Variants aren't the same as Act 6. Variants are meant to be fun, but also End-Game. Story is meant to be challenging. Very challenging for the demographic it's directed at. That demographic isn't 60% of the Player Base with a range of Rosters between newly-Uncollected and finished everything.
What even is this Thread? Is it an ode to Seatin, or a mass vent?
Could it not be both? A major figure in the game's history is on the verge of leaving, bringing up some really good points about what's wrong with the game right now.
A major figure of the game's history? No offense to Seatin, but that's a bit fanboyish. He's not even in the CC anymore. He's had his good points and his bad just like anyone else.
I'm not trying to be fanboyish, I'm trying to be realistic. Regardless of what you feel about his content, he's the most subscribed MCOC YouTuber, any of the other MCOC content creators aren't even close in terms of subscribers (no offense to them, all of them are great). The closest is BG and there's still a gap of 150k people.
Almost all the new players come across him when they start MCOC, he's the first thing that shows up when you search up MCOC on YouTube. Like it or not, even without being a part of CCP, his opinion holds up big time, both for the community and for how the game progresses.
Now, is this technically a good thing? I don't know, but it is what it is.
No offensive, but why people praised him too much ? I understand how popular he is but people treat him like god, whenever he said something, you all said something. If he said that champ is god tier, it's god tier,he say something, you all like have the same idea.He complain, you all complain. This happen same as morning star and claire problem which is obviouslly a bug, some people follow seatin's opinion and call it a nerf.and this forum have 5+ posts about seatin's opinion at the time he upload his video.Why have to be Seatin lead your own opinion ? Why you all have to wait for him to make the world burn ? Why him making tier list got acknowledge and other youtuber don't ? Why you start post your complain A LOT when seatin said so ?
why not he taught us how to play this game and progress.
The goal of the game should be to try to make the players feel good about accomplishing something, not feel bad about failing something. And while those are two sides of the same coin, that doesn't mean you can't skew that coin in one direction. I posted several threads about that very idea in the past.
I didn’t put the whole comment in because well, yours and mine combined would probably be akin to War and Peace.
I agree with a lot of what you say - Seatin is very much in the minority in terms of what he spends, but it’s quite a large minority. I would say that there must well over 1000 players that are casually spending at least an Odin a week on Cavaliers, let alone on the units to get them through content. As these are the players who ultimately prop MCOC up as a free game, the monied completionists and the truly dedicated F2P players need something to look forward to on a regular basis, otherwise why play, and by extension, spend? —— For me the rewards aren’t the core issue - I play the game to play the game, rather than for rewards within the game, they are a byproduct of playing. Until you’re hooked on the game 10000 5* shards don’t mean a thing to you, so the gameplay is the key. At the moment, the story mode gameplay is shocking.
I had hoped that with the close of Act 6 and Book 1 we would see a shift in how gameplay was designed. I was looking forward to a lot more Grandmaster-esque fights against champions that we can’t use - just feels more satisfying beating a big bad boss rather than Modok.
Currently, Act 7 feels rushed, it may as well be 6.5. I’d consider myself pretty good at the game, not a masters level player, but pretty good. If I have to chuck in a team revive to get through a single line of a quest, not because I made a mistake but because of poor game design that’s not fun - and there’s a boat load of that in Act 6, it looks like there’s a full fleet waiting for me in Act 7. Should I have to grind a week of arena to complete one line in a quest? Nope.
Variants aren't the same as Act 6. Variants are meant to be fun, but also End-Game. Story is meant to be challenging. Very challenging for the demographic it's directed at. That demographic isn't 60% of the Player Base with a range of Rosters between newly-Uncollected and finished everything.
So story content isnt supposed to be fun? You just make zero sense.
Variants aren't the same as Act 6. Variants are meant to be fun, but also End-Game. Story is meant to be challenging. Very challenging for the demographic it's directed at. That demographic isn't 60% of the Player Base with a range of Rosters between newly-Uncollected and finished everything.
Your logic is flawed. It’s supposed to be skill based more than anything. Not nodes that work so perfectly together that you can’t win
Variants aren't the same as Act 6. Variants are meant to be fun, but also End-Game. Story is meant to be challenging. Very challenging for the demographic it's directed at. That demographic isn't 60% of the Player Base with a range of Rosters between newly-Uncollected and finished everything.
So because it’s supposed to be challenging, it can’t be fun? First off, you haven’t done Act 6 yet so your ideas already have inherently less value because you haven’t experienced what you’re talking about. You can talk reasoning behind it all you want, but that doesn’t change the fact that once you go in and try to explore 6.2.5, you will immediately realize that not only is it not fun, it is stupidly difficult. I’m in the Act 7 beta and I’m a fairly good player. I’ve done my initial Abyss run and explored 6.1-6.3 and was one of the first to do an initial run of 6.4 when it came out. I’m telling you right now, that Act 7 will be the death of the game if it comes out how it is now and if they don’t do a serious overhaul of it. Plenty of the top players and the whales will finish it in the first day, fully explore it, but many of the other endgame players who don’t have massive rosters—myself included because even though I have a large roster, I don’t have all the incredibly specific counters you need for Act 7–will do an initial run to get whatever title is associated and the it let it rot unexplored. The rest of the players probably won’t even bother or try and then stop quickly after. Story mode should be challenging, yes, but it should above all else be fun and doable with more than just 10-30 of the 170 champs in the game.
Variants aren't the same as Act 6. Variants are meant to be fun, but also End-Game. Story is meant to be challenging. Very challenging for the demographic it's directed at. That demographic isn't 60% of the Player Base with a range of Rosters between newly-Uncollected and finished everything.
Your logic is flawed. It’s supposed to be skill based more than anything. Not nodes that work so perfectly together that you can’t win
Variants aren't the same as Act 6. Variants are meant to be fun, but also End-Game. Story is meant to be challenging. Very challenging for the demographic it's directed at. That demographic isn't 60% of the Player Base with a range of Rosters between newly-Uncollected and finished everything.
So story content isnt supposed to be fun? You just make zero sense.
Fun as in challenging, yes. After a certain point, it's just supposed to be hard. My point with that was Variants are more emphasized on fun. Not the same content.
Variants aren't the same as Act 6. Variants are meant to be fun, but also End-Game. Story is meant to be challenging. Very challenging for the demographic it's directed at. That demographic isn't 60% of the Player Base with a range of Rosters between newly-Uncollected and finished everything.
So did you explore all the variants and at least complete act 6 to actually compare them, or...?
Buffing classic old champs, creating content more in line with what has been done with Variants, making Alliance content more competitive and rewarding... hear us out Kabam!
Variants aren't the same as Act 6. Variants are meant to be fun, but also End-Game. Story is meant to be challenging. Very challenging for the demographic it's directed at. That demographic isn't 60% of the Player Base with a range of Rosters between newly-Uncollected and finished everything.
So did you explore all the variants and at least complete act 6 to actually compare them, or...?
Haven't heard that rebuttal yet. Lol.
But its true, how can you speak fairly on the future content of the game without, at least, completing the current content of the game. The variants are fun and act 6 is too based on a few specific champs making 95% of the characters in this game useless. You wouldn't know that, because you havent done it, so honestly you have no reason to state an opinion on this matter.
I think a couple of us have seen Seatin's video and his view on efforts that are being put into AW, AQ, Act 6 are being wasted on the absolute trash the majority of us get from our so called "rewards".
Many people have been taking about it for a while, and we would all like to see the older champs be looked at and mage them more fun to play. I hope I can speak for others, that I would love to see the OG Spidey fit in Seatin's Beyond God Tier Category.
So asking anyone who would like to share their input, should Kabam continue to make more new champs, or take a break from that and focus on fixing their older ones?
Cause I'm pretty sure anyone who was teased about pulling a 6* Hulkbuster is laughing hard now.
Im not an endgame player but I am still in act 5 and it is fun to play. Judging all the fights i have seen people do in act 6 it doesn't look as fun. Kabam stop just trying to sugar coat things with rewards and make it fun. Making it super hard and making the fight long isnt really a way to make a fight fun.
Variants aren't the same as Act 6. Variants are meant to be fun, but also End-Game. Story is meant to be challenging. Very challenging for the demographic it's directed at. That demographic isn't 60% of the Player Base with a range of Rosters between newly-Uncollected and finished everything.
So did you explore all the variants and at least complete act 6 to actually compare them, or...?
Haven't heard that rebuttal yet. Lol.
But its true, how can you speak fairly on the future content of the game without, at least, completing the current content of the game. The variants are fun and act 6 is too based on a few specific champs making 95% of the characters in this game useless. You wouldn't know that, because you havent done it, so honestly you have no reason to state an opinion on this matter.
I'm talking about the design and aims of the content. I'm not talking about the experience of completing it. Yet time and time again, people keep using that same calling-out tactic in conversations and it has only one purpose. To make the topic personal. We're not here to call people out, decide who can and cannot participate in a discussion, or take shots at others. The end result of that is discussions go off. It's much easier to say we don't agree, or even state why we don't agree based on what's said, rather than resort to ignorant quips. It's not even within the context of what was said the majority of the time. So let me TL:DR it one more time. I ain't leaving.
Variants aren't the same as Act 6. Variants are meant to be fun, but also End-Game. Story is meant to be challenging. Very challenging for the demographic it's directed at. That demographic isn't 60% of the Player Base with a range of Rosters between newly-Uncollected and finished everything.
So story content isnt supposed to be fun? You just make zero sense.
I have been playing video games since there have been video games, all kinds.
So I have seen rage quits, content that couldn’t be completed because of broken code, stuff like that. Gates, micro transactions, all of it. I remember way back in the day when the legendary Final Fantasy VII had some broken code on the PC version that would absolutely stop you cold. Full stop.
I haven’t played every game, ever. Definitely not saying that. And certainly, the vast, vast majority of games I have played have always gotten harder, the further you went.
I will say this: MCoC is still fun in many ways. But I can honestly say that Act 6 is something I just don’t want to do because it just isn’t fun TO ME. Again, TO ME.
Again, I give credit to everyone who has finished it, explored it. Seriously. I do.
I might do 6.2 next weekend. I might. But the second I sit there and say, “This is ridiculous,” I mean, at some point, it’s a game. We all have different rosters and skills, but it’s just a game
Variants are end game content on release. Yes story content is a little different and should be but the design philosophies are going in very opposite directions.
And story content should be challenging when rolled out but shouldn’t take years for the average active players at level to complete following release. I consider myself a higher skilled player and will explore in next 2 months but for others Right now Act VI at the current place will take years and truth is some players I know may never be able to beat because of the difficulty and specifics of counter and skill required. It will take teams of r3 6* for these players to complete which is well over a year and a half away for these players at the current pace.
Also the question to be posed is if that is what it takes to clear the content then are the rewards you get really appropriate as at that time they won’t match the content.
Fundamentally the problem seems to be the difficulty and the way that difficulty is created also. There are other problems with the loop but it stems from reward comparative to difficulty and fun and achievement in completing.
Spending is not the only way to acquire Champs and Rank them. The most primary source of them is playing the game. Experience.
Spending is the only way to avoid the rut than many of us get into of months and months and months without a champ we want to do anything with. Spending is the only way to avoid potentially going years without the one counter that works for a particular fight. 6*s entered the contest in January of 2018. It took me over 2 years to get one that I wanted to rank. Spending is the only cure for that.
Variants aren't the same as Act 6. Variants are meant to be fun, but also End-Game. Story is meant to be challenging. Very challenging for the demographic it's directed at. That demographic isn't 60% of the Player Base with a range of Rosters between newly-Uncollected and finished everything.
So did you explore all the variants and at least complete act 6 to actually compare them, or...?
Haven't heard that rebuttal yet. Lol.
But its true, how can you speak fairly on the future content of the game without, at least, completing the current content of the game. The variants are fun and act 6 is too based on a few specific champs making 95% of the characters in this game useless. You wouldn't know that, because you havent done it, so honestly you have no reason to state an opinion on this matter.
I'm talking about the design and aims of the content. I'm not talking about the experience of completing it. Yet time and time again, people keep using that same calling-out tactic in conversations and it has only one purpose. To make the topic personal. We're not here to call people out, decide who can and cannot participate in a discussion, or take shots at others. The end result of that is discussions go off. It's much easier to say we don't agree, or even state why we don't agree based on what's said, rather than resort to ignorant quips. It's not even within the context of what was said the majority of the time. So let me TL:DR it one more time. I ain't leaving.
We also can do this all day.
Be my guest. That's the last I'm saying about my participation. Not going anywhere. Sorry people don't like that.
Variants aren't the same as Act 6. Variants are meant to be fun, but also End-Game. Story is meant to be challenging. Very challenging for the demographic it's directed at. That demographic isn't 60% of the Player Base with a range of Rosters between newly-Uncollected and finished everything.
Your logic is flawed. It’s supposed to be skill based more than anything. Not nodes that work so perfectly together that you can’t win
Variants aren't the same as Act 6. Variants are meant to be fun, but also End-Game. Story is meant to be challenging. Very challenging for the demographic it's directed at. That demographic isn't 60% of the Player Base with a range of Rosters between newly-Uncollected and finished everything.
So story content isnt supposed to be fun? You just make zero sense.
Fun as in challenging, yes. After a certain point, it's just supposed to be hard. My point with that was Variants are more emphasized on fun. Not the same content.
If a game, at any point ceases to be fun, then it has failed at that point. I enjoy a challenge as much as the next person, in gaming, on the pitch, the gym.
When something ceases to be fun and I have to do it it means it’s one of three things: - school (no longer applies, on account of being an adult - RIP my childhood). - work - I’m being paid to do this, not paying for the privilege - housework - I’m not a pig, I like good food and fresh sheets.
The excitement for crystal openings for me has gone way down. I need 2 specific characters to progress in this game without needing a ton of units. Surprise surprise, one of them happens to be Aegon. The chance of me pulling him in the basic gets lower and lower every month. Wish it was not so RNG based or the game allowed you to trade in 100k 5 star shards to get a specific champ because I would ABSOLUTELY do that for aegon.
Same. I dropped a ton of FTP units for him recently, which I don't often do. Got a few trash 5*s for my effort lol.
Spending is not the only way to acquire Champs and Rank them. The most primary source of them is playing the game. Experience.
Spending is the only way to avoid the rut than many of us get into of months and months and months without a champ we want to do anything with. Spending is the only way to avoid potentially going years without the one counter that works for a particular fight. 6*s entered the contest in January of 2018. It took me over 2 years to get one that I wanted to rank. Spending is the only cure for that.
One that you want, perhaps. Could also just be the result of good luck. We're also forgetting that new Champs are added each month, and other counters could be in the works down the road. Years depends on the availability of 6* Shards and that can be increased. Then as much as I don't want to trigger anyone, I have to point out that it's reasonable to have some content that can't be done right away, and the fact that people can start Accounts and go all the way to Uncollected in a matter of months indicates it's a bit too easy TBH.
Comments
I agree with a lot of what you say - Seatin is very much in the minority in terms of what he spends, but it’s quite a large minority. I would say that there must well over 1000 players that are casually spending at least an Odin a week on Cavaliers, let alone on the units to get them through content. As these are the players who ultimately prop MCOC up as a free game, the monied completionists and the truly dedicated F2P players need something to look forward to on a regular basis, otherwise why play, and by extension, spend?
——
For me the rewards aren’t the core issue - I play the game to play the game, rather than for rewards within the game, they are a byproduct of playing. Until you’re hooked on the game 10000 5* shards don’t mean a thing to you, so the gameplay is the key. At the moment, the story mode gameplay is shocking.
I had hoped that with the close of Act 6 and Book 1 we would see a shift in how gameplay was designed. I was looking forward to a lot more Grandmaster-esque fights against champions that we can’t use - just feels more satisfying beating a big bad boss rather than Modok.
Currently, Act 7 feels rushed, it may as well be 6.5. I’d consider myself pretty good at the game, not a masters level player, but pretty good. If I have to chuck in a team revive to get through a single line of a quest, not because I made a mistake but because of poor game design that’s not fun - and there’s a boat load of that in Act 6, it looks like there’s a full fleet waiting for me in Act 7. Should I have to grind a week of arena to complete one line in a quest? Nope.
Oh wait...nope, Spongebob still got sponge hands. He looks cool though.
I’m in the Act 7 beta and I’m a fairly good player. I’ve done my initial Abyss run and explored 6.1-6.3 and was one of the first to do an initial run of 6.4 when it came out. I’m telling you right now, that Act 7 will be the death of the game if it comes out how it is now and if they don’t do a serious overhaul of it. Plenty of the top players and the whales will finish it in the first day, fully explore it, but many of the other endgame players who don’t have massive rosters—myself included because even though I have a large roster, I don’t have all the incredibly specific counters you need for Act 7–will do an initial run to get whatever title is associated and the it let it rot unexplored. The rest of the players probably won’t even bother or try and then stop quickly after.
Story mode should be challenging, yes, but it should above all else be fun and doable with more than just 10-30 of the 170 champs in the game.
Buffing classic old champs, creating content more in line with what has been done with Variants, making Alliance content more competitive and rewarding... hear us out Kabam!
Many people have been taking about it for a while, and we would all like to see the older champs be looked at and mage them more fun to play. I hope I can speak for others, that I would love to see the OG Spidey fit in Seatin's Beyond God Tier Category.
So asking anyone who would like to share their input, should Kabam continue to make more new champs, or take a break from that and focus on fixing their older ones?
Cause I'm pretty sure anyone who was teased about pulling a 6* Hulkbuster is laughing hard now.
So let me TL:DR it one more time.
I ain't leaving.
So I have seen rage quits, content that couldn’t be completed because of broken code, stuff like that. Gates, micro transactions, all of it. I remember way back in the day when the legendary Final Fantasy VII had some broken code on the PC version that would absolutely stop you cold. Full stop.
I haven’t played every game, ever. Definitely not saying that. And certainly, the vast, vast majority of games I have played have always gotten harder, the further you went.
I will say this: MCoC is still fun in many ways. But I can honestly say that Act 6 is something I just don’t want to do because it just isn’t fun TO ME. Again, TO ME.
Again, I give credit to everyone who has finished it, explored it. Seriously. I do.
I might do 6.2 next weekend. I might. But the second I sit there and say, “This is ridiculous,” I mean, at some point, it’s a game. We all have different rosters and skills, but it’s just a game
And story content should be challenging when rolled out but shouldn’t take years for the average active players at level to complete following release. I consider myself a higher skilled player and will explore in next 2 months but for others Right now Act VI at the current place will take years and truth is some players I know may never be able to beat because of the difficulty and specifics of counter and skill required. It will take teams of r3 6* for these players to complete which is well over a year and a half away for these players at the current pace.
Also the question to be posed is if that is what it takes to clear the content then are the rewards you get really appropriate as at that time they won’t match the content.
Fundamentally the problem seems to be the difficulty and the way that difficulty is created also. There are other problems with the loop but it stems from reward comparative to difficulty and fun and achievement in completing.
When something ceases to be fun and I have to do it it means it’s one of three things:
- school (no longer applies, on account of being an adult - RIP my childhood).
- work - I’m being paid to do this, not paying for the privilege
- housework - I’m not a pig, I like good food and fresh sheets.