Please Fix War Tanking!

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Comments

  • MaatManMaatMan Member Posts: 958 ★★★
    Drooped2 wrote: »
    Sighsohard wrote: »
    Lol. It’s sctually prettty easy. Lock war ratings during offseason. Still have war but leave ranking and rating unimpacted. Sure you could tank in season if you played well enough. But good on ya.

    Punishes legit new allainces to solve a problem they dodnt cause. Sorry but solutions dont punish the innocent ones

    the fixed war start times does the exact same thing. but here we are.
  • SighsohardSighsohard Member Posts: 666 ★★★
    Now your
    Drooped2 wrote: »
    Sighsohard wrote: »
    Drooped2 wrote: »
    Sighsohard wrote: »
    Drooped2 wrote: »
    Sighsohard wrote: »
    Drooped2 wrote: »
    Sighsohard wrote: »
    Lol. It’s sctually prettty easy. Lock war ratings during offseason. Still have war but leave ranking and rating unimpacted. Sure you could tank in season if you played well enough. But good on ya.

    Punishes legit new allainces to solve a problem they dodnt cause. Sorry but solutions dont punish the innocent ones

    How? Because they can’t climb ladder during offseason fighting tankers? No

    So a new allaince trying to build rating that's all they want to do. start at zero. No matter what.
    Is locked for a week or 2.

    That limits them alot nobody is tanking below gold 1 so all those allainces suffer from locking it

    How are they suffering when everyone has to build rating and ranking the same way... during the season. When it matters.

    Why should what you do in the offseason count towards your in season rewards. You do hear how that sounds right?

    Theres alot better ways to solve this that punish the guys causing the problem instead of everyone else.

    1 week suspension of season wars if caught intentionally tanking off season boom issue solved.

    Sorry dude. But I don’t agree with you. You basically are advocating for there never to be an offseason. You want every war to count. Wars out of season shouldn’t count toward season rewards.

    That would be like preseason games in sports actually mattering. It’s ludacris.

    Every war SHOULD COUNT its war. War isnt a sport. People die in wars pretry sure that means they all count. But hey compare it to so sporting event.

    Done with you lol. You’re comparing Mcoc war to actual war. Where people die. Eesh
  • MaatManMaatMan Member Posts: 958 ★★★
    Drooped2 wrote: »
    Sighsohard wrote: »
    Drooped2 wrote: »
    Sighsohard wrote: »
    Drooped2 wrote: »
    Sighsohard wrote: »
    Drooped2 wrote: »
    Sighsohard wrote: »
    Lol. It’s sctually prettty easy. Lock war ratings during offseason. Still have war but leave ranking and rating unimpacted. Sure you could tank in season if you played well enough. But good on ya.

    Punishes legit new allainces to solve a problem they dodnt cause. Sorry but solutions dont punish the innocent ones

    How? Because they can’t climb ladder during offseason fighting tankers? No

    So a new allaince trying to build rating that's all they want to do. start at zero. No matter what.
    Is locked for a week or 2.

    That limits them alot nobody is tanking below gold 1 so all those allainces suffer from locking it

    How are they suffering when everyone has to build rating and ranking the same way... during the season. When it matters.

    Why should what you do in the offseason count towards your in season rewards. You do hear how that sounds right?

    Theres alot better ways to solve this that punish the guys causing the problem instead of everyone else.

    1 week suspension of season wars if caught intentionally tanking off season boom issue solved.

    Sorry dude. But I don’t agree with you. You basically are advocating for there never to be an offseason. You want every war to count. Wars out of season shouldn’t count toward season rewards.

    That would be like preseason games in sports actually mattering. It’s ludacris.

    Every war SHOULD COUNT its war. War isnt a sport. People die in wars pretry sure that means they all count. But hey compare it to so sporting event.

    because it is.
    this is a game.
    just as a sport is.
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Member Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    Drooped2 wrote: »
    Sighsohard wrote: »
    Drooped2 wrote: »
    Sighsohard wrote: »
    Drooped2 wrote: »
    Sighsohard wrote: »
    Drooped2 wrote: »
    Sighsohard wrote: »
    Lol. It’s sctually prettty easy. Lock war ratings during offseason. Still have war but leave ranking and rating unimpacted. Sure you could tank in season if you played well enough. But good on ya.

    Punishes legit new allainces to solve a problem they dodnt cause. Sorry but solutions dont punish the innocent ones

    How? Because they can’t climb ladder during offseason fighting tankers? No

    So a new allaince trying to build rating that's all they want to do. start at zero. No matter what.
    Is locked for a week or 2.

    That limits them alot nobody is tanking below gold 1 so all those allainces suffer from locking it

    How are they suffering when everyone has to build rating and ranking the same way... during the season. When it matters.

    Why should what you do in the offseason count towards your in season rewards. You do hear how that sounds right?

    Theres alot better ways to solve this that punish the guys causing the problem instead of everyone else.

    1 week suspension of season wars if caught intentionally tanking off season boom issue solved.

    Sorry dude. But I don’t agree with you. You basically are advocating for there never to be an offseason. You want every war to count. Wars out of season shouldn’t count toward season rewards.

    That would be like preseason games in sports actually mattering. It’s ludacris.

    Every war SHOULD COUNT its war. War isnt a sport. People die in wars pretry sure that means they all count. But hey compare it to so sporting event.

    This has got to be one of the most ridiculous things I've read here if it's not a very poor troll attempt
  • MaatManMaatMan Member Posts: 958 ★★★
    Drooped2 wrote: »
    MaatMan wrote: »
    Drooped2 wrote: »
    Sighsohard wrote: »
    Drooped2 wrote: »
    Sighsohard wrote: »
    Drooped2 wrote: »
    Sighsohard wrote: »
    Drooped2 wrote: »
    Sighsohard wrote: »
    Lol. It’s sctually prettty easy. Lock war ratings during offseason. Still have war but leave ranking and rating unimpacted. Sure you could tank in season if you played well enough. But good on ya.

    Punishes legit new allainces to solve a problem they dodnt cause. Sorry but solutions dont punish the innocent ones

    How? Because they can’t climb ladder during offseason fighting tankers? No

    So a new allaince trying to build rating that's all they want to do. start at zero. No matter what.
    Is locked for a week or 2.

    That limits them alot nobody is tanking below gold 1 so all those allainces suffer from locking it

    How are they suffering when everyone has to build rating and ranking the same way... during the season. When it matters.

    Why should what you do in the offseason count towards your in season rewards. You do hear how that sounds right?

    Theres alot better ways to solve this that punish the guys causing the problem instead of everyone else.

    1 week suspension of season wars if caught intentionally tanking off season boom issue solved.

    Sorry dude. But I don’t agree with you. You basically are advocating for there never to be an offseason. You want every war to count. Wars out of season shouldn’t count toward season rewards.

    That would be like preseason games in sports actually mattering. It’s ludacris.

    Every war SHOULD COUNT its war. War isnt a sport. People die in wars pretry sure that means they all count. But hey compare it to so sporting event.

    because it is.
    this is a game.
    just as a sport is.

    Then rename the content to something that indicates it doesn't matter in the end.

    Sorry but war is supposed to be important and they all count.

    war is as important to you and your alliance as you make it.

    but at the end of the day this is a game.
    different people have different priorities within the game than others.

    Me and my alliance see wars as most important. but we are happy competing at t6 where wars can be challenging but still fun and not overly expensive.
    during off season we are doing less wars as we are focusing on recruiting and dont want to risk a loss and starting in t7.
  • HulksmasshhHulksmasshh Member Posts: 742 ★★★
    CoatHang3r wrote: »
    Alliances intentionally manipulate WR in order to give themselves an unfair advantage during the season by increasing the likelihood of matching lesser alliances while decreasing the likelihood of matching alliances where they would normal face at their level. In any sport this is condisdered cheating and it’s defined as sandbagging so GL trying to pull the wool over anyones eyes; it’s really no surprise to see people trying to argue it’s fair play because that is exactly the personality type that employs methods like sandbagging.

    https://www.learning-mind.com/sandbagging-tactic/

    “Sandbagging is used in competitive sports, careers and even social situations. It’s a form of manipulation used to gain the upper hand, and it’s subtly devious.
    I became familiar with sandbagging some years ago. This form of manipulation is unlike any other tactic used by narcissists and toxic individuals. In fact, this act of dominance is seen in the ranks of reputable people, just the same as what you might call the “low-life”. It’s used as a normal way to gain control of any given situation.

    Sandbagging is a marked characteristic of high and low Machs (Machiavellians). Nicollo Machiavelli, author of The Prince, in 1513, brought the act of sandbagging into the light. In his book, he promotes the idea of rising in pollical power, to eliminating those who would deem to be stronger, thus, gaining in strength among the weak, using all possible means.”

    That is the worse definition of sandbagging for this context and not at all related to the problem at hand.
  • JaffacakedJaffacaked Member Posts: 1,415 ★★★★
    edited February 2019
    A simple solution is not to have such a gap between season rewards tiers
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Member Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    Jaffacaked wrote: »
    A simple solution is not to have such a gap between season rewards tiers

    There isn't enough of a gap considering the difference in resource/time commitment the higher tiers take imo
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Member Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    I could basically sleep through a gold 1 season
  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Member Posts: 8,672 ★★★★★
    Drooped2 wrote: »
    MaatMan wrote: »
    @CoatHang3r where do you see that in terms of service?

    he doesnt say it is in TOS.
    but that does not mean it is not a form of cheating.
    it is by definition MANIPULATION.
    manipulating the system to gain an unfair advantage is cheating.
    even if you want to argue it is not against the rules,
    it is clearly unsportsman like behavior and against the spirit of the contest.

    You say that but in every sport I've ever watched in games or periods that dont matter the coach often benches the star players to save them for games that do matter.

    Tanking isn't benching the star player to rest them for games that matter. It's losing on purpose to play alliances you shouldn't be able to play instead of real competition when it does matter. The Rams could have won the superbowl if they were allowed to manipulate it so that they played the Jets instead of the Patriots lol.
  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Member Posts: 8,672 ★★★★★
    @CoatHang3r where do you see that in terms of service?

    Exploits are against the TOS. Gaming the system to manipulate your war rating to create mismatches is an exploit.
  • chmodchmod Member Posts: 10
    Let's all not get caught up in the 'what if's' and actually get this fixed. Anti-smurfing measures are not new and I'm sure Kabam is aware of the many different ways other games have fixed these issues.

    Ladder formats are always a grind. For those starting from scratch, it will take many matches and possibly even seasons to reach your peer/parity level. Keep in mind, you only gain +50 rating from winning an even matchup.

    @Kabam Miike

    1. To fix shell-swapping, implement a 'Personal War Rating' just like everyone has a personal Prestige rating.

    2. To fix off-season tanking, freeze the War Rating during off-season so alliances can reset/reload for the next season without advantage or penalty.


  • BadroseBadrose Member Posts: 779 ★★★
    Hey All,

    Just wanted to drop in to let you know that we understand how important this is to everybody, and that we are aware of the situation. Unfortunately, as you can all see from just the discussions here, it is not an easy one to solve. We don't want to implement anything that will punish Alliance's playing fairly and competitively.

    At this time, we don't have any plans that we're ready to implement, but are not ignoring this behaviour.

    Increase the useless rewards during the offseason and you will have every ally fighting to win.
  • CobsCobs Member Posts: 103
    Freeze war rating and all you’ll all be here next off season complaining about how everyone is using shells.

    They need Change how wars are scored, if you make it so a loss in tier1 is worth more then a win in tier2 then it stops shells and tanking. It doesnt stop teams from advancing during the season but it would give more accurate rewards to what people deserve. Make people care about there war rating. Right now scoring is broken imo and thats what people are taking advantage of.
  • JaffacakedJaffacaked Member Posts: 1,415 ★★★★
    @CoatHang3r where do you see that in terms of service?

    Exploits are against the TOS. Gaming the system to manipulate your war rating to create mismatches is an exploit.

    According to kabam support tanking is a perfectly legit tactic an in no way violates tos. It's not an exploit
  • JaffacakedJaffacaked Member Posts: 1,415 ★★★★
    Jaffacaked wrote: »
    A simple solution is not to have such a gap between season rewards tiers

    There isn't enough of a gap considering the difference in resource/time commitment the higher tiers take imo

    An that would only make things worse. Am not saying G1 should be close to same rewards as masters, but it should not be such a gap to P3. Same goes for master an P1, top 3 in master should definitely have a larger gap than the rest of master imo.
  • Tasty_Yum_YumsTasty_Yum_Yums Member Posts: 444 ★★★
    @CoatHang3r where do you see that in terms of service?

    Exploits are against the TOS. Gaming the system to manipulate your war rating to create mismatches is an exploit.

    If what you’re saying is true, we would see account suspensions/bans or some form of punishment. But we don’t, because this is not a violation of TOS.

    Again, ethical vs legal. Just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean it’s not legal.
  • AvdoAvdo Member Posts: 18
    If an alliance goes up against a tanking allinace they should have the right to report this and the team could take a look at it.. and it should result into some sort of penalty in the upcoming season .. like entlistment block or less points
  • MaatManMaatMan Member Posts: 958 ★★★
    Andrewkole wrote: »
    Just make every match count. No off-season. Just put a week AW break in-between seasons with no matches. Tanking would stop immediately and problem solved.

    would not stop shell alliances being used.
    and shell alliances are even worse.
    as they participate in wars during season with the shell ally it will take up a spot and take rewards away from a legfit ally.
    imagine being #20 gold 2 knowing that 40 allies in gold one are shell alliances used by greedy scheming top 100 alliances.

    imagine being glod #1 knowing there are some shell alliances collecting rewards in platinum 3 for body people in top allies.
    imagine being anywhere in gold 1 after having worked your backside off all season knowing that the same rewards are going to bodgy usless throwaway accounts in some low lifes shell alliance.
  • SiliyoSiliyo Member Posts: 1,458 ★★★★★
    All freezing war ratings will do is punish alliances trying to move up during offseason

    I think the reward of punishing many alliances tanking is more helpful than “punishing” the few alliances trying to move up
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,424 Guardian
    MaatMan wrote: »
    @CoatHang3r where do you see that in terms of service?

    he doesnt say it is in TOS.
    but that does not mean it is not a form of cheating.
    it is by definition MANIPULATION.
    manipulating the system to gain an unfair advantage is cheating.
    even if you want to argue it is not against the rules,
    it is clearly unsportsman like behavior and against the spirit of the contest.

    I haven’t said it’s not a form of cheating/manipulation. I’m pointing out that alliances are still in the right to do this tactic since it doesn’t violate TOS.

    In other words, it might not be ethical but it’s not illegal so how can kabam hand out punishment?

    In every game and competition, from video games to sports to everything else, there's always the presumption that conduct damaging to the game can be penalized. Even though that might be subjective, it is still considered a necessary avenue to regulate conduct that attempts to game the rules themselves. Just because something isn't *explicitly* listed as prohibited, doesn't mean it can't be penalized.

    However, for any player that thinks they can play rules-lawyer and beat the rules authors themselves (generally, this is a losing proposition) there are two clauses in the TOS that Kabam can use to deal with any player conduct they feel is inappropriate to reasonable fair play:
    • Use features of the Services for anything other than their intended purpose, including exploiting glitches for personal gain

    • Intentionally interfere with the operation or fair play of any Services including Services available through any third party platform, or any other user’s enjoyment of such Services

    *If* Kabam chooses to penalize tanking you can argue that tanking doesn't satisfy either condition, but the question is who are you going to argue with?
  • rwhackrwhack Member Posts: 1,058 ★★★
    This is created by Kabam's system. You are punished for having a high AW rating. You want a fix? Only top 20 rated teams are in tier one multiplier. Next 20 are are tier 2 etc.

    Problem solved. Also gets rid of shell swapping..
  • SandeepSSandeepS Member Posts: 1,252 ★★★★
    I'll provide 2 solutions, one I've seen posted already:
    1. Freeze the war rating out of season
    2. Add something to out of season winner rewards like 1 crystal that has, for example, a few t5b/ t2a shards/ 6* shards (does not need to be too many). This may sound too much but with a week between wars its a max of 3 wars which are impacted. Makes it worthwhile for the people participating.
  • HulksmasshhHulksmasshh Member Posts: 742 ★★★
    edited February 2019
    Even in the biggest sports and games, tanking is an issue. In the NFL, some teams will tank towards the end of the season to secure a higher draft pick. It’s not an easy behavior to fix, you can’t force people do things they don’t want to.

    Instead of focusing on punishing the tankers, Kabam should focus on incentivizing winners. I know this has been brought up before but a small portion of season rewards should be shifted into war victory rewards like:

    War victory bonus:
    6* shards 300 —> 450
    5* shards 630 —> 1000
    Loyalty 5800 —> 7500
    And improving the war victory crystal per tier (Tier 1 victory crystal, tier 2, etc)

    Keep the big rewards like T5B and war season crystals the same. Slightly reduce the 6* and 5* shards so alliances would roughly gain the same amount of shards as before over the course of season + season reward (even though season rewards are due a revamp). This might not completely deter tanking but give alliances more incentive to think twice.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Member Posts: 4,965 ★★★★★
    Even in the biggest sports and games, tanking is an issue. In the NFL, some teams will tank towards the end of the season to secure a higher draft pick. It’s not an easy behavior to fix, you can’t force people do things they don’t want to.
    You can’t force but you can certainly restrict, inhibit and/or penalize people attempting to manipulate the system.

    “Tanking” in MCOC is a misnomer that serves to confuse people.

  • DarthHaasDarthHaas Member Posts: 385 ★★
    The real issue here is reverse tanking.....

    We went into a war and everyone put good defenders in and tried to win the war. Don't they know its the off season. I dont want use potions and boosts. Its the off season can't we make a rule to not let alliances try to hard during off season. Maybe like if they place all defenders give other ally a boost. Or better yet if they are moving through the map to fast make the device crash so they lose some fights.

    Thanks!
  • John757John757 Member Posts: 1,086 ★★★
    DarthHaas wrote: »
    The real issue here is reverse tanking.....

    We went into a war and everyone put good defenders in and tried to win the war. Don't they know its the off season. I dont want use potions and boosts. Its the off season can't we make a rule to not let alliances try to hard during off season. Maybe like if they place all defenders give other ally a boost. Or better yet if they are moving through the map to fast make the device crash so they lose some fights.

    Thanks!

    You took that from me haha but for some reason my comments are gone from there
  • DarthHaasDarthHaas Member Posts: 385 ★★
    edited February 2019


    Oh haha didn't see it but glad we think the same!
  • John757John757 Member Posts: 1,086 ★★★
    Yeah I made a joke in another post and both comments about reverse tanking are gone.
  • DarthHaasDarthHaas Member Posts: 385 ★★
    hmmm some slick moderation maybe... I find it funny everyone is so outraged by this.
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