I’m the leader of a 4+yo alliance running 6x5, 5x5, 65555. Re the timing The timing of this it’s unbelievable, treasuries are already gone while it’s obvious such a change should have been communicated well in advance before implementing any in-game change.
Re the content I strongly encourage Kabam to rethink this and only implement the change once all the issues that are being raised can be addressed. This is strong deal breaker for lots of people regardless of the reason this is being implemented. You are putting at risk much of the current alliance spirit and mutuality, which in my opinion are a great asset for this game. Alliances running mixed maps will eventually breakup for this, causing unnecessary stress to officers and members as well.
On the side: arena cheating is a much bigger problem than resources loaders and people have been complaining about this for YEARS. Funny to see all this urge to fix an issue affecting Map7 and arena still being bot paradise.
I’m just gonna put my 2 cents in, literally no one asked for this.
Not true tons of people have been begging kabam to do something about the rampant cheating and fraud at the top of the AQ leader boards. Now that they have people have new complaints smh. You realize the use of mercs and treasury dumps were the only way a lot of those top alliances have been able to remain at the top of AQ week in week out.
I get where you're coming from, but when you donate to the Treasury, those resources become solely to open Alliance Quest Maps, and that's what Alliance Tickets.
It would be the same thing that happened if Map 5 became free without the new ticket system.
I honestly cannot shake the notion that the players got robbed here. Yes, players cannot recover the funds in the treasury once they are donated. I'm fine with that. But the funds in the treasury are theoretically spendable on maps, and that buying power has been erased. Any alliance that has built up a rainy day fund in excess of a week of donations just had it erased. Also, any alliance that stepped down from doing higher maps, like mine, don't have any recent donations. Our treasury just gets vaporized with no compensating return of tickets.
I don't even do maps that require tickets, and I still can't help but thinking that player buying power existed, and now it doesn't, and that's very problematic for me. No one player is owed anything specifically, but the alliance as a whole has lost something. I feel like because the alliance lost and not individual players Kabam sees this as a victimless crime. But if the players collectively had more purchasing power yesterday than today, then the players have lost something, just something difficult to quantify.
Don't get me wrong, I can see the impact this has on treasury dumping, and I'm all for that. And if my alliance has to lose its treasury with literally *nothing* in return (because we don't donate at the moment), then I can accept that as well. But if it makes me queasy, as probably the person with the most ice cold perspective on in-game resources, I'm thinking this is going to have quite the negative impact on many players.
@Kabam Miike Here's an idea...please please please make a store where tickets can be sold back for what they cost: BC, Loyalty, and Gold. Here's another idea...stop punishing millions of average players and alliances because the top 100 alliances can't manage to play fair. Also, you HAVE to figure out a way to make the cost to enter a shared thing...otherwise noone wil run 655 or 665 or 765 or any kind of mixed AQ again because there's no fair way to alleviate the burden of those having to pay when most don't.
I’m the leader of a 4+yo alliance running 6x5, 5x5, 65555. Re the timing The timing of this it’s unbelievable, treasuries are already gone while it’s obvious such a change should have been communicated well in advance before implementing any in-game change.
Re the content I strongly encourage Kabam to rethink this and only implement the change once all the issues that are being raised can be addressed. This is strong deal breaker for lots of people regardless of the reason this is being implemented. You are putting at risk much of the current alliance spirit and mutuality, which in my opinion are a great asset for this game. Alliances running mixed maps will eventually breakup for this, causing unnecessary stress to officers and members as well.
On the side: arena cheating is a much bigger problem than resources loaders and people have been complaining about this for YEARS. Funny to see all this urge to fix an issue affecting Map7 and arena still being bot paradise.
How do you think those resource loafers got their resources? Answer...arena bots duh. Can you say kill 2 birds with one stone
I’ll just keep posting this because it has to be a better solution.
Make every aq map free. If the main reason to not do that is a concern for developers making map 7 accessible to new accounts that isn’t really a deterrent imo. New accounts or players shouldn’t be able to complete map 7. If they choose to lock themselves into map 7 for that day and can’t complete that’s on them. Tbh it would probably be fun for newer players to at least get a little taste of high end aq so they can see how far they can get each week if they tried it out once in a while.
I agree with this post 100%. Just remove the AQ cost period. That way people can still stay with their friends and their won't be any breakups in alliances and collectively all 30 can negotiate what to run each week. People are now forced to either take a step up or a step back in what they play.
I get where you're coming from, but when you donate to the Treasury, those resources become solely to open Alliance Quest Maps, and that's what Alliance Tickets.
It would be the same thing that happened if Map 5 became free without the new ticket system.
I honestly cannot shake the notion that the players got robbed here. Yes, players cannot recover the funds in the treasury once they are donated. I'm fine with that. But the funds in the treasury are theoretically spendable on maps, and that buying power has been erased. Any alliance that has built up a rainy day fund in excess of a week of donations just had it erased. Also, any alliance that stepped down from doing higher maps, like mine, don't have any recent donations. Our treasury just gets vaporized with no compensating return of tickets.
I don't even do maps that require tickets, and I still can't help but thinking that player buying power existed, and now it doesn't, and that's very problematic for me. No one player is owed anything specifically, but the alliance as a whole has lost something. I feel like because the alliance lost and not individual players Kabam sees this as a victimless crime. But if the players collectively had more purchasing power yesterday than today, then the players have lost something, just something difficult to quantify.
Don't get me wrong, I can see the impact this has on treasury dumping, and I'm all for that. And if my alliance has to lose its treasury with literally *nothing* in return (because we don't donate at the moment), then I can accept that as well. But if it makes me queasy, as probably the person with the most ice cold perspective on in-game resources, I'm thinking this is going to have quite the negative impact on many players.
Are they giving Tickets to Alliance Members, or nothing at all? I haven't seen that answer.
We started taking donations last week so we could start running map 5 within 2 weeks. I feel like my members just got the shaft. We have not even run map 5 yet and now it’s free and they can’t get their resources back? We will never run map 6. It would’ve been nice to have more notice about this so that resources would not be wasted in a situation like this.
I get where you're coming from, but when you donate to the Treasury, those resources become solely to open Alliance Quest Maps, and that's what Alliance Tickets.
It would be the same thing that happened if Map 5 became free without the new ticket system.
I honestly cannot shake the notion that the players got robbed here. Yes, players cannot recover the funds in the treasury once they are donated. I'm fine with that. But the funds in the treasury are theoretically spendable on maps, and that buying power has been erased. Any alliance that has built up a rainy day fund in excess of a week of donations just had it erased. Also, any alliance that stepped down from doing higher maps, like mine, don't have any recent donations. Our treasury just gets vaporized with no compensating return of tickets.
I don't even do maps that require tickets, and I still can't help but thinking that player buying power existed, and now it doesn't, and that's very problematic for me. No one player is owed anything specifically, but the alliance as a whole has lost something. I feel like because the alliance lost and not individual players Kabam sees this as a victimless crime. But if the players collectively had more purchasing power yesterday than today, then the players have lost something, just something difficult to quantify.
Don't get me wrong, I can see the impact this has on treasury dumping, and I'm all for that. And if my alliance has to lose its treasury with literally *nothing* in return (because we don't donate at the moment), then I can accept that as well. But if it makes me queasy, as probably the person with the most ice cold perspective on in-game resources, I'm thinking this is going to have quite the negative impact on many players.
Are they giving Tickets to Alliance Members, or nothing at all? I haven't seen that answer.
The part of the announcement I'm going off of is:
Starting today, Alliances will no longer be able to donate to their Alliance Treasuries. On Wednesday, June 3rd, Summoners will receive an in-game message that contains a number of Alliance Quest tickets equivalent to their last 5 Months of Donations in excess of your regular Map costs, regardless of which Alliance you may have donated them to.
So as I understand it, treasuries are going away, period, and no one is getting anything back from those. But separately, the game is going to look at your own personal donations from the last five months and which maps you personally ran in the last five months, and subtract the costs of the later from the former. Whatever is left is going to be converted into tickets as if you bought them, and sent to you.
Although the phrase "regular Map costs" gives me pause. I'm wondering if they are going to datamine map costs throughout the donation period, or if they are just going to subtract the costs of running your current map from the datamined donations. Because if it is the latter, ho boy Ima going to stock up on popcorn for that day.
I’ll just keep posting this because it has to be a better solution.
Make every aq map free. If the main reason to not do that is a concern for developers making map 7 accessible to new accounts that isn’t really a deterrent imo. New accounts or players shouldn’t be able to complete map 7. If they choose to lock themselves into map 7 for that day and can’t complete that’s on them. Tbh it would probably be fun for newer players to at least get a little taste of high end aq so they can see how far they can get each week if they tried it out once in a while.
I agree with this post 100%. Just remove the AQ cost period. That way people can still stay with their friends and their won't be any breakups in alliances and collectively all 30 can negotiate what to run each week. People are now forced to either take a step up or a step back in what they play.
If you’re going to abandon your friends because of this then how good of a friend are you really?
So to be clear your game has an issue with cheaters who dump into treasury by using bots to grind arenas...and the best solution the brain trust at Kabam can come up with is to blow up alliances treasuries and shaft a boatload of the player base? It’s truly special to see a company as clearly out of touch with its player base and the overwhelming willingness to alienate them.
Why not solve the issue by either punishing alliances that use treasury dumping practices - if you can track my donations to treasuries for the last 5 months this seems like a pretty doable solution...or get rid of donations for all maps.
I highly hope this isn't part of what CCP members were hyping either... but seems like a fail.
The Game Team definitely know alliances are doing different maps and/or have a good rotation going on to place top 150/top 90 in AQ. Its seems to be all or nothing now. Hopefully they fix their horrible math though.
So as I understand it, treasuries are going away, period, and no one is getting anything back from those. But separately, the game is going to look at your own personal donations from the last five months and which maps you personally ran in the last five months, and subtract the costs of the later from the former. Whatever is left is going to be converted into tickets as if you bought them, and sent to you.
Although the phrase "regular Map costs" gives me pause. I'm wondering if they are going to datamine map costs throughout the donation period, or if they are just going to subtract the costs of running your current map from the datamined donations. Because if it is the latter, ho boy Ima going to stock up on popcorn for that day.
It sure reads as one of those scenarios. But even in the 1st scenario some people may still be unhappy with it. In the example of an alliance running 665 x5. The group that was running map 5 should have technically had lower map costs over those 5 months but they slightly overpaid due to the other two groups running map 6. This was considered fair at the time because 1. they shared in all the rewards 2. they ran an arguably easier map (a.i. notwithstanding).
The refund will theoretically now refund their overpayment in the form of tickets while those people who ran map 6 &7 and had to put in more time for coordinating and possibly used up more resources will not get anything back in terms of refund tickets since they technically paid less than their individual map cost.
Note that this only applies to mixed AQ and only in the first case where they go back and datamine the donation amounts and each AQ map you personally participated in. This seems like a lot of work though and I personally don't think they'll do it that way. It sounds more likely that they are just calculating the total cost of AQ based on what the alliance/alliances you were a part of ran each week, added together over the past 5 months and then compare that to what you individually donated over that time span. This helps those who overdonated in anticipation of future AQ or who simply felt generous with their contributions
I think its a great idea to allow maps to cost all gold or all battlechips or you can freely adjust the cost for yourself to get them... But for those running mixed maps its unfair...
Is there a way where alliances can buy tickets that are kept as an alliance total and then members can just use those to buy into maps... There must be a way to allow everyone to donate an equal amount for tickets into maps if they have different bgs running different maps... Otherwise a 665 alliance for example will have 20 map 6 players paying tons of donations and map 10 map 5 players paying nothing but benefitting from map 6 rewards for free.
I know the reason they've done this is to stop donation droppers, but at the same time its kind of screwed honest alliances from playing mixed maps
Well done kabam you have completely ruined the game. Now I need to buy tickets to enter a map which is going to take all my resources so that mean people struggling with resources no more ranking up champs. Well done you should just leave the treasury in the game.
Now if I have a gold problem I won't be able to exchange them with BC, with an alliance mate So I will have 3 options Option 1: buy the tickets using BC, and more loyalty. But I am not gonna do this, because the price for a ticket is rising for every ticket you buy
I’ll just keep posting this because it has to be a better solution.
Make every aq map free. If the main reason to not do that is a concern for developers making map 7 accessible to new accounts that isn’t really a deterrent imo. New accounts or players shouldn’t be able to complete map 7. If they choose to lock themselves into map 7 for that day and can’t complete that’s on them. Tbh it would probably be fun for newer players to at least get a little taste of high end aq so they can see how far they can get each week if they tried it out once in a while.
I agree with this post 100%. Just remove the AQ cost period. That way people can still stay with their friends and their won't be any breakups in alliances and collectively all 30 can negotiate what to run each week. People are now forced to either take a step up or a step back in what they play.
If you’re going to abandon your friends because of this then how good of a friend are you really?
Your friend runs map 5 and you run map 6, you can no longer share in the donations to make cost the same for everyone. Now your donations are going up and theirs are eliminated, its not a sustainable setup. You're not really given a choice in the matter now. Before you could choose to share the greater rewards of running the higher map with players running a lower map because the cost could be spread to everyone. Not really sure how this isn't obvious
Oh it’s obvious I just don’t think it would be deal for a strong tight knit alliance. People will either step up and run map 6, step down and run map 5 or those that want to run the higher map eat the cost. At any rate I view it as an alliance problem not a kabam problem. You have plenty of time to sort things out including 2 weeks of completely free AQ. Just my opinion because I like the change and welcome the upcoming free map 5
As a leader with not much else to do with my millions in gold I have always funded 50% of the gold for all of map 6 for the entire alliance. My gold donations were set at 150k for map 6 for over 1.5 years now and I always dump 20m to 50m in gold whenever I save it up. I was currently saving all gold crystals and premium, 3* and 4* hero crystals until the gold bonus week in December and was hoping to dump 100m into the treasury in one shot.
I did this so my alliance could focus their gold on rank ups. This news is very depressing. So what happens to the extra gold I donated prior to 5 months ago? I donated a ton of gold in December during that appreciation week.
Seems like by trying to fight the resource loaders we are all getting punished instead. Somehow Kabam algorithms can't figure out that people who join an alliance for 8 days, dump huge sums of resources into the treasury and leave were up to no good and ban them and remove the resources from the alliance? That seems a better solution than punish all of the people playing fair and by the rules.
Not posting how much in resources each ticket costs on the sliding scale is also not good practice. We cant look at this ahead of time and figure out the best system to aim for and let our alliance members know what to aim for. We should have all of this info in front of us right now.
I’m just gonna put my 2 cents in, literally no one asked for this.
Not true tons of people have been begging kabam to do something about the rampant cheating and fraud at the top of the AQ leader boards. Now that they have people have new complaints smh. You realize the use of mercs and treasury dumps were the only way a lot of those top alliances have been able to remain at the top of AQ week in week out.
As what FallDogBombsMoon said “Why not solve the issue by either punishing alliances that use treasury dumping practices - if you can track my donations to treasuries for the last 5 months this seems like a pretty doable solution...or get rid of donations for all maps”
As a leader with not much else to do with my millions in gold I have always funded 50% of the gold for all of map 6 for the entire alliance. My gold donations were set at 150k for map 6 for over 1.5 years now and I always dump 20m to 50m in gold whenever I save it up. I was currently saving all gold crystals and premium, 3* and 4* hero crystals until the gold bonus week in December and was hoping to dump 100m into the treasury in one shot.
I did this so my alliance could focus their gold on rank ups. This news is very depressing. So what happens to the extra gold I donated prior to 5 months ago? I donated a ton of gold in December during that appreciation week.
Seems like by trying to fight the resource loaders we are all getting punished instead. Somehow Kabam algorithms can't figure out that people who join an alliance for 8 days, dump huge sums of resources into the treasury and leave were up to no good and ban them and remove the resources from the alliance? That seems a better solution than punish all of the people playing fair and by the rules.
Not posting how much in resources each ticket costs on the sliding scale is also not good practice. We cant look at this ahead of time and figure out the best system to aim for and let our alliance members know what to aim for. We should have all of this info in front of us right now.
They did post how much each ticket costs on the sliding scale. There is a link to a spreadsheet in the announcement.
As a leader with not much else to do with my millions in gold I have always funded 50% of the gold for all of map 6 for the entire alliance. My gold donations were set at 150k for map 6 for over 1.5 years now and I always dump 20m to 50m in gold whenever I save it up. I was currently saving all gold crystals and premium, 3* and 4* hero crystals until the gold bonus week in December and was hoping to dump 100m into the treasury in one shot.
I did this so my alliance could focus their gold on rank ups. This news is very depressing. So what happens to the extra gold I donated prior to 5 months ago? I donated a ton of gold in December during that appreciation week.
Seems like by trying to fight the resource loaders we are all getting punished instead. Somehow Kabam algorithms can't figure out that people who join an alliance for 8 days, dump huge sums of resources into the treasury and leave were up to no good and ban them and remove the resources from the alliance? That seems a better solution than punish all of the people playing fair and by the rules.
Not posting how much in resources each ticket costs on the sliding scale is also not good practice. We cant look at this ahead of time and figure out the best system to aim for and let our alliance members know what to aim for. We should have all of this info in front of us right now.
They did post how much each ticket costs on the sliding scale. There is a link to a spreadsheet in the announcement.
I'll definitely look for that. Still not happy that I cant fund extra with my gold like I am now. Itd going to slow down the progression of my alliancemates for sure. I was only requiring 150k gold to run map 6x5.
Also, why would we only get tickets for the last 5 months of donations? Our treasury has way more value than that. How is that a fair resolution? We run map 5 now but have a huge surplus from when we did map 6......
Exactly.... Some of us paid in for years, and it's sitting collecting dust. I'd like my stuff back that's not getting used. We'll never use tickets so it's all gone to waste. Funny, because Ive been staring at our treasury as of late wondering if we'll. Ever have access to it, give it back to the people and such.
IANAL - but I do work in large corporate America, so I do want to make one comment from that background. For those calling this a money-grab, for a large company, doing their best effort to prevent fraud is an important part in protecting themselves and their customers. Kabam was getting the money either way, they're not going to be getting more money because of this, probably less in fact. But in doing what they can to prevent fraud, they're also protecting themselves from those who were the victims of that fraud, by doing the best they possibly can to prevent it. This is a good and reasonable move on their part.
That said, I still agree with a lot of the comments that there are details to fix, especially for mixed-map groups, and large donations prior to the 5 month cutoff.
First of all I don't really consider the erasing of the Alliance Treasury with no warning as being open and transparent. How does giving Map 5 players Alliance tickets repay them when map 5 is free now? We have no plans of doing any map 6 or 7 so basically our donations just disappeared and our compensation is irrelevant alliance tickets we don't need. Explain to me how that's fair or makes any sense? All map 5 donations over the last 5 months should be returned to each player. All the gold and loyalty. That's the only fair way to handle this surprising no warning news and changes
Comments
Re the timing
The timing of this it’s unbelievable, treasuries are already gone while it’s obvious such a change should have been communicated well in advance before implementing any in-game change.
Re the content
I strongly encourage Kabam to rethink this and only implement the change once all the issues that are being raised can be addressed.
This is strong deal breaker for lots of people regardless of the reason this is being implemented. You are putting at risk much of the current alliance spirit and mutuality, which in my opinion are a great asset for this game.
Alliances running mixed maps will eventually breakup for this, causing unnecessary stress to officers and members as well.
On the side: arena cheating is a much bigger problem than resources loaders and people have been complaining about this for YEARS. Funny to see all this urge to fix an issue affecting Map7 and arena still being bot paradise.
I don't even do maps that require tickets, and I still can't help but thinking that player buying power existed, and now it doesn't, and that's very problematic for me. No one player is owed anything specifically, but the alliance as a whole has lost something. I feel like because the alliance lost and not individual players Kabam sees this as a victimless crime. But if the players collectively had more purchasing power yesterday than today, then the players have lost something, just something difficult to quantify.
Don't get me wrong, I can see the impact this has on treasury dumping, and I'm all for that. And if my alliance has to lose its treasury with literally *nothing* in return (because we don't donate at the moment), then I can accept that as well. But if it makes me queasy, as probably the person with the most ice cold perspective on in-game resources, I'm thinking this is going to have quite the negative impact on many players.
Here's another idea...stop punishing millions of average players and alliances because the top 100 alliances can't manage to play fair.
Also, you HAVE to figure out a way to make the cost to enter a shared thing...otherwise noone wil run 655 or 665 or 765 or any kind of mixed AQ again because there's no fair way to alleviate the burden of those having to pay when most don't.
So as I understand it, treasuries are going away, period, and no one is getting anything back from those. But separately, the game is going to look at your own personal donations from the last five months and which maps you personally ran in the last five months, and subtract the costs of the later from the former. Whatever is left is going to be converted into tickets as if you bought them, and sent to you.
Although the phrase "regular Map costs" gives me pause. I'm wondering if they are going to datamine map costs throughout the donation period, or if they are just going to subtract the costs of running your current map from the datamined donations. Because if it is the latter, ho boy Ima going to stock up on popcorn for that day.
Why not solve the issue by either punishing alliances that use treasury dumping practices - if you can track my donations to treasuries for the last 5 months this seems like a pretty doable solution...or get rid of donations for all maps.
The Game Team definitely know alliances are doing different maps and/or have a good rotation going on to place top 150/top 90 in AQ. Its seems to be all or nothing now. Hopefully they fix their horrible math though.
1. they shared in all the rewards
2. they ran an arguably easier map (a.i. notwithstanding).
The refund will theoretically now refund their overpayment in the form of tickets while those people who ran map 6 &7 and had to put in more time for coordinating and possibly used up more resources will not get anything back in terms of refund tickets since they technically paid less than their individual map cost.
Note that this only applies to mixed AQ and only in the first case where they go back and datamine the donation amounts and each AQ map you personally participated in. This seems like a lot of work though and I personally don't think they'll do it that way. It sounds more likely that they are just calculating the total cost of AQ based on what the alliance/alliances you were a part of ran each week, added together over the past 5 months and then compare that to what you individually donated over that time span. This helps those who overdonated in anticipation of future AQ or who simply felt generous with their contributions
Is there a way where alliances can buy tickets that are kept as an alliance total and then members can just use those to buy into maps... There must be a way to allow everyone to donate an equal amount for tickets into maps if they have different bgs running different maps... Otherwise a 665 alliance for example will have 20 map 6 players paying tons of donations and map 10 map 5 players paying nothing but benefitting from map 6 rewards for free.
I know the reason they've done this is to stop donation droppers, but at the same time its kind of screwed honest alliances from playing mixed maps
Well done you should just leave the treasury in the game.
So I will have 3 options
Option 1: buy the tickets using BC, and more loyalty. But I am not gonna do this, because the price for a ticket is rising for every ticket you buy
Option 2: to buy with units
Option 3: to buy with money....
I did this so my alliance could focus their gold on rank ups. This news is very depressing. So what happens to the extra gold I donated prior to 5 months ago? I donated a ton of gold in December during that appreciation week.
Seems like by trying to fight the resource loaders we are all getting punished instead. Somehow Kabam algorithms can't figure out that people who join an alliance for 8 days, dump huge sums of resources into the treasury and leave were up to no good and ban them and remove the resources from the alliance? That seems a better solution than punish all of the people playing fair and by the rules.
Not posting how much in resources each ticket costs on the sliding scale is also not good practice. We cant look at this ahead of time and figure out the best system to aim for and let our alliance members know what to aim for. We should have all of this info in front of us right now.
That said, I still agree with a lot of the comments that there are details to fix, especially for mixed-map groups, and large donations prior to the 5 month cutoff.
We have no plans of doing any map 6 or 7 so basically our donations just disappeared and our compensation is irrelevant alliance tickets we don't need. Explain to me how that's fair or makes any sense?
All map 5 donations over the last 5 months should be returned to each player. All the gold and loyalty. That's the only fair way to handle this surprising no warning news and changes