If you take Proxima against Kingpin, he won't purify your parries because of her offensive ability accuracy reduction. She can even prevent his unstoppable from triggering
Defensive ability vs Offensive ability separation most likely.
But doesn’t she reduce both defensive and offensive Ability accuracy?
Yeah if an ability doesn't say defensive or offensive it should be both
There is no such thing as an offensive or defensive ability. Defensive ability accuracy reduction means that AAR is applied while attacking and vice versa
There is offensive and defensive abilities. E.g things rock stacks are defensive and so if you reduce his defensive ability accuracy when fighting him he won't trigger his rock stacks
No. They just happen to only trigger when getting hit is all.
When we say Defensive Ability Accuracy Reduction,what it means is
When you hit the opponent, you reduce their ability accuracy. Period. So any ability that would trigger in that frame would be affected . Regardless of whether it is an ability that gets triggered when getting hit or not.
Yes and abilities in the time frame you said are called defensive abilities. Offensive ability accuracy reduction won't do anything to things rock stacks. Because they are DEFENSIVE abilities
Is debuff purification of Korg a defensive ability or an offensive ability?
I dunno, maybe I'm wrong. Hopefully dna3000 can give some insight
I understand that completely and agree with it, I am saying that if tje ability happens at certain times, then based on when it happens it is a offensive or defensive ability and is affected by the specific aar reduction.
Defensive ability vs Offensive ability separation most likely.
But doesn’t she reduce both defensive and offensive Ability accuracy?
Yeah if an ability doesn't say defensive or offensive it should be both
There is no such thing as an offensive or defensive ability. Defensive ability accuracy reduction means that AAR is applied while attacking and vice versa
There is offensive and defensive abilities. E.g things rock stacks are defensive and so if you reduce his defensive ability accuracy when fighting him he won't trigger his rock stacks
No. They just happen to only trigger when getting hit is all.
When we say Defensive Ability Accuracy Reduction,what it means is
When you hit the opponent, you reduce their ability accuracy. Period. So any ability that would trigger in that frame would be affected . Regardless of whether it is an ability that gets triggered when getting hit or not.
Yes and abilities in the time frame you said are called defensive abilities. Offensive ability accuracy reduction won't do anything to things rock stacks. Because they are DEFENSIVE abilities
Is debuff purification of Korg a defensive ability or an offensive ability?
I dunno, maybe I'm wrong. Hopefully dna3000 can give some insight
I understand that completely and agree with it, I am saying that if tje ability happens at certain times, then based on when it happens it is a offensive or defensive ability and is affected by the specific aar reduction.
The reason why I say there’s no such thing as offensive or defensive ability accuracy is because there is no such stat, there’s only ability accuracy. There is such a thing as offensive or defensive ability accuracy reduction, because that’s just a reduction that takes place at the moment the champion strikes or is struck by an opponent. OAAR and DAAR are effects that take place at specific times.
There is such a thing as an offensive ability and defensive ability, in the sense that these are also defined by their triggers. If the ability triggers on striking the opponent it is normally called an offensive ability, and if it triggers when struck that is normally called a defensive ability.
But where you have to be careful is in assuming OAAR only affects offensive abilities and vice versa, because those aren’t types of things, those are just descriptions for when things happen. Imagine you have an OAAR effect on you. That means your ability accuracy is being reduced when you strike opponents. If you have a defensive ability, and it triggers at the moment *you* strike *the opponent* that defensive ability will have its ability accuracy reduced even though it is not an ‘offensive ability.” All the OAAR effect knows is it should kick in when you hit something, and any ability that attempts to trigger during that moment will be affected no matter what it is called or what it is.
The terms “offensive” and “defensive” describe what’s happening, but do not globally categorize anything. OAAR does not “look for” offensive abilities. From the game engine perspective, the fact that OAAR affects so-called offensive abilities is coincidental. The game engine is more than happy to apply OAAR to defensive abilities, if they trigger at the right instant of time.
Defensive ability vs Offensive ability separation most likely.
But doesn’t she reduce both defensive and offensive Ability accuracy?
Yeah if an ability doesn't say defensive or offensive it should be both
There is no such thing as an offensive or defensive ability. Defensive ability accuracy reduction means that AAR is applied while attacking and vice versa
There is offensive and defensive abilities. E.g things rock stacks are defensive and so if you reduce his defensive ability accuracy when fighting him he won't trigger his rock stacks
No. They just happen to only trigger when getting hit is all.
When we say Defensive Ability Accuracy Reduction,what it means is
When you hit the opponent, you reduce their ability accuracy. Period. So any ability that would trigger in that frame would be affected . Regardless of whether it is an ability that gets triggered when getting hit or not.
Yes and abilities in the time frame you said are called defensive abilities. Offensive ability accuracy reduction won't do anything to things rock stacks. Because they are DEFENSIVE abilities
Is debuff purification of Korg a defensive ability or an offensive ability?
I dunno, maybe I'm wrong. Hopefully dna3000 can give some insight
I understand that completely and agree with it, I am saying that if tje ability happens at certain times, then based on when it happens it is a offensive or defensive ability and is affected by the specific aar reduction.
The reason why I say there’s no such thing as offensive or defensive ability accuracy is because there is no such stat, there’s only ability accuracy. There is such a thing as offensive or defensive ability accuracy reduction, because that’s just a reduction that takes place at the moment the champion strikes or is struck by an opponent. OAAR and DAAR are effects that take place at specific times.
There is such a thing as an offensive ability and defensive ability, in the sense that these are also defined by their triggers. If the ability triggers on striking the opponent it is normally called an offensive ability, and if it triggers when struck that is normally called a defensive ability.
But where you have to be careful is in assuming OAAR only affects offensive abilities and vice versa, because those aren’t types of things, those are just descriptions for when things happen. Imagine you have an OAAR effect on you. That means your ability accuracy is being reduced when you strike opponents. If you have a defensive ability, and it triggers at the moment *you* strike *the opponent* that defensive ability will have its ability accuracy reduced even though it is not an ‘offensive ability.” All the OAAR effect knows is it should kick in when you hit something, and any ability that attempts to trigger during that moment will be affected no matter what it is called or what it is.
The terms “offensive” and “defensive” describe what’s happening, but do not globally categorize anything. OAAR does not “look for” offensive abilities. From the game engine perspective, the fact that OAAR affects so-called offensive abilities is coincidental. The game engine is more than happy to apply OAAR to defensive abilities, if they trigger at the right instant of time.
Defensive ability vs Offensive ability separation most likely.
But doesn’t she reduce both defensive and offensive Ability accuracy?
Yeah if an ability doesn't say defensive or offensive it should be both
There is no such thing as an offensive or defensive ability. Defensive ability accuracy reduction means that AAR is applied while attacking and vice versa
That's how it should be, but tell that to glancing.
I believe in the technical sense, Glancing is not a defensive ability: it does not “trigger” like other abilities when you attempt to strike the target, which is why DAAR does not prevent it from triggering. From an algorithmic perspective, I believe glancing is calculated by the game engine first, before any ability accuracy calculations. In other words, IF GLANCING THEN, ELSE. There’s no way for any other normal effect to counter glancing, because glancing is determined first.
This is not as weird as it sounds. Offensive ability accuracy reduction does not lower crit chance, because even though crits sound like an offensive ability, they aren’t. There’s a chance to land additional damage, but that chance is not an ability accuracy. Some things sound like, but aren’t. We’re comfortable with crits only because they’ve been here from the beginning, and for some of us the notion of critical hits is a fundamental game design trope so we give it a pass. On the defensive side, blocking reduces damage, but it is not a defensive ability with a defensive ability accuracy. If your DAA is reduced to zero, you can still block and the block still properly reduces damage.
Glancing should be thought of in the same way, but for whatever reasons it isn’t.
One random thing I noticed a while back that has always bothered me: when using awakened domino as an attacker vs. Kingpin, if I parry him and he fails to purify it, shouldn't he take crit failure damage from domino's sig ability?
Well, spoiler alert: he doesn't. The critical failure never procs.
Can anybody explain why?
As to this, off the top of my head I can’t think of a good reason, except Domino.
Domino was created long before a lot of the more complex ability accuracy effects were standardized in the game engine, and so her abilities were implemented in complex ways no other champion uses. As a result, there are a lot of odd corner cases where the explanation for why things happen the way they appear to happen is: Domino.
One random thing I noticed a while back that has always bothered me: when using awakened domino as an attacker vs. Kingpin, if I parry him and he fails to purify it, shouldn't he take crit failure damage from domino's sig ability?
Well, spoiler alert: he doesn't. The critical failure never procs.
Can anybody explain why?
As to this, off the top of my head I can’t think of a good reason, except Domino.
Domino was created long before a lot of the more complex ability accuracy effects were standardized in the game engine, and so her abilities were implemented in complex ways no other champion uses. As a result, there are a lot of odd corner cases where the explanation for why things happen the way they appear to happen is: Domino.
I’ll investigate and see if I can find out.
Id like to know what u find in ur investigation as she is defo one thats very complex with her aar
Also, thanks for the explanation on defensive vs. offensive AAR. I didn't specifically ask for that here, but I have been confused about that on several occasions as well, so you saved me a post!
Regarding my original question: if it's a useful datapoint for discussion, when fighting King Groot, CF *does* proc when he fails to purify my stun with a fury buff.
Also, thanks for the explanation on defensive vs. offensive AAR. I didn't specifically ask for that here, but I have been confused about that on several occasions as well, so you saved me a post!
Regarding my original question: if it's a useful datapoint for discussion, when fighting King Groot, CF *does* proc when he fails to purify my stun with a fury buff.
Also, thanks for the explanation on defensive vs. offensive AAR. I didn't specifically ask for that here, but I have been confused about that on several occasions as well, so you saved me a post!
Regarding my original question: if it's a useful datapoint for discussion, when fighting King Groot, CF *does* proc when he fails to purify my stun with a fury buff.
Comments
But it doesn't work against Korg for some reason
There is such a thing as an offensive ability and defensive ability, in the sense that these are also defined by their triggers. If the ability triggers on striking the opponent it is normally called an offensive ability, and if it triggers when struck that is normally called a defensive ability.
But where you have to be careful is in assuming OAAR only affects offensive abilities and vice versa, because those aren’t types of things, those are just descriptions for when things happen. Imagine you have an OAAR effect on you. That means your ability accuracy is being reduced when you strike opponents. If you have a defensive ability, and it triggers at the moment *you* strike *the opponent* that defensive ability will have its ability accuracy reduced even though it is not an ‘offensive ability.” All the OAAR effect knows is it should kick in when you hit something, and any ability that attempts to trigger during that moment will be affected no matter what it is called or what it is.
The terms “offensive” and “defensive” describe what’s happening, but do not globally categorize anything. OAAR does not “look for” offensive abilities. From the game engine perspective, the fact that OAAR affects so-called offensive abilities is coincidental. The game engine is more than happy to apply OAAR to defensive abilities, if they trigger at the right instant of time.
This is not as weird as it sounds. Offensive ability accuracy reduction does not lower crit chance, because even though crits sound like an offensive ability, they aren’t. There’s a chance to land additional damage, but that chance is not an ability accuracy. Some things sound like, but aren’t. We’re comfortable with crits only because they’ve been here from the beginning, and for some of us the notion of critical hits is a fundamental game design trope so we give it a pass. On the defensive side, blocking reduces damage, but it is not a defensive ability with a defensive ability accuracy. If your DAA is reduced to zero, you can still block and the block still properly reduces damage.
Glancing should be thought of in the same way, but for whatever reasons it isn’t.
Domino was created long before a lot of the more complex ability accuracy effects were standardized in the game engine, and so her abilities were implemented in complex ways no other champion uses. As a result, there are a lot of odd corner cases where the explanation for why things happen the way they appear to happen is: Domino.
I’ll investigate and see if I can find out.
Also, thanks for the explanation on defensive vs. offensive AAR. I didn't specifically ask for that here, but I have been confused about that on several occasions as well, so you saved me a post!
Regarding my original question: if it's a useful datapoint for discussion, when fighting King Groot, CF *does* proc when he fails to purify my stun with a fury buff.