1) Great move Kabam, this is what we needed. Some communication. A clear post, explaining it clearly to everyone. Well done
2) Android user here, I have parry-dex issues just like iOS. You mentioned that Android crashes are gonna get fixed in 2 next updates, which I appreciate, but I am certain the timings are off. This month, due to the objectives, I played the game more than usually and I can say with certainty, that the timings are off and inputs are being dropped (the latter may be caused by the said memory stuff, yes). Are you then ABSOLUTELY sure that the problem is iOS only? I know you said you will be getting more Tapsalots, so please make sure to test with some Android device as well.
3) I'd like to express that I support you guys at Kabam, I understand these are hard times and while for me it is just a game I can uninstall, for many of you this is a source of money for you and your families.
1 thing I didn't like is how the original post intended that the issue is IOS specific only. This is wrong. I am facing the same issue on my android phone and nothing is mentioned in the OG post about android.
No, you’re not. It would be impossible for you to be experiencing the same issue as iOS has, because Android Unity doesn’t contain that problem. Android players may still be experiencing *a* problem, but they cannot be experiencing the same problem.
I think it is important for people to understand the technical elements of the situation. No one reported intra-frame timing aliasing issues. People reported “it doesn’t feel right.” People have been reporting “it doesn’t feel right” for as long as I’ve been on the forums, constantly, every day, every version. What made this different was the widespread synchronicity of the problem reports, which made the devs take a much closer look. But even though they were looking carefully, they still saw nothing wrong with the game. It is almost impossible to find “doesn’t feel right” in testing. But because the reports persisted at a far higher frequency than normal, they kept digging, and that’s when they found the Unity issue. But that issue only impacts iOS, at least so far as they know. Since they can now measure what that change is doing on iOS, they can *assume* that the frame aliasing that is occurring is the cause of the “doesn’t feel right” reports on iOS.
At the moment, there is no specific cause they’ve identified that would cause analogous issues on Android. That doesn’t mean there isn’t an Android issue, but if they can’t find a probable cause and they can’t measure it, they can’t fix it. So they are going to fix what they can first.
Their statement doesn’t say there’s no problem on Android. It says the problem they found does not affect Android, and thus the fix for it won’t affect Android either way. There *are* completely separate issues that affect both platforms, the memory leaks that appear to exist on both platforms. The fixes for those leaks should benefit both platforms. In what specific way is complicated to predict. Certainly, this will reduce or eliminate most of the crashing. But resource management and exhaustion problems can also cause game stuttering, where the game appears to “not work” for brief moments. This can cause dropped inputs at times, and it can cause dropped frames at times. This can cause issues that can sometimes *look* on the surface like the iOS timing issue, but are totally different. Whether the memory leak patches address all of those problems on Android no one can say right now. But there’s probably no point in searching for a problem that might not exist, until you first see if the changes you’re already going to make either eliminate the existing symptoms or change them in a way that better clarifies what the problem might be.
@Kabam Miike Sir Tapsalot looks like a baby version of Apple’s Horizon Machines. Those beasts were used to confirm new displays were responding within Apple’s calibration spec. They were phased out in favour of software-based calibration, so maybe there’s a way to get one and repurpose it for testing. At the very least, there may be technical resources available somewhere that speak to the part of the platform you are testing from since it is at the hardware/OS level.
I appreciate the info though most of it is over my dumb blue collar head but I have two questions:
Why is the AQ/AW compensation expiring? I would've thought that the stash/expiry date would be extended if this is what is given to compensate the issues.
Where's the solo comp? Is running paths in act 6 for a cav deemed less important than weak war or map2 AQ?
Just gonna make a few comments here. 1. Very puzzled when you say this is an IOS problem, because from what I've seen its actually Android users who say they are most affected by this.
2. The game stutterering, or gamefreeze started for me only after the parry bug patch was released, and its been horrible since. Game freeze up for anywhere between half a second and a second except the other day when it took half apocs special 1 before it actually started moving again.
3. Why are there only health potions and revives for aq and aw beeing given out? As far as I'm aware the issue is just as bad in normal quests, and a lot of people saying they wont do any quest exploration these days because of it. So atm you are only actually giving out potions for the part of the game that feels most like a job, and not for the part of the game that people should be enjoying.
4. Was doing EQ yesterday on Cav difficulty and all parries were working fine. But when I swapped over to do 100% on UC difficulty only 2 out of the first 8 parries actually stuck. And the fact that you're saying its a IOS issue is something I find strange seeing as im playing on Android, and I'm pretty sure my skills didnt suddenly drop by that much between changing up those two quests.
They said next week we should be receiving a solo care package, that should take care of some potions and revives.
I appreciate the info though most of it is over my dumb blue collar head but I have two questions:
Why is the AQ/AW compensation expiring? I would've thought that the stash/expiry date would be extended if this is what is given to compensate the issues.
Where's the solo comp? Is running paths in act 6 for a cav deemed less important than weak war or map2 AQ?
1. Because they never extended the cap or remove the expiration on items. 2. Next week.
Just gonna make a few comments here. 1. Very puzzled when you say this is an IOS problem, because from what I've seen its actually Android users who say they are most affected by this.
What they’re saying is there are two issues.
The larger parry/dex timing issue is specific to iOS only. It literally hasn’t changed anything in the android operating system so there is 0 chance, nada, that the android users are experiencing the parry/dex timing issue.
However, Miike also says that there is the secondary issue of lagging and stuttering, and they believe that this is what is causing android players to have parry dex issues.
The difference is that IOS players have the Parry dex issue. Android players have a Parry dex issue.
They hope to fix this stuttering and lagging in 32.3 and 33.0, which should take care of the parry and dex issues for android players if (as they suspect) the parry dex issues are caused by the stuttering and lagging. But for iOS players, the unity problem won’t be fixed for another few months.
They aren’t saying you don’t have any issues, they’re saying you don’t have THE issue.
I want to say a huge thankyou to the team for sharing this. Fantastic info, very clear , very concise, no emotive rubbish of “hold on with us , please keep spending “etc, just cold hard useful facts, love it! Treats us like adults instead of idiots, I hope this style of info can continue long term.
It validates our concerns and even better shows you guys have got a good grip on root cause issues, which is music to my ears. Thanks!
Really appreciate knowing we have 2 separate simultaneous issues, makes much more sense, and even better allows me to stop thinking I might have some kind of crazy motor control deficiency which has slowed my reactions so badly I can’t even play a video game.
Also the explanation makes total sense which is great: We all know MCOC plays 2nd rate on Android, the Android devices need the users input of a swipe to have started travelling across the screen before registering as a swipe rather than a tap. IOS has always felt solid and responsive in comparison as the swipe is recognised as soon as the users thumb starts to move, so dex triggers instantaneously instead of a after a pause. Moving this dex earlier from this engine bug fix causes confusion as the on screen action and input are disjointed, and hence the whole game feels is unresponsive and overall just not fun and engaging.
Also proves why in SOP final week I was frustratingly totally incapable of dexing a special based on on-screen contact point and had to push my timing earlier, just like the parry timing being shifted way before on screen hit box contact point. Problem of course is now I try to push my dex early as a dirty fix, and often go way too soon getting special attacked in the face trying to guess the new timing. If there is even a hope of regaining the old timing that’s great news and may save me quitting MCOC. As if we are stuck with the new timing forever there’s no way I’ll be playing this game, it’s just not got that fun feeling , which is the whole reason I picked this game up 6 years ago.
Some feedback: One big concern I have is : I picked up that the game felt weird within 15 mins of playing when the new update came out. Therefore: If it was indeed so obvious to a very average player, surely this update issue should have picked up straight away by a QA test? Maybe you guys knew and there was no other option but to push it live. But rather than hide it , or assume it’ll all be okay and we won’t notice, instead maybe some upfront warnings/info would have been appreciated so we didn’t have to go through all this rubbish for the last few months of wondering what on earth was broken. Just some words of advice for the next time you have a tech issue…
Bravo on the post, very brave to share info with the community, huge applause for it. Good luck for the fix, any progress is appreciated to help get this game fun again.
Obviously doesn’t excuse other issues in the game, like the recent horror of torturing us with incredibly tedious objective based side events, … sigh…but let’s fix one thing at a time. We’ll get there. Let’s make MCOC fun again!
I'm an IOS player. I'm not happy about my options for normal game play (wait til 2022 for final fix or switch to Android). I truly hope the iterations along the way to the final fix are significant enough for me to have a good "FEEL" long before 2022.
iOS only issue my ass..... Are you saying your update made me forget how to play by installing?
iOS is the only device they have tested. They were saying that they know it occurs on iSO. They haven't tested any of the 10000 different Andriod devices yet.
I think every single andriod user out there agree and see the issue. Some worse than others I am sure. I for one feel the pain and flustration with you on my Samsung s20 ultra.
It’s been a little while since we’ve communicated on the ongoing Control issues, and today we wanted to give you all a different kind of post, where we’ll explore the cause of the issue, what it entails, and the progress we’ve made on our journey so far in addressing the inconsistencies and changes in control timing.
We also want to take a moment to better outline what the issue actually is, as we know there’s some confusion surrounding the exact symptoms of this issue. We’ve seen players reporting issues such as framerate drops or lag that are not related to this issue, and are being addressed separately with some fixes coming your way soon.
We also want to give you more insight into why this process is taking some time to address, why it’s difficult to address issues based on “feel”, and introduce you to a new member of our team!
Hello I just want to point out that I am an android user and I definitely have an issue with parry and dex. It's not consistent, it's not each and every fight, but it is there. It may come once every 100 fights (I grind the arena daily) or it can also come twice in a row as I enter aq. I don't understand a single thing about coding and game engine, I'm just saying you should take a better look into android interactions as well. Because if all you're working on is fixing the timing for apple devices, then I may never be able to rely on parry and dex as well as before. I mean... as far as arena goes, if I fail 2 parries in a row and get hit by 2-3 combos, I still survive and I have a way to come back. But when it comes to endgame content or even more importantly aw... I mean what am I supposed to do exactly? If I get comboes 2-3 times I may just die without being able to do anything. And same goes with dex issue. I fail to dex a special, I just die. This is an important issue to address. It's not just ios, it's android too. I can safely say that when the issue first popped out all my alliance mates playing on ios were affected while android users (myself included) weren't noticing any issues. I mean the difference was clear: ios players were saying the game was unplayable while us android players were fine. Ever since the first patch to fix the issue, I started noticing that sometimes my parry window was off. And the same goes for other android users. I believe that maybe the fix that was pushed through had an effect on all devices. I can't see another possible explanation. I play the game several hours a day and I can safely say that I can go on for hours without failing a parry but then again I know that at some point I will touch the screen to parry with the same timing as ever, as I do countless times everyday, and the parry will indeed fail. Knowing this, I've tried to adapt my gameplay to rely less heavily on parry and more on intercepting, but that too proves risky and doesn't necessarily pay off as much as I'd like to. Also, there are abilities and node interactions that pretty much force you to parry (i.e. playing against evade or miss champions without a proper counter, nodes such as icarus and flux dispersal...). As for dexing, the timing is occasionally off. This summer I had my first run in the abyss. I remember the howard the duck fight was long and I can't dex his sp2. So I was just always dexing his sp1, pushing him to sp1 and baiting. Always. I baited and dexed dunno how many of his sp1. But sometimes I would just stand there as if I wasn't dexing. And get hit in the face. This with howard the duck sp1 also happened a few times in aq or eq. I mean it's really easy to dodge but sometimes I swipe and I just stand there and get hit.
Also something else I want to report is that from my testing in the last months since the issue appeared I find that most of the failed parries are on the opponent's medium dash. I somehow have less troubles to parry a light attack when I'm close to the opponent. This is because the moment he moves I just tap to parry and it works. On medium dashes, sometimes my input is late and sometimes it's early. So I either get caught off guard and take a combo, or I get hit on the block. Either way fighting champs that require to parry their medium has proved more troublesome. On my old phone I had a lag in my inputs and the issue was different. In fact I couldn't parry a light, since my input wouldn't come in time and I'd get hit. Instead, I'd be able to parry a medium dash by anticipating it. This was a matter of lag in my control inputs. When I bought a new phone I had no troubles anymore. For example I couldn't properly use captain marvel movie on my old device... doing 12-13 parries to charge her was a nightmare. With the new phone I used her a lot and I came to love her. Now, since the issue came out, I have her sitting on the bench. I ranked up other champs that rely less on parry for the sake of my items stash and my units stash.
All this to say that android users are also suffering an issue with parry and dex. It may be less frequent than with ios, I don't know... but I don't want to think that Kabam will only work towards fixing ios version of the game. All this time I've been hopeful that the next update the issue would be resolved. And now I'm reading that you're not even convinced there's an issue on android to begin with? That's really horrible to find out... Basically I'll have to spend more than others to do endgame content and I won't be reliable in aq/aw because anytime I could just miss a parry and die? And what about an alliance then? Should there be a purge of android users if you want to push? Because only ios users will be able to rely on their inputs? This is not good for the health of the community and the game
They don't care about android issues because they're harder to solve & smaller community. Funny how every other game can optimise for both, but mcoc can't. We moan for years about the issues- nothing.. iOS has an issue it's the end of humanity.
From one android user to another allow me to assist with the oversimplification many seem to have about this issue...
1.They pointed out that android is having a SIMILAR issue but that is a memory leak that'll be patched with the next two updates.
2. IOS is a bigger issue because to fix it, they HAVE TO BUILD IT AGAIN FROM SCRATCH.
3. There is no benefit for any mobile game to be loyal to one type of OS because that's potentially alienating half the planet. No major business would ever fundamentally prefer that. No small business would intentionally want that. Please try to see this from all angles and don't fall into this belief that it's a conspiracy against anyone.
@rockykoston to continue our conversation here, I’m not saying the unity engine only updated for IOS. I’m saying that update only caused the parry dex issue for IOS and not Android. I’d encourage you to read the entire post again, because I’m afraid you’ve misunderstood that aspect. I don’t mean that in a patronising way, just that if you think Kabam are saying Android players don’t have an issue with parry or dex, then you haven’t read the whole thing.
Please read it again, but I’ll direct you to this part which explains the IOS issues.
“ When we refer to the “Parry and Dex issue”, we’re not actually talking about an issue with Parry or Dex, but a framerate and control input issue exclusive to iOS devices that is most noticeable when trying to Parry or Dex, since these are two mechanics players rely on quite often.
Marvel Contest of Champions is built on a 3rd Party Game Engine built by our partners at Unity, which has an input system built-in. We’ve relied on Unity's input system since the game was built, and have regularly updated the Engine as they have released updates. With the most recent update to the Engine, a bug was fixed where iOS devices had been operating at the device’s own frame rate, instead of being capped to 30fps as it was set to. This meant that iOS devices had a slightly different input window than Android devices, but this was never identified.
Since this is how iOS devices had always worked with our game since launch, we had built game interactions around that input window. Now, because this bug in the engine has been fixed, it changed the input window of inputs for all iOS devices and pushed back the input window by mere milliseconds, but that is enough that it is noticeable when playing the game.
This is the issue that we are working to address, and our fix for it is to integrate an entirely new control input system from our partners at Unity. But this is not a quick or easy task.”
Only the IOS input window was pushed back, therefore it cannot be the cause of the Android issues.
Sry, but my English is not so good, so I can’t understand few things. I’m iOS user, so can someone tell me, will they fix the lag and stuttering issue? I’m using iPhone XR, and FPS and stuttering is the top issue for me right now, because game unplayable for me. If they fix this, can I ask when? I found some issues will fix October and November update, and other in 2022. Tnx
Sry, but my English is not so good, so I can’t understand few things. I’m iOS user, so can someone tell me, will they fix the lag and stuttering issue? I’m using iPhone XR, and FPS and stuttering is the top issue for me right now, because game unplayable for me. If they fix this, can I ask when? I found some issues will fix October and November update, and other in 2022. Tnx
I have a bit of trouble digesting this whole “feel” thing .. if i can consistently produce the “bug”, how is it just a feel thing?
I think all it means is that they couldn’t definitively find the problem by feel alone. They mention that in the beta test they gave half the players a fix, and half the control with no fix. And the results were inconclusive because players were asked to “feel” whether it was wrong. 61% of the players with the fix said it was better, 63% without the fix said it was better.
Android users even said the fix was better or worse. And this shows that it was a psychological change, not anything measurable.
All it means is that this test they tried didn’t work. It would be like a coffee company testing a new coffee and giving the test group a new one, and a control group the old one then, the control group says that their coffee tastes better than before, even though it’s the same coffee.
They’re not saying the bug is just a feel thing, the feel direction was one way they tried to solve it, and in the end decided it wouldn’t work. They then decided to create the robot Sir Tapsalot, to give them something to actually measure.
So instead of asking you or me whether we felt like parry was better or worse, they made the robot that can map when the window of input for parry is.
Yeah, I'm an iOS player and I definitely felt like Player B at the beginning and could tell something was really off but I feel like I have adjusted to Player A because I rarely experience the issues I was originally having anymore (and adjustment likely due to me just playing too much 😅).
Still get some lag/frame drop & numerous daily game crashes but happy to hear that will be fixed in the Asset Memory leak correction 🤘🏼
@rockykoston to continue our conversation here, I’m not saying the unity engine only updated for IOS. I’m saying that update only caused the parry dex issue for IOS and not Android. I’d encourage you to read the entire post again, because I’m afraid you’ve misunderstood that aspect. I don’t mean that in a patronising way, just that if you think Kabam are saying Android players don’t have an issue with parry or dex, then you haven’t read the whole thing.
Please read it again, but I’ll direct you to this part which explains the IOS issues.
“ When we refer to the “Parry and Dex issue”, we’re not actually talking about an issue with Parry or Dex, but a framerate and control input issue exclusive to iOS devices that is most noticeable when trying to Parry or Dex, since these are two mechanics players rely on quite often.
Marvel Contest of Champions is built on a 3rd Party Game Engine built by our partners at Unity, which has an input system built-in. We’ve relied on Unity's input system since the game was built, and have regularly updated the Engine as they have released updates. With the most recent update to the Engine, a bug was fixed where iOS devices had been operating at the device’s own frame rate, instead of being capped to 30fps as it was set to. This meant that iOS devices had a slightly different input window than Android devices, but this was never identified.
Since this is how iOS devices had always worked with our game since launch, we had built game interactions around that input window. Now, because this bug in the engine has been fixed, it changed the input window of inputs for all iOS devices and pushed back the input window by mere milliseconds, but that is enough that it is noticeable when playing the game.
This is the issue that we are working to address, and our fix for it is to integrate an entirely new control input system from our partners at Unity. But this is not a quick or easy task.”
Only the IOS input window was pushed back, therefore it cannot be the cause of the Android issues.
Either they've not tested enough or they're afraid to acknowledge that Unity update is affecting android devices.
Now you'd ask why would they not accept it, because of the sheer variety of android devices, models, OS etc. They've never really been able to fix the android issue so if this is the same thing then it's nothing new.
iOS is clearly much easier to identify and fix because of the small environment.
But the fact that they are dismissing android as a generic lag and stutter is what they've been doing forever.
The fact that android now has configurable screen refresh rate with phones going UpTo 144hz and no update to make that compatible, tells us everything.
@rockykoston to continue our conversation here, I’m not saying the unity engine only updated for IOS. I’m saying that update only caused the parry dex issue for IOS and not Android. I’d encourage you to read the entire post again, because I’m afraid you’ve misunderstood that aspect. I don’t mean that in a patronising way, just that if you think Kabam are saying Android players don’t have an issue with parry or dex, then you haven’t read the whole thing.
Please read it again, but I’ll direct you to this part which explains the IOS issues.
“ When we refer to the “Parry and Dex issue”, we’re not actually talking about an issue with Parry or Dex, but a framerate and control input issue exclusive to iOS devices that is most noticeable when trying to Parry or Dex, since these are two mechanics players rely on quite often.
Marvel Contest of Champions is built on a 3rd Party Game Engine built by our partners at Unity, which has an input system built-in. We’ve relied on Unity's input system since the game was built, and have regularly updated the Engine as they have released updates. With the most recent update to the Engine, a bug was fixed where iOS devices had been operating at the device’s own frame rate, instead of being capped to 30fps as it was set to. This meant that iOS devices had a slightly different input window than Android devices, but this was never identified.
Since this is how iOS devices had always worked with our game since launch, we had built game interactions around that input window. Now, because this bug in the engine has been fixed, it changed the input window of inputs for all iOS devices and pushed back the input window by mere milliseconds, but that is enough that it is noticeable when playing the game.
This is the issue that we are working to address, and our fix for it is to integrate an entirely new control input system from our partners at Unity. But this is not a quick or easy task.”
Only the IOS input window was pushed back, therefore it cannot be the cause of the Android issues.
Either they've not tested enough or they're afraid to acknowledge that Unity update is affecting android devices.
Now you'd ask why would they not accept it, because of the sheer variety of android devices, models, OS etc. They've never really been able to fix the android issue so if this is the same thing then it's nothing new.
iOS is clearly much easier to identify and fix because of the small environment.
But the fact that they are dismissing android as a generic lag and stutter is what they've been doing forever.
The fact that android now has configurable screen refresh rate with phones going UpTo 144hz and no update to make that compatible, tells us everything.
Ok, well I don’t think spreading conspiracy theories and claiming Kabam is lying is going to help anyone. They’ve said what they’ve said, they have no reason to lie.
With the sheer number of people who use Android, do you honestly believe they'd intentionally alienate them? I mean, that's not even logical. And yes, it's more difficult to optimize a plethora of devices running it. That much they've been upfront about for years. What they're saying is the updates should improve both, but what they discovered was there were separate issues going on. With 2 different platforms, that's not unheard of. This conspiracy that they don't care about Android users is as old as the Legends program.
@rockykoston to continue our conversation here, I’m not saying the unity engine only updated for IOS. I’m saying that update only caused the parry dex issue for IOS and not Android. I’d encourage you to read the entire post again, because I’m afraid you’ve misunderstood that aspect. I don’t mean that in a patronising way, just that if you think Kabam are saying Android players don’t have an issue with parry or dex, then you haven’t read the whole thing.
Please read it again, but I’ll direct you to this part which explains the IOS issues.
“ When we refer to the “Parry and Dex issue”, we’re not actually talking about an issue with Parry or Dex, but a framerate and control input issue exclusive to iOS devices that is most noticeable when trying to Parry or Dex, since these are two mechanics players rely on quite often.
Marvel Contest of Champions is built on a 3rd Party Game Engine built by our partners at Unity, which has an input system built-in. We’ve relied on Unity's input system since the game was built, and have regularly updated the Engine as they have released updates. With the most recent update to the Engine, a bug was fixed where iOS devices had been operating at the device’s own frame rate, instead of being capped to 30fps as it was set to. This meant that iOS devices had a slightly different input window than Android devices, but this was never identified.
Since this is how iOS devices had always worked with our game since launch, we had built game interactions around that input window. Now, because this bug in the engine has been fixed, it changed the input window of inputs for all iOS devices and pushed back the input window by mere milliseconds, but that is enough that it is noticeable when playing the game.
This is the issue that we are working to address, and our fix for it is to integrate an entirely new control input system from our partners at Unity. But this is not a quick or easy task.”
Only the IOS input window was pushed back, therefore it cannot be the cause of the Android issues.
Either they've not tested enough or they're afraid to acknowledge that Unity update is affecting android devices.
Now you'd ask why would they not accept it, because of the sheer variety of android devices, models, OS etc. They've never really been able to fix the android issue so if this is the same thing then it's nothing new.
iOS is clearly much easier to identify and fix because of the small environment.
But the fact that they are dismissing android as a generic lag and stutter is what they've been doing forever.
The fact that android now has configurable screen refresh rate with phones going UpTo 144hz and no update to make that compatible, tells us everything.
We've worked directly with Unity and are sharing our Android data with them. As far as we and our Partners can see, the issue does not exist on Android because the bug fix was for iOS only. However, as we continue to share data with Unity, they may tell us differently.
We do believe that the input refactor will make control consistent across both platforms, so even if there is an issue that we just can't see, it would fix it on Android as well (in theory). We're still working on this and will continue to discover more as we develop the system.
@rockykoston to continue our conversation here, I’m not saying the unity engine only updated for IOS. I’m saying that update only caused the parry dex issue for IOS and not Android. I’d encourage you to read the entire post again, because I’m afraid you’ve misunderstood that aspect. I don’t mean that in a patronising way, just that if you think Kabam are saying Android players don’t have an issue with parry or dex, then you haven’t read the whole thing.
Please read it again, but I’ll direct you to this part which explains the IOS issues.
“ When we refer to the “Parry and Dex issue”, we’re not actually talking about an issue with Parry or Dex, but a framerate and control input issue exclusive to iOS devices that is most noticeable when trying to Parry or Dex, since these are two mechanics players rely on quite often.
Marvel Contest of Champions is built on a 3rd Party Game Engine built by our partners at Unity, which has an input system built-in. We’ve relied on Unity's input system since the game was built, and have regularly updated the Engine as they have released updates. With the most recent update to the Engine, a bug was fixed where iOS devices had been operating at the device’s own frame rate, instead of being capped to 30fps as it was set to. This meant that iOS devices had a slightly different input window than Android devices, but this was never identified.
Since this is how iOS devices had always worked with our game since launch, we had built game interactions around that input window. Now, because this bug in the engine has been fixed, it changed the input window of inputs for all iOS devices and pushed back the input window by mere milliseconds, but that is enough that it is noticeable when playing the game.
This is the issue that we are working to address, and our fix for it is to integrate an entirely new control input system from our partners at Unity. But this is not a quick or easy task.”
Only the IOS input window was pushed back, therefore it cannot be the cause of the Android issues.
Either they've not tested enough or they're afraid to acknowledge that Unity update is affecting android devices.
Now you'd ask why would they not accept it, because of the sheer variety of android devices, models, OS etc. They've never really been able to fix the android issue so if this is the same thing then it's nothing new.
iOS is clearly much easier to identify and fix because of the small environment.
But the fact that they are dismissing android as a generic lag and stutter is what they've been doing forever.
The fact that android now has configurable screen refresh rate with phones going UpTo 144hz and no update to make that compatible, tells us everything.
Ok, well I don’t think spreading conspiracy theories and claiming Kabam is lying is going to help anyone. They’ve said what they’ve said, they have no reason to lie.
Never said they're lying.
There's a slight difference between what I've said and lying.
It's not the same to not have tested or researching the root cause and simply saying that this engine update does not affect android.
It's very much possible that for now their efforts have been focused on iOS and that's the root cause they've found for but for Android due to the huge number of scenarios, they've AGAIN clubbed it into a generic lag/stutter bug.
There's a Android lag thread that's been going on forever, which is what kabam is referring to here again.
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2) Android user here, I have parry-dex issues just like iOS. You mentioned that Android crashes are gonna get fixed in 2 next updates, which I appreciate, but I am certain the timings are off. This month, due to the objectives, I played the game more than usually and I can say with certainty, that the timings are off and inputs are being dropped (the latter may be caused by the said memory stuff, yes). Are you then ABSOLUTELY sure that the problem is iOS only? I know you said you will be getting more Tapsalots, so please make sure to test with some Android device as well.
3) I'd like to express that I support you guys at Kabam, I understand these are hard times and while for me it is just a game I can uninstall, for many of you this is a source of money for you and your families.
I think it is important for people to understand the technical elements of the situation. No one reported intra-frame timing aliasing issues. People reported “it doesn’t feel right.” People have been reporting “it doesn’t feel right” for as long as I’ve been on the forums, constantly, every day, every version. What made this different was the widespread synchronicity of the problem reports, which made the devs take a much closer look. But even though they were looking carefully, they still saw nothing wrong with the game. It is almost impossible to find “doesn’t feel right” in testing. But because the reports persisted at a far higher frequency than normal, they kept digging, and that’s when they found the Unity issue. But that issue only impacts iOS, at least so far as they know. Since they can now measure what that change is doing on iOS, they can *assume* that the frame aliasing that is occurring is the cause of the “doesn’t feel right” reports on iOS.
At the moment, there is no specific cause they’ve identified that would cause analogous issues on Android. That doesn’t mean there isn’t an Android issue, but if they can’t find a probable cause and they can’t measure it, they can’t fix it. So they are going to fix what they can first.
Their statement doesn’t say there’s no problem on Android. It says the problem they found does not affect Android, and thus the fix for it won’t affect Android either way. There *are* completely separate issues that affect both platforms, the memory leaks that appear to exist on both platforms. The fixes for those leaks should benefit both platforms. In what specific way is complicated to predict. Certainly, this will reduce or eliminate most of the crashing. But resource management and exhaustion problems can also cause game stuttering, where the game appears to “not work” for brief moments. This can cause dropped inputs at times, and it can cause dropped frames at times. This can cause issues that can sometimes *look* on the surface like the iOS timing issue, but are totally different. Whether the memory leak patches address all of those problems on Android no one can say right now. But there’s probably no point in searching for a problem that might not exist, until you first see if the changes you’re already going to make either eliminate the existing symptoms or change them in a way that better clarifies what the problem might be.
Why is the AQ/AW compensation expiring? I would've thought that the stash/expiry date would be extended if this is what is given to compensate the issues.
Where's the solo comp? Is running paths in act 6 for a cav deemed less important than weak war or map2 AQ?
2. Next week.
The larger parry/dex timing issue is specific to iOS only. It literally hasn’t changed anything in the android operating system so there is 0 chance, nada, that the android users are experiencing the parry/dex timing issue.
However, Miike also says that there is the secondary issue of lagging and stuttering, and they believe that this is what is causing android players to have parry dex issues.
The difference is that IOS players have the Parry dex issue. Android players have a Parry dex issue.
They hope to fix this stuttering and lagging in 32.3 and 33.0, which should take care of the parry and dex issues for android players if (as they suspect) the parry dex issues are caused by the stuttering and lagging. But for iOS players, the unity problem won’t be fixed for another few months.
They aren’t saying you don’t have any issues, they’re saying you don’t have THE issue.
I want to say a huge thankyou to the team for sharing this. Fantastic info, very clear , very concise, no emotive rubbish of “hold on with us , please keep spending “etc, just cold hard useful facts, love it! Treats us like adults instead of idiots, I hope this style of info can continue long term.
It validates our concerns and even better shows you guys have got a good grip on root cause issues, which is music to my ears. Thanks!
Really appreciate knowing we have 2 separate simultaneous issues, makes much more sense, and even better allows me to stop thinking I might have some kind of crazy motor control deficiency which has slowed my reactions so badly I can’t even play a video game.
Also the explanation makes total sense which is great: We all know MCOC plays 2nd rate on Android, the Android devices need the users input of a swipe to have started travelling across the screen before registering as a swipe rather than a tap. IOS has always felt solid and responsive in comparison as the swipe is recognised as soon as the users thumb starts to move, so dex triggers instantaneously instead of a after a pause. Moving this dex earlier from this engine bug fix causes confusion as the on screen action and input are disjointed, and hence the whole game feels is unresponsive and overall just not fun and engaging.
Also proves why in SOP final week I was frustratingly totally incapable of dexing a special based on on-screen contact point and had to push my timing earlier, just like the parry timing being shifted way before on screen hit box contact point.
Problem of course is now I try to push my dex early as a dirty fix, and often go way too soon getting special attacked in the face trying to guess the new timing.
If there is even a hope of regaining the old timing that’s great news and may save me quitting MCOC. As if we are stuck with the new timing forever there’s no way I’ll be playing this game, it’s just not got that fun feeling , which is the whole reason I picked this game up 6 years ago.
Some feedback:
One big concern I have is : I picked up that the game felt weird within 15 mins of playing when the new update came out.
Therefore: If it was indeed so obvious to a very average player, surely this update issue should have picked up straight away by a QA test?
Maybe you guys knew and there was no other option but to push it live. But rather than hide it , or assume it’ll all be okay and we won’t notice, instead maybe some upfront warnings/info would have been appreciated so we didn’t have to go through all this rubbish for the last few months of wondering what on earth was broken.
Just some words of advice for the next time you have a tech issue…
Bravo on the post, very brave to share info with the community, huge applause for it.
Good luck for the fix, any progress is appreciated to help get this game fun again.
Obviously doesn’t excuse other issues in the game, like the recent horror of torturing us with incredibly tedious objective based side events, … sigh…but let’s fix one thing at a time. We’ll get there. Let’s make MCOC fun again!
I think every single andriod user out there agree and see the issue. Some worse than others I am sure. I for one feel the pain and flustration with you on my Samsung s20 ultra.
My newer One plus8t has much lesser issues compared to my older One Plus5t
From one android user to another allow me to assist with the oversimplification many seem to have about this issue...
1.They pointed out that android is having a SIMILAR issue but that is a memory leak that'll be patched with the next two updates.
2. IOS is a bigger issue because to fix it, they HAVE TO BUILD IT AGAIN FROM SCRATCH.
3. There is no benefit for any mobile game to be loyal to one type of OS because that's potentially alienating half the planet. No major business would ever fundamentally prefer that. No small business would intentionally want that. Please try to see this from all angles and don't fall into this belief that it's a conspiracy against anyone.
Please read it again, but I’ll direct you to this part which explains the IOS issues.
“ When we refer to the “Parry and Dex issue”, we’re not actually talking about an issue with Parry or Dex, but a framerate and control input issue exclusive to iOS devices that is most noticeable when trying to Parry or Dex, since these are two mechanics players rely on quite often.
Marvel Contest of Champions is built on a 3rd Party Game Engine built by our partners at Unity, which has an input system built-in. We’ve relied on Unity's input system since the game was built, and have regularly updated the Engine as they have released updates. With the most recent update to the Engine, a bug was fixed where iOS devices had been operating at the device’s own frame rate, instead of being capped to 30fps as it was set to. This meant that iOS devices had a slightly different input window than Android devices, but this was never identified.
Since this is how iOS devices had always worked with our game since launch, we had built game interactions around that input window. Now, because this bug in the engine has been fixed, it changed the input window of inputs for all iOS devices and pushed back the input window by mere milliseconds, but that is enough that it is noticeable when playing the game.
This is the issue that we are working to address, and our fix for it is to integrate an entirely new control input system from our partners at Unity. But this is not a quick or easy task.”
Only the IOS input window was pushed back, therefore it cannot be the cause of the Android issues.
October and November for lag/stutter.
Android users even said the fix was better or worse. And this shows that it was a psychological change, not anything measurable.
All it means is that this test they tried didn’t work. It would be like a coffee company testing a new coffee and giving the test group a new one, and a control group the old one then, the control group says that their coffee tastes better than before, even though it’s the same coffee.
They’re not saying the bug is just a feel thing, the feel direction was one way they tried to solve it, and in the end decided it wouldn’t work. They then decided to create the robot Sir Tapsalot, to give them something to actually measure.
So instead of asking you or me whether we felt like parry was better or worse, they made the robot that can map when the window of input for parry is.
Still get some lag/frame drop & numerous daily game crashes but happy to hear that will be fixed in the Asset Memory leak correction 🤘🏼
I just don't believe it.
Either they've not tested enough or they're afraid to acknowledge that Unity update is affecting android devices.
Now you'd ask why would they not accept it, because of the sheer variety of android devices, models, OS etc. They've never really been able to fix the android issue so if this is the same thing then it's nothing new.
iOS is clearly much easier to identify and fix because of the small environment.
But the fact that they are dismissing android as a generic lag and stutter is what they've been doing forever.
The fact that android now has configurable screen refresh rate with phones going UpTo 144hz and no update to make that compatible, tells us everything.
What they're saying is the updates should improve both, but what they discovered was there were separate issues going on. With 2 different platforms, that's not unheard of. This conspiracy that they don't care about Android users is as old as the Legends program.
We do believe that the input refactor will make control consistent across both platforms, so even if there is an issue that we just can't see, it would fix it on Android as well (in theory). We're still working on this and will continue to discover more as we develop the system.
There's a slight difference between what I've said and lying.
It's not the same to not have tested or researching the root cause and simply saying that this engine update does not affect android.
It's very much possible that for now their efforts have been focused on iOS and that's the root cause they've found for but for Android due to the huge number of scenarios, they've AGAIN clubbed it into a generic lag/stutter bug.
There's a Android lag thread that's been going on forever, which is what kabam is referring to here again.