@DNA3000 I believe my post got delted so I have to rewrite it and not quote you.
12.0 to 12.1 was drastically different. I remember when 12.0 hit you would lose a significant amount of damage just by parrying. Reasonable people knew that those minor details here and there that had to be updated made all the difference. If 12.0 stayed as presently constructed I would not be playing and that for sure whether you try to minimize it or not.
Also, what you don't understand is that this argument has nothing to do with Cull Obsidian it is about precedence moving forward. This is nothing from the community but a warning. Touch Namor or a champion that's actually relevant or top 10 and watch what happens. We have whales on record already saying they're going to scale back on spending. I would advise to Kabam to test more and leave current champs as is.
It is probably for the best you don't quote me, because this doesn't directly address anything I said. I was replying to someone claiming that these changes were bad for business and would cost Kabam money. My reply focuses on that, and nothing else. It said that this charge has been made many times, and in every case it turned out to be wrong. Your statement was that 12.0 was not a good example, because Kabam did in fact make significant changes. My reply, which focuses again only on what you said in the post I replied to, was that this was an oversimplification. Many people complained about many things in 12.0, but the people who *specifically* were claiming it would be the death of the game were complaining about a lot of things that 12.0.1 and 12.1 didn't change.
Yes, 12.1 was different than 12.0. That's true. But I'm not saying it wasn't different. I'm saying 12.1 didn't "fix" the things that the "death of the game" people were complaining about. That makes them wrong, either because they were incorrect the changes would kill the game, or they were wrong about which things were important to complain about in the first place.
When you say I don't understand "this argument" there's no argument I'm replying to here. I'm replying to an assertion: that someone thinks nerfs are bad for business and thinks anecdotes about spending reductions are significant. But these things happen every day, and have happened after every major change to the game. After 12.0, it became fashionable for players to exclaim, whenever a change happened they didn't like, that we should "start a boycott." I kept saying then that this was a mistake: calling for a boycott every time a change took place wasn't just worthless, it was less than worthless because it quickly became an empty threat. Eventually it wasn't just me pointing that out: try calling for a "boycott" on the forums now: you'll get a lot of people sighing.
The same thing is true about people claiming to know what changes will cost Kabam money. Kabam execs can actually look at their retention and revenue data, we can't. Every time someone makes this assertion and the numbers prove them wrong, it simply makes that particular threat increasingly silly.
People quit all the time, people stop spending all the time. A "warning" from the community regarding spending has no teeth. If it actually happens and it is noticeable Kabam will notice it whether the community "warns" them or not. Conversely, if the community warns them and it doesn't happen, that warning just reminds Kabam how little the forums actually represent the majority of players, and weakens our ability to have our voices heard.
Ultimately, game companies don't care what players say, they care what players do. If what we say mirrors what players do, our voices have credibility. If it doesn't we don't. I'm sure someone will come along and say that Kabam doesn't have credibility either. But that's irrelevant. We need credibility for Kabam to listen to us. Kabam doesn't need credibility to change the game any way they want. If they don't listen to us and we don't listen to them in return, the only people who lose is us, not them. The game doesn't depend on the couple thousand of us. It mostly depends on the hundreds of thousands or millions of players that don't post on forums or Reddit, and for that matter mostly don't care about anything we're discussing. Most players, even most spenders, are only superficially involved in these issues, if at all. Kabam needs them. It doesn't need us. If we're going to make a difference, we can't keep making empty threats and throwing tantrums and thinking we lead an army of players behind us. There's no one behind us. Its just us.
@DNA3000 I believe my post got delted so I have to rewrite it and not quote you.
12.0 to 12.1 was drastically different. I remember when 12.0 hit you would lose a significant amount of damage just by parrying. Reasonable people knew that those minor details here and there that had to be updated made all the difference. If 12.0 stayed as presently constructed I would not be playing and that for sure whether you try to minimize it or not.
Also, what you don't understand is that this argument has nothing to do with Cull Obsidian it is about precedence moving forward. This is nothing from the community but a warning. Touch Namor or a champion that's actually relevant or top 10 and watch what happens. We have whales on record already saying they're going to scale back on spending. I would advise to Kabam to test more and leave current champs as is.
It is probably for the best you don't quote me, because this doesn't directly address anything I said. I was replying to someone claiming that these changes were bad for business and would cost Kabam money. My reply focuses on that, and nothing else. It said that this charge has been made many times, and in every case it turned out to be wrong. Your statement was that 12.0 was not a good example, because Kabam did in fact make significant changes. My reply, which focuses again only on what you said in the post I replied to, was that this was an oversimplification. Many people complained about many things in 12.0, but the people who *specifically* were claiming it would be the death of the game were complaining about a lot of things that 12.0.1 and 12.1 didn't change.
Yes, 12.1 was different than 12.0. That's true. But I'm not saying it wasn't different. I'm saying 12.1 didn't "fix" the things that the "death of the game" people were complaining about. That makes them wrong, either because they were incorrect the changes would kill the game, or they were wrong about which things were important to complain about in the first place.
When you say I don't understand "this argument" there's no argument I'm replying to here. I'm replying to an assertion: that someone thinks nerfs are bad for business and thinks anecdotes about spending reductions are significant. But these things happen every day, and have happened after every major change to the game. After 12.0, it became fashionable for players to exclaim, whenever a change happened they didn't like, that we should "start a boycott." I kept saying then that this was a mistake: calling for a boycott every time a change took place wasn't just worthless, it was less than worthless because it quickly became an empty threat. Eventually it wasn't just me pointing that out: try calling for a "boycott" on the forums now: you'll get a lot of people sighing.
The same thing is true about people claiming to know what changes will cost Kabam money. Kabam execs can actually look at their retention and revenue data, we can't. Every time someone makes this assertion and the numbers prove them wrong, it simply makes that particular threat increasingly silly.
People quit all the time, people stop spending all the time. A "warning" from the community regarding spending has no teeth. If it actually happens and it is noticeable Kabam will notice it whether the community "warns" them or not. Conversely, if the community warns them and it doesn't happen, that warning just reminds Kabam how little the forums actually represent the majority of players, and weakens our ability to have our voices heard.
Ultimately, game companies don't care what players say, they care what players do. If what we say mirrors what players do, our voices have credibility. If it doesn't we don't. I'm sure someone will come along and say that Kabam doesn't have credibility either. But that's irrelevant. We need credibility for Kabam to listen to us. Kabam doesn't need credibility to change the game any way they want. If they don't listen to us and we don't listen to them in return, the only people who lose is us, not them. The game doesn't depend on the couple thousand of us. It mostly depends on the hundreds of thousands or millions of players that don't post on forums or Reddit, and for that matter mostly don't care about anything we're discussing. Most players, even most spenders, are only superficially involved in these issues, if at all. Kabam needs them. It doesn't need us. If we're going to make a difference, we can't keep making empty threats and throwing tantrums and thinking we lead an army of players behind us. There's no one behind us. Its just us.
Even though Kabam didn't make the specific changes you were referring to about 12.0 they made a different game entirely with 12.1. So even if the examples that they choose to criticize the game about weren't the same as the end result the fact is, the complaining and boycotts caused Kabam to go to a different more reasonable direction. That was my point and I'm happy to clarify.
We agree on companies reacting to what players do. I wasn't a forum visitor when 12.0 hit. I got my information on youtube, I didn't need to make my response online to stop spending. There are plenty of guys that don't post that feel the same way I do now. Kabam can take this lightly if they won't and they likely will but when it impacts their wallets things will change, I'm just trying to get them ahead of the game so they don't have to back pedal and revisit. Which is often what they do.
I think more compensation than just rank down tickets should be given out. They just can’t go this. I wasted s lot of money on a crystal that was suppose to give me a champ that does a task. Seems devious to me if they change it. I’m done if this occurs
What prevents Kabam from coming out with a champ that you love to play the mechanics and he goes a certain amount of things and you spend $$$ then they nerf him. Seems unethical
But you knew some of the recent champs were going to be re-evaluated right? Kabam announced this last month.
You do realize Cull was released in May 2019, they said 3 months after a champion’s release and BEFORE they enter the basic pool. Guess what? It’s been 4 months and Cull is in the crystal pool.
Yeah but they did say it'll take 3 months for the changes to take effect right? So 3+3=6 month. You should ideally wait 6 months before using a generic 5* awakening gem on him.
A generic 5* awakening gem is so rare why take the risk?
You can't blame Kabam for making an impulsive decision.
But you knew some of the recent champs were going to be re-evaluated right? Kabam announced this last month.
You do realize Cull was released in May 2019, they said 3 months after a champion’s release and BEFORE they enter the basic pool. Guess what? It’s been 4 months and Cull is in the crystal pool.
Yeah but they did say it'll take 3 months for the changes to take effect right? So 3+3=6 month. You should ideally wait 6 months before using a generic 5* awakening gem on him.
A generic 5* awakening gem is so rare why take the risk?
You can't blame Kabam for making an impulsive decision.
That's the issue why do we have to wait 6 months to know if he is being changed or not
I bet knowing Kabam the data about Cull that they are making their decision on includes when he was doing massive damage 6 weeks ago or so. They fixed that already. Just saying they are the brightest when figuring out this stuff for periods of time.
This whole thing seems very shady to me but face it everyone kabam doesn’t care hence the lack of official response to anything written in here. They will continue to do what they want when they want as they can because it’s there game only thing we can do anymore is wait until their beta test(use playing these champs is over) to rank new champs it sucks that it comes to this but clearly that is what kabam wants if they are going to adjust champs as they see fit fine but I won’t waste any money or resources getting new champs makes a lot more sense to wit until they are “balanced” and put in the basic pool. It sucks but that is the current state of the game
But you knew some of the recent champs were going to be re-evaluated right? Kabam announced this last month.
You do realize Cull was released in May 2019, they said 3 months after a champion’s release and BEFORE they enter the basic pool. Guess what? It’s been 4 months and Cull is in the crystal pool.
Yeah but they did say it'll take 3 months for the changes to take effect right? So 3+3=6 month. You should ideally wait 6 months before using a generic 5* awakening gem on him.
A generic 5* awakening gem is so rare why take the risk?
You can't blame Kabam for making an impulsive decision.
What are you saying? Cull was out before deals of 4th july .. we didnt even know then for champs nerfs and tweaks. The owners of cull, like me, we use all the deals with real money at cull obsdidian, because we knew he was the best damage dealer in the game.
They should tweak only champs that came out after their announcement.
Lormif...in multiple posts you iterate this is about overall game balance, but in one of your latest you imply justification to this proposed late nerf by drawing attention to unforeseen interactions in 6.2 and season 10. Is this about overall game balance or end game? How did accrued data from these 2 areas change the perception and application of cull? And what in 6.2 makes him game breaking other than a global node that applies to all champs? This is a joke.
Honestly, they haven't even started the rework yet (presumably), and people are going off the wall. All we know is the data has shown that his Damage is higher than any other Champ, so that will most likely change. We don't know how much, we don't know what else will come, all we know is he's changing. Is anyone else waiting to see, or are we all on fire? Lol.
Data, how about actually playing the game first and see for yourself?. Also they wrote the data, so how could that be a surprise?.
I play the game. Yes, they wrote the data. They also examine it to see if it's where they want it to be. That's the other part of the job.
Yeah but they have to see it before release, its call quality assurance and testing
It's impossible to analyze data before a release. The data is what shows how they perform(ed). Past Tense. If you mean they should find all problems before they release, the game would never go live. Testing won't prevent issues from coming up.
quite the opposite, most of the issues in any product are solved before release, base on the data that was gathered during testing, and i dont mean "all problems", but damage can easily be tested. If you are going to tell me that kabam doesn't know what the damage will be of champions they are releasing, then that shows how poorly is the testing process (if there is any...), users are not doing anything "weird" with cull to get the crazy damage, they are just using the champions as it was design
they have an idea, but ideas can be wrong. Again you need 1000 poins of data from every type of interaction to get a statistically relevant idea on how they work.
You don't get "ideas" from the data, or you know how it will be on average (or in specific situations) or you don't know cuz you don't have the data. And, of course, a lot of data will be necessary, and that is completely possible to obtain, what most people dont get is that developers do not need to play the game to collect data, they can run thousands of simulated situations by simply running the algorithms and see what the output would be in different situations
Can they run algorithms? yes, but that does not simulate real world interactions.
I am super glad to have pulled a 5 star Cul Obsidian (was not cheap), also just recently used precious ressources and took him up to rank 4 so.. am kinda not looking forward to changes that will reduce his damage output. Would rather see him made able to take more punches..
@DNA3000 12.1 did address almost everything that the community wanted it to address, even the nerfs were soften to happy medium. Thor - could place 2 armor breaks instead of just the one, SW - the nerfed regen was drastically improved, poor Dr. Strange still sucked. The major issues were the block deficiency, 12.0 WS in ROL would wipe people out with a blocked sp2. The original challenger rating in 12.0 did effect things like parry for different rarities which was changed and they removed the additional attributes like block penetration etc. To say they didnt change the things that we said would kill the game is really in my opinion wrong. there was loud screams about the nerfs but the hard core players knew SW was to powerful, of course we werent spending 300 units to try to get her on a featured crystal on weekly basis back then it was just luck of the draw mostly. If we were spending that, we would have been a lot more upset. The changes in 12.0 were worse than the the champions being nerfed and the changes that they wanted to make didnt happen or were changed otherwise it would have killed the game.
There's a ton of misinformation to unpack here. But I'm going to focus on just one. The most important thing that changed about Thor wasn't actually in Thor himself: 12.0 changed the way armor break itself worked. In the past it worked multiplicatively, and when it was converted to flat stats it automatically started working linearly. In other words, if we roughly round off the armor break strength to approximately 100% originally, Thor's armor breaks in 11.x worked like this: 2x, 4x, 8x, 16x, 32x. That's how he was able to stack up damage so high so fast. In 12.x his armor breaks were turned into negative armor effects that stacked linearly: 1x, 2x, 3x, etc. This alone drastically reduced the effectiveness of Thor's armor breaks, and no amount of stacking could ever return it to its original effectiveness. Eliminating the stacking was just an additional reduction on top of that.
The devs hit Thor twice: once in eliminating stacking, and again in changing how armor break itself worked (this affected other champs that used armor break as well, which was discussed on the forums). The first change was really overkill in the presence of the second change, which is why Kabam softened it.
(Note: that's not how armor break works now. Its changed several times since then, and now it seems to be affected by DR whereas originally it was not).
Basically, Kabam was able to give back one stack of armor break because armor break itself was neutered. This was something most players didn't seem to notice or understand at the time.
As to the rest, I should point out even if you don't believe CR had no effect on Parry (it did not), they very obviously didn't eliminate block penetration or the other attributes added in 12.0 like critical resistance, and explicitly *stated* that they didn't eliminate block penetration. What they did was roll back all the block penetration buffs they gave to a wide range of champions in 12.0, but they kept the stat and said they would use it in future champions, which they did.
Back when he first was introduced I decided to drop a few hundred and go for him as a very cool niche champ. I loved his look, his animations, his sound, his damage potential and as a counter to the Variant evade drone. I play with him from time to time, but I run suicides, and there’s always a better option. I had no delusions about him as a game destroyer. Some quests or content he destroys very impressively, but many champs do that. Ever run Ronan on a resistor path? That’s fun for the whole family. That he is now being described as such annoys me, but it’s also kinda funny/sad. It’s the same old rhetoric you hear when you watch the news, see advertisements, etc. To some, it is remarkably unsubtle and manipulative, but over and over again the myopic majority take what they are fed.
It doesn’t matter if the change is minimal or balanced. If they lower his damage even 1% then he’s not what people paid for. If that needs to happen, fine... BUT you need to allow people to rank him down if they want to. That should be their right as they are no longer getting what they paid for. He might be great after the nerf... maybe he will... BUT he’s not what people paid for. When you buy something and then receive something else or what you get is altered it may still be of equal quality but you may have bought it for specific reasons and if those reasons have been altered in any way you deserve compensation. It’s pretty simple. Got nothing to do with how he turns out and everything to do with getting what you paid for.
Kabam be carful of what you do here. You might really screw yourselves over on the cull change. You're already on the community's bad side. Many people including KT1 have said that they are going to stop spending money on the game.
You said it and we saw it in the data. Although Ebony Maw is a decent Defender, he is underperforming as an Attacker (the designer said something about his Degeneration DPS being just sad and wrong).
We are looking to boost both his defensive and offensive potential, but with an emphasis on offense.
I don't know anyone who likes that degeneration, and it's not because of it's not strong enough, it's because of its existence. Like Dorms degen, but worse. He's already very annoying with his miss, adding "fun and interactive" damage doesn't make it any fun.
Btw, how is dorm after md nerf on defance? I've got an idea, make up some node like "immune to damage if there was no buff expiration last 10 seconds", would be just great! No
Also considering how people spent money on cull and how kabam already consider rdt regarding the nerf, imo only fare solution would be to give those who bought featured cull crystals same amount of crystals featuring champ of their choice for free. I'm f2p, so not affected directly, but I can see how it is a problem for those who did pay for it
the 2,3 people like Lormif stop fighting for kabam, maybe you work for kabam, I don’t know. Your guys may still don’t understand why we are upset and disappointed? It is not about one champion nerf, or how to test or the data thing. It is about kabam is trying so hard to screw themselves and destroy this game. Players like me, why we disagree this idea? Because we like this game, we don’t want to see players abandon this game because kabam’s stupid decision. This decision is ridiculers, the one in kabam who made this decision is 100% no business sense. They are trying to make players know all the money we spend is for nothing. Players paid money for THAT CHAMPION KABAM SHOW TO US. Show some respect to the players, listen what we think and what we want.
Just the opposite actually. They're not trying to destroy it. They're keeping it going. We do understand why people are upset. No one to the best of my knowledge has made the argument that people shouldn't feel a certain way. While I can't speak for anyone else, my point is there are things which are necessary for the health of the game. Those must be resolved. For that matter, there's no guarantee that a Champion will be the same as when you acquire them for the duration of the game, ever. In fact, they make the very clear stipulation that they have the right to modify their product whenever necessary.
the 2,3 people like Lormif stop fighting for kabam, maybe you work for kabam, I don’t know. Your guys may still don’t understand why we are upset and disappointed? It is not about one champion nerf, or how to test or the data thing. It is about kabam is trying so hard to screw themselves and destroy this game. Players like me, why we disagree this idea? Because we like this game, we don’t want to see players abandon this game because kabam’s stupid decision. This decision is ridiculers, the one in kabam who made this decision is 100% no business sense. They are trying to make players know all the money we spend is for nothing. Players paid money for THAT CHAMPION KABAM SHOW TO US. Show some respect to the players, listen what we think and what we want.
Just the opposite actually. They're not trying to destroy it. They're keeping it going. We do understand why people are upset. No one to the best of my knowledge has made the argument that people shouldn't feel a certain way. While I can't speak for anyone else, my point is there are things which are necessary for the health of the game. Those must be resolved. For that matter, there's no guarantee that a Champion will be the same as when you acquire them for the duration of the game, ever. In fact, they make the very clear stipulation that they have the right to modify their product whenever necessary.
I keep hearing this phrase: “health of the game.”
What exactly does that mean?
I ask because I believe a rapid hype-to-nerf cycle is far more detrimental to the game than anything Cull Obsidian could ever do.
the 2,3 people like Lormif stop fighting for kabam, maybe you work for kabam, I don’t know. Your guys may still don’t understand why we are upset and disappointed? It is not about one champion nerf, or how to test or the data thing. It is about kabam is trying so hard to screw themselves and destroy this game. Players like me, why we disagree this idea? Because we like this game, we don’t want to see players abandon this game because kabam’s stupid decision. This decision is ridiculers, the one in kabam who made this decision is 100% no business sense. They are trying to make players know all the money we spend is for nothing. Players paid money for THAT CHAMPION KABAM SHOW TO US. Show some respect to the players, listen what we think and what we want.
Just the opposite actually. They're not trying to destroy it. They're keeping it going. We do understand why people are upset. No one to the best of my knowledge has made the argument that people shouldn't feel a certain way. While I can't speak for anyone else, my point is there are things which are necessary for the health of the game. Those must be resolved. For that matter, there's no guarantee that a Champion will be the same as when you acquire them for the duration of the game, ever. In fact, they make the very clear stipulation that they have the right to modify their product whenever necessary.
I keep hearing this phrase: “health of the game.”
What exactly does that mean?
I ask because I believe a rapid hype-to-nerf cycle is far more detrimental to the game than anything Cull Obsidian could ever do.
Dr. Zola
It means if something is game breaking, exploitative, imbalanced in a way that it has subsequent side-effects, or detrimental in a way that will cause problems further down the road, it's a problem. The health of the game is a very ubiquitous statement, and it means "What's best for the game.". Which isn't necessarily what people want, but something that needs to be resolved. Without decisions like that, the game doesn't survive, and at the very least lapses into a much more broken state than anyone has seen thus far. Yep. That's what I said. Lol.
As much as people think the game has been broken at times, I don't think they quite understand the degree of which it could be much worse, or the effect of just leaving things that are detrimental because people like them. Doing that over time would result in a catastrophic mess.
the 2,3 people like Lormif stop fighting for kabam, maybe you work for kabam, I don’t know. Your guys may still don’t understand why we are upset and disappointed? It is not about one champion nerf, or how to test or the data thing. It is about kabam is trying so hard to screw themselves and destroy this game. Players like me, why we disagree this idea? Because we like this game, we don’t want to see players abandon this game because kabam’s stupid decision. This decision is ridiculers, the one in kabam who made this decision is 100% no business sense. They are trying to make players know all the money we spend is for nothing. Players paid money for THAT CHAMPION KABAM SHOW TO US. Show some respect to the players, listen what we think and what we want.
Just the opposite actually. They're not trying to destroy it. They're keeping it going. We do understand why people are upset. No one to the best of my knowledge has made the argument that people shouldn't feel a certain way. While I can't speak for anyone else, my point is there are things which are necessary for the health of the game. Those must be resolved. For that matter, there's no guarantee that a Champion will be the same as when you acquire them for the duration of the game, ever. In fact, they make the very clear stipulation that they have the right to modify their product whenever necessary.
I keep hearing this phrase: “health of the game.”
What exactly does that mean?
I ask because I believe a rapid hype-to-nerf cycle is far more detrimental to the game than anything Cull Obsidian could ever do.
Dr. Zola
It means if something is game breaking, exploitative, imbalanced in a way that it has subsequent side-effects, or detrimental in a way that will cause problems further down the road, it's a problem. The health of the game is a very ubiquitous statement, and it means "What's best for the game.". Which isn't necessarily what people want, but something that needs to be resolved. Without decisions like that, the game doesn't survive, and at the very least lapses into a much more broken state than anyone has seen thus far. Yep. That's what I said. Lol.
Cull is rarely game breaking he has so many weakness in end game content it's crazy so what is so game breaking about him
As much as people think the game has been broken at times, I don't think they quite understand the degree of which it could be much worse, or the effect of just leaving things that are detrimental because people like them. Doing that over time would result in a catastrophic mess.
While I agree with game balances like the shehulk nerf or whatever people want to call it where I disagree is with how these are done. Kabam hyped shehulk and a player who beat the champion with a low level version. If not for that hype many would not have ranked her. Then they throw a 1 line comment in the patch notes about fixing her after she has preformed this way since her release. Why not just say they have seen how this mechanic has been abused and are closing a loophole on the forum. Be transparent. The changes to champ descriptions. Well they either said they were working on a fix or ignored threads before saying we don't feel a need to change the champ we are changing the description. Again say you are looking at data to see if this ability would be op from the start. Now this balance issue. They released multiple crystals (which they made bank off of ) then drop a rebalancing thread. Things like these have given players a sense of mistrust towards the game team. There has also been a few mod posts that have come across as a bit snarky lately in threads as well as the removal of threads and posts that have added to the player base feeling the company really doesn't care about the player base. Players are feeling like they cant trust anything in the game or the kabam voices (mods) on the forums
the 2,3 people like Lormif stop fighting for kabam, maybe you work for kabam, I don’t know. Your guys may still don’t understand why we are upset and disappointed? It is not about one champion nerf, or how to test or the data thing. It is about kabam is trying so hard to screw themselves and destroy this game. Players like me, why we disagree this idea? Because we like this game, we don’t want to see players abandon this game because kabam’s stupid decision. This decision is ridiculers, the one in kabam who made this decision is 100% no business sense. They are trying to make players know all the money we spend is for nothing. Players paid money for THAT CHAMPION KABAM SHOW TO US. Show some respect to the players, listen what we think and what we want.
Just the opposite actually. They're not trying to destroy it. They're keeping it going. We do understand why people are upset. No one to the best of my knowledge has made the argument that people shouldn't feel a certain way. While I can't speak for anyone else, my point is there are things which are necessary for the health of the game. Those must be resolved. For that matter, there's no guarantee that a Champion will be the same as when you acquire them for the duration of the game, ever. In fact, they make the very clear stipulation that they have the right to modify their product whenever necessary.
see, you still don’t understand. What is the health game you are keep saying? I think more player want to spend money, then kabam can make money, then maybe they wants to use some profit to develop this game, that is health game. If most players don’t spend money anymore or abandon this game, what is the point of balance or game health
I just found out about this. what the hell. In this situation there is no way rank down tickets are going to be enough. I cant remember how much real world money i spent trying to get Cull (which i never did other than a 4* which i decided to max out since i couldn't pull the 5* after many tries) but it was more than any other openings i have done so it was north of 6000 units.
Kabam is going to have to be careful on how they deal with this situation as a lot of people including me could quit over how this is all handled. Rank down tickets are not going to be close to enough. It doesnt matter what champs i pulled when i tried to go for him. The point is I never would have spent anywhere close to that much money if it wasn't for the kind of champ I thought I had a chance at getting.
the 2,3 people like Lormif stop fighting for kabam, maybe you work for kabam, I don’t know. Your guys may still don’t understand why we are upset and disappointed? It is not about one champion nerf, or how to test or the data thing. It is about kabam is trying so hard to screw themselves and destroy this game. Players like me, why we disagree this idea? Because we like this game, we don’t want to see players abandon this game because kabam’s stupid decision. This decision is ridiculers, the one in kabam who made this decision is 100% no business sense. They are trying to make players know all the money we spend is for nothing. Players paid money for THAT CHAMPION KABAM SHOW TO US. Show some respect to the players, listen what we think and what we want.
Just the opposite actually. They're not trying to destroy it. They're keeping it going. We do understand why people are upset. No one to the best of my knowledge has made the argument that people shouldn't feel a certain way. While I can't speak for anyone else, my point is there are things which are necessary for the health of the game. Those must be resolved. For that matter, there's no guarantee that a Champion will be the same as when you acquire them for the duration of the game, ever. In fact, they make the very clear stipulation that they have the right to modify their product whenever necessary.
see, you still don’t understand. What is the health game you are keep saying? I think more player want to spend money, then kabam can make money, then maybe they wants to use some profit to develop this game, that is health game. If most players don’t spend money anymore or abandon this game, what is the point of balance or game health
If they don't resolve problems that will break the game down the road, there isn't anything left to spend on. The health of the game isn't about money.
Comments
Yes, 12.1 was different than 12.0. That's true. But I'm not saying it wasn't different. I'm saying 12.1 didn't "fix" the things that the "death of the game" people were complaining about. That makes them wrong, either because they were incorrect the changes would kill the game, or they were wrong about which things were important to complain about in the first place.
When you say I don't understand "this argument" there's no argument I'm replying to here. I'm replying to an assertion: that someone thinks nerfs are bad for business and thinks anecdotes about spending reductions are significant. But these things happen every day, and have happened after every major change to the game. After 12.0, it became fashionable for players to exclaim, whenever a change happened they didn't like, that we should "start a boycott." I kept saying then that this was a mistake: calling for a boycott every time a change took place wasn't just worthless, it was less than worthless because it quickly became an empty threat. Eventually it wasn't just me pointing that out: try calling for a "boycott" on the forums now: you'll get a lot of people sighing.
The same thing is true about people claiming to know what changes will cost Kabam money. Kabam execs can actually look at their retention and revenue data, we can't. Every time someone makes this assertion and the numbers prove them wrong, it simply makes that particular threat increasingly silly.
People quit all the time, people stop spending all the time. A "warning" from the community regarding spending has no teeth. If it actually happens and it is noticeable Kabam will notice it whether the community "warns" them or not. Conversely, if the community warns them and it doesn't happen, that warning just reminds Kabam how little the forums actually represent the majority of players, and weakens our ability to have our voices heard.
Ultimately, game companies don't care what players say, they care what players do. If what we say mirrors what players do, our voices have credibility. If it doesn't we don't. I'm sure someone will come along and say that Kabam doesn't have credibility either. But that's irrelevant. We need credibility for Kabam to listen to us. Kabam doesn't need credibility to change the game any way they want. If they don't listen to us and we don't listen to them in return, the only people who lose is us, not them. The game doesn't depend on the couple thousand of us. It mostly depends on the hundreds of thousands or millions of players that don't post on forums or Reddit, and for that matter mostly don't care about anything we're discussing. Most players, even most spenders, are only superficially involved in these issues, if at all. Kabam needs them. It doesn't need us. If we're going to make a difference, we can't keep making empty threats and throwing tantrums and thinking we lead an army of players behind us. There's no one behind us. Its just us.
We agree on companies reacting to what players do. I wasn't a forum visitor when 12.0 hit. I got my information on youtube, I didn't need to make my response online to stop spending. There are plenty of guys that don't post that feel the same way I do now. Kabam can take this lightly if they won't and they likely will but when it impacts their wallets things will change, I'm just trying to get them ahead of the game so they don't have to back pedal and revisit. Which is often what they do.
A generic 5* awakening gem is so rare why take the risk?
You can't blame Kabam for making an impulsive decision.
They should tweak only champs that came out after their announcement.
The devs hit Thor twice: once in eliminating stacking, and again in changing how armor break itself worked (this affected other champs that used armor break as well, which was discussed on the forums). The first change was really overkill in the presence of the second change, which is why Kabam softened it.
(Note: that's not how armor break works now. Its changed several times since then, and now it seems to be affected by DR whereas originally it was not).
Basically, Kabam was able to give back one stack of armor break because armor break itself was neutered. This was something most players didn't seem to notice or understand at the time.
As to the rest, I should point out even if you don't believe CR had no effect on Parry (it did not), they very obviously didn't eliminate block penetration or the other attributes added in 12.0 like critical resistance, and explicitly *stated* that they didn't eliminate block penetration. What they did was roll back all the block penetration buffs they gave to a wide range of champions in 12.0, but they kept the stat and said they would use it in future champions, which they did.
🐻
Btw, how is dorm after md nerf on defance? I've got an idea, make up some node like "immune to damage if there was no buff expiration last 10 seconds", would be just great! No
What exactly does that mean?
I ask because I believe a rapid hype-to-nerf cycle is far more detrimental to the game than anything Cull Obsidian could ever do.
Dr. Zola
The changes to champ descriptions. Well they either said they were working on a fix or ignored threads before saying we don't feel a need to change the champ we are changing the description. Again say you are looking at data to see if this ability would be op from the start.
Now this balance issue. They released multiple crystals (which they made bank off of ) then drop a rebalancing thread.
Things like these have given players a sense of mistrust towards the game team. There has also been a few mod posts that have come across as a bit snarky lately in threads as well as the removal of threads and posts that have added to the player base feeling the company really doesn't care about the player base. Players are feeling like they cant trust anything in the game or the kabam voices (mods) on the forums
see, you still don’t understand. What is the health game you are keep saying? I think more player want to spend money, then kabam can make money, then maybe they wants to use some profit to develop this game, that is health game. If most players don’t spend money anymore or abandon this game, what is the point of balance or game health
Kabam is going to have to be careful on how they deal with this situation as a lot of people including me could quit over how this is all handled. Rank down tickets are not going to be close to enough. It doesnt matter what champs i pulled when i tried to go for him. The point is I never would have spent anywhere close to that much money if it wasn't for the kind of champ I thought I had a chance at getting.
so ya....best of luck Kabam