Let's be honest. Seatin expressed what a number of people felt. The changes are not because of Seatin, or even remotely about him. He communicated things on a platform where many people assemble. I've made this point numerous times, and it's never been a dig on him or because of any personal feelings on him. People miss the fact that many voices are what is heard. Not one voice with many followers. If it was a matter of people just rallying because they care whether Seatin retires or not, I have every confidence that the team would appreciate that, but not necessarily enact change just for the sake of keeping him. Things are changing because the game team saw validity in the issues that many people brought up. It's not about him, or any one person. Anytime he has made a video that triggered people, change came because numbers rallied to the Forum, not from his power. I don't say this to downsize or invalidate him in any way. I just think people give way too much credit for the catalyst and not enough for the chemical reaction, so-to-speak.
Saying it was because of him is wrong. But so is saying Kabam would have done this anyway. The QOL changes? Sure. They would have trickled into the game overtime. Act 6 rework? I am not so sure. People complained a lot about act 6 earlier too and all we got was "git good". The reason people grouped together was if a person who has completed every content in the game and gets every new Champs as soon as they are released thinks this content is bad, Imagine a normal spender let alone FTP. So, saying he had no or very little impact gives too little credit to the catalyst and too much credit to the reaction. Even @DNA3000 went and analyzed act 6 after that reaction. Would he have done that if that video did not come? We don't know. But it was a reason. Seatin was not the reason kabam acted. But he was a reason. They took him back in CCP. That should tell you something. If they don't care about his opinion, there was no reason to add him after they removed him due to TOS violation.
Not once did I ever say "Git gud.", and I'm damn sure Kabam didn't. You missed the point of what I was saying entirely. This isn't about Seatin at all. He's one person. Would they have heard us had he said nothing? Absolutely, with the same reaction people had. I wasn't aware that they took him back. In any case, that's great. Still not about him. The game is compromised of many, many Players. They value their CCP partners. That doesn't mean they value any one person's feedback more than any others.
It wasn't geared towards you. And I don't think he missed your point. It seems like you were trying to echo DNA in that one person didn't cause all these changes to be made. I agree.
The point I believe he was trying to make was validating OP's point about Seatin - which I also agree with. He was the straw that broke the camel's back. It sent so many people running to the forums that it became too hard to ignore. People complain on the forum all the time. Sometimes it gets a little traction, but eventually it gets swept up. They couldn't contain this and had to deal with a lot of issues.
To pivot just slightly, I think this lends itself to another point. Certain people do often try to tell others that they aren't ready yet, or to git gud, or some other derivative of "just deal with it, bro". To me, THAT is the problem and the reason why Kabam doesn't always get correct feedback. There are too many people willing to tell others that the problem is THEM and not a core issue with the game. By the admission of the game team that they threw out the old roadmap, and plotted a BRAND NEW course should tell everyone that this game was not just okay. It's so freaking irritating to read the same handful of people constantly parroting that they had an easy time with something so perhaps you need to git gud. That isn't helpful to anyone, and that is incredibly self-serving. Perhaps if that didn't happen with such consistency this game wouldn't have went so far right as it did.
It's not going to stop those same handful of players from telling others to git gud, and it won't stop whiners complaining about every little thing. But I'd rather have all the complaints than none of them because a few that always say "move along, nothing to see here". Let me (the team) determine what feedback is needed not you (another customer)
In terms of the roadmap, I am incredibly excited for the future of the contest as it concerns most of us. I do wish that we didn't have a roadmap to a roadmap, but I can appreciate how hard they have been working on this. And honestly, the explanation provided by ThatJim on why it took so long really does illustrate how hard they have been working on getting this right. It won't be perfect, and I will still be frustrated at times, but I love the thought process. I look forward to getting some of these changes in game.
Can we please move the discussion away from wether or not Seatin was the one who caused this? Because that's seriously just undermining this who thing. Who cares if he did or did not have an effect on this. That doesn't matter. What matters is that change is happening and that it's happening soon. We will be seeing a lot of important changes in the future and that's what we are excited for.
Very hesitant on enthusiasm here. Many points are things that have been requested for years. Abyss reward nerf sets a disappointing tone for things to come.
My takeaway for now is that they're finally listening. I share your caution, but am willing to loan some good faith to them and wait to see specifics and timelines. Not sure how anyone could take the announcement as a net negative.
My concern is that they're just now listening, likely due to other reasons. Regardless I feel they have some work to do to rebuild trust with the player base. I'm hopeful but have low expectations.
A lot of this stuff has been in the works for a while now, but there are definitely things that changed based on player feedback. We're not just only listening now. We've always been listening, but haven't always had something to say.
Would love to hear if there is anything upcoming regarding mastery reworks, especially to the reset costs. Any crumbs or tidbits you can share?
I can't talk any specifics at this time, but I have passed the questions about Masteries on to the team.
Crystal Update – More control and brand new Crystals are coming to MCoC — wonder if these will be Nexus crystals. I’ll start hoarding shards again.
Good to see kabam adhering to the community’s wants, job well done
As soon as I read that they're adding in the four stars that haven't been added into the five star pool yet, I decided to start hoarding shards and sig stones. Five star sig200 Scarlet Witch, here I come.
@StevieManWonder another great reason to hoard, hopefully Shes not modified /balanced from how her 4* is upon Release .
Even @DNA3000 went and analyzed act 6 after that reaction. Would he have done that if that video did not come? We don't know.
Actually, the Book 2 beta testers that discussed Book 2 difficulty, and especially attack values, know that post was prompted by the discussions in the Book 2 beta that started before Seatin's video released. For the benefit of those that were not in the Book 2 beta, I was originally partially defending the difficulty of Book 2, because of the natural progression from Act 6. But the more I thought about that defense, the more I decided the problem was really Act 6: Act 6 practically demanded a ludicrously high difficulty for Book 2, and thus the problem wasn't just Book 2, it was really Act 6. So essentially as Seatin was uploading his video I was reversing course and posting an article in the Book 2 beta called "What I Think Is Wrong With Book 2 Difficulty (And How To Fix it)" where I laid the groundwork for what became the "Difficulty curve" post I posted in the open forums.
Focusing only on the issues with Book 2 difficulty, and by extension Act 6 difficulty, the beta testers were already there and all of that would have come out with or without Seatin's video. Seatin's video I think should get more credit for emphasizing the general sense of either frustration or malaise that many players have with different aspects of the game. But the Book 2 beta testers were I believe well on their way to getting Kabam to reevaluate Book 2 moving forward on their own, as the sentiment was overwhelmingly consistent and unified (not unanimous, but close), which actually doesn't happen often. And they had in turn convinced me to spend time looking at Act 6 in more detail, so they collectively deserve the credit for getting that ball rolling.
(If anyone outside the beta wants to read that post of mine, I've put it in a Google doc here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_XLMm0hv2ou_-Ig7FVesc-29TtGD9Wu7XE4uL3Owpck/edit?usp=sharing. Without the context of the discussions going on in the beta some of it might seem a bit disjointed, but I'm unwilling to share anything but my own post, and not even replies to it from anyone else. It simultaneously lays out the case that Book 2 difficulty needs to be revisited, what the problem with Act 6 is, and how to adjust progressional difficulty without watering the content down for top tier end game-caliber players. It is unpolished and a bit brainstormy and also incorporates an error of mine: I originally believed the devs intended to lower attack values much more than their original intent was, before they decided to go back to the drawing board.)
Even @DNA3000 went and analyzed act 6 after that reaction. Would he have done that if that video did not come? We don't know.
Actually, the Book 2 beta testers that discussed Book 2 difficulty, and especially attack values, know that post was prompted by the discussions in the Book 2 beta that started before Seatin's video released. For the benefit of those that were not in the Book 2 beta, I was originally partially defending the difficulty of Book 2, because of the natural progression from Act 6. But the more I thought about that defense, the more I decided the problem was really Act 6: Act 6 practically demanded a ludicrously high difficulty for Book 2, and thus the problem wasn't just Book 2, it was really Act 6. So essentially as Seatin was uploading his video I was reversing course and posting an article in the Book 2 beta called "What I Think Is Wrong With Book 2 Difficulty (And How To Fix it)" where I laid the groundwork for what became the "Difficulty curve" post I posted in the open forums.
Focusing only on the issues with Book 2 difficulty, and by extension Act 6 difficulty, the beta testers were already there and all of that would have come out with or without Seatin's video. Seatin's video I think should get more credit for emphasizing the general sense of either frustration or malaise that many players have with different aspects of the game. But the Book 2 beta testers were I believe well on their way to getting Kabam to reevaluate Book 2 moving forward on their own, as the sentiment was overwhelmingly consistent and unified (not unanimous, but close), which actually doesn't happen often. And they had in turn convinced me to spend time looking at Act 6 in more detail, so they collectively deserve the credit for getting that ball rolling.
(If anyone outside the beta wants to read that post of mine, I've put it in a Google doc here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_XLMm0hv2ou_-Ig7FVesc-29TtGD9Wu7XE4uL3Owpck/edit?usp=sharing. Without the context of the discussions going on in the beta some of it might seem a bit disjointed, but I'm unwilling to share anything but my own post, and not even replies to it from anyone else. It simultaneously lays out the case that Book 2 difficulty needs to be revisited, what the problem with Act 6 is, and how to adjust progressional difficulty without watering the content down for top tier end game-caliber players. It is unpolished and a bit brainstormy and also incorporates an error of mine: I originally believed the devs intended to lower attack values much more than their original intent was, before they decided to go back to the drawing board.)
The changes seem great, but we really need to know how much and when the attack values are changing. Any act 6 completion/exploration compensation plans would help the players decide if they should pause their exploration efforts or not
I didn't see loyalty mentioned. Anything planned for increasing amounts or introducing a 6* UC or even changing UC for a different champ? You've said in the past that there were no changes planned but I think now might be a good time to shake things up a little
I am pretty excited about the coming changes. Like others have said, I don't want to get my hopes up too much before we see the changes in the game, but I think they knocked it out of the park with this announcement. Fingers crossed lol.
I didn't see loyalty mentioned. Anything planned for increasing amounts or introducing a 6* UC or even changing UC for a different champ? You've said in the past that there were no changes planned but I think now might be a good time to shake things up a little
What would be interesting is if all trophy champs like kang and thanos and weapon x are added to loyalty store after a certain amount of time has passed after theyve been in game.
I didn't see loyalty mentioned. Anything planned for increasing amounts or introducing a 6* UC or even changing UC for a different champ? You've said in the past that there were no changes planned but I think now might be a good time to shake things up a little
What would be interesting is if all trophy champs like kang and thanos and weapon x are added to loyalty store after a certain amount of time has passed after theyve been in game.
Maybe if they increased loyalty from help. Otherwise if UC is 800K, the others would probably be in the millions and no one would ever get them before the game shut down.
I didn't see loyalty mentioned. Anything planned for increasing amounts or introducing a 6* UC or even changing UC for a different champ? You've said in the past that there were no changes planned but I think now might be a good time to shake things up a little
What would be interesting is if all trophy champs like kang and thanos and weapon x are added to loyalty store after a certain amount of time has passed after theyve been in game.
Issue with that is, that means they need to keep making new trophy champs, and the ones already released lose value. I would love a Weapon X - but honestly don't see them adding trophy champs for free.
Plus, imagine you spent thousands for Kang because he's a trophy and only champ you need, then 2 years later you can essentially get him for free
Wouldn't be free tho. Loyalty is hard to come by. Takes along time to save up 800k or 1.6mil alone for 5* UC. Imagine if kang or thanos was added. And the price was higher. And why not make more new trophy champs? Essentially the spender get them for a while then the masses can but high investment costs of loyalty.
Also can Variant 1 get a rework as well? It’s the worst content after 6.2
I don't think it needs a rework. It's too long but it is what it is. I've been chipping away at 100% lately and it isn't nearly as hard for me now as it was then.
It would also help, if they reduce the energy costs for variant 1 and act 6, because there are just to many paths (act 6 & variant 1) and chapters (variant 1)
@Kabam Miike for me most important is a change to actual RNG crystals. But if you will update 2 champs every month will mitigate the disappointment. About Magneto buff. Will be release the 29th of June or will you announce the date this day?
We'll be announcing it on the 29th! We want to move quickly, but moving THAT quickly is impossible.
Will there be betas for these buffs, or they just gonna roll out ASAP?
I haven't read much from this thread and I'm just about to. But in relation to the Help All feature, is there a Request All feature as well?
Like when all your 5/6* champs refresh their help request and you normally tap each one to request for assistance, you can just tap Request All to place them all under your help requests. It'll be quite helpful, especially for those with lots of 5/6* champs.
I haven't read much from this thread and I'm just about to. But in relation to the Help All feature, is there a Request All feature as well?
Like when all your 5/6* champs refresh their help request and you normally tap each one to request for assistance, you can just tap Request All to place them all under your help requests. It'll be quite helpful, especially for those with lots of 5/6* champs.
That would be a great addition, I'm not sure if its because my alliance haven't responded but sometimes I'm having to click request help multiple times for the same champ on the same round, it can get pretty frustrating.
I haven't read much from this thread and I'm just about to. But in relation to the Help All feature, is there a Request All feature as well?
Like when all your 5/6* champs refresh their help request and you normally tap each one to request for assistance, you can just tap Request All to place them all under your help requests. It'll be quite helpful, especially for those with lots of 5/6* champs.
@Kabam Miike@Kabam Zibiit can we get a response to this? This is a significant QOL improvement at least for arena regulars like me.
Love what I see so far. I hope mastery switches for different modes aren't far away either.
I'm curious what other arena improvements there will be. The fact it is universally referred to as a "grind" speaks volumes as to the tedium of the mode.
If you truly want to make it less of a grind... make it like a solo-incursion, and if you take down N rooms, you get the champ, and the path to get there is actually a bit more fun and interactive, and not a "grind", and as you complete rooms along the way, you get rewards similar to the existing milestones.
Comments
The point I believe he was trying to make was validating OP's point about Seatin - which I also agree with. He was the straw that broke the camel's back. It sent so many people running to the forums that it became too hard to ignore. People complain on the forum all the time. Sometimes it gets a little traction, but eventually it gets swept up. They couldn't contain this and had to deal with a lot of issues.
To pivot just slightly, I think this lends itself to another point. Certain people do often try to tell others that they aren't ready yet, or to git gud, or some other derivative of "just deal with it, bro". To me, THAT is the problem and the reason why Kabam doesn't always get correct feedback. There are too many people willing to tell others that the problem is THEM and not a core issue with the game. By the admission of the game team that they threw out the old roadmap, and plotted a BRAND NEW course should tell everyone that this game was not just okay. It's so freaking irritating to read the same handful of people constantly parroting that they had an easy time with something so perhaps you need to git gud. That isn't helpful to anyone, and that is incredibly self-serving. Perhaps if that didn't happen with such consistency this game wouldn't have went so far right as it did.
It's not going to stop those same handful of players from telling others to git gud, and it won't stop whiners complaining about every little thing. But I'd rather have all the complaints than none of them because a few that always say "move along, nothing to see here". Let me (the team) determine what feedback is needed not you (another customer)
In terms of the roadmap, I am incredibly excited for the future of the contest as it concerns most of us. I do wish that we didn't have a roadmap to a roadmap, but I can appreciate how hard they have been working on this. And honestly, the explanation provided by ThatJim on why it took so long really does illustrate how hard they have been working on getting this right. It won't be perfect, and I will still be frustrated at times, but I love the thought process. I look forward to getting some of these changes in game.
Focusing only on the issues with Book 2 difficulty, and by extension Act 6 difficulty, the beta testers were already there and all of that would have come out with or without Seatin's video. Seatin's video I think should get more credit for emphasizing the general sense of either frustration or malaise that many players have with different aspects of the game. But the Book 2 beta testers were I believe well on their way to getting Kabam to reevaluate Book 2 moving forward on their own, as the sentiment was overwhelmingly consistent and unified (not unanimous, but close), which actually doesn't happen often. And they had in turn convinced me to spend time looking at Act 6 in more detail, so they collectively deserve the credit for getting that ball rolling.
(If anyone outside the beta wants to read that post of mine, I've put it in a Google doc here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_XLMm0hv2ou_-Ig7FVesc-29TtGD9Wu7XE4uL3Owpck/edit?usp=sharing. Without the context of the discussions going on in the beta some of it might seem a bit disjointed, but I'm unwilling to share anything but my own post, and not even replies to it from anyone else. It simultaneously lays out the case that Book 2 difficulty needs to be revisited, what the problem with Act 6 is, and how to adjust progressional difficulty without watering the content down for top tier end game-caliber players. It is unpolished and a bit brainstormy and also incorporates an error of mine: I originally believed the devs intended to lower attack values much more than their original intent was, before they decided to go back to the drawing board.)
You've said in the past that there were no changes planned but I think now might be a good time to shake things up a little
Like when all your 5/6* champs refresh their help request and you normally tap each one to request for assistance, you can just tap Request All to place them all under your help requests. It'll be quite helpful, especially for those with lots of 5/6* champs.
Dr. Zola
I'm curious what other arena improvements there will be. The fact it is universally referred to as a "grind" speaks volumes as to the tedium of the mode.
If you truly want to make it less of a grind... make it like a solo-incursion, and if you take down N rooms, you get the champ, and the path to get there is actually a bit more fun and interactive, and not a "grind", and as you complete rooms along the way, you get rewards similar to the existing milestones.
going back and looking at what i pushed through and others have pushed through needs a reward ... the attack values are INSANE throughout Act 6.
what were they thinking really ... so yeah i'm excited about this possible change to attack values specifically.