Summoner Sigil - Discussion Thread

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  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,512 ★★★★★

    Can I pay the subscription with Google Play Cards?

    Yes.
  • Supercaptain18Supercaptain18 Posts: 64
    edited August 2
    I think that the iOS Black Market should have higher limits on things I thought I could trade my 40,000 Premium Hero Crystal shards for 10 Ultimate crystals that would be awesome but that doesn't seem to be the way you want it to work, But is there anyway you could up the limits on the shard to crystal trade for the little guys?????
    @Kabam Miike @Kabam Zibiit @Kabam Vydious @Kabam Lyra @Kabam Porthos
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 6,428 ★★★★★

    I think that the iOS Black Market should have higher limits on things I thought I could trade my 40,000 Premium Hero Crystal shards for 10 Ultimate crystals that would be awesome but that doesn't seem to be the way you want it to work, But is there anyway you could up the limits on the shard to crystal trade for the little guys?????

    Don't tag the mods
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,512 ★★★★★
    It's a pretty simple decision. You either offer it for Units, or money. Offering it for both makes no sense, really.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 8,874 Guardian
    ESF said:

    If a Kabam person reads these two questions -- I am not tagging anyone but would certainly be appreciative of any kind of response, and I understand that it may not yield a definitive answer, but I would like to know if it's even possible:

    If the Sigil program does well, could it be expanded to where we might see different skins of existing characters or exclusive characters as part of a subscription package?

    Because that's what I want. I don't know if it's possible, or if it's even something that would be considered.

    But if it's not even something that could ever happen, it would be nice to know. Because I am willing to roll the dice and support a subscription service if it is possible in the future because I believe in putting my money where my mouth is, but I am being honest by saying that the Sigil package as currently structured is less interesting to me if it is likely not ever to expand.

    In my judgment, this is less a question of money and more a question of concept. The game's concept is playing the Marvel characters, and that tends to lend itself less to customization. Different games treat this in different ways, and from what I've seen Marvel itself has been less interested in the idea of players making "their own versions" of the Marvel characters and more into making the characters themselves "iconic." If I'm remembering correctly, this resistance is something that goes all the way back to Marvel Universe Online, aka the MMO that was never released.

    I'm not saying no Marvel game has customization, or that Marvel would never let customization happen here of any kind. Just that Marvel tends to be finicky with their IP, and I don't think money is the thing that would drive them in this area.

    When Kabam makes a new champion, whether based on existing Marvel characters or inventing all new ones, they work with Marvel, and at the end of the day those champions become actual Marvel characters. Marvel signs off on every design. Letting players customize the champions is kind of sort of letting players "make" their own versions of the characters without Marvel approval. My impression is that Marvel is not comfortable with that idea in general. And making Marvel-approved skins for the champions would be time consuming, time you couldn't spend on designing the look of new champions.

    But of course if I've learned anything from two decades of MMOs, its never say never.
  • _Barabbas__Barabbas_ Posts: 49
    It sounds good, but why charge people for these? If you are going to charge, it should be 4.99 or something.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 6,428 ★★★★★
    Siliyo said:

    It's a pretty simple decision. You either offer it for Units, or money. Offering it for both makes no sense, really.

    It does make sense, for people who may not necessarily have the units - they can purchase with real money. Likewise, for people who want to support Kabam, they can do so directly by purchasing with real money.

    I think what you’re missing behind your statement is Kabam’s incentives to offer one over the other. One person has brought in over $500,000 on Cavalier crystals alone. Just one person & we’re not even including people like COWhale. I think it was a bit of a reach for Kabam to offer this for money only.
    If they offer it for units, they would just offer it for free. No point in paying with units when it gives units. That wouldn't make sense anyway. This is subscription offer that's supposed to generate revenue as the case with every other subscription based offer out there.
  • TheTalentsTheTalents Posts: 535 ★★★

    Siliyo said:

    It's a pretty simple decision. You either offer it for Units, or money. Offering it for both makes no sense, really.

    It does make sense, for people who may not necessarily have the units - they can purchase with real money. Likewise, for people who want to support Kabam, they can do so directly by purchasing with real money.

    I think what you’re missing behind your statement is Kabam’s incentives to offer one over the other. One person has brought in over $500,000 on Cavalier crystals alone. Just one person & we’re not even including people like COWhale. I think it was a bit of a reach for Kabam to offer this for money only.
    If they offer it for units, they would just offer it for free. No point in paying with units when it gives units. That wouldn't make sense anyway. This is subscription offer that's supposed to generate revenue as the case with every other subscription based offer out there.
    The thought I proposed was for them to actually give us battlechips which isn't necessarily units so it doesn't have to be free. Basically I want my map 7 costs covered monthly without having to hop into arena daily.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 6,428 ★★★★★
    Xdonre said:

    Personally I don’t have a problem w/ the idea that Kabam is a “for profit company” nor do I have a problem w/ periodically purchasing content. However my primary concern/ problem w/ this offer is the lack of true value. This Sigil just seems like an idea for Kabam to increase their profits w/o providing the Summoners w/ any real value or rewards. And what really concerns me when reviewing a lot of the pro comments regarding the Sigil is that these posts seem to ignore the idea that Kabam CAN & SHOULD release offers that are fair, reasonably priced & contains value for the majority the community.

    Its a introductory version. Its typical for a company to test an idea and then build on it the further you go along. If it tests badly, it might get scrapped or the format changes. I doubt this service will be the same a year from now. Most likely there'll be tiered offers.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,512 ★★★★★
    Siliyo said:

    It's a pretty simple decision. You either offer it for Units, or money. Offering it for both makes no sense, really.

    It does make sense, for people who may not necessarily have the units - they can purchase with real money. Likewise, for people who want to support Kabam, they can do so directly by purchasing with real money.

    I think what you’re missing behind your statement is Kabam’s incentives to offer one over the other. One person has brought in over $500,000 on Cavalier crystals alone. Just one person & we’re not even including people like COWhale. I think it was a bit of a reach for Kabam to offer this for money only.
    Wanting to support Kabam may go into the personal decision to spend, but that's not exactly the objective of selling something. It's an Offer. The objective is to offer what is being proposed for the price that's set. It's not really a situation of donations.
    If they offer it for Units, not many people are going to pay for it. Conversely, what's the point of charging for the Units, then buying the Subscription? You might as well just charge for the Subscription.
  • TacoScottyTacoScotty Posts: 407 ★★
    If your goal was to add most things people were asking for (but for free vs subscription), for top tier you should have also included option to trade 1 t4cc of any type to get 1 t4b. The 3 t4b for 1 t4cc I am sure is nice for lower tier players (probably should have made this option come sooner) but higher tier would happily trade a t4cc for 1 t4b often (maybe increased inventory helps this a little)

    I only hope with time some of these features are pushed down to be available for free (liked the idea of being able to buy for units too) and then you can add I guess other options for premium
  • XdonreXdonre Posts: 104
    Demonzfyre stated: Its a introductory version. Its typical for a company to test an idea and then build on it the further you go along. If it tests badly, it might get scrapped or the format changes. I doubt this service will be the same a year from now. Most likely there'll be tiered offers.

    Understandable that it is a a introductory offer...however my point is that if Kabam wanted this offer to be successful and embrace by the majority of the community they had a great opportunity to make an offer that is enticing for that majority... as it stands it seems to have failed miserably ...and makes you wonder why would a company whose livelihood is solely dependent on its customers be so out of touch w/ its customer base...the saga continues.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 6,428 ★★★★★
    Xdonre said:

    Demonzfyre stated: Its a introductory version. Its typical for a company to test an idea and then build on it the further you go along. If it tests badly, it might get scrapped or the format changes. I doubt this service will be the same a year from now. Most likely there'll be tiered offers.

    Understandable that it is a a introductory offer...however my point is that if Kabam wanted this offer to be successful and embrace by the majority of the community they had a great opportunity to make an offer that is enticing for that majority... as it stands it seems to have failed miserably ...and makes you wonder why would a company whose livelihood is solely dependent on its customers be so out of touch w/ its customer base...the saga continues.

    How did you come to the conclusion it failed miserably? It hasn't even been released yet. Judging something off an incredibly, incredibly small percentage in a thread will always mislead you. This thread is a mixed bag of opinions.

    You can't make a conclusion until its been released. To them as a company, this is enticing. Time will tell if it worked or not.
  • BenLucasBenLucas Posts: 69
    I am not finding value in the subscription and dont spend anyway but similarly wouldnt stop others from spending on a game they like.

    My concern is the incentive this presents. It will limit/eliminate gold realms (why bring them back since they are behind a paywall now?). Most future game improvements would be behind the paywall or at least there is a strong incentive for them to do so (i.e. lets expand AQ energy to 6/6... well that would go great behind a paywall). And a further worry, in future redesign to the game such as new AQ/AW/EQ there is an incentive (even if its marginal) for them to increase energy requirements and/or difficulty and then add perks to counter those things behind the paywall.

    But if this could be improved, I would say gold realms and energy improvements should NOT be in there. We have been asking for those for a long time and it is a kick in the teeth to put that behind a paid service. Other kinds of perks like a discounted 5* well that might have value for some so by all means go for it, whales must be milked after all.
  • zeezee57zeezee57 Posts: 2,087 ★★★★
    Here's the way I see it as far as value goes, if there were a new weekly offer of 75 units, 1k 5* shards, 125k gold for $2.99 would you get it? That's not taking into account the lower featured 5* cost, increased inventory etc. While I probably wouldn't pick it up every week I probably would more often than not. If you would too than the Sigil is a reasonable value for $9.99 a month as you'll get those every week plus all the extras.
  • Midnite93Midnite93 Posts: 2,181 ★★★★
    I think sigil should cost in units instead of real $$ so even FTP can get it.
  • BenLucasBenLucas Posts: 69
    Midnite93 said:

    I think sigil should cost in units instead of real $$ so even FTP can get it.

    Problem for kabam there is that the whales would also use units and essentially nobody would spend $ on the subscription. So it wouldnt work for them.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,512 ★★★★★
    A Subscription for $10 doesn't really qualify as Whale targeting.
  • TacoScottyTacoScotty Posts: 407 ★★
    BenLucas said:

    Midnite93 said:

    I think sigil should cost in units instead of real $$ so even FTP can get it.

    Problem for kabam there is that the whales would also use units and essentially nobody would spend $ on the subscription. So it wouldnt work for them.
    Nah the unit cost would be higher than straight conversion of dollars to units in unit store. 10 bucks is worth 310 units or so to a whale I assume. Therefore if they offered it for units I would expect 3-5x times that - something in 1000-1500 range - my guess base 1500 and give offers throughout year that you can occasionally get a month for maybe 1000. Keep in mind you get 300 units or whatever with the deal (supposedly easily if active) so amount would need to be a chunk higher than that for unit users versus payers.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 8,874 Guardian
    BenLucas said:

    Midnite93 said:

    I think sigil should cost in units instead of real $$ so even FTP can get it.

    Problem for kabam there is that the whales would also use units and essentially nobody would spend $ on the subscription. So it wouldnt work for them.
    Even if whales bought it with cash, that would completely miss the point to the Sigil sub. Nothing the whales do has anything to do with the purpose of the VIP sub. It is great if they buy it, but they aren't the primary target. Smaller spenders, and the people on the fence about whether to spend or not, are.

    There are always lots of players in a free to play game that can afford to spend, would spend if they felt the value was there, but aren't enticed by most of the normal offers, because most normal offers have low value for reasons I've explained before. This targets them. That's why you can't buy them with units, that's why they don't cost a trivial amount like a buck, that's why all the perks in the sub have strict caps on how much value you can extract out of it.
  • BenLucasBenLucas Posts: 69
    DNA3000 said:

    BenLucas said:

    Midnite93 said:

    I think sigil should cost in units instead of real $$ so even FTP can get it.

    Problem for kabam there is that the whales would also use units and essentially nobody would spend $ on the subscription. So it wouldnt work for them.
    Even if whales bought it with cash, that would completely miss the point to the Sigil sub. Nothing the whales do has anything to do with the purpose of the VIP sub. It is great if they buy it, but they aren't the primary target. Smaller spenders, and the people on the fence about whether to spend or not, are.

    There are always lots of players in a free to play game that can afford to spend, would spend if they felt the value was there, but aren't enticed by most of the normal offers, because most normal offers have low value for reasons I've explained before. This targets them. That's why you can't buy them with units, that's why they don't cost a trivial amount like a buck, that's why all the perks in the sub have strict caps on how much value you can extract out of it.
    Fair points.
    If I may rephrase: Problem for kabam there is that anyone that spends money would also have a preference to use units and essentially nobody would spend $ on the subscription. So it wouldnt work for them.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,512 ★★★★★
    There's also the obvious reason. They could have offered it for Units, but that's not what they wanted. Seems simple, but it's really just a matter of X is offered for Y, not Z. These Subscriptions have been for money, same as the existing ones. I have yet to see one for Units.
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