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Devil of Hell's Kitchen Overhaul: Thoughts?

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Comments

  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★
    Rookiie said:

    Rookiie said:

    What do you think about Righteous Wrath dealing Direct Damage off DD Flix’s Special Attacks
    @FluffyPigMonster @Hieitaku ?
    Would it be too much? He would remind me of Hercules in this case. Except Hercules doesn’t inflict bleed so it might be too much.
    What if it was 120% for basic attacks and 60% for special attacks?

    That doesn’t bother me at all. With Peni - the SP3 doesn’t even matter. The damage is good.

    It all goes back to the regen. If I’m going to spam specials with suicides, I can at least have a champ that doesn’t get punished unnecessarily for having them on.

    Fair.
    And the of SP1. The precision should be paused or should proc on the last hit, with an increase duration as mentioned above.
    There is no point having the duration be 14 seconds, when half of it is lost to a low-hitting SP1.
    You just lose time to get to the SP2.
    Kabam do something!
    The SP1 is almost useless. You’re correct.

    Other than getting the hit count up past 15?
  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 3,887 ★★★★★

    Rookiie said:

    Rookiie said:

    What do you think about Righteous Wrath dealing Direct Damage off DD Flix’s Special Attacks
    @FluffyPigMonster @Hieitaku ?
    Would it be too much? He would remind me of Hercules in this case. Except Hercules doesn’t inflict bleed so it might be too much.
    What if it was 120% for basic attacks and 60% for special attacks?

    That doesn’t bother me at all. With Peni - the SP3 doesn’t even matter. The damage is good.

    It all goes back to the regen. If I’m going to spam specials with suicides, I can at least have a champ that doesn’t get punished unnecessarily for having them on.

    Fair.
    And the of SP1. The precision should be paused or should proc on the last hit, with an increase duration as mentioned above.
    There is no point having the duration be 14 seconds, when half of it is lost to a low-hitting SP1.
    You just lose time to get to the SP2.
    Kabam do something!
    The SP1 is almost useless. You’re correct.

    Other than getting the hit count up past 15?

    Well, we’ve done what we could. I suppose now we just have to wait for a response from Kabam.
  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 3,887 ★★★★★

    Rookiie said:

    Rookiie said:

    Rookiie said:

    What do you think about Righteous Wrath dealing Direct Damage off DD Flix’s Special Attacks
    @FluffyPigMonster @Hieitaku ?
    Would it be too much? He would remind me of Hercules in this case. Except Hercules doesn’t inflict bleed so it might be too much.
    What if it was 120% for basic attacks and 60% for special attacks?

    That doesn’t bother me at all. With Peni - the SP3 doesn’t even matter. The damage is good.

    It all goes back to the regen. If I’m going to spam specials with suicides, I can at least have a champ that doesn’t get punished unnecessarily for having them on.

    Fair.
    And the of SP1. The precision should be paused or should proc on the last hit, with an increase duration as mentioned above.
    There is no point having the duration be 14 seconds, when half of it is lost to a low-hitting SP1.
    You just lose time to get to the SP2.
    Kabam do something!
    The SP1 is almost useless. You’re correct.

    Other than getting the hit count up past 15?

    Well, we’ve done what we could. I suppose now we just have to wait for a response from Kabam.
    We’ve been asking for months. A reasonable discussion is not out of the question.

    Not at all. They should set something up with Kabam John to discuss his kit.
    The kit is there but there are some missing pieces To bring it all together. Mainly:
    1) Proper Regen
    2) Value from the SP1 (precision duration and value)
    3) Value from the heavy (cruelty duration)
    That’s all I want to discuss.
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★
    Rookiie said:

    Rookiie said:

    Rookiie said:

    Rookiie said:

    What do you think about Righteous Wrath dealing Direct Damage off DD Flix’s Special Attacks
    @FluffyPigMonster @Hieitaku ?
    Would it be too much? He would remind me of Hercules in this case. Except Hercules doesn’t inflict bleed so it might be too much.
    What if it was 120% for basic attacks and 60% for special attacks?

    That doesn’t bother me at all. With Peni - the SP3 doesn’t even matter. The damage is good.

    It all goes back to the regen. If I’m going to spam specials with suicides, I can at least have a champ that doesn’t get punished unnecessarily for having them on.

    Fair.
    And the of SP1. The precision should be paused or should proc on the last hit, with an increase duration as mentioned above.
    There is no point having the duration be 14 seconds, when half of it is lost to a low-hitting SP1.
    You just lose time to get to the SP2.
    Kabam do something!
    The SP1 is almost useless. You’re correct.

    Other than getting the hit count up past 15?

    Well, we’ve done what we could. I suppose now we just have to wait for a response from Kabam.
    We’ve been asking for months. A reasonable discussion is not out of the question.

    Not at all. They should set something up with Kabam John to discuss his kit.
    The kit is there but there are some missing pieces To bring it all together. Mainly:
    1) Proper Regen
    2) Value from the SP1 (precision duration and value)
    3) Value from the heavy (cruelty duration)
    That’s all I want to discuss.
    I’m all for that. How do we set that up?
  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 3,887 ★★★★★

    Rookiie said:

    Rookiie said:

    Rookiie said:

    Rookiie said:

    What do you think about Righteous Wrath dealing Direct Damage off DD Flix’s Special Attacks
    @FluffyPigMonster @Hieitaku ?
    Would it be too much? He would remind me of Hercules in this case. Except Hercules doesn’t inflict bleed so it might be too much.
    What if it was 120% for basic attacks and 60% for special attacks?

    That doesn’t bother me at all. With Peni - the SP3 doesn’t even matter. The damage is good.

    It all goes back to the regen. If I’m going to spam specials with suicides, I can at least have a champ that doesn’t get punished unnecessarily for having them on.

    Fair.
    And the of SP1. The precision should be paused or should proc on the last hit, with an increase duration as mentioned above.
    There is no point having the duration be 14 seconds, when half of it is lost to a low-hitting SP1.
    You just lose time to get to the SP2.
    Kabam do something!
    The SP1 is almost useless. You’re correct.

    Other than getting the hit count up past 15?

    Well, we’ve done what we could. I suppose now we just have to wait for a response from Kabam.
    We’ve been asking for months. A reasonable discussion is not out of the question.

    Not at all. They should set something up with Kabam John to discuss his kit.
    The kit is there but there are some missing pieces To bring it all together. Mainly:
    1) Proper Regen
    2) Value from the SP1 (precision duration and value)
    3) Value from the heavy (cruelty duration)
    That’s all I want to discuss.
    I’m all for that. How do we set that up?

    I think it’s in @Kabam Miike ‘s hands. If he wants to take this up with the team then he can make it happen. Otherwise I don’t think we have much hope.
  • Hrishikesh713Hrishikesh713 Posts: 591 ★★★
    @Kabam Miike you guys just need to tweak few things and he will be awesome
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★
    Rookiie said:

    J0eySn0w said:

    @Rookiie @FluffyPigMonster You guys have some faith, and I respect it cos the champ could really use some of these tweaks but I'm not hopeful. DOn't get me wrong would be glad if they do but considering what they did to Guillotine and how they pretty much still wanna stick to their decision I doubt they will revisit DDHK. It's unlike the Kabam I know.

    To be fair, when we asked for changes to Odin and iHulk we got them both, exactly as we wanted them.

    iHulk > pause Rage during specials
    Odin > remove penalizing effects of no Odinsleep

    Now I know that some things didn’t go our way with some champs like Nova and Guillotine, but the least we can do is try. Try and hope for the best.

    Also, thanks for your good words mate.
    That was a good time. We really banded together.

    I know it’s Sunday, so we have to keep this discussion open and expose what’s wrong with him and keep presenting solutions (which are all reasonable).

    Let’s do it again @Rookiie !
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 7,930 ★★★★★

    J0eySn0w said:

    @Rookiie @FluffyPigMonster You guys have some faith, and I respect it cos the champ could really use some of these tweaks but I'm not hopeful. DOn't get me wrong would be glad if they do but considering what they did to Guillotine and how they pretty much still wanna stick to their decision I doubt they will revisit DDHK. It's unlike the Kabam I know.

    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky”
    - Michael Scott
    FTFY
  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 3,887 ★★★★★

    Rookiie said:

    J0eySn0w said:

    @Rookiie @FluffyPigMonster You guys have some faith, and I respect it cos the champ could really use some of these tweaks but I'm not hopeful. DOn't get me wrong would be glad if they do but considering what they did to Guillotine and how they pretty much still wanna stick to their decision I doubt they will revisit DDHK. It's unlike the Kabam I know.

    To be fair, when we asked for changes to Odin and iHulk we got them both, exactly as we wanted them.

    iHulk > pause Rage during specials
    Odin > remove penalizing effects of no Odinsleep

    Now I know that some things didn’t go our way with some champs like Nova and Guillotine, but the least we can do is try. Try and hope for the best.

    Also, thanks for your good words mate.
    That was a good time. We really banded together.

    I know it’s Sunday, so we have to keep this discussion open and expose what’s wrong with him and keep presenting solutions (which are all reasonable).

    Let’s do it again @Rookiie !

    I am all game for it @FluffyPigMonster .
    A hat-trick is on the cards.
  • HieitakuHieitaku Posts: 1,313 ★★★★★
    Rookiie said:

    What do you think about Righteous Wrath dealing Direct Damage off DD Flix’s Special Attacks
    @FluffyPigMonster @Hieitaku ?
    Would it be too much? He would remind me of Hercules in this case. Except Hercules doesn’t inflict bleed so it might be too much.
    What if it was 120% for basic attacks and 60% for special attacks?

    Not at all. With the testing I did, albeit limited, it won't be OP if his instableeds applied to hits in his special attacks. It could make him really good, but not OP. 35% is still a low chance imo.

    I agree that RW can be kept up consistently with skillful gameplay, but that's what the game should be about: rewarding skillful gameplay.
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★
    Hieitaku said:

    Rookiie said:

    What do you think about Righteous Wrath dealing Direct Damage off DD Flix’s Special Attacks
    @FluffyPigMonster @Hieitaku ?
    Would it be too much? He would remind me of Hercules in this case. Except Hercules doesn’t inflict bleed so it might be too much.
    What if it was 120% for basic attacks and 60% for special attacks?

    Not at all. With the testing I did, albeit limited, it won't be OP if his instableeds applied to hits in his special attacks. It could make him really good, but not OP. 35% is still a low chance imo.

    I agree that RW can be kept up consistently with skillful gameplay, but that's what the game should be about: rewarding skillful gameplay.
    Awesome. While I don’t see the damage as the biggest problem I agree 100%

    Rewarding skillful gameplay is always welcomed.
  • ChobblyChobbly Posts: 417 ★★★
    There's been lots of great ideas - here, on the Spotlight and the Suggestions forum. Some might even have been workable or code-able.

    The Regen Rate is the biggest issue. It affects DDHK so disproportionately to Kingpin who has an easy way to deal with Debuffs/Suicides. In the last few months I've only used DDHK when I needed a miss counter and sometimes I've gone with a safer option. Sometimes that's actually been Kingpin.

    Increasing the Base Regeneration Rate to 50% or 60% have only minimal impact. It would be appreciated, sure, but not enough to fix the issue.

    Here's some ideas:

    1) Base Regeneration Rate is increased from the normal 40% to X (40% to whatever%), depending on Signature Level. This could be added to the Sig Ability - not perfect but one idea to control progression.

    2) Whilst in Stick's Apprentice mode, Base Regeneration Rate is increased by X%.

    3) Increase Base Regeneration Rate to 50%, then double the amount of Regeneration received from damaging Debuffs.

    Like I said, there's so much which could be done. With a positive, supportive and calm approach let's see if we can get DDHK uplifted to where he deserves to be.
  • Nightkiller7314Nightkiller7314 Posts: 106
    edited November 2021
    not wanting to disappoint any of you but.... kabam wont do anything about like guillotine. they'll ignore it untill it fades away with new contents/bugs/events etc. wish this could change
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★

    not wanting to disappoint any of you but.... kabam wont do anything about like guillotine. they'll ignore it untill it fades away with new contents/bugs/events etc. wish this could change

    Guillotine’s abilities are what they are. Whether you like her abilities or not - she isn’t hampered by a 40% regeneration rate.

    DDHK can’t be played with liquid courage or double edge, and his damage isn’t close to Guillotine’s.

    Stinky regeneration rate and no remarkable damage. At least buffed Guilly can somewhat regenerate with a normal regeneration rate and has damage that is reasonable.

    Again - it comes down to the regen rate.
  • ChobblyChobbly Posts: 417 ★★★

    not wanting to disappoint any of you but.... kabam wont do anything about like guillotine. they'll ignore it untill it fades away with new contents/bugs/events etc. wish this could change

    Guillotine’s abilities are what they are. Whether you like her abilities or not - she isn’t hampered by a 40% regeneration rate.

    DDHK can’t be played with liquid courage or double edge, and his damage isn’t close to Guillotine’s.

    Stinky regeneration rate and no remarkable damage. At least buffed Guilly can somewhat regenerate with a normal regeneration rate and has damage that is reasonable.

    Again - it comes down to the regen rate.
    Absolutely agree @FluffyPigMonster . We also know that changing the raw Base Regen should be straightforward and require minimal Dev time as they pushed out the change to Kingpin and DDHK really quickly when their Regen Rates were bugged. That's an easy customer-facing win in my book.
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★
    sherin_66 said:

    Damn this thread came back up and I actually thought they were gonna do something to DD :'(

    No one from Kabam has responded yet - one way or another. We’re all hopeful.
  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 3,887 ★★★★★
    Hey there @Kabam Boo could you please get this socialized with Miike and the wider team? I know you guys can’t commit to anything but we would really appreciate some information from your team on our suggestions and feedback.
  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 3,887 ★★★★★
    edited November 2021
    Hieitaku said:

    Rookiie said:

    What do you think about Righteous Wrath dealing Direct Damage off DD Flix’s Special Attacks
    @FluffyPigMonster @Hieitaku ?
    Would it be too much? He would remind me of Hercules in this case. Except Hercules doesn’t inflict bleed so it might be too much.
    What if it was 120% for basic attacks and 60% for special attacks?

    Not at all. With the testing I did, albeit limited, it won't be OP if his instableeds applied to hits in his special attacks. It could make him really good, but not OP. 35% is still a low chance imo.

    I agree that RW can be kept up consistently with skillful gameplay, but that's what the game should be about: rewarding skillful gameplay.

    That was an awesome response @Hieitaku thank you. Rewarding skillful gameplay is really important.
    I think that was Seatin’s main gripe too. All of this skillful game but without much reward.
    Managing the combo meter puts a lot of mental load on the player and if they tuned up the RW percentage and fixed the duration of Cruelty and Precision it will prove to be a lot more satisfying / less stressful to maintain.

    And then we will get the brawler we deserve.
  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 3,887 ★★★★★
    edited November 2021
    @Kabam Miike I’m really sorry for being up your alley on this chat but could we have this looked into please? If it’s not too much to ask for could we have a Q&A session with Kabam John as well? The Devil of Hell’s Kitchen has a small but fiercely loyal hardcore fan base who want to see him reach his true potential (which is not far away mind you).
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★
    Rookiie said:

    @Kabam Miike I’m really sorry for being up your alley on this chat but could we have this looked into please? If it’s not too much to ask for could we have a Q&A session with Kabam John as well? The Devil of Hell’s Kitchen has a small but fiercely loyal hardcore fan base who want to see him reach his true potential (which is not far away mind you).

    I believe the fan base for DDHK is a bit more modest than that. And if you made him viable that modest fan base would grow for certain.
  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 3,887 ★★★★★

    Rookiie said:

    @Kabam Miike I’m really sorry for being up your alley on this chat but could we have this looked into please? If it’s not too much to ask for could we have a Q&A session with Kabam John as well? The Devil of Hell’s Kitchen has a small but fiercely loyal hardcore fan base who want to see him reach his true potential (which is not far away mind you).

    I believe the fan base for DDHK is a bit more modest than that. And if you made him viable that modest fan base would grow for certain.

    I wish I could test out the changes we discussed.
    I want to see if they would help finish fights faster.
  • ChobblyChobbly Posts: 417 ★★★
    edited November 2021
    @Kabam Miike , @Kabam Boo

    Just to add my voice to the requests, could you please let us know or find out if there's is any chance of a small update to Daredevil (Hell's Kitchen)? The champion was released almost a year ago and it was said that the team would monitor and wait for more data.

    The Regeneration Rate penalty is the biggest thing hurting the character and we hope that you and Kabam could consider making some changes to the kit to improve Daredevil's low Base Regeneration Rate. The character is widely regarded to be useless with Suicide Masteries enabled and arguably suffers excessively from DoT effects more than any other champion in the game.

    We appreciate that any change would likely be limited in terms of complexity and just be a 'quick fix'. We know that there's a lot going on, especially at this time of year, but thanks for reading.
This discussion has been closed.