Tigra Challenge , I may want to have max Deep Wounds etc.

The possibilities are numerous, but the point I’m trying to make is it would make much more sense for us to be able to disable points in certain masteries to be able to spec points in other ones. That way we don’t have to pay to spec the whole tree or pay 70 units via the loadout switches

Let me know your thoughts
As I said above, you can still choose to manage your active mastery loadout exactly how you do now. So if there is a mastery swap that would be cheaper using the current system, you can absolutely just do what you are currently doing now. The system is designed as a Pareto improvement, nobody is made worse off and many players are made better off.

I understand this but my post was more so referring to removing single points at a time (also brought up by @Wicket329 i believe) as opposed to the current system because that would actually cost even more units than from the new system, as if you want to switch points out from say deep wounds to inequity you would have to reset the whole offense tree.

Mastery Update Incoming!!!

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