Basically they've nerfed all of the actual utility that I regularly play him for, and replaced it with better damage output. But not enough damage output that I'd bother to use him for that purpose, since there are plenty of other champs that will still be better in that area.
Hood was a niche champ. He was basically there for buff suppression, but he was one of the best in game at that particular purpose. This change basically makes him mediocre at it, brings his damage up to also-mediocre levels, and adds in some unnecessarily complicated mechanics to boot. It makes him OK (not great) at several things, instead of great at one.
But being OK at a handful of things isn't going to make him useful for any of them.
The net result of this update is basically going to be to shove Hood to the bench for most people. The only thing he can do now that other champs can't do better is provide a nice synergy for Ghost.
What did you use him for particularly?
What nodes, what champs? Everyone’s statements are so generic , but not giving me real answers.
Amazing Buff Control when it is needed, a reliable miss mechanic against projectiles. Stun immunity and some decent Power Control.
Are those the answers you were looking for? Despite many real answers in this thread being there.
The issue is , you see what happens to amazing champs that were once mediocre Mole Man , Torch etc. these champs had workable kits so a value update made it possible to bring them to the top.
Even if you gave Hood 100% damage it would make him a below average champ, even with Stryfe and boost he was below average. The reason is he did not have a kit to work with bleed , shock, hex, those really weren’t doing anything for him.
The fate seal seems more important than it is because his staggers would sometimes not apply for an entire combo. He now also has much more use outside of specific matchups , most matches needed staggers not fate sale as opposed to the vision AA match. While I do understand people’s frustration, I think they now on paper get much more out of their champ instead of just one piece of utility.
Torch was a utility beast against mystic but struggled outside of every single match that’s because he was not tuned right , once tuned he shines all over. Hood doesn’t have that privilege , he now has utility that allows him to keep up his damage and bonuses if he nullifies buffs.
I talked to a lot of people and when I ask them what did they use hood for particularly , they can’t really give me a straight answer.
Magneto lost his Ability to rank SP3s, which was valuable to me, he also lost his heal block that came in clutch for me at times.
Old man Logan- Regen Passive became a buff ( R5 before update)
These affected me, but magneto is a much better character then he was so is OML.
Balances are apart of game , and Kabam has always been fair if these balances were unfavorable. We can’t decide that yet until Monday. On paper he looks good , but we won’t know until Monday.
Gonna just ignore Cats post giving you specific scenarios? You’re also seemingly ignoring the dangerous precedent this sets with future ‘buffs’
See my response to cats post , I didn’t ignore it.
I do think it goes both ways though, someone will always be affected, either that or the game dies.
And what happens when the next ‘buff’ Removes Ronans stun lock? Or Loki’s buff steal? Or gladiator Hulks ‘face me’?
We need to make our voices heard now rather than when it affects a champion we personally have invested in. It could be too late for Hoods fate seal, but it might not be for other champions in line for a buff.
How many buffs have we had in the game so far? I have a R2 hood BTW.
29 buffs so far , out of the 29 buffs I can name about 7 that have dominated the Meta. Of course there will be changes that are unfavorable, can you really sit here and see these champs haven’t been great for the game? Objectively you cannot.
Colly Magneto She hulk Venom Red hulk Carnage Mole man Kingpin Falcon
These were champs that were once a bust when you pull them, now they are favorites of many people.
Practically none of those champs were used by anyone for anything prior to being changed either. None of them were members of any widely used team even just as synergy pieces to only even rarely be actually used either. Also, none of them actually lost anything in their updates either. The only even somewhat notable piece would be mags sp3 tank which you already addressed. Find me a single person that ranked and used magneto for that ability and I'd be mightily impressed.
I can’t confirm that and neither can you. But, if that is true they based it off their data , Hoods data must have shown something similar, or else he would not be getting a tune up.
I can only speak subjectively, I do know Hood was always considered underrated, but he doesn’t have any core damage mechanics to make him a reasonable option anywhere. If we are discussing mid game players , there are many 4* that can do a better job than Hood can. Now when we get into act 6 someone mentioned a 6.4.6 mystic path that I just reviewed , but will test soon.
You're absolutely right that I don't have any actual data to look at. All I can do is the same thing any other player can, go off of what I see, hear, and do myself. I know for a fact that I have myself used Hood and know other people that have/do. Making an assumption off where I've been operating in the game for the last couple of years at least, the people I interact with, and what I see or hear going in around me, I'm fairly confident that the number of people using any of those other champs listed for anything significant was substantially lower than those that did so with Hood. It's absolutely an assumption, but it's an assumption I'm fairly confident in making.
As for the stagger chance being increased from 88% to 100%, remember that this is only on critical hits and the staggers do not stack. Along with that, their timer has been decreased from 7.5 seconds to 5 seconds and you can no longer refresh off heavy, making them less reliable for buff control.
Most of the time my math is at best light calculation. This time, it is actually for-real math. Fair warning.
One way to judge the staggers is to ask what are the odds of refreshing them before they expire. This depends on the odds of landing a stagger per attack and the duration of the stagger. You have until the duration expires to land another one. Let's call the amount of attacks you can launch during Hood2.0's stagger duration (5s) X. As an approximate estimate, we can say that if you can fire off X attacks in 5 seconds, you can probably fire off about 1.5X attacks in 7.5s, the duration of Hood1.0's staggers.
If the chance to trigger a stagger is S, then the odds of not triggering a stagger after K attacks is (1-S)^K. We know the odds of Hood1.0 triggering a stagger is 88% when landing a crit, and the base crit chance of Hood1.0 is 23%. So we get the chance to trigger stagger as 0.23 * 0.88 = 0.2024.
For Hood2.0 to have the same chance to refresh stagger before it expires, we need (1-0.2024) ^ (1.5X) = (1-H) ^ X where H is Hood2.0's critical chance. If H is less than 0.23, then Hood2.0 has better uptime for his staggers, and if H is greater than 0.23 then Hood2.0 has worse uptime for his staggers, and we also know how much higher his crit rate would have to be to match Hood1.0's stagger uptime. Solving we get 1.5X ln(0.7976) = X ln(1-H). We can divide out X (which means this relationship doesn't depend on how fast the player attacks and is instead an intrinsic relationship between the two ability's designs) and get 1.5 ln(0.7976) = ln(1-H). (1-H) = 0.7123; H = 0.2877.
Therefore, Hood2.0's stagger will be harder to maintain with the higher trigger rate and lower duration. If the trigger rate (i.e. critical rate) was increased to 0.2877 (28.77%), then Hood2.0's stagger uptime would equal Hood1.0's stagger uptime. That doesn't mean they would be identical in effect, it just means Hood2.0 would catch up to Hood1.0 in this one specific property.
I feel like some people don’t understand the true problem behind this nerf. The fact that being able to change core utilities in exchange for damage and then justifying it as “well they’d be too OP so it’s fine” is actually happening is insane and dangerous for the game and it’s players. Basically, doom (a more popular champ) could lose his aura of hazereth and his power steal on sp1 next month because the doom cycle is wayyy too “OP”. Then what? “Well, he’ll be getting more damage so it’s good” yeah, tell that to literally everyone who’s r5d/r3’d their doom or spent units or their shards only to get him after the 101st opening. Only reason there’s people arguing this is fine is because it doesn’t affect them now. But hood players have been screwed. Ive been lucky with my pulls to actually get to use more ‘efficient’ champs and not have to rely on champs like hood or carnage or any ‘non god tier champs’ but yeah, let’s wait till everyone’s favorite champ has the reason people use them nerfed for no apparent reason other than: “they’re too OP” this is just my two cents and one of my two perspectives though.
As for the stagger chance being increased from 88% to 100%, remember that this is only on critical hits and the staggers do not stack. Along with that, their timer has been decreased from 7.5 seconds to 5 seconds and you can no longer refresh off heavy, making them less reliable for buff control.
Most of the time my math is at best light calculation. This time, it is actually for-real math. Fair warning.
One way to judge the staggers is to ask what are the odds of refreshing them before they expire. This depends on the odds of landing a stagger per attack and the duration of the stagger. You have until the duration expires to land another one. Let's call the amount of attacks you can launch during Hood2.0's stagger duration (5s) X. As an approximate estimate, we can say that if you can fire off X attacks in 5 seconds, you can probably fire off about 1.5X attacks in 7.5s, the duration of Hood1.0's staggers.
If the chance to trigger a stagger is S, then the odds of not triggering a stagger after K attacks is (1-S)^K. We know the odds of Hood1.0 triggering a stagger is 88% when landing a crit, and the base crit chance of Hood1.0 is 23%. So we get the chance to trigger stagger as 0.23 * 0.88 = 0.2024.
For Hood2.0 to have the same chance to refresh stagger before it expires, we need (1-0.2024) ^ (1.5X) = (1-H) ^ X where H is Hood2.0's critical chance. If H is less than 0.23, then Hood2.0 has better uptime for his staggers, and if H is greater than 0.23 then Hood2.0 has worse uptime for his staggers, and we also know how much higher his crit rate would have to be to match Hood1.0's stagger uptime. Solving we get 1.5X ln(0.7976) = X ln(1-H). We can divide out X (which means this relationship doesn't depend on how fast the player attacks and is instead an intrinsic relationship between the two ability's designs) and get 1.5 ln(0.7976) = ln(1-H). (1-H) = 0.7123; H = 0.2877.
Therefore, Hood2.0's stagger will be harder to maintain with the higher trigger rate and lower duration. If the trigger rate (i.e. critical rate) was increased to 0.2877 (28.77%), then Hood2.0's stagger uptime would equal Hood1.0's stagger uptime. That doesn't mean they would be identical in effect, it just means Hood2.0 would catch up to Hood1.0 in this one specific property.
It would be nice to know how much damage he can do with 42 hexes + sp 2 for 50% potency + 75% potency from heavy attack + full suicides
As for the stagger chance being increased from 88% to 100%, remember that this is only on critical hits and the staggers do not stack. Along with that, their timer has been decreased from 7.5 seconds to 5 seconds and you can no longer refresh off heavy, making them less reliable for buff control.
Most of the time my math is at best light calculation. This time, it is actually for-real math. Fair warning.
One way to judge the staggers is to ask what are the odds of refreshing them before they expire. This depends on the odds of landing a stagger per attack and the duration of the stagger. You have until the duration expires to land another one. Let's call the amount of attacks you can launch during Hood2.0's stagger duration (5s) X. As an approximate estimate, we can say that if you can fire off X attacks in 5 seconds, you can probably fire off about 1.5X attacks in 7.5s, the duration of Hood1.0's staggers.
If the chance to trigger a stagger is S, then the odds of not triggering a stagger after K attacks is (1-S)^K. We know the odds of Hood1.0 triggering a stagger is 88% when landing a crit, and the base crit chance of Hood1.0 is 23%. So we get the chance to trigger stagger as 0.23 * 0.88 = 0.2024.
For Hood2.0 to have the same chance to refresh stagger before it expires, we need (1-0.2024) ^ (1.5X) = (1-H) ^ X where H is Hood2.0's critical chance. If H is less than 0.23, then Hood2.0 has better uptime for his staggers, and if H is greater than 0.23 then Hood2.0 has worse uptime for his staggers, and we also know how much higher his crit rate would have to be to match Hood1.0's stagger uptime. Solving we get 1.5X ln(0.7976) = X ln(1-H). We can divide out X (which means this relationship doesn't depend on how fast the player attacks and is instead an intrinsic relationship between the two ability's designs) and get 1.5 ln(0.7976) = ln(1-H). (1-H) = 0.7123; H = 0.2877.
Therefore, Hood2.0's stagger will be harder to maintain with the higher trigger rate and lower duration. If the trigger rate (i.e. critical rate) was increased to 0.2877 (28.77%), then Hood2.0's stagger uptime would equal Hood1.0's stagger uptime. That doesn't mean they would be identical in effect, it just means Hood2.0 would catch up to Hood1.0 in this one specific property.
Do we know if he will get a crit chance increase ?
Basically they've nerfed all of the actual utility that I regularly play him for, and replaced it with better damage output. But not enough damage output that I'd bother to use him for that purpose, since there are plenty of other champs that will still be better in that area.
Hood was a niche champ. He was basically there for buff suppression, but he was one of the best in game at that particular purpose. This change basically makes him mediocre at it, brings his damage up to also-mediocre levels, and adds in some unnecessarily complicated mechanics to boot. It makes him OK (not great) at several things, instead of great at one.
But being OK at a handful of things isn't going to make him useful for any of them.
The net result of this update is basically going to be to shove Hood to the bench for most people. The only thing he can do now that other champs can't do better is provide a nice synergy for Ghost.
What did you use him for particularly?
What nodes, what champs? Everyone’s statements are so generic , but not giving me real answers.
Amazing Buff Control when it is needed, a reliable miss mechanic against projectiles. Stun immunity and some decent Power Control.
Are those the answers you were looking for? Despite many real answers in this thread being there.
His miss mechanic will be the same if not better. It’s only 90% any projectile you have 120-100-90 -70
What buffs were you controlling , the fate seal stemmed better because staggers would sometimes fail, that’s not necessary anymore. Because on a crit they won’t
No, his miss becomes worse because it becomes practically impossible to miss after he would do it 6 times.
Literally any buff, cause with his staggers he also regens if they expire and with the fate seal, he stops any buffs basically and reduces opppnent AAR.
Basically they've nerfed all of the actual utility that I regularly play him for, and replaced it with better damage output. But not enough damage output that I'd bother to use him for that purpose, since there are plenty of other champs that will still be better in that area.
Hood was a niche champ. He was basically there for buff suppression, but he was one of the best in game at that particular purpose. This change basically makes him mediocre at it, brings his damage up to also-mediocre levels, and adds in some unnecessarily complicated mechanics to boot. It makes him OK (not great) at several things, instead of great at one.
But being OK at a handful of things isn't going to make him useful for any of them.
The net result of this update is basically going to be to shove Hood to the bench for most people. The only thing he can do now that other champs can't do better is provide a nice synergy for Ghost.
What did you use him for particularly?
What nodes, what champs? Everyone’s statements are so generic , but not giving me real answers.
Amazing Buff Control when it is needed, a reliable miss mechanic against projectiles. Stun immunity and some decent Power Control.
Are those the answers you were looking for? Despite many real answers in this thread being there.
The issue is , you see what happens to amazing champs that were once mediocre Mole Man , Torch etc. these champs had workable kits so a value update made it possible to bring them to the top.
Even if you gave Hood 100% damage it would make him a below average champ, even with Stryfe and boost he was below average. The reason is he did not have a kit to work with bleed , shock, hex, those really weren’t doing anything for him.
The fate seal seems more important than it is because his staggers would sometimes not apply for an entire combo. He now also has much more use outside of specific matchups , most matches needed staggers not fate sale as opposed to the vision AA match. While I do understand people’s frustration, I think they now on paper get much more out of their champ instead of just one piece of utility.
Torch was a utility beast against mystic but struggled outside of every single match that’s because he was not tuned right , once tuned he shines all over. Hood doesn’t have that privilege , he now has utility that allows him to keep up his damage and bonuses if he nullifies buffs.
I talked to a lot of people and when I ask them what did they use hood for particularly , they can’t really give me a straight answer.
Magneto lost his Ability to rank SP3s, which was valuable to me, he also lost his heal block that came in clutch for me at times.
Old man Logan- Regen Passive became a buff ( R5 before update)
These affected me, but magneto is a much better character then he was so is OML.
Balances are apart of game , and Kabam has always been fair if these balances were unfavorable. We can’t decide that yet until Monday. On paper he looks good , but we won’t know until Monday.
Gonna just ignore Cats post giving you specific scenarios? You’re also seemingly ignoring the dangerous precedent this sets with future ‘buffs’
See my response to cats post , I didn’t ignore it.
I do think it goes both ways though, someone will always be affected, either that or the game dies.
And what happens when the next ‘buff’ Removes Ronans stun lock? Or Loki’s buff steal? Or gladiator Hulks ‘face me’?
We need to make our voices heard now rather than when it affects a champion we personally have invested in. It could be too late for Hoods fate seal, but it might not be for other champions in line for a buff.
How many buffs have we had in the game so far? I have a R2 hood BTW.
29 buffs so far , out of the 29 buffs I can name about 7 that have dominated the Meta. Of course there will be changes that are unfavorable, can you really sit here and see these champs haven’t been great for the game? Objectively you cannot.
Colly Magneto She hulk Venom Red hulk Carnage Mole man Kingpin Falcon
These were champs that were once a bust when you pull them, now they are favorites of many people.
Practically none of those champs were used by anyone for anything prior to being changed either. None of them were members of any widely used team even just as synergy pieces to only even rarely be actually used either. Also, none of them actually lost anything in their updates either. The only even somewhat notable piece would be mags sp3 tank which you already addressed. Find me a single person that ranked and used magneto for that ability and I'd be mightily impressed.
I can’t confirm that and neither can you. But, if that is true they based it off their data , Hoods data must have shown something similar, or else he would not be getting a tune up.
I can only speak subjectively, I do know Hood was always considered underrated, but he doesn’t have any core damage mechanics to make him a reasonable option anywhere. If we are discussing mid game players , there are many 4* that can do a better job than Hood can. Now when we get into act 6 someone mentioned a 6.4.6 mystic path that I just reviewed , but will test soon.
I took Hood to r4 specifically for the Vigorous assault, arc overload path in 6.1.6 a few days ago. No amount of staggers will help you there unless you're an intercept god. I'm not so I ranked him up and he cleared the entire path with only a few health potions in between fights for safety. That fate seal, AAR and ability to refresh everything is more useful than you think if you know how to use him. All the champions I take to r4 are done to serve very specific purposes: AA for AAR, Vodoo for power control, Guilly for damage, immunities and other things, Void for heal reversal and now Hood for buff control which he does well enough. His current update makes him useless. I have Hype, AA and a 6* CapIW, Hood is the last champion I would rank up for damage.
As for the stagger chance being increased from 88% to 100%, remember that this is only on critical hits and the staggers do not stack. Along with that, their timer has been decreased from 7.5 seconds to 5 seconds and you can no longer refresh off heavy, making them less reliable for buff control.
Most of the time my math is at best light calculation. This time, it is actually for-real math. Fair warning.
One way to judge the staggers is to ask what are the odds of refreshing them before they expire. This depends on the odds of landing a stagger per attack and the duration of the stagger. You have until the duration expires to land another one. Let's call the amount of attacks you can launch during Hood2.0's stagger duration (5s) X. As an approximate estimate, we can say that if you can fire off X attacks in 5 seconds, you can probably fire off about 1.5X attacks in 7.5s, the duration of Hood1.0's staggers.
If the chance to trigger a stagger is S, then the odds of not triggering a stagger after K attacks is (1-S)^K. We know the odds of Hood1.0 triggering a stagger is 88% when landing a crit, and the base crit chance of Hood1.0 is 23%. So we get the chance to trigger stagger as 0.23 * 0.88 = 0.2024.
For Hood2.0 to have the same chance to refresh stagger before it expires, we need (1-0.2024) ^ (1.5X) = (1-H) ^ X where H is Hood2.0's critical chance. If H is less than 0.23, then Hood2.0 has better uptime for his staggers, and if H is greater than 0.23 then Hood2.0 has worse uptime for his staggers, and we also know how much higher his crit rate would have to be to match Hood1.0's stagger uptime. Solving we get 1.5X ln(0.7976) = X ln(1-H). We can divide out X (which means this relationship doesn't depend on how fast the player attacks and is instead an intrinsic relationship between the two ability's designs) and get 1.5 ln(0.7976) = ln(1-H). (1-H) = 0.7123; H = 0.2877.
Therefore, Hood2.0's stagger will be harder to maintain with the higher trigger rate and lower duration. If the trigger rate (i.e. critical rate) was increased to 0.2877 (28.77%), then Hood2.0's stagger uptime would equal Hood1.0's stagger uptime. That doesn't mean they would be identical in effect, it just means Hood2.0 would catch up to Hood1.0 in this one specific property.
Also his power steal is a lot worse imo, as it triggered only on mediums. It will make him most likely less aggressive play - friendly. You would also want to consider his increased crit rate when invisible to get a more accurate model
With 5 sec staggers he can steal opponents health faster than old hood with 7.5 seconds, with new hood you can recover some block damage faster when staggers expires
As for the stagger chance being increased from 88% to 100%, remember that this is only on critical hits and the staggers do not stack. Along with that, their timer has been decreased from 7.5 seconds to 5 seconds and you can no longer refresh off heavy, making them less reliable for buff control.
Most of the time my math is at best light calculation. This time, it is actually for-real math. Fair warning.
One way to judge the staggers is to ask what are the odds of refreshing them before they expire. This depends on the odds of landing a stagger per attack and the duration of the stagger. You have until the duration expires to land another one. Let's call the amount of attacks you can launch during Hood2.0's stagger duration (5s) X. As an approximate estimate, we can say that if you can fire off X attacks in 5 seconds, you can probably fire off about 1.5X attacks in 7.5s, the duration of Hood1.0's staggers.
If the chance to trigger a stagger is S, then the odds of not triggering a stagger after K attacks is (1-S)^K. We know the odds of Hood1.0 triggering a stagger is 88% when landing a crit, and the base crit chance of Hood1.0 is 23%. So we get the chance to trigger stagger as 0.23 * 0.88 = 0.2024.
For Hood2.0 to have the same chance to refresh stagger before it expires, we need (1-0.2024) ^ (1.5X) = (1-H) ^ X where H is Hood2.0's critical chance. If H is less than 0.23, then Hood2.0 has better uptime for his staggers, and if H is greater than 0.23 then Hood2.0 has worse uptime for his staggers, and we also know how much higher his crit rate would have to be to match Hood1.0's stagger uptime. Solving we get 1.5X ln(0.7976) = X ln(1-H). We can divide out X (which means this relationship doesn't depend on how fast the player attacks and is instead an intrinsic relationship between the two ability's designs) and get 1.5 ln(0.7976) = ln(1-H). (1-H) = 0.7123; H = 0.2877.
Therefore, Hood2.0's stagger will be harder to maintain with the higher trigger rate and lower duration. If the trigger rate (i.e. critical rate) was increased to 0.2877 (28.77%), then Hood2.0's stagger uptime would equal Hood1.0's stagger uptime. That doesn't mean they would be identical in effect, it just means Hood2.0 would catch up to Hood1.0 in this one specific property.
Also his power steal is a lot worse imo, as it triggered only on mediums. It will make him most likely less aggressive play - friendly. You would also want to consider his increased crit rate when invisible to get a more accurate model
Does Hood have higher crit rate when Invisible? I thought Invisibility increased critical damage rating.
With 5 sec staggers he can steal opponents health faster than old hood with 7.5 seconds, with new hood you can recover some block damage faster when staggers expires
If that’s a net positive then why not make it 0.1 seconds, and Hood will be a regen god.
Or maybe, it’s a net negative, and people would rather a good buff control champion, yknow, what Hood was designed for.
As for the stagger chance being increased from 88% to 100%, remember that this is only on critical hits and the staggers do not stack. Along with that, their timer has been decreased from 7.5 seconds to 5 seconds and you can no longer refresh off heavy, making them less reliable for buff control.
Most of the time my math is at best light calculation. This time, it is actually for-real math. Fair warning.
One way to judge the staggers is to ask what are the odds of refreshing them before they expire. This depends on the odds of landing a stagger per attack and the duration of the stagger. You have until the duration expires to land another one. Let's call the amount of attacks you can launch during Hood2.0's stagger duration (5s) X. As an approximate estimate, we can say that if you can fire off X attacks in 5 seconds, you can probably fire off about 1.5X attacks in 7.5s, the duration of Hood1.0's staggers.
If the chance to trigger a stagger is S, then the odds of not triggering a stagger after K attacks is (1-S)^K. We know the odds of Hood1.0 triggering a stagger is 88% when landing a crit, and the base crit chance of Hood1.0 is 23%. So we get the chance to trigger stagger as 0.23 * 0.88 = 0.2024.
For Hood2.0 to have the same chance to refresh stagger before it expires, we need (1-0.2024) ^ (1.5X) = (1-H) ^ X where H is Hood2.0's critical chance. If H is less than 0.23, then Hood2.0 has better uptime for his staggers, and if H is greater than 0.23 then Hood2.0 has worse uptime for his staggers, and we also know how much higher his crit rate would have to be to match Hood1.0's stagger uptime. Solving we get 1.5X ln(0.7976) = X ln(1-H). We can divide out X (which means this relationship doesn't depend on how fast the player attacks and is instead an intrinsic relationship between the two ability's designs) and get 1.5 ln(0.7976) = ln(1-H). (1-H) = 0.7123; H = 0.2877.
Therefore, Hood2.0's stagger will be harder to maintain with the higher trigger rate and lower duration. If the trigger rate (i.e. critical rate) was increased to 0.2877 (28.77%), then Hood2.0's stagger uptime would equal Hood1.0's stagger uptime. That doesn't mean they would be identical in effect, it just means Hood2.0 would catch up to Hood1.0 in this one specific property.
Also his power steal is a lot worse imo, as it triggered only on mediums. It will make him most likely less aggressive play - friendly. You would also want to consider his increased crit rate when invisible to get a more accurate model
Does Hood have higher crit rate when Invisible? I thought Invisibility increased critical damage rating.
You’re right @DNA3000. He gains bonus critical damage rating on going invisible, but he doesn’t gain any extra crit rating.
With 5 sec staggers he can steal opponents health faster than old hood with 7.5 seconds, with new hood you can recover some block damage faster when staggers expires
If that’s a net positive then why not make it 0.1 seconds, and Hood will be a regen god.
Or maybe, it’s a net negative, and people would rather a good buff control champion, yknow, what Hood was designed for.
Heh so why not make that staggers last 1 hour longer and he dont even need fateseal from sp 2 xD
With 5 sec staggers he can steal opponents health faster than old hood with 7.5 seconds, with new hood you can recover some block damage faster when staggers expires
If that’s a net positive then why not make it 0.1 seconds, and Hood will be a regen god.
Or maybe, it’s a net negative, and people would rather a good buff control champion, yknow, what Hood was designed for.
Heh so why not make that staggers last 1 hour longer and he dont even need fateseal from sp 2 xD
Still can’t deal with permanent buffs. Every good nullify champ has a way to deal with both permanent and temporary buffs. There is not a single good buff control champ who only has staggers
Basically they've nerfed all of the actual utility that I regularly play him for, and replaced it with better damage output. But not enough damage output that I'd bother to use him for that purpose, since there are plenty of other champs that will still be better in that area.
Hood was a niche champ. He was basically there for buff suppression, but he was one of the best in game at that particular purpose. This change basically makes him mediocre at it, brings his damage up to also-mediocre levels, and adds in some unnecessarily complicated mechanics to boot. It makes him OK (not great) at several things, instead of great at one.
But being OK at a handful of things isn't going to make him useful for any of them.
The net result of this update is basically going to be to shove Hood to the bench for most people. The only thing he can do now that other champs can't do better is provide a nice synergy for Ghost.
What did you use him for particularly?
What nodes, what champs? Everyone’s statements are so generic , but not giving me real answers.
Amazing Buff Control when it is needed, a reliable miss mechanic against projectiles. Stun immunity and some decent Power Control.
Are those the answers you were looking for? Despite many real answers in this thread being there.
The issue is , you see what happens to amazing champs that were once mediocre Mole Man , Torch etc. these champs had workable kits so a value update made it possible to bring them to the top.
Even if you gave Hood 100% damage it would make him a below average champ, even with Stryfe and boost he was below average. The reason is he did not have a kit to work with bleed , shock, hex, those really weren’t doing anything for him.
The fate seal seems more important than it is because his staggers would sometimes not apply for an entire combo. He now also has much more use outside of specific matchups , most matches needed staggers not fate sale as opposed to the vision AA match. While I do understand people’s frustration, I think they now on paper get much more out of their champ instead of just one piece of utility.
Torch was a utility beast against mystic but struggled outside of every single match that’s because he was not tuned right , once tuned he shines all over. Hood doesn’t have that privilege , he now has utility that allows him to keep up his damage and bonuses if he nullifies buffs.
I talked to a lot of people and when I ask them what did they use hood for particularly , they can’t really give me a straight answer.
Magneto lost his Ability to rank SP3s, which was valuable to me, he also lost his heal block that came in clutch for me at times.
Old man Logan- Regen Passive became a buff ( R5 before update)
These affected me, but magneto is a much better character then he was so is OML.
Balances are apart of game , and Kabam has always been fair if these balances were unfavorable. We can’t decide that yet until Monday. On paper he looks good , but we won’t know until Monday.
Gonna just ignore Cats post giving you specific scenarios? You’re also seemingly ignoring the dangerous precedent this sets with future ‘buffs’
See my response to cats post , I didn’t ignore it.
I do think it goes both ways though, someone will always be affected, either that or the game dies.
And what happens when the next ‘buff’ Removes Ronans stun lock? Or Loki’s buff steal? Or gladiator Hulks ‘face me’?
We need to make our voices heard now rather than when it affects a champion we personally have invested in. It could be too late for Hoods fate seal, but it might not be for other champions in line for a buff.
How many buffs have we had in the game so far? I have a R2 hood BTW.
29 buffs so far , out of the 29 buffs I can name about 7 that have dominated the Meta. Of course there will be changes that are unfavorable, can you really sit here and see these champs haven’t been great for the game? Objectively you cannot.
Colly Magneto She hulk Venom Red hulk Carnage Mole man Kingpin Falcon
These were champs that were once a bust when you pull them, now they are favorites of many people.
Practically none of those champs were used by anyone for anything prior to being changed either. None of them were members of any widely used team even just as synergy pieces to only even rarely be actually used either. Also, none of them actually lost anything in their updates either. The only even somewhat notable piece would be mags sp3 tank which you already addressed. Find me a single person that ranked and used magneto for that ability and I'd be mightily impressed.
I can’t confirm that and neither can you. But, if that is true they based it off their data , Hoods data must have shown something similar, or else he would not be getting a tune up.
I can only speak subjectively, I do know Hood was always considered underrated, but he doesn’t have any core damage mechanics to make him a reasonable option anywhere. If we are discussing mid game players , there are many 4* that can do a better job than Hood can. Now when we get into act 6 someone mentioned a 6.4.6 mystic path that I just reviewed , but will test soon.
I took Hood to r4 specifically for the Vigorous assault, arc overload path in 6.1.6 a few days ago. No amount of staggers will help you there unless you're an intercept god. I'm not so I ranked him up and he cleared the entire path with only a few health potions in between fights for safety. That fate seal, AAR and ability to refresh everything is more useful than you think if you know how to use him. All the champions I take to r4 are done to serve very specific purposes: AA for AAR, Vodoo for power control, Guilly for damage, immunities and other things, Void for heal reversal and now Hood for buff control which he does well enough. His current update makes him useless. I have Hype, AA and a 6* CapIW, Hood is the last champion I would rank up for damage.
Thank you for sharing that. I think it’s important to slow all ranges of player and how this may affect them. But why wouldn’t you use your doctor voodoo who is clearly the better option? If he is in war I can understand, but wouldn’t he nullify the regen? If the armor up is at the start of the fight then I can see how that affected you. Thanks for that solid example
With 5 sec staggers he can steal opponents health faster than old hood with 7.5 seconds, with new hood you can recover some block damage faster when staggers expires
Theoretically true, but in practice this is difficult to quantify because it isn't a simple case of one expiring faster. Most of the time, most staggers for both Hood1.0 and Hood2.0 will refresh, which moots the duration. If you're in a fight where Hood is nullifying buffs most of the healing will come from the stagger firing rather than expiring. Only when staggers expire will you get the healing advantage of the shorter duration which is going to dilute the 33% lower duration. And this is coming at the expense of the primary purpose of the stagger, which is to be up and ready to stagger off a buff.
With 5 sec staggers he can steal opponents health faster than old hood with 7.5 seconds, with new hood you can recover some block damage faster when staggers expires
If that’s a net positive then why not make it 0.1 seconds, and Hood will be a regen god.
Or maybe, it’s a net negative, and people would rather a good buff control champion, yknow, what Hood was designed for.
Heh so why not make that staggers last 1 hour longer and he dont even need fateseal from sp 2 xD
Still can’t deal with permanent buffs. Every good nullify champ has a way to deal with both permanent and temporary buffs. There is not a single good buff control champ who only has staggers
Tigra has neutralize it’s a very effective form of buff control. There aren’t many permanent buffs in game that are challenging. His ability is not like mojos where a buff needs to have a duration, mojo in fact can nullify buffs , hood prevents them altogether with his stagger.
Thank you for sharing that. I think it’s important to slow all ranges of player and how this may affect them. But why wouldn’t you use your doctor voodoo who is clearly the better option? If he is in war I can understand, but wouldn’t he nullify the regen? If the armor up is at the start of the fight then I can see how that affected you.
I think regardless of any one player's particular reasoning in this situation, it is enough to consider the cases that a) not all players will possess better options and b) even if a player possesses better options, they may need or want more than one champ capable of doing a particular path on the team.
Basically they've nerfed all of the actual utility that I regularly play him for, and replaced it with better damage output. But not enough damage output that I'd bother to use him for that purpose, since there are plenty of other champs that will still be better in that area.
Hood was a niche champ. He was basically there for buff suppression, but he was one of the best in game at that particular purpose. This change basically makes him mediocre at it, brings his damage up to also-mediocre levels, and adds in some unnecessarily complicated mechanics to boot. It makes him OK (not great) at several things, instead of great at one.
But being OK at a handful of things isn't going to make him useful for any of them.
The net result of this update is basically going to be to shove Hood to the bench for most people. The only thing he can do now that other champs can't do better is provide a nice synergy for Ghost.
What did you use him for particularly?
What nodes, what champs? Everyone’s statements are so generic , but not giving me real answers.
Amazing Buff Control when it is needed, a reliable miss mechanic against projectiles. Stun immunity and some decent Power Control.
Are those the answers you were looking for? Despite many real answers in this thread being there.
The issue is , you see what happens to amazing champs that were once mediocre Mole Man , Torch etc. these champs had workable kits so a value update made it possible to bring them to the top.
Even if you gave Hood 100% damage it would make him a below average champ, even with Stryfe and boost he was below average. The reason is he did not have a kit to work with bleed , shock, hex, those really weren’t doing anything for him.
The fate seal seems more important than it is because his staggers would sometimes not apply for an entire combo. He now also has much more use outside of specific matchups , most matches needed staggers not fate sale as opposed to the vision AA match. While I do understand people’s frustration, I think they now on paper get much more out of their champ instead of just one piece of utility.
Torch was a utility beast against mystic but struggled outside of every single match that’s because he was not tuned right , once tuned he shines all over. Hood doesn’t have that privilege , he now has utility that allows him to keep up his damage and bonuses if he nullifies buffs.
I talked to a lot of people and when I ask them what did they use hood for particularly , they can’t really give me a straight answer.
Magneto lost his Ability to rank SP3s, which was valuable to me, he also lost his heal block that came in clutch for me at times.
Old man Logan- Regen Passive became a buff ( R5 before update)
These affected me, but magneto is a much better character then he was so is OML.
Balances are apart of game , and Kabam has always been fair if these balances were unfavorable. We can’t decide that yet until Monday. On paper he looks good , but we won’t know until Monday.
Gonna just ignore Cats post giving you specific scenarios? You’re also seemingly ignoring the dangerous precedent this sets with future ‘buffs’
See my response to cats post , I didn’t ignore it.
I do think it goes both ways though, someone will always be affected, either that or the game dies.
And what happens when the next ‘buff’ Removes Ronans stun lock? Or Loki’s buff steal? Or gladiator Hulks ‘face me’?
We need to make our voices heard now rather than when it affects a champion we personally have invested in. It could be too late for Hoods fate seal, but it might not be for other champions in line for a buff.
How many buffs have we had in the game so far? I have a R2 hood BTW.
29 buffs so far , out of the 29 buffs I can name about 7 that have dominated the Meta. Of course there will be changes that are unfavorable, can you really sit here and see these champs haven’t been great for the game? Objectively you cannot.
Colly Magneto She hulk Venom Red hulk Carnage Mole man Kingpin Falcon
These were champs that were once a bust when you pull them, now they are favorites of many people.
Practically none of those champs were used by anyone for anything prior to being changed either. None of them were members of any widely used team even just as synergy pieces to only even rarely be actually used either. Also, none of them actually lost anything in their updates either. The only even somewhat notable piece would be mags sp3 tank which you already addressed. Find me a single person that ranked and used magneto for that ability and I'd be mightily impressed.
I can’t confirm that and neither can you. But, if that is true they based it off their data , Hoods data must have shown something similar, or else he would not be getting a tune up.
I can only speak subjectively, I do know Hood was always considered underrated, but he doesn’t have any core damage mechanics to make him a reasonable option anywhere. If we are discussing mid game players , there are many 4* that can do a better job than Hood can. Now when we get into act 6 someone mentioned a 6.4.6 mystic path that I just reviewed , but will test soon.
I took Hood to r4 specifically for the Vigorous assault, arc overload path in 6.1.6 a few days ago. No amount of staggers will help you there unless you're an intercept god. I'm not so I ranked him up and he cleared the entire path with only a few health potions in between fights for safety. That fate seal, AAR and ability to refresh everything is more useful than you think if you know how to use him. All the champions I take to r4 are done to serve very specific purposes: AA for AAR, Vodoo for power control, Guilly for damage, immunities and other things, Void for heal reversal and now Hood for buff control which he does well enough. His current update makes him useless. I have Hype, AA and a 6* CapIW, Hood is the last champion I would rank up for damage.
Thank you for sharing that. I think it’s important to slow all ranges of player and how this may affect them. But why wouldn’t you use your doctor voodoo who is clearly the better option? If he is in war I can understand, but wouldn’t he nullify the regen? If the armor up is at the start of the fight then I can see how that affected you. Thanks for that solid example
Voodoo's chance of nullifying buffs is 50% and you need special attacks to do that. With Brother Daniel on you, it increases to 150% Sure you can place brother Daniel on them for AAR but it's just 50% They will still proc buffs and you lose your increased ability accuracy which means that you can reach 2 bars of power without procing a single loa (Happens to me all the time) You're also forgetting the hurtlocker node so you can't just pop a mystic power boost and spam sp1. But the biggest roadblock against Voodoo is that they all proc tons of buffs. Wolvie and X-23 proc buffs when you hit them, Groot has mystic ward. Voodoo couldn't bypass it, Hood's fate seal does. Angie procs also many buffs that you might not nullify the one you want and the more you hit her, the more resilience counters she gets so she will practically have 100% uptime on regen and unblockable the entire fight. This kind of tricky situation is where Hood shines, arguably better than any other mystic and that is why I ranked him also.
On another note, he was useful for the Psycho man final boss in UC eq while my Medusa was in war. I just put fate seal on him and stop worrying about him going unblockable if I mistakenly hit his block.
Basically they've nerfed all of the actual utility that I regularly play him for, and replaced it with better damage output. But not enough damage output that I'd bother to use him for that purpose, since there are plenty of other champs that will still be better in that area.
Hood was a niche champ. He was basically there for buff suppression, but he was one of the best in game at that particular purpose. This change basically makes him mediocre at it, brings his damage up to also-mediocre levels, and adds in some unnecessarily complicated mechanics to boot. It makes him OK (not great) at several things, instead of great at one.
But being OK at a handful of things isn't going to make him useful for any of them.
The net result of this update is basically going to be to shove Hood to the bench for most people. The only thing he can do now that other champs can't do better is provide a nice synergy for Ghost.
What did you use him for particularly?
What nodes, what champs? Everyone’s statements are so generic , but not giving me real answers.
Amazing Buff Control when it is needed, a reliable miss mechanic against projectiles. Stun immunity and some decent Power Control.
Are those the answers you were looking for? Despite many real answers in this thread being there.
The issue is , you see what happens to amazing champs that were once mediocre Mole Man , Torch etc. these champs had workable kits so a value update made it possible to bring them to the top.
Even if you gave Hood 100% damage it would make him a below average champ, even with Stryfe and boost he was below average. The reason is he did not have a kit to work with bleed , shock, hex, those really weren’t doing anything for him.
The fate seal seems more important than it is because his staggers would sometimes not apply for an entire combo. He now also has much more use outside of specific matchups , most matches needed staggers not fate sale as opposed to the vision AA match. While I do understand people’s frustration, I think they now on paper get much more out of their champ instead of just one piece of utility.
Torch was a utility beast against mystic but struggled outside of every single match that’s because he was not tuned right , once tuned he shines all over. Hood doesn’t have that privilege , he now has utility that allows him to keep up his damage and bonuses if he nullifies buffs.
I talked to a lot of people and when I ask them what did they use hood for particularly , they can’t really give me a straight answer.
Magneto lost his Ability to rank SP3s, which was valuable to me, he also lost his heal block that came in clutch for me at times.
Old man Logan- Regen Passive became a buff ( R5 before update)
These affected me, but magneto is a much better character then he was so is OML.
Balances are apart of game , and Kabam has always been fair if these balances were unfavorable. We can’t decide that yet until Monday. On paper he looks good , but we won’t know until Monday.
Gonna just ignore Cats post giving you specific scenarios? You’re also seemingly ignoring the dangerous precedent this sets with future ‘buffs’
See my response to cats post , I didn’t ignore it.
I do think it goes both ways though, someone will always be affected, either that or the game dies.
And what happens when the next ‘buff’ Removes Ronans stun lock? Or Loki’s buff steal? Or gladiator Hulks ‘face me’?
We need to make our voices heard now rather than when it affects a champion we personally have invested in. It could be too late for Hoods fate seal, but it might not be for other champions in line for a buff.
How many buffs have we had in the game so far? I have a R2 hood BTW.
29 buffs so far , out of the 29 buffs I can name about 7 that have dominated the Meta. Of course there will be changes that are unfavorable, can you really sit here and see these champs haven’t been great for the game? Objectively you cannot.
Colly Magneto She hulk Venom Red hulk Carnage Mole man Kingpin Falcon
These were champs that were once a bust when you pull them, now they are favorites of many people.
Thank you for sharing that. I think it’s important to slow all ranges of player and how this may affect them. But why wouldn’t you use your doctor voodoo who is clearly the better option? If he is in war I can understand, but wouldn’t he nullify the regen? If the armor up is at the start of the fight then I can see how that affected you.
I think regardless of any one player's particular reasoning in this situation, it is enough to consider the cases that a) not all players will possess better options and b) even if a player possesses better options, they may need or want more than one champ capable of doing a particular path on the team.
That’s fair. But hood will still be able to do that with a stagger and prevent all buffs, so I’m just confused how the L2 is affecting that particular lane, when it takes a while to get to the SP2. But you are right about champ selection I will have to measure how effective he is on that lane so I’ll do an prelim test.
Basically they've nerfed all of the actual utility that I regularly play him for, and replaced it with better damage output. But not enough damage output that I'd bother to use him for that purpose, since there are plenty of other champs that will still be better in that area.
Hood was a niche champ. He was basically there for buff suppression, but he was one of the best in game at that particular purpose. This change basically makes him mediocre at it, brings his damage up to also-mediocre levels, and adds in some unnecessarily complicated mechanics to boot. It makes him OK (not great) at several things, instead of great at one.
But being OK at a handful of things isn't going to make him useful for any of them.
The net result of this update is basically going to be to shove Hood to the bench for most people. The only thing he can do now that other champs can't do better is provide a nice synergy for Ghost.
What did you use him for particularly?
What nodes, what champs? Everyone’s statements are so generic , but not giving me real answers.
Amazing Buff Control when it is needed, a reliable miss mechanic against projectiles. Stun immunity and some decent Power Control.
Are those the answers you were looking for? Despite many real answers in this thread being there.
The issue is , you see what happens to amazing champs that were once mediocre Mole Man , Torch etc. these champs had workable kits so a value update made it possible to bring them to the top.
Even if you gave Hood 100% damage it would make him a below average champ, even with Stryfe and boost he was below average. The reason is he did not have a kit to work with bleed , shock, hex, those really weren’t doing anything for him.
The fate seal seems more important than it is because his staggers would sometimes not apply for an entire combo. He now also has much more use outside of specific matchups , most matches needed staggers not fate sale as opposed to the vision AA match. While I do understand people’s frustration, I think they now on paper get much more out of their champ instead of just one piece of utility.
Torch was a utility beast against mystic but struggled outside of every single match that’s because he was not tuned right , once tuned he shines all over. Hood doesn’t have that privilege , he now has utility that allows him to keep up his damage and bonuses if he nullifies buffs.
I talked to a lot of people and when I ask them what did they use hood for particularly , they can’t really give me a straight answer.
Magneto lost his Ability to rank SP3s, which was valuable to me, he also lost his heal block that came in clutch for me at times.
Old man Logan- Regen Passive became a buff ( R5 before update)
These affected me, but magneto is a much better character then he was so is OML.
Balances are apart of game , and Kabam has always been fair if these balances were unfavorable. We can’t decide that yet until Monday. On paper he looks good , but we won’t know until Monday.
Gonna just ignore Cats post giving you specific scenarios? You’re also seemingly ignoring the dangerous precedent this sets with future ‘buffs’
See my response to cats post , I didn’t ignore it.
I do think it goes both ways though, someone will always be affected, either that or the game dies.
And what happens when the next ‘buff’ Removes Ronans stun lock? Or Loki’s buff steal? Or gladiator Hulks ‘face me’?
We need to make our voices heard now rather than when it affects a champion we personally have invested in. It could be too late for Hoods fate seal, but it might not be for other champions in line for a buff.
How many buffs have we had in the game so far? I have a R2 hood BTW.
29 buffs so far , out of the 29 buffs I can name about 7 that have dominated the Meta. Of course there will be changes that are unfavorable, can you really sit here and see these champs haven’t been great for the game? Objectively you cannot.
Colly Magneto She hulk Venom Red hulk Carnage Mole man Kingpin Falcon
These were champs that were once a bust when you pull them, now they are favorites of many people.
Basically they've nerfed all of the actual utility that I regularly play him for, and replaced it with better damage output. But not enough damage output that I'd bother to use him for that purpose, since there are plenty of other champs that will still be better in that area.
Hood was a niche champ. He was basically there for buff suppression, but he was one of the best in game at that particular purpose. This change basically makes him mediocre at it, brings his damage up to also-mediocre levels, and adds in some unnecessarily complicated mechanics to boot. It makes him OK (not great) at several things, instead of great at one.
But being OK at a handful of things isn't going to make him useful for any of them.
The net result of this update is basically going to be to shove Hood to the bench for most people. The only thing he can do now that other champs can't do better is provide a nice synergy for Ghost.
What did you use him for particularly?
What nodes, what champs? Everyone’s statements are so generic , but not giving me real answers.
Amazing Buff Control when it is needed, a reliable miss mechanic against projectiles. Stun immunity and some decent Power Control.
Are those the answers you were looking for? Despite many real answers in this thread being there.
The issue is , you see what happens to amazing champs that were once mediocre Mole Man , Torch etc. these champs had workable kits so a value update made it possible to bring them to the top.
Even if you gave Hood 100% damage it would make him a below average champ, even with Stryfe and boost he was below average. The reason is he did not have a kit to work with bleed , shock, hex, those really weren’t doing anything for him.
The fate seal seems more important than it is because his staggers would sometimes not apply for an entire combo. He now also has much more use outside of specific matchups , most matches needed staggers not fate sale as opposed to the vision AA match. While I do understand people’s frustration, I think they now on paper get much more out of their champ instead of just one piece of utility.
Torch was a utility beast against mystic but struggled outside of every single match that’s because he was not tuned right , once tuned he shines all over. Hood doesn’t have that privilege , he now has utility that allows him to keep up his damage and bonuses if he nullifies buffs.
I talked to a lot of people and when I ask them what did they use hood for particularly , they can’t really give me a straight answer.
Magneto lost his Ability to rank SP3s, which was valuable to me, he also lost his heal block that came in clutch for me at times.
Old man Logan- Regen Passive became a buff ( R5 before update)
These affected me, but magneto is a much better character then he was so is OML.
Balances are apart of game , and Kabam has always been fair if these balances were unfavorable. We can’t decide that yet until Monday. On paper he looks good , but we won’t know until Monday.
Gonna just ignore Cats post giving you specific scenarios? You’re also seemingly ignoring the dangerous precedent this sets with future ‘buffs’
See my response to cats post , I didn’t ignore it.
I do think it goes both ways though, someone will always be affected, either that or the game dies.
And what happens when the next ‘buff’ Removes Ronans stun lock? Or Loki’s buff steal? Or gladiator Hulks ‘face me’?
We need to make our voices heard now rather than when it affects a champion we personally have invested in. It could be too late for Hoods fate seal, but it might not be for other champions in line for a buff.
How many buffs have we had in the game so far? I have a R2 hood BTW.
29 buffs so far , out of the 29 buffs I can name about 7 that have dominated the Meta. Of course there will be changes that are unfavorable, can you really sit here and see these champs haven’t been great for the game? Objectively you cannot.
Colly Magneto She hulk Venom Red hulk Carnage Mole man Kingpin Falcon
These were champs that were once a bust when you pull them, now they are favorites of many people.
Practically none of those champs were used by anyone for anything prior to being changed either. None of them were members of any widely used team even just as synergy pieces to only even rarely be actually used either. Also, none of them actually lost anything in their updates either. The only even somewhat notable piece would be mags sp3 tank which you already addressed. Find me a single person that ranked and used magneto for that ability and I'd be mightily impressed.
I can’t confirm that and neither can you. But, if that is true they based it off their data , Hoods data must have shown something similar, or else he would not be getting a tune up.
I can only speak subjectively, I do know Hood was always considered underrated, but he doesn’t have any core damage mechanics to make him a reasonable option anywhere. If we are discussing mid game players , there are many 4* that can do a better job than Hood can. Now when we get into act 6 someone mentioned a 6.4.6 mystic path that I just reviewed , but will test soon.
I took Hood to r4 specifically for the Vigorous assault, arc overload path in 6.1.6 a few days ago. No amount of staggers will help you there unless you're an intercept god. I'm not so I ranked him up and he cleared the entire path with only a few health potions in between fights for safety. That fate seal, AAR and ability to refresh everything is more useful than you think if you know how to use him. All the champions I take to r4 are done to serve very specific purposes: AA for AAR, Vodoo for power control, Guilly for damage, immunities and other things, Void for heal reversal and now Hood for buff control which he does well enough. His current update makes him useless. I have Hype, AA and a 6* CapIW, Hood is the last champion I would rank up for damage.
Thank you for sharing that. I think it’s important to slow all ranges of player and how this may affect them. But why wouldn’t you use your doctor voodoo who is clearly the better option? If he is in war I can understand, but wouldn’t he nullify the regen? If the armor up is at the start of the fight then I can see how that affected you. Thanks for that solid example
Voodoo's chance of nullifying buffs is 50% and you need special attacks to do that. With Brother Daniel on you, it increases to 150% Sure you can place brother Daniel on them for AAR but it's just 50% They will still proc buffs and you lose your increased ability accuracy which means that you can reach 2 bars of power without procing a single loa (Happens to me all the time) You're also forgetting the hurtlocker node so you can't just pop a mystic power boost and spam sp1. But the biggest roadblock against Voodoo is that they all proc tons of buffs. Wolvie and X-23 proc buffs when you hit them, Groot has mystic ward. Voodoo couldn't bypass it, Hood's fate seal does. Angie procs also many buffs that you might not nullify the one you want and the more you hit her, the more resilience counters she gets so she will practically have 100% uptime on regen and unblockable the entire fight. This kind of tricky situation is where Hood shines, arguably better than any other mystic and that is why I ranked him also.
On another note, he was useful for the Psycho man final boss in UC eq while my Medusa was in war. I just put fate seal on him and stop worrying about him going unblockable if I mistakenly hit his block.
Really good explanation seriously. I only asked for concrete examples of how this effects people and this is the first example I got, now I can actually test this path and see how bad it is.
With 5 sec staggers he can steal opponents health faster than old hood with 7.5 seconds, with new hood you can recover some block damage faster when staggers expires
If that’s a net positive then why not make it 0.1 seconds, and Hood will be a regen god.
Or maybe, it’s a net negative, and people would rather a good buff control champion, yknow, what Hood was designed for.
Heh so why not make that staggers last 1 hour longer and he dont even need fateseal from sp 2 xD
Still can’t deal with permanent buffs. Every good nullify champ has a way to deal with both permanent and temporary buffs. There is not a single good buff control champ who only has staggers
Tigra has neutralize it’s a very effective form of buff control.
Neutralize is not quite as good as fate seal, but much better than stagger. Fate seal prevents buffs and also removes them. Neutralize just prevents them. But unlike stagger, neutralize doesn't get removed when a buff is prevented. Neutralize can prevent an unlimited number of buffs from being activated so long as it is up. Stagger can only prevent a single instance of buffs being activated (it can prevent multiple buffs but only if they all activate simultaneously).
Unless you can apply them very fast, stagger can't in general deal effectively with things like Aggression nodes that apply buffs. Neutralize can. The only champs that can even begin to approach neutralize's effects with stagger are the champs that can stack stagger. Hood is not one of those champs.
Note also that Tigra inflicts Neutralize on every single attack. If Hood applied staggers on every single hit and they stacked, Hood would have similar buff control to Tigra (neutralize doesn't need to stack, because as mentioned it doesn't get removed when it prevents a buff, whereas stagger does).
With 5 sec staggers he can steal opponents health faster than old hood with 7.5 seconds, with new hood you can recover some block damage faster when staggers expires
If that’s a net positive then why not make it 0.1 seconds, and Hood will be a regen god.
Or maybe, it’s a net negative, and people would rather a good buff control champion, yknow, what Hood was designed for.
Heh so why not make that staggers last 1 hour longer and he dont even need fateseal from sp 2 xD
Still can’t deal with permanent buffs. Every good nullify champ has a way to deal with both permanent and temporary buffs. There is not a single good buff control champ who only has staggers
Tigra has neutralize it’s a very effective form of buff control.
Neutralize is not quite as good as fate seal, but much better than stagger. Fate seal prevents buffs and also removes them. Neutralize just prevents them. But unlike stagger, neutralize doesn't get removed when a buff is prevented. Neutralize can prevent an unlimited number of buffs from being activated so long as it is up. Stagger can only prevent a single instance of buffs being activated (it can prevent multiple buffs but only if they all activate simultaneously).
Unless you can apply them very fast, stagger can't in general deal effectively with things like Aggression nodes that apply buffs. Neutralize can. The only champs that can even begin to approach neutralize's effects with stagger are the champs that can stack stagger. Hood is not one of those champs.
Note also that Tigra inflicts Neutralize on every single attack. If Hood applied staggers on every single hit and they stacked, Hood would have similar buff control to Tigra (neutralize doesn't need to stack, because as mentioned it doesn't get removed when it prevents a buff, whereas stagger does).
Very good points. We still don’t know how hood will turn out. Just curious, you always seem to follow the data and are as objective as it comes. What do you think Kabam is looking at that determined he needs a buff. If he was used as much as people are saying then they should be able to tell. If they are only looking at damage that’s a little different.
Before we started this entire buff process Kabam was pretty straightforward on what they will be doing, they must have seen something removing his fate seal they already said he would be too powerful. Hood was not fine, he needed the moderate update, do you suggest they tone all he new abilities down( then have people complain about how he is still a noodle)
“ But balance means both directions, up and down, otherwise, we run a serious risk of just increasing Champion power forever, which in turn creates a situation where it’s very tempting to create content for only the latest and greatest Champions, leaving the rest of the roster on the bench.
“We know that investing in a new Champion is a big deal, and having some Game Designer come along and change it on you can really hurt. So while it will occasionally be necessary, we’re going to try and avoid it where we can, not going to rush anything, and we’ll make sure we account for the effort you’ve put in to chase and rank up your Champions.
Looking to Add Value to Underperforming Champions. Champion Update Strike team to focus just on this. Nerfs will occasionally be necessary. Primary goal is to buff Up the bottom end of the roster before any potential nerfs.”
As for the stagger chance being increased from 88% to 100%, remember that this is only on critical hits and the staggers do not stack. Along with that, their timer has been decreased from 7.5 seconds to 5 seconds and you can no longer refresh off heavy, making them less reliable for buff control.
Most of the time my math is at best light calculation. This time, it is actually for-real math. Fair warning.
One way to judge the staggers is to ask what are the odds of refreshing them before they expire. This depends on the odds of landing a stagger per attack and the duration of the stagger. You have until the duration expires to land another one. Let's call the amount of attacks you can launch during Hood2.0's stagger duration (5s) X. As an approximate estimate, we can say that if you can fire off X attacks in 5 seconds, you can probably fire off about 1.5X attacks in 7.5s, the duration of Hood1.0's staggers.
If the chance to trigger a stagger is S, then the odds of not triggering a stagger after K attacks is (1-S)^K. We know the odds of Hood1.0 triggering a stagger is 88% when landing a crit, and the base crit chance of Hood1.0 is 23%. So we get the chance to trigger stagger as 0.23 * 0.88 = 0.2024.
For Hood2.0 to have the same chance to refresh stagger before it expires, we need (1-0.2024) ^ (1.5X) = (1-H) ^ X where H is Hood2.0's critical chance. If H is less than 0.23, then Hood2.0 has better uptime for his staggers, and if H is greater than 0.23 then Hood2.0 has worse uptime for his staggers, and we also know how much higher his crit rate would have to be to match Hood1.0's stagger uptime. Solving we get 1.5X ln(0.7976) = X ln(1-H). We can divide out X (which means this relationship doesn't depend on how fast the player attacks and is instead an intrinsic relationship between the two ability's designs) and get 1.5 ln(0.7976) = ln(1-H). (1-H) = 0.7123; H = 0.2877.
Therefore, Hood2.0's stagger will be harder to maintain with the higher trigger rate and lower duration. If the trigger rate (i.e. critical rate) was increased to 0.2877 (28.77%), then Hood2.0's stagger uptime would equal Hood1.0's stagger uptime. That doesn't mean they would be identical in effect, it just means Hood2.0 would catch up to Hood1.0 in this one specific property.
I think this is intentional, as previously the stagger had a high chance to get refreshed, so you would lose damage and life steal. They sacrificed his capacity to control buffs for more damage and sustainability. They just didn't realise the reloading of hex bullets is dependent on nullifying buffs. So the damage you lose for not applying hexes is far greater than the damage you get from expiring staggers. This is a design flaw of epic proportions.
Comments
One way to judge the staggers is to ask what are the odds of refreshing them before they expire. This depends on the odds of landing a stagger per attack and the duration of the stagger. You have until the duration expires to land another one. Let's call the amount of attacks you can launch during Hood2.0's stagger duration (5s) X. As an approximate estimate, we can say that if you can fire off X attacks in 5 seconds, you can probably fire off about 1.5X attacks in 7.5s, the duration of Hood1.0's staggers.
If the chance to trigger a stagger is S, then the odds of not triggering a stagger after K attacks is (1-S)^K. We know the odds of Hood1.0 triggering a stagger is 88% when landing a crit, and the base crit chance of Hood1.0 is 23%. So we get the chance to trigger stagger as 0.23 * 0.88 = 0.2024.
For Hood2.0 to have the same chance to refresh stagger before it expires, we need (1-0.2024) ^ (1.5X) = (1-H) ^ X where H is Hood2.0's critical chance. If H is less than 0.23, then Hood2.0 has better uptime for his staggers, and if H is greater than 0.23 then Hood2.0 has worse uptime for his staggers, and we also know how much higher his crit rate would have to be to match Hood1.0's stagger uptime. Solving we get 1.5X ln(0.7976) = X ln(1-H). We can divide out X (which means this relationship doesn't depend on how fast the player attacks and is instead an intrinsic relationship between the two ability's designs) and get 1.5 ln(0.7976) = ln(1-H). (1-H) = 0.7123; H = 0.2877.
Therefore, Hood2.0's stagger will be harder to maintain with the higher trigger rate and lower duration. If the trigger rate (i.e. critical rate) was increased to 0.2877 (28.77%), then Hood2.0's stagger uptime would equal Hood1.0's stagger uptime. That doesn't mean they would be identical in effect, it just means Hood2.0 would catch up to Hood1.0 in this one specific property.
Kabam starts listening when a big creator like Seatin makes a video about a certain issue
Literally any buff, cause with his staggers he also regens if they expire and with the fate seal, he stops any buffs basically and reduces opppnent AAR.
All the champions I take to r4 are done to serve very specific purposes: AA for AAR, Vodoo for power control, Guilly for damage, immunities and other things, Void for heal reversal and now Hood for buff control which he does well enough. His current update makes him useless. I have Hype, AA and a 6* CapIW, Hood is the last champion I would rank up for damage.
Or maybe, it’s a net negative, and people would rather a good buff control champion, yknow, what Hood was designed for.
But the biggest roadblock against Voodoo is that they all proc tons of buffs. Wolvie and X-23 proc buffs when you hit them, Groot has mystic ward. Voodoo couldn't bypass it, Hood's fate seal does. Angie procs also many buffs that you might not nullify the one you want and the more you hit her, the more resilience counters she gets so she will practically have 100% uptime on regen and unblockable the entire fight.
This kind of tricky situation is where Hood shines, arguably better than any other mystic and that is why I ranked him also.
On another note, he was useful for the Psycho man final boss in UC eq while my Medusa was in war. I just put fate seal on him and stop worrying about him going unblockable if I mistakenly hit his block.
Unless you can apply them very fast, stagger can't in general deal effectively with things like Aggression nodes that apply buffs. Neutralize can. The only champs that can even begin to approach neutralize's effects with stagger are the champs that can stack stagger. Hood is not one of those champs.
Note also that Tigra inflicts Neutralize on every single attack. If Hood applied staggers on every single hit and they stacked, Hood would have similar buff control to Tigra (neutralize doesn't need to stack, because as mentioned it doesn't get removed when it prevents a buff, whereas stagger does).
Before we started this entire buff process Kabam was pretty straightforward on what they will be doing, they must have seen something removing his fate seal they already said he would be too powerful. Hood was not fine, he needed the moderate update, do you suggest they tone all he new abilities down( then have people complain about how he is still a noodle)
“ But balance means both directions, up and down, otherwise, we run a serious risk of just increasing Champion power forever, which in turn creates a situation where it’s very tempting to create content for only the latest and greatest Champions, leaving the rest of the roster on the bench.
“We know that investing in a new Champion is a big deal, and having some Game Designer come along and change it on you can really hurt. So while it will occasionally be necessary, we’re going to try and avoid it where we can, not going to rush anything, and we’ll make sure we account for the effort you’ve put in to chase and rank up your Champions.
Looking to Add Value to Underperforming Champions.
Champion Update Strike team to focus just on this.
Nerfs will occasionally be necessary.
Primary goal is to buff Up the bottom end of the roster before any potential nerfs.”
I think this is intentional, as previously the stagger had a high chance to get refreshed, so you would lose damage and life steal. They sacrificed his capacity to control buffs for more damage and sustainability. They just didn't realise the reloading of hex bullets is dependent on nullifying buffs. So the damage you lose for not applying hexes is far greater than the damage you get from expiring staggers. This is a design flaw of epic proportions.