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My ranking of the top 5 champions in each class

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    KDSuperFlash10KDSuperFlash10 Posts: 5,869 ★★★★★
    BuffBeast said:

    BuffBeast said:

    If you’re gonna include horsemen gambit then you might aswell say ramped up to 999 hits Aegon and put him at the top of the skill list

    How are they even comparable. To turn Gambit into a horseman, you win one fight with Apoc then Gambit is a horseman for the rest of the quest. To get Aegon to 999 hits, you have to be in the Abyss and go through a ton of fights over multiple hours. No doubt Aegon is insane at that point, but they're not even comparable in that sense. If we're talking max potential of each champ, this list would be very different. A near-perfect Tigra player would mean Tigra jumps to top 2 mystic, *but I'm talking about these champs in general*.
    I personally consider horsemen gambit to be at his max potential hence as to why I thought it would be appropriate to say that you should include a fully ramped up Aegon. (Aegon at his max potential) I’m not talking about skill. I’m talking about including Aegon at his max potential since you included gambit at his max potential
    You can’t seriously compare a max ramped Aegon to a horseman champion, which takes a single fight in a quest to achieve.
  • Options
    KDSuperFlash10KDSuperFlash10 Posts: 5,869 ★★★★★

    BuffBeast said:

    If you’re gonna include horsemen gambit then you might aswell say ramped up to 999 hits Aegon and put him at the top of the skill list

    Yeah, and Horsemen AA.
    Horseman AA is there buddy
    Horsemen AA>Gambit lol
    To each their own
  • Options
    KDSuperFlash10KDSuperFlash10 Posts: 5,869 ★★★★★

    Everyone hating on OP is forgetting that if they wrote their own top 5 of each class they’d get a hell of a lot of disagrees too. That’s what you get with putting your opinion on 30 champions out there, someone will disagree somewhere along the line.

    Thank you. No ones ever gonna agree with another person’s 30 champion list to the dot, it’s part of the fun of this game because so many people have different opinions.
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    Agent_X_zzzAgent_X_zzz Posts: 4,495 ★★★★★

    Everyone hating on OP is forgetting that if they wrote their own top 5 of each class they’d get a hell of a lot of disagrees too. That’s what you get with putting your opinion on 30 champions out there, someone will disagree somewhere along the line.

    Lol I don’t like nor make tier lists in general because each tier list is biased, and subjective to that persons opinion / experience with a champion. So there is no objectively correct tier list.
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    BlackTuranBlackTuran Posts: 654 ★★★

    BuffBeast said:

    BuffBeast said:

    If you’re gonna include horsemen gambit then you might aswell say ramped up to 999 hits Aegon and put him at the top of the skill list

    How are they even comparable. To turn Gambit into a horseman, you win one fight with Apoc then Gambit is a horseman for the rest of the quest. To get Aegon to 999 hits, you have to be in the Abyss and go through a ton of fights over multiple hours. No doubt Aegon is insane at that point, but they're not even comparable in that sense. If we're talking max potential of each champ, this list would be very different. A near-perfect Tigra player would mean Tigra jumps to top 2 mystic, *but I'm talking about these champs in general*.
    I personally consider horsemen gambit to be at his max potential hence as to why I thought it would be appropriate to say that you should include a fully ramped up Aegon. (Aegon at his max potential) I’m not talking about skill. I’m talking about including Aegon at his max potential since you included gambit at his max potential
    You can’t seriously compare a max ramped Aegon to a horseman champion, which takes a single fight in a quest to achieve.
    it's not a single fight in most cases, unless you wanna occupy three slots on your team
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    BuffBeastBuffBeast Posts: 1,075 ★★★★
    edited March 2021

    BuffBeast said:

    BuffBeast said:

    If you’re gonna include horsemen gambit then you might aswell say ramped up to 999 hits Aegon and put him at the top of the skill list

    How are they even comparable. To turn Gambit into a horseman, you win one fight with Apoc then Gambit is a horseman for the rest of the quest. To get Aegon to 999 hits, you have to be in the Abyss and go through a ton of fights over multiple hours. No doubt Aegon is insane at that point, but they're not even comparable in that sense. If we're talking max potential of each champ, this list would be very different. A near-perfect Tigra player would mean Tigra jumps to top 2 mystic, *but I'm talking about these champs in general*.
    I personally consider horsemen gambit to be at his max potential hence as to why I thought it would be appropriate to say that you should include a fully ramped up Aegon. (Aegon at his max potential) I’m not talking about skill. I’m talking about including Aegon at his max potential since you included gambit at his max potential
    You can’t seriously compare a max ramped Aegon to a horseman champion, which takes a single fight in a quest to achieve.
    Aegon at like 200 combo is better than horseman gambit lol
    I mean, once you get to around 100-150 hits he’s already great, but I agree 100%
  • Options
    KDSuperFlash10KDSuperFlash10 Posts: 5,869 ★★★★★

    BuffBeast said:

    BuffBeast said:

    If you’re gonna include horsemen gambit then you might aswell say ramped up to 999 hits Aegon and put him at the top of the skill list

    How are they even comparable. To turn Gambit into a horseman, you win one fight with Apoc then Gambit is a horseman for the rest of the quest. To get Aegon to 999 hits, you have to be in the Abyss and go through a ton of fights over multiple hours. No doubt Aegon is insane at that point, but they're not even comparable in that sense. If we're talking max potential of each champ, this list would be very different. A near-perfect Tigra player would mean Tigra jumps to top 2 mystic, *but I'm talking about these champs in general*.
    I personally consider horsemen gambit to be at his max potential hence as to why I thought it would be appropriate to say that you should include a fully ramped up Aegon. (Aegon at his max potential) I’m not talking about skill. I’m talking about including Aegon at his max potential since you included gambit at his max potential
    You can’t seriously compare a max ramped Aegon to a horseman champion, which takes a single fight in a quest to achieve.
    Aegon at like 200 combo is better than horseman gambit lol
    That may be true but it’s not relevant to this list because i’m not combining mutant and skill champs. They’re being ranked separately.
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    GreekhitGreekhit Posts: 2,820 ★★★★★

    BuffBeast said:

    BuffBeast said:

    If you’re gonna include horsemen gambit then you might aswell say ramped up to 999 hits Aegon and put him at the top of the skill list

    How are they even comparable. To turn Gambit into a horseman, you win one fight with Apoc then Gambit is a horseman for the rest of the quest. To get Aegon to 999 hits, you have to be in the Abyss and go through a ton of fights over multiple hours. No doubt Aegon is insane at that point, but they're not even comparable in that sense. If we're talking max potential of each champ, this list would be very different. A near-perfect Tigra player would mean Tigra jumps to top 2 mystic, *but I'm talking about these champs in general*.
    I personally consider horsemen gambit to be at his max potential hence as to why I thought it would be appropriate to say that you should include a fully ramped up Aegon. (Aegon at his max potential) I’m not talking about skill. I’m talking about including Aegon at his max potential since you included gambit at his max potential
    You can’t seriously compare a max ramped Aegon to a horseman champion, which takes a single fight in a quest to achieve.
    There are quest paths, not many though, where you can ramp up Aegon a lot on first fight or even reach 999combo 😉
    Also Aegon at 150hits is already better than most horsemen and at 300hits better than any horseman.
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    BlackTuranBlackTuran Posts: 654 ★★★

    BuffBeast said:

    BuffBeast said:

    If you’re gonna include horsemen gambit then you might aswell say ramped up to 999 hits Aegon and put him at the top of the skill list

    How are they even comparable. To turn Gambit into a horseman, you win one fight with Apoc then Gambit is a horseman for the rest of the quest. To get Aegon to 999 hits, you have to be in the Abyss and go through a ton of fights over multiple hours. No doubt Aegon is insane at that point, but they're not even comparable in that sense. If we're talking max potential of each champ, this list would be very different. A near-perfect Tigra player would mean Tigra jumps to top 2 mystic, *but I'm talking about these champs in general*.
    I personally consider horsemen gambit to be at his max potential hence as to why I thought it would be appropriate to say that you should include a fully ramped up Aegon. (Aegon at his max potential) I’m not talking about skill. I’m talking about including Aegon at his max potential since you included gambit at his max potential
    You can’t seriously compare a max ramped Aegon to a horseman champion, which takes a single fight in a quest to achieve.
    Aegon at like 200 combo is better than horseman gambit lol
    That may be true but it’s not relevant to this list because i’m not combining mutant and skill champs. They’re being ranked separately.
    Bruh everybody was talking about Aegon vs Gambit so I just wanted to chime in lmao
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    KDSuperFlash10KDSuperFlash10 Posts: 5,869 ★★★★★

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
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    BlackTuranBlackTuran Posts: 654 ★★★
    I don't remember the last time I was worried about block damage, if Gambit stopped DOT, damage from actually getting hit or unavoidable degen, then I'd be impressed
  • Options
    BlackTuranBlackTuran Posts: 654 ★★★

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
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    BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,263 ★★★★★

    I don't remember the last time I was worried about block damage, if Gambit stopped DOT, damage from actually getting hit or unavoidable degen, then I'd be impressed

    Block damage is quite a big problem in some content. I think some people have forgotten how bad some act 6 block damage was back when we were going through it with rank 4 and 5s.

    When we get tough content again, not act 7, I think gambit is going to shine.

    He also reduces thorns, damage back on hit things like that. Which is some really nice utility to have.
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    CrcrcrcCrcrcrc Posts: 7,944 ★★★★★
    GagoH said:

    iHulk isn’t even top 20 science and you have him as spot 3 and above beardo? Way to lose the very last ounce of seriousness anyone might have had for your posts

    iHulk is top 2 wdym
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    BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,263 ★★★★★

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW vs any multi hit special isn’t possible to reparry. 0 block damage is pretty crazy. Especially when you don’t need to parry or anything. Just hold block for a few seconds and 0 block damage
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    BlackTuranBlackTuran Posts: 654 ★★★

    I don't remember the last time I was worried about block damage, if Gambit stopped DOT, damage from actually getting hit or unavoidable degen, then I'd be impressed

    Block damage is quite a big problem in some content. I think some people have forgotten how bad some act 6 block damage was back when we were going through it with rank 4 and 5s.

    When we get tough content again, not act 7, I think gambit is going to shine.

    He also reduces thorns, damage back on hit things like that. Which is some really nice utility to have.
    where is it a big problem right now though? act 6 attack values right now are nothing to worry about as they're nerfed to the ground
  • Options
    YoMovesYoMoves Posts: 1,281 ★★★★
    Crcrcrc said:

    GagoH said:

    iHulk isn’t even top 20 science and you have him as spot 3 and above beardo? Way to lose the very last ounce of seriousness anyone might have had for your posts

    iHulk is top 2 wdym
    After top 1 it's all a matter of opinion. I rank Cap over Ihulk in most circumstances for being more versatile in general and being less about lolbigdamagegobrr. Some people like MS over BWCV. Unless there's a distinct power gap a lot of the top 10 is fluid.
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    BlackTuranBlackTuran Posts: 654 ★★★

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW vs any multi hit special isn’t possible to reparry. 0 block damage is pretty crazy. Especially when you don’t need to parry or anything. Just hold block for a few seconds and 0 block damage
    again, show me one piece of content where the damage from taking a special on the block is a big problem other than incursions
  • Options
    KDSuperFlash10KDSuperFlash10 Posts: 5,869 ★★★★★

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW’s perfect block is very different to Gambit’s:
    1. Cap IW’s perfect block is based on his block proficiency, meaning it can be reduced by nodes like soft guard. Horseman Gambit’s perfect block is not based on block proficiency, it’s simply a perfect block.
    2. Because Cap IW’s perfect block is based on his block proficiency, he can’t achieve longer combos in the parry stun like champs like Morningstar and Magneto can. Horseman Gambit is similar to those champs in that his perfect block (being not based on block prof) extends his parry stun to allow 9 hit combos.
    3. You can’t parry every hit of a multi hit special attack with Cap IW. With Horseman Gambit, you don’t even have to worry about partying in the first place, as he will block the entire special attack and take 0 damage (great for Punishers, Cable sp1, Apocalypse, etc.).
    4. You don’t have to worry about re-parrying with Horseman Gambit, all of his blocks are perfect blocks.
  • Options
    YoMovesYoMoves Posts: 1,281 ★★★★

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW’s perfect block is very different to Gambit’s:
    1. Cap IW’s perfect block is based on his block proficiency, meaning it can be reduced by nodes like soft guard. Horseman Gambit’s perfect block is not based on block proficiency, it’s simply a perfect block.
    2. Because Cap IW’s perfect block is based on his block proficiency, he can’t achieve longer combos in the parry stun like champs like Morningstar and Magneto can. Horseman Gambit is similar to those champs in that his perfect block (being not based on block prof) extends his parry stun to allow 9 hit combos.
    3. You can’t parry every hit of a multi hit special attack with Cap IW. With Horseman Gambit, you don’t even have to worry about partying in the first place, as he will block the entire special attack and take 0 damage (great for Punishers, Cable sp1, Apocalypse, etc.).
    4. You don’t have to worry about re-parrying with Horseman Gambit, all of his blocks are perfect blocks.
    And without losing said perfect block, his damage is fiery garbage, and he can't avoid a lot of other damage like Cap can through his own shrugging abilities among others.
  • Options
    KDSuperFlash10KDSuperFlash10 Posts: 5,869 ★★★★★
    YoMoves said:

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW’s perfect block is very different to Gambit’s:
    1. Cap IW’s perfect block is based on his block proficiency, meaning it can be reduced by nodes like soft guard. Horseman Gambit’s perfect block is not based on block proficiency, it’s simply a perfect block.
    2. Because Cap IW’s perfect block is based on his block proficiency, he can’t achieve longer combos in the parry stun like champs like Morningstar and Magneto can. Horseman Gambit is similar to those champs in that his perfect block (being not based on block prof) extends his parry stun to allow 9 hit combos.
    3. You can’t parry every hit of a multi hit special attack with Cap IW. With Horseman Gambit, you don’t even have to worry about partying in the first place, as he will block the entire special attack and take 0 damage (great for Punishers, Cable sp1, Apocalypse, etc.).
    4. You don’t have to worry about re-parrying with Horseman Gambit, all of his blocks are perfect blocks.
    And without losing said perfect block, his damage is fiery garbage, and he can't avoid a lot of other damage like Cap can through his own shrugging abilities among others.
    Why does it matter if his damage is garbage if he can get out of every fight with his health untouched? 😂
  • Options
    KDSuperFlash10KDSuperFlash10 Posts: 5,869 ★★★★★

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW vs any multi hit special isn’t possible to reparry. 0 block damage is pretty crazy. Especially when you don’t need to parry or anything. Just hold block for a few seconds and 0 block damage
    again, show me one piece of content where the damage from taking a special on the block is a big problem other than incursions
    6.3 and 6.4 can hurt quite a bit on the block. I’m sure future story and variant content that Gambit works for will be the same or worse block damage.
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    YoMovesYoMoves Posts: 1,281 ★★★★

    YoMoves said:

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW’s perfect block is very different to Gambit’s:
    1. Cap IW’s perfect block is based on his block proficiency, meaning it can be reduced by nodes like soft guard. Horseman Gambit’s perfect block is not based on block proficiency, it’s simply a perfect block.
    2. Because Cap IW’s perfect block is based on his block proficiency, he can’t achieve longer combos in the parry stun like champs like Morningstar and Magneto can. Horseman Gambit is similar to those champs in that his perfect block (being not based on block prof) extends his parry stun to allow 9 hit combos.
    3. You can’t parry every hit of a multi hit special attack with Cap IW. With Horseman Gambit, you don’t even have to worry about partying in the first place, as he will block the entire special attack and take 0 damage (great for Punishers, Cable sp1, Apocalypse, etc.).
    4. You don’t have to worry about re-parrying with Horseman Gambit, all of his blocks are perfect blocks.
    And without losing said perfect block, his damage is fiery garbage, and he can't avoid a lot of other damage like Cap can through his own shrugging abilities among others.
    Why does it matter if his damage is garbage if he can get out of every fight with his health untouched? 😂
    Do you read?

    'and he can't avoid a lot of other damage like Cap can'

    In most situations, both can avoid all damage in a normal fight. Cap, however, has much higher CONSISTENT damage potential.

    Thus, Cap wins in most situations.
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    BuffBeastBuffBeast Posts: 1,075 ★★★★
    edited March 2021

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW vs any multi hit special isn’t possible to reparry. 0 block damage is pretty crazy. Especially when you don’t need to parry or anything. Just hold block for a few seconds and 0 block damage
    You do realize this utility is easily undermined by these magical things called “heavy attacks” and “unblockable special attacks” right? yes zero block damage is nice but it’s rendered useless if you’re backed into a corner and the opponent is unblockable or has a 3-6 hit or whatever heavy attack. You’re guaranteed to screw up at some point and thinking that you can rely on this utility more than parry/heaving is kinda obscene. Besides, it’s not like you’re taking 100k block damage
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    BlackTuranBlackTuran Posts: 654 ★★★

    YoMoves said:

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW’s perfect block is very different to Gambit’s:
    1. Cap IW’s perfect block is based on his block proficiency, meaning it can be reduced by nodes like soft guard. Horseman Gambit’s perfect block is not based on block proficiency, it’s simply a perfect block.
    2. Because Cap IW’s perfect block is based on his block proficiency, he can’t achieve longer combos in the parry stun like champs like Morningstar and Magneto can. Horseman Gambit is similar to those champs in that his perfect block (being not based on block prof) extends his parry stun to allow 9 hit combos.
    3. You can’t parry every hit of a multi hit special attack with Cap IW. With Horseman Gambit, you don’t even have to worry about partying in the first place, as he will block the entire special attack and take 0 damage (great for Punishers, Cable sp1, Apocalypse, etc.).
    4. You don’t have to worry about re-parrying with Horseman Gambit, all of his blocks are perfect blocks.
    And without losing said perfect block, his damage is fiery garbage, and he can't avoid a lot of other damage like Cap can through his own shrugging abilities among others.
    Why does it matter if his damage is garbage if he can get out of every fight with his health untouched? 😂
    every fight? bruh
  • Options
    BlackTuranBlackTuran Posts: 654 ★★★

    YoMoves said:

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW’s perfect block is very different to Gambit’s:
    1. Cap IW’s perfect block is based on his block proficiency, meaning it can be reduced by nodes like soft guard. Horseman Gambit’s perfect block is not based on block proficiency, it’s simply a perfect block.
    2. Because Cap IW’s perfect block is based on his block proficiency, he can’t achieve longer combos in the parry stun like champs like Morningstar and Magneto can. Horseman Gambit is similar to those champs in that his perfect block (being not based on block prof) extends his parry stun to allow 9 hit combos.
    3. You can’t parry every hit of a multi hit special attack with Cap IW. With Horseman Gambit, you don’t even have to worry about partying in the first place, as he will block the entire special attack and take 0 damage (great for Punishers, Cable sp1, Apocalypse, etc.).
    4. You don’t have to worry about re-parrying with Horseman Gambit, all of his blocks are perfect blocks.
    And without losing said perfect block, his damage is fiery garbage, and he can't avoid a lot of other damage like Cap can through his own shrugging abilities among others.
    Why does it matter if his damage is garbage if he can get out of every fight with his health untouched? 😂
    every fight? bruh
    as I said, since he doesn't reduce the damage from anything other than blocked hits, it's not very impressive to me
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