Early Look: New Alliance Wars Maps - Discussion Thread

Hey Everybody!

We've got another Early Look for you all! This time, we're introducing brand new Maps for all Tiers of Alliance Wars!

We recently ran a Beta for Alliance Wars that featured a number of different Updates to the Mode, and our Beta Players offered us a wealth of feedback. We’ve parsed the data and feedback that we collected, and want to give you all a glimpse into our plans moving forward.

In our Beta, we updated the map and also introduced a new feature called “Defense Tactics”. The Map update introduced a new layout and new Buffs, while Defense Tactics allowed Alliance Leadership to choose a Global Buff to apply to the Map, which allows for Defenses to be more customizable and setup in a more meaningful way.

The feedback we received was that these two major changes together were quite jarring, and that it was too much all at once. We agree with this sentiment so we have decided to stagger the release of the Map update and the release of Defense Tactics (currently scheduled for Season 11).

Read all about the upcoming map changes in the Early Look here!

Comments

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SiriusBreak

Lol, I'm hearing I should avoid this fight overall. So far do not have a sinlge counter champ as a 5*. I'll be sure to pass the list of viable counters to that lane runner in my BG though. Medusa could work nicely.

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GroundedWisdom

I’ve posted a few times on other threads but until anything changes this garbage wars state of affairs I’m challenging everyone to just place garbage defenders in the off season. Let’s see how many guys can place defenders consisting of entirely Groot or DD, everyone has those garbage pulls they don’t use. Being able to view your roster by collections now and alphabetically makes it even easier, for example I’ve got 2* to 5* Groot plus 6* DD

How does that help anything?
My alliance is stressed out by this new war season Map. We’re having fun with it to try and keep the group together and avoid rage quits. That’s how it helps. It’s a silent protest also as we’ve seen boycotts don’t work. No one playing us will be forced to spend to clear the map which obviously was their intention in making this forced change so thereby defeats the purpose.

If everyone did this during season proper it would also surely have an effect on the Kabam coffers which is ultimately all they care about. As they don’t listen to the community and player base it seems

We've seen that come and fail. 2* Wars, Tanking, etc. It's not a solution to anything, and it creates more problems. If you're stressed, then play stress-free. You don't need to dummy the Defense to do that. You just don't stress out or go hard. Lol.
If you're having issues, it's more effective to communicate that than mess with the system. If you're that bothered, don't play it. I'm willing to bet they're taking in the feedback and looking at the data, so it's really not going to solve anything to do that. Just my two cents.

GroundedWisdom

Not to mention, that's not a protest so much as it sabotages the data so they can't see much of anything.

synergy247

Also, I would judge by the amount of alliances that skip war entirely in off season would also provide some data... if everyone does choose to give it a try like we did initially, can basically just do as much as they can and then just stop when KO’d.

Our alliance had some really heavy hitters and they are getting KO’d on very early nodes, which is the yardstick I measure by in terms of difficulty level. Guys who could clear whole paths with no deaths too.

GroundedWisdom

Also, I would judge by the amount of alliances that skip war entirely in off season would also provide some data... if everyone does choose to give it a try like we did initially, can basically just do as much as they can and then just stop when KO’d.

Our alliance had some really heavy hitters and they are getting KO’d on very early nodes, which is the yardstick I measure by in terms of difficulty level. Guys who could clear whole paths with no deaths too.

Sitting it out doesn't say much of anything. If they need to adjust it or scale it back, having no data to go on is pretty useless.

Madcat

Also, I would judge by the amount of alliances that skip war entirely in off season would also provide some data... if everyone does choose to give it a try like we did initially, can basically just do as much as they can and then just stop when KO’d.

Our alliance had some really heavy hitters and they are getting KO’d on very early nodes, which is the yardstick I measure by in terms of difficulty level. Guys who could clear whole paths with no deaths too.
Sitting it out doesn't say much of anything. If they need to adjust it or scale it back, having no data to go on is pretty useless.

No. Sitting out tells them they will get NOTHING. If people participate, it gives them hope that people will spend.

synergy247

Also, I would judge by the amount of alliances that skip war entirely in off season would also provide some data... if everyone does choose to give it a try like we did initially, can basically just do as much as they can and then just stop when KO’d.

Our alliance had some really heavy hitters and they are getting KO’d on very early nodes, which is the yardstick I measure by in terms of difficulty level. Guys who could clear whole paths with no deaths too.
Sitting it out doesn't say much of anything. If they need to adjust it or scale it back, having no data to go on is pretty useless.

Dude, say there are 800 alliances, all playing competively. Then all of a sudden there’s a huge drop to say 200 or even nil. Don’t you think that in and of itself would indicate a problem?

They didn’t listen to the beta feedback which has led to this sorry state of affairs

GroundedWisdom

Did I dispute the feedback people are giving? No. I said throwing Matches isn't a solution.
Bro where did I suggest you were disputing feedback? I’m simply asking have you personally tried the new maps to gauge the tough nodes? And if so have any feedback to give on the difficulty?
You're deflecting my comment with experience.
Lol you’re deflecting my question with a comment. Ok so if this isn’t a solution, what do you suggest? I’ve tried the new war map and so has my alliance and no one is happy.

So now that I’ve answered your question/comment, care to answer mine? If informed feedback is indeed the way to go.

Give your experience here. That's the solution. What did you and your Members have issues with? What were the problems? That's how you offer feedback. If you're just going to assume they're not listening and Tank, that's not really helping much.

synergy247

I’ve already commented on node 10 the aegis node, and plenty of others have also, plus there inverted controls and the unstoppable buffs etc etc

LeNoirFaineant

I’ve posted a few times on other threads but until anything changes this garbage wars state of affairs I’m challenging everyone to just place garbage defenders in the off season. Let’s see how many guys can place defenders consisting of entirely Groot or DD, everyone has those garbage pulls they don’t use. Being able to view your roster by collections now and alphabetically makes it even easier, for example I’ve got 2* to 5* Groot plus 6* DD

How does that help anything?

Honestly I think it would be more helpful to place regular defenders so they can see that people are struggling more than they anticipated. I suppose if everyone started placing 2*s that would have an effect also but that's really hard to accomplish. I thought all along that the update would turn out to be too much and that they would have to scale it back but we'll see.

GroundedWisdom

I’ve already commented on node 10 the aegis node, and plenty of others have also, plus there inverted controls and the unstoppable buffs etc etc

Ok, then give it time. They just went live and it's the weekend, nothing will come that quickly. Lol.

synergy247

I’ve already commented on node 10 the aegis node, and plenty of others have also, plus there inverted controls and the unstoppable buffs etc etc
Ok, then give it time. They just went live and it's the weekend, nothing will come that quickly. Lol.

Cool. So what nodes have you tried and had trouble with in the new war map?

LeNoirFaineant

Meant to respond to the previous post, not GW's reply.

GroundedWisdom

I’ve posted a few times on other threads but until anything changes this garbage wars state of affairs I’m challenging everyone to just place garbage defenders in the off season. Let’s see how many guys can place defenders consisting of entirely Groot or DD, everyone has those garbage pulls they don’t use. Being able to view your roster by collections now and alphabetically makes it even easier, for example I’ve got 2* to 5* Groot plus 6* DD

How does that help anything?
Honestly I think it would be more helpful to place regular defenders so they can see that people are struggling more than they anticipated. I suppose if everyone started placing 2*s that would have an effect also but that's really hard to accomplish. I thought all along that the update would turn out to be too much and that they would have to scale it back but we'll see.

We've seen in the past how that helps nothing. They have the data, they have the feedback here. 2* Wars lasted about a minute. Tanking led to other measures for Matchmaking. Compounding issues by taking things into our own hands never works. That's my point.

synergy247

We haven’t got all 2* defenders. But someone made the point on another thread re: the aegis node that even a 2* defender won’t take damage on the aegis node until all 9 charges are removed. So let’s see if I place a 2* defender on that node, I bet that he will get a kill just from timing out alone lol. Or a crappy 6* defender will likely get kills too just from the health pool and timeout.

We will prob go back to our normal full participation the next war if people are keen but right now we’re having more fun doing this lol. And it is meant to be a fun game after all. Rather let guys use their champs in event quests etc and dial it down for off season. After a certain amount of time beating your heads against a brick wall when no one is listening everyone needs to take a break from it

GroundedWisdom

I honestly don't know what the solution is. I don't know what their vision is for Season 11, and this Map is in tandem with that. Albeit released beforehand. I don't know if it's a matter of adjusting some of the Nodes, if it's a matter of people growing into it, if the Rewards coming in Season 11 are why it's amped up, I just don't know. On the surface, what seems more prudent would be to hold off on the new Map until people have adjusted to Defense Tactics. That's just my bipartisan view. We will have to see more info. What I do know is they'll be in this week, probably have been in this weekend off and on, and they will see the feedback. It's just a hurry up and wait situation at the moment.

plpkok

I enjoy a good debate and argument as much as the next. That being said, if instead of people attacking each other, they focused on what the topic happens to be at that time, it would be of benefit to the community.

synergy247

I honestly don't know what the solution is. I don't know what their vision is for Season 11, and this Map is in tandem with that. Albeit released beforehand. I don't know if it's a matter of adjusting some of the Nodes, if it's a matter of people growing into it, if the Rewards coming in Season 11 are why it's amped up, I just don't know. On the surface, what seems more prudent would be to hold off on the new Map until people have adjusted to Defense Tactics. That's just my bipartisan view. We will have to see more info. What I do know is they'll be in this week, probably have been in this weekend off and on, and they will see the feedback. It's just a hurry up and wait situation at the moment.

Ok then my advice to you would be to have your alliance trial a war at tier 3/4 with the new map and give it your best shot. Try some of the nodes and then come back and report some feedback on your experience and others in the alliance.

30 guys saying the same thing will count more. Either a full rollback like they did after a season of global buffs like bleed immunity or a major full scale adjustment to the entire map level of difficulty. It’s just ludicrous

bb_81

on a more lighter note, this new AW map and nodes are gonna help extend my alliance's streak of not being in an AW since Feb 2019. AW is way overrated, with poor returns for your hard work, time and effort. AQ is where it's at, of course this is just my humble opinion, a sentiment my ally mates and i fortunately share cheers

Ankalagonn

on a more lighter note, this new AW map and nodes are gonna help extend my alliance's streak of not being in an AW since Feb 2019. AW is way overrated, with poor returns for your hard work, time and effort. AQ is where it's at, of course this is just my humble opinion, a sentiment my ally mates and i fortunately share cheers

Makes sense. It's not worthy the effort for AW, for such poor diminished return of investment

TomBrady12

Honestly, AW is too expensive right now to be worth pushing. IMO the feed back of people not even trying should tel them how broken it is.

MEKA5

Terrible update. This will increase frustration in already burnt out players.
The difficulty increase without increasing the rewards makes no sense.
Some of the nodes are a nightmare.
Taking away the last grams of fun from AW...

Madcat

While the Maps are new, and getting used to something new is never without Challenge, there isn't really an intended bump to difficulty with this Map update.

I would really appreciate understanding how this comment can be true at all. Can someone from the mod team explain how there wasn't supposed to be a difficulty bump with the AW update? Maybe there is something I missed? Maybe I am using the wrong champs? R5 5*s are just not enough anymore and I need some R2 6*s? This is extremely frustrating, almost as much as being banned/warned for asking "why".

Rotelly

While the Maps are new, and getting used to something new is never without Challenge, there isn't really an intended bump to difficulty with this Map update.
.

@Kabam Miike I think your team missed the mark with this update if the intent was not to bump difficulty. Our most recent AW opponent had 119 deaths and only completed 1 out of 3 BGs. That is almost a 3x increase in deaths and reduction in map exploration. To me this appears that the goal was to increase difficulty and item usage.

We asked for new maps with and understand with change comes a slight increase in difficulty but this is not that and appears to be a money grab for items.

Please keep this in mind, if players don't feel they can win without spending units they won't play

Motivations were also affected: On progress days, people were more intrinsically motivated—by interest in and enjoyment of the work itself. On setback days, they were not only less intrinsically motivated but also less extrinsically motivated by recognition. Apparently, setbacks can lead a person to feel generally apathetic and disinclined to do the work at all.
.

https://hbr.org/2011/05/the-power-of-small-wins

SiriusBreak

Please, let's focus on the matter at hand. The new AW map. As it stands, it would seem the general consensus is that it's too much as is. Our Alliance is getting the full experience this time (ran into a tanking Alliance 1st run... next to no defenders placed). Already players are getting irritated and they're not out of the 1st section. Once the war is over, I advised everyone to come here and share their experience and opinions of the map.

So far, it's not looking like they're having fun. For me, that's the biggest issue. It's a game. It should be fun. Challenging, of course. However there's a difference between Challenging and overkill in the realm of difficulty. From what I saw, the placement job done by the opposing Alliance isn't over the top. Which is nice for us, but at the same time, it's still rough. That's a little unnerving in itself.

What's going to happen when someone runs into a situation that requires X champs that they do not have? They're essentially screwed. Where's the fun in that? Yes, many of our members have VERY diverse rosters. Even so, no one has EVERY champ. Our backup players are talented and should be able to help in any scenario. But, if there's more than 1 situation that requires backup. Welp, we're screwed in that case, lol. Oh how fun... 😒

Evangelionlovr

My main concern with the new map is how long paths are now

Gregdagr8

Node 13 needs to be reworked or removed. Other than that, it's not that bad.

GroundedWisdom

Please, let's focus on the matter at hand. The new AW map. As it stands, it would seem the general consensus is that it's too much as is. Our Alliance is getting the full experience this time (ran into a tanking Alliance 1st run... next to no defenders placed). Already players are getting irritated and they're not out of the 1st section. Once the war is over, I advised everyone to come here and share their experience and opinions of the map.

So far, it's not looking like they're having fun. For me, that's the biggest issue. It's a game. It should be fun. Challenging, of course. However there's a difference between Challenging and overkill in the realm of difficulty. From what I saw, the placement job done by the opposing Alliance isn't over the top. Which is nice for us, but at the same time, it's still rough. That's a little unnerving in itself.

What's going to happen when someone runs into a situation that requires X champs that they do not have? They're essentially screwed. Where's the fun in that? Yes, many of our members have VERY diverse rosters. Even so, no one has EVERY champ. Our backup players are talented and should be able to help in any scenario. But, if there's more than 1 situation that requires backup. Welp, we're screwed in that case, lol. Oh how fun... 😒

Yeah, that's what we're seeing. There are a few possibilities. Running it anyway, which won't go over very well and I suspect is the fear people have, making adjustments to some of the Nodes before Season 10, or perhaps foregoing the Map change until further revisions. It really depends on where they're going with it.