I think we need to give it a shot, because it is something, but im not sure i totally enjoy the 'making it a buff' idea either. I still hate this whole idea of a whole roster of champions who's abilities require you to crit, or end fights quickly and hoping for a crit, to now punishing for a crit, with few options (I dont need suggestions for counters, I have a few and theyve helped me greatly).
The ability to remove it regardless of stun is nice, but that still means youll be taking block damage for 3-5 hits because you know the AI will make sure we take the block damage.
This feels so specialized it should be a node or a route - not a global.
What is it with this forum and people creating new thread after new thread when there is an existing thread on the same subject. I don't understand, please explain?
Not sure what everyone is complaining about. My r5 Mojo War bods was just soloed in the last war using magik. I took my magik and g2099 up to r5 just to counter this defense and the alliance invested heavily into ranking flow champs just for defense and now they nerf it?
I am just getting sick of the bait and switches. If the idea is to make the defense global weak then make it weak from the start. Don't bring out a crazy hard defensive node and then water it down after some people counter it and invest into it.
Don’t complain that you had to rank up G2099 and magik cause those are both awesome champs.
That said, which champs did they upgrade for defense? Mojo, warlock, dormammu, mr sinister? Except for warlock those are all affected by siphon as well. If someone upgraded a diablo to go with flow defense well then that just isn’t very bright
It's still a bait and switch maneuver. Those champions you listed are nowhere near as good on Siphon as they are on Flow. And I wouldn't have even ranked up Magik or G2099 had I known I could just shut off the Flow Power Gains with a well-timed block. IMIW won't have near the usefulness either since you can just well-time block his projectile attack and shut off the power gain as well.
Don't get me wrong. War is going to be 100% easier for us on attack as well. But they are punishing people who invested into and adapted to the system they created. They have been doing this a lot lately. Creating content, and then realizing months later that they want to change it. That's why you're supposed to do extensive testing on this stuff before you release it to the public. There's absolutely no reason this should be happening as often as it does.
Then you really have no idea how good magik and G2099 are. A charged G2099 outdamages every other champ against a 200k+ life opponent, she takes almost no block damage with her armor and she has a nice heal at 15% cause only a baboon uses her pre-fight abilities.
There has never been a better power control champ in the game than magik. You might say her damage sucks but then I dare you to bring warlock with her.
The fact that you don’t know how great those two champs are just shows me you’re at best an average player.
As to their use for siphon. Magik can heal back all the block damage from blocked hits when she is in limbo so she’s equally great. G2099 might be outpowered by warlock for siphon because of his greater health pool but the difference ain’t that big
I have moved on from 5* and am focused solely on 6* champions at this point. I have no content to do, as everything is 100% completed. AoL Legend run, 100% Act 6, all Variants. Everything. Done. I have a full T5CC Tech for G2099 as a 6* when I pull her. I have 27 R5 5* champions. R3 Dominio, Doom, Cap IW and Morningstar as soon as I get a few thousand more T5B as well as R2 Sabretooth, Corvus, Sym Supreme, Havok and Thing.
However, as I said, I ranked Magik and G2099 as 5* to help cope with the Flow node.I typically use Morningstar to counter any champion that gets Power gain as she neuters them and gets a power gain of her own. Otherwise I'll phase the sp3. Magik's utility is the power drain and power lock of sp2. In anything other than war (and maybe Abyss) you can get the same utility out of her as an r4, and just have a longer fight. I ranked Mojo just for the boss node for Flow. He is going to be completely useless there now. And he's a cakewalk on Siphon.
I quit my Plat4 Alliance about a month ago, because the effort and stress that comes along with AW makes the game far less enjoyable to me, personally.
First time in 4 years that I’ve been without an alliance for 2+ weeks, and I am loving it. Play the content that I enjoy playing, and no extra stress from making sure my energy is used up, and not holding anyone else up with link nodes, waiting on links to a boss to come down.
People might not like the challenge it adds. That's a separate debate. If someone says it's not challenging, that's not something that can be logically debated. We wouldn't even be discussing it if it was easy to get past.
and on what basis are "you" saying that's it's challenging you have ignored everything everyone keep saying that its not challenging its just basically impossible to control rng skill isn't there at all
but oh no ok you will keep repeating the same thing that its challenging because you very obviously have never experienced it and no matter what so many people keep saying a person with no exp will try to keep telling us that its just challenging and bring "counters" Damn man why didn't we think of that? All the rest of the player base might as well bow down to you for presenting us with advice like this all the time.
It's not challenging, but it IS challenging to have the right counter. Not but it is. How dat work doe? If you haven't noticed, the game is designed around specific counters. That's one aspect of adding difficulty. You can argue that's not "skill" it's "RNG", but it's another layer. Been that way a long time. We just don't notice unless we don't have the right counter, or have it Ranked.
With the horrible reviews on #Flow, something needs to be done in order to keep the player base interested in war mode. I know Kabaam has posted something with their adjustment idea, but I don't think its quite enough in my opinion.
I feel that if they made the power gain a regular buff instead of a passive, it would open the door to several other counters as it could be staggered/nullified. It's a simple adjustment and this would be a lot more manageable all around for us... Thoughts??
This was one of several suggestions listed before this latest season started. Like all the other suggestions, it fell on deaf ears.
You can do that, but Season Rewards will still go out, and someone will move up. The Rewards are based on Points put up relative to other Points. Even if no one chooses to run Tiers 1-5, someone will still get Master, Plat, etc.
You can do that, but Season Rewards will still go out, and someone will move up. The Rewards are based on Points put up relative to other Points. Even if no one chooses to run Tiers 1-5, someone will still get Master, Plat, etc.
🤦♂️ Pretty sure the idea is showing kabam the community dislikes their update?
You can do that, but Season Rewards will still go out, and someone will move up. The Rewards are based on Points put up relative to other Points. Even if no one chooses to run Tiers 1-5, someone will still get Master, Plat, etc.
🤦♂️ Pretty sure the idea is showing kabam the community dislikes their update?
Pretty sure they can read the response here, so that's just an attempt to get it nerfed. Pretty futile when they already made an adjustment and said they would revisit it after the next Season and were open to more changes if need-be.
You can do that, but Season Rewards will still go out, and someone will move up. The Rewards are based on Points put up relative to other Points. Even if no one chooses to run Tiers 1-5, someone will still get Master, Plat, etc.
🤦♂️ Pretty sure the idea is showing kabam the community dislikes their update?
Pretty sure they can read the response here, so that's just an attempt to get it nerfed. Pretty futile when they already made an adjustment and said they would revisit it after the next Season and were open to more changes if need-be.
Not really. They already said that nothing said on these forums is "data" for them, so actually making the change in-game is the only way to actually translate it into data.
@UmbertoDelRio i totally agree with your alliances approach and if others do it that’s great. The problem is for every alliance who does this there will be 3-4 who say “sweet easy wars for me and I can milk a jump or 2 in tiers this season!”
For this to work we would need more than 60% of alliances to tank like people did in the 12.0 years back. Thats the only way kabam knows how to listen.
Just reduce the power gain. Keep a cooldown. Still has the challenge but makes it manageable with multiple champs. So many ways to make Flow a better Defense Tactic than a money making opportunity.
@UmbertoDelRio i totally agree with your alliances approach and if others do it that’s great. The problem is for every alliance who does this there will be 3-4 who say “sweet easy wars for me and I can milk a jump or 2 in tiers this season!”
For this to work we would need more than 60% of alliances to tank like people did in the 12.0 years back. Thats the only way kabam knows how to listen.
Oh I absolutely agree with you and I honestly don't see the majority of this actually going through with it.
Don't get me wrong, the reason for me and my alliance taking this step is fundamentally about how little fun aw is to us individually in it's current state. The main goal of this is for us to get rid of the stress, the drama and the costs all of this brings with it.
What I would recommend others to do is to take that into consideration, for themselves and their well-being, not nessecarily for a greater good.
Now, if a noticeable amount of alliances decided to step back from aw and if that resulted in changes, then I'd be glad to hear that. But from my perspective I've already won by breaking out of that horribly designed and balanced game mode.
Yup definitely. How did your alliance take it? We almost decided to go 6x5 and just land in gold 1 bur half the alliance didn’t want that and recruiting for half an alliance is a major pain.
Was 75% or more of the alliance on board? Or did it take convincing? @UmbertoDelRio
You can do that, but Season Rewards will still go out, and someone will move up. The Rewards are based on Points put up relative to other Points. Even if no one chooses to run Tiers 1-5, someone will still get Master, Plat, etc.
🤦♂️ Pretty sure the idea is showing kabam the community dislikes their update?
Pretty sure they can read the response here, so that's just an attempt to get it nerfed. Pretty futile when they already made an adjustment and said they would revisit it after the next Season and were open to more changes if need-be.
Not really. They already said that nothing said on these forums is "data" for them, so actually making the change in-game is the only way to actually translate it into data.
What they meant by that was feedback alone is not how changes are gauged and made. They listen to the feedback, and also confer with the data. It's really quite prudent to approach things that way. It means no drastic changes to improvements. For all intents and purposes, they're not removing Flow and they're not nerfing it to the ground. What they are willing to do is adjust it within reason, and that takes more than just responses. Obviously they can see that people don't like it. That doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be taken out completely.
First of they write its a powergain BUFF with every crit. You can disable it while stunned.
So I thought okay 2 counterplays for that doesnt sound too bad. You can stun them (ofc not on stunimmune nodes which are 7 or 8 and its tricky vs IMIW)
2nd counter play: nullify them right? Since its a buff? Wrong they are passives.
And when we open a bug post about it. Oh lets change the description. It stays passive. Like what?
That global node is too strong. You have like 5 counters in the game vs that:
Ghost/hood (tank SP3, GL if they play passive tho/ like waiting your phase and use SP3 after/ happend to me 3 times)
Quake
Crossbones (debatable if he is good enough vs R5s in Tier 3 or higher)
Gulli2099
Cap IW with parry heavy and hope not too many crits
Some more champs can work but it depends a lot on RNG:
magik (hope you got to SP2 before they SP3 so hope you dont crit and they throw their SPs)
Iceman can work to some point with RNG as well (hope you dont crit)
Void hope for petrifies
Luke Cage hope for exhaustions
Please change this node. It sucks the fun out of high tier wars.
Totally agree with you mate.. it's sometimes makes me feel like it's a money making tactics by Kabam. Buy potions from glory and if not then buy units.. This flow has been a pain, especially on node 36 sometimes. It turns out to be CheckMate situation
in season 17
I had fought duped
5* 153 sig HT 6* Yondu Duped 5* 200 sig Hyperion 5* Nick fury duped on this node with this flow.
and it was hell to wipe out opponents..
I really don't get it when you guys say you discuss.. then pls keep the discussion on the forum with all veterans to avg summoners and not just few veterans having youtube channel...
I would urge you guys to keep an open forum and allow every summoners who wants to give feedback to make this game interesting. This will help in long-run.
Cheers happy gaming
None of those 4 champs you listed are control champs, so flow doesn’t affect them. Also HT sig is meaningless on defense and Yondu’s dupe doesn’t really make him any harder.
@UmbertoDelRio i totally agree with your alliances approach and if others do it that’s great. The problem is for every alliance who does this there will be 3-4 who say “sweet easy wars for me and I can milk a jump or 2 in tiers this season!”
For this to work we would need more than 60% of alliances to tank like people did in the 12.0 years back. Thats the only way kabam knows how to listen.
Oh I absolutely agree with you and I honestly don't see the majority of this actually going through with it.
Don't get me wrong, the reason for me and my alliance taking this step is fundamentally about how little fun aw is to us individually in it's current state. The main goal of this is for us to get rid of the stress, the drama and the costs all of this brings with it.
What I would recommend others to do is to take that into consideration, for themselves and their well-being, not nessecarily for a greater good.
Now, if a noticeable amount of alliances decided to step back from aw and if that resulted in changes, then I'd be glad to hear that. But from my perspective I've already won by breaking out of that horribly designed and balanced game mode.
Yup definitely. How did your alliance take it? We almost decided to go 6x5 and just land in gold 1 bur half the alliance didn’t want that and recruiting for half an alliance is a major pain.
Was 75% or more of the alliance on board? Or did it take convincing? @UmbertoDelRio
I don't want to tell too long of a story, but let me start by saying that fortunately in my alliance we're on a really friendly basis.
Now, I organize essentially everything. I have 3 people to have an eye on aq and 1 person to sometimes help keep aw in check when I'm unavailable, but I do the bg organisation, path assignment, defense, etc. for the 2 bg's we ran. The highest we've been was tier 5 and we almost managed to get into gold 2 this season. This is mostly because our members range from newly uncollected casuals to invested cavalier players.
And don't get me wrong, this is how I wanted to do it. I like organizing stuff and I like being in control (not in a dictator fashion, more in a "if something goes wrong I know who's at fault" type of way). And my members trust me and are glad to have it the way it is.
After this season ended and after I read about the future changes to flow I had a heart to heart with my members telling them that I feel burned out by aw. I told them that I can't go on pushing them to invest time and ressources/money into a game mode that to me does not have much of a future.
My personal aw attack team consists of cap iw, a tech champ and quake, but witnessing my members across the bank struggle, get frustrated and be discouraged about their skills simply because they lack proper counters to certain opponents on certain nodes with flow was disheartening.
Long story short, they told me that they've got my back and most even appreciated my decision personally. Most actually felt the same and are now glad to have more time and energy to focus on aq and solo progression.
I hope those who are in a similar position right now will also get the support they need from their members.
I just left my alliance, joined an AQ focused on and for the first time since the Glory store update, brought rank up materials instead of refilling pots
Feels good. I really hope more and more alliances push back this way.
Since the update to the glory store I have zero reason to play AW. It's fantanstic! Have fun with flow wars, only Kabam wins.
Even with this change I still worry about how boring flow actually is.. 2 hits, parry, dodge special and repeat? Talk about sapping any fun out of the game
I think the change is marginally helpful, but as many have brought up, it's the magnitude of the power gain coupled with an AI that can turtle for a few seconds and you're just done. Being able to execute a well timed block won't help if they turtle up. I think it was Munash who posted a war video where he went against a mordo on Aegis heavy. Yea you can parry him on that fight. No limber or stun/debuff immune. He still ate something like 4 S3 in that fight though.
I think the change is marginally helpful, but as many have brought up, it's the magnitude of the power gain coupled with an AI that can turtle for a few seconds and you're just done. Being able to execute a well timed block won't help if they turtle up. I think it was Munash who posted a war video where he went against a mordo on Aegis heavy. Yea you can parry him on that fight. No limber or stun/debuff immune. He still ate something like 4 S3 in that fight though.
Any talks of AI who turtle and we'll get the standard reply of "there is nothing programmed that way". Yet the player base knows how AI in wars just love to hold specials
Well... well timed block also sucks with flow Fought Black Widow Claire V on stun immune... You crit, she gain power... you try well-timed block she also gain power (from her ability). Died 3 time this war, all vs Flow champs, all from sp3... I hate war since you came with this node
Well... well timed block also sucks with flow Fought Black Widow Claire V on stun immune... You crit, she gain power... you try well-timed block she also gain power (from her ability). Died 3 time this war, all vs Flow champs, all from sp3... I hate war since you came with this node
I literally just fought bwcv on debuff immune and that's exactly what happened too. Just feeding her power no matter what. She also managed to dex or parry all my phase intercepts with ghost... This AI...
in the "News & Announcements" page > "Results of Book 2 Act 1 Chapter 1 Beta Test" thread you (Kabam) wrote: "We also acknowledge that “optimal play” shouldn’t mean “bring 1 of these 5 specific champs”, or “I hope you like intercepting”, except for in very specific situations"
but i guess this is not relevant for 3 times a week in War when you have a full map that that require bringing specific champion to counter Flow or intercept the entire fight to counter the Villainy node (or of course use a lot of items to heal the chip damage)
Can confirm, the new version of flow is still garbage. It's every bg, in every war. It's at least as boring, pointless, and unrewarding as the worst period of mystic wars.
Comments
I think we need to give it a shot, because it is something, but im not sure i totally enjoy the 'making it a buff' idea either. I still hate this whole idea of a whole roster of champions who's abilities require you to crit, or end fights quickly and hoping for a crit, to now punishing for a crit, with few options (I dont need suggestions for counters, I have a few and theyve helped me greatly).
The ability to remove it regardless of stun is nice, but that still means youll be taking block damage for 3-5 hits because you know the AI will make sure we take the block damage.
This feels so specialized it should be a node or a route - not a global.
I don't understand, please explain?
However, as I said, I ranked Magik and G2099 as 5* to help cope with the Flow node.I typically use Morningstar to counter any champion that gets Power gain as she neuters them and gets a power gain of her own. Otherwise I'll phase the sp3. Magik's utility is the power drain and power lock of sp2. In anything other than war (and maybe Abyss) you can get the same utility out of her as an r4, and just have a longer fight. I ranked Mojo just for the boss node for Flow. He is going to be completely useless there now. And he's a cakewalk on Siphon.
First time in 4 years that I’ve been without an alliance for 2+ weeks, and I am loving it. Play the content that I enjoy playing, and no extra stress from making sure my energy is used up, and not holding anyone else up with link nodes, waiting on links to a boss to come down.
Stuff get tedious and very tiresome.
If you haven't noticed, the game is designed around specific counters. That's one aspect of adding difficulty. You can argue that's not "skill" it's "RNG", but it's another layer. Been that way a long time. We just don't notice unless we don't have the right counter, or have it Ranked.
For this to work we would need more than 60% of alliances to tank like people did in the 12.0 years back. Thats the only way kabam knows how to listen.
Was 75% or more of the alliance on board? Or did it take convincing? @UmbertoDelRio
Fought Black Widow Claire V on stun immune...
You crit, she gain power... you try well-timed block she also gain power (from her ability).
Died 3 time this war, all vs Flow champs, all from sp3...
I hate war since you came with this node
"We also acknowledge that “optimal play” shouldn’t mean “bring 1 of these 5 specific champs”, or “I hope you like intercepting”, except for in very specific situations"
but i guess this is not relevant for 3 times a week in War when you have a full map that that require bringing specific champion to counter Flow or intercept the entire fight to counter the Villainy node (or of course use a lot of items to heal the chip damage)