Crossbones vs Mantis

PolygonPolygon Member Posts: 4,505 ★★★★★
Who would you rate as the faster/more versatile BGs attacker, and who do you think benefits from the r3 more for strictly attack?

Crossbones vs Mantis 156 votes

Crossbones
48%
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Mantis
51%
PantherusNZRaganatorSpity68KeltanSecondSkrillerTerrayossNescioPIKESTAINNojokejaymThatGuyYouSaw235tnair2015GarloTheRealmKeepert123459Wu_Bangerz23Trafalgarwar96Pureskilzz000Ayden_noah1svilarium 80 votes
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Comments

  • Chief_WiggumChief_Wiggum Member Posts: 105
    edited July 12
    One depends on RNG for Furys, other depends on AI a bit.. or where nodes that debuffs doesn't stick due to conflictor or other debuff affecting situations. I have mantis at R3 and xbones at R2. Both does the job as Photon killer but depends on the situation. Current BG GC meta favours xbones, same as War meta. Mantis sort of depends on predicability, xbones does better than mantis when things are chaotic and can't have predicatable fights with ideal matchups.
  • Rohit_316Rohit_316 Member Posts: 3,415 ★★★★★
    Does Mantis needs dupe ?? I have a 7 star but i am confused whether to rank 2 her or rank 5 Bullseye.
  • jcphillips7jcphillips7 Member Posts: 1,425 ★★★★
    edited July 12
    Mantis
    While I'd rather have an awakened Xbones as a r3, Mantis puts in phenomenal work as one of my r2s right now.

    Speaking of her, how do most of you play Mantis? I try to do the light ending combo first and then keep shallow intercepting a few times (this can sometimes backfire and I get popped in the face) to build the Emotion Charges, then MLLLM to get them defensive, hit into block as much as possible. Then heavy charge into sp2.

    IS there an "easier" method to doing her rotation, or is this pretty much what most of you all do as well?
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  • Chief_WiggumChief_Wiggum Member Posts: 105
    Rohit_316 said:

    Does Mantis needs dupe ?? I have a 7 star but i am confused whether to rank 2 her or rank 5 Bullseye.

    For damage .. no. her dupe is for debuff control via her tranquility strength when facing non science classes and able to pause tranquility.

  • Rohit_316Rohit_316 Member Posts: 3,415 ★★★★★

    Rohit_316 said:

    Does Mantis needs dupe ?? I have a 7 star but i am confused whether to rank 2 her or rank 5 Bullseye.

    For damage .. no. her dupe is for debuff control via her tranquility strength when facing non science classes and able to pause tranquility.

    So r2 her or rank 5 Bullseye ?
  • Chief_WiggumChief_Wiggum Member Posts: 105
    Rohit_316 said:

    Rohit_316 said:

    Does Mantis needs dupe ?? I have a 7 star but i am confused whether to rank 2 her or rank 5 Bullseye.

    For damage .. no. her dupe is for debuff control via her tranquility strength when facing non science classes and able to pause tranquility.

    So r2 her or rank 5 Bullseye ?
    can't answer that.. both opposites.. one very good attacker and incredible defender. the other is an incredible attacker and decent defender. Its which one first.. the other follows
  • Rohit_316Rohit_316 Member Posts: 3,415 ★★★★★

    Rohit_316 said:

    Rohit_316 said:

    Does Mantis needs dupe ?? I have a 7 star but i am confused whether to rank 2 her or rank 5 Bullseye.

    For damage .. no. her dupe is for debuff control via her tranquility strength when facing non science classes and able to pause tranquility.

    So r2 her or rank 5 Bullseye ?
    can't answer that.. both opposites.. one very good attacker and incredible defender. the other is an incredible attacker and decent defender. Its which one first.. the other follows
    Which one is who i still can't figure out 😂
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
    edited July 12
    Mantis
    Magicsol said:

    There are only like 5-10 healthpools in the entire game that can survive that sp2 currently and it takes 30 seconds to get there so I'd say Mantis purely because of speed even in non-ideal situations like Onslaught or Sassy. I also think she's the better Photon counter overall cause she rarely gets debuffs on her in the first place so she rarely has to worry about pure light form.

    If Crossbones is decent sig photon doesn't even get to activate light form lmao
    She still gains some charges initially, with Mantis she almost never gets them cause of the tranquilize shutting down the debuffs the whole fight.
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
    Mantis
    Polygon said:

    There are only like 5-10 healthpools in the entire game that can survive that sp2 currently and it takes 30 seconds to get there so I'd say Mantis purely because of speed even in non-ideal situations like Onslaught or Sassy. I also think she's the better Photon counter overall cause she rarely gets debuffs on her in the first place so she rarely has to worry about pure light form.

    If crossbones gets good RNG he can be one of the fastest attackers in the game though.
    Mantis doesn't need good RNG to be fast and like I said, she can take a lot of matchups you wouldn't even consider optimal like Onslaught and Sassy.
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
    Mantis

    While I'd rather have an awakened Xbones as a r3, Mantis puts in phenomenal work as one of my r2s right now.

    Speaking of her, how do most of you play Mantis? I try to do the light ending combo first and then keep shallow intercepting a few times (this can sometimes backfire and I get popped in the face) to build the Emotion Charges, then MLLLM to get them defensive, hit into block as much as possible. Then heavy charge into sp2.

    IS there an "easier" method to doing her rotation, or is this pretty much what most of you all do as well?

    Start with infuriate and three intercepts then do light ending and hit on block, easiest and safest way to build up to 20 mixed emotions in 10 secs.
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 7,419 ★★★★★
    Mantis
    Mantis. However the real question is who's the better counter to Photon?
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
    Mantis
    EdisonLaw said:

    Mantis. However the real question is who's the better counter to Photon?

    CB unless sig 200 can still end up taking some block damage so Mantis
  • PolygonPolygon Member Posts: 4,505 ★★★★★

    Polygon said:

    There are only like 5-10 healthpools in the entire game that can survive that sp2 currently and it takes 30 seconds to get there so I'd say Mantis purely because of speed even in non-ideal situations like Onslaught or Sassy. I also think she's the better Photon counter overall cause she rarely gets debuffs on her in the first place so she rarely has to worry about pure light form.

    If crossbones gets good RNG he can be one of the fastest attackers in the game though.
    Mantis doesn't need good RNG to be fast and like I said, she can take a lot of matchups you wouldn't even consider optimal like Onslaught and Sassy.
    Trappy has a vid of xbones vs sassy, theres also some defenders he destroys that she just cant do like Thing.he also works on mutants like havok, bishop etc

    Does she have downsides like if the AI is bad? I know she has a big infuriate but nowadays thats not much if you look at Titanias intimidate. Is it like hers where the AI always does the opposite of whats expected and throws specials after your special?
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
    Mantis
    Polygon said:

    Polygon said:

    There are only like 5-10 healthpools in the entire game that can survive that sp2 currently and it takes 30 seconds to get there so I'd say Mantis purely because of speed even in non-ideal situations like Onslaught or Sassy. I also think she's the better Photon counter overall cause she rarely gets debuffs on her in the first place so she rarely has to worry about pure light form.

    If crossbones gets good RNG he can be one of the fastest attackers in the game though.
    Mantis doesn't need good RNG to be fast and like I said, she can take a lot of matchups you wouldn't even consider optimal like Onslaught and Sassy.
    Trappy has a vid of xbones vs sassy, theres also some defenders he destroys that she just cant do like Thing.he also works on mutants like havok, bishop etc

    Does she have downsides like if the AI is bad? I know she has a big infuriate but nowadays thats not much if you look at Titanias intimidate. Is it like hers where the AI always does the opposite of whats expected and throws specials after your special?
    He's slower than Mantis for Sassy and it's very risky cause of MD.
    As for Bishop and Havok, she can kill both in a single sp2 as well and her playstyle and kit counter some of their abilities. Bishop you force him to consume prowess while you do the hits on block, Havok you're very unlikely to trigger a single detonation cause of tranquilize especially if she's awakened.

    Ironically enough, I've never had bad AI with her. I use her and Adam consistently and I never get screwed over, I don't know if Mantis' infuriate and intimidate are just that strong or what but yeah AI always does exactly what I need them to do for me
  • PolygonPolygon Member Posts: 4,505 ★★★★★

    Polygon said:

    There are only like 5-10 healthpools in the entire game that can survive that sp2 currently and it takes 30 seconds to get there so I'd say Mantis purely because of speed even in non-ideal situations like Onslaught or Sassy. I also think she's the better Photon counter overall cause she rarely gets debuffs on her in the first place so she rarely has to worry about pure light form.

    If crossbones gets good RNG he can be one of the fastest attackers in the game though.
    Mantis doesn't need good RNG to be fast and like I said, she can take a lot of matchups you wouldn't even consider optimal like Onslaught and Sassy.
    Yeah thats true but then again arent there other attackers that people widely consider as good , but that are also reliant on RNG? Like Hulk

    in his case its both for the sp2 critting but also the Fury RNG (which sometimes makes him need to go for sp3 instead of sp2 which stalls the fight to a longer time)
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
    Mantis
    Polygon said:

    Polygon said:

    There are only like 5-10 healthpools in the entire game that can survive that sp2 currently and it takes 30 seconds to get there so I'd say Mantis purely because of speed even in non-ideal situations like Onslaught or Sassy. I also think she's the better Photon counter overall cause she rarely gets debuffs on her in the first place so she rarely has to worry about pure light form.

    If crossbones gets good RNG he can be one of the fastest attackers in the game though.
    Mantis doesn't need good RNG to be fast and like I said, she can take a lot of matchups you wouldn't even consider optimal like Onslaught and Sassy.
    Yeah thats true but then again arent there other attackers that people widely consider as good , but that are also reliant on RNG? Like Hulk

    in his case its both for the sp2 critting but also the Fury RNG (which sometimes makes him need to go for sp3 instead of sp2 which stalls the fight to a longer time)
    There are yeah, I'm not saying CB is bad cause he relies on RNG btw it's just that I consider Mantis not only easier to use but faster 90% of the time cause there's no RNG involved. I still think CB is top 10 and if I had him I'd r2 him too though
  • PolygonPolygon Member Posts: 4,505 ★★★★★

    Polygon said:

    Polygon said:

    There are only like 5-10 healthpools in the entire game that can survive that sp2 currently and it takes 30 seconds to get there so I'd say Mantis purely because of speed even in non-ideal situations like Onslaught or Sassy. I also think she's the better Photon counter overall cause she rarely gets debuffs on her in the first place so she rarely has to worry about pure light form.

    If crossbones gets good RNG he can be one of the fastest attackers in the game though.
    Mantis doesn't need good RNG to be fast and like I said, she can take a lot of matchups you wouldn't even consider optimal like Onslaught and Sassy.
    Yeah thats true but then again arent there other attackers that people widely consider as good , but that are also reliant on RNG? Like Hulk

    in his case its both for the sp2 critting but also the Fury RNG (which sometimes makes him need to go for sp3 instead of sp2 which stalls the fight to a longer time)
    There are yeah, I'm not saying CB is bad cause he relies on RNG btw it's just that I consider Mantis not only easier to use but faster 90% of the time cause there's no RNG involved. I still think CB is top 10 and if I had him I'd r2 him too though
    Yeah i get you, shes also not affected by buffs being shut down so another reason to r3 her over xbones.

    I had a feeling she had more "reach" but wasnt sure if shed benefit from rank 3 as much as him, but now that i think about it, champs like her that "nuke" in 1 sp2 would benefit a lot from the rank 3 because if that sp2 doesnt finish them off, the fight ends up getting stalled by a lot , whereas xbones just needs a few extra hits to finish the fight.

    Sunspot is another example of the being stalled if sp2 doesnt finish them so I'd probably put him in a similar bracket of high benefit as her.
  • SecondSkrillerSecondSkriller Member Posts: 1,319 ★★★★★
    Mantis
    Crossbones the most unreliable champ that people are hyping up recently. His stressful playstyle alone makes me stay away from him. Even so, he’s decent, but not better than someone who should literally be in everyone’s bg deck.
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 7,419 ★★★★★
    Mantis

    Crossbones the most unreliable champ that people are hyping up recently. His stressful playstyle alone makes me stay away from him. Even so, he’s decent, but not better than someone who should literally be in everyone’s bg deck.

    Everyone has their preferences.
  • UltragamerUltragamer Member Posts: 571 ★★★
    Crossbones
    Love my r3 mantis but this guy can handle more fights and do fights just as fast as her. One thing I do regret is r3ing her cause she still killing the defenders in the same amount of time as r2 it’s just a health increase.
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
    Mantis
    Polygon said:

    Polygon said:

    Polygon said:

    There are only like 5-10 healthpools in the entire game that can survive that sp2 currently and it takes 30 seconds to get there so I'd say Mantis purely because of speed even in non-ideal situations like Onslaught or Sassy. I also think she's the better Photon counter overall cause she rarely gets debuffs on her in the first place so she rarely has to worry about pure light form.

    If crossbones gets good RNG he can be one of the fastest attackers in the game though.
    Mantis doesn't need good RNG to be fast and like I said, she can take a lot of matchups you wouldn't even consider optimal like Onslaught and Sassy.
    Yeah thats true but then again arent there other attackers that people widely consider as good , but that are also reliant on RNG? Like Hulk

    in his case its both for the sp2 critting but also the Fury RNG (which sometimes makes him need to go for sp3 instead of sp2 which stalls the fight to a longer time)
    There are yeah, I'm not saying CB is bad cause he relies on RNG btw it's just that I consider Mantis not only easier to use but faster 90% of the time cause there's no RNG involved. I still think CB is top 10 and if I had him I'd r2 him too though
    Yeah i get you, shes also not affected by buffs being shut down so another reason to r3 her over xbones.

    I had a feeling she had more "reach" but wasnt sure if shed benefit from rank 3 as much as him, but now that i think about it, champs like her that "nuke" in 1 sp2 would benefit a lot from the rank 3 because if that sp2 doesnt finish them off, the fight ends up getting stalled by a lot , whereas xbones just needs a few extra hits to finish the fight.

    Sunspot is another example of the being stalled if sp2 doesnt finish them so I'd probably put him in a similar bracket of high benefit as her.
    Exactly, the buffs can hinder CB a lot against mystics. Mantis has almost zero issues against mystics like Sassy Mangog Doom Mephisto or Dragon Man, CB you have to time everything perfectly or you could accidentally end up eating sp3. Overall Mantis can handle more matchups than CB, the only matchups where I see CB being better are Thing and Serpent.

    She definitely benefits from that r3, r2 will usually end fights in a single sp2 but when you have her r3 she can easily deal 475k damage in a single sp2 rotation (just tried it against WS with mine) which takes 40 secs max and it also allows her to take matchups that aren't exactly ideal (such as matchups with crit resistance or a ton of armor). For example, a r3 Mantis can probably do a r6 Red Skull or Havok, a r2 however highly unlikely.

    Also yes with Mantis you always want the first sp2 to kill cause each sp2 rotation always takes 30 secs or longer but never less, CB if you loss a few furies you can just drop sp1 throw a few combos and you're good.
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 7,419 ★★★★★
    Mantis

    Polygon said:

    Polygon said:

    Polygon said:

    There are only like 5-10 healthpools in the entire game that can survive that sp2 currently and it takes 30 seconds to get there so I'd say Mantis purely because of speed even in non-ideal situations like Onslaught or Sassy. I also think she's the better Photon counter overall cause she rarely gets debuffs on her in the first place so she rarely has to worry about pure light form.

    If crossbones gets good RNG he can be one of the fastest attackers in the game though.
    Mantis doesn't need good RNG to be fast and like I said, she can take a lot of matchups you wouldn't even consider optimal like Onslaught and Sassy.
    Yeah thats true but then again arent there other attackers that people widely consider as good , but that are also reliant on RNG? Like Hulk

    in his case its both for the sp2 critting but also the Fury RNG (which sometimes makes him need to go for sp3 instead of sp2 which stalls the fight to a longer time)
    There are yeah, I'm not saying CB is bad cause he relies on RNG btw it's just that I consider Mantis not only easier to use but faster 90% of the time cause there's no RNG involved. I still think CB is top 10 and if I had him I'd r2 him too though
    Yeah i get you, shes also not affected by buffs being shut down so another reason to r3 her over xbones.

    I had a feeling she had more "reach" but wasnt sure if shed benefit from rank 3 as much as him, but now that i think about it, champs like her that "nuke" in 1 sp2 would benefit a lot from the rank 3 because if that sp2 doesnt finish them off, the fight ends up getting stalled by a lot , whereas xbones just needs a few extra hits to finish the fight.

    Sunspot is another example of the being stalled if sp2 doesnt finish them so I'd probably put him in a similar bracket of high benefit as her.
    Exactly, the buffs can hinder CB a lot against mystics. Mantis has almost zero issues against mystics like Sassy Mangog Doom Mephisto or Dragon Man, CB you have to time everything perfectly or you could accidentally end up eating sp3. Overall Mantis can handle more matchups than CB, the only matchups where I see CB being better are Thing and Serpent.

    She definitely benefits from that r3, r2 will usually end fights in a single sp2 but when you have her r3 she can easily deal 475k damage in a single sp2 rotation (just tried it against WS with mine) which takes 40 secs max and it also allows her to take matchups that aren't exactly ideal (such as matchups with crit resistance or a ton of armor). For example, a r3 Mantis can probably do a r6 Red Skull or Havok, a r2 however highly unlikely.

    Also yes with Mantis you always want the first sp2 to kill cause each sp2 rotation always takes 30 secs or longer but never less, CB if you loss a few furies you can just drop sp1 throw a few combos and you're good.
    How does Crossbones counter Serpent?
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
    Mantis
    EdisonLaw said:

    Polygon said:

    Polygon said:

    Polygon said:

    There are only like 5-10 healthpools in the entire game that can survive that sp2 currently and it takes 30 seconds to get there so I'd say Mantis purely because of speed even in non-ideal situations like Onslaught or Sassy. I also think she's the better Photon counter overall cause she rarely gets debuffs on her in the first place so she rarely has to worry about pure light form.

    If crossbones gets good RNG he can be one of the fastest attackers in the game though.
    Mantis doesn't need good RNG to be fast and like I said, she can take a lot of matchups you wouldn't even consider optimal like Onslaught and Sassy.
    Yeah thats true but then again arent there other attackers that people widely consider as good , but that are also reliant on RNG? Like Hulk

    in his case its both for the sp2 critting but also the Fury RNG (which sometimes makes him need to go for sp3 instead of sp2 which stalls the fight to a longer time)
    There are yeah, I'm not saying CB is bad cause he relies on RNG btw it's just that I consider Mantis not only easier to use but faster 90% of the time cause there's no RNG involved. I still think CB is top 10 and if I had him I'd r2 him too though
    Yeah i get you, shes also not affected by buffs being shut down so another reason to r3 her over xbones.

    I had a feeling she had more "reach" but wasnt sure if shed benefit from rank 3 as much as him, but now that i think about it, champs like her that "nuke" in 1 sp2 would benefit a lot from the rank 3 because if that sp2 doesnt finish them off, the fight ends up getting stalled by a lot , whereas xbones just needs a few extra hits to finish the fight.

    Sunspot is another example of the being stalled if sp2 doesnt finish them so I'd probably put him in a similar bracket of high benefit as her.
    Exactly, the buffs can hinder CB a lot against mystics. Mantis has almost zero issues against mystics like Sassy Mangog Doom Mephisto or Dragon Man, CB you have to time everything perfectly or you could accidentally end up eating sp3. Overall Mantis can handle more matchups than CB, the only matchups where I see CB being better are Thing and Serpent.

    She definitely benefits from that r3, r2 will usually end fights in a single sp2 but when you have her r3 she can easily deal 475k damage in a single sp2 rotation (just tried it against WS with mine) which takes 40 secs max and it also allows her to take matchups that aren't exactly ideal (such as matchups with crit resistance or a ton of armor). For example, a r3 Mantis can probably do a r6 Red Skull or Havok, a r2 however highly unlikely.

    Also yes with Mantis you always want the first sp2 to kill cause each sp2 rotation always takes 30 secs or longer but never less, CB if you loss a few furies you can just drop sp1 throw a few combos and you're good.
    How does Crossbones counter Serpent?
    He can prevent the death immunity buff completely with the furies and his damage isn't really lowered by Serpent's dread or any other abilities.
  • PolygonPolygon Member Posts: 4,505 ★★★★★
    edited July 13

    Love my r3 mantis but this guy can handle more fights and do fights just as fast as her. One thing I do regret is r3ing her cause she still killing the defenders in the same amount of time as r2 it’s just a health increase.

    @Ultragamer the r3 will help for when she gets matched against r3 defenders. For example , someone told me their r2 mantis doesnt one shot an r3 photon in 1 sp2
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
    Mantis
    Polygon said:

    Love my r3 mantis but this guy can handle more fights and do fights just as fast as her. One thing I do regret is r3ing her cause she still killing the defenders in the same amount of time as r2 it’s just a health increase.

    @Ultragamer the r3 will help for when she gets matched against r3 defenders. For example , someone told me their r2 mantis doesnt one shot an r3 photon in 1 sp2
    Exactly + allows her to take tanky r6 defenders she normally wouldn't be able to.
    Although she can definitely ko r3 Photons with one sp2 at r2, you just have to do the relic trick and make sure mixed emotions are maxed
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