You guys have had almost all this feedback for months and months...this really shouldn't take this long. Were you paying zero attention to people's concerns before the backlash exploded?
You guys have had almost all this feedback for months and months...this really shouldn't take this long. Were you paying zero attention to people's concerns before the backlash exploded?
They weren't really paying attention. If they were, things never would have gotten this bad.
You guys have had almost all this feedback for months and months...this really shouldn't take this long. Were you paying zero attention to people's concerns before the backlash exploded?
Dude, when I think about it Dorky Dave did that interview with them and they could have taken that stuff serious then., but they just ignored it and acted all surprised when people got mad
You guys have had almost all this feedback for months and months...this really shouldn't take this long. Were you paying zero attention to people's concerns before the backlash exploded?
Dude, when I think about it Dorky Dave did that interview with them and they could have taken that stuff serious then., but they just ignored it and acted all surprised when people got mad
They have long assumed (and have generally been correct) that if they just made the appearance of listening (rather than actually acting) that the community would have its moments of outrage and then everything would die down. This forum is evidence of that. This time it seem different. Content creators bailing left and right (seatin hasn't even logged in to the game for 6 days). At this point, I can't even imagine what could be included in the roadmap that would bring them all back or make me want to drop cash on July 4th.
I really thought today was the day for the big announcement. Like a lot of people on here, and you tube has said. This one announcement is going to make or break the game.
People are looking forward to it, but I don't agree that it will make or break the game.
Why? Lots of people are only hanging around for the Roadmap at this point.
The Roadmap is not going to make or break the game. People are still playing. Some are upset, some are talking about leaving. That's all fair. Saying the game will fall if they do is just egotistical.
Except if this doesnt address any of the concerns then I wont see this game last another year. Funny how you still dont realise how much everyone is riding on this. Myself i don't play anymore, im done just logging in daily and thats its.
I disagree with that one. What percentage do you think is at the End-Game level, waiting on this Announcement? 5%? 10% maybe? I'd say lower than 10. Am I saying their feedback doesn't matter? No. Am I saying it's collateral damage if people quit? No. Obviously they want people to play. What I am saying is it's an exaggeration to say the game will go down if they don’t get what they want. There's an entire Player Base outside of them, still playing. They don't even come to the Forum half the time. They just play the game. I also retired and logged on once a day. Here we are some months later, and I'm back. The break did wonders.
The issue is that the 5-10% that are the end game players, will likely make up 80-90% of the revenue Kabam makes. So yes, they are the minority of people who play the kabam, but they are the whales that keep Kabam as a viable business. I’m not saying unhappiness at the roadmap will definitely end the game, but it absolutely pushes it down the path that could lead to the end.
Stop and think about those numbers. 80-90% of their revenue? That isn't even logically sensical. For that matter, I've heard that threat for years now. "We own this game. If we stop spending, the game dies. Make us happy, or we walk." All that equates to is, give us what we want, or we kill your game. The game would survive.
So what do you think is more likely. That the revenue received is spread evenly across all players, or concentrated by a smaller % of top whales. Of course there will be those in between that drop a few pounds here or there, but logically the vast proportion of money spent in the game is by those in the top 5% of Alliances. The majority of players don’t come to these forums. Might not even know the forums exist. These are also mostly likely to be FTP whose continuation of playing the game doesn’t pay anyone’s wages at Kabam.
Also I never said “make us happy or we walk” or “we own the game”. Kabam owns the game. They can do what they want, but actions do consequences, good, bad and indifferent. For the majority of people in this thread and who play the game, the sentiment isn’t do ‘x’ and ‘y’ or we walk. It’s we’re frustrated with the game, please give us a reason to continue to play. The outcome maybe the same, but the sentiment is very different to how you portray it. A byproduct of not playing is also not spending. Kabam know this otherwise they wouldn’t have even entertained any sort of new roadmap.
No. I don't think that 80-90% of their revenue comes from the top 5%. Those numbers are just plain exaggerated. It's also pretty conflated to say they pay their salary. The Employees work on a salary. They certainly don't see the money that COW drops. What's good for the company is good for all, sure. They're getting paid either way. You may not have said those words, although passively implying that not playing is not spending doesn't go unnoticed. I'm not really talking about people who want something to look forward to. I'm talking about the ones making threats and talking about Boycotts, the ones saying they're leaving and the game will fall if they do, the ones perpetuating a coup, the ones that think if Kabam doesn't give them what they want, it'll all come crumbling down. Kabam is alot more patient than I am. Put it this way. If it was my game, I'd rather lose 30% revenue and rebuild with the demographic that is loyal, than to be held over a barrel every 2 years.
I agree with you that 80-90% of the revenue comes from just the top 20 alliances is false but they generate enough money in the game to have an impact and if they left their impact will be felt.
Also, what is this loyalty talk. Kabam is a video game company, if anyone wants to pick up another game they have that right, if anyone wants to criticize Kabam and hold them accountable to create a better game they should do so as well. As a customer feedback is to help make a better product.
Customer feedback isn't what I'm talking about. If it was just feedback, I wouldn't have made the point. What I addressed was the threats and the implication that the game itself hinges on the Announcement.
I mean, it does. And people aren't threatening anything, they're simply stating their intentions.
I really thought today was the day for the big announcement. Like a lot of people on here, and you tube has said. This one announcement is going to make or break the game.
People are looking forward to it, but I don't agree that it will make or break the game.
Why? Lots of people are only hanging around for the Roadmap at this point.
The Roadmap is not going to make or break the game. People are still playing. Some are upset, some are talking about leaving. That's all fair. Saying the game will fall if they do is just egotistical.
Except if this doesnt address any of the concerns then I wont see this game last another year. Funny how you still dont realise how much everyone is riding on this. Myself i don't play anymore, im done just logging in daily and thats its.
I disagree with that one. What percentage do you think is at the End-Game level, waiting on this Announcement? 5%? 10% maybe? I'd say lower than 10. Am I saying their feedback doesn't matter? No. Am I saying it's collateral damage if people quit? No. Obviously they want people to play. What I am saying is it's an exaggeration to say the game will go down if they don’t get what they want. There's an entire Player Base outside of them, still playing. They don't even come to the Forum half the time. They just play the game. I also retired and logged on once a day. Here we are some months later, and I'm back. The break did wonders.
The issue is that the 5-10% that are the end game players, will likely make up 80-90% of the revenue Kabam makes. So yes, they are the minority of people who play the kabam, but they are the whales that keep Kabam as a viable business. I’m not saying unhappiness at the roadmap will definitely end the game, but it absolutely pushes it down the path that could lead to the end.
Stop and think about those numbers. 80-90% of their revenue? That isn't even logically sensical. For that matter, I've heard that threat for years now. "We own this game. If we stop spending, the game dies. Make us happy, or we walk." All that equates to is, give us what we want, or we kill your game. The game would survive.
So what do you think is more likely. That the revenue received is spread evenly across all players, or concentrated by a smaller % of top whales. Of course there will be those in between that drop a few pounds here or there, but logically the vast proportion of money spent in the game is by those in the top 5% of Alliances. The majority of players don’t come to these forums. Might not even know the forums exist. These are also mostly likely to be FTP whose continuation of playing the game doesn’t pay anyone’s wages at Kabam.
Also I never said “make us happy or we walk” or “we own the game”. Kabam owns the game. They can do what they want, but actions do consequences, good, bad and indifferent. For the majority of people in this thread and who play the game, the sentiment isn’t do ‘x’ and ‘y’ or we walk. It’s we’re frustrated with the game, please give us a reason to continue to play. The outcome maybe the same, but the sentiment is very different to how you portray it. A byproduct of not playing is also not spending. Kabam know this otherwise they wouldn’t have even entertained any sort of new roadmap.
No. I don't think that 80-90% of their revenue comes from the top 5%. Those numbers are just plain exaggerated. It's also pretty conflated to say they pay their salary. The Employees work on a salary. They certainly don't see the money that COW drops. What's good for the company is good for all, sure. They're getting paid either way. You may not have said those words, although passively implying that not playing is not spending doesn't go unnoticed. I'm not really talking about people who want something to look forward to. I'm talking about the ones making threats and talking about Boycotts, the ones saying they're leaving and the game will fall if they do, the ones perpetuating a coup, the ones that think if Kabam doesn't give them what they want, it'll all come crumbling down. Kabam is alot more patient than I am. Put it this way. If it was my game, I'd rather lose 30% revenue and rebuild with the demographic that is loyal, than to be held over a barrel every 2 years.
I agree with you that 80-90% of the revenue comes from just the top 20 alliances is false but they generate enough money in the game to have an impact and if they left their impact will be felt.
Also, what is this loyalty talk. Kabam is a video game company, if anyone wants to pick up another game they have that right, if anyone wants to criticize Kabam and hold them accountable to create a better game they should do so as well. As a customer feedback is to help make a better product.
Customer feedback isn't what I'm talking about. If it was just feedback, I wouldn't have made the point. What I addressed was the threats and the implication that the game itself hinges on the Announcement.
I mean, it does. And people aren't threatening anything, they're simply stating their intentions.
No it doesn't, and this entire process has had an undertone of the game ending. It's passive-aggressive.
How is it possible that you're on the forum so much but are still so out of touch with the rest of the players? Why do you think it doesn't?
I think it doesn't because I see past my own nose. There's an entire game going on outside the portion of people saying they're leaving if they don't like what they see.
Not sure what's wrong with that?... If I'm running a business, I want to provide my customers what they like cause if they don't like it, they will leave and if my customers leave, my business is done for..
It's the customers that run the business no matter how big and small. Without customers no business can last long.
Yes, if you're running a business, you do your best to accommodate to everyone. You just can't make everyone happy all the time. In fact, some customers are just going to be displeased no matter what you do. They have a laundry list of issues and resentments, and they've already decided that nothing will make them happy because the company owes them something. Not all customers, but that's definitely a statement that applies to customer service in general. Not just this game. Any customer service, really. You do your best to make as many people happy as you can, but there's a difference between feedback and ultimatums. Walk into Walmart and tell them if they don't give you what you want, you'll bring them down. They'll offer you a smiley sticker on the way out the door.
I really thought today was the day for the big announcement. Like a lot of people on here, and you tube has said. This one announcement is going to make or break the game.
People are looking forward to it, but I don't agree that it will make or break the game.
Why? Lots of people are only hanging around for the Roadmap at this point.
The Roadmap is not going to make or break the game. People are still playing. Some are upset, some are talking about leaving. That's all fair. Saying the game will fall if they do is just egotistical.
Except if this doesnt address any of the concerns then I wont see this game last another year. Funny how you still dont realise how much everyone is riding on this. Myself i don't play anymore, im done just logging in daily and thats its.
I disagree with that one. What percentage do you think is at the End-Game level, waiting on this Announcement? 5%? 10% maybe? I'd say lower than 10. Am I saying their feedback doesn't matter? No. Am I saying it's collateral damage if people quit? No. Obviously they want people to play. What I am saying is it's an exaggeration to say the game will go down if they don’t get what they want. There's an entire Player Base outside of them, still playing. They don't even come to the Forum half the time. They just play the game. I also retired and logged on once a day. Here we are some months later, and I'm back. The break did wonders.
The issue is that the 5-10% that are the end game players, will likely make up 80-90% of the revenue Kabam makes. So yes, they are the minority of people who play the kabam, but they are the whales that keep Kabam as a viable business. I’m not saying unhappiness at the roadmap will definitely end the game, but it absolutely pushes it down the path that could lead to the end.
Stop and think about those numbers. 80-90% of their revenue? That isn't even logically sensical. For that matter, I've heard that threat for years now. "We own this game. If we stop spending, the game dies. Make us happy, or we walk." All that equates to is, give us what we want, or we kill your game. The game would survive.
So what do you think is more likely. That the revenue received is spread evenly across all players, or concentrated by a smaller % of top whales. Of course there will be those in between that drop a few pounds here or there, but logically the vast proportion of money spent in the game is by those in the top 5% of Alliances. The majority of players don’t come to these forums. Might not even know the forums exist. These are also mostly likely to be FTP whose continuation of playing the game doesn’t pay anyone’s wages at Kabam.
Also I never said “make us happy or we walk” or “we own the game”. Kabam owns the game. They can do what they want, but actions do consequences, good, bad and indifferent. For the majority of people in this thread and who play the game, the sentiment isn’t do ‘x’ and ‘y’ or we walk. It’s we’re frustrated with the game, please give us a reason to continue to play. The outcome maybe the same, but the sentiment is very different to how you portray it. A byproduct of not playing is also not spending. Kabam know this otherwise they wouldn’t have even entertained any sort of new roadmap.
No. I don't think that 80-90% of their revenue comes from the top 5%. Those numbers are just plain exaggerated. It's also pretty conflated to say they pay their salary. The Employees work on a salary. They certainly don't see the money that COW drops. What's good for the company is good for all, sure. They're getting paid either way. You may not have said those words, although passively implying that not playing is not spending doesn't go unnoticed. I'm not really talking about people who want something to look forward to. I'm talking about the ones making threats and talking about Boycotts, the ones saying they're leaving and the game will fall if they do, the ones perpetuating a coup, the ones that think if Kabam doesn't give them what they want, it'll all come crumbling down. Kabam is alot more patient than I am. Put it this way. If it was my game, I'd rather lose 30% revenue and rebuild with the demographic that is loyal, than to be held over a barrel every 2 years.
I agree with you that 80-90% of the revenue comes from just the top 20 alliances is false but they generate enough money in the game to have an impact and if they left their impact will be felt.
Also, what is this loyalty talk. Kabam is a video game company, if anyone wants to pick up another game they have that right, if anyone wants to criticize Kabam and hold them accountable to create a better game they should do so as well. As a customer feedback is to help make a better product.
Customer feedback isn't what I'm talking about. If it was just feedback, I wouldn't have made the point. What I addressed was the threats and the implication that the game itself hinges on the Announcement.
I mean, it does. And people aren't threatening anything, they're simply stating their intentions.
I really thought today was the day for the big announcement. Like a lot of people on here, and you tube has said. This one announcement is going to make or break the game.
People are looking forward to it, but I don't agree that it will make or break the game.
Why? Lots of people are only hanging around for the Roadmap at this point.
The Roadmap is not going to make or break the game. People are still playing. Some are upset, some are talking about leaving. That's all fair. Saying the game will fall if they do is just egotistical.
Except if this doesnt address any of the concerns then I wont see this game last another year. Funny how you still dont realise how much everyone is riding on this. Myself i don't play anymore, im done just logging in daily and thats its.
I disagree with that one. What percentage do you think is at the End-Game level, waiting on this Announcement? 5%? 10% maybe? I'd say lower than 10. Am I saying their feedback doesn't matter? No. Am I saying it's collateral damage if people quit? No. Obviously they want people to play. What I am saying is it's an exaggeration to say the game will go down if they don’t get what they want. There's an entire Player Base outside of them, still playing. They don't even come to the Forum half the time. They just play the game. I also retired and logged on once a day. Here we are some months later, and I'm back. The break did wonders.
The issue is that the 5-10% that are the end game players, will likely make up 80-90% of the revenue Kabam makes. So yes, they are the minority of people who play the kabam, but they are the whales that keep Kabam as a viable business. I’m not saying unhappiness at the roadmap will definitely end the game, but it absolutely pushes it down the path that could lead to the end.
Stop and think about those numbers. 80-90% of their revenue? That isn't even logically sensical. For that matter, I've heard that threat for years now. "We own this game. If we stop spending, the game dies. Make us happy, or we walk." All that equates to is, give us what we want, or we kill your game. The game would survive.
So what do you think is more likely. That the revenue received is spread evenly across all players, or concentrated by a smaller % of top whales. Of course there will be those in between that drop a few pounds here or there, but logically the vast proportion of money spent in the game is by those in the top 5% of Alliances. The majority of players don’t come to these forums. Might not even know the forums exist. These are also mostly likely to be FTP whose continuation of playing the game doesn’t pay anyone’s wages at Kabam.
Also I never said “make us happy or we walk” or “we own the game”. Kabam owns the game. They can do what they want, but actions do consequences, good, bad and indifferent. For the majority of people in this thread and who play the game, the sentiment isn’t do ‘x’ and ‘y’ or we walk. It’s we’re frustrated with the game, please give us a reason to continue to play. The outcome maybe the same, but the sentiment is very different to how you portray it. A byproduct of not playing is also not spending. Kabam know this otherwise they wouldn’t have even entertained any sort of new roadmap.
No. I don't think that 80-90% of their revenue comes from the top 5%. Those numbers are just plain exaggerated. It's also pretty conflated to say they pay their salary. The Employees work on a salary. They certainly don't see the money that COW drops. What's good for the company is good for all, sure. They're getting paid either way. You may not have said those words, although passively implying that not playing is not spending doesn't go unnoticed. I'm not really talking about people who want something to look forward to. I'm talking about the ones making threats and talking about Boycotts, the ones saying they're leaving and the game will fall if they do, the ones perpetuating a coup, the ones that think if Kabam doesn't give them what they want, it'll all come crumbling down. Kabam is alot more patient than I am. Put it this way. If it was my game, I'd rather lose 30% revenue and rebuild with the demographic that is loyal, than to be held over a barrel every 2 years.
I agree with you that 80-90% of the revenue comes from just the top 20 alliances is false but they generate enough money in the game to have an impact and if they left their impact will be felt.
Also, what is this loyalty talk. Kabam is a video game company, if anyone wants to pick up another game they have that right, if anyone wants to criticize Kabam and hold them accountable to create a better game they should do so as well. As a customer feedback is to help make a better product.
Customer feedback isn't what I'm talking about. If it was just feedback, I wouldn't have made the point. What I addressed was the threats and the implication that the game itself hinges on the Announcement.
I mean, it does. And people aren't threatening anything, they're simply stating their intentions.
No it doesn't, and this entire process has had an undertone of the game ending. It's passive-aggressive.
How is it possible that you're on the forum so much but are still so out of touch with the rest of the players? Why do you think it doesn't?
I think it doesn't because I see past my own nose. There's an entire game going on outside the portion of people saying they're leaving if they don't like what they see.
Not sure what's wrong with that?... If I'm running a business, I want to provide my customers what they like cause if they don't like it, they will leave and if my customers leave, my business is done for..
It's the customers that run the business no matter how big and small. Without customers no business can last long.
Yes, if you're running a business, you do your best to accommodate to everyone. You just can't make everyone happy all the time. In fact, some customers are just going to be displeased no matter what you do. They have a laundry list of issues and resentments, and they've already decided that nothing will make them happy because the company owes them something. Not all customers, but that's definitely a statement that applies to customer service in general. Not just this game. Any customer service, really. You do your best to make as many people happy as you can, but there's a difference between feedback and ultimatums. Walk into Walmart and tell them if they don't give you what you want, you'll bring them down. They'll offer you a smiley sticker on the way out the door.
You're right that you can't make everyone happy but how many do you think are happy with the game right now? (except you). If the majority was happy with the game, this thread wouldn't exist right now.
I really thought today was the day for the big announcement. Like a lot of people on here, and you tube has said. This one announcement is going to make or break the game.
People are looking forward to it, but I don't agree that it will make or break the game.
Why? Lots of people are only hanging around for the Roadmap at this point.
The Roadmap is not going to make or break the game. People are still playing. Some are upset, some are talking about leaving. That's all fair. Saying the game will fall if they do is just egotistical.
Except if this doesnt address any of the concerns then I wont see this game last another year. Funny how you still dont realise how much everyone is riding on this. Myself i don't play anymore, im done just logging in daily and thats its.
I disagree with that one. What percentage do you think is at the End-Game level, waiting on this Announcement? 5%? 10% maybe? I'd say lower than 10. Am I saying their feedback doesn't matter? No. Am I saying it's collateral damage if people quit? No. Obviously they want people to play. What I am saying is it's an exaggeration to say the game will go down if they don’t get what they want. There's an entire Player Base outside of them, still playing. They don't even come to the Forum half the time. They just play the game. I also retired and logged on once a day. Here we are some months later, and I'm back. The break did wonders.
The issue is that the 5-10% that are the end game players, will likely make up 80-90% of the revenue Kabam makes. So yes, they are the minority of people who play the kabam, but they are the whales that keep Kabam as a viable business. I’m not saying unhappiness at the roadmap will definitely end the game, but it absolutely pushes it down the path that could lead to the end.
Stop and think about those numbers. 80-90% of their revenue? That isn't even logically sensical. For that matter, I've heard that threat for years now. "We own this game. If we stop spending, the game dies. Make us happy, or we walk." All that equates to is, give us what we want, or we kill your game. The game would survive.
So what do you think is more likely. That the revenue received is spread evenly across all players, or concentrated by a smaller % of top whales. Of course there will be those in between that drop a few pounds here or there, but logically the vast proportion of money spent in the game is by those in the top 5% of Alliances. The majority of players don’t come to these forums. Might not even know the forums exist. These are also mostly likely to be FTP whose continuation of playing the game doesn’t pay anyone’s wages at Kabam.
Also I never said “make us happy or we walk” or “we own the game”. Kabam owns the game. They can do what they want, but actions do consequences, good, bad and indifferent. For the majority of people in this thread and who play the game, the sentiment isn’t do ‘x’ and ‘y’ or we walk. It’s we’re frustrated with the game, please give us a reason to continue to play. The outcome maybe the same, but the sentiment is very different to how you portray it. A byproduct of not playing is also not spending. Kabam know this otherwise they wouldn’t have even entertained any sort of new roadmap.
No. I don't think that 80-90% of their revenue comes from the top 5%. Those numbers are just plain exaggerated. It's also pretty conflated to say they pay their salary. The Employees work on a salary. They certainly don't see the money that COW drops. What's good for the company is good for all, sure. They're getting paid either way. You may not have said those words, although passively implying that not playing is not spending doesn't go unnoticed. I'm not really talking about people who want something to look forward to. I'm talking about the ones making threats and talking about Boycotts, the ones saying they're leaving and the game will fall if they do, the ones perpetuating a coup, the ones that think if Kabam doesn't give them what they want, it'll all come crumbling down. Kabam is alot more patient than I am. Put it this way. If it was my game, I'd rather lose 30% revenue and rebuild with the demographic that is loyal, than to be held over a barrel every 2 years.
I agree with you that 80-90% of the revenue comes from just the top 20 alliances is false but they generate enough money in the game to have an impact and if they left their impact will be felt.
Also, what is this loyalty talk. Kabam is a video game company, if anyone wants to pick up another game they have that right, if anyone wants to criticize Kabam and hold them accountable to create a better game they should do so as well. As a customer feedback is to help make a better product.
Customer feedback isn't what I'm talking about. If it was just feedback, I wouldn't have made the point. What I addressed was the threats and the implication that the game itself hinges on the Announcement.
I mean, it does. And people aren't threatening anything, they're simply stating their intentions.
I really thought today was the day for the big announcement. Like a lot of people on here, and you tube has said. This one announcement is going to make or break the game.
People are looking forward to it, but I don't agree that it will make or break the game.
Why? Lots of people are only hanging around for the Roadmap at this point.
The Roadmap is not going to make or break the game. People are still playing. Some are upset, some are talking about leaving. That's all fair. Saying the game will fall if they do is just egotistical.
Except if this doesnt address any of the concerns then I wont see this game last another year. Funny how you still dont realise how much everyone is riding on this. Myself i don't play anymore, im done just logging in daily and thats its.
I disagree with that one. What percentage do you think is at the End-Game level, waiting on this Announcement? 5%? 10% maybe? I'd say lower than 10. Am I saying their feedback doesn't matter? No. Am I saying it's collateral damage if people quit? No. Obviously they want people to play. What I am saying is it's an exaggeration to say the game will go down if they don’t get what they want. There's an entire Player Base outside of them, still playing. They don't even come to the Forum half the time. They just play the game. I also retired and logged on once a day. Here we are some months later, and I'm back. The break did wonders.
The issue is that the 5-10% that are the end game players, will likely make up 80-90% of the revenue Kabam makes. So yes, they are the minority of people who play the kabam, but they are the whales that keep Kabam as a viable business. I’m not saying unhappiness at the roadmap will definitely end the game, but it absolutely pushes it down the path that could lead to the end.
Stop and think about those numbers. 80-90% of their revenue? That isn't even logically sensical. For that matter, I've heard that threat for years now. "We own this game. If we stop spending, the game dies. Make us happy, or we walk." All that equates to is, give us what we want, or we kill your game. The game would survive.
So what do you think is more likely. That the revenue received is spread evenly across all players, or concentrated by a smaller % of top whales. Of course there will be those in between that drop a few pounds here or there, but logically the vast proportion of money spent in the game is by those in the top 5% of Alliances. The majority of players don’t come to these forums. Might not even know the forums exist. These are also mostly likely to be FTP whose continuation of playing the game doesn’t pay anyone’s wages at Kabam.
Also I never said “make us happy or we walk” or “we own the game”. Kabam owns the game. They can do what they want, but actions do consequences, good, bad and indifferent. For the majority of people in this thread and who play the game, the sentiment isn’t do ‘x’ and ‘y’ or we walk. It’s we’re frustrated with the game, please give us a reason to continue to play. The outcome maybe the same, but the sentiment is very different to how you portray it. A byproduct of not playing is also not spending. Kabam know this otherwise they wouldn’t have even entertained any sort of new roadmap.
No. I don't think that 80-90% of their revenue comes from the top 5%. Those numbers are just plain exaggerated. It's also pretty conflated to say they pay their salary. The Employees work on a salary. They certainly don't see the money that COW drops. What's good for the company is good for all, sure. They're getting paid either way. You may not have said those words, although passively implying that not playing is not spending doesn't go unnoticed. I'm not really talking about people who want something to look forward to. I'm talking about the ones making threats and talking about Boycotts, the ones saying they're leaving and the game will fall if they do, the ones perpetuating a coup, the ones that think if Kabam doesn't give them what they want, it'll all come crumbling down. Kabam is alot more patient than I am. Put it this way. If it was my game, I'd rather lose 30% revenue and rebuild with the demographic that is loyal, than to be held over a barrel every 2 years.
I agree with you that 80-90% of the revenue comes from just the top 20 alliances is false but they generate enough money in the game to have an impact and if they left their impact will be felt.
Also, what is this loyalty talk. Kabam is a video game company, if anyone wants to pick up another game they have that right, if anyone wants to criticize Kabam and hold them accountable to create a better game they should do so as well. As a customer feedback is to help make a better product.
Customer feedback isn't what I'm talking about. If it was just feedback, I wouldn't have made the point. What I addressed was the threats and the implication that the game itself hinges on the Announcement.
I mean, it does. And people aren't threatening anything, they're simply stating their intentions.
No it doesn't, and this entire process has had an undertone of the game ending. It's passive-aggressive.
How is it possible that you're on the forum so much but are still so out of touch with the rest of the players? Why do you think it doesn't?
I think it doesn't because I see past my own nose. There's an entire game going on outside the portion of people saying they're leaving if they don't like what they see.
Not sure what's wrong with that?... If I'm running a business, I want to provide my customers what they like cause if they don't like it, they will leave and if my customers leave, my business is done for..
It's the customers that run the business no matter how big and small. Without customers no business can last long.
Yes, if you're running a business, you do your best to accommodate to everyone. You just can't make everyone happy all the time. In fact, some customers are just going to be displeased no matter what you do. They have a laundry list of issues and resentments, and they've already decided that nothing will make them happy because the company owes them something. Not all customers, but that's definitely a statement that applies to customer service in general. Not just this game. Any customer service, really. You do your best to make as many people happy as you can, but there's a difference between feedback and ultimatums. Walk into Walmart and tell them if they don't give you what you want, you'll bring them down. They'll offer you a smiley sticker on the way out the door.
You're right that you can't make everyone happy but how many do you think are happy with the game right now? (except you). If the majority was happy with the game, this thread wouldn't exist right now.
The Forum isn't comprised of the majority of the game. The bulk of people are just playing the game. Much less who are at Act 6 or past, and are unhappy with not getting the 6* pulls they want. Again, I'm not saying their feedback isn't important. I'm just saying they don't make up the entire game.
We need more choice instead of chance. I know everybody's always worried about "well you can't let everybody have a corvus glaive" well guess what, all the top players and end players already do. Stop dangling the carrot Kabam.
So you want to let people choose which characters they get? I'm all for limiting the champ pool, but not for directly choosing a champion.
Agreed. The smallest pool a crystal should be is ten champs, like incursion crystals. RNG is a pain, but it is necessary for the game I think.
The pool doesn't matter, just increase the odds to target a certain champion. The featured 5* crystal that has the 20% drop rate for a champion should return. They started tailoring content around certain champions and then removed our ability to target champions. We need that crystal now more than ever.
20% is far too high with as readily available 5* shards are now. That's the whole reason it got scrapped. 10% with a 10 champ pool is a bit more tolerable. It's still fairly high odds and more than double the featured 5* odds but leaving it at 20% basically guarantees anyone can get any champ at this point. That's just not healthy for the game and would basically make basic crystals pointless unless the new crystal was exorbitantly expensive
20% is definitely not too high and why does everyone parrot the whole targeting isnt "healthy" for the game. We had 20% crystals before and arguably that was the peak of the game in terms of it being enjoyable.
Being able to targeting *specific* champs is plenty bad for the game. That's why we don't have that crystal anymore. You had two, and only two choices. You could keep that crystal and keep 5* shards permanently scarce. Or you could make 5* shards more accessible and lose that crystal. And the moment kabam decided to make 5* shards more accessible, your choices went from two to one.
This isn't some arbitrary decision by Kabam either. A large part of the game, including a big chunk of what funds the game's existence, is chasing champions. If you can easily target one specific champion, that chase is over, and the game is also over. There's also the psychological laddering issue. If we're allowed to collect champions in the order we want, it is inevitable that every champion we target will be less valuable than the previous one, because we're always going to target champions in the order we think they are valuable. Even accounting for new champs being added to the game, that's a strong negative pressure. Games that involve collection pursuit all face similar constraints.
The reason why 20% was too high is also not arbitrary. When players could only buy one or two of those crystals per cycle, then that number represented the chance a player might get that champion. But when it became possible to buy literally *dozens* of those crystals per cycle, it was no longer a question of if, but just a question of how much shards it would take to all but guarantee getting the champ.
The problem isn't that there's a low chance to get the specific champ you want. You're not going to be able to do that regardless. The only problem that is solvable, and would improve RNG crystal acquisition, is reducing the downside. The floor of how useful the champions are can be raised, without explicitly allowing players to bypass random chance and just get the champ they want with high chance of success.
While the precise % may be too high at something like 20%, I’m curious who actually gets harmed by a structure similar to the old crystal. That’s an honest question—not trying to be combative.
It’s easy to find endgame accounts that nab the newest champ and immediately elevate them to R5 and high/max sig. Many of those accounts are playing with a full deck of R2/3 6* awakened and L100+, so I don’t see how even the current system does much to “slow” the rapid accumulation of a new champ for them.
Lower tier players have traditionally been able to buy new champ crystals, but I suspect a more targeted featured crystal wouldn’t significantly accelerate the influx of new champs for them either—and many are restricted from getting anything beyond 4*/5* based on their Summoner level. If they did land a great new champ, that also might be the event that fully engages them in the game, something I’ve seen happen many times among ally mates and friends. Getting lucky on one Blade featured long ago probably kept me playing in 2018.
For the upper tier but non-endgame player (where I would place myself), the 5* crystal is nigh irrelevant. I’m sitting on 130-ish 5*’s and, excluding the purchasable champs and special champs, I’m lacking 20-ish 5*’s. Of those, I may realistically want 2 or 3 and maybe 1/4 champ pulls are what I would consider “additive.” The thrill of the 5* champ chase is for all intents and purposes non-existent; 5* shards are just a proxy for sig stones for me.
I don’t include 6*’s at all, because I think they stand apart and have their own problems. But I’m curious to know how being able to more specifically target what a player wants and needs (especially as it relates to being able to target specific content they’d like to tackle) is a bad thing. The analogy I’d use is the carrot that’s dangled too long—eventually, the poor beast loses interest in carrots altogether and just quits running.
Again, honest questions. Not an attack.
Dr. Zola
Let's unpack this one at a time. First of all, let's look at the players who are whaling out on crystals to nab new champions as fast as possible. Adding a way to get them quickly with some kind of targeted crystal doesn't *slow* them down, it makes them less likely to spend. In other words, a targeted crystal undermines the game's monetization model by taking away the advantage that the whales are spending money to get. And that isn't champions - that's a misunderstanding of the model. Whales don't buy champs, not even the ones that *think* they are buying champs are buying champs. What they are buying is *time*. They get them before we get them. There's no champ the whales spend to get that I won't eventually get for free. The question is when. Any reduction in that time advantage reduces the incentive to spend, so that has to be very carefully considered; you have to balance the speed at which players can acquire specific champs normally with the incentive to bypass that delay by spending.
This also applies to lower tier spending, but here you also face a different problem. You say that a targeted crystal wouldn't accelerate the influx of those new champs. But that depends on how good the targeted crystal is. If the numbers are low enough that would be true, but then the crystal would also be worthless to such players. It is literally impossible to make a crystal that helps players acquire champions, but doesn't increase the influx of those champions in a noticeable way.
If you are chasing champs, how quickly you can chase them is relevant and thus the structure of the crystals that create that opportunity is relevant. If you aren't chasing champs, the crystals themselves are irrelevant and any improvement in their structure would be equally irrelevant.
So to answer the question, being able to specifically target specific champs in a meaningful way can be detrimental because for players that are spending money to get them this would reduce the advantage they are spending money to get, devaluing their spending. For players that are pursuing them more conventionally, either the crystal accelerates that, and above a certain threshold that acceleration is problematic for reasons I mentioned earlier, or it doesn't accelerate them noticeably and the crystal has no perceived benefit. The gap between those two does exist, but it is both narrow and difficult to quantify. And for players not pursuing champs, offering better ways to target champs is harmless, but also meaningless. They don't factor into the discussion at all.
I really thought today was the day for the big announcement. Like a lot of people on here, and you tube has said. This one announcement is going to make or break the game.
People are looking forward to it, but I don't agree that it will make or break the game.
Why? Lots of people are only hanging around for the Roadmap at this point.
The Roadmap is not going to make or break the game. People are still playing. Some are upset, some are talking about leaving. That's all fair. Saying the game will fall if they do is just egotistical.
Except if this doesnt address any of the concerns then I wont see this game last another year. Funny how you still dont realise how much everyone is riding on this. Myself i don't play anymore, im done just logging in daily and thats its.
I disagree with that one. What percentage do you think is at the End-Game level, waiting on this Announcement? 5%? 10% maybe? I'd say lower than 10. Am I saying their feedback doesn't matter? No. Am I saying it's collateral damage if people quit? No. Obviously they want people to play. What I am saying is it's an exaggeration to say the game will go down if they don’t get what they want. There's an entire Player Base outside of them, still playing. They don't even come to the Forum half the time. They just play the game. I also retired and logged on once a day. Here we are some months later, and I'm back. The break did wonders.
The issue is that the 5-10% that are the end game players, will likely make up 80-90% of the revenue Kabam makes. So yes, they are the minority of people who play the kabam, but they are the whales that keep Kabam as a viable business. I’m not saying unhappiness at the roadmap will definitely end the game, but it absolutely pushes it down the path that could lead to the end.
Stop and think about those numbers. 80-90% of their revenue? That isn't even logically sensical. For that matter, I've heard that threat for years now. "We own this game. If we stop spending, the game dies. Make us happy, or we walk." All that equates to is, give us what we want, or we kill your game. The game would survive.
So what do you think is more likely. That the revenue received is spread evenly across all players, or concentrated by a smaller % of top whales. Of course there will be those in between that drop a few pounds here or there, but logically the vast proportion of money spent in the game is by those in the top 5% of Alliances. The majority of players don’t come to these forums. Might not even know the forums exist. These are also mostly likely to be FTP whose continuation of playing the game doesn’t pay anyone’s wages at Kabam.
Also I never said “make us happy or we walk” or “we own the game”. Kabam owns the game. They can do what they want, but actions do consequences, good, bad and indifferent. For the majority of people in this thread and who play the game, the sentiment isn’t do ‘x’ and ‘y’ or we walk. It’s we’re frustrated with the game, please give us a reason to continue to play. The outcome maybe the same, but the sentiment is very different to how you portray it. A byproduct of not playing is also not spending. Kabam know this otherwise they wouldn’t have even entertained any sort of new roadmap.
No. I don't think that 80-90% of their revenue comes from the top 5%. Those numbers are just plain exaggerated. It's also pretty conflated to say they pay their salary. The Employees work on a salary. They certainly don't see the money that COW drops. What's good for the company is good for all, sure. They're getting paid either way. You may not have said those words, although passively implying that not playing is not spending doesn't go unnoticed. I'm not really talking about people who want something to look forward to. I'm talking about the ones making threats and talking about Boycotts, the ones saying they're leaving and the game will fall if they do, the ones perpetuating a coup, the ones that think if Kabam doesn't give them what they want, it'll all come crumbling down. Kabam is alot more patient than I am. Put it this way. If it was my game, I'd rather lose 30% revenue and rebuild with the demographic that is loyal, than to be held over a barrel every 2 years.
I agree with you that 80-90% of the revenue comes from just the top 20 alliances is false but they generate enough money in the game to have an impact and if they left their impact will be felt.
Also, what is this loyalty talk. Kabam is a video game company, if anyone wants to pick up another game they have that right, if anyone wants to criticize Kabam and hold them accountable to create a better game they should do so as well. As a customer feedback is to help make a better product.
Customer feedback isn't what I'm talking about. If it was just feedback, I wouldn't have made the point. What I addressed was the threats and the implication that the game itself hinges on the Announcement.
I mean, it does. And people aren't threatening anything, they're simply stating their intentions.
I really thought today was the day for the big announcement. Like a lot of people on here, and you tube has said. This one announcement is going to make or break the game.
People are looking forward to it, but I don't agree that it will make or break the game.
Why? Lots of people are only hanging around for the Roadmap at this point.
The Roadmap is not going to make or break the game. People are still playing. Some are upset, some are talking about leaving. That's all fair. Saying the game will fall if they do is just egotistical.
Except if this doesnt address any of the concerns then I wont see this game last another year. Funny how you still dont realise how much everyone is riding on this. Myself i don't play anymore, im done just logging in daily and thats its.
I disagree with that one. What percentage do you think is at the End-Game level, waiting on this Announcement? 5%? 10% maybe? I'd say lower than 10. Am I saying their feedback doesn't matter? No. Am I saying it's collateral damage if people quit? No. Obviously they want people to play. What I am saying is it's an exaggeration to say the game will go down if they don’t get what they want. There's an entire Player Base outside of them, still playing. They don't even come to the Forum half the time. They just play the game. I also retired and logged on once a day. Here we are some months later, and I'm back. The break did wonders.
The issue is that the 5-10% that are the end game players, will likely make up 80-90% of the revenue Kabam makes. So yes, they are the minority of people who play the kabam, but they are the whales that keep Kabam as a viable business. I’m not saying unhappiness at the roadmap will definitely end the game, but it absolutely pushes it down the path that could lead to the end.
Stop and think about those numbers. 80-90% of their revenue? That isn't even logically sensical. For that matter, I've heard that threat for years now. "We own this game. If we stop spending, the game dies. Make us happy, or we walk." All that equates to is, give us what we want, or we kill your game. The game would survive.
So what do you think is more likely. That the revenue received is spread evenly across all players, or concentrated by a smaller % of top whales. Of course there will be those in between that drop a few pounds here or there, but logically the vast proportion of money spent in the game is by those in the top 5% of Alliances. The majority of players don’t come to these forums. Might not even know the forums exist. These are also mostly likely to be FTP whose continuation of playing the game doesn’t pay anyone’s wages at Kabam.
Also I never said “make us happy or we walk” or “we own the game”. Kabam owns the game. They can do what they want, but actions do consequences, good, bad and indifferent. For the majority of people in this thread and who play the game, the sentiment isn’t do ‘x’ and ‘y’ or we walk. It’s we’re frustrated with the game, please give us a reason to continue to play. The outcome maybe the same, but the sentiment is very different to how you portray it. A byproduct of not playing is also not spending. Kabam know this otherwise they wouldn’t have even entertained any sort of new roadmap.
No. I don't think that 80-90% of their revenue comes from the top 5%. Those numbers are just plain exaggerated. It's also pretty conflated to say they pay their salary. The Employees work on a salary. They certainly don't see the money that COW drops. What's good for the company is good for all, sure. They're getting paid either way. You may not have said those words, although passively implying that not playing is not spending doesn't go unnoticed. I'm not really talking about people who want something to look forward to. I'm talking about the ones making threats and talking about Boycotts, the ones saying they're leaving and the game will fall if they do, the ones perpetuating a coup, the ones that think if Kabam doesn't give them what they want, it'll all come crumbling down. Kabam is alot more patient than I am. Put it this way. If it was my game, I'd rather lose 30% revenue and rebuild with the demographic that is loyal, than to be held over a barrel every 2 years.
I agree with you that 80-90% of the revenue comes from just the top 20 alliances is false but they generate enough money in the game to have an impact and if they left their impact will be felt.
Also, what is this loyalty talk. Kabam is a video game company, if anyone wants to pick up another game they have that right, if anyone wants to criticize Kabam and hold them accountable to create a better game they should do so as well. As a customer feedback is to help make a better product.
Customer feedback isn't what I'm talking about. If it was just feedback, I wouldn't have made the point. What I addressed was the threats and the implication that the game itself hinges on the Announcement.
I mean, it does. And people aren't threatening anything, they're simply stating their intentions.
No it doesn't, and this entire process has had an undertone of the game ending. It's passive-aggressive.
How is it possible that you're on the forum so much but are still so out of touch with the rest of the players? Why do you think it doesn't?
I think it doesn't because I see past my own nose. There's an entire game going on outside the portion of people saying they're leaving if they don't like what they see.
Not sure what's wrong with that?... If I'm running a business, I want to provide my customers what they like cause if they don't like it, they will leave and if my customers leave, my business is done for..
It's the customers that run the business no matter how big and small. Without customers no business can last long.
Yes, if you're running a business, you do your best to accommodate to everyone. You just can't make everyone happy all the time. In fact, some customers are just going to be displeased no matter what you do. They have a laundry list of issues and resentments, and they've already decided that nothing will make them happy because the company owes them something. Not all customers, but that's definitely a statement that applies to customer service in general. Not just this game. Any customer service, really. You do your best to make as many people happy as you can, but there's a difference between feedback and ultimatums. Walk into Walmart and tell them if they don't give you what you want, you'll bring them down. They'll offer you a smiley sticker on the way out the door.
You're right that you can't make everyone happy but how many do you think are happy with the game right now? (except you). If the majority was happy with the game, this thread wouldn't exist right now.
The Forum isn't comprised of the majority of the game. The bulk of people are just playing the game. Much less who are at Act 6 or past, and are unhappy with not getting the 6* pulls they want. Again, I'm not saying their feedback isn't important. I'm just saying they don't make up the entire game.
Yeah unlike us the minority of players who come here expressing our concerns hoping that kabam will do something to make this game better, a lot prefer to stop playing.
Also the bulk of the players who are not at act6 yet will face the same problem when they reach act6 if nothing changes.
I agree with you on targeting specific champion maybe bad for the game. However if that were the case then they can solve it with one of these three solutions: 1-Optimzie RNG aka replace current crystal system with nexus,while it still RNG it LEETS the player feels more control over their account. 2-Don't design content that require X champ to pass (This game was used to be about collecting champ and have fun with the champ you want to play with) and now you have to brings "Gods" in your team just to clear content. 3-NEVER Release a new character for a year and try their best to improve all those existence meme tier champ to match with end game stuff.
Note:Make any change from above will be pro player move imo.
I have a fourth option, which I'm still tinkering with the details of. Or in a sense it is a combination of both #1 and #2, with a different perspective on #2. Determine which champs have the highest impact on the immediate progress of players at different progress levels, and offer progress-gated crystals to them that contain a high percentage of them, possibly as high as 100%, with purchase throttles to ensure that the crystal value can be primarily balanced around the acquisition rate of normally progressing players and not have to account for the purchasing power of super-high grinders or whales.
When I say targeting is bad, I am (or at least try to be) clear this refers to specific champion targeting. In other words, I want Doom, so I want a way to grind my way to Doom guaranteed. But the rationale for targeting specific individual champions being detrimental to the game don't apply to crystals that specifically target a wide range of situationally useful champs, all of which would benefit the progress of the player in some fashion. Maybe more or less, but some.
This would be a bit oversimplistic and hyperbolic, but it tries to communicate the right idea. If Kabam added a 5* crystal that only contained champions that were useful in Act 6, however we define useful (and I have a way in mind), and made them available for purchase to Cavalier players in limited quantities, that would be an example of broad targeting that isn't harmful to the game. Or rather, the benefits far outweigh the downside.
You guys have had almost all this feedback for months and months...this really shouldn't take this long. Were you paying zero attention to people's concerns before the backlash exploded?
This my concern. I am pretty sure none of the feedback in this thread was “new”. Everything in here had been given as feedback before. I guess the takeaway is that they were not listening before.
I normally don't agree with you @GroundedWisdom , but the last few points you have made, I do. I agree that the revenue brought in by the top % of players is nowhere near 80-90% of the total. It's a narrow-minded view of the company. That also leads into what you just stated about accommodating your customers. The forumbase that's active is a small subset of total gamers - spread across various demographics. From the company's perspective, I can't always be sure that this subset is an accurate reflection of my playerbase. Even in this thread, it was built around a lot of Act 6 concerns. I don't even know where the majority of players actually stand in relation to these players.
That said, I understand exactly what everyone else is saying, too. While you may not feel that content creators or the top players leaving won't create a void, it will. Think about it this way. Kabam has created content that, as you tend to consider it, the player grows into. This involves challenging conventional patterns/muscle memory and requires much more strategy. The same players that you were defending are the same players who NEED those people - at least the content creators. Seatin become who he was because ___ is too hard and he usually has a video on it. He tells you counters! You can watch gameplay. He makes it look simple. That encourages these players who otherwise would give up the game to keep playing. That also increases the chances that some of them keep spending.
You seem like an older gamer. I was born in the 80s, so to some I'm older and some I'm younger. I mention that you seem like an older gamer because I feel like you underrate what the content creators bring to Kabam. I grew up reading the gaming mags to find help for accomplishing game tasks (until gameFAQ became well developed) so that's the world I'm used to. But YT is a HUGE deal now, and matters. Even if you don't use YT for MCOC help, you likely have used it for help for something else in the past, so you should be able to understand how valuable that can be. If they leave, that will hurt the company, and I don't really think that's in doubt. Content creators for this video game serve as an unpaid marketing firm. That's huge and I'm not sure why you discount that aspect so much.
We need more choice instead of chance. I know everybody's always worried about "well you can't let everybody have a corvus glaive" well guess what, all the top players and end players already do. Stop dangling the carrot Kabam.
So you want to let people choose which characters they get? I'm all for limiting the champ pool, but not for directly choosing a champion.
Agreed. The smallest pool a crystal should be is ten champs, like incursion crystals. RNG is a pain, but it is necessary for the game I think.
The pool doesn't matter, just increase the odds to target a certain champion. The featured 5* crystal that has the 20% drop rate for a champion should return. They started tailoring content around certain champions and then removed our ability to target champions. We need that crystal now more than ever.
20% is far too high with as readily available 5* shards are now. That's the whole reason it got scrapped. 10% with a 10 champ pool is a bit more tolerable. It's still fairly high odds and more than double the featured 5* odds but leaving it at 20% basically guarantees anyone can get any champ at this point. That's just not healthy for the game and would basically make basic crystals pointless unless the new crystal was exorbitantly expensive
20% is definitely not too high and why does everyone parrot the whole targeting isnt "healthy" for the game. We had 20% crystals before and arguably that was the peak of the game in terms of it being enjoyable.
Being able to targeting *specific* champs is plenty bad for the game. That's why we don't have that crystal anymore. You had two, and only two choices. You could keep that crystal and keep 5* shards permanently scarce. Or you could make 5* shards more accessible and lose that crystal. And the moment kabam decided to make 5* shards more accessible, your choices went from two to one.
This isn't some arbitrary decision by Kabam either. A large part of the game, including a big chunk of what funds the game's existence, is chasing champions. If you can easily target one specific champion, that chase is over, and the game is also over. There's also the psychological laddering issue. If we're allowed to collect champions in the order we want, it is inevitable that every champion we target will be less valuable than the previous one, because we're always going to target champions in the order we think they are valuable. Even accounting for new champs being added to the game, that's a strong negative pressure. Games that involve collection pursuit all face similar constraints.
The reason why 20% was too high is also not arbitrary. When players could only buy one or two of those crystals per cycle, then that number represented the chance a player might get that champion. But when it became possible to buy literally *dozens* of those crystals per cycle, it was no longer a question of if, but just a question of how much shards it would take to all but guarantee getting the champ.
The problem isn't that there's a low chance to get the specific champ you want. You're not going to be able to do that regardless. The only problem that is solvable, and would improve RNG crystal acquisition, is reducing the downside. The floor of how useful the champions are can be raised, without explicitly allowing players to bypass random chance and just get the champ they want with high chance of success.
While the precise % may be too high at something like 20%, I’m curious who actually gets harmed by a structure similar to the old crystal. That’s an honest question—not trying to be combative.
It’s easy to find endgame accounts that nab the newest champ and immediately elevate them to R5 and high/max sig. Many of those accounts are playing with a full deck of R2/3 6* awakened and L100+, so I don’t see how even the current system does much to “slow” the rapid accumulation of a new champ for them.
Lower tier players have traditionally been able to buy new champ crystals, but I suspect a more targeted featured crystal wouldn’t significantly accelerate the influx of new champs for them either—and many are restricted from getting anything beyond 4*/5* based on their Summoner level. If they did land a great new champ, that also might be the event that fully engages them in the game, something I’ve seen happen many times among ally mates and friends. Getting lucky on one Blade featured long ago probably kept me playing in 2018.
For the upper tier but non-endgame player (where I would place myself), the 5* crystal is nigh irrelevant. I’m sitting on 130-ish 5*’s and, excluding the purchasable champs and special champs, I’m lacking 20-ish 5*’s. Of those, I may realistically want 2 or 3 and maybe 1/4 champ pulls are what I would consider “additive.” The thrill of the 5* champ chase is for all intents and purposes non-existent; 5* shards are just a proxy for sig stones for me.
I don’t include 6*’s at all, because I think they stand apart and have their own problems. But I’m curious to know how being able to more specifically target what a player wants and needs (especially as it relates to being able to target specific content they’d like to tackle) is a bad thing. The analogy I’d use is the carrot that’s dangled too long—eventually, the poor beast loses interest in carrots altogether and just quits running.
Again, honest questions. Not an attack.
Dr. Zola
Let's unpack this one at a time. First of all, let's look at the players who are whaling out on crystals to nab new champions as fast as possible. Adding a way to get them quickly with some kind of targeted crystal doesn't *slow* them down, it makes them less likely to spend. In other words, a targeted crystal undermines the game's monetization model by taking away the advantage that the whales are spending money to get. And that isn't champions - that's a misunderstanding of the model. Whales don't buy champs, not even the ones that *think* they are buying champs are buying champs. What they are buying is *time*. They get them before we get them. There's no champ the whales spend to get that I won't eventually get for free. The question is when. Any reduction in that time advantage reduces the incentive to spend, so that has to be very carefully considered; you have to balance the speed at which players can acquire specific champs normally with the incentive to bypass that delay by spending.
This also applies to lower tier spending, but here you also face a different problem. You say that a targeted crystal wouldn't accelerate the influx of those new champs. But that depends on how good the targeted crystal is. If the numbers are low enough that would be true, but then the crystal would also be worthless to such players. It is literally impossible to make a crystal that helps players acquire champions, but doesn't increase the influx of those champions in a noticeable way.
If you are chasing champs, how quickly you can chase them is relevant and thus the structure of the crystals that create that opportunity is relevant. If you aren't chasing champs, the crystals themselves are irrelevant and any improvement in their structure would be equally irrelevant.
So to answer the question, being able to specifically target specific champs in a meaningful way can be detrimental because for players that are spending money to get them this would reduce the advantage they are spending money to get, devaluing their spending. For players that are pursuing them more conventionally, either the crystal accelerates that, and above a certain threshold that acceleration is problematic for reasons I mentioned earlier, or it doesn't accelerate them noticeably and the crystal has no perceived benefit. The gap between those two does exist, but it is both narrow and difficult to quantify. And for players not pursuing champs, offering better ways to target champs is harmless, but also meaningless. They don't factor into the discussion at all.
For the whale class, that’s consistent with what I would hypothesize: namely, that it is an almost purely economic rationale of “increased chance equals decreased spend.” And I suppose it’s pretty much the same for anyone who fits the description of a “chaser.”
For the lower tiers, the more I think about it, I wonder if being unable to target champs in a meaningful way really matters. A new mid-tier champ can still produce at a high level for a lower account in a way it cannot for a veteran.
All of which confirms my belief that there’s really no way (other than for significantly increased cost) the team makes specific champ acquisition any easier.
Dr. Zola
EDIT: I just read your reply to DragonBlood above. If that operates along the lines of cruder things suggested like functionality specific crystals (power control, immunities, etc.) but determined by in-game quantitative metrics, then that’s maybe a reasonable approach. The issue that exists even for a lot of veteran players is the inability to pick up champs for niche content when at the mercy of pRNG. At least I might be fine knowing I’ve got a decent shot at a champ with X abilities months after its release (instead of potentially years later or not at all).
I normally don't agree with you @GroundedWisdom , but the last few points you have made, I do. I agree that the revenue brought in by the top % of players is nowhere near 80-90% of the total. It's a narrow-minded view of the company. That also leads into what you just stated about accommodating your customers. The forumbase that's active is a small subset of total gamers - spread across various demographics. From the company's perspective, I can't always be sure that this subset is an accurate reflection of my playerbase. Even in this thread, it was built around a lot of Act 6 concerns. I don't even know where the majority of players actually stand in relation to these players.
That said, I understand exactly what everyone else is saying, too. While you may not feel that content creators or the top players leaving won't create a void, it will. Think about it this way. Kabam has created content that, as you tend to consider it, the player grows into. This involves challenging conventional patterns/muscle memory and requires much more strategy. The same players that you were defending are the same players who NEED those people - at least the content creators. Seatin become who he was because ___ is too hard and he usually has a video on it. He tells you counters! You can watch gameplay. He makes it look simple. That encourages these players who otherwise would give up the game to keep playing. That also increases the chances that some of them keep spending.
You seem like an older gamer. I was born in the 80s, so to some I'm older and some I'm younger. I mention that you seem like an older gamer because I feel like you underrate what the content creators bring to Kabam. I grew up reading the gaming mags to find help for accomplishing game tasks (until gameFAQ became well developed) so that's the world I'm used to. But YT is a HUGE deal now, and matters. Even if you don't use YT for MCOC help, you likely have used it for help for something else in the past, so you should be able to understand how valuable that can be. If they leave, that will hurt the company, and I don't really think that's in doubt. Content creators for this video game serve as an unpaid marketing firm. That's huge and I'm not sure why you discount that aspect so much.
I didn't say it wouldn't affect things. I just said I don't agree that the game will die. Besides the issues brought up, there's also the point that people reach a stage where they get bored. They've done everything, they're bored with waiting on the few Champs they don't have, and progress is slowed. It's part-and-parcel with pretty much all gaming. Eventually you get to a stage where you're somewhat over it. As for content creators, there's a difference between those that make content, and those who are members of the CCP. Anyone can make content, really. You have to discern what the quality is. Some create genuinely helpful content, others create content to fire start. Everything should be taken with a grain of salt. Sure, promotion is big. It's just self-serving to play into the issues people have and rile them up. The only thing that does is make the creator look like the savior, and the company look apathetic. I'm not going to get into names, but it's clearly apparent who stirs the pot and who genuinely creates content out of the love of the game. I am an 80's baby, and have been around for some time, which means I can see the difference. I'm not so easily swayed or triggered. All-in-all, I do agree that it's not good to lose promotion or customers. I'm not that cut-and-dry about it. What I'm saying is people who are loyal to the game and not just to the creators, are better business in general. The game will survive if people are getting bored with it. I play because I love MCOC. Not because I blindly follow whatever Joe YouTuber says.
We need more choice instead of chance. I know everybody's always worried about "well you can't let everybody have a corvus glaive" well guess what, all the top players and end players already do. Stop dangling the carrot Kabam.
So you want to let people choose which characters they get? I'm all for limiting the champ pool, but not for directly choosing a champion.
Agreed. The smallest pool a crystal should be is ten champs, like incursion crystals. RNG is a pain, but it is necessary for the game I think.
The pool doesn't matter, just increase the odds to target a certain champion. The featured 5* crystal that has the 20% drop rate for a champion should return. They started tailoring content around certain champions and then removed our ability to target champions. We need that crystal now more than ever.
20% is far too high with as readily available 5* shards are now. That's the whole reason it got scrapped. 10% with a 10 champ pool is a bit more tolerable. It's still fairly high odds and more than double the featured 5* odds but leaving it at 20% basically guarantees anyone can get any champ at this point. That's just not healthy for the game and would basically make basic crystals pointless unless the new crystal was exorbitantly expensive
20% is definitely not too high and why does everyone parrot the whole targeting isnt "healthy" for the game. We had 20% crystals before and arguably that was the peak of the game in terms of it being enjoyable.
Being able to targeting *specific* champs is plenty bad for the game. That's why we don't have that crystal anymore. You had two, and only two choices. You could keep that crystal and keep 5* shards permanently scarce. Or you could make 5* shards more accessible and lose that crystal. And the moment kabam decided to make 5* shards more accessible, your choices went from two to one.
This isn't some arbitrary decision by Kabam either. A large part of the game, including a big chunk of what funds the game's existence, is chasing champions. If you can easily target one specific champion, that chase is over, and the game is also over. There's also the psychological laddering issue. If we're allowed to collect champions in the order we want, it is inevitable that every champion we target will be less valuable than the previous one, because we're always going to target champions in the order we think they are valuable. Even accounting for new champs being added to the game, that's a strong negative pressure. Games that involve collection pursuit all face similar constraints.
The reason why 20% was too high is also not arbitrary. When players could only buy one or two of those crystals per cycle, then that number represented the chance a player might get that champion. But when it became possible to buy literally *dozens* of those crystals per cycle, it was no longer a question of if, but just a question of how much shards it would take to all but guarantee getting the champ.
The problem isn't that there's a low chance to get the specific champ you want. You're not going to be able to do that regardless. The only problem that is solvable, and would improve RNG crystal acquisition, is reducing the downside. The floor of how useful the champions are can be raised, without explicitly allowing players to bypass random chance and just get the champ they want with high chance of success.
While the precise % may be too high at something like 20%, I’m curious who actually gets harmed by a structure similar to the old crystal. That’s an honest question—not trying to be combative.
It’s easy to find endgame accounts that nab the newest champ and immediately elevate them to R5 and high/max sig. Many of those accounts are playing with a full deck of R2/3 6* awakened and L100+, so I don’t see how even the current system does much to “slow” the rapid accumulation of a new champ for them.
Lower tier players have traditionally been able to buy new champ crystals, but I suspect a more targeted featured crystal wouldn’t significantly accelerate the influx of new champs for them either—and many are restricted from getting anything beyond 4*/5* based on their Summoner level. If they did land a great new champ, that also might be the event that fully engages them in the game, something I’ve seen happen many times among ally mates and friends. Getting lucky on one Blade featured long ago probably kept me playing in 2018.
For the upper tier but non-endgame player (where I would place myself), the 5* crystal is nigh irrelevant. I’m sitting on 130-ish 5*’s and, excluding the purchasable champs and special champs, I’m lacking 20-ish 5*’s. Of those, I may realistically want 2 or 3 and maybe 1/4 champ pulls are what I would consider “additive.” The thrill of the 5* champ chase is for all intents and purposes non-existent; 5* shards are just a proxy for sig stones for me.
I don’t include 6*’s at all, because I think they stand apart and have their own problems. But I’m curious to know how being able to more specifically target what a player wants and needs (especially as it relates to being able to target specific content they’d like to tackle) is a bad thing. The analogy I’d use is the carrot that’s dangled too long—eventually, the poor beast loses interest in carrots altogether and just quits running.
Again, honest questions. Not an attack.
Dr. Zola
Let's unpack this one at a time. First of all, let's look at the players who are whaling out on crystals to nab new champions as fast as possible. Adding a way to get them quickly with some kind of targeted crystal doesn't *slow* them down, it makes them less likely to spend. In other words, a targeted crystal undermines the game's monetization model by taking away the advantage that the whales are spending money to get. And that isn't champions - that's a misunderstanding of the model. Whales don't buy champs, not even the ones that *think* they are buying champs are buying champs. What they are buying is *time*. They get them before we get them. There's no champ the whales spend to get that I won't eventually get for free. The question is when. Any reduction in that time advantage reduces the incentive to spend, so that has to be very carefully considered; you have to balance the speed at which players can acquire specific champs normally with the incentive to bypass that delay by spending.
This also applies to lower tier spending, but here you also face a different problem. You say that a targeted crystal wouldn't accelerate the influx of those new champs. But that depends on how good the targeted crystal is. If the numbers are low enough that would be true, but then the crystal would also be worthless to such players. It is literally impossible to make a crystal that helps players acquire champions, but doesn't increase the influx of those champions in a noticeable way.
If you are chasing champs, how quickly you can chase them is relevant and thus the structure of the crystals that create that opportunity is relevant. If you aren't chasing champs, the crystals themselves are irrelevant and any improvement in their structure would be equally irrelevant.
So to answer the question, being able to specifically target specific champs in a meaningful way can be detrimental because for players that are spending money to get them this would reduce the advantage they are spending money to get, devaluing their spending. For players that are pursuing them more conventionally, either the crystal accelerates that, and above a certain threshold that acceleration is problematic for reasons I mentioned earlier, or it doesn't accelerate them noticeably and the crystal has no perceived benefit. The gap between those two does exist, but it is both narrow and difficult to quantify. And for players not pursuing champs, offering better ways to target champs is harmless, but also meaningless. They don't factor into the discussion at all.
I think you are missing an easy fix here. Don't release the targeted crystal (20% crystal) until at least 6 months or so has passed since the champ was initially released. The original release of these crystals had issues because they were released twice (once as soon as the new champ was released and then a re-run several months later before being added to the basic). If you build in a 6 month gap between spenders and those acquiring the new champ via the targeted crystal you don't have to worry about the problem you stated above. By the time the champ is available in the targeted crystal the whales/spenders are on to the next bigger/better/higher prestige champ (12+ new champs would have been released by then). It makes everyone else happy in that if they really want a specific champ all they have to do is wait and they will have a very good shot at it.
After seeing these post I really have to question the maturity of a majority of the people in here. Kabam plans years in advance and a majority are crying about wanting it yesterday, it’s ridiculous. The idea that they could scrap and rework plans that have taken months to years of work in such a short period of time is absurd.
As its been stated multiple times throughout the forums it’s a miracle that Kabams even changing a thing and in my opinion, given the nature of their planning, I doubt a majority will actually be content with those changes so we’ll see just how many of those will actually leave the game when everything’s said and done.
If Kabam actually comes through in such short time, all of those crying just have to hope that the implemented changes aren’t just scraped together and as a result truly break the game and if they do, then well all know who is to blame for such a rushed and shoddy job.
As for youtubers leaving, I know people have their favorites, but does anyone really think that those gaps are just going to be left unfilled and that no new youtubers will pop up. Any youtuber that leaves will just give more views to the ones that are new or have been overshadowed, which is something I’ve already started to see and appreciate.
After seeing these post I really have to question the maturity of a majority of the people in here. Kabam plans years in advance and a majority are crying about wanting it yesterday, it’s ridiculous. The idea that they could scrap and rework plans that have taken months to years of work in such a short period of time is absurd.
As its been stated multiple times throughout the forums it’s a miracle that Kabams even changing a thing and in my opinion, given the nature of their planning, I doubt a majority will actually be content with those changes so we’ll see just how many of those will actually leave the game when everything’s said and done.
If Kabam actually comes through in such short time, all of those crying just have to hope that the implemented changes aren’t just scraped together and as a result truly break the game and if they do, then well all know who is to blame for such a rushed and shoddy job.
As for youtubers leaving, I know people have their favorites, but does anyone really think that those gaps are just going to be left unfilled and that no new youtubers will pop up. Any youtuber that leaves will just give more views to the ones that are new or have been overshadowed, which is something I’ve already started to see and appreciate.
I not only question your maturity but your sincerity as well. There are things that Kabam can do right away that takes 0 planning that have been done before.
1) remove mastery costs 2) 30 min AQ timers 3) Remove map costs period (though I understand their need to make money)
Those are things that I listed off the top of my head that have been requested for years and can be done right away and would be a good start. So all of this years of planning that you're talking about is totally false. Also, we didn't make the early June deadline, they did and had to extend it.
How are they making money from Map costs that are using farmable Resources. Masteries may be possible. Timers have been gone over ad nauseum. It's designed at 1 hour for a reason.
How are they making money from Map costs that are using farmable Resources. Masteries may be possible. Timers have been gone over ad nauseum. It's designed at 1 hour for a reason.
They literally have a section that you can pay for tickets for cash. I know you know nothing about high level play or end game content but you should do your research before you speak on matters you don't understand.
After seeing these post I really have to question the maturity of a majority of the people in here. Kabam plans years in advance and a majority are crying about wanting it yesterday, it’s ridiculous. The idea that they could scrap and rework plans that have taken months to years of work in such a short period of time is absurd.
As its been stated multiple times throughout the forums it’s a miracle that Kabams even changing a thing and in my opinion, given the nature of their planning, I doubt a majority will actually be content with those changes so we’ll see just how many of those will actually leave the game when everything’s said and done.
If Kabam actually comes through in such short time, all of those crying just have to hope that the implemented changes aren’t just scraped together and as a result truly break the game and if they do, then well all know who is to blame for such a rushed and shoddy job.
As for youtubers leaving, I know people have their favorites, but does anyone really think that those gaps are just going to be left unfilled and that no new youtubers will pop up. Any youtuber that leaves will just give more views to the ones that are new or have been overshadowed, which is something I’ve already started to see and appreciate.
I not only question your maturity but your sincerity as well. There are things that Kabam can do right away that takes 0 planning that have been done before.
1) remove mastery costs 2) 30 min AQ timers 3) Remove map costs period (though I understand their need to make money)
Those are things that I listed off the top of my head that have been requested for years and can be done right away and would be a good start. So all of this years of planning that you're talking about is totally false. Also, we didn't make the early June deadline, they did and had to extend it.
You really think Kabam can just change those things without the risk of throwing the game completely out of balance. You might be right, I don’t know, but its short sighted to think so especially when Kabam has their own road map that has been set for years now. Whatever reason they have for those 3 things I’m willing to bet isn’t just arbitrary.
They clearly only made the deadline because of the constant nagging and that’s obvious now and seriously, really, only a weeks delay how will anyone live. You really think itd be reasonable if you just got dumped all that workload and had to make very precise and long lasting changes in such a short amount of time with so many different moving pieces and communication between different parts of the company on top of your regular workload. I personally think they should of just said June so I won’t defend them on that, that’s all their own fault.
How are they making money from Map costs that are using farmable Resources. Masteries may be possible. Timers have been gone over ad nauseum. It's designed at 1 hour for a reason.
They literally have a section that you can pay for tickets for cash. I know you know nothing about high level play or end game content but you should do your research before you speak on matters you don't understand.
Tell me, is the only way to acquire them for cash? Seems to me there's Gold, BCs, Loyalty, and Units. Perhaps I just don't understand.
I normally don't agree with you @GroundedWisdom , but the last few points you have made, I do. I agree that the revenue brought in by the top % of players is nowhere near 80-90% of the total. It's a narrow-minded view of the company. That also leads into what you just stated about accommodating your customers. The forumbase that's active is a small subset of total gamers - spread across various demographics. From the company's perspective, I can't always be sure that this subset is an accurate reflection of my playerbase. Even in this thread, it was built around a lot of Act 6 concerns. I don't even know where the majority of players actually stand in relation to these players.
That said, I understand exactly what everyone else is saying, too. While you may not feel that content creators or the top players leaving won't create a void, it will. Think about it this way. Kabam has created content that, as you tend to consider it, the player grows into. This involves challenging conventional patterns/muscle memory and requires much more strategy. The same players that you were defending are the same players who NEED those people - at least the content creators. Seatin become who he was because ___ is too hard and he usually has a video on it. He tells you counters! You can watch gameplay. He makes it look simple. That encourages these players who otherwise would give up the game to keep playing. That also increases the chances that some of them keep spending.
You seem like an older gamer. I was born in the 80s, so to some I'm older and some I'm younger. I mention that you seem like an older gamer because I feel like you underrate what the content creators bring to Kabam. I grew up reading the gaming mags to find help for accomplishing game tasks (until gameFAQ became well developed) so that's the world I'm used to. But YT is a HUGE deal now, and matters. Even if you don't use YT for MCOC help, you likely have used it for help for something else in the past, so you should be able to understand how valuable that can be. If they leave, that will hurt the company, and I don't really think that's in doubt. Content creators for this video game serve as an unpaid marketing firm. That's huge and I'm not sure why you discount that aspect so much.
I didn't say it wouldn't affect things. I just said I don't agree that the game will die. Besides the issues brought up, there's also the point that people reach a stage where they get bored. They've done everything, they're bored with waiting on the few Champs they don't have, and progress is slowed. It's part-and-parcel with pretty much all gaming. Eventually you get to a stage where you're somewhat over it. As for content creators, there's a difference between those that make content, and those who are members of the CCP. Anyone can make content, really. You have to discern what the quality is. Some create genuinely helpful content, others create content to fire start. Everything should be taken with a grain of salt. Sure, promotion is big. It's just self-serving to play into the issues people have and rile them up. The only thing that does is make the creator look like the savior, and the company look apathetic. I'm not going to get into names, but it's clearly apparent who stirs the pot and who genuinely creates content out of the love of the game. I am an 80's baby, and have been around for some time, which means I can see the difference. I'm not so easily swayed or triggered. All-in-all, I do agree that it's not good to lose promotion or customers. I'm not that cut-and-dry about it. What I'm saying is people who are loyal to the game and not just to the creators, are better business in general. The game will survive if people are getting bored with it. I play because I love MCOC. Not because I blindly follow whatever Joe YouTuber says.
I get it. I'm not a huge YT guy, either. And I don't base my opinions off anyone specifically, so I can see where you are coming from. That said, the key thing is that many players DO turn to YT in the same way someone from our generation may have turned to Game Informer, Nintendo Power, GamePro, PC Gamer, IGN, or GameFAQ for information on the game or tips on how to beat X boss or Y challenge mode.
It doesn't mean that everyone blindly follows this or that content creator and hangs on every single word. Are there some stans? Well, yeah of course. But the people that WILL leave are the people who can no longer get through X boss or Y challenge because the content creator community isn't there. There will always be people who can beat this challenge with their own strategy and skill. There will always be a bigger populace that needs help. The ones who need the help would feel the effects of those types leaving the game.That's not to mention the segment of people who watch them for cool tips on champs, crystal openings, tier lists, etc.
I think you're inferring that the game will go on as the playerbase evolves. These content creators leave, these others step up - that sort of thing. I don't disagree. But even in that, there's a segment of those players who will be turned off by those new content creators. Without a robust community, the game does choke off because it's too hard to figure it out on your own (for most people; some people are just awesome). The only way around that would be to lessen the difficulty so that average players can pass it with a small trial-and-error phase. But making it easier could cut into potential profits. I guess they could make it easier to acquire "god tier" champs, but the long of it is that would cut into potential profits. So, long term, imo, the game COULD choke off. Now it may not, but my point is it's not so cut and dry as you portray and that I think there's a lot of validity into that school of thought. At the least, it's why Kabam has taken this thread so seriously. They obviously think there's a link to all of it, or I think this thread would have been closed long ago.
After seeing these post I really have to question the maturity of a majority of the people in here. Kabam plans years in advance and a majority are crying about wanting it yesterday, it’s ridiculous. The idea that they could scrap and rework plans that have taken months to years of work in such a short period of time is absurd.
As its been stated multiple times throughout the forums it’s a miracle that Kabams even changing a thing and in my opinion, given the nature of their planning, I doubt a majority will actually be content with those changes so we’ll see just how many of those will actually leave the game when everything’s said and done.
If Kabam actually comes through in such short time, all of those crying just have to hope that the implemented changes aren’t just scraped together and as a result truly break the game and if they do, then well all know who is to blame for such a rushed and shoddy job.
As for youtubers leaving, I know people have their favorites, but does anyone really think that those gaps are just going to be left unfilled and that no new youtubers will pop up. Any youtuber that leaves will just give more views to the ones that are new or have been overshadowed, which is something I’ve already started to see and appreciate.
You're right they don't have to do anything, instead they can choose to further alienate a disenchanted customer base. The fact you are suggesting we shouldn't voice our opinions because Kabam has made plans is ridiculous, we've all invested a lot into the game and if a product is failing to deliver as a consumer of course we should say something about it. If you are happy then that's great I'm glad for you but there are a lot of people who aren't and its entirely right that they should express that.
After seeing these post I really have to question the maturity of a majority of the people in here. Kabam plans years in advance and a majority are crying about wanting it yesterday, it’s ridiculous. The idea that they could scrap and rework plans that have taken months to years of work in such a short period of time is absurd.
As its been stated multiple times throughout the forums it’s a miracle that Kabams even changing a thing and in my opinion, given the nature of their planning, I doubt a majority will actually be content with those changes so we’ll see just how many of those will actually leave the game when everything’s said and done.
If Kabam actually comes through in such short time, all of those crying just have to hope that the implemented changes aren’t just scraped together and as a result truly break the game and if they do, then well all know who is to blame for such a rushed and shoddy job.
As for youtubers leaving, I know people have their favorites, but does anyone really think that those gaps are just going to be left unfilled and that no new youtubers will pop up. Any youtuber that leaves will just give more views to the ones that are new or have been overshadowed, which is something I’ve already started to see and appreciate.
I not only question your maturity but your sincerity as well. There are things that Kabam can do right away that takes 0 planning that have been done before.
1) remove mastery costs 2) 30 min AQ timers 3) Remove map costs period (though I understand their need to make money)
Those are things that I listed off the top of my head that have been requested for years and can be done right away and would be a good start. So all of this years of planning that you're talking about is totally false. Also, we didn't make the early June deadline, they did and had to extend it.
You really think Kabam can just change those things without the risk of throwing the game completely out of balance. You might be right, I don’t know, but its short sighted to think so especially when Kabam has their own road map that has been set for years now. Whatever reason they have for those 3 things I’m willing to bet isn’t just arbitrary.
They clearly only made the deadline because of the constant nagging and that’s obvious now and seriously, really, only a weeks delay how will anyone live. You really think itd be reasonable if you just got dumped all that workload and had to make very precise and long lasting changes in such a short amount of time with so many different moving pieces and communication between different parts of the company on top of your regular workload. I personally think they should of just said June so I won’t defend them on that, that’s all their own fault.
Sounds like excuses to me. I didn't make the arbitrary deadline that I couldn't live up to. The game hit a breaking point so a lot is riding on the announcement. That pressure is self afflicted and I would agree with you if I wasn't on the forums on record saying remove the act 6 gates, the Champion boss is tuned way too high, and stop without holding 5 star sig stones.
I said all this on record in real time before we got to this point so excuse me for not having patience for an extra week. I'm speaking for people that have an issue. I have no problem personally waiting to hear the announcement before I make any spontaneous decisions but I can't control others feelings.
After seeing these post I really have to question the maturity of a majority of the people in here. Kabam plans years in advance and a majority are crying about wanting it yesterday, it’s ridiculous. The idea that they could scrap and rework plans that have taken months to years of work in such a short period of time is absurd.
As its been stated multiple times throughout the forums it’s a miracle that Kabams even changing a thing and in my opinion, given the nature of their planning, I doubt a majority will actually be content with those changes so we’ll see just how many of those will actually leave the game when everything’s said and done.
If Kabam actually comes through in such short time, all of those crying just have to hope that the implemented changes aren’t just scraped together and as a result truly break the game and if they do, then well all know who is to blame for such a rushed and shoddy job.
As for youtubers leaving, I know people have their favorites, but does anyone really think that those gaps are just going to be left unfilled and that no new youtubers will pop up. Any youtuber that leaves will just give more views to the ones that are new or have been overshadowed, which is something I’ve already started to see and appreciate.
You're right they don't have to do anything, instead they can choose to further alienate a disenchanted customer base. The fact you are suggesting we shouldn't voice our opinions because Kabam has made plans is ridiculous, we've all invested a lot into the game and if a product is failing to deliver as a consumer of course we should say something about it. If you are happy then that's great I'm glad for you but there are a lot of people who aren't and its entirely right that they should express that.
I never said no one should voice their opinions, but there a difference between being constructive and saying are we there yet, are we there yet, are we there yet. I’m just saying let them do their work, if they didn’t rease any new info by the end of June then sure riot.
Kabam Please stop making nodes only 3 champs can effectively counter. Stop making us choose between saving resources or making us spend resources and money to play our favorite champs. Not all champs need a rework, it’s the nodes that could be made different. Make map 7 more fun and versatile by making a plethora of champs viable options for us to play with. Don’t make us wait around for months trying to pull that one champ that will help us progress, let us play with who we want to play with
Literally the ONLY reason I'm stuck in act 6. I don't have the right champs and my only option is the combination of great champs plus a ton of revives or units. I opened five 5*s (Rocket, Dormamu, Bishop, Emma Frost & Hulk) and a 6* (Electro) this month. Add to my inability to complete V4 as I lack a 1* Hulk, it goes without saying I'm demoralized. I'll visit the game again in a couple of months.
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You do your best to make as many people happy as you can, but there's a difference between feedback and ultimatums. Walk into Walmart and tell them if they don't give you what you want, you'll bring them down. They'll offer you a smiley sticker on the way out the door.
If the majority was happy with the game, this thread wouldn't exist right now.
This also applies to lower tier spending, but here you also face a different problem. You say that a targeted crystal wouldn't accelerate the influx of those new champs. But that depends on how good the targeted crystal is. If the numbers are low enough that would be true, but then the crystal would also be worthless to such players. It is literally impossible to make a crystal that helps players acquire champions, but doesn't increase the influx of those champions in a noticeable way.
If you are chasing champs, how quickly you can chase them is relevant and thus the structure of the crystals that create that opportunity is relevant. If you aren't chasing champs, the crystals themselves are irrelevant and any improvement in their structure would be equally irrelevant.
So to answer the question, being able to specifically target specific champs in a meaningful way can be detrimental because for players that are spending money to get them this would reduce the advantage they are spending money to get, devaluing their spending. For players that are pursuing them more conventionally, either the crystal accelerates that, and above a certain threshold that acceleration is problematic for reasons I mentioned earlier, or it doesn't accelerate them noticeably and the crystal has no perceived benefit. The gap between those two does exist, but it is both narrow and difficult to quantify. And for players not pursuing champs, offering better ways to target champs is harmless, but also meaningless. They don't factor into the discussion at all.
Also the bulk of the players who are not at act6 yet will face the same problem when they reach act6 if nothing changes.
When I say targeting is bad, I am (or at least try to be) clear this refers to specific champion targeting. In other words, I want Doom, so I want a way to grind my way to Doom guaranteed. But the rationale for targeting specific individual champions being detrimental to the game don't apply to crystals that specifically target a wide range of situationally useful champs, all of which would benefit the progress of the player in some fashion. Maybe more or less, but some.
This would be a bit oversimplistic and hyperbolic, but it tries to communicate the right idea. If Kabam added a 5* crystal that only contained champions that were useful in Act 6, however we define useful (and I have a way in mind), and made them available for purchase to Cavalier players in limited quantities, that would be an example of broad targeting that isn't harmful to the game. Or rather, the benefits far outweigh the downside.
That said, I understand exactly what everyone else is saying, too. While you may not feel that content creators or the top players leaving won't create a void, it will. Think about it this way. Kabam has created content that, as you tend to consider it, the player grows into. This involves challenging conventional patterns/muscle memory and requires much more strategy. The same players that you were defending are the same players who NEED those people - at least the content creators. Seatin become who he was because ___ is too hard and he usually has a video on it. He tells you counters! You can watch gameplay. He makes it look simple. That encourages these players who otherwise would give up the game to keep playing. That also increases the chances that some of them keep spending.
You seem like an older gamer. I was born in the 80s, so to some I'm older and some I'm younger. I mention that you seem like an older gamer because I feel like you underrate what the content creators bring to Kabam. I grew up reading the gaming mags to find help for accomplishing game tasks (until gameFAQ became well developed) so that's the world I'm used to. But YT is a HUGE deal now, and matters. Even if you don't use YT for MCOC help, you likely have used it for help for something else in the past, so you should be able to understand how valuable that can be. If they leave, that will hurt the company, and I don't really think that's in doubt. Content creators for this video game serve as an unpaid marketing firm. That's huge and I'm not sure why you discount that aspect so much.
For the lower tiers, the more I think about it, I wonder if being unable to target champs in a meaningful way really matters. A new mid-tier champ can still produce at a high level for a lower account in a way it cannot for a veteran.
All of which confirms my belief that there’s really no way (other than for significantly increased cost) the team makes specific champ acquisition any easier.
Dr. Zola
EDIT: I just read your reply to DragonBlood above. If that operates along the lines of cruder things suggested like functionality specific crystals (power control, immunities, etc.) but determined by in-game quantitative metrics, then that’s maybe a reasonable approach. The issue that exists even for a lot of veteran players is the inability to pick up champs for niche content when at the mercy of pRNG. At least I might be fine knowing I’ve got a decent shot at a champ with X abilities months after its release (instead of potentially years later or not at all).
As for content creators, there's a difference between those that make content, and those who are members of the CCP. Anyone can make content, really. You have to discern what the quality is. Some create genuinely helpful content, others create content to fire start. Everything should be taken with a grain of salt. Sure, promotion is big. It's just self-serving to play into the issues people have and rile them up. The only thing that does is make the creator look like the savior, and the company look apathetic. I'm not going to get into names, but it's clearly apparent who stirs the pot and who genuinely creates content out of the love of the game. I am an 80's baby, and have been around for some time, which means I can see the difference. I'm not so easily swayed or triggered.
All-in-all, I do agree that it's not good to lose promotion or customers. I'm not that cut-and-dry about it. What I'm saying is people who are loyal to the game and not just to the creators, are better business in general. The game will survive if people are getting bored with it. I play because I love MCOC. Not because I blindly follow whatever Joe YouTuber says.
As its been stated multiple times throughout the forums it’s a miracle that Kabams even changing a thing and in my opinion, given the nature of their planning, I doubt a majority will actually be content with those changes so we’ll see just how many of those will actually leave the game when everything’s said and done.
If Kabam actually comes through in such short time, all of those crying just have to hope that the implemented changes aren’t just scraped together and as a result truly break the game and if they do, then well all know who is to blame for such a rushed and shoddy job.
As for youtubers leaving, I know people have their favorites, but does anyone really think that those gaps are just going to be left unfilled and that no new youtubers will pop up. Any youtuber that leaves will just give more views to the ones that are new or have been overshadowed, which is something I’ve already started to see and appreciate.
1) remove mastery costs
2) 30 min AQ timers
3) Remove map costs period (though I understand their need to make money)
Those are things that I listed off the top of my head that have been requested for years and can be done right away and would be a good start. So all of this years of planning that you're talking about is totally false. Also, we didn't make the early June deadline, they did and had to extend it.
Masteries may be possible.
Timers have been gone over ad nauseum. It's designed at 1 hour for a reason.
You know how you only get partial credit for handing in an assignment past the deadline? Well...our trust is dwindling in the same way.
The honesty is there though. Let's keep it up Kabam. I know you can deliver. Show us you can deliver.
They clearly only made the deadline because of the constant nagging and that’s obvious now and seriously, really, only a weeks delay how will anyone live. You really think itd be reasonable if you just got dumped all that workload and had to make very precise and long lasting changes in such a short amount of time with so many different moving pieces and communication between different parts of the company on top of your regular workload. I personally think they should of just said June so I won’t defend them on that, that’s all their own fault.
It doesn't mean that everyone blindly follows this or that content creator and hangs on every single word. Are there some stans? Well, yeah of course. But the people that WILL leave are the people who can no longer get through X boss or Y challenge because the content creator community isn't there. There will always be people who can beat this challenge with their own strategy and skill. There will always be a bigger populace that needs help. The ones who need the help would feel the effects of those types leaving the game.That's not to mention the segment of people who watch them for cool tips on champs, crystal openings, tier lists, etc.
I think you're inferring that the game will go on as the playerbase evolves. These content creators leave, these others step up - that sort of thing. I don't disagree. But even in that, there's a segment of those players who will be turned off by those new content creators. Without a robust community, the game does choke off because it's too hard to figure it out on your own (for most people; some people are just awesome). The only way around that would be to lessen the difficulty so that average players can pass it with a small trial-and-error phase. But making it easier could cut into potential profits. I guess they could make it easier to acquire "god tier" champs, but the long of it is that would cut into potential profits. So, long term, imo, the game COULD choke off. Now it may not, but my point is it's not so cut and dry as you portray and that I think there's a lot of validity into that school of thought. At the least, it's why Kabam has taken this thread so seriously. They obviously think there's a link to all of it, or I think this thread would have been closed long ago.
If you are happy then that's great I'm glad for you but there are a lot of people who aren't and its entirely right that they should express that.
I said all this on record in real time before we got to this point so excuse me for not having patience for an extra week. I'm speaking for people that have an issue. I have no problem personally waiting to hear the announcement before I make any spontaneous decisions but I can't control others feelings.