That's an effective breakdown. What it tells me is that the theory behind both of their steals is different. The act of rogue copying theoretically weakens the enemy so they lose the buff and cant refain it. With Loki he steals, but if he cant use it just throws it away. That *should* still trigger md. All the buffs listed in the breakdown are things that are either character specific or would need to be activated within the characters' programming for them to utilize it.
True Damage, Indestructible, Evade, True Strike and potentially Rout are not character specific. I am not sure if the Perfect Block Chance is specific just to Venom the Duck. Rogue & Loki should, in theory, be able to copy/steal and use those buffs. Rogue copied none of the buffs listed that she was tested against.
Vid was posted 2 weeks ago and I compiled an extensive list of all the buffs that we'd like to get some answers on. Can someone from Kabam please advise ?
Let's breakdown the video we're all talking about and ask these important questions.
1. Can this buff be copied by Rogue? 2. Can this buff be stolen by Loki? 3. Does this buff trigger mystic dispersion when it is removed or expires? 4. Is the interaction between this buff with Loki and/or Rogue bugged or does this need clarification by Kabam? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Listed below are the 10 buffs that are bugged or need clarification:
2:41 - True Damage buff (enemy: Corvus Glave) Rogue: Her L1 does not copy the buff Loki: His L1 and L3 removed the buff, but Loki did not steal True Damage
4:52 - Indestructible (enemy: Luke Cage) Rogue: Her L1 does not copy the buff Loki: His L1 steals this buff Can be stolen but not copied? Is this bugged?
5:53 - Klyntar Rage (enemy: Venom) Rogue: Her L1 does not copy the buff Loki: His L1 and L3 removed the buff, but Loki did not steal Klyntar Rage
6:53 - Cosmic Control Rod (enemy: Annhilus) Rogue: Her L1 does not copy the buff Loki: His L1 removed the buff, but Loki did not steal the Cosmic Control Rod
7:55 - Thanos Favor (enemy: Cull Obsidian) Rogue: Her L1 does not copy the buff Not tested with Loki
8:18 - Rout (enemy: Cull Obsidian) Not tested with Rogue Loki: His L3 removed the buff, but Loki did not steal the Rout buff
9:31 - Dimensional Link (enemy: Dormmamu) Rogue: Her L1 does not copy the buff Not tested with Loki
10:31 - Evade (enemy: Nightcrawler) Rogue: Her L1 does not copy the buff Loki: His L1 removed the buff, but Loki did not steal the Evade buff
11:14 - Perfect Block Chance(enemy: Venom The Duck) Rogue: Her L1 does not copy the buff Loki: His L1 removed the buff, but Loki did not steal the buff
11:39 - True Strike (enemy: Heimdal) Rogue: Her L1 does not copy the buff Loki: His L3 removed the buff, but Loki did not steal the True Strike buff
Although this is an issue for both champions, this is more problematic for Loki since he is not gaining the buffs stolen and would gain power from mystic dispersion if that mastery is active.
I think that buffs like corvus' true damage, Annihilus' cosmic rod, CO's rout and similar should be made passive because they were obviously designed just for them... furthermore rogue shouldn't be able to steal unstoppable/indestructible buffs because she can refresh them by simply hitting the opponent, that would make her too op and she could pretty much stay unstoppable/indestructible forever... I didn't have time to go through all the thread so apologies if this was already said
Frankly, making "passive" buffs is just another cheap way to nerf champs like Rogue & Loki & ... since that is their whole premise, to steal buffs.
They should be removed, it is either a buff or not, end of story.
We will soon get passive armor, where armor breaks fail, and other **** mechanics since Kabam wants to introduce new champs with these 'special' abilities so they can make more $$$.
It seems like barring the evasion buff, Kabam prevents champ specific buffs to be stolen. Klyntar mutation buff, Cosmic Rod, Thanos Favor, and Dimensional Link are specific to certain champions so it would seem strange for Rogue and Loki to steal those. I’m only guessing that was the design choice to not be able to steal unique buffs like these as it wouldn’t really make sense. I mean why should Loki and Rogue be granted Thanos Favor?
Nice breakdown @MikeHock . Those are valid points. In general, there's a difference between Buffs and Passive effects. In CERTAIN instances however, I think a few of those Buffs are champ specific and maybe that's why. A generalized Buff can be stolen vs a champ specific, like that of the Klyntar Buff from Venom (and other Symbiotes). Perhaps that can't be copied or stolen simply because the champ trying to copy/steal it isn't a Symbiote. Just some insight as to MAYBE why this is.
Other examples like Dimensional Link with Dormammu is a Buff tied to his abilities. It would be useless to either champ (Rogue/Loki). That'd be like a blind person stealing prescription glasses. They'd be useful for aesthetic purposes only. Cull Obsidian with Thanos' Favor, that doesn't seem like it would work either. Now NC's ability to Evade, that should be able to be copied/stolen. ESPECIALLY by Rogue. That's his mutant shtick, and she COPIES mutant powers. Luke Cage's indestructible... again should be able to be gained by either. So there are instances where this SHOULD work and doesn't by all logic. But some of those make sense as to why they don't work.
Nice breakdown @MikeHock . Those are valid points. In general, there's a difference between Buffs and Passive effects. In CERTAIN instances however, I think a few of those Buffs are champ specific and maybe that's why. A generalized Buff can be stolen vs a champ specific, like that of the Klyntar Buff from Venom (and other Symbiotes). Perhaps that can't be copied or stolen simply because the champ trying to copy/steal it isn't a Symbiote. Just some insight as to MAYBE why this is.
Other examples like Dimensional Link with Dormammu is a Buff tied to his abilities. It would be useless to either champ (Rogue/Loki). That'd be like a blind person stealing prescription glasses. They'd be useful for aesthetic purposes only. Cull Obsidian with Thanos' Favor, that doesn't seem like it would work either. Now NC's ability to Evade, that should be able to be copied/stolen. ESPECIALLY by Rogue. That's his mutant shtick, and she COPIES mutant powers. Luke Cage's indestructible... again should be able to be gained by either. So there are instances where this SHOULD work and doesn't by all logic. But some of those make sense as to why they don't work.
It doesn’t matter that Loki can’t use the dimensional link (or any other buff). He should be able to steal it from Dormammu, preventing that buff and triggering mystic dispersion (if the mastery is active).
Nice breakdown @MikeHock . Those are valid points. In general, there's a difference between Buffs and Passive effects. In CERTAIN instances however, I think a few of those Buffs are champ specific and maybe that's why. A generalized Buff can be stolen vs a champ specific, like that of the Klyntar Buff from Venom (and other Symbiotes). Perhaps that can't be copied or stolen simply because the champ trying to copy/steal it isn't a Symbiote. Just some insight as to MAYBE why this is.
Other examples like Dimensional Link with Dormammu is a Buff tied to his abilities. It would be useless to either champ (Rogue/Loki). That'd be like a blind person stealing prescription glasses. They'd be useful for aesthetic purposes only. Cull Obsidian with Thanos' Favor, that doesn't seem like it would work either. Now NC's ability to Evade, that should be able to be copied/stolen. ESPECIALLY by Rogue. That's his mutant shtick, and she COPIES mutant powers. Luke Cage's indestructible... again should be able to be gained by either. So there are instances where this SHOULD work and doesn't by all logic. But some of those make sense as to why they don't work.
It doesn’t matter that Loki can’t use the dimensional link (or any other buff). He should be able to steal it from Dormammu, preventing that buff and triggering mystic dispersion (if the mastery is active).
Loki does remove the buffs thus preventing them, however the buffs cannot be used by him so giving them to him does nothing. Shoot from the hip much?
People don’t even know what they are arguing about at this point; but that isn’t surprising given the source material (video) doesn’t get it right in the first place.
Nice breakdown @MikeHock . Those are valid points. In general, there's a difference between Buffs and Passive effects. In CERTAIN instances however, I think a few of those Buffs are champ specific and maybe that's why. A generalized Buff can be stolen vs a champ specific, like that of the Klyntar Buff from Venom (and other Symbiotes). Perhaps that can't be copied or stolen simply because the champ trying to copy/steal it isn't a Symbiote. Just some insight as to MAYBE why this is.
Other examples like Dimensional Link with Dormammu is a Buff tied to his abilities. It would be useless to either champ (Rogue/Loki). That'd be like a blind person stealing prescription glasses. They'd be useful for aesthetic purposes only. Cull Obsidian with Thanos' Favor, that doesn't seem like it would work either. Now NC's ability to Evade, that should be able to be copied/stolen. ESPECIALLY by Rogue. That's his mutant shtick, and she COPIES mutant powers. Luke Cage's indestructible... again should be able to be gained by either. So there are instances where this SHOULD work and doesn't by all logic. But some of those make sense as to why they don't work.
It doesn’t matter that Loki can’t use the dimensional link (or any other buff). He should be able to steal it from Dormammu, preventing that buff and triggering mystic dispersion (if the mastery is active).
Loki does remove the buffs thus preventing them, however the buffs cannot be used by him so giving them to him does nothing. Shoot from the hip much?
People don’t even know what they are arguing about at this point; but that isn’t surprising given the source material (video) doesn’t get it right in the first place.
This can be argued about for weeks (and apparently it has been) the fact is this is just Kabams way of phasing out the whole "buff stealing" champs thing. The guy in the video is right they changed some buffs to passive and ones that should be stolen can't because they're champion specific (they don't want you to steal them.) Can u give me a good reason why Things furies are passive instead of buffs? Because Kabam doesn't want you to steal them. Its not even as complex as people want it to be
Would it make them hit harder? Yes, but that was the intention when they gave him and Rouge the ability and I'm more than sure compared to champs like Corvus, Ghost and Cull he wouldn't be OP. This has more than likely been the cycle for a while (introduce a champion then phase him out in some way for the newer ones) so I'm not even shocked
Nice breakdown @MikeHock . Those are valid points. In general, there's a difference between Buffs and Passive effects. In CERTAIN instances however, I think a few of those Buffs are champ specific and maybe that's why. A generalized Buff can be stolen vs a champ specific, like that of the Klyntar Buff from Venom (and other Symbiotes). Perhaps that can't be copied or stolen simply because the champ trying to copy/steal it isn't a Symbiote. Just some insight as to MAYBE why this is.
Other examples like Dimensional Link with Dormammu is a Buff tied to his abilities. It would be useless to either champ (Rogue/Loki). That'd be like a blind person stealing prescription glasses. They'd be useful for aesthetic purposes only. Cull Obsidian with Thanos' Favor, that doesn't seem like it would work either. Now NC's ability to Evade, that should be able to be copied/stolen. ESPECIALLY by Rogue. That's his mutant shtick, and she COPIES mutant powers. Luke Cage's indestructible... again should be able to be gained by either. So there are instances where this SHOULD work and doesn't by all logic. But some of those make sense as to why they don't work.
It doesn’t matter that Loki can’t use the dimensional link (or any other buff). He should be able to steal it from Dormammu, preventing that buff and triggering mystic dispersion (if the mastery is active).
Loki does remove the buffs thus preventing them, however the buffs cannot be used by him so giving them to him does nothing. Shoot from the hip much?
People don’t even know what they are arguing about at this point; but that isn’t surprising given the source material (video) doesn’t get it right in the first place.
I highlighted 10 buffs that are having questionable interactions. Loki vs Dormmamu wasn't one of them and I didn't test it either, but that doesn't detract from my post showcasing the issues with buffs that aren't being stolen or copied (and their interaction with mystic dispersion).
Nice breakdown @MikeHock . Those are valid points. In general, there's a difference between Buffs and Passive effects. In CERTAIN instances however, I think a few of those Buffs are champ specific and maybe that's why. A generalized Buff can be stolen vs a champ specific, like that of the Klyntar Buff from Venom (and other Symbiotes). Perhaps that can't be copied or stolen simply because the champ trying to copy/steal it isn't a Symbiote. Just some insight as to MAYBE why this is.
Other examples like Dimensional Link with Dormammu is a Buff tied to his abilities. It would be useless to either champ (Rogue/Loki). That'd be like a blind person stealing prescription glasses. They'd be useful for aesthetic purposes only. Cull Obsidian with Thanos' Favor, that doesn't seem like it would work either. Now NC's ability to Evade, that should be able to be copied/stolen. ESPECIALLY by Rogue. That's his mutant shtick, and she COPIES mutant powers. Luke Cage's indestructible... again should be able to be gained by either. So there are instances where this SHOULD work and doesn't by all logic. But some of those make sense as to why they don't work.
It doesn’t matter that Loki can’t use the dimensional link (or any other buff). He should be able to steal it from Dormammu, preventing that buff and triggering mystic dispersion (if the mastery is active).
Loki does remove the buffs thus preventing them, however the buffs cannot be used by him so giving them to him does nothing. Shoot from the hip much?
People don’t even know what they are arguing about at this point; but that isn’t surprising given the source material (video) doesn’t get it right in the first place.
This can be argued about for weeks (and apparently it has been) the fact is this is just Kabams way of phasing out the whole "buff stealing" champs thing. The guy in the video is right they changed some buffs to passive and ones that should be stolen can't because they're champion specific (they don't want you to steal them.) Can u give me a good reason why Things furies are passive instead of buffs? Because Kabam doesn't want you to steal them. Its not even as complex as people want it to be
Would it make them hit harder? Yes, but that was the intention when they gave him and Rouge the ability and I'm more than sure compared to champs like Corvus, Ghost and Cull he wouldn't be OP. This has more than likely been the cycle for a while (introduce a champion then phase him out in some way for the newer ones) so I'm not even shocked
The argument is Loki’s description says it “steals ANY of the opponents buffs” on sp3... doesn’t say “passive or active”, doesn’t say that are “unique to specific champs”, and doesn’t say “except the ones that would make them too op”. Seriously arguing that some can’t be stolen because they’re too good?!! 😂😂😂😂. That may be the reasoning they did it, it doesn’t make it a sound reason or argument though. ANY BUFFS. Can’t say ANY BUFFS stolen on sp3 for Loki and then pick and choose which ones. Sometimes just have to admit that kabam is wrong.... I know it’s hard for some to let go of that bone.
Introduction of passive bs pretty much killed rogue, loki, ronan, vodoo and every mystic champ of that time except maybe Magik
Loki got me through a lot of uncollected bosses with a lot of buffs a while back. I still use Rogue and Voodoo. So at least some of the Marvel Zombies are still useful.
Comments
True Damage, Indestructible, Evade, True Strike and potentially Rout are not character specific. I am not sure if the Perfect Block Chance is specific just to Venom the Duck. Rogue & Loki should, in theory, be able to copy/steal and use those buffs. Rogue copied none of the buffs listed that she was tested against.
Let's breakdown the video we're all talking about and ask these important questions.
1. Can this buff be copied by Rogue?
2. Can this buff be stolen by Loki?
3. Does this buff trigger mystic dispersion when it is removed or expires?
4. Is the interaction between this buff with Loki and/or Rogue bugged or does this need clarification by Kabam?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Listed below are the 10 buffs that are bugged or need clarification:
2:41 - True Damage buff (enemy: Corvus Glave)
Rogue: Her L1 does not copy the buff
Loki: His L1 and L3 removed the buff, but Loki did not steal True Damage
4:52 - Indestructible (enemy: Luke Cage)
Rogue: Her L1 does not copy the buff
Loki: His L1 steals this buff
Can be stolen but not copied? Is this bugged?
5:53 - Klyntar Rage (enemy: Venom)
Rogue: Her L1 does not copy the buff
Loki: His L1 and L3 removed the buff, but Loki did not steal Klyntar Rage
6:53 - Cosmic Control Rod (enemy: Annhilus)
Rogue: Her L1 does not copy the buff
Loki: His L1 removed the buff, but Loki did not steal the Cosmic Control Rod
7:55 - Thanos Favor (enemy: Cull Obsidian)
Rogue: Her L1 does not copy the buff
Not tested with Loki
8:18 - Rout (enemy: Cull Obsidian)
Not tested with Rogue
Loki: His L3 removed the buff, but Loki did not steal the Rout buff
9:31 - Dimensional Link (enemy: Dormmamu)
Rogue: Her L1 does not copy the buff
Not tested with Loki
10:31 - Evade (enemy: Nightcrawler)
Rogue: Her L1 does not copy the buff
Loki: His L1 removed the buff, but Loki did not steal the Evade buff
11:14 - Perfect Block Chance(enemy: Venom The Duck)
Rogue: Her L1 does not copy the buff
Loki: His L1 removed the buff, but Loki did not steal the buff
11:39 - True Strike (enemy: Heimdal)
Rogue: Her L1 does not copy the buff
Loki: His L3 removed the buff, but Loki did not steal the True Strike buff
Although this is an issue for both champions, this is more problematic for Loki since he is not gaining the buffs stolen and would gain power from mystic dispersion if that mastery is active.
They should be removed, it is either a buff or not, end of story.
We will soon get passive armor, where armor breaks fail, and other **** mechanics since Kabam wants to introduce new champs with these 'special' abilities so they can make more $$$.
Did u bring ur towel??
@Kabam Vydious
@Kabam Zibiit
@Kabam Lyra
@Kabam Porthos
Please do explain this video is valid proof of the game isnt right just wood like some insight is all
Other examples like Dimensional Link with Dormammu is a Buff tied to his abilities. It would be useless to either champ (Rogue/Loki). That'd be like a blind person stealing prescription glasses. They'd be useful for aesthetic purposes only. Cull Obsidian with Thanos' Favor, that doesn't seem like it would work either. Now NC's ability to Evade, that should be able to be copied/stolen. ESPECIALLY by Rogue. That's his mutant shtick, and she COPIES mutant powers. Luke Cage's indestructible... again should be able to be gained by either. So there are instances where this SHOULD work and doesn't by all logic. But some of those make sense as to why they don't work.
Nothing
People don’t even know what they are arguing about at this point; but that isn’t surprising given the source material (video) doesn’t get it right in the first place.
Would it make them hit harder? Yes, but that was the intention when they gave him and Rouge the ability and I'm more than sure compared to champs like Corvus, Ghost and Cull he wouldn't be OP. This has more than likely been the cycle for a while (introduce a champion then phase him out in some way for the newer ones) so I'm not even shocked