I don't think there's a simple way to make it universal across multiple Ranks and Rarities.
Fairness is percentages. That's all that should matter
Fair for who?
Everyone.... you get the same percent back as everyone else tada..
No, you pay more Units to get less Health back for lower Rarities. People who, let's face it, need it more and have less Resources on average.
Who needs it more or who has more has aboslutly nothing to do with fairness.
What you get for what you pay has everything to do with equality. Currently everyone gets 6000 HP for 1 potion who’s unit value is 100. Under a percentage system that same 100 units would go half as far for the same champion at 5/50 compared to a 5/65.
Now if you break down how far that health will go in terms of potential DPS Fair would actually cost you twice as much, keep on with the “fairness” you might end up paying double.
Fine then let's change boosts percentage there is just as unfair. Your 5/65 gets way more then a 5/50
A flat rate would make boost either over powered or under powered, should prolly stay a percentage. Should 5/50s somehow get a rebate when boosted or should 5/65s be subject to a surcharge?
Percentage isnt fair your own arguements.
Sp the boost needs a flat rate. I just want perfect fairness you proved your point on heals but boosts need to be addressed to be fair 3 stars should get the same boost as 6s. My unit value needs to be the same as everyone elses right?
I’m not following. Fairness is largely subjective so I cannot see it being prefect when the equation includes more than two parties. Not sure MCOC is where we should focus on building your utopia. If the value needs to be the same 5/65s should be paying more, is that what you want?
You should pay the same foe the same value I'm told. So a 30 percent boost cant exist in that.
It's pretty simple if heals can only be fair because they are same hp gained per unit then boosts need to hold the same standard
Boosts cannot be used mutliple times to have a stacking effect like a health potion can. Are you saying we should only get one health potion that lasts for x minutes? That would be a downgrade, specially if you have still have the second half of your path to tackle and you need to heal up while boosts are going. That would double the ammount of pots you need for that champion. Having doubts about this uoptia.
I don't think there's a simple way to make it universal across multiple Ranks and Rarities.
Fairness is percentages. That's all that should matter
Fair for who?
Everyone.... you get the same percent back as everyone else tada..
No, you pay more Units to get less Health back for lower Rarities. People who, let's face it, need it more and have less Resources on average.
Who needs it more or who has more has aboslutly nothing to do with fairness.
What you get for what you pay has everything to do with equality. Currently everyone gets 6000 HP for 1 potion who’s unit value is 100. Under a percentage system that same 100 units would go half as far for the same champion at 5/50 compared to a 5/65.
Now if you break down how far that health will go in terms of potential DPS Fair would actually cost you twice as much, keep on with the “fairness” you might end up paying double.
Fine then let's change boosts percentage there is just as unfair. Your 5/65 gets way more then a 5/50
A flat rate would make boost either over powered or under powered, should prolly stay a percentage. Should 5/50s somehow get a rebate when boosted or should 5/65s be subject to a surcharge?
Percentage isnt fair your own arguements.
Sp the boost needs a flat rate. I just want perfect fairness you proved your point on heals but boosts need to be addressed to be fair 3 stars should get the same boost as 6s. My unit value needs to be the same as everyone elses right?
I’m not following. Fairness is largely subjective so I cannot see it being prefect when the equation includes more than two parties. Not sure MCOC is where we should focus on building your utopia. If the value needs to be the same 5/65s should be paying more, is that what you want?
You should pay the same foe the same value I'm told. So a 30 percent boost cant exist in that.
It's pretty simple if heals can only be fair because they are same hp gained per unit then boosts need to hold the same standard
Boosts cannot be used mutliple times to have a stacking effect like a health potion can. Are you saying we should only get one health potion that lasts for x minutes? That would be a downgrade, specially if you have still have the second half of your path to tackle and you need to heal up while boosts are going. That would double the ammount of pots you need for that champion. Having doubts about this uoptia.
What are you talking about?
I'm simply saying a boost that Grant's your max 5 say 900 attack (I'm not mathing each champ)
Grant's a 4 like 300 attack for the same cost.
If unit values need to be equal on purchase for health. Ie why you say the 6k health pot is fine
Boosts need the same standard of each unit to each attack no matter a champs base stat
Your r5 already gets ton more value out of a health pot so I’m not really following the logic that boosts are somehow different as r5s also get a ton more value comparatively. So this leads back to my question about boosts, should 5/50s somehow get a rebate or increase when using them or should 5/65s somehow get a decrease or surcharge when using them?
And isn’t this thread about health pots anyways? Here we are trying to tweak the boosts, smells fishy; red herring anyone?
I don't think there's a simple way to make it universal across multiple Ranks and Rarities.
Fairness is percentages. That's all that should matter
Fair for who?
Everyone.... you get the same percent back as everyone else tada..
No, you pay more Units to get less Health back for lower Rarities. People who, let's face it, need it more and have less Resources on average.
Who needs it more or who has more has aboslutly nothing to do with fairness.
What you get for what you pay has everything to do with equality. Currently everyone gets 6000 HP for 1 potion who’s unit value is 100. Under a percentage system that same 100 units would go half as far for the same champion at 5/50 compared to a 5/65.
Now if you break down how far that health will go in terms of potential DPS Fair would actually cost you twice as much, keep on with the “fairness” you might end up paying double.
Fine then let's change boosts percentage there is just as unfair. Your 5/65 gets way more then a 5/50
A flat rate would make boost either over powered or under powered, should prolly stay a percentage. Should 5/50s somehow get a rebate when boosted or should 5/65s be subject to a surcharge?
Percentage isnt fair your own arguements.
Sp the boost needs a flat rate. I just want perfect fairness you proved your point on heals but boosts need to be addressed to be fair 3 stars should get the same boost as 6s. My unit value needs to be the same as everyone elses right?
I’m not following. Fairness is largely subjective so I cannot see it being prefect when the equation includes more than two parties. Not sure MCOC is where we should focus on building your utopia. If the value needs to be the same 5/65s should be paying more, is that what you want?
You should pay the same foe the same value I'm told. So a 30 percent boost cant exist in that.
It's pretty simple if heals can only be fair because they are same hp gained per unit then boosts need to hold the same standard
Boosts cannot be used mutliple times to have a stacking effect like a health potion can. Are you saying we should only get one health potion that lasts for x minutes? That would be a downgrade, specially if you have still have the second half of your path to tackle and you need to heal up while boosts are going. That would double the ammount of pots you need for that champion. Having doubts about this uoptia.
What are you talking about?
I'm simply saying a boost that Grant's your max 5 say 900 attack (I'm not mathing each champ)
Grant's a 4 like 300 attack for the same cost.
If unit values need to be equal on purchase for health. Ie why you say the 6k health pot is fine
Boosts need the same standard of each unit to each attack no matter a champs base stat
Your r5 already gets ton more value out of a health pot so I’m not really following the logic that boosts are somehow different as r5s also get a ton more value comparatively. So this leads back to my question about boosts, should 5/50s somehow get a rebate or increase when using them or should 5/65s somehow get a decrease or surcharge when using them?
And isn’t this thread about health pots anyways? Here we are trying to tweak the boosts, smells fishy; red herring anyone?
I'm literally just saying that all units be equal value for everyone the exact arguement you used for heals.
But somehow your against that for boosts.
Units aren’t equal for everyone as they go further when applied to the highest level characters. I’m saying lower ranked characters shouldn’t have to pay more than they already do or get less comparative value than they already do. Also you do not need to spend units for health as you can spend glory.
Boosts already have relatively less value for lower ranks, I’m not opposed to evening out the comparative value but should 5/50 get a rebate or bonus; or should 5/65 have a surcharge or penalty to even things out? Since you want perfect equality and all. I’m boost neutral here as that isn’t relative to health pots as they are elective for AW.
I mean if we want total equality shouldn’t health pots and boosts for 5/65s cost more so we can mimick this unit harmony you want? Not sure increasing the price is the right move.
You have two universal Base Stats for each Champ that are specific to them. Attack and Health. The object of the game is to remove Health using Attack. Now, all Abilities spawn out of those two Stats. Only Attack is affected by CR/DR. You can increase Attack, but there is only a finite number of Health, and all you can do is add it or take it away. Using Boosts, you can increase Health for a brief time, but Attack works differently. Attack goes through various magnifications and/or reductions depending on the Abilities, CR interaction, Synergies, etc. Those Abilities make the Champs unique in how they take away said Health from other Champs, but there's really only so much Health a Champ has. That's static. It's also set depending on the Rarity of the Champ and Rank. You can't make it equal for everyone because more or less either way is not equal. Using a Boost is a semi-permanent way to "boost" them. It's an additive. Adding Health literally adds it to the reservoir, right up until the natural limit. If that natural limit is less than the Pot, it's filled. That can have a universal price. It's a set amount for a set amount of Health. However, I can assure you that 10% of 1000 is not equal to 10% of 10,000.
God I hope this is making sense. I'm starting to confuse myself. Lol. I need sleep.
6k health is also far more valuable when you are fighting in silver on easier nodes vs. 3* and 4* defenders. But I also agree that people with lower champs shouldn't suddenly start getting less than 6k health from a L4 potion. I wonder why percentage potions are fair for quest revives but not other potions.
6k health is also far more valuable when you are fighting in silver on easier nodes vs. 3* and 4* defenders. But I also agree that people with lower champs shouldn't suddenly start getting less than 6k health from a L4 potion. I wonder why percentage potions are fair for quest revives but not other potions.
The price is also less. If I had to venture a guess, it's because Quest Pots only affect our own Champs, and War/AQ Pots affect everyone else as well. Just the first thing that comes to mind.
6k health is also far more valuable when you are fighting in silver on easier nodes vs. 3* and 4* defenders. But I also agree that people with lower champs shouldn't suddenly start getting less than 6k health from a L4 potion. I wonder why percentage potions are fair for quest revives but not other potions.
The price is also less. If I had to venture a guess, it's because Quest Pots only affect our own Champs, and War/AQ Pots affect everyone else as well. Just the first thing that comes to mind.
Or it's just inconsistent. Not sure what the price has to do with anything being discussed. Full energy refills are also more valuable for L60 players. Maybe they ought to provide a flat amount of energy...
6k health is also far more valuable when you are fighting in silver on easier nodes vs. 3* and 4* defenders. But I also agree that people with lower champs shouldn't suddenly start getting less than 6k health from a L4 potion. I wonder why percentage potions are fair for quest revives but not other potions.
The price is also less. If I had to venture a guess, it's because Quest Pots only affect our own Champs, and War/AQ Pots affect everyone else as well. Just the first thing that comes to mind.
Or it's just inconsistent. Not sure what the price has to do with anything being discussed. Full energy refills are also more valuable for L60 players. Maybe they ought to provide a flat amount of energy...
Technically they do add the same amount. It gives you 70 energy. Its just that lower level players have a lower cap and you arent able to go past that cap.
So it's kinda like taking a 2L bottle of water.
If you refill a new 2L you get a full bottle. But if you were to try and fill a smaller bottle the excess spills out and becomes unusable.
So essentially the energy refill does give everyone the same its just lvl 60 players have a proper Pint. Where as all the smaller playets have different sizes of glasses and are having theirs spill outwards.
Also by the logic that percentages are the fairest form of things. Then a government should tax everyone the same % since thats fair.
So tue guy who brings in 60k a year and the guy who brings in 22mil a year should both pay say 50% taxes.
So now guy 1 has 30k left to support his family
And guy 2 has 11mil left. Doesnt that sound fair.
6k health is also far more valuable when you are fighting in silver on easier nodes vs. 3* and 4* defenders. But I also agree that people with lower champs shouldn't suddenly start getting less than 6k health from a L4 potion. I wonder why percentage potions are fair for quest revives but not other potions.
The price is also less. If I had to venture a guess, it's because Quest Pots only affect our own Champs, and War/AQ Pots affect everyone else as well. Just the first thing that comes to mind.
Or it's just inconsistent. Not sure what the price has to do with anything being discussed. Full energy refills are also more valuable for L60 players. Maybe they ought to provide a flat amount of energy...
Technically they do add the same amount. It gives you 70 energy. Its just that lower level players have a lower cap and you arent able to go past that cap.
So it's kinda like taking a 2L bottle of water.
If you refill a new 2L you get a full bottle. But if you were to try and fill a smaller bottle the excess spills out and becomes unusable.
So essentially the energy refill does give everyone the same its just lvl 60 players have a proper Pint. Where as all the smaller playets have different sizes of glasses and are having theirs spill outwards.
Also by the logic that percentages are the fairest form of things. Then a government should tax everyone the same % since thats fair.
So tue guy who brings in 60k a year and the guy who brings in 22mil a year should both pay say 50% taxes.
So now guy 1 has 30k left to support his family
And guy 2 has 11mil left. Doesnt that sound fair.
No, the energy refills give you full energy, whatever that happens to be. A level 40 summoner is not getting 70 energy, some of which he can't use. He is getting his energy refilled to the max, which is less energy than others are getting. Your excess water analogy is fun but it's not really how this works. If it were that way, let's extend the analogy to a full health revive potion which costs the same for people with 3*s and people with 5* 5/65s. Do you think people would buy the water analogy? Everyone gets the same health but some spills out? Also I never said that percentage potions were the fairest, I just pointed out the inconsistency. But your tax analogy is just flat out wrong. Taxes are done by percentage but there are so many other dynamics at work the analogy breaks down very quickly. If the guy making 22 million had to face a max sig Korg which could take all of his money with one missed parry, and the guy making 60K had to deal with a 3* Colossus... it might not be unfair. But regardless, however you work the taxes the guy making 22 million is going to have more and it's hard to see a point of analogy between this and alliance potions.
I see what he's trying to say. I agree with the gist of it, but I also agree that Tax isn't the best comparison. The more you make, the more they take. At least here in Canada, anyway. There are higher Brackets. It's a kerfuffle. Lol.
6k health is also far more valuable when you are fighting in silver on easier nodes vs. 3* and 4* defenders. But I also agree that people with lower champs shouldn't suddenly start getting less than 6k health from a L4 potion. I wonder why percentage potions are fair for quest revives but not other potions.
The price is also less. If I had to venture a guess, it's because Quest Pots only affect our own Champs, and War/AQ Pots affect everyone else as well. Just the first thing that comes to mind.
Or it's just inconsistent. Not sure what the price has to do with anything being discussed. Full energy refills are also more valuable for L60 players. Maybe they ought to provide a flat amount of energy...
Energy isn't the same. You can't fill what you don't have capacity for. Whatever your limit is, that's what it fills. Right up to the highest. Cost is the same. That's fairly reasonable, actually. The alternative could be paying more for 70 Points.
6k health is also far more valuable when you are fighting in silver on easier nodes vs. 3* and 4* defenders. But I also agree that people with lower champs shouldn't suddenly start getting less than 6k health from a L4 potion. I wonder why percentage potions are fair for quest revives but not other potions.
The price is also less. If I had to venture a guess, it's because Quest Pots only affect our own Champs, and War/AQ Pots affect everyone else as well. Just the first thing that comes to mind.
Or it's just inconsistent. Not sure what the price has to do with anything being discussed. Full energy refills are also more valuable for L60 players. Maybe they ought to provide a flat amount of energy...
Energy isn't the same. You can't fill what you don't have capacity for. Whatever your limit is, that's what it fills. Right up to the highest. Cost is the same. That's fairly reasonable, actually. The alternative could be paying more for 70 Points.
It is reasonable. But it could be argued that it's unfair for the lower players. Much in the same way that a percentage heal is arguably unfair to lower players. Though they face lower enemies and run maps with lower energy cost. But if you are for the full energy refills and against percentage health potions, would a 40% health potion be unfair but a 100% health potion be fair? Fills your health right up to the highest. Cost is the same.
With all due respect to the lower tier players, the alliance potion issue mainly effects people in higher tiers of the game. If you're in a tier where your attackers are 4/40 4* characters or something along those lines, I genuinely don't think you have any say in this issue since you're most likely running war where the opponents are sooo significantly easy compared to what we at the top have to deal with.
So maybe it's "unfair" to that select group, however when the people who keep this game running, the ones who spend significant amounts on this game, grind the hardest content, play Tier 1, 2 or 3 wars, Map 6-7 etc, are spending hundreds of units at times just to heal up a single champion, I think it's only "fair" to adjust things accordingly.
An example would be if you ran a small business and the same customer came every week spending 500 dollars and another only came weekly spending 50, but the 500 dollar customer threatened to leave, who would you be more motivated to help?
Yes Kabam you should totally burden 99% of the player base with decreased potion values because a fraction of the 1% in tier 3 aw and up died using void and wants to heal to full while max boosted. See that 1% keeps the game a float right? I mean it’s not like the 1% are the actual select select group, and this % potion thing isn’t myside biased at all, like for sure ya know!
Enjoy the rank 5 health pots when they come around.
Yes Kabam you should totally burden 99% of the player base with decreased potion values because a fraction of the 1% in tier 3 aw and up died using void and wants to heal to full while max boosted. See that 1% keeps the game a float right? I mean it’s not like the 1% are the actual select select group, and this % potion thing isn’t myside biased at all, like for sure ya know!
Enjoy the rank 5 health pots when they come around.
It's hardly that extreme. There's 1500 alliances alone that are in Gold 1. That's 45k players who at some capacity face the issues I'm talking about. And yes, frankly, the people who are the core players, the ones who make Kabam all the money should have a larger say in the matter. And if you are a smaller player currently, you'll get to the point we're at eventually once you rank 4&5 your 5* champions.
The problem is, the alliance potion issue is inevitable and the more you progress into the game, the more costly the game becomes. So remember, all of you saying it's unfair to the lower tier players, that you'll reach this point eventually too and you'll realize just how much of a scam flat rate health potions are
Yes Kabam you should totally burden 99% of the player base with decreased potion values because a fraction of the 1% in tier 3 aw and up died using void and wants to heal to full while max boosted. See that 1% keeps the game a float right? I mean it’s not like the 1% are the actual select select group, and this % potion thing isn’t myside biased at all, like for sure ya know!
Enjoy the rank 5 health pots when they come around.
It's hardly that extreme. There's 1500 alliances alone that are in Gold 1. That's 45k players who at some capacity face the issues I'm talking about. And yes, frankly, the people who are the core players, the ones who make Kabam all the money should have a larger say in the matter. And if you are a smaller player currently, you'll get to the point we're at eventually once you rank 4&5 your 5* champions.
The problem is, the alliance potion issue is inevitable and the more you progress into the game, the more costly the game becomes. So remember, all of you saying it's unfair to the lower tier players, that you'll reach this point eventually too and you'll realize just how much of a scam flat rate health potions are
I’ve already passes that level. Playing teir 1-2 wars. Yes dieing sucks but flat rate potions are not a scam bc you pay the same for the same amount of health as everyone in the game
It's hardly that extreme. There's 1500 alliances alone that are in Gold 1. That's 45k players who at some capacity face the issues I'm talking about. And yes, frankly, the people who are the core players, the ones who make Kabam all the money should have a larger say in the matter. And if you are a smaller player currently, you'll get to the point we're at eventually once you rank 4&5 your 5* champions.
The problem is, the alliance potion issue is inevitable and the more you progress into the game, the more costly the game becomes. So remember, all of you saying it's unfair to the lower tier players, that you'll reach this point eventually too and you'll realize just how much of a scam flat rate health potions are
All or nothing, there can never be a middle ground (insert sarcasm emoji)
The solution is simple. But some people would rather argue than work towards a solution.
Potions heal X% or Y flat amount, whichever is higher. Low levels get the same use they do now, and they are no longer useless to high ranked champs.
But by all means, keep fighting amongst yourselves (and the same people who enter every thread just to be contrarian)
Still percentage isn’t even fair within the same teir wars. If you opponents champs have a bigger health pool that you then they will get more health for their units and also get more health for the 15 item limit you both have
Comments
And isn’t this thread about health pots anyways? Here we are trying to tweak the boosts, smells fishy; red herring anyone?
Boosts already have relatively less value for lower ranks, I’m not opposed to evening out the comparative value but should 5/50 get a rebate or bonus; or should 5/65 have a surcharge or penalty to even things out? Since you want perfect equality and all. I’m boost neutral here as that isn’t relative to health pots as they are elective for AW.
I mean if we want total equality shouldn’t health pots and boosts for 5/65s cost more so we can mimick this unit harmony you want? Not sure increasing the price is the right move.
God I hope this is making sense. I'm starting to confuse myself. Lol. I need sleep.
The price is also less. If I had to venture a guess, it's because Quest Pots only affect our own Champs, and War/AQ Pots affect everyone else as well. Just the first thing that comes to mind.
Or it's just inconsistent. Not sure what the price has to do with anything being discussed. Full energy refills are also more valuable for L60 players. Maybe they ought to provide a flat amount of energy...
Technically they do add the same amount. It gives you 70 energy. Its just that lower level players have a lower cap and you arent able to go past that cap.
So it's kinda like taking a 2L bottle of water.
If you refill a new 2L you get a full bottle. But if you were to try and fill a smaller bottle the excess spills out and becomes unusable.
So essentially the energy refill does give everyone the same its just lvl 60 players have a proper Pint. Where as all the smaller playets have different sizes of glasses and are having theirs spill outwards.
Also by the logic that percentages are the fairest form of things. Then a government should tax everyone the same % since thats fair.
So tue guy who brings in 60k a year and the guy who brings in 22mil a year should both pay say 50% taxes.
So now guy 1 has 30k left to support his family
And guy 2 has 11mil left. Doesnt that sound fair.
No, the energy refills give you full energy, whatever that happens to be. A level 40 summoner is not getting 70 energy, some of which he can't use. He is getting his energy refilled to the max, which is less energy than others are getting. Your excess water analogy is fun but it's not really how this works. If it were that way, let's extend the analogy to a full health revive potion which costs the same for people with 3*s and people with 5* 5/65s. Do you think people would buy the water analogy? Everyone gets the same health but some spills out? Also I never said that percentage potions were the fairest, I just pointed out the inconsistency. But your tax analogy is just flat out wrong. Taxes are done by percentage but there are so many other dynamics at work the analogy breaks down very quickly. If the guy making 22 million had to face a max sig Korg which could take all of his money with one missed parry, and the guy making 60K had to deal with a 3* Colossus... it might not be unfair. But regardless, however you work the taxes the guy making 22 million is going to have more and it's hard to see a point of analogy between this and alliance potions.
Energy isn't the same. You can't fill what you don't have capacity for. Whatever your limit is, that's what it fills. Right up to the highest. Cost is the same. That's fairly reasonable, actually. The alternative could be paying more for 70 Points.
It is reasonable. But it could be argued that it's unfair for the lower players. Much in the same way that a percentage heal is arguably unfair to lower players. Though they face lower enemies and run maps with lower energy cost. But if you are for the full energy refills and against percentage health potions, would a 40% health potion be unfair but a 100% health potion be fair? Fills your health right up to the highest. Cost is the same.
So maybe it's "unfair" to that select group, however when the people who keep this game running, the ones who spend significant amounts on this game, grind the hardest content, play Tier 1, 2 or 3 wars, Map 6-7 etc, are spending hundreds of units at times just to heal up a single champion, I think it's only "fair" to adjust things accordingly.
An example would be if you ran a small business and the same customer came every week spending 500 dollars and another only came weekly spending 50, but the 500 dollar customer threatened to leave, who would you be more motivated to help?
Enjoy the rank 5 health pots when they come around.
It's hardly that extreme. There's 1500 alliances alone that are in Gold 1. That's 45k players who at some capacity face the issues I'm talking about. And yes, frankly, the people who are the core players, the ones who make Kabam all the money should have a larger say in the matter. And if you are a smaller player currently, you'll get to the point we're at eventually once you rank 4&5 your 5* champions.
The problem is, the alliance potion issue is inevitable and the more you progress into the game, the more costly the game becomes. So remember, all of you saying it's unfair to the lower tier players, that you'll reach this point eventually too and you'll realize just how much of a scam flat rate health potions are
I’ve already passes that level. Playing teir 1-2 wars. Yes dieing sucks but flat rate potions are not a scam bc you pay the same for the same amount of health as everyone in the game
All or nothing, there can never be a middle ground (insert sarcasm emoji)
Potions heal X% or Y flat amount, whichever is higher. Low levels get the same use they do now, and they are no longer useless to high ranked champs.
But by all means, keep fighting amongst yourselves (and the same people who enter every thread just to be contrarian)
Still percentage isn’t even fair within the same teir wars. If you opponents champs have a bigger health pool that you then they will get more health for their units and also get more health for the 15 item limit you both have