How many docks does it take for players to stop modding in AW Seasons?

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How many times is reporting it and leaving it to them ok when there's no action taken?

That's the frustration being voiced (and the actual topic) in this thread.

When you play a game for 4 years, 4 to 8 or more hours a day, and especially at high levels... You have an intimate knowledge of what is possible and what is not possible in this game. It's not mysticism or science, it simply is game knowledge.

When you (and a few hundred others with the same game knowledge that regularly communicate with each other) play against one of 3 particular alliances season after season, you see all you need to see.

When you (and a few hundred others) monitor these 3 alliances over the course of several seasons, you also see when action has been taken and when action has not been taken. You know the signs, you know the blowback. None of it is there.

When you (and a few hundred others) see a pattern of behavior that isn't stopping because of temporary bans or points docks, when you see the methods used starting to spread, when you see players bouncing to other alliances to repeat the process... You see exactly what's happening.

This thread isn't about guesswork, it's not baseless allegations, it's not crying over losses or lack of rewards. It's high level, knowledgeable, long-term players LITERALLY begging kabam to up their game FOR THE GAME ITSELF.

It's players trying to properly use the reporting protocol as designed to beg kabam to take appropriate action. And it's players telling kabam that those reporting protocols and the system of checks in place as of now have simply failed.

No one is asking for a hand-written letter laying out information that shouldn't be laid out. The only thing anyone wants is to know they're heard, know that Kabam is taking this extremely seriously, and know that Kabam is putting a laser focus on an issue that has been ongoing (by the same group of cheaters) for at least 3 seasons. That's all. Then, everyone can sit back and wait, allow kabam to do their thing.

So, we're waiting.

Bump, because this quote captures the core essence of this thread and it should not get derailed any further.

Run477

Why are you still trying to derail this conversation? This is about modding in war and the lack of legitimate consequences/unfairness to the ally that happens to have to play one of these modding allies.

And all you want to talk about is how you haven’t beaten the collector yet or played above gold 3. Please stay on topic and stop trying to derail the conversation.

GroundedWisdom

I'm quite aware of what the Thread is about. I've been participating in it all along. I'm not getting sucked into a rabbit hole. Sorry.

GroundedWisdom

Moving on. I agree with people on the fact that it needs to be dealt with. I'm not getting into the Compensation issue. I think I've said enough on that. To be frank, I agree that punishment should be the same as other game modes which are found to use Mods. I'm just not sure we will get a definite answer about specific Allies here on the Forum. Obviously we know they take these issues seriously. They've said so repeatedly. They've come far in making War a fair space, and I'm sure there's room for improvement. I'm just not convinced we will get much of a specific response in terms of particular cases. They don't really talk about specifics.

Run477

I have sent videos to kabam showing a guy clearly nodding against us in war. We had a feeling based on how they were moving at the end that they were modding. One of our ally members happened to be looking st our defense when the last guy started moving.

While being recorded, he took a void on the bleed node in old war setup using zero bleed immune champs and did it in 20 seconds and lost zero health. That was after killing an r5 Killmonger on node 29 and losing zero health with no champ that could clear it (I’m talking 4* champs that inflict debuffs). Also on video. Then he soloed our boss in less than 30 seconds, lost zero health. Also on video.

It was a very close war—my memory is that they needed to die one or two times and we won. We had the war won bc their backup had already went somewhere else and the guy sitting at node 29 didn’t have any champs that could clear the remaining nodes. But then he cleared with modding.

Not only did kabam not end up docking that ally for this—they ended up in masters they season. Multiple allies faced them and same issues. Losing out on that war bonus also likely cost us plat 1.

That is a war I can 100% say we would have won had the other side not cheated. To say that we know they take it seriously bc they have “told us” they do is laughable. One of the allies siting toward the top of masters currently modded all last season and has already been caught on video modding this season.

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Uppercut

Any updates from Kabam on this subject? Based on what I read there are two action items:

1. Review war activity of the alliance who’s members were season 9-10 offenders. It’s currently a highly ranked master bracket alliance and many legitimate players are affected every war (reporting them to support did not help so far).

2. We need a better long term solution before next season starts. Faster/ better mod detection and clear message to hackers that game integrity matters (ban policy needs an update).

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GroundedWisdom

I understand the frustration of them doing it 3 Seasons. I'm also all for improvement. I'm just not too keen on too fast. There also has to be a thorough process of investigation. I don't want an Auto-Ban system or a situation where any person can just take out the competition without due process. I'm not disputing what people have found with specific Allies. I'm just making the point that it has to take a certain amount of time. It's never instantaneous.

Uppercut

I understand the frustration of them doing it 3 Seasons.

We need Kabam to answer this, not you. It’s great you understand and have free time to spam forum posts

GroundedWisdom

This Forum is for Players to discuss the game. Not just for responses from Moderation. Having a conversation is not spamming. You're free to ask for a response, but they may or may not comment on every Thread, and other people will participate in what's posted.

crystaldsmith

I'm not really very educated on this topic. What mods are people using and how can you detect them as an opponent?

I'm far more familiar with piloting as it's freaking impossible to get the person who did it to admit it and my old Alliance was docked several times for it.

Darklord2099

Just looking at top 3 of Master bracket, those are the same group of people that got docked end of last season to P2. Changed alliance and do the same thing. We were fighting them in recent war. They can take down brute force all or nothing Thing using Magik and use OR for Darkhawk T1 Boss with little health loss. Extremely frustrating to see. Kabam, what is the point of balancing champs, they can just cheat and beat the content at ease.

Sank_10

Modders are really killing the game. Even they get docked, it still doesnt compensate alliances who lose against modders

Perhaps all of us should create a sub-alliance consists of mod accounts. Its ok to get dock, the idea is to get competitor of the main alliance lose points during war. Good idea ?

DTMelodicMetal

Bumping to keep this topic fresh considering there are no docks happening yet.

Waiting until the damage is done really is getting tiresome.

Uppercut

Just looking at top 3 of Master bracket, those are the same group of people that got docked end of last season to P2. Changed alliance and do the same thing. We were fighting them in recent war. They can take down brute force all or nothing Thing using Magik and use OR for Darkhawk T1 Boss with little health loss. Extremely frustrating to see. Kabam, what is the point of balancing champs, they can just cheat and beat the content at ease.

@Darklord2099 did you record it or take screenshots of before and after those fights?

DJSergy

Moving on. I agree with people on the fact that it needs to be dealt with. I'm not getting into the Compensation issue. I think I've said enough on that. To be frank, I agree that punishment should be the same as other game modes which are found to use Mods. I'm just not sure we will get a definite answer about specific Allies here on the Forum. Obviously we know they take these issues seriously. They've said so repeatedly. They've come far in making War a fair space, and I'm sure there's room for improvement. I'm just not convinced we will get much of a specific response in terms of particular cases. They don't really talk about specifics.

Even though they don’t discuss specific cases, the most important and controversial case is an alliance beating top tier alliances using mods. So yes, kabam needs to make an exception and address this specific case and make it public to the community. This will ease the minds of competitive players that are spending in AW 30% boosts (highly expensive) but are getting beat by an alliance using hacks

GroundedWisdom

Moving on. I agree with people on the fact that it needs to be dealt with. I'm not getting into the Compensation issue. I think I've said enough on that. To be frank, I agree that punishment should be the same as other game modes which are found to use Mods. I'm just not sure we will get a definite answer about specific Allies here on the Forum. Obviously we know they take these issues seriously. They've said so repeatedly. They've come far in making War a fair space, and I'm sure there's room for improvement. I'm just not convinced we will get much of a specific response in terms of particular cases. They don't really talk about specifics.
Even though they don’t discuss specific cases, the most important and controversial case is an alliance beating top tier alliances using mods. So yes, kabam needs to make an exception and address this specific case and make it public to the community. This will ease the minds of competitive players that are spending in AW 30% boosts (highly expensive) but are getting beat by an alliance using hacks

Why is it necessary to make it public? Isn't the objective having it dealt with? This isn't Game of Thrones. Lol. Public lambasting isn't really necessary.

OmegaSupreme

Modding is at an all-time high and we need swift action.

This is a slow moving game and player investment is insane:

Years of roster development
Years of learning
Thousands of hours grinding
Thousands on offers

...so some kid can waltz in with a hack and make it all a joke???

The only reason we play is because we think it's a fair game, but that's not the case anymore and you're doing nothing meaningful about it.

A simple dock at the end of a season won't do anything. The damage is already done to innocent teams, and it hasn't stopped the same hackers from doing it again the next season.

Anyone caught hacking or botting needs a permanent ban. Rehabilitation doesn't work.

These cheaters are your enemy because they're poisoning the well and killing your game from the inside out. You're crazy if you think anyone will spend on a champ so some twerp can run a mod and clear it in less than 20 seconds.

Hacking is a cancer that will kill any competitive game, and MCOC is no different. Once it reaches a certain level where it's too common, it becomes "one of those games" that no one touches because cheaters have tainted it.

Kabam, tell us what you're going to do about it.

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SiriusBreak

I still say the punishment should be specific to the game mode. Using hacks/mods on your account is a violation of the ToS. Utilizing them in AW should come with an AW timeout so to speak. Ban them from AW altogether for 1 Season on top of the standard ToS Violation Ban. Perhaps putting a dent in their Loyalty influx will make cheating less worth it. As it currently stands, the punishments do not do well enough to detour the practice. Or so it seems anyway.

Let's also note that if those that would cheat in AW were locked out for a Season, perhaps the next one would be fought on even ground. Seeing as how they couldn't join in, it would definitely lessen the chances of running into someone who's utilizing mods. Now I do to a certain extent agree that those who repeatedly utilize them, even after point docks and bans aren't likely to change.

However if the punishments changed, and scaled per repeated infraction (1st offense - 1 Season Ban; 2nd offense - 2 Season Ban; 3rd offense - 6 month AW Ban) they might be more inclined to stop doing it. However, after 3 offenses and 9 months total being locked out of AW... yeah, they'll never learn. At which time, adios MCoC privileges. What else can be done at that point?

Meshu43

Modding is at an all-time high and we need swift action.

This is a slow moving game and player investment is insane:

Years of roster development
Years of learning
Thousands of hours grinding
Thousands on offers

...so some kid can waltz in with a hack and make it all a joke???

The only reason we play is because we think it's a fair game, but that's not the case anymore and you're doing nothing meaningful about it.

A simple dock at the end of a season won't do anything. The damage is already done to innocent teams, and it hasn't stopped the same hackers from doing it again the next season.

Anyone caught hacking or botting needs a permanent ban. Rehabilitation doesn't work.

These cheaters are your enemy because they're poisoning the well and killing your game from the inside out. You're crazy if you think anyone will spend on a champ so some twerp can run a mod and clear it in less than 20 seconds.

Hacking is a cancer that will kill any competitive game, and MCOC is no different. Once it reaches a certain level where it's too common, it becomes "one of those games" that no one touches because cheaters have tainted it.

Kabam, tell us what you're going to do about it.

Kudos man , been facing Mod alliance back 2 back ! Lost 3 wars in a row to Modders , Kabam does nothing ! (Telling from experience)
Sits back and bot the auto reply !
I did waste my time , my energy , but Kabam doesn't care of what's going in the game ! I sent them proof of Modding , sent them profiles of being people Cavaliers with rank 1 5* ! Snapshot of a guy we were facing in war having Ultron Omega with no good roster !
Man , am already loosing the interest in the game , don't want that to happen , but Can't Stop , Won't Stop ! I'll sure delete this game once we Face Modders in Aw again !
This game is now broken guys

DTMelodicMetal

The prolonged silence and inaction on this topic is not an effective way to resolve this problem. There is research going back literally 50 years that explains how consequences are most effective when applied consistently and as soon after undesired behavior as is possible. Neither consistency nor timely responses have been utilized with players modding in AW.

Disagreeing with these concepts does not decrease their validity:

GroundedWisdom

Taking an excerpt from The Journal of Special Education......um......while I admire your fervor, that's pretty inappropriate.

GroundedWisdom

I don't like cheating any more than anyone else, but you can't say they're developmentally disabled. People cheat with the same motivation that others have when they become insanely competitive and obsessed with what others are doing during Seasons. Same drive behind both. People want to win and they want Rewards. The difference is, one side is careless and greedy enough to break the rules. The other plays by the rules. I'm not saying cheating is justified. Just saying you can't say they're somehow disabled. They're just obsessed with winning at any cost. Not all people are honest. Fortunately the majority of us are.

OmegaSupreme

Start at 1:30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2mCt6VF-v0

DJSergy

Moving on. I agree with people on the fact that it needs to be dealt with. I'm not getting into the Compensation issue. I think I've said enough on that. To be frank, I agree that punishment should be the same as other game modes which are found to use Mods. I'm just not sure we will get a definite answer about specific Allies here on the Forum. Obviously we know they take these issues seriously. They've said so repeatedly. They've come far in making War a fair space, and I'm sure there's room for improvement. I'm just not convinced we will get much of a specific response in terms of particular cases. They don't really talk about specifics.
Even though they don’t discuss specific cases, the most important and controversial case is an alliance beating top tier alliances using mods. So yes, kabam needs to make an exception and address this specific case and make it public to the community. This will ease the minds of competitive players that are spending in AW 30% boosts (highly expensive) but are getting beat by an alliance using hacks
Why is it necessary to make it public? Isn't the objective having it dealt with? This isn't Game of Thrones. Lol. Public lambasting isn't really necessary.

Lol I’m going to be honest it is funny first thing you thought was game of thrones 😂 .

However in real life it is quite common for organizations to make details available to everyone to “set an example” and establish a precedent everyone will follow. This is HR 101, not game of thrones 😂

Zuro

This is basically the same as those people who cheat in arena I don't understand why Kabam doesn't just permanent ban them and call it a day

Greywarden

This is basically the same as those people who cheat in arena I don't understand why Kabam doesn't just permanent ban them and call it a day

Not to mention the people who miss out on the champ because of these cheats who sometimes get a mini ban AND get to keep the champ.....so broken.

Nick_Caine_32

If you're going to try calling people out, you should probably get your facts straight.
Winning is the same greedy motivation that compels people to cheat. Winning without earning it. Giving the Win without earning it is the same thing, without breaking rules.

Not to keep this going, but I would love if you would respond to my earlier comment in this thread about the "bye" system awarding groups with wins by default (up to 3 a week since it launched) and tell me how that is acceptable, but not this? It's getting something for not playing a war due to no fault of the alliance playing, it's just the circumstance that's different that leads to the default. Why is one acceptable while the other isn't, to you? I hesitated in responding but this was a few pages back and you're still repeating it and keeping it going.