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15.0 Alliance Wars Update Discussion Thread

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    DD2DD2 Posts: 309 ★★★
    @Kabam Miike

    On what planet does having a weaker defender provide any benefit in a contest where having the most effective defenders gives the greatest chances for victory?

    Seriously, please explain this.
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    PonyboyPonyboy Posts: 122 ★
    We can eventually iron out the points fiasco

    Bigger issue is "correcting" diversity throughout alliance instead of each BG. Makes sense all arguments about each BG being contained and not fighting the other BGs.

    Save the diversity throughout alliance for Bases
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    FPC3FPC3 Posts: 144 ★★
    I have a few champions I ranked SPECIFICALLY for Defense. I would have left them as 3/30 arena fodder otherwise. In this current War setup, they are now a WASTE of my resources. Good job, Kabam!
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    LocoMotivesLocoMotives Posts: 1,200 ★★★
    TomieCzech wrote: »
    LocoMotives wrote: »
    I have a situation that may not have been brought up yet (can't be sure). With "diversity" being so important now, players at high levels will invariably rank up champs with no other in-game use purely to have a 3/45 spider Gwen or LC on defense. Players also change allies fairly regularly, so let's say Player A goes to a new ally where Player B has a 3/45 spider Gwen or LC that is a higher level. The champ is no good for defense anymore and the cats that Player A used to rank that champ have been wasted because one other person in the ally had the same motivation.

    Now you can say us ranking is our own choice and we shouldn't rank said champion, but wars will be decided purely on diversity/rating in higher tiers. Having a 3/45 LC (and a few others) vs having a 2/35 will be the difference in some wars between winning and losing.

    So any player wanting to play at tier 1 will need to rank oddball champs or his/her defense will be worthless to the ally. This also puts a premium on players with unavailable champs. You're asking us to throw away the catalysts that we grind for into bad defenders and disregard the ones we already wasted on good defenders in the name of "diversity". We NEED defender kills and attacker kills to be restored. Keep diversity, but have the game make sense again. Please?

    The rank doesn't matter, the nodes are too easy to beat. No more full immunity, not so many stun immune nodes, to be honest at high lvl war players play so well it doesn't matter whether the pi is 10k or 4k.

    The war is messed up, I don't think anyone there thought it trough.

    You missed my point. People won't rank the bad champs so they're better defenders, they will rank them because defensive rating really matters in the current setup. The allies that rank up Kamala and Fixit and IP will win more wars because of this. And I think it's dumb. Diversity only works if attacker and defender kills are still valuable. Something like:

    Attacker kill: 150 pts
    Defender kill: 100 pts
    Defender diversity: 50 pts
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    nuggznuggz Posts: 124
    You will now see alliances advertising like this

    Due to diversity we are seeking a player that has these champs for defense

    5/50 equivalent or greater
    Jane foster, Sim, She Hulk, magneto, hulkbuster.
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    andrade5184andrade5184 Posts: 285 ★★
    bjrxf4rdxuhk.png
    another photo of a bs diversity win. thanks kabam
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    andrade5184andrade5184 Posts: 285 ★★
    its not bad enough that we get outmatched every war by 2-4 million higher rated alliances. now they get the edge on diversity as well as defender rating. way to make it near impossible for a decent rated ally with tons of skills to get the top rewards yet again.
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    JaffacakedJaffacaked Posts: 1,415 ★★★★
    Kabam even made a point of saying not every champ is for attack an some are just great for defence, the whole point of a WAR is to fight kill an stomp your opponent to death, it's great to see your defence get loads of kills an they actually contribute to the win
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    Cma1323Cma1323 Posts: 68 ★
    Ok so people that are skilled and spent time ranking up the best defenders for war hate diversity. And the ones without the best defensive champs and probably less skilled want diversity. Me personally I think the diversity thing is stupid and I just got what I needed to r5 my NC for defense but haven't yet to see how this plays out. But it doesn't seem like diversity is going away so this would perhaps he the best option for both camps. Bring back defensive kills for those that have spent time and resources setting up the defense they have wanted and keep diversity (for each BG not the whole alliance) for those that don't have the best defensive champs and let each alliance decide how they want to play it. Based on skill or based on strategy. This way rank down tickets don't have to be handed out to everyone and both sides get what they want. It is war after all and for some alliances using 10 NC, 10 magik, 10 juggs might be there best way to win and others it might be throwing in LC, KK, IP, and some of the other lackluster champs in the game. It is braun vs. brain but don't force any alliance to play to their weakness. Diversity can add another element of strategy if it is done the right way, but so far it hasn't been. So if it is staying make it right and do what is right by the other side opposing it and bring back defender kills.
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    phillgreenphillgreen Posts: 3,685 ★★★★★
    I wonder if introducing diversity might force people to rank garbage champs rather than hoarding resources and is designed around artificially creating a need for 4* that no one would bother with now that 5* pool is expanding and 6* are coming.

    May as well use maxed 3* in defence and still hoard the good stuff.

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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,248 ★★★★★
    edited September 2017
    @Draco2199 If I'm not mistaken, the new setup will curb that. It will take time to rebalance, but with Defender Kills removed, it allows for a more even playing field. Diversity is easy to consider with as many Champs as we have. As long as the opposition has sufficient Attack, they have a chance of winning. The problem was widely prominent when said Allies that were cherry picking were able to accumulate Defender Kills. I don't think it's been swept under the rug. I think it will be rebalanced.
    Also, you're not alone in your concern. It may be within the rules, but it's created a monopoly on positions. It affects the entire system because when the top is retaining their position from doing so, everything under them is stunted. There is only so much progression that can happen when there is some kind of loophole ensuring homeostasis. It's an interdependent system that is Tiered. Anything at any juncture besides the very bottom affects everything under it.
    TL:DR - I hear what you're saying. That's an unfair situation, and I'm speculating that the new changes will help.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,248 ★★★★★
    Makes no difference to me.
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    GriffoplayGriffoplay Posts: 269 ★
    Can someone answer those questions please?
    1) What is the point on grinding arena champions and opening featured cristals for the entire ally if just one placed heroes count for point porpouse?

    2) Now that the entire ally have rancked to r5 a 4* or r4 a 5* like mordo, Dorma, Magik, Jug, Nc, and spidy, what we do with those champs? we litteraly waste a lot of resource.
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    FPC3FPC3 Posts: 144 ★★
    Don't worry guys! Everything is WORKING AS INTENDED!
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    DD2DD2 Posts: 309 ★★★
    Captain_Amazing wrote: »
    When even Seatin is calling out how bad AW is and saying Kabam should be handing out rank down tickets you know you have a problem.

    Rank down tickets don't do anything.

    It's like using duct tape to fix a home's broken foundation. It only bandaids the situation.

    AW is completely broken.

    Challenger is the problem every time the generation of stars gets released.

    These need to be overhauled, giving rank down tickets doesn't solve anything.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,248 ★★★★★
    linux wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    @Draco2199 If I'm not mistaken, the new setup will curb that. It will take time to rebalance, but with Defender Kills removed, it allows for a more even playing field. Diversity is easy to consider with as many Champs as we have. As long as the opposition has sufficient Attack, they have a chance of winning. The problem was widely prominent when said Allies that were cherry picking were able to accumulate Defender Kills. I don't think it's been swept under the rug. I think it will be rebalanced.
    Also, you're not alone in your concern. It may be within the rules, but it's created a monopoly on positions. It affects the entire system because when the top is retaining their position from doing so, everything under them is stunted. There is only so much progression that can happen when there is some kind of loophole ensuring homeostasis. It's an interdependent system that is Tiered. Anything at any juncture besides the very bottom affects everything under it.
    TL:DR - I hear what you're saying. That's an unfair situation, and I'm speculating that the new changes will help.

    Are you able to acknowledge that Kabam makes mistakes too? Because -- like everyone -- they do. Companies are successful not because they fail to acknowledge mistakes, but because they learn from them.

    If both alliances clear the map 100% (which is quite possible, we've ranged from 98-100% in t2/t3 since 15.0 ... IMO we should be clearing all, but sometimes someone doesn't finish their line or their miniboss -- we don't spend), then wins will be based on two things: diversity and defender rating. That is obviously poor design.
    You're entitled to your opinion. I expressed mine on what Draco was concerned about. I'm not getting into the debate of whether it's good or bad anymore. I have no issues with the changes. I had no issue with the old system, and I have no issues with this one. That's my feelings on it. I understand what the new setup does and what its aim is. I also understand the problems that arose before the changes. So, no. I'm not siding with the idea that it's a bad design because I don't agree. I'm not interested in debating it anymore. I'm not on the bandwagon. It's change. It's different than it was. At the end of the day, it's about getting the most Points. If that means having a chance instead of being penalized for trying and getting overpowered before the fight even starts, I'm cool with it.
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    General_VisGeneral_Vis Posts: 138
    Funnily enough I think the old map layout would have been more suited to the new points system. It would force alliances to use a bit strategy and decide whether to fill their defence with 'good' defenders to stop the opponent competing / exploring the map, or fill the defence with diverse defenders, knowing that your defence will be weaker but you'll pick up more diversity points.

    As thing stand there's no dilemma - diversity rules over all. You can fill your defence with all of the top defenders but they'll still be walked over due to the weak nodes. It doesn't matter if you stick Mordo or Spider Gwen down. It doesn't even matter 'where' you put defenders apart from the odd one or two nodes.

    When Kabam first mentioned diversity brings a tie breaker it didn't sound too bad, but then it became apparent that due to the map layout pretty much ever war will end up being decided on the tie breaker.
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    FabiFabi Posts: 64
    INTEGRAL wrote: »
    Bring back the old AW! What is this? People are asking if someone has a different champ. Why did we grind in arena and rank up all the defenders we have?

    You are killing the game. Why don't you listen to the players? We are playing the game not you! People will stop playing this game very soon

    100% agree
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    AcanthusAcanthus Posts: 447 ★★★
    Sinister7th wrote: »
    vikky89 wrote: »
    Grub wrote: »
    vikky89 wrote: »
    Grub wrote: »
    Well here is my 2 cents from a member of a top 3 alliance in the game regarding the war changes. I really don't mind them but these changes were brought about by the community and the countless threads demanding change to AW. Let me explain how I have come to this conclusion.

    1) My RNG sucks I have useless champ good for nothing in the game. This was a common thread on these forums, guess what that R3 5* hulkbuster is no longer useless even if he does not get defender kills cause he grants more defender rating then a 3/4* version.
    2) I am sick of the top alliances making shell alliances. This was also another common thread on these forums, well they have lowered the difficulty of the nodes so people no longer have to create shell alliances because the fight to 100% the map no longer costs more units then the rewards are worth (an equal work/reward ratio) and you can actually complete maps in the tier you should be in.
    3) the big alliances are fixing matchmaking to avoid each other. Another common complaint that is posted here quite often. Guess what with defender kills being removed, the map difficulty toned done to an equal reward/work ratio alliances no longer care about possibly missing a third war to avoid matchmaking each other. As an example MMX lost to A-H just recently (last night) so this new system can work in the under dogs favor if your smart.

    So in conclusion you guys complain Kabam doesn't listen but in matter of fact this current abomination we now have called war is because they listened and tried to address all the Whitney self entitled children who frequent these forums. As the old saying goes "be careful what you wish for cause you might just get it".

    1) RNG sucks for many and HB sucks too. So there are many champs in game that are useless in offense or defense. So instead of demanding kabam to buff these champs, you want to make AW garbage just to accommodate those crappy champs.
    2) There is no "an equal work/reward ratio" under new setup. Almost every ally can 100% now in new map. Wars are decided purely by diversity/defender rating. So AW is already decided even before you start attacking. Anyone who can buy new champs will win or anyone with rare champs like OG vision kang thanos will win. How is this setup fair. Its a completely one sided setup which heavily favors spenders or ally with higher rating.
    3) Did you even see the stats btw MMX-AH matchup. They got full diversity but lost because A-H placed 5 less defenders, after nerfing attack kill points it wont happen anymore.
    Actually that is not why they won but glad you buy into it like they want you to. They actually did something that no one had done yet in war and that is what got them the win not placing 5 less defenders.

    From what I have seen from war screen that was posted on Reddit, thats the only thing I could find. We will be glad to know what you meant by this - "They actually did something that no one had done yet in war " ???

    svm2nxlyfpf6.jpg

    AH placed champs with suicide masteries. They won because of defender rating.

    And boosted aswell I believe (not sure)
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    CyberCCyberC Posts: 13
    Some suggestions
    - Let kills count, even if it is a small amount of points but we should get something for decent defense. (its war not a dance)
    - Instead of giving us points for diversity penalise a team for placing too many dupes i.e. 3 magiks. This will allow us to use our favourite champs and give a bit more flexibility in placement (not fun for officers).
    - Make a few nodes a little harder (too easy to get 100%)
    - Please stop brushing our concerns aside. more players enjoying the game = more profits for you
This discussion has been closed.