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How much monetization is too much?

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  • SuckmysigmaSuckmysigma Member Posts: 80
    edited July 4
    For all the dev suckers out they’re sure they can charge and us F2Ps won’t spend it’s a company and they DO have to charge sure but it’s HOW they charge. It’s like a class war that even the mega whales grow tired of. Go ahead make deals they need to after all! But don’t crush the game with them ( charging insane prices for insane champs, starving the causal/F2Ps, and ruining events with basically paywalls)
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 37,620 ★★★★★
    Squidopus said:

    Squidopus said:

    Buttehrs said:

    Buttehrs said:

    More to the point, it's a business. There's no such thing as too much. We can still play for free if we choose.

    There absolutely is such thing as too much. The aggressive push for 600 dollars every 2-3 months is too much when you compare it to doing that only 2 times a year.
    Too much for who?
    For people who think they must buy everything, perhaps.
    For a company who is trying to keep the lights on, not at all.
    No one is forcing anyone to buy these. If it's too much for us personally, we're free to pass. The fact that people are still offended with EVERY Offer this game releases almost 11 years later is crazy to me. They're a business. They're going to try and make money.
    When even the mega whales who buy everything says its becoming too aggressive and predatory, then something is obviously wrong. Just cause you either refuse or fail to see that doesn't make it any less true.
    Predatory is a ridiculous word for a mobile game that offers optional sales.
    I don’t have a particular opinion on the sales, hence my lack of comment, but this is just blatantly wrong. “Predatory” has been standard language used to describe all sort of gacha mobile game tactics designed to trick people into spending money, we’ve had literal legislation written because of it. We have drop rates on crystals because of this. Again, I make no comment on whether such language deserves to be applied here to MCOC but this feels like a ridiculous claim to make given the very real specter that hangs around similar games.
    You can call it what you want. I don't agree. No one is being tricked into anything.
    Gonna be real, this is the comment that makes me finally agree with everyone that you’re loony.

    Predatory has never been a term that requires force or even strict coercion in anything but the literal predator/prey sense. Predatory lenders don’t force anyone to accept their loans. Predatory behavior doesn’t need to involve literal coercion, many victims engage willingly. It just means you’re preying on people in some way, often in a deceitful manner. Literally every industry engages in this sort of thing, intensive research into human psychology to figure out how to make people do what you want without them realizing there’s anything suspicious going on. The video game industry is no different, microtransactions and lootboxes especially. The idea that either these sort of things don’t exist or that it’s just a skill issue on consumer’s part is so offensive and divorced from reality that it’s kinda staggering.

    And because you seem to really want to defend MCOC, I will restate from my original comment that I’m speaking generally and make no claims as to whether MCOC is predatory. I just find your apparent take that predatory tactics don’t exist or don’t matter to be fundamentally appalling. The human brain is a weird thing, and expecting that people just know how to avoid any and all ways that it can be taken advantage of is just myopic. People don’t work like that.
    You can write as many paragraphs as you want, but I do not agree that the game is predatory. That kind of strong ideology for a game that is designed to entice people to enjoy it and play has never sat well with me, and I will never agree to that. You'd have a great time with the gambling debate with me. I disagree. Feel free to form whatever opinions you want. No one would play the game at all if it wasn't designed to appeal to people. That's much less nefarious than some people assert.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 37,620 ★★★★★
    BigBlueOx said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    Squidopus said:

    Buttehrs said:

    Buttehrs said:

    More to the point, it's a business. There's no such thing as too much. We can still play for free if we choose.

    There absolutely is such thing as too much. The aggressive push for 600 dollars every 2-3 months is too much when you compare it to doing that only 2 times a year.
    Too much for who?
    For people who think they must buy everything, perhaps.
    For a company who is trying to keep the lights on, not at all.
    No one is forcing anyone to buy these. If it's too much for us personally, we're free to pass. The fact that people are still offended with EVERY Offer this game releases almost 11 years later is crazy to me. They're a business. They're going to try and make money.
    When even the mega whales who buy everything says its becoming too aggressive and predatory, then something is obviously wrong. Just cause you either refuse or fail to see that doesn't make it any less true.
    Predatory is a ridiculous word for a mobile game that offers optional sales.
    I don’t have a particular opinion on the sales, hence my lack of comment, but this is just blatantly wrong. “Predatory” has been standard language used to describe all sort of gacha mobile game tactics designed to trick people into spending money, we’ve had literal legislation written because of it. We have drop rates on crystals because of this. Again, I make no comment on whether such language deserves to be applied here to MCOC but this feels like a ridiculous claim to make given the very real specter that hangs around similar games.
    You can call it what you want. I don't agree. No one is being tricked into anything. Also, I was around when the Drop Rates were posted. I don't need a lesson on that.
    *also worth noting that there exists no such law. The Drop Rates were posted because they were required by the platforms MCOC has partnered with, and they honored that.
    you're not really listening.

    the game is losing some of it's magic, whether you spend $6k a year or $2k the experience is the same, nothing really matters and it feels like we're sleep-walking into the next rarity wondering what's the point. this time next year they could announce 8*s for release in summer 2027 and it feels empty. how will 8*s be any different than what they're currently doing?
    I listened. I also said I respect that you feel that way, and I'm sure others do as well.
    The topic is about how much monetization is too much, and that's what I'm addressing. There is no such thing as too much in a game that makes it optional. For literal years, they've been saying that not all offers are for everyone. That's not just a blanket statement, that's literal. Also, monetizing less isn't going to help the game be less stale.
    Now, if someone had an issue with the newest shiniest things always being too expensive, that I could see. I don't have any control over that, but I get it. What I take issue with is the idea that they're monetizing too much in general because that's just asinine. They're a business. They need to do business things. Businesses are a lot like Hollywood movies. If something has a modicum of success, they'll keep doing it until it stops working.
    Doesn’t sustainability matter? At some point, if you burn out your user base, you lose your consumers, and the game is dead anyways.

    This is just a conversation to point out maybe this path forward of maximizing short term gains may not be good for long term success, as this event used to be exciting… this year it just felt stale and overly aggressive. Based on the reaction from this segment it’s not fun anymore, and I’d wager a bet that this sentiment is probably true throughout the highly engaged segment of the community.

    I doubt creator videos about Crystal openings do as well as they used too. Because if there’s always a Crystal event it’s really not interesting.
    Sometimes people burn out. That's nothing new. Based on your original post, it sounds like you're just over the game in general. It happens. That doesn't mean you speak for the entire community.
    I don’t think I’ve claimed that, just sharing the overwhelming sentiment I’ve seen in every communication channel I’m a part of. But you and I’ve done this dance where you straw man and misrepresent concerns and you argue against things that were never said more than once. Not surprised we disagree at all, and not interested in another dance.
    I've seen you in countless discussions and my statement about you being over the game comes from the fact that you seem to have a complaint at every turn. The communication channels make up a small percentage of the Players. The fact is, people have complained about every single Offer they've ever made. Half the time, the irony is that it's people who have no intentions of buying it to begin with. Have prices gone up? Sure. So has the rest of the world. The only thing I can respond to is what you post, and it reads more of a cynical vent that the game is selling more often than they used to. Which doesn't matter to people who don't want to pay it.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 37,620 ★★★★★

    BigBlueOx said:

    Squidopus said:

    Buttehrs said:

    Buttehrs said:

    More to the point, it's a business. There's no such thing as too much. We can still play for free if we choose.

    There absolutely is such thing as too much. The aggressive push for 600 dollars every 2-3 months is too much when you compare it to doing that only 2 times a year.
    Too much for who?
    For people who think they must buy everything, perhaps.
    For a company who is trying to keep the lights on, not at all.
    No one is forcing anyone to buy these. If it's too much for us personally, we're free to pass. The fact that people are still offended with EVERY Offer this game releases almost 11 years later is crazy to me. They're a business. They're going to try and make money.
    When even the mega whales who buy everything says its becoming too aggressive and predatory, then something is obviously wrong. Just cause you either refuse or fail to see that doesn't make it any less true.
    Predatory is a ridiculous word for a mobile game that offers optional sales.
    I don’t have a particular opinion on the sales, hence my lack of comment, but this is just blatantly wrong. “Predatory” has been standard language used to describe all sort of gacha mobile game tactics designed to trick people into spending money, we’ve had literal legislation written because of it. We have drop rates on crystals because of this. Again, I make no comment on whether such language deserves to be applied here to MCOC but this feels like a ridiculous claim to make given the very real specter that hangs around similar games.
    You can call it what you want. I don't agree. No one is being tricked into anything. Also, I was around when the Drop Rates were posted. I don't need a lesson on that.
    *also worth noting that there exists no such law. The Drop Rates were posted because they were required by the platforms MCOC has partnered with, and they honored that.
    you're not really listening.

    the game is losing some of it's magic, whether you spend $6k a year or $2k the experience is the same, nothing really matters and it feels like we're sleep-walking into the next rarity wondering what's the point. this time next year they could announce 8*s for release in summer 2027 and it feels empty. how will 8*s be any different than what they're currently doing?
    I listened. I also said I respect that you feel that way, and I'm sure others do as well.
    The topic is about how much monetization is too much, and that's what I'm addressing. There is no such thing as too much in a game that makes it optional. For literal years, they've been saying that not all offers are for everyone. That's not just a blanket statement, that's literal. Also, monetizing less isn't going to help the game be less stale.
    Now, if someone had an issue with the newest shiniest things always being too expensive, that I could see. I don't have any control over that, but I get it. What I take issue with is the idea that they're monetizing too much in general because that's just asinine. They're a business. They need to do business things. Businesses are a lot like Hollywood movies. If something has a modicum of success, they'll keep doing it until it stops working.
    Doesn’t sustainability matter? At some point, if you burn out your user base, you lose your consumers, and the game is dead anyways.

    This is just a conversation to point out maybe this path forward of maximizing short term gains may not be good for long term success, as this event used to be exciting… this year it just felt stale and overly aggressive. Based on the reaction from this segment it’s not fun anymore, and I’d wager a bet that this sentiment is probably true throughout the highly engaged segment of the community.

    I doubt creator videos about Crystal openings do as well as they used too. Because if there’s always a Crystal event it’s really not interesting.
    Sometimes people burn out. That's nothing new. Based on your original post, it sounds like you're just over the game in general. It happens. That doesn't mean you speak for the entire community.
    it's not simply "burnout", it's also value.

    a group throws 2 giant parties a year and everyone is there having a great time drinking and eating quality food. the entrance fee is $100.

    then they go from 2 parties a year costing $100 each to 8 parties a year costing $100 each and in every party the quality of food and drinks goes way down. you go from champagne and rare cognac to sparkling water and coke and for the sake of argument let's say that socializing isn't the point.

    would most people still go? why would they spend 4 times as much for things that don't matter? why go to all 8 parties if you can show up to 1 or 2 and still have the same general experience? people will start looking at the flyers for the next "big party" and just roll their eyes.

    nothing against kabam making money, it's great, and they should do it, but there comes a point where things lose their sparkle.
    Who says we have to go to every party? That's going to wear thin no matter how good the party is.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 37,620 ★★★★★
    Yes, let's take it to a personal level because I don't agree with your point of view. I'm reading every word people are saying. I just don't agree. People don't take responsibility for their own choices enough in my opinion.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 37,620 ★★★★★
    It's not predatory. Sorry, disagree.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 37,620 ★★★★★
    I haven't "gotten anyone banned". People are responsible for what they post.
    Seatin is free to make whatever videos he wants, and how he spends is up to him. Just as it's up to anyone here how they spend. I don't have to agree just because it's Seatin.
    I've had my issues just like anyone else. I really had a problem with how many Units they wanted us to spend for a 6* Dark Phoenix, and I voiced that. So I'm not kissing anyone's behind. In this particular case, I just don't agree with the sentiment. The OP asked how much monetization was too much, then the Thread turned into a vent about the game being stale, and that has nothing to do with monetization, honestly. If people feel the game is stale, selling less isn't going to change that.
    I'm in my 40s. I don't waste my time arguing for the sake of it. I don't have the time to waste. I simply don't agree with the sentiment here. That's about it.
  • MontycarloMontycarlo Member Posts: 122 ★★
    Chovner said:

    I blocked GW and DF a long time ago, makes the boards and threads like this way more bearable, until people quote their posts them you’re forced to see their comments

    How do I block him is their a way I didnt know it in the past. Please can you post where are the steps?
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 37,620 ★★★★★

    Yes, let's take it to a personal level because I don't agree with your point of view. I'm reading every word people are saying. I just don't agree. People don't take responsibility for their own choices enough in my opinion.

    varied opinions are ok, everyone has them, but objective facts are a thing and the fact is, the spending ceiling has gone up 4-6x in the last say 7-9 years while the experience has basically stayed the same (ranks resetting every year).

    why disregard evidence?
    The experience hasn't stayed the same. We wouldn't be here if it did. You're using your own personal view as evidence, and that's subjective.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 37,620 ★★★★★

    I haven't "gotten anyone banned". People are responsible for what they post.
    Seatin is free to make whatever videos he wants, and how he spends is up to him. Just as it's up to anyone here how they spend. I don't have to agree just because it's Seatin.
    I've had my issues just like anyone else. I really had a problem with how many Units they wanted us to spend for a 6* Dark Phoenix, and I voiced that. So I'm not kissing anyone's behind. In this particular case, I just don't agree with the sentiment. The OP asked how much monetization was too much, then the Thread turned into a vent about the game being stale, and that has nothing to do with monetization, honestly. If people feel the game is stale, selling less isn't going to change that.
    I'm in my 40s. I don't waste my time arguing for the sake of it. I don't have the time to waste. I simply don't agree with the sentiment here. That's about it.

    you kinda did.

    when kabam had a heavy foot on the ban/censor button, players would raise very valid points about an issue, you would claim it wasn't happening or not a big deal when it actually was, then threads would get derailed then locked, and the community would instantly lose their voice on that particular important issue. and reposting that issue would also cause locks, warnings, and bans.

    it was pretty bad back then, kabam has done great in that regard since.
    No, I didn’t. People were banned for breaking the rules. 9 times out of 10, they'd get personal and dog pile, and that's a sure fire way to end a discussion. It's not personal for me. I can agree or disagree without attacking someone's character. The idea that I get people banned is just absent of responsibility, and just another way of calling me a troll. I don't say things just to get a reaction, and I'm not what gets people banned. It's the vitriol they post themselves.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 37,620 ★★★★★

    More to the point, it's a business. There's no such thing as too much. We can still play for free if we choose.

    from a customer POV, the oversaturation of offers literally waters down the product and also makes us less excited for big deals since they're happening like every other month now. they're good and exciting in a sense and fund the game, but still.

    end gamers might be paying $5000 a year for the same experience they had for $800 8 years ago. it's just not worth spending anymore since ranks reset every year anyway. why feel FOMO when you can just wait it out.
    That's entirely up to you, and I'm sure other people feel that way as well. That doesn't mean they're going to stop marketing. Others will spend, and more power to them. It keeps the game going.
    What a brain dead reply lol what's better 10 whales dropping 1k in an event or 10 whales + 100 low to mid end spenders also spending on said event because spending, even if just half of what whales spend, gets you good stuff too?which do you think would keep the game running for longer too? You're so dense you're not getting the point, this isn't even about f2p players mainly it's about the fact that even p2w players are getting sick of tKabam's greediness.
    What's brain dead is taking it personally that they're introducing ways to make more money when that's been keeping the lights on for 10 and a half years.
    Wouldn't the locial thing be making lower offers more appealing as well so low toid end spenders are also encouraged to spend instead of just whales? Think before you reply again please.

    As for your ten years comment, I already told you, sales have been getting more expensive gradually not jumping from $400 to $600 in a span of three months, that's predatory and greedy indeed.
    I'm sorry, are the only Offers available the $600 ones you're referring to? I'm quite positive the game offers a range of things for money. You're talking about things as if they're unilateral, and that's not the case.
    I have no idea what you're talking about when you keep referencing $400 to $600, but there's nothing predatory about "We are offering X and it will cost Y.". Whether Y was $400, or $600 is irrelevant. That's what's being offered, and part of being an adult is making our own financial decisions. We either decide to buy it, or we don't.
    Yes, but those lower offers were bad compared to what the whales received. They killed most of the incentive when they made Torch available for $600 instead of $400 like Red Guardian, that's being greedy.

    I keep referencing the fact that Red Guardian was available for $400 while Torch went up to $600 for absolutely no reason other than pure greed. You don't even know what I'm referencing and you're arguing lol.

    Correct, but wouldn't the smart thing be to try to get as many people to buy it by offering rewards that align more with what the big spenders are getting instead of creating a huge gap between whales and low to mid spenders? Of course whales will get more but the difference should not be this big, they're trying to use FOMO and high prices
    as incentive when they really should be using the items inside the offers themselves as incentive. It's almost like you have no common sense whatsoever, truly baffling.
    Why are you comparing J4 with Red Guardian? Not related at all. For that matter, there's no set amount. I'm not going to argue that you find it disincentivizing if that's how you feel. I can respect that. I just don't see the connection you're making. No one ever said spending the same amount would get Torch. Also, I believe you spent Units for Torch, not money.
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