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Flow global node in War [Merged Threads]

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Comments

  • Player1994Player1994 Posts: 793 ★★★
    that fix is doing nothing the true problem is that when a defender decides to get crazy defencive and hold on on power he will sp3 you since the introducing of taunt debuff they twiked the AI to become more and more defencive so that it has a meaning
    baiting become more and more a pain with champions holding on power tightly ..after which they nerfed mystique despertion now we are getting this ! with all the above it's too much
  • DJMNHDJMNH Posts: 720 ★★★
    Seraphion said:

    This node needs a nerf before next season.
    For everyone that doesnt know what it does:




    We play T2 in P1 and let me tell you when the enemy has Siphon we are happy.

    There are champs with that flow tactic that are beyond broken:

    Magik
    IMIW
    Dormamu
    Gulli 2099
    Heimdal
    Mr Sinister
    Mojo
    Mordo
    Punisher 2099
    Warlock


    First of they write its a powergain BUFF with every crit. You can disable it while stunned.

    So I thought okay 2 counterplays for that doesnt sound too bad. You can stun them (ofc not on stunimmune nodes which are 7 or 8 and its tricky vs IMIW)

    2nd counter play: nullify them right? Since its a buff? Wrong they are passives.




    And when we open a bug post about it. Oh lets change the description. It stays passive. Like what?

    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/1150673#Comment_1150673

    That global node is too strong.
    You have like 5 counters in the game vs that:

    Ghost/hood (tank SP3, GL if they play passive tho/ like waiting your phase and use SP3 after/ happend to me 3 times)

    Quake

    Crossbones (debatable if he is good enough vs R5s in Tier 3 or higher)

    Gulli2099

    Cap IW with parry heavy and hope not too many crits

    Some more champs can work but it depends a lot on RNG:

    magik (hope you got to SP2 before they SP3 so hope you dont crit and they throw their SPs)

    Iceman can work to some point with RNG as well (hope you dont crit)

    Void hope for petrifies

    Luke Cage hope for exhaustions

    Please change this node. It sucks the fun out of high tier wars.

    Totally agree with you mate.. it's sometimes makes me feel like it's a money making tactics by Kabam. Buy potions from glory and if not then buy units.. This flow has been a pain, especially on node 36 sometimes. It turns out to be CheckMate situation

    in season 17

    I had fought duped

    5* 153 sig HT
    6* Yondu Duped
    5* 200 sig Hyperion
    5* Nick fury duped on this node with this flow.


    and it was hell to wipe out opponents..

    I really don't get it when you guys say you discuss.. then pls keep the discussion on the forum with all veterans to avg summoners and not just few veterans having youtube channel...

    I would urge you guys to keep an open forum and allow every summoners who wants to give feedback to make this game interesting. This will help in long-run.

    Cheers happy gaming
  • Markjv81Markjv81 Posts: 1,003 ★★★★
    DJMNH said:

    Seraphion said:

    This node needs a nerf before next season.
    For everyone that doesnt know what it does:




    We play T2 in P1 and let me tell you when the enemy has Siphon we are happy.

    There are champs with that flow tactic that are beyond broken:

    Magik
    IMIW
    Dormamu
    Gulli 2099
    Heimdal
    Mr Sinister
    Mojo
    Mordo
    Punisher 2099
    Warlock


    First of they write its a powergain BUFF with every crit. You can disable it while stunned.

    So I thought okay 2 counterplays for that doesnt sound too bad. You can stun them (ofc not on stunimmune nodes which are 7 or 8 and its tricky vs IMIW)

    2nd counter play: nullify them right? Since its a buff? Wrong they are passives.




    And when we open a bug post about it. Oh lets change the description. It stays passive. Like what?

    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/1150673#Comment_1150673

    That global node is too strong.
    You have like 5 counters in the game vs that:

    Ghost/hood (tank SP3, GL if they play passive tho/ like waiting your phase and use SP3 after/ happend to me 3 times)

    Quake

    Crossbones (debatable if he is good enough vs R5s in Tier 3 or higher)

    Gulli2099

    Cap IW with parry heavy and hope not too many crits

    Some more champs can work but it depends a lot on RNG:

    magik (hope you got to SP2 before they SP3 so hope you dont crit and they throw their SPs)

    Iceman can work to some point with RNG as well (hope you dont crit)

    Void hope for petrifies

    Luke Cage hope for exhaustions

    Please change this node. It sucks the fun out of high tier wars.

    Totally agree with you mate.. it's sometimes makes me feel like it's a money making tactics by Kabam. Buy potions from glory and if not then buy units.. This flow has been a pain, especially on node 36 sometimes. It turns out to be CheckMate situation

    in season 17

    I had fought duped

    5* 153 sig HT
    6* Yondu Duped
    5* 200 sig Hyperion
    5* Nick fury duped on this node with this flow.


    and it was hell to wipe out opponents..

    I really don't get it when you guys say you discuss.. then pls keep the discussion on the forum with all veterans to avg summoners and not just few veterans having youtube channel...

    I would urge you guys to keep an open forum and allow every summoners who wants to give feedback to make this game interesting. This will help in long-run.

    Cheers happy gaming
    I’m confused by this post flow tactic doesn’t effect any of the champs you listed.
  • OctoberstackOctoberstack Posts: 872 ★★★★

    To be the Geico guy, I think people are upset because they wanted it taken out completely, for the most part. Some had suggested limiting it to one Stack. On the other side, they've said it's still meant to provide a challenge, and they were open to changing it again if need be, so I think it's fair to wait and see how things go next Season. You can always come back and register more feedback, but I tend to agree with what I stated earlier. It's meant to provide a certain degree of challenge by limiting what you can use.

    To make it clear what the tons of players are telling, there is NO challenge. It's just rubbish. The change made is minuscule and just gives you a chance to stop the power gain at the chance of taking nice block damage. It doesn't address the fact that the power gain itself is ridiculous, or that we all know that AI does act very defensive, especially so with this node.
    Going to repeat what we've all said, but we're not the testers. That's not our job. To keep running through broken nodes to find more faults for the developers. And please stop replying on the thread about challenges. You haven't faced the node, aren't facing the node and spending items, so at this point, your opinion doesn't matter when we're the people suffering. Just stop.
    If it wasn't providing some sort of challenge, it wouldn't be the most used DT. It does provide a challenge because your options are narrower. As for testers, the game is developed and improved based on game play. We've been testers since we picked the game up. I can and will participate in any discussion I choose, but thanks for the feedback nonetheless.
    Eh, but as was previously stated by the Kabam team, DTs were introduced to provide both a challenge AND make wars a more dynamic and variable experience.

    The fact that it’s the most used DT contradicts its primary intended function, which is something not even you can deny. Facing the same defenders, using the same attackers, and adopting the same playstyle for 11/12 wars a season isn’t exactly upholding those values.

    How about you stick to the point I made instead of resorting to some Meta synopsis of me and my behavior like we're on an episode of Dr. Phil?

    I don’t think that word means what you think it means
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,238 ★★★★★

    To be the Geico guy, I think people are upset because they wanted it taken out completely, for the most part. Some had suggested limiting it to one Stack. On the other side, they've said it's still meant to provide a challenge, and they were open to changing it again if need be, so I think it's fair to wait and see how things go next Season. You can always come back and register more feedback, but I tend to agree with what I stated earlier. It's meant to provide a certain degree of challenge by limiting what you can use.

    To make it clear what the tons of players are telling, there is NO challenge. It's just rubbish. The change made is minuscule and just gives you a chance to stop the power gain at the chance of taking nice block damage. It doesn't address the fact that the power gain itself is ridiculous, or that we all know that AI does act very defensive, especially so with this node.
    Going to repeat what we've all said, but we're not the testers. That's not our job. To keep running through broken nodes to find more faults for the developers. And please stop replying on the thread about challenges. You haven't faced the node, aren't facing the node and spending items, so at this point, your opinion doesn't matter when we're the people suffering. Just stop.
    If it wasn't providing some sort of challenge, it wouldn't be the most used DT. It does provide a challenge because your options are narrower. As for testers, the game is developed and improved based on game play. We've been testers since we picked the game up. I can and will participate in any discussion I choose, but thanks for the feedback nonetheless.
    it isn't the most used DT it is the ONLY used DT and not because its challenging its because those who have fought it know that's its f impossible to deal with and I can just pace a ghost rider on the debuff immune nodes and even he will start getting kills on most days.
    I dont know why you can't grasp the fact that you have no idea and no place commenting on whats going on here.
    You say very easily that oh we should be the testers while you yourself don't know how much and don't spend what we spend everyday on war. Could you stop? Well doesn't seems like you will.
    I didn't say we should be the testers. I said we're all testers in the sense that the poster of the comment to which I replied was referring to. The data they use comes from the result of us playing. The game itself is shaped in part by that data.
    It's used because it IS challenging. Not a hard concept to grasp. If it didn't provide a challenge for the Map, people wouldn't be using. Equally as obvious.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,238 ★★★★★
    People might not like the challenge it adds. That's a separate debate. If someone says it's not challenging, that's not something that can be logically debated. We wouldn't even be discussing it if it was easy to get past.
  • Mart83Mart83 Posts: 21
    Your opinions are so far off the mark it’s hilarious. What’s the point in all other defense tactics if one is just primarily used? Because the others provide some sort of challenge too but this one is just freakishly hard, that’s why
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,238 ★★★★★
    How is what I said off the mark? Someone said it wasn't challenging. I pointed out that's not true. You're just supporting what I said.
  • benshbbenshb Posts: 797 ★★★★
    edited May 2020
    Wow, that's it? You can "counter" (much more just control a bit) flow on 6-7 stunimmun nodes. That's the change? I'm telling (I? The whole community...) you, it won't even make a difference.
  • QfuryQfury Posts: 1,860 ★★★★★
    Money grab, that's what flow is. And that's exactly why they're keeping it. Why do you think they implemented AW specific pots that you have to buy with units....

    "It's all about the money"
  • PH_JunkyPH_Junky Posts: 10
    Season 17 was the most expensive one,for most players.
    It should be called the “Flow of money” for Kabam.
    Easy now to change the global node, and make it less ridiculous...but who will reimburse all the costs related to fighting against this “editor’s mistake”????
  • Das_giDas_gi Posts: 320 ★★
    DJMNH said:

    Seraphion said:

    This node needs a nerf before next season.
    For everyone that doesnt know what it does:




    We play T2 in P1 and let me tell you when the enemy has Siphon we are happy.

    There are champs with that flow tactic that are beyond broken:

    Magik
    IMIW
    Dormamu
    Gulli 2099
    Heimdal
    Mr Sinister
    Mojo
    Mordo
    Punisher 2099
    Warlock


    First of they write its a powergain BUFF with every crit. You can disable it while stunned.

    So I thought okay 2 counterplays for that doesnt sound too bad. You can stun them (ofc not on stunimmune nodes which are 7 or 8 and its tricky vs IMIW)

    2nd counter play: nullify them right? Since its a buff? Wrong they are passives.




    And when we open a bug post about it. Oh lets change the description. It stays passive. Like what?

    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/1150673#Comment_1150673

    That global node is too strong.
    You have like 5 counters in the game vs that:

    Ghost/hood (tank SP3, GL if they play passive tho/ like waiting your phase and use SP3 after/ happend to me 3 times)

    Quake

    Crossbones (debatable if he is good enough vs R5s in Tier 3 or higher)

    Gulli2099

    Cap IW with parry heavy and hope not too many crits

    Some more champs can work but it depends a lot on RNG:

    magik (hope you got to SP2 before they SP3 so hope you dont crit and they throw their SPs)

    Iceman can work to some point with RNG as well (hope you dont crit)

    Void hope for petrifies

    Luke Cage hope for exhaustions

    Please change this node. It sucks the fun out of high tier wars.

    Totally agree with you mate.. it's sometimes makes me feel like it's a money making tactics by Kabam. Buy potions from glory and if not then buy units.. This flow has been a pain, especially on node 36 sometimes. It turns out to be CheckMate situation

    in season 17

    I had fought duped

    5* 153 sig HT
    6* Yondu Duped
    5* 200 sig Hyperion
    5* Nick fury duped on this node with this flow.


    and it was hell to wipe out opponents..

    I really don't get it when you guys say you discuss.. then pls keep the discussion on the forum with all veterans to avg summoners and not just few veterans having youtube channel...

    I would urge you guys to keep an open forum and allow every summoners who wants to give feedback to make this game interesting. This will help in long-run.

    Cheers happy gaming
    You do know that neither HT, yondu, hyperion and nick fury are affected by flow cause none of them are control champs
  • Diksh619Diksh619 Posts: 227 ★★
    Why not make it non passive so that we can nullify it!
  • Liss_Bliss_Liss_Bliss_ Posts: 1,779 ★★★★★
    DJMNH said:

    Seraphion said:

    This node needs a nerf before next season.
    For everyone that doesnt know what it does:




    We play T2 in P1 and let me tell you when the enemy has Siphon we are happy.

    There are champs with that flow tactic that are beyond broken:

    Magik
    IMIW
    Dormamu
    Gulli 2099
    Heimdal
    Mr Sinister
    Mojo
    Mordo
    Punisher 2099
    Warlock


    First of they write its a powergain BUFF with every crit. You can disable it while stunned.

    So I thought okay 2 counterplays for that doesnt sound too bad. You can stun them (ofc not on stunimmune nodes which are 7 or 8 and its tricky vs IMIW)

    2nd counter play: nullify them right? Since its a buff? Wrong they are passives.




    And when we open a bug post about it. Oh lets change the description. It stays passive. Like what?

    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/1150673#Comment_1150673

    That global node is too strong.
    You have like 5 counters in the game vs that:

    Ghost/hood (tank SP3, GL if they play passive tho/ like waiting your phase and use SP3 after/ happend to me 3 times)

    Quake

    Crossbones (debatable if he is good enough vs R5s in Tier 3 or higher)

    Gulli2099

    Cap IW with parry heavy and hope not too many crits

    Some more champs can work but it depends a lot on RNG:

    magik (hope you got to SP2 before they SP3 so hope you dont crit and they throw their SPs)

    Iceman can work to some point with RNG as well (hope you dont crit)

    Void hope for petrifies

    Luke Cage hope for exhaustions

    Please change this node. It sucks the fun out of high tier wars.

    Totally agree with you mate.. it's sometimes makes me feel like it's a money making tactics by Kabam. Buy potions from glory and if not then buy units.. This flow has been a pain, especially on node 36 sometimes. It turns out to be CheckMate situation

    in season 17

    I had fought duped

    5* 153 sig HT
    6* Yondu Duped
    5* 200 sig Hyperion
    5* Nick fury duped on this node with this flow.


    and it was hell to wipe out opponents..

    I really don't get it when you guys say you discuss.. then pls keep the discussion on the forum with all veterans to avg summoners and not just few veterans having youtube channel...

    I would urge you guys to keep an open forum and allow every summoners who wants to give feedback to make this game interesting. This will help in long-run.

    Cheers happy gaming
    Nick Fury isn’t a Flow champion.
    Human Torch isn’t a Flow champion.
    Yondu isn’t a Flow champion.
    Hyperion isn’t a Flow champion.

    Why mention them?
  • Mart83Mart83 Posts: 21

    How is what I said off the mark? Someone said it wasn't challenging. I pointed out that's not true. You're just supporting what I said.

    You keep saying it’s challenging but it’s meant to be? Well then why is it so much tougher then the other globals? What’s the point in globals, just have one tactic.. the best idea I’ve seen on this thread is to force one separate tactic per BG per alliance each war. That way people aren’t going to be facing flow every single war, it’s boring.

  • SnizzbarSnizzbar Posts: 2,144 ★★★★★

    Ignore him and he will go away.

    Nope. Tried it, doesn't work.
  • Mr_PlatypusMr_Platypus Posts: 2,779 ★★★★★
    Snizzbar said:

    Ignore him and he will go away.

    Nope. Tried it, doesn't work.
    It does save those that have him blocked from having half of every page cluttered with people arguing with the brick wall though.
  • ThecurlerThecurler Posts: 839 ★★★★
    Hit disagree, ignore.
    In any walk of life it is pointless engaging in debate with people that hold a polar opposite view and are unwilling to accept counter arguments.
    Save energy, move on.
  • Liss_Bliss_Liss_Bliss_ Posts: 1,779 ★★★★★
    DJMNH said:

    Seraphion said:

    This node needs a nerf before next season.
    For everyone that doesnt know what it does:




    We play T2 in P1 and let me tell you when the enemy has Siphon we are happy.

    There are champs with that flow tactic that are beyond broken:

    Magik
    IMIW
    Dormamu
    Gulli 2099
    Heimdal
    Mr Sinister
    Mojo
    Mordo
    Punisher 2099
    Warlock


    First of they write its a powergain BUFF with every crit. You can disable it while stunned.

    So I thought okay 2 counterplays for that doesnt sound too bad. You can stun them (ofc not on stunimmune nodes which are 7 or 8 and its tricky vs IMIW)

    2nd counter play: nullify them right? Since its a buff? Wrong they are passives.




    And when we open a bug post about it. Oh lets change the description. It stays passive. Like what?

    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/1150673#Comment_1150673

    That global node is too strong.
    You have like 5 counters in the game vs that:

    Ghost/hood (tank SP3, GL if they play passive tho/ like waiting your phase and use SP3 after/ happend to me 3 times)

    Quake

    Crossbones (debatable if he is good enough vs R5s in Tier 3 or higher)

    Gulli2099

    Cap IW with parry heavy and hope not too many crits

    Some more champs can work but it depends a lot on RNG:

    magik (hope you got to SP2 before they SP3 so hope you dont crit and they throw their SPs)

    Iceman can work to some point with RNG as well (hope you dont crit)

    Void hope for petrifies

    Luke Cage hope for exhaustions

    Please change this node. It sucks the fun out of high tier wars.

    Totally agree with you mate.. it's sometimes makes me feel like it's a money making tactics by Kabam. Buy potions from glory and if not then buy units.. This flow has been a pain, especially on node 36 sometimes. It turns out to be CheckMate situation

    in season 17

    I had fought duped

    5* 153 sig HT
    6* Yondu Duped
    5* 200 sig Hyperion
    5* Nick fury duped on this node with this flow.


    and it was hell to wipe out opponents..

    I really don't get it when you guys say you discuss.. then pls keep the discussion on the forum with all veterans to avg summoners and not just few veterans having youtube channel...

    I would urge you guys to keep an open forum and allow every summoners who wants to give feedback to make this game interesting. This will help in long-run.

    Cheers happy gaming
    Nick Fury can’t benefit from Flow. Not to mention none of the other champs. It’s easy to spot people who haven’t faced this node.
  • DhopsDhops Posts: 37
    So as far as I can tell the changes to the node were:

    (1) change stun to well timed block which has the effect of (a) helping on stun immune nodes and champs that are more difficult to stun (e.g., IMIW and Taskmaster) but also (b) nerfing counters like Doom (passive stun) and champs that stun on specials; and

    (2) the three stacks thing which as the mods now realize, is not actually a change.

    So basically we’re getting a slight benefit on specific nodes while being hurt with other counters and a change that isn’t actually a change and shows that whatever information the decision makers used wasn’t based on actual data because how could they consider (2) a change?

    The biggest issue I have is that when this defensive tactics were first presented in the Beta a while back, the developers in that forum were clear that the intent was to allow more varied use of defenders and tactics and that they were all intended to be of generally equal utility (this was reiterated when they rebalanced things like Bulwark after a season or two because of disproportionate use and then later Siphon for a similar reason). Now, one of the nodes they created is so OP compared to the remainder that there is little chance this change (not plural because one is not a change) has any impact on the use of the node.

    There were plenty of options to change to bring it in line with the difficulty of other nodes (reduce the power gain, actually reduce the number of stacks, make it limited to a smaller subset of “control” champs (e.g., Control:Denial, etc.) but this is the bare minimum to try an appease the player base while preserving the difficulty of the node. This doesn’t change the extremely limited subset of counters to this tactic and won’t change utilization because what node is even remotely equivalent to Flow in terms of limiting an attackers options for counters.

    This is disappointing (but frankly not surprising) by Kabam and a decision that is totally contrary to the stated purpose of defensive tactics through the beta and by the mods in the forums previously. If this change is the only change made by next AW season start, I predict we’ll see more than normal retirement given the burnout this node is causing at upper tiers.
  • PgalPgal Posts: 39
    My biggest problem with flow is exactly that it is too hard, but that it forces everyone to only use certain champs, both in attack and defence, meaning that people will use invaluable resources to rank up champions, and make specific mastery changes, and eventually another defense tactic will come along to render all this meaningless.


    That nerf is not really a nerf because it only affects the immune nodes, and takes away from champs like Gwenpool, Jane Foster, and champs that stun on specials. On top of that, in the past few updates, the AI has become incredibly defensive, so good luck parrying a bot that just stands there and waits for the sp3.
  • Panchulon21Panchulon21 Posts: 2,605 ★★★★★
    Why has everyone gotten anyway from the actual discussion of flow? You guys are bashing groundedwisdom instead of really talking about the underlying issue.

    The new change to flow is still pretty bad. You want us to take major block damage to remove it? All people will do now is make sure flow goes on both counter tactic nodes and stun immune nodes. You didn’t solve the problem you just slightly tweaked it to still cause the community to use glory and potions. This isn’t a solution it’s just a bandaid that isn’t going to even hold that well.

    Kabam was doing well, with all the content, side events, the temporary sigil for all, the servers (not lately) and the decent transparency you have had the last few months. By making this change you are again losing a portion of the community and getting people to hate war more and more.

    There are a few ways you can make this better you adapt 1 or all of these:

    1.) make it a buff which is what the details on it make it seem
    2.) less power gain in each tier
    3.) instead of stacking 3 times and continuing to stack only allow it to trigger a max set of times per fight. For example it can only trigger 4 times per match
    4.) set a cooldown timer. Can only trigger once every 10 seconds, and extend the time from 15 seconds to 20 with less power gain per second.

    As I said you guys are smart that’s why you work for kabam, you can surely think of ways of keeping this node and making it beatable through skill, not through boosts, potions, revives and RNG luck on champions baiting or not.

  • LeovaMLeovaM Posts: 37
    @Kabam Miike , don't make this more awful, yes, you added "Well-Timed Blocks", that's perfect, magnificent, so we can now deal with this global on Stun/Debuff immune nodes, but why, god damn, WHY you removed "Stunning the opponent" from it??? This makes champs that we got used to use on AW this season complete **** for the next, and I'm talking about Doctor Doom, Wasp, and many other champions who can stun the opponents with their abilities, not with just parry.
  • JustapilgrimJustapilgrim Posts: 239 ★★
    Not sure what everyone is complaining about. My r5 Mojo War bods was just soloed in the last war using magik. I took my magik and g2099 up to r5 just to counter this defense and the alliance invested heavily into ranking flow champs just for defense and now they nerf it?

    I am just getting sick of the bait and switches. If the idea is to make the defense global weak then make it weak from the start. Don't bring out a crazy hard defensive node and then water it down after some people counter it and invest into it.
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