From the She-Hulk Heavy Fix compensation post in August 2019 with a few edits to show the similarities:
We have heard from the community and understand that many players may have specifically ranked She-HulkMorningstar/BWCV for this gameplay mechanic without knowing that it was unintended. Since these rank up decisions require an investment of resources, we want to give players who have ranked She-HulkMorningstar/BWCV the opportunity to evaluate the fix once it is live and make the decision if they would like to rank herthem down. We are working on the steps required to create She-Hulk specific Rank Down Tickets and gather a list of players impacted to provide this compensationthe mechanism for such Rank Down Tickets has already been developed.
Again, if it applied to She-Hulk, it applies here.
I don't know how many times this must be explained but here I go again THERE WAS NO CHANGE TO MS/BWCV THEIR DESCRIPTION AND ABILITIES ALL FUNCTION THE SAME SHE HULK HAD HER ABILITES AND PLAYSTYLE ALTERED. Just because you can plug names in places doesn't make it the same.
She-Hulk's playstyle changed, sure. But what abilities changed? Was anything in her description changed?
She-Hulk's in-game actions were adjusted to match the original intent the developers had for her.
Morningstar and BWCV are now having their in-game actions adjusted to match the original intent the developers had for them.
She-Hulk's adjustment was the result of a bug.
Morningstar and BWCV's adjustment is the result of a bug.
She-Hulk's adjustment warranted a Rank Down Ticket.
Morningstar and BWCV's adjustment also warrants rank down tickets.
Kabam even stated in the She-Hulk announcement, they recognize that, obvious or not, there are some players that likely ranked She Hulk not knowing this repeatable ability was unintended, so players need to evaluate the change to see if they're worth the resources once they're fixed. How is that any different than this.
For me, the degree to which a champion changes doesn't matter. When Cull Obsidian was re-balanced, he didn't change much, but he was adjusted downward, so Rank Down Tickets were given out. This is how it should go. Are Morningstar and BWCV impacted by this change less than She Hulk was by hers? Of course. But they were adjusted down nonetheless and should be ranked down if the player so chooses.
Ok. Gulk. It says he regenerates from passive damage. But bane is apparently "special".
Where is the bug fix allowing Gulk to Regen from bane? He should.
That’s because originally when they first made act 5 it was a active degen I don’t remember when they changed it but they did but I think that’s just because the game still registers it as a buff
You are selectively choosing which description is a bug that needs fixing and one that is ok to slide.
Why does Morningstar's description need a bug fix, rather than a quick text change?
Why can't this just be ignored like Gulk and bane?
How about Kamala and her removing buffs that aren't in her description either?
Again, flow's description can be dragged into this as can multiple others.
Fixing Morningstar, while ignoring all the others, stinks.
Listen I’m not always on kabams side ok infact I was pissed off when they nerfed she hulk because that effected her in more matches then just the 6.2 champion fight. Morningstar barely got touched at all is this going to effect how you will play Morningstar outside of 6.2 no it won’t because Morningstar will still function the same. And yes I’m annoyed that kabam hasn’t fixed the gladiator hulk and kamala bugs
Or are all of Gulk, Kamala and Morningstar, *as they stand*, "working at intended" and they just need to change their text?
Why the single minded insistence from you, really and others that the code be changed to match the description?
From the She-Hulk Heavy Fix compensation post in August 2019 with a few edits to show the similarities:
We have heard from the community and understand that many players may have specifically ranked She-HulkMorningstar/BWCV for this gameplay mechanic without knowing that it was unintended. Since these rank up decisions require an investment of resources, we want to give players who have ranked She-HulkMorningstar/BWCV the opportunity to evaluate the fix once it is live and make the decision if they would like to rank herthem down. We are working on the steps required to create She-Hulk specific Rank Down Tickets and gather a list of players impacted to provide this compensationthe mechanism for such Rank Down Tickets has already been developed.
Again, if it applied to She-Hulk, it applies here.
I don't know how many times this must be explained but here I go again THERE WAS NO CHANGE TO MS/BWCV THEIR DESCRIPTION AND ABILITIES ALL FUNCTION THE SAME SHE HULK HAD HER ABILITES AND PLAYSTYLE ALTERED. Just because you can plug names in places doesn't make it the same.
She-Hulk's playstyle changed, sure. But what abilities changed? Was anything in her description changed?
She-Hulk's in-game actions were adjusted to match the original intent the developers had for her.
Morningstar and BWCV are now having their in-game actions adjusted to match the original intent the developers had for them.
She-Hulk's adjustment was the result of a bug.
Morningstar and BWCV's adjustment is the result of a bug.
She-Hulk's adjustment warranted a Rank Down Ticket.
Morningstar and BWCV's adjustment also warrants rank down tickets.
Kabam even stated in the She-Hulk announcement, they recognize that, obvious or not, there are some players that likely ranked She Hulk not knowing this repeatable ability was unintended, so players need to evaluate the change to see if they're worth the resources once they're fixed. How is that any different than this.
For me, the degree to which a champion changes doesn't matter. When Cull Obsidian was re-balanced, he didn't change much, but he was adjusted downward, so Rank Down Tickets were given out. This is how it should go. Are Morningstar and BWCV impacted by this change less than She Hulk was by hers? Of course. But they were adjusted down nonetheless and should be ranked down if the player so chooses.
I'm not going to keep repeating myself you aren't getting rdts nor should you the situations are entirely different you can argue all day but you will not get an rdt
I’m just gonna say this right now to all you guy that only R5ed your Morningstar only for the 6.2 champion why even bother ranking a champ for one fight and one fight only?
I look forward to the day Kabam diminishes the investment on your roster. I spend real money in hopes of helping out my competitive game play here, but these anti player moves are increasingly making me skeptic to spend anything moving forward. This is a bad trend that’s becoming systemic.
Ok my point still stands if your gonna rank your champ up for one singular fight and never use them again why even bother ranking them up?
Because said fight needs to be done multiple times and is arguably the most difficult fight in the game with nodes like no retreat on it.
I happily took Morningstar to 6* r2 if it meant I would save myself a thousand units on revives. Plus, it’s a return on investment, completing Act 6 100% will net me more materials and rewards. It’s not a waste to rank a specific champ for a specifically hard boss if it means it will save you units, revives or real money to get through.
If i were aware it was a bug I would have either saved my resources and waited until I got a good counter to 100% 6.2 or would have taken a different champ to r2 who I could use for Abyss
I’m just gonna say this right now to all you guy that only R5ed your Morningstar only for the 6.2 champion why even bother ranking a champ for one fight and one fight only?
I look forward to the day Kabam diminishes the investment on your roster. I spend real money in hopes of helping out my competitive game play here, but these anti player moves are increasingly making me skeptic to spend anything moving forward. This is a bad trend that’s becoming systemic.
Ok my point still stands if your gonna rank your champ up for one singular fight and never use them again why even bother ranking them up?
Because said fight needs to be done multiple times and is arguably the most difficult fight in the game with nodes like no retreat on it.
I happily took Morningstar to 6* r2 if it meant I would save myself a thousand units on revives. Plus, it’s a return on investment, completing Act 6 100% will net me more materials and rewards. It’s not a waste to rank a specific champ for a specifically hard boss if it means it will save you units, revives or real money to get through.
If i were aware it was a bug I would have either saved my resources and waited until I got a good counter to 100% 6.2 or would have taken a different champ to r2 who I could use for Abyss
Okay fair point on this one but they actively said they won’t be Changing her regen until June you still have plenty of time to try to beat the champion
So when the parry ability or the thing SP3 are not matching the description, they fixed the descriptions, but when MS and BWCV don't match the description, they fix them.
Can we have some consistency please?
Thanks.
As above..:
Flow Kamala Thing Parry Morningstar Bwcv Gulk and bane
Benefits the players; bug that must be fixed, leave the text
Benefits kabam; working as intended, change the text
What baffles me is the players in these forums who only want changes that benefit kabam.
Only issue is that Kabam should be quicker in telling people what is considered bug ... this has been going on for months ...
I agree.
The mods said that the She Hulk issue was also clearly a bug when she was fixed. They ultimately gave champ specific rank-down tickets for that fix. I don't see why they wouldn't do the same in this situation.
This is a different situation Quit trying to get rank down tickets
Can you explain how it's different?
First of all if you didn’t use your head to grasp at straws you would understand that she hulk affected her at her base level, her play style and her utility Being able to chain heavy made it possible to chain heavies in the corner immediately apply slow after any basic attack bar second medium made unblockable basic attacks almost meaningless Her change affected not only the 6.2.6 champ fight it affected her play style many people ranked her up because of this it was promoted by many YouTubers MS is only affected in this fight how many times have you faced indestructible in other quests? Barely ever Is this affecting her ability to regen in general? No it’s not it’s going to work as stated Quite trying to find poor excuses for rank down tickets If someone ranked her up for one And that fight only fight than that’s on them her abilities were as stated but worked differently and tried to take advantage than that’s a risk people take. She hulk was never stated to be able to chain heavies it was something the community discovered MS never has stated that she would regen damage she “would” deal
No conspiracy theory here. Going piece by piece:
You say the She Hulk change affected not only the 6.2.6 fight, but many other fights. You also say that Morningstar is only affected in this fight. However, there are a number of places where this ability could be used to Morningstar's advantage. Aegis Heavy, Aegis Intercept, Prove Yourself, Luke Cage's signature abilities...these are all places where Morningstar's bug could have been used by players. The 6.2.6 Champion boss was the most notable instance, but it wasn't the only instance as you suggest. In this way, She Hulk and the MS/BWCV issue are the same.
You say people ranked up She-Hulk because this bugged ability was promoted on YouTube. If you look it up on YouTube, there are a number of widely-watched videos showcasing this very interaction for Morningstar and BWCV. Are you saying that no one in the community made a rank up decision based on these videos? There are those who have posted today who would tell you that isn't the case. In this way, She Hulk and the MS/BWCV issue are the same.
You say that She Hulk was never stated to be able to chain heavies and it was something the community discovered. However, She Hulk was not the only champ that had this ability and was able to do it for years. This was just taken as a natural interaction given its long-standing presence in the game. Many people used this ability for years and it was never considered a bug until after 6.2.6 Champion was released. How long have videos existed showing the interaction between MS/BWCV and the Champion? Many months, but as we just discussed, the interaction has been in the game as long as She-Hulk and the indestructible buff/passive have been in the game together, which is also years. How long do we need to give Kabam to chime in on whether something is a bug or not? In this way, She Hulk and the MS/BWCV issue are the same.
Again, I won't argue that this wasn't a bug. If it's a bug, it should be fixed. However, I assert that if it takes too long for a widely known bug to be addressed and a champion is adjusted/fixed downward as a result, Rank Down Tickets should be distributed to ensure that people are making rank up decisions based on Kabam's vision for how a Champion is supposed to perform and not how they erroneously were performing.
[Funny thing I saw it originally on the other post, said that the comment doesn’t exist whne I tried commenting a reply ] Again you’re grasping at straws bud I clearly said that you bare face indestructible In general vs she hulk where you can spam heavies or chain heavies In ALL fights These two situations are completely different YouTube videos explicitly said she was one of the top champs and The only thing you’re right is about she hulk and the regen fix is that it took this long But in reality no one used she hulk that much pre or post buff so in reality very little was said over all does show a lot of incompetence I’m the game team One fight should not determine rank down tickets, especially if the bug is relating towards very very minor aspects of the game indestructible is still rare in the game and the chances of using BWCV or MS against those abilities are rare as it is
From the She-Hulk Heavy Fix compensation post in August 2019 with a few edits to show the similarities:
We have heard from the community and understand that many players may have specifically ranked She-HulkMorningstar/BWCV for this gameplay mechanic without knowing that it was unintended. Since these rank up decisions require an investment of resources, we want to give players who have ranked She-HulkMorningstar/BWCV the opportunity to evaluate the fix once it is live and make the decision if they would like to rank herthem down. We are working on the steps required to create She-Hulk specific Rank Down Tickets and gather a list of players impacted to provide this compensationthe mechanism for such Rank Down Tickets has already been developed.
Again, if it applied to She-Hulk, it applies here.
I don't know how many times this must be explained but here I go again THERE WAS NO CHANGE TO MS/BWCV THEIR DESCRIPTION AND ABILITIES ALL FUNCTION THE SAME SHE HULK HAD HER ABILITES AND PLAYSTYLE ALTERED. Just because you can plug names in places doesn't make it the same.
She-Hulk's playstyle changed, sure. But what abilities changed? Was anything in her description changed?
She-Hulk's in-game actions were adjusted to match the original intent the developers had for her.
Morningstar and BWCV are now having their in-game actions adjusted to match the original intent the developers had for them.
She-Hulk's adjustment was the result of a bug.
Morningstar and BWCV's adjustment is the result of a bug.
She-Hulk's adjustment warranted a Rank Down Ticket.
Morningstar and BWCV's adjustment also warrants rank down tickets.
Kabam even stated in the She-Hulk announcement, they recognize that, obvious or not, there are some players that likely ranked She Hulk not knowing this repeatable ability was unintended, so players need to evaluate the change to see if they're worth the resources once they're fixed. How is that any different than this.
For me, the degree to which a champion changes doesn't matter. When Cull Obsidian was re-balanced, he didn't change much, but he was adjusted downward, so Rank Down Tickets were given out. This is how it should go. Are Morningstar and BWCV impacted by this change less than She Hulk was by hers? Of course. But they were adjusted down nonetheless and should be ranked down if the player so chooses.
There’s a massive difference between the two cases She hulk heavy combo wouldn’t be as easily noticeable as a bug because people obviously assume it’s just the way her animations work same way different champs have longer light attacks or heavy This on the other hand is just a clear bug
So when the parry ability or the thing SP3 were not matching the description, they fixed the descriptions, but when MS and BWCV don't match the description, they fix them.
Can we have some consistency please?
Thanks.
Because those were intended the MS/BWCV one was an unintentional bug I mean do you think life steal makes sense if you aren't taking any life?
Hey there everyone, we wanted to drop in and weigh in on this again. To confirm, at 5 Souls, Morningstar has a chance to Life Steal 50% of the damage she deals, so she should not gain any health from attacks that deal 0 damage. Her being able to is a bug that we are working on a fix for and have documented in our Bugs and Known Issues thread here. We wanted to let everyone know ahead of time that a fix was coming for this, though it looks like it won't be able to be resolved until the 27.1 update at the earliest, which is currently slated for June. We also wanted to let everyone know that we are passing feedback on this and the Champion as a whole fight along to the rest of the team.
I suggest watching this video before saying that she deals 0 damage. The youtuber gives a very valid and relevant explanation regarding this issue, shoutout to @JaeSylvr
10%-0% health: Dark Match: The Champion gains 5 Indestructible charges, and while he has at least 1 charge he is immune to all damage.
So he is immune to damage but that most certainly does not state that the damage dealt is zero, it is just being ignored since the Champion is immune to damage. The damage is still there, he is just not taking it.
Morningstar still heals when he is hitting Luke Cage when the indestrucrible buff is on him, the damage is still there but he is immune to it because of the buff.
If the description was like the Descructive Feedback node, you guys would have been absolutely correct, the video points this out as well, but you guys are dead wrong about this fix and just trying to make this fight harder and harder every time some convenient and easy accessible counter is popular.
Only issue is that Kabam should be quicker in telling people what is considered bug ... this has been going on for months ...
I agree.
The mods said that the She Hulk issue was also clearly a bug when she was fixed. They ultimately gave champ specific rank-down tickets for that fix. I don't see why they wouldn't do the same in this situation.
This is a different situation Quit trying to get rank down tickets
Can you explain how it's different?
First of all if you didn’t use your head to grasp at straws you would understand that she hulk affected her at her base level, her play style and her utility Being able to chain heavy made it possible to chain heavies in the corner immediately apply slow after any basic attack bar second medium made unblockable basic attacks almost meaningless Her change affected not only the 6.2.6 champ fight it affected her play style many people ranked her up because of this it was promoted by many YouTubers MS is only affected in this fight how many times have you faced indestructible in other quests? Barely ever Is this affecting her ability to regen in general? No it’s not it’s going to work as stated Quite trying to find poor excuses for rank down tickets If someone ranked her up for one And that fight only fight than that’s on them her abilities were as stated but worked differently and tried to take advantage than that’s a risk people take. She hulk was never stated to be able to chain heavies it was something the community discovered MS never has stated that she would regen damage she “would” deal
No conspiracy theory here. Going piece by piece:
You say the She Hulk change affected not only the 6.2.6 fight, but many other fights. You also say that Morningstar is only affected in this fight. However, there are a number of places where this ability could be used to Morningstar's advantage. Aegis Heavy, Aegis Intercept, Prove Yourself, Luke Cage's signature abilities...these are all places where Morningstar's bug could have been used by players. The 6.2.6 Champion boss was the most notable instance, but it wasn't the only instance as you suggest. In this way, She Hulk and the MS/BWCV issue are the same.
You say people ranked up She-Hulk because this bugged ability was promoted on YouTube. If you look it up on YouTube, there are a number of widely-watched videos showcasing this very interaction for Morningstar and BWCV. Are you saying that no one in the community made a rank up decision based on these videos? There are those who have posted today who would tell you that isn't the case. In this way, She Hulk and the MS/BWCV issue are the same.
You say that She Hulk was never stated to be able to chain heavies and it was something the community discovered. However, She Hulk was not the only champ that had this ability and was able to do it for years. This was just taken as a natural interaction given its long-standing presence in the game. Many people used this ability for years and it was never considered a bug until after 6.2.6 Champion was released. How long have videos existed showing the interaction between MS/BWCV and the Champion? Many months, but as we just discussed, the interaction has been in the game as long as She-Hulk and the indestructible buff/passive have been in the game together, which is also years. How long do we need to give Kabam to chime in on whether something is a bug or not? In this way, She Hulk and the MS/BWCV issue are the same.
Again, I won't argue that this wasn't a bug. If it's a bug, it should be fixed. However, I assert that if it takes too long for a widely known bug to be addressed and a champion is adjusted/fixed downward as a result, Rank Down Tickets should be distributed to ensure that people are making rank up decisions based on Kabam's vision for how a Champion is supposed to perform and not how they erroneously were performing.
[Funny thing I saw it originally on the other post, said that the comment doesn’t exist whne I tried commenting a reply ] Again you’re grasping at straws bud I clearly said that you bare face indestructible In general vs she hulk where you can spam heavies or chain heavies In ALL fights These two situations are completely different YouTube videos explicitly said she was one of the top champs and The only thing you’re right is about she hulk and the regen fix is that it took this long But in reality no one used she hulk that much pre or post buff so in reality very little was said over all does show a lot of incompetence I’m the game team One fight should not determine rank down tickets, especially if the bug is relating towards very very minor aspects of the game indestructible is still rare in the game and the chances of using BWCV or MS against those abilities are rare as it is
From what you are saying, it's not that the situations are different, but that the degree/severity/intensity is different and THAT is the deciding factor for you.
I'll reiterate the heart of my position: if any champ is allowed to exist for an extended period of time and a bug is discovered that requires a fix that adjusts the champ in a negative way, rank down tickets should be issued.
For an extreme example, if they came out and said tomorrow that Limbo was not intended to erase the damage from Recoil when using Magik, that would be a huge change and clearly rank down tickets would be warranted. I'd also argue that if Kabam stated that a coding error gave Ghost 1% more health than she's supposed to have and she'd be adjusted down in the next update, I'd also say that rank down tickets are warranted.
Why?
Kabam can't possibly know exactly why any given individual ranked up a champ. Maybe you run suicides all the time and only rank champs that are suicide friendly. All they can say is you ranked up a champ based on your own experience with the game, whether it's playing yourself or watching videos. Rank up decisions are made on those experiences. Changing the way champions function, even to fix bugs, can have a negative impact on the player.
To be clear, I've got 4 paths left in Abyss. Outside of that, I've cleared all content in the game. If I got Rank Down Tickets, I likely wouldn't use them (except possibly for inventory control), so that's not why I'm making a case for them.
I'm making a case because I enjoy this game. When the community gets upset, I'm generally right there with them. I still don't have an Archangel as a 5*, but I was frustrated for all the people who did when they fixed his bug years ago without any compensation. People are still mad about that. I feel Kabam made a big step in the right direction with how they handled She-Hulk. Some people were upset, but no one was really out anything because of how they handled things. They took it a step further with the Namor/Cull rank down tickets. Again, champs were adjusted downward, Rank Down Tickets were given out. This is how it should be.
If one needs to make some arbitrary scale about how much a champ has changed each time something like this happens to figure out if RDT's are warranted, you're going to flood the forums each time. However, if you have a blanket policy that each downward adjustment walks hand-in-hand with RDT's, it not only keeps the players happy, but it also gives Kabam more incentive to keep a finger on the pulse of the community so bugs like this don't fester for too long. I'm sure they don't LIKE doing the work involved with sorting out Rank Down Tickets, but to be fair, they always stem from their own mistakes.
I'm not arguing for RDT's for this case. I'm arguing for the policy so we don't have to have this discussion during the inevitable "next time".
From the She-Hulk Heavy Fix compensation post in August 2019 with a few edits to show the similarities:
We have heard from the community and understand that many players may have specifically ranked She-HulkMorningstar/BWCV for this gameplay mechanic without knowing that it was unintended. Since these rank up decisions require an investment of resources, we want to give players who have ranked She-HulkMorningstar/BWCV the opportunity to evaluate the fix once it is live and make the decision if they would like to rank herthem down. We are working on the steps required to create She-Hulk specific Rank Down Tickets and gather a list of players impacted to provide this compensationthe mechanism for such Rank Down Tickets has already been developed.
Again, if it applied to She-Hulk, it applies here.
Or maybe you could read ability’s because it doesn’t take a genius to figure out you should not be healing with Morningstar if your doing no damage. Say for example a power focus node. You do no damage on your basic hits so assuming your Morningstar is fully built up should she be healing on power focus when she is doing not damage? No
You mean Power Shield? She should absolutely be able to heal from Power Focus nodes. But her basic attacks should not heal her on Power Shield nodes.
I'm not disagreeing. It's a bug that should be fixed. All I'm saying is that the bug existed for so long that there are some out there that ranked up these champs without knowing this interaction was bugged. These people will have the rug pulled out from under them and it's not fair to them to give them no recourse for their decision since they made their decision based on the information available to them in the game.
I’m just gonna say this right now to all you guy that only R5ed your Morningstar only for the 6.2 champion why even bother ranking a champ for one fight and one fight only?
I look forward to the day Kabam diminishes the investment on your roster. I spend real money in hopes of helping out my competitive game play here, but these anti player moves are increasingly making me skeptic to spend anything moving forward. This is a bad trend that’s becoming systemic.
Ok my point still stands if your gonna rank your champ up for one singular fight and never use them again why even bother ranking them up?
People rank up champions to finish one fight because they are the better counter for that fight. I suppose if they use it for one fight or all fight shouldn't be any of your concern though.
Bwcv and Morningstar can no longer regen vs the champion??!!??!! Why is it that something that has worked in the game for the longest all of a sudden changed and called a bug?? This is the same thing as she hulk all over again. I finally pull a good champ to fight the champion boss and they get nerfed right after ranking bwcv to r2 6*. It isn’t right and something needs to be done to fix it. Ppl have been using these champs for ages to beat him. Now no one else can? How is this right?? Thoughts anyone?
So tell me how its supposed to work then. Both BWCV and Morningstars abilities say they regen from damage dealt. If they arent dealing any damage, how are they supposed to regen? Morningstar has been around for years but only recently shes been used against the champion. BWCV hasn't been around for ages. Shes been in the game for like 6 months.
If the situation was reversed and it impacted you during the fight, would you want them to leave it or fix it?
They wouldn't fix it if it benefited them and NOT us, so don't use that comparison.
Why do people say this when it is blatantly not true? The Champion fight was originally bugged in a way where the Champion would sometimes not take damage after his indestructible charges were removed and then regen out of the phase, making the fight sometimes much harder. Players did beat him when he was bugged so it wasn't impossible, just significantly more difficult. They fixed that bug when it was reported.
I'm setting aside the whole "benefited them" nonsense here as it is irrelevant. Bugs that make the content more difficult get fixed to the same degree as bugs that make the content easier for some players.
Any of the devs plan to comment on this and i Trying to understand how is this a bug in the first place lol
Morningstar's abilities explicitly state that she has a chance to heal 50% of damage she deals. So if she deals 1000 points of damage and the heal triggers you'd expect Morningstar to heal 500 points of health. If she lands an attack for 200 damage you'd expect her to heal for 100 health. If she lands an attack for 10 points of damage you'd expect her to heal only 5 points of health.
So how much health would you expect MS to heal if she lands an attack for zero damage?
From the She-Hulk Heavy Fix compensation post in August 2019 with a few edits to show the similarities:
We have heard from the community and understand that many players may have specifically ranked She-HulkMorningstar/BWCV for this gameplay mechanic without knowing that it was unintended. Since these rank up decisions require an investment of resources, we want to give players who have ranked She-HulkMorningstar/BWCV the opportunity to evaluate the fix once it is live and make the decision if they would like to rank herthem down. We are working on the steps required to create She-Hulk specific Rank Down Tickets and gather a list of players impacted to provide this compensationthe mechanism for such Rank Down Tickets has already been developed.
Again, if it applied to She-Hulk, it applies here.
I don't know how many times this must be explained but here I go again THERE WAS NO CHANGE TO MS/BWCV THEIR DESCRIPTION AND ABILITIES ALL FUNCTION THE SAME SHE HULK HAD HER ABILITES AND PLAYSTYLE ALTERED. Just because you can plug names in places doesn't make it the same.
She-Hulk's playstyle changed, sure. But what abilities changed? Was anything in her description changed?
She-Hulk's in-game actions were adjusted to match the original intent the developers had for her.
Morningstar and BWCV are now having their in-game actions adjusted to match the original intent the developers had for them.
She-Hulk's adjustment was the result of a bug.
Morningstar and BWCV's adjustment is the result of a bug.
She-Hulk's adjustment warranted a Rank Down Ticket.
Morningstar and BWCV's adjustment also warrants rank down tickets.
Kabam even stated in the She-Hulk announcement, they recognize that, obvious or not, there are some players that likely ranked She Hulk not knowing this repeatable ability was unintended, so players need to evaluate the change to see if they're worth the resources once they're fixed. How is that any different than this.
For me, the degree to which a champion changes doesn't matter. When Cull Obsidian was re-balanced, he didn't change much, but he was adjusted downward, so Rank Down Tickets were given out. This is how it should go. Are Morningstar and BWCV impacted by this change less than She Hulk was by hers? Of course. But they were adjusted down nonetheless and should be ranked down if the player so chooses.
I don't really care about designer intent. If they put something that's OP into the game, they should eat it.
There are a lot of players that claim this is their position. Its funny how in the two decades plus of multiplayer online game development, exactly zero of them managed to become game developers with that belief intact, because exactly zero game developers would agree. It is almost as if once you have to make it, you attitude towards fixing it changes.
Comments
She-Hulk's in-game actions were adjusted to match the original intent the developers had for her.
Morningstar and BWCV are now having their in-game actions adjusted to match the original intent the developers had for them.
She-Hulk's adjustment was the result of a bug.
Morningstar and BWCV's adjustment is the result of a bug.
She-Hulk's adjustment warranted a Rank Down Ticket.
Morningstar and BWCV's adjustment also warrants rank down tickets.
Kabam even stated in the She-Hulk announcement, they recognize that, obvious or not, there are some players that likely ranked She Hulk not knowing this repeatable ability was unintended, so players need to evaluate the change to see if they're worth the resources once they're fixed. How is that any different than this.
For me, the degree to which a champion changes doesn't matter. When Cull Obsidian was re-balanced, he didn't change much, but he was adjusted downward, so Rank Down Tickets were given out. This is how it should go. Are Morningstar and BWCV impacted by this change less than She Hulk was by hers? Of course. But they were adjusted down nonetheless and should be ranked down if the player so chooses.
Why the single minded insistence from you, really and others that the code be changed to match the description?
I happily took Morningstar to 6* r2 if it meant I would save myself a thousand units on revives. Plus, it’s a return on investment, completing Act 6 100% will net me more materials and rewards. It’s not a waste to rank a specific champ for a specifically hard boss if it means it will save you units, revives or real money to get through.
If i were aware it was a bug I would have either saved my resources and waited until I got a good counter to 100% 6.2 or would have taken a different champ to r2 who I could use for Abyss
Flow
Kamala
Thing
Parry
Morningstar
Bwcv
Gulk and bane
Benefits the players; bug that must be fixed, leave the text
Benefits kabam; working as intended, change the text
What baffles me is the players in these forums who only want changes that benefit kabam.
Again you’re grasping at straws bud I clearly said that you bare face indestructible In general vs she hulk where you can spam heavies or chain heavies In ALL fights
These two situations are completely different
YouTube videos explicitly said she was one of the top champs and
The only thing you’re right is about she hulk and the regen fix is that it took this long
But in reality no one used she hulk that much pre or post buff so in reality very little was said over all does show a lot of incompetence I’m the game team
One fight should not determine rank down tickets, especially if the bug is relating towards very very minor aspects of the game indestructible is still rare in the game and the chances of using BWCV or MS against those abilities are rare as it is
She hulk heavy combo wouldn’t be as easily noticeable as a bug because people obviously assume it’s just the way her animations work same way different champs have longer light attacks or heavy
This on the other hand is just a clear bug
I'll reiterate the heart of my position: if any champ is allowed to exist for an extended period of time and a bug is discovered that requires a fix that adjusts the champ in a negative way, rank down tickets should be issued.
For an extreme example, if they came out and said tomorrow that Limbo was not intended to erase the damage from Recoil when using Magik, that would be a huge change and clearly rank down tickets would be warranted. I'd also argue that if Kabam stated that a coding error gave Ghost 1% more health than she's supposed to have and she'd be adjusted down in the next update, I'd also say that rank down tickets are warranted.
Why?
Kabam can't possibly know exactly why any given individual ranked up a champ. Maybe you run suicides all the time and only rank champs that are suicide friendly. All they can say is you ranked up a champ based on your own experience with the game, whether it's playing yourself or watching videos. Rank up decisions are made on those experiences. Changing the way champions function, even to fix bugs, can have a negative impact on the player.
To be clear, I've got 4 paths left in Abyss. Outside of that, I've cleared all content in the game. If I got Rank Down Tickets, I likely wouldn't use them (except possibly for inventory control), so that's not why I'm making a case for them.
I'm making a case because I enjoy this game. When the community gets upset, I'm generally right there with them. I still don't have an Archangel as a 5*, but I was frustrated for all the people who did when they fixed his bug years ago without any compensation. People are still mad about that. I feel Kabam made a big step in the right direction with how they handled She-Hulk. Some people were upset, but no one was really out anything because of how they handled things. They took it a step further with the Namor/Cull rank down tickets. Again, champs were adjusted downward, Rank Down Tickets were given out. This is how it should be.
If one needs to make some arbitrary scale about how much a champ has changed each time something like this happens to figure out if RDT's are warranted, you're going to flood the forums each time. However, if you have a blanket policy that each downward adjustment walks hand-in-hand with RDT's, it not only keeps the players happy, but it also gives Kabam more incentive to keep a finger on the pulse of the community so bugs like this don't fester for too long. I'm sure they don't LIKE doing the work involved with sorting out Rank Down Tickets, but to be fair, they always stem from their own mistakes.
I'm not arguing for RDT's for this case. I'm arguing for the policy so we don't have to have this discussion during the inevitable "next time".
I'm not disagreeing. It's a bug that should be fixed. All I'm saying is that the bug existed for so long that there are some out there that ranked up these champs without knowing this interaction was bugged. These people will have the rug pulled out from under them and it's not fair to them to give them no recourse for their decision since they made their decision based on the information available to them in the game.
Trying to understand how is this a bug in the first place lol
I'm setting aside the whole "benefited them" nonsense here as it is irrelevant. Bugs that make the content more difficult get fixed to the same degree as bugs that make the content easier for some players.
So how much health would you expect MS to heal if she lands an attack for zero damage?
Far easier to change the text, than change the code.
They ignore Gulk/bane, Kamala, flow, thing sp3, parry; indeed on the latter, they just changed the text.
The only reason they want to "fix" this, is because it benefits the player base, 1,000s of whom have already used it.