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Devil of Hell's Kitchen Overhaul: Thoughts?

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Comments

  • KingInBlackKingInBlack Posts: 200 ★★
    Love this thread, I wish DD was better so I could justify using him beyond stuff like UC and below to beat up on easy opponents. I love the character, love his design and animations, hate his absolutely horrendous regen and wish he had some better damage. Doesn't need to put of some Herc level damage, just a touch up on what he has.

    As others have said, beef up the chance for the RW insta bleeds to trigger to say, 50% and maybe change it from basic attacks to all attacks, give us a reason to want to use the extra power to activate it over the sp2. Obviously set the regen rate to normal, they tried it out and it's a massive fail, just accept its a mistake and correct it.

    The sp1 crit boost needs much longer duration or again, no reason to ever use it. I'd rather see the heavy cruelty get a longer duration between the two though, I'd still be more likely to use the sp2 or if the suggested changes were implemented the sp3 so a boost to the cruelty duration would be my next most wanted change.

    The sig ability to ignore passive damage and the miss counter is some solid utility to give him a place in the game, he just needs some tweaks to really come into his own. The regen rate fix is a must, absolutely shouldn't go ignored even if everything else does. If kabam were open to more I'd put the sp3 buff next in terms of importance (imo) followed by the heavy cruelty duration.
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★
    edited November 2021

    The sig ability to ignore passive damage and the miss counter is some solid utility to give him a place in the game, he just needs some tweaks to really come into his own. The regen rate fix is a must, absolutely shouldn't go ignored even if everything else does. If kabam were open to more I'd put the sp3 buff next in terms of importance (imo) followed by the heavy cruelty duration.

    He does have a bunch of solid utility. It’s overshadowed by your next sentence - the crippling regeneration rate.

    His damage isn’t high. His regen rate is low. He got burned on both ends.

    I personally can use him in so much content if he wasn’t restricted by the regen. If you set it back to 100% it would be completely fair. The regen you would get from the rage is not going to allow people to recover from mistakes.

    Just like Diablo with his poisons - if poisons would stack he doesn’t get a large regen that makes him overpowered.

    Corvus with bleeds and shocks

    IBom with poisons

    DDHK’s damage isn’t so high that he would finish fights so quickly. He’s a brawler type champ that is scrappy. I like his design - but the regen……

    Please comment, Kabam.
  • KingInBlackKingInBlack Posts: 200 ★★

    The sig ability to ignore passive damage and the miss counter is some solid utility to give him a place in the game, he just needs some tweaks to really come into his own. The regen rate fix is a must, absolutely shouldn't go ignored even if everything else does. If kabam were open to more I'd put the sp3 buff next in terms of importance (imo) followed by the heavy cruelty duration.

    He does have a bunch of solid utility. It’s overshadowed by your next sentence - the crippling regeneration rate.

    His damage isn’t high. His regen rate is low. He got burned on both ends.

    I personally can use him in so much content if he wasn’t restricted by the regen. If you set it back to 100% it would be completely fair. The regen you would get from the rage is not going to allow people to recover from mistakes.

    Just like Diablo with his poisons - if poisons would stack he doesn’t get a large regen that makes him overpowered.

    Corvus with bleeds and shocks

    IBom with poisons

    DDHK’s damage isn’t so high that he would finish fights so quickly. He’s a brawler type champ that is scrappy. I like his design - but the regen……

    Please comment, Kabam.
    I'd personally like to see a bit of a damage boost in the ways mentioned, even just the sp3 buff would be lovely, but you're spot on that the regen is the main thing. I've had my 5* at r4 since rhe buff was announced and he sat until I turned off suicides because he's completely unplayable with them. Since then he's been fun to use and if I got a 6* would rank him with those minor tweaks.
  • ChobblyChobbly Posts: 417 ★★★
    edited November 2021
    I think there's a difference between what we could want and hope for.

    At this stage, I'd be happy if just the Regen Rate was changed. Anything else would be a bonus.
  • Hrishikesh713Hrishikesh713 Posts: 591 ★★★
  • KerneasKerneas Posts: 3,093 ★★★★★
    I am all-in for this. DDHK is one of my fave buffs in terms of champion feel. And the arguments presented in this discussion are fair and tbh one of the most constructive and reasonable feedback I've seen on the forums in a long time. I think in this only case, Kabam's silence is downright impolite. I'd still give them some time to respond, but if this thread follows the fate of Guilly thread, it'll be a big letdown.
  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 3,887 ★★★★★
    Kerneas said:

    I am all-in for this. DDHK is one of my fave buffs in terms of champion feel. And the arguments presented in this discussion are fair and tbh one of the most constructive and reasonable feedback I've seen on the forums in a long time. I think in this only case, Kabam's silence is downright impolite. I'd still give them some time to respond, but if this thread follows the fate of Guilly thread, it'll be a big letdown.

    Yes! Thank you for the feedback and glad to see you are on board with this. Yes, I think Kabam need to address this particularly because it was the first big let down (it was an overhaul), and the kit doesn’t seem to come together, and there is a gaping hole in his kit with the regen. And it will be perceived as impolite particularly because we have been waiting for them to tell us what they have found from ‘continuing to monitor his data’.

    An update, or a Q&A is in order.
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★
    Chobbly said:

    I think there's a difference between what we could want and hope for.

    At this stage, I'd be happy if just the Regen Rate was changed. Anything else would be a bonus.

    This would make him so worthwhile. Just make the regen rate normal. That’s it.
  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 3,887 ★★★★★
    edited November 2021

    Chobbly said:

    I think there's a difference between what we could want and hope for.

    At this stage, I'd be happy if just the Regen Rate was changed. Anything else would be a bonus.

    This would make him so worthwhile. Just make the regen rate normal. That’s it.

    And pausing the Cruelty & Precision buffs on striking the opponent / increasing duration.
    It’s more necessary than you think, as this is what is meant to make his kit come together.
    After 30-40 hits, I have about 3 seconds uptime of all the good things together: Rage, 2x Cruelty and Precision. After which things start to quickly fall off.
    What needs to be understood is that he is still a complicated champion, and it’s hard to figure out how best to manage him because the good things fall off before you can keep them up.
    If we need to see the parts in his kit that are meant to shine, then we need to prolong the good things. I’m advocating for Cruelty and Precision as much as the Regen, and one thing should not be given in place of the other, as they are equally important.
    I might not take DDHK into a debuff heavy match up, and if I’m that matchup I can’t find rewards to reap in his kit then why shall I play him?
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★
    While I believe Kabam has done a way better job of communicating, being transparent (roadmaps), etc, I still think they need to focus on Marketing a little more. This thread is just that. The community is speaking up about a change to a character that would bring much joy to many people.

    If you just fixed something that was collectively brought to your attention, it resonates with the community.

    I’m confident we can get this done.
  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 3,887 ★★★★★

    While I believe Kabam has done a way better job of communicating, being transparent (roadmaps), etc, I still think they need to focus on Marketing a little more. This thread is just that. The community is speaking up about a change to a character that would bring much joy to many people.

    If you just fixed something that was collectively brought to your attention, it resonates with the community.

    I’m confident we can get this done.

    I am too 👊🏽
  • HieitakuHieitaku Posts: 1,313 ★★★★★
    Rookiie said:

    OH! You know what would be fun? Instead of increasing the Cruelty and Precision buff duration, maybe they could pause it during Basic and Special Attacks! Keep it at their current values but pause them when striking the opponent!

    That would be prone to passive ai, like Ihulk and Herc's immortal phase. But it's an improvement nonetheless.
  • ChobblyChobbly Posts: 417 ★★★

    While I believe Kabam has done a way better job of communicating, being transparent (roadmaps), etc, I still think they need to focus on Marketing a little more. This thread is just that. The community is speaking up about a change to a character that would bring much joy to many people.

    If you just fixed something that was collectively brought to your attention, it resonates with the community.

    I’m confident we can get this done.

    I hope so too. We're not coming from a place where we want DDHK to suddenly become Hercules or CGR, but are trying to get the elements altered which excessively impact the character above any other.

    Plus, we aren't ranting. We are debating, presenting options and cohesive arguments, using facts where available and hopefully all understand the myriad of pressures that are facing the game and Kabam. At the same time, we have fair and reasonable expectations and a hope that our wishes will be engaged with and considered, irrespective of the eventual outcome.

    So, @Kabam Miike , @Kabam Boo, would it be possible for you to look into this for us?
  • CyborgNinja135CyborgNinja135 Posts: 417 ★★★
    Rookiie said:

    OH! You know what would be fun? Instead of increasing the Cruelty and Precision buff duration, maybe they could pause it during Basic and Special Attacks! Keep it at their current values but pause them when striking the opponent!

    I've been playing around with Crossbones in the last 2 days and I'm really enjoying his mechanics where intercepting with a special or punishing a heavy refreshes/pauses his furies. I think DDHK could get this too but for all his buffs. Although hopefully not as bugged as with crossbones
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★

    Rookiie said:

    OH! You know what would be fun? Instead of increasing the Cruelty and Precision buff duration, maybe they could pause it during Basic and Special Attacks! Keep it at their current values but pause them when striking the opponent!

    I've been playing around with Crossbones in the last 2 days and I'm really enjoying his mechanics where intercepting with a special or punishing a heavy refreshes/pauses his furies. I think DDHK could get this too but for all his buffs. Although hopefully not as bugged as with crossbones
    DDHK’s heavy is great for intercepting.

    First things first - fix the regen
  • ChobblyChobbly Posts: 417 ★★★
    edited November 2021


    First things first - fix the regen

    Absolutely. Other things can come later if needed - and even if they don't the champ would still be in a better place than where he is now.

    Fixing the Base Regeneration Rate could be done quickly, with minimal Dev time. Such things are important, especially when there are competing issues to deal with. The change could also be pushed out without requiring a maintenance release slot if the same as before, which again is also an important consideration.

    He's supposed to be the Man Without Fear after all, rather than the Man Terrified Of Damaging Debuffs.
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★
    Chobbly said:


    First things first - fix the regen

    Absolutely. Other things can come later if needed - and even if they don't the champ would still be in a better place than where he is now.

    Fixing the Base Regeneration Rate could be done quickly, with minimal Dev time. Such things are important, especially when there are competing issues to deal with. The change could also be pushed out without requiring a maintenance release slot if the same as before, which again is also an important consideration.

    He's supposed to be the Man Without Fear after all, rather than the Man Terrified Of Damaging Debuffs.
    LoL. Especially now where DD is on his way back to the Silver Screen.

    Honestly, I’m thinking of the possibilities for him if the regen was normal.
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★
    I understand, @Kabam Miike that you’re having to sort out the Hawkeye buff - which is in itself heartbreaking. I mean, any way you do it if you reduce his damage now it doesn’t look good, but I digress.

    Any comment from anyone regarding this thread? We’ve presented the problems and the solutions. Thank you.
  • RookiieRookiie Posts: 3,887 ★★★★★

    I understand, @Kabam Miike that you’re having to sort out the Hawkeye buff - which is in itself heartbreaking. I mean, any way you do it if you reduce his damage now it doesn’t look good, but I digress.

    Any comment from anyone regarding this thread? We’ve presented the problems and the solutions. Thank you.

    Loving the persistence FPM. Let’s keep fighting for DDHK.
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★
    Rookiie said:

    I understand, @Kabam Miike that you’re having to sort out the Hawkeye buff - which is in itself heartbreaking. I mean, any way you do it if you reduce his damage now it doesn’t look good, but I digress.

    Any comment from anyone regarding this thread? We’ve presented the problems and the solutions. Thank you.

    Loving the persistence FPM. Let’s keep fighting for DDHK.
    I don’t see it as fighting. That would imply there’s an opponent. Kabam and the community all want the same thing. A better, long lasting game.

    Bringing this to their attention, with persistence and a solution benefits everyone (especially DDHK).

    I know they have other issues right now, but we just need to remind them of what we want.
  • Hrishikesh713Hrishikesh713 Posts: 591 ★★★
    @Kabam Miike @Kabam Zibiit @Kabam Porthos @Kabam Vydious @Kabam Lyra can you guys please please make it possible
  • Unio77Unio77 Posts: 2,310 ★★★★★
    edited December 2021
    Reading these comments and I see the passion everyone has to DD.
    Makes the crime act of his buff that much more criminal
  • kenadroidkenadroid Posts: 417 ★★★
    Rookiie said:

    Which dimension do you think they will focus on? His damage, utility, even synergies?

    What would you like to see in his kit?

    And lastly, do you think they will do good enough of a job to land him amongst the greats? I sure as Hell hope so.

    Honestly, I found him the best counter for Prof X and Ebony Maw when untouchables was the defense tactic
  • ChobblyChobbly Posts: 417 ★★★
    edited December 2021
    Unio77 said:

    Reading these comments and I see the passion everyone has to DD.
    Makes the crime act of his buff that much more criminal

    I can see that for DDHK's buff Kabam were trying out something new. They got it right with Kingpin but significantly less so with DDHK. Kingpin is far easier to use, has arguably more widely relevant utility, more consistent damage and has a built in way to deal with damaging Debuffs.

    There are areas of his kit which could benefit from attention, but trying to gain support stands a better chance if we focus on one aspect of the kit, the worst one. The most damning of those problem areas is the Base Regeneration Rate.

    I would like it fully restoring if possible. A small change would make a barely perceptible difference to the numbers. A strong restoration would give him a unique place in the midfield of Skill champs as a tough and resilient option for content other than those limited times which require a Miss Counter or combo control.
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 2,069 ★★★★★
    Chobbly said:

    Unio77 said:

    Reading these comments and I see the passion everyone has to DD.
    Makes the crime act of his buff that much more criminal

    I can see that for DDHK's buff Kabam were trying out something new. They got it right with Kingpin but significantly less so with DDHK. Kingpin is far easier to use, has arguably more widely relevant utility, more consistent damage and has a built in way to deal with damaging Debuffs.

    There are areas of his kit which could benefit from attention, but trying to gain support stands a better chance if we focus on one aspect of the kit, the worst one. The most damning of those problem areas is the Base Regeneration Rate.

    I would like it fully restoring if possible. A small change would make a barely perceptible difference to the numbers. A strong restoration would give him a unique place in the midfield of Skill champs as a tough and resilient option for content other than those limited times which require a Miss Counter or combo control.
    I believe if his regeneration rate is restored it will solve most issues.

    I just used Diablo and his health remained at 100%

    Then I used DDHK and his health went down to 70%

    Both were never touched by the opponent
This discussion has been closed.