Hood Changes - Discussion [Merged Threads]

Texas_11

Terra said:

Texas_11 said:

For Namor, people received an email with rank down variations for each clsss (4*-6* for one rank down at each level) that was only good for Namor. And those tickets expired after 1 week.

So people can try the new version and if they like him, they do nothing. And if people do not like him, they can rank him down.

Just a one week grace period is all that’s needed , I’m curious to see who would actually rank him down, excluding those who took him to R2 , but realized they can get some resources back.

Personally I'd prefer them not touching Hood at all compared to getting RDTs.

I would prefer they do. Hood is not a viable champ for me.

Texas_11

Terra said:

Aleor said:

Terra said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Here's a question. If it wasn't for The Champion in 6.2, would people be as bothered?

Of course they would be.
Hood is (or well, was) used in plenty of other areas where his utility was needed.
This has nothing to do with The Champion, it's just about them "buffing" someone that didn't need it just because they have a outdated way of checking usage data on champions

I believe most of people who use hood will agree be needs a buff. A buff to increase his dps. None of them will ask to nerf his utility. If it would've be smth with his sp1 changed, like sp1 for damage, sp2 as it is, people would be quite happy. But the person who came up with proposed changes probably thought he's smbd like og black panther, who needs a rework. When actually hood only required little adjustment here and there

Hood only needed a small damage bump. NOTHING else. He was one of the last champs in actual need of a rework

You have to be kidding me? He had a 50% increase from Stryfe and still was below average. He needed a moderate re work.

That’s like saying Dr. Strange doesn’t need a damage update , or ghost rider doesn’t need a moderate update. Of course they do.

DNA3000

Texas_11 said:

1.) But is that not the case with all the reworks? Civil warrior lost his ability accuracy and massacre can’t apply disorient as much as he use to. I don’t hear any complaints. What if Khamala khan loses her stagger(!Swedeah) how many threads are we going to have like this ? She needs a buff, so did hood

Way back at the start of the thread (at least in my first post in it) I stated that this is a matter of degree, not a binary thing. Every champion update modifies some things, and takes some things away. The question is where should the line be. Preserving player investment has some value to the game, so that should be reflected in the game changes. But if we make that the only absolute priority the devs couldn't change anything, which would be bad for the game.

But even if we don't have general agreement yet where the line is, we should at least be starting the conversation of whether there should be a line at all. Hood is a good test case for that discussion, because it is a very unambiguous change. Hood did have an unambiguous core set of use cases, and it did have a passionate group of players using him in those cases, and the update changes unambiguously removed key elements of the abilities that address those use cases. If there's a line at all, I think the Hood changes should definitely be over that line. Conversely, if Hood is not over the line, I don't think anything is safe.

Terra

Texas_11 said:

Terra said:

Aleor said:

Terra said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Here's a question. If it wasn't for The Champion in 6.2, would people be as bothered?

Of course they would be.
Hood is (or well, was) used in plenty of other areas where his utility was needed.
This has nothing to do with The Champion, it's just about them "buffing" someone that didn't need it just because they have a outdated way of checking usage data on champions

I believe most of people who use hood will agree be needs a buff. A buff to increase his dps. None of them will ask to nerf his utility. If it would've be smth with his sp1 changed, like sp1 for damage, sp2 as it is, people would be quite happy. But the person who came up with proposed changes probably thought he's smbd like og black panther, who needs a rework. When actually hood only required little adjustment here and there

Hood only needed a small damage bump. NOTHING else. He was one of the last champs in actual need of a rework

You have to be kidding me? He had a 50% increase from Stryfe and still was below average. He needed a moderate re work.

That’s like saying Dr. Strange doesn’t need a damage update , or ghost rider doesn’t need a moderate update. Of course they do.

A moderate rework in damage, sure.
But this? This is a disservice to what Hood stood and was used for within the game.
Taking away what made him unique and fun to play for more damage (which, if you want that you could look to other boring Meta champs like Doom or BWCV) doesn't make this right.
This buff is wrong. Terrible.

GroundedWisdom

Texas_11 said:

Terra said:

Aleor said:

Terra said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Here's a question. If it wasn't for The Champion in 6.2, would people be as bothered?

Of course they would be.
Hood is (or well, was) used in plenty of other areas where his utility was needed.
This has nothing to do with The Champion, it's just about them "buffing" someone that didn't need it just because they have a outdated way of checking usage data on champions

I believe most of people who use hood will agree be needs a buff. A buff to increase his dps. None of them will ask to nerf his utility. If it would've be smth with his sp1 changed, like sp1 for damage, sp2 as it is, people would be quite happy. But the person who came up with proposed changes probably thought he's smbd like og black panther, who needs a rework. When actually hood only required little adjustment here and there

Hood only needed a small damage bump. NOTHING else. He was one of the last champs in actual need of a rework

You have to be kidding me? He had a 50% increase from Stryfe and still was below average. He needed a moderate re work.

That’s like saying Dr. Strange doesn’t need a damage update , or ghost rider doesn’t need a moderate update. Of course they do.

Kind of lost me on GR. He's still a dependable utility Champ.

ThatGuyYouSaw235

Texas_11 said:

Terra said:

Texas_11 said:

For Namor, people received an email with rank down variations for each clsss (4*-6* for one rank down at each level) that was only good for Namor. And those tickets expired after 1 week.

So people can try the new version and if they like him, they do nothing. And if people do not like him, they can rank him down.

Just a one week grace period is all that’s needed , I’m curious to see who would actually rank him down, excluding those who took him to R2 , but realized they can get some resources back.

Personally I'd prefer them not touching Hood at all compared to getting RDTs.

I would prefer they do. Hood is not a viable champ for me.

I agree, but the approach they took was one of the worst

Terra

GroundedWisdom said:

Texas_11 said:

Terra said:

Aleor said:

Terra said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Here's a question. If it wasn't for The Champion in 6.2, would people be as bothered?

Of course they would be.
Hood is (or well, was) used in plenty of other areas where his utility was needed.
This has nothing to do with The Champion, it's just about them "buffing" someone that didn't need it just because they have a outdated way of checking usage data on champions

I believe most of people who use hood will agree be needs a buff. A buff to increase his dps. None of them will ask to nerf his utility. If it would've be smth with his sp1 changed, like sp1 for damage, sp2 as it is, people would be quite happy. But the person who came up with proposed changes probably thought he's smbd like og black panther, who needs a rework. When actually hood only required little adjustment here and there

Hood only needed a small damage bump. NOTHING else. He was one of the last champs in actual need of a rework

You have to be kidding me? He had a 50% increase from Stryfe and still was below average. He needed a moderate re work.

That’s like saying Dr. Strange doesn’t need a damage update , or ghost rider doesn’t need a moderate update. Of course they do.

Kind of lost me on GR. He's still a dependable utility Champ.

Tad bit too rng based without synergies imo. He's still solid though

Texas_11

DNA3000 said:

Texas_11 said:

1.) But is that not the case with all the reworks? Civil warrior lost his ability accuracy and massacre can’t apply disorient as much as he use to. I don’t hear any complaints. What if Khamala khan loses her stagger(!Swedeah) how many threads are we going to have like this ? She needs a buff, so did hood

Way back at the start of the thread (at least in my first post in it) I stated that this is a matter of degree, not a binary thing. Every champion update modifies some things, and takes some things away. The question is where should the line be. Preserving player investment has some value to the game, so that should be reflected in the game changes. But if we make that the only absolute priority the devs couldn't change anything, which would be bad for the game.

But even if we don't have general agreement yet where the line is, we should at least be starting the conversation of whether there should be a line at all. Hood is a good test case for that discussion, because it is a very unambiguous change. Hood did have an unambiguous core set of use cases, and it did have a passionate group of players using him in those cases, and the update changes unambiguously removed key elements of the abilities that address those use cases. If there's a line at all, I think the Hood changes should definitely be over that line. Conversely, if Hood is not over the line, I don't think anything is safe.

Maybe we can pick this up tomorrow, after the update . I have all my prelim testing done , and will be upfront if the changes were nice or if they were bad. I may very well be be asking you “do you have light “ tomorrow for my torch. But I think the conversation really should be “ Is this character better than the what he was yesterday “ there is a subjective answer to that and there will be a quantitative one we won’t have. I personally don’t think Hood is over the line. Scarlet witch , Doctor Strange , Og Thor , this Is over thre line . Starlord is the line I think. But Kabam will be the ones to decide what that line is.

I’ll check back tomorrow. Have a good evening

Texas_11

GroundedWisdom said:

Texas_11 said:

Terra said:

Aleor said:

Terra said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Here's a question. If it wasn't for The Champion in 6.2, would people be as bothered?

Of course they would be.
Hood is (or well, was) used in plenty of other areas where his utility was needed.
This has nothing to do with The Champion, it's just about them "buffing" someone that didn't need it just because they have a outdated way of checking usage data on champions

I believe most of people who use hood will agree be needs a buff. A buff to increase his dps. None of them will ask to nerf his utility. If it would've be smth with his sp1 changed, like sp1 for damage, sp2 as it is, people would be quite happy. But the person who came up with proposed changes probably thought he's smbd like og black panther, who needs a rework. When actually hood only required little adjustment here and there

Hood only needed a small damage bump. NOTHING else. He was one of the last champs in actual need of a rework

You have to be kidding me? He had a 50% increase from Stryfe and still was below average. He needed a moderate re work.

That’s like saying Dr. Strange doesn’t need a damage update , or ghost rider doesn’t need a moderate update. Of course they do.

Kind of lost me on GR. He's still a dependable utility Champ.

He is dependable, but he needs a number tweaks. I can be stuck in fights with him for 3-4 mins

DNA3000

Texas_11 said:

5.) Yes they had to change his mechanics because he really didn’t have a mechanic or a way to increase his damage. No it wasn’t mandated to do that, but it was done to make him more rewarding to play. They said his stagger and fate seal would have made him the most powerful mystic in the game that’s not their intention it’s only to Bring his damage to respectable levels.

The devs claim that Hood's miss mechanic is better. I'm not sure I agree, but let's discuss what the devs believe, not what is. If they believe Hood's miss mechanic is better with the update, then Hood would be weaker if they had not touched it. And the bulk of Hood's increased damage comes from the Hex/bullet mechanics. Neither the Miss mechanics nor the Hex bullet mechanics are directly connected to Fate Seal or the original Stagger mechanics.

The devs are saying that with all of the new additions Hood would be too strong so they had to eliminate Fate Seal. But the trivially obvious alternative was to first leave Miss alone (because according to the devs, that's an improvement). This would reduce Hood's overall strength. And if that was not enough, they could then reduce Hex damage until Hood's overall value was where they wanted it to be. If Hood without it is too weak, and Hood with it is too strong, there must be a middle ground value for the Hex damage that places Hood within balance limits. And it probably doesn't have to be a lot of reduction, because leaving Miss along already reduces Hood's value significantly (according to the devs own statements).

The only other possibility that is consistent with the facts is the devs felt that Hood was already too strong with his buff control, so that had to be nerfed independently of adding more damage. But that seems extremely unlikely to be true. And if this were true, it would be illogical for the devs to make changes that they claim improve Hood's stagger capabilities. That's nonsensical.

GroundedWisdom

Texas_11 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Texas_11 said:

Terra said:

Aleor said:

Terra said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Here's a question. If it wasn't for The Champion in 6.2, would people be as bothered?

Of course they would be.
Hood is (or well, was) used in plenty of other areas where his utility was needed.
This has nothing to do with The Champion, it's just about them "buffing" someone that didn't need it just because they have a outdated way of checking usage data on champions

I believe most of people who use hood will agree be needs a buff. A buff to increase his dps. None of them will ask to nerf his utility. If it would've be smth with his sp1 changed, like sp1 for damage, sp2 as it is, people would be quite happy. But the person who came up with proposed changes probably thought he's smbd like og black panther, who needs a rework. When actually hood only required little adjustment here and there

Hood only needed a small damage bump. NOTHING else. He was one of the last champs in actual need of a rework

You have to be kidding me? He had a 50% increase from Stryfe and still was below average. He needed a moderate re work.

That’s like saying Dr. Strange doesn’t need a damage update , or ghost rider doesn’t need a moderate update. Of course they do.

Kind of lost me on GR. He's still a dependable utility Champ.

He is dependable, but he needs a number tweaks. I can be stuck in fights with him for 3-4 mins

There's more of a measure than just War. He's all-round useful if you're cycling your Judgments properly.

Texas_11

GroundedWisdom said:

Texas_11 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Texas_11 said:

Terra said:

Aleor said:

Terra said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Here's a question. If it wasn't for The Champion in 6.2, would people be as bothered?

Of course they would be.
Hood is (or well, was) used in plenty of other areas where his utility was needed.
This has nothing to do with The Champion, it's just about them "buffing" someone that didn't need it just because they have a outdated way of checking usage data on champions

I believe most of people who use hood will agree be needs a buff. A buff to increase his dps. None of them will ask to nerf his utility. If it would've be smth with his sp1 changed, like sp1 for damage, sp2 as it is, people would be quite happy. But the person who came up with proposed changes probably thought he's smbd like og black panther, who needs a rework. When actually hood only required little adjustment here and there

Hood only needed a small damage bump. NOTHING else. He was one of the last champs in actual need of a rework

You have to be kidding me? He had a 50% increase from Stryfe and still was below average. He needed a moderate re work.

That’s like saying Dr. Strange doesn’t need a damage update , or ghost rider doesn’t need a moderate update. Of course they do.

Kind of lost me on GR. He's still a dependable utility Champ.

He is dependable, but he needs a number tweaks. I can be stuck in fights with him for 3-4 mins

There's more of a measure than just War. He's all-round useful if you're cycling your Judgments properly.

I play gold 3 / silver wars. He is useful, just like hood is useful. I’m not arguing anything but his damage.

GroundedWisdom

Texas_11 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Texas_11 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Texas_11 said:

Terra said:

Aleor said:

Terra said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Here's a question. If it wasn't for The Champion in 6.2, would people be as bothered?

Of course they would be.
Hood is (or well, was) used in plenty of other areas where his utility was needed.
This has nothing to do with The Champion, it's just about them "buffing" someone that didn't need it just because they have a outdated way of checking usage data on champions

I believe most of people who use hood will agree be needs a buff. A buff to increase his dps. None of them will ask to nerf his utility. If it would've be smth with his sp1 changed, like sp1 for damage, sp2 as it is, people would be quite happy. But the person who came up with proposed changes probably thought he's smbd like og black panther, who needs a rework. When actually hood only required little adjustment here and there

Hood only needed a small damage bump. NOTHING else. He was one of the last champs in actual need of a rework

You have to be kidding me? He had a 50% increase from Stryfe and still was below average. He needed a moderate re work.

That’s like saying Dr. Strange doesn’t need a damage update , or ghost rider doesn’t need a moderate update. Of course they do.

Kind of lost me on GR. He's still a dependable utility Champ.

He is dependable, but he needs a number tweaks. I can be stuck in fights with him for 3-4 mins

There's more of a measure than just War. He's all-round useful if you're cycling your Judgments properly.

I play gold 1/ silver wars. He is useful, just like hood is useful. I’m not arguing anything but his damage.

No, I get that. I'm just pointing out that Damage and Utility are not necessarily combinable. I mentioned War because you referenced the time. Some Fights take much longer than 3 or 4 minutes, depending on what you're doing.

Terra

GroundedWisdom said:

Texas_11 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Texas_11 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Texas_11 said:

Terra said:

Aleor said:

Terra said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Here's a question. If it wasn't for The Champion in 6.2, would people be as bothered?

Of course they would be.
Hood is (or well, was) used in plenty of other areas where his utility was needed.
This has nothing to do with The Champion, it's just about them "buffing" someone that didn't need it just because they have a outdated way of checking usage data on champions

I believe most of people who use hood will agree be needs a buff. A buff to increase his dps. None of them will ask to nerf his utility. If it would've be smth with his sp1 changed, like sp1 for damage, sp2 as it is, people would be quite happy. But the person who came up with proposed changes probably thought he's smbd like og black panther, who needs a rework. When actually hood only required little adjustment here and there

Hood only needed a small damage bump. NOTHING else. He was one of the last champs in actual need of a rework

You have to be kidding me? He had a 50% increase from Stryfe and still was below average. He needed a moderate re work.

That’s like saying Dr. Strange doesn’t need a damage update , or ghost rider doesn’t need a moderate update. Of course they do.

Kind of lost me on GR. He's still a dependable utility Champ.

He is dependable, but he needs a number tweaks. I can be stuck in fights with him for 3-4 mins

There's more of a measure than just War. He's all-round useful if you're cycling your Judgments properly.

I play gold 1/ silver wars. He is useful, just like hood is useful. I’m not arguing anything but his damage.

No, I get that. I'm just pointing out that Damage and Utility are not necessarily combinable. I mentioned War because you referenced the time. Some Fights take much longer than 3 or 4 minutes, depending on what you're doing.

There are champs that combine both Damage and Utility so that rings a bit hollow.
Can't see why they didn't just give Hood a damage bump instead of this mess of a rework no one asked for.

DNA3000

GroundedWisdom said:

Here's a question. If it wasn't for The Champion in 6.2, would people be as bothered?

I can only say I was bothered the moment I had a moment to consider the changes, before I knew how anyone else felt about them. That was amplified a lot when I listened to other people's impressions about how the changes would directly impact their game play. As soon as I became aware of Cat Murdock's objections and had an opportunity to consider her arguments, that was enough for me to draw a conclusion.

Agresssor said:

I'm 100% sure that if I now create a topic about magneto and old man logano with 9 pages of explanations, they won't support me like here with 500 messages, maybe just 5-10 people who ranked them before the buff.

if a lot of people hadn't ranked the hood to 5 and 3 ranks for some reason even before the buff, there wouldn't be so many posts in this thread today, it turns out that everyone thinks about their own skin, the majority wins the minority

here the logic is, someone will be happy when he finds out that they are buffing the average character since he has it in the 6 * version
and someone else who does not have 6 * of the average character who is buffing, will tell why him? he is already an average character, why not the weaker character like groot , and especially since I have him 6 *?
But they wouldn't say that if they had 6 * of the average character who getting a buff and despite the fact that he is already an average not the weakest

1. The people actively using Hood are a minority. I'm pretty sure the devs know this.

2. Not everyone who has expressed concerned is looking out for their own skin. For example, the Hood changes are unlikely to hurt me much: my roster is sizeable and I have multiple answers to almost any fight, and I haven't invested resources to rank Hood up higher than r4. The changes are not going to cost me anything. I've explained why I care several times now, and it isn't because the change is going to hurt me specifically. In the grand scheme of things, changes like this are far more likely to help me than hurt me.

3. You should consider that one difference between you and the player who wrote nine pages of analysis on Hood is that player cared enough to write nine pages of analysis on a change they have every reason to believe will not get reversed. They had every reason to believe their objections would be overlooked as well, but they were motivated to lodge them nevertheless. Passion does not equal credibility, but those nine pages contain careful research and analysis, not just whining. And objective analysis still counts for something, at least for some people.

GroundedWisdom

Terra said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Texas_11 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Texas_11 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Texas_11 said:

Terra said:

Aleor said:

Terra said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Here's a question. If it wasn't for The Champion in 6.2, would people be as bothered?

Of course they would be.
Hood is (or well, was) used in plenty of other areas where his utility was needed.
This has nothing to do with The Champion, it's just about them "buffing" someone that didn't need it just because they have a outdated way of checking usage data on champions

I believe most of people who use hood will agree be needs a buff. A buff to increase his dps. None of them will ask to nerf his utility. If it would've be smth with his sp1 changed, like sp1 for damage, sp2 as it is, people would be quite happy. But the person who came up with proposed changes probably thought he's smbd like og black panther, who needs a rework. When actually hood only required little adjustment here and there

Hood only needed a small damage bump. NOTHING else. He was one of the last champs in actual need of a rework

You have to be kidding me? He had a 50% increase from Stryfe and still was below average. He needed a moderate re work.

That’s like saying Dr. Strange doesn’t need a damage update , or ghost rider doesn’t need a moderate update. Of course they do.

Kind of lost me on GR. He's still a dependable utility Champ.

He is dependable, but he needs a number tweaks. I can be stuck in fights with him for 3-4 mins

There's more of a measure than just War. He's all-round useful if you're cycling your Judgments properly.

I play gold 1/ silver wars. He is useful, just like hood is useful. I’m not arguing anything but his damage.

No, I get that. I'm just pointing out that Damage and Utility are not necessarily combinable. I mentioned War because you referenced the time. Some Fights take much longer than 3 or 4 minutes, depending on what you're doing.

There are champs that combine both Damage and Utility so that rings a bit hollow.
Can't see why they didn't just give Hood a damage bump instead of this mess of a rework no one asked for.

There are some, but not all. Nor is that the goal from what I understand of these reworks. For as long as I can remember, they've been clear that there will be a range concerning Champs. Different strengths, different weaknesses. There will always be a "top", and a "bottom". The purpose of these reworks isn't to make all Champs on par with the top, or good at both Damage and Utility. It's to bring them up to speed within the current atmosphere and narrow the gap, so-to-speak. So there may be some that combine both, but that's not necessarily the goal from what I see.

GroundedWisdom

zeezee57 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Texas_11 said:

Terra said:

Aleor said:

Terra said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Here's a question. If it wasn't for The Champion in 6.2, would people be as bothered?

Of course they would be.
Hood is (or well, was) used in plenty of other areas where his utility was needed.
This has nothing to do with The Champion, it's just about them "buffing" someone that didn't need it just because they have a outdated way of checking usage data on champions

I believe most of people who use hood will agree be needs a buff. A buff to increase his dps. None of them will ask to nerf his utility. If it would've be smth with his sp1 changed, like sp1 for damage, sp2 as it is, people would be quite happy. But the person who came up with proposed changes probably thought he's smbd like og black panther, who needs a rework. When actually hood only required little adjustment here and there

Hood only needed a small damage bump. NOTHING else. He was one of the last champs in actual need of a rework

You have to be kidding me? He had a 50% increase from Stryfe and still was below average. He needed a moderate re work.

That’s like saying Dr. Strange doesn’t need a damage update , or ghost rider doesn’t need a moderate update. Of course they do.

Kind of lost me on GR. He's still a dependable utility Champ.

A less dependable utility champ than Hood is, would you like a GR rework that gives him some extra damage with the removal of his better utility? Exactly.

I haven't said either way whether I'm for or against Hood. I haven't seen the game play yet.

GroundedWisdom

DNA3000 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Here's a question. If it wasn't for The Champion in 6.2, would people be as bothered?

I can only say I was bothered the moment I had a moment to consider the changes, before I knew how anyone else felt about them. That was amplified a lot when I listened to other people's impressions about how the changes would directly impact their game play. As soon as I became aware of Cat Murdock's objections and had an opportunity to consider her arguments, that was enough for me to draw a conclusion.

Agresssor said:

I'm 100% sure that if I now create a topic about magneto and old man logano with 9 pages of explanations, they won't support me like here with 500 messages, maybe just 5-10 people who ranked them before the buff.

if a lot of people hadn't ranked the hood to 5 and 3 ranks for some reason even before the buff, there wouldn't be so many posts in this thread today, it turns out that everyone thinks about their own skin, the majority wins the minority

here the logic is, someone will be happy when he finds out that they are buffing the average character since he has it in the 6 * version
and someone else who does not have 6 * of the average character who is buffing, will tell why him? he is already an average character, why not the weaker character like groot , and especially since I have him 6 *?
But they wouldn't say that if they had 6 * of the average character who getting a buff and despite the fact that he is already an average not the weakest

1. The people actively using Hood are a minority. I'm pretty sure the devs know this.

2. Not everyone who has expressed concerned is looking out for their own skin. For example, the Hood changes are unlikely to hurt me much: my roster is sizeable and I have multiple answers to almost any fight, and I haven't invested resources to rank Hood up higher than r4. The changes are not going to cost me anything. I've explained why I care several times now, and it isn't because the change is going to hurt me specifically. In the grand scheme of things, changes like this are far more likely to help me than hurt me.

3. You should consider that one difference between you and the player who wrote nine pages of analysis on Hood is that player cared enough to write nine pages of analysis on a change they have every reason to believe will not get reversed. They had every reason to believe their objections would be overlooked as well, but they were motivated to lodge them nevertheless. Passion does not equal credibility, but those nine pages contain careful research and analysis, not just whining. And objective analysis still counts for something, at least for some people.

Fair enough. I was curious if it was related to The Champion. I understand the concerns about the method. I would agree with them. It makes it pretty null to play Jenga.

Terra

GroundedWisdom said:

Terra said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Texas_11 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Texas_11 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Texas_11 said:

Terra said:

Aleor said:

Terra said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Here's a question. If it wasn't for The Champion in 6.2, would people be as bothered?

Of course they would be.
Hood is (or well, was) used in plenty of other areas where his utility was needed.
This has nothing to do with The Champion, it's just about them "buffing" someone that didn't need it just because they have a outdated way of checking usage data on champions

I believe most of people who use hood will agree be needs a buff. A buff to increase his dps. None of them will ask to nerf his utility. If it would've be smth with his sp1 changed, like sp1 for damage, sp2 as it is, people would be quite happy. But the person who came up with proposed changes probably thought he's smbd like og black panther, who needs a rework. When actually hood only required little adjustment here and there

Hood only needed a small damage bump. NOTHING else. He was one of the last champs in actual need of a rework

You have to be kidding me? He had a 50% increase from Stryfe and still was below average. He needed a moderate re work.

That’s like saying Dr. Strange doesn’t need a damage update , or ghost rider doesn’t need a moderate update. Of course they do.

Kind of lost me on GR. He's still a dependable utility Champ.

He is dependable, but he needs a number tweaks. I can be stuck in fights with him for 3-4 mins

There's more of a measure than just War. He's all-round useful if you're cycling your Judgments properly.

I play gold 1/ silver wars. He is useful, just like hood is useful. I’m not arguing anything but his damage.

No, I get that. I'm just pointing out that Damage and Utility are not necessarily combinable. I mentioned War because you referenced the time. Some Fights take much longer than 3 or 4 minutes, depending on what you're doing.

There are champs that combine both Damage and Utility so that rings a bit hollow.
Can't see why they didn't just give Hood a damage bump instead of this mess of a rework no one asked for.

There are some, but not all. Nor is that the goal from what I understand of these reworks. For as long as I can remember, they've been clear that there will be a range concerning Champs. Different strengths, different weaknesses. There will always be a "top", and a "bottom". The purpose of these reworks isn't to make all Champs on par with the top, or good at both Damage and Utility. It's to bring them up to speed within the current atmosphere and narrow the gap, so-to-speak. So there may be some that combine both, but that's not necessarily the goal from what I see.

Yes of course. These "updates" are supposed to do that.
But when someone like Hood who was perfectly fine to begin with is meddled with too much and having things added that makes the character overly complex isn't ideal. It used to be sp2 for buff control and invisibility enter + for regen.
Now, he's completely different and complex. Was this needed at all? No.
It was a big difference with say Spidergwen or Shehulk for a examples. While Hood always was solid, They were considered "memes" mostly back then. Look at them now. They were done right in being brought up. This Hood "buff" has gone the entire opposite direction.

Sakic19

Kabam has yet again ruined a perfectly good champ! Apparently many people were beating their content without spending money! My 6* rank 2 Hood (55 sig ability) is now worthless. He was a Hyperion killer. Now he is going to be another crappy champ that will show up more frequently in the crystals. Thanks Kabam! You are making it a lot easier to want to just delete your game and never return!

winterthur

DoubleDelta said:

Can I ask if anyone complaining has actually seen this buff / nerf? No.

Yes.. his losing fate seal.. I understand that.. there's a reason they've removed it. How can you complain before you've seen something. Wait until the buff comes out. Then kick and scream about it.

But hey, go ahead and keep pushing that disagree button to anyone who actually wants to see the buff before judging it. If it's a s*** buff, I'll be on here complaining.. until then. I want to see him before I pass judgement.

11 dislikes is my record so far.. bring it on boys, I'm waiting..

In the 🥪 I love to eat, there is a little ingredient A I like, but not many care for it. Now the shop says, they will change it, add much more value and other delicious items but will hence cease giving ingredient A.

Should I bother to taste what the new recipe is like since the only reason I want to eat that is it has a little ingredient A?

Terra

winterthur said:

DoubleDelta said:

Can I ask if anyone complaining has actually seen this buff / nerf? No.

Yes.. his losing fate seal.. I understand that.. there's a reason they've removed it. How can you complain before you've seen something. Wait until the buff comes out. Then kick and scream about it.

But hey, go ahead and keep pushing that disagree button to anyone who actually wants to see the buff before judging it. If it's a s*** buff, I'll be on here complaining.. until then. I want to see him before I pass judgement.

11 dislikes is my record so far.. bring it on boys, I'm waiting..

In the 🥪 I love to eat, there is a little ingredient A I like, but not many care for it. Now the shop says, they will change it, add much more value and other delicious items but will hence cease giving ingredient A.

Should I bother to taste what the new recipe is like since the only reason I want to eat that is it has a little ingredient A?

Is it cheese?

Texas_11

winterthur said:

DoubleDelta said:

Can I ask if anyone complaining has actually seen this buff / nerf? No.

Yes.. his losing fate seal.. I understand that.. there's a reason they've removed it. How can you complain before you've seen something. Wait until the buff comes out. Then kick and scream about it.

But hey, go ahead and keep pushing that disagree button to anyone who actually wants to see the buff before judging it. If it's a s*** buff, I'll be on here complaining.. until then. I want to see him before I pass judgement.

11 dislikes is my record so far.. bring it on boys, I'm waiting..

In the 🥪 I love to eat, there is a little ingredient A I like, but not many care for it. Now the shop says, they will change it, add much more value and other delicious items but will hence cease giving ingredient A.

Should I bother to taste what the new recipe is like since the only reason I want to eat that is it has a little ingredient A?

LOL. I’m not a fan of this example.

It’s like going to get your sandwich and they say hey I know your sandwich you like the crunchy peanut butter and jelly one. We upgraded from store bought Jam to making our own, it’s healthier for you and it’s homemade and it allows us to sell more sandwiches to the health minded couple. If we continue to sell store bought jam, we would lose a lot of health conscious customers.

After that it’s your choice to buy the sandwich or not. Who knows it may taste great.

The_Sentry06

Texas_11 said:

winterthur said:

DoubleDelta said:

Can I ask if anyone complaining has actually seen this buff / nerf? No.

Yes.. his losing fate seal.. I understand that.. there's a reason they've removed it. How can you complain before you've seen something. Wait until the buff comes out. Then kick and scream about it.

But hey, go ahead and keep pushing that disagree button to anyone who actually wants to see the buff before judging it. If it's a s*** buff, I'll be on here complaining.. until then. I want to see him before I pass judgement.

11 dislikes is my record so far.. bring it on boys, I'm waiting..

In the 🥪 I love to eat, there is a little ingredient A I like, but not many care for it. Now the shop says, they will change it, add much more value and other delicious items but will hence cease giving ingredient A.

Should I bother to taste what the new recipe is like since the only reason I want to eat that is it has a little ingredient A?

LOL. I’m not a fan of this example.

It’s like going to get your sandwich and they say hey I know your sandwich you like the crunchy peanut butter and jelly one. We upgraded from store bought Jam to making our own, it’s healthier for you and it’s homemade and it allows us to sell more sandwiches to the health minded couple. If we continue to sell store bought jam, we would lose a lot of health conscious customers.

After that it’s your choice to buy the sandwich or not. Who knows it may taste great.

Not really. It's more like they added more peanut butter and removed the jam.

Snizzbar

Texas_11 said:

winterthur said:

DoubleDelta said:

Can I ask if anyone complaining has actually seen this buff / nerf? No.

Yes.. his losing fate seal.. I understand that.. there's a reason they've removed it. How can you complain before you've seen something. Wait until the buff comes out. Then kick and scream about it.

But hey, go ahead and keep pushing that disagree button to anyone who actually wants to see the buff before judging it. If it's a s*** buff, I'll be on here complaining.. until then. I want to see him before I pass judgement.

11 dislikes is my record so far.. bring it on boys, I'm waiting..

In the 🥪 I love to eat, there is a little ingredient A I like, but not many care for it. Now the shop says, they will change it, add much more value and other delicious items but will hence cease giving ingredient A.

Should I bother to taste what the new recipe is like since the only reason I want to eat that is it has a little ingredient A?

LOL. I’m not a fan of this example.

It’s like going to get your sandwich and they say hey I know your sandwich you like the crunchy peanut butter and jelly one. We upgraded from store bought Jam to making our own, it’s healthier for you and it’s homemade and it allows us to sell more sandwiches to the health minded couple. If we continue to sell store bought jam, we would lose a lot of health conscious customers.

After that it’s your choice to buy the sandwich or not. Who knows it may taste great.

At the moment Hood is a PB&J sandwich. What they're doing is taking the jam out and putting pastrami in. Which, by itself, would make a very nice sandwich. Just not with peanut butter, and not after I've had PB&J every day for four years, am very happy with, I SPECIFICALLY WANTED a PB&J sandwich, and no one asked me if I wanted pastrami - they just decided to change it anyway.