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My ranking of the top 5 champions in each class

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    KDSuperFlash10KDSuperFlash10 Posts: 5,869 ★★★★★
    BuffBeast said:

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW vs any multi hit special isn’t possible to reparry. 0 block damage is pretty crazy. Especially when you don’t need to parry or anything. Just hold block for a few seconds and 0 block damage
    You do realize this utility is easily undermined by these magical things called “heavy attacks” and “unblockable special attacks” yes zero block damage is nice but it’s rendered useless if you’re backed into a corner and the opponent is unblockable or has a 3-6 hit or whatever heavy attack. You’re guaranteed to screw up at some point and thinking that you can rely on this utility more than parry/heaving is kinda obscene. Besides, it’s not like you’re taking 100k block damage
    Then maybe don’t use him vs unblockable special attacks??? How do people seriously make arguments about nodes that counter champions’ abilities to bring down the value of that champion?

    Obviously, a champion will have weaknesses, or else they’d be broken. MCOC is supposed to be a balanced game. Literally common sense.

    You can’t bring down the value of a champ like Doom saying he’s not as good because he can’t counter biohazard. That’s not part of his kit, he’s not intended to counter that.
  • Options
    BlackTuranBlackTuran Posts: 654 ★★★

    BuffBeast said:

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW vs any multi hit special isn’t possible to reparry. 0 block damage is pretty crazy. Especially when you don’t need to parry or anything. Just hold block for a few seconds and 0 block damage
    You do realize this utility is easily undermined by these magical things called “heavy attacks” and “unblockable special attacks” yes zero block damage is nice but it’s rendered useless if you’re backed into a corner and the opponent is unblockable or has a 3-6 hit or whatever heavy attack. You’re guaranteed to screw up at some point and thinking that you can rely on this utility more than parry/heaving is kinda obscene. Besides, it’s not like you’re taking 100k block damage
    Then maybe don’t use him vs unblockable special attacks??? How do people seriously make arguments about nodes that counter champions’ abilities to bring down the value of that champion?

    Obviously, a champion will have weaknesses, or else they’d be broken. MCOC is supposed to be a balanced game. Literally common sense.

    You can’t bring down the value of a champ like Doom saying he’s not as good because he can’t counter biohazard. That’s not part of his kit, he’s not intended to counter that.
    here's the thing though: Gambit's "insane" utility doesn't work for any non-generic node other than thorns, bleed (which any horseman can deal with), or nodes that deal with block proficiency
  • Options
    BlackTuranBlackTuran Posts: 654 ★★★
    whereas great champs like Cap IW, Doom, etc. work for tons of node combinations
  • Options
    KDSuperFlash10KDSuperFlash10 Posts: 5,869 ★★★★★

    YoMoves said:

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW’s perfect block is very different to Gambit’s:
    1. Cap IW’s perfect block is based on his block proficiency, meaning it can be reduced by nodes like soft guard. Horseman Gambit’s perfect block is not based on block proficiency, it’s simply a perfect block.
    2. Because Cap IW’s perfect block is based on his block proficiency, he can’t achieve longer combos in the parry stun like champs like Morningstar and Magneto can. Horseman Gambit is similar to those champs in that his perfect block (being not based on block prof) extends his parry stun to allow 9 hit combos.
    3. You can’t parry every hit of a multi hit special attack with Cap IW. With Horseman Gambit, you don’t even have to worry about partying in the first place, as he will block the entire special attack and take 0 damage (great for Punishers, Cable sp1, Apocalypse, etc.).
    4. You don’t have to worry about re-parrying with Horseman Gambit, all of his blocks are perfect blocks.
    And without losing said perfect block, his damage is fiery garbage, and he can't avoid a lot of other damage like Cap can through his own shrugging abilities among others.
    Why does it matter if his damage is garbage if he can get out of every fight with his health untouched? 😂
    Yeah dot and mess ups / unblockable totally don’t exist.
    Then maybe don’t use him vs unblockable attacks or other DOT matchups?

    You can’t seriously bring down the value of a champion by arguing that a certain node counters him. Gambit was not built to counter unblockable attacks. Doctor Doom was not built to counter bleed and poison effects. Ghost was not built to counter armor break effects. All champions have their weaknesses, and rightfully so in a balanced game.

    And on your point of mess ups, it’s a whole lot easier to mess up with a champion like Quake than a champion like Horseman Gambit, who simply has to block... Makes you think. Quake is still the best champion in the game even tho shes one of the hardest to play for the average player. It doesn’t and shouldn’t bring down her value.
  • Options
    BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,263 ★★★★★

    BuffBeast said:

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW vs any multi hit special isn’t possible to reparry. 0 block damage is pretty crazy. Especially when you don’t need to parry or anything. Just hold block for a few seconds and 0 block damage
    You do realize this utility is easily undermined by these magical things called “heavy attacks” and “unblockable special attacks” yes zero block damage is nice but it’s rendered useless if you’re backed into a corner and the opponent is unblockable or has a 3-6 hit or whatever heavy attack. You’re guaranteed to screw up at some point and thinking that you can rely on this utility more than parry/heaving is kinda obscene. Besides, it’s not like you’re taking 100k block damage
    Then maybe don’t use him vs unblockable special attacks??? How do people seriously make arguments about nodes that counter champions’ abilities to bring down the value of that champion?

    Obviously, a champion will have weaknesses, or else they’d be broken. MCOC is supposed to be a balanced game. Literally common sense.

    You can’t bring down the value of a champ like Doom saying he’s not as good because he can’t counter biohazard. That’s not part of his kit, he’s not intended to counter that.
    Lol exactly

    QuAke is BaD bEcAuSe trUe StRikE ExiSts
  • Options
    KDSuperFlash10KDSuperFlash10 Posts: 5,869 ★★★★★

    YoMoves said:

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW’s perfect block is very different to Gambit’s:
    1. Cap IW’s perfect block is based on his block proficiency, meaning it can be reduced by nodes like soft guard. Horseman Gambit’s perfect block is not based on block proficiency, it’s simply a perfect block.
    2. Because Cap IW’s perfect block is based on his block proficiency, he can’t achieve longer combos in the parry stun like champs like Morningstar and Magneto can. Horseman Gambit is similar to those champs in that his perfect block (being not based on block prof) extends his parry stun to allow 9 hit combos.
    3. You can’t parry every hit of a multi hit special attack with Cap IW. With Horseman Gambit, you don’t even have to worry about partying in the first place, as he will block the entire special attack and take 0 damage (great for Punishers, Cable sp1, Apocalypse, etc.).
    4. You don’t have to worry about re-parrying with Horseman Gambit, all of his blocks are perfect blocks.
    And without losing said perfect block, his damage is fiery garbage, and he can't avoid a lot of other damage like Cap can through his own shrugging abilities among others.
    Why does it matter if his damage is garbage if he can get out of every fight with his health untouched? 😂
    every fight? bruh
    If someone is that desperate for damage they can run the suicide masteries or just play Gambit normally. Gambit hits hard with his prowesses on special attacks, and since his buff each prowess buff grants crit damage, making both his special and basic attack hits have higher crit damage.
  • Options
    KDSuperFlash10KDSuperFlash10 Posts: 5,869 ★★★★★

    BuffBeast said:

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW vs any multi hit special isn’t possible to reparry. 0 block damage is pretty crazy. Especially when you don’t need to parry or anything. Just hold block for a few seconds and 0 block damage
    You do realize this utility is easily undermined by these magical things called “heavy attacks” and “unblockable special attacks” yes zero block damage is nice but it’s rendered useless if you’re backed into a corner and the opponent is unblockable or has a 3-6 hit or whatever heavy attack. You’re guaranteed to screw up at some point and thinking that you can rely on this utility more than parry/heaving is kinda obscene. Besides, it’s not like you’re taking 100k block damage
    Then maybe don’t use him vs unblockable special attacks??? How do people seriously make arguments about nodes that counter champions’ abilities to bring down the value of that champion?

    Obviously, a champion will have weaknesses, or else they’d be broken. MCOC is supposed to be a balanced game. Literally common sense.

    You can’t bring down the value of a champ like Doom saying he’s not as good because he can’t counter biohazard. That’s not part of his kit, he’s not intended to counter that.
    Lol exactly

    QuAke is BaD bEcAuSe trUe StRikE ExiSts
    I hate it so much when someone brings down the value of a champion because they can’t counter x node. MCOC is intended to be a balanced game, not a broken one. Quake’s value shouldn’t and rightfully doesn’t go down because true strike nodes and encounters exist. The same applies for all other champs and their weaknesses, which cause for a balanced game that I think most players want.
  • Options
    BlackTuranBlackTuran Posts: 654 ★★★

    YoMoves said:

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW’s perfect block is very different to Gambit’s:
    1. Cap IW’s perfect block is based on his block proficiency, meaning it can be reduced by nodes like soft guard. Horseman Gambit’s perfect block is not based on block proficiency, it’s simply a perfect block.
    2. Because Cap IW’s perfect block is based on his block proficiency, he can’t achieve longer combos in the parry stun like champs like Morningstar and Magneto can. Horseman Gambit is similar to those champs in that his perfect block (being not based on block prof) extends his parry stun to allow 9 hit combos.
    3. You can’t parry every hit of a multi hit special attack with Cap IW. With Horseman Gambit, you don’t even have to worry about partying in the first place, as he will block the entire special attack and take 0 damage (great for Punishers, Cable sp1, Apocalypse, etc.).
    4. You don’t have to worry about re-parrying with Horseman Gambit, all of his blocks are perfect blocks.
    And without losing said perfect block, his damage is fiery garbage, and he can't avoid a lot of other damage like Cap can through his own shrugging abilities among others.
    Why does it matter if his damage is garbage if he can get out of every fight with his health untouched? 😂
    every fight? bruh
    If someone is that desperate for damage they can run the suicide masteries or just play Gambit normally. Gambit hits hard with his prowesses on special attacks, and since his buff each prowess buff grants crit damage, making both his special and basic attack hits have higher crit damage.

    YoMoves said:

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW’s perfect block is very different to Gambit’s:
    1. Cap IW’s perfect block is based on his block proficiency, meaning it can be reduced by nodes like soft guard. Horseman Gambit’s perfect block is not based on block proficiency, it’s simply a perfect block.
    2. Because Cap IW’s perfect block is based on his block proficiency, he can’t achieve longer combos in the parry stun like champs like Morningstar and Magneto can. Horseman Gambit is similar to those champs in that his perfect block (being not based on block prof) extends his parry stun to allow 9 hit combos.
    3. You can’t parry every hit of a multi hit special attack with Cap IW. With Horseman Gambit, you don’t even have to worry about partying in the first place, as he will block the entire special attack and take 0 damage (great for Punishers, Cable sp1, Apocalypse, etc.).
    4. You don’t have to worry about re-parrying with Horseman Gambit, all of his blocks are perfect blocks.
    And without losing said perfect block, his damage is fiery garbage, and he can't avoid a lot of other damage like Cap can through his own shrugging abilities among others.
    Why does it matter if his damage is garbage if he can get out of every fight with his health untouched? 😂
    every fight? bruh
    If someone is that desperate for damage they can run the suicide masteries or just play Gambit normally. Gambit hits hard with his prowesses on special attacks, and since his buff each prowess buff grants crit damage, making both his special and basic attack hits have higher crit damage.
    when did I say anything about damage?
  • Options
    BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,263 ★★★★★

    BuffBeast said:

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW vs any multi hit special isn’t possible to reparry. 0 block damage is pretty crazy. Especially when you don’t need to parry or anything. Just hold block for a few seconds and 0 block damage
    You do realize this utility is easily undermined by these magical things called “heavy attacks” and “unblockable special attacks” yes zero block damage is nice but it’s rendered useless if you’re backed into a corner and the opponent is unblockable or has a 3-6 hit or whatever heavy attack. You’re guaranteed to screw up at some point and thinking that you can rely on this utility more than parry/heaving is kinda obscene. Besides, it’s not like you’re taking 100k block damage
    Then maybe don’t use him vs unblockable special attacks??? How do people seriously make arguments about nodes that counter champions’ abilities to bring down the value of that champion?

    Obviously, a champion will have weaknesses, or else they’d be broken. MCOC is supposed to be a balanced game. Literally common sense.

    You can’t bring down the value of a champ like Doom saying he’s not as good because he can’t counter biohazard. That’s not part of his kit, he’s not intended to counter that.
    Lol exactly

    QuAke is BaD bEcAuSe trUe StRikE ExiSts
    I hate it so much when someone brings down the value of a champion because they can’t counter x node. MCOC is intended to be a balanced game, not a broken one. Quake’s value shouldn’t and rightfully doesn’t go down because true strike nodes and encounters exist. The same applies for all other champs and their weaknesses, which cause for a balanced game that I think most players want.
    It’s ridiculous because the point of the game is to have a variety of champions to solve different problems. If you can’t block unblockable with gambit or deal with multi hit specials, take someone else who can on the team. Use gambit for what he’s good for.

    Doom is **** because you can’t use him against evaders, Ghost is **** because she can’t work for armour break, quake can’t do true strike.

    So use Doom for armour breakers, use ghost for true strike and quake for evaders. Like Christ, gambit had clear insane utility. Kabam nerfed that utility years ago in perfect block teams because it was so crazy overpowered and now people say it’s useless.

    Theres a reason everyone used perfect block teams
  • Options
    BlackTuranBlackTuran Posts: 654 ★★★

    BuffBeast said:

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW vs any multi hit special isn’t possible to reparry. 0 block damage is pretty crazy. Especially when you don’t need to parry or anything. Just hold block for a few seconds and 0 block damage
    You do realize this utility is easily undermined by these magical things called “heavy attacks” and “unblockable special attacks” yes zero block damage is nice but it’s rendered useless if you’re backed into a corner and the opponent is unblockable or has a 3-6 hit or whatever heavy attack. You’re guaranteed to screw up at some point and thinking that you can rely on this utility more than parry/heaving is kinda obscene. Besides, it’s not like you’re taking 100k block damage
    Then maybe don’t use him vs unblockable special attacks??? How do people seriously make arguments about nodes that counter champions’ abilities to bring down the value of that champion?

    Obviously, a champion will have weaknesses, or else they’d be broken. MCOC is supposed to be a balanced game. Literally common sense.

    You can’t bring down the value of a champ like Doom saying he’s not as good because he can’t counter biohazard. That’s not part of his kit, he’s not intended to counter that.
    Lol exactly

    QuAke is BaD bEcAuSe trUe StRikE ExiSts
    I hate it so much when someone brings down the value of a champion because they can’t counter x node. MCOC is intended to be a balanced game, not a broken one. Quake’s value shouldn’t and rightfully doesn’t go down because true strike nodes and encounters exist. The same applies for all other champs and their weaknesses, which cause for a balanced game that I think most players want.
    again, it's not that there a couple of things that negate Gambit's value, it's that other than thorns and nodes having to do with block proficiency decay, he doesn't counter anything relevant
  • Options
    KDSuperFlash10KDSuperFlash10 Posts: 5,869 ★★★★★
    YoMoves said:

    BuffBeast said:

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW vs any multi hit special isn’t possible to reparry. 0 block damage is pretty crazy. Especially when you don’t need to parry or anything. Just hold block for a few seconds and 0 block damage
    You do realize this utility is easily undermined by these magical things called “heavy attacks” and “unblockable special attacks” yes zero block damage is nice but it’s rendered useless if you’re backed into a corner and the opponent is unblockable or has a 3-6 hit or whatever heavy attack. You’re guaranteed to screw up at some point and thinking that you can rely on this utility more than parry/heaving is kinda obscene. Besides, it’s not like you’re taking 100k block damage
    Then maybe don’t use him vs unblockable special attacks??? How do people seriously make arguments about nodes that counter champions’ abilities to bring down the value of that champion?

    Obviously, a champion will have weaknesses, or else they’d be broken. MCOC is supposed to be a balanced game. Literally common sense.

    You can’t bring down the value of a champ like Doom saying he’s not as good because he can’t counter biohazard. That’s not part of his kit, he’s not intended to counter that.
    Please listen to your own preaching.

    You can't bring down the value of a champ like CapIW saying he's not as good because he can't counter impossible to dex special attacks. He's still better than Gambit in plenty of obvious ways but you are stuck on this.
    I literally never brought down the value of Cap IW. He’s a fantastic champion who can do a lot of stuff, some better than Gambit, some worse. In this post, I never compared Cap IW and Gambit, I merely wanted to list my top 5 champs per class. Both are phenomenal champions, I have no reason to bring down any of them. I just answered @BlackTuran ’s point comparing the perfect block mechanics, specifically, of Cap IW and Horseman Gambit. Obviously Cap IW can do a ton of things Gambit can’t, like apply armor breaks petrifies weaknesses purify debuffs and hits much harder, while Gambit can do things Cap IW can’t like counter thorns heal from bleed debuffs reduce combat power rate and perfect block all attacks. It’s part of the greatness of this game, in that all champions can do unique things.
  • Options
    BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,263 ★★★★★

    BuffBeast said:

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW vs any multi hit special isn’t possible to reparry. 0 block damage is pretty crazy. Especially when you don’t need to parry or anything. Just hold block for a few seconds and 0 block damage
    You do realize this utility is easily undermined by these magical things called “heavy attacks” and “unblockable special attacks” yes zero block damage is nice but it’s rendered useless if you’re backed into a corner and the opponent is unblockable or has a 3-6 hit or whatever heavy attack. You’re guaranteed to screw up at some point and thinking that you can rely on this utility more than parry/heaving is kinda obscene. Besides, it’s not like you’re taking 100k block damage
    Then maybe don’t use him vs unblockable special attacks??? How do people seriously make arguments about nodes that counter champions’ abilities to bring down the value of that champion?

    Obviously, a champion will have weaknesses, or else they’d be broken. MCOC is supposed to be a balanced game. Literally common sense.

    You can’t bring down the value of a champ like Doom saying he’s not as good because he can’t counter biohazard. That’s not part of his kit, he’s not intended to counter that.
    Lol exactly

    QuAke is BaD bEcAuSe trUe StRikE ExiSts
    I hate it so much when someone brings down the value of a champion because they can’t counter x node. MCOC is intended to be a balanced game, not a broken one. Quake’s value shouldn’t and rightfully doesn’t go down because true strike nodes and encounters exist. The same applies for all other champs and their weaknesses, which cause for a balanced game that I think most players want.
    again, it's not that there a couple of things that negate Gambit's value, it's that other than thorns and nodes having to do with block proficiency decay, he doesn't counter anything relevant
    There’s no proper end game content in game at the moment. I’m not guaranteeing he will be the best for summer of pain, but I’d wait and hold your judgement.

    All we have at the moment is abyss- which is a test of damage, not keeping your health, act 6- which damage (and therefore block damage) has been nerfed so gambits usefulness has been reduced there, and act 7- which just isn’t anywhere near how difficult end games players expect.

    Wait for some really hard content with awful block damage, and while everyone is quaking and ghosting their way through it. Gambit will be happily holding block
  • Options
    KDSuperFlash10KDSuperFlash10 Posts: 5,869 ★★★★★
    ...and I’ve been sent to the abyss of approval

    waste of 3 minutes writing up something that’s now gone :/
  • Options
    MasterpuffMasterpuff Posts: 6,466 ★★★★★

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW vs any multi hit special isn’t possible to reparry. 0 block damage is pretty crazy. Especially when you don’t need to parry or anything. Just hold block for a few seconds and 0 block damage
    again, show me one piece of content where the damage from taking a special on the block is a big problem other than incursions
    6.3 and 6.4 can hurt quite a bit on the block. I’m sure future story and variant content that Gambit works for will be the same or worse block damage.

    YoMoves said:

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW’s perfect block is very different to Gambit’s:
    1. Cap IW’s perfect block is based on his block proficiency, meaning it can be reduced by nodes like soft guard. Horseman Gambit’s perfect block is not based on block proficiency, it’s simply a perfect block.
    2. Because Cap IW’s perfect block is based on his block proficiency, he can’t achieve longer combos in the parry stun like champs like Morningstar and Magneto can. Horseman Gambit is similar to those champs in that his perfect block (being not based on block prof) extends his parry stun to allow 9 hit combos.
    3. You can’t parry every hit of a multi hit special attack with Cap IW. With Horseman Gambit, you don’t even have to worry about partying in the first place, as he will block the entire special attack and take 0 damage (great for Punishers, Cable sp1, Apocalypse, etc.).
    4. You don’t have to worry about re-parrying with Horseman Gambit, all of his blocks are perfect blocks.
    And without losing said perfect block, his damage is fiery garbage, and he can't avoid a lot of other damage like Cap can through his own shrugging abilities among others.
    Why does it matter if his damage is garbage if he can get out of every fight with his health untouched? 😂
    Yeah dot and mess ups / unblockable totally don’t exist.
    ^
    Ever heard of intercepting? Skilled players use it.
  • Options
    BlackTuranBlackTuran Posts: 654 ★★★
    here's the thing, @KDSuperFlash10 , the perfect block mechanic is nice but how many nodes or node combinations does Gambit counter that other champs don't? If you just said that you like Gambit, I wouldn't care, but you put him number 2 of the mutant class. He counters thorns, and he doesn't take damage from block. Those 2 things alone absolutely do not put a champ at number 2.
  • Options
    MrInsanityMrInsanity Posts: 1,539 ★★★★
    edited March 2021

    YoMoves said:

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW’s perfect block is very different to Gambit’s:
    1. Cap IW’s perfect block is based on his block proficiency, meaning it can be reduced by nodes like soft guard. Horseman Gambit’s perfect block is not based on block proficiency, it’s simply a perfect block.
    2. Because Cap IW’s perfect block is based on his block proficiency, he can’t achieve longer combos in the parry stun like champs like Morningstar and Magneto can. Horseman Gambit is similar to those champs in that his perfect block (being not based on block prof) extends his parry stun to allow 9 hit combos.
    3. You can’t parry every hit of a multi hit special attack with Cap IW. With Horseman Gambit, you don’t even have to worry about partying in the first place, as he will block the entire special attack and take 0 damage (great for Punishers, Cable sp1, Apocalypse, etc.).
    4. You don’t have to worry about re-parrying with Horseman Gambit, all of his blocks are perfect blocks.
    And without losing said perfect block, his damage is fiery garbage, and he can't avoid a lot of other damage like Cap can through his own shrugging abilities among others.
    Why does it matter if his damage is garbage if he can get out of every fight with his health untouched? 😂
    So what is your opinion on Dormammu? He has awesome utility with being double immune + extremely good power control, decent damage with soul detonation, and has access to very good regeneration that he can use to make his health go back to 100% at the end of every fight.
    Also, it's not every fight, you are acting like block damage is the biggest damage that can be dealt to you, it's really not. Things like getting hit due to a misplay, getting hit by an SP3 due to power gain or degeneration since you didn't do x or y are where you take the most damage.
  • Options
    KDSuperFlash10KDSuperFlash10 Posts: 5,869 ★★★★★

    BuffBeast said:

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW vs any multi hit special isn’t possible to reparry. 0 block damage is pretty crazy. Especially when you don’t need to parry or anything. Just hold block for a few seconds and 0 block damage
    You do realize this utility is easily undermined by these magical things called “heavy attacks” and “unblockable special attacks” yes zero block damage is nice but it’s rendered useless if you’re backed into a corner and the opponent is unblockable or has a 3-6 hit or whatever heavy attack. You’re guaranteed to screw up at some point and thinking that you can rely on this utility more than parry/heaving is kinda obscene. Besides, it’s not like you’re taking 100k block damage
    Then maybe don’t use him vs unblockable special attacks??? How do people seriously make arguments about nodes that counter champions’ abilities to bring down the value of that champion?

    Obviously, a champion will have weaknesses, or else they’d be broken. MCOC is supposed to be a balanced game. Literally common sense.

    You can’t bring down the value of a champ like Doom saying he’s not as good because he can’t counter biohazard. That’s not part of his kit, he’s not intended to counter that.
    Lol exactly

    QuAke is BaD bEcAuSe trUe StRikE ExiSts
    I hate it so much when someone brings down the value of a champion because they can’t counter x node. MCOC is intended to be a balanced game, not a broken one. Quake’s value shouldn’t and rightfully doesn’t go down because true strike nodes and encounters exist. The same applies for all other champs and their weaknesses, which cause for a balanced game that I think most players want.
    It’s ridiculous because the point of the game is to have a variety of champions to solve different problems. If you can’t block unblockable with gambit or deal with multi hit specials, take someone else who can on the team. Use gambit for what he’s good for.

    Doom is **** because you can’t use him against evaders, Ghost is **** because she can’t work for armour break, quake can’t do true strike.

    So use Doom for armour breakers, use ghost for true strike and quake for evaders. Like Christ, gambit had clear insane utility. Kabam nerfed that utility years ago in perfect block teams because it was so crazy overpowered and now people say it’s useless.

    Theres a reason everyone used perfect block teams
    Spot on. Different champs counter different things. Just because Gambit is a strong utility champion doesn’t mean he counters literally every node that exists in the game. No champion should be able to do that, and thankfully no champion does. It’s part of the greatness and balance of this game.
  • Options
    KDSuperFlash10KDSuperFlash10 Posts: 5,869 ★★★★★

    BuffBeast said:

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW vs any multi hit special isn’t possible to reparry. 0 block damage is pretty crazy. Especially when you don’t need to parry or anything. Just hold block for a few seconds and 0 block damage
    You do realize this utility is easily undermined by these magical things called “heavy attacks” and “unblockable special attacks” yes zero block damage is nice but it’s rendered useless if you’re backed into a corner and the opponent is unblockable or has a 3-6 hit or whatever heavy attack. You’re guaranteed to screw up at some point and thinking that you can rely on this utility more than parry/heaving is kinda obscene. Besides, it’s not like you’re taking 100k block damage
    Then maybe don’t use him vs unblockable special attacks??? How do people seriously make arguments about nodes that counter champions’ abilities to bring down the value of that champion?

    Obviously, a champion will have weaknesses, or else they’d be broken. MCOC is supposed to be a balanced game. Literally common sense.

    You can’t bring down the value of a champ like Doom saying he’s not as good because he can’t counter biohazard. That’s not part of his kit, he’s not intended to counter that.
    Lol exactly

    QuAke is BaD bEcAuSe trUe StRikE ExiSts
    I hate it so much when someone brings down the value of a champion because they can’t counter x node. MCOC is intended to be a balanced game, not a broken one. Quake’s value shouldn’t and rightfully doesn’t go down because true strike nodes and encounters exist. The same applies for all other champs and their weaknesses, which cause for a balanced game that I think most players want.
    again, it's not that there a couple of things that negate Gambit's value, it's that other than thorns and nodes having to do with block proficiency decay, he doesn't counter anything relevant
    I wrote up something pretty long to reply to this but it was sent to the abyss of approval, so I guess I’ll say something shorter.

    You can’t take out the 2 biggest pieces of utility in Gambit’s kit and say “he doesn’t counter anything relevant”. That’s like saying if you remove Corvus’ immortality or Doom’s power and buff control, they don’t counter anything relevant, which is simply not true.
  • Options
    BlackTuranBlackTuran Posts: 654 ★★★

    BuffBeast said:

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW vs any multi hit special isn’t possible to reparry. 0 block damage is pretty crazy. Especially when you don’t need to parry or anything. Just hold block for a few seconds and 0 block damage
    You do realize this utility is easily undermined by these magical things called “heavy attacks” and “unblockable special attacks” yes zero block damage is nice but it’s rendered useless if you’re backed into a corner and the opponent is unblockable or has a 3-6 hit or whatever heavy attack. You’re guaranteed to screw up at some point and thinking that you can rely on this utility more than parry/heaving is kinda obscene. Besides, it’s not like you’re taking 100k block damage
    Then maybe don’t use him vs unblockable special attacks??? How do people seriously make arguments about nodes that counter champions’ abilities to bring down the value of that champion?

    Obviously, a champion will have weaknesses, or else they’d be broken. MCOC is supposed to be a balanced game. Literally common sense.

    You can’t bring down the value of a champ like Doom saying he’s not as good because he can’t counter biohazard. That’s not part of his kit, he’s not intended to counter that.
    Lol exactly

    QuAke is BaD bEcAuSe trUe StRikE ExiSts
    I hate it so much when someone brings down the value of a champion because they can’t counter x node. MCOC is intended to be a balanced game, not a broken one. Quake’s value shouldn’t and rightfully doesn’t go down because true strike nodes and encounters exist. The same applies for all other champs and their weaknesses, which cause for a balanced game that I think most players want.
    again, it's not that there a couple of things that negate Gambit's value, it's that other than thorns and nodes having to do with block proficiency decay, he doesn't counter anything relevant
    There’s no proper end game content in game at the moment. I’m not guaranteeing he will be the best for summer of pain, but I’d wait and hold your judgement.

    All we have at the moment is abyss- which is a test of damage, not keeping your health, act 6- which damage (and therefore block damage) has been nerfed so gambits usefulness has been reduced there, and act 7- which just isn’t anywhere near how difficult end games players expect.

    Wait for some really hard content with awful block damage, and while everyone is quaking and ghosting their way through it. Gambit will be happily holding block

    if this next endgame content is truly that difficult, then there surely will be nodes that Gambit can't handle all over it since he has no utility other than perfect block and thorns counter. Do not put his name next to Quake and Ghost ever again
  • Options
    MasterpuffMasterpuff Posts: 6,466 ★★★★★

    BuffBeast said:

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW vs any multi hit special isn’t possible to reparry. 0 block damage is pretty crazy. Especially when you don’t need to parry or anything. Just hold block for a few seconds and 0 block damage
    You do realize this utility is easily undermined by these magical things called “heavy attacks” and “unblockable special attacks” yes zero block damage is nice but it’s rendered useless if you’re backed into a corner and the opponent is unblockable or has a 3-6 hit or whatever heavy attack. You’re guaranteed to screw up at some point and thinking that you can rely on this utility more than parry/heaving is kinda obscene. Besides, it’s not like you’re taking 100k block damage
    Then maybe don’t use him vs unblockable special attacks??? How do people seriously make arguments about nodes that counter champions’ abilities to bring down the value of that champion?

    Obviously, a champion will have weaknesses, or else they’d be broken. MCOC is supposed to be a balanced game. Literally common sense.

    You can’t bring down the value of a champ like Doom saying he’s not as good because he can’t counter biohazard. That’s not part of his kit, he’s not intended to counter that.
    Lol exactly

    QuAke is BaD bEcAuSe trUe StRikE ExiSts
    I hate it so much when someone brings down the value of a champion because they can’t counter x node. MCOC is intended to be a balanced game, not a broken one. Quake’s value shouldn’t and rightfully doesn’t go down because true strike nodes and encounters exist. The same applies for all other champs and their weaknesses, which cause for a balanced game that I think most players want.
    again, it's not that there a couple of things that negate Gambit's value, it's that other than thorns and nodes having to do with block proficiency decay, he doesn't counter anything relevant
    I wrote up something pretty long to reply to this but it was sent to the abyss of approval, so I guess I’ll say something shorter.

    You can’t take out the 2 biggest pieces of utility in Gambit’s kit and say “he doesn’t counter anything relevant”. That’s like saying if you remove Corvus’ immortality or Doom’s power and buff control, they don’t counter anything relevant, which is simply not true.
    Those two pieces of utility are wayyyyyyy more useful than the 2 gambit ones doe.
  • Options
    KDSuperFlash10KDSuperFlash10 Posts: 5,869 ★★★★★
    edited March 2021

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW vs any multi hit special isn’t possible to reparry. 0 block damage is pretty crazy. Especially when you don’t need to parry or anything. Just hold block for a few seconds and 0 block damage
    again, show me one piece of content where the damage from taking a special on the block is a big problem other than incursions
    6.3 and 6.4 can hurt quite a bit on the block. I’m sure future story and variant content that Gambit works for will be the same or worse block damage.

    YoMoves said:

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW’s perfect block is very different to Gambit’s:
    1. Cap IW’s perfect block is based on his block proficiency, meaning it can be reduced by nodes like soft guard. Horseman Gambit’s perfect block is not based on block proficiency, it’s simply a perfect block.
    2. Because Cap IW’s perfect block is based on his block proficiency, he can’t achieve longer combos in the parry stun like champs like Morningstar and Magneto can. Horseman Gambit is similar to those champs in that his perfect block (being not based on block prof) extends his parry stun to allow 9 hit combos.
    3. You can’t parry every hit of a multi hit special attack with Cap IW. With Horseman Gambit, you don’t even have to worry about partying in the first place, as he will block the entire special attack and take 0 damage (great for Punishers, Cable sp1, Apocalypse, etc.).
    4. You don’t have to worry about re-parrying with Horseman Gambit, all of his blocks are perfect blocks.
    And without losing said perfect block, his damage is fiery garbage, and he can't avoid a lot of other damage like Cap can through his own shrugging abilities among others.
    Why does it matter if his damage is garbage if he can get out of every fight with his health untouched? 😂
    Yeah dot and mess ups / unblockable totally don’t exist.
    ^
    Ever heard of intercepting? Skilled players use it.
    The hell’s that supposed to mean? So because intercepts are things that people can use in MCOC, that should bring down all defensive utility? Awful argument i’m ngl.

    So because intercepting exists, Tigra’s miss ability, Corvus’ immortality, Horseman Gambit’s perfect block, and all other powerful defensive abilities are rendered irrelevant? Yeah big statement there buddy, especially for someone who values Corvus over CGR. To go by your logic, why don’t you intercept then so you don’t reach 1% HP in the first place? After all, skilled players do it.
  • Options
    BlackTuranBlackTuran Posts: 654 ★★★

    BuffBeast said:

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW vs any multi hit special isn’t possible to reparry. 0 block damage is pretty crazy. Especially when you don’t need to parry or anything. Just hold block for a few seconds and 0 block damage
    You do realize this utility is easily undermined by these magical things called “heavy attacks” and “unblockable special attacks” yes zero block damage is nice but it’s rendered useless if you’re backed into a corner and the opponent is unblockable or has a 3-6 hit or whatever heavy attack. You’re guaranteed to screw up at some point and thinking that you can rely on this utility more than parry/heaving is kinda obscene. Besides, it’s not like you’re taking 100k block damage
    Then maybe don’t use him vs unblockable special attacks??? How do people seriously make arguments about nodes that counter champions’ abilities to bring down the value of that champion?

    Obviously, a champion will have weaknesses, or else they’d be broken. MCOC is supposed to be a balanced game. Literally common sense.

    You can’t bring down the value of a champ like Doom saying he’s not as good because he can’t counter biohazard. That’s not part of his kit, he’s not intended to counter that.
    Lol exactly

    QuAke is BaD bEcAuSe trUe StRikE ExiSts
    I hate it so much when someone brings down the value of a champion because they can’t counter x node. MCOC is intended to be a balanced game, not a broken one. Quake’s value shouldn’t and rightfully doesn’t go down because true strike nodes and encounters exist. The same applies for all other champs and their weaknesses, which cause for a balanced game that I think most players want.
    again, it's not that there a couple of things that negate Gambit's value, it's that other than thorns and nodes having to do with block proficiency decay, he doesn't counter anything relevant
    Biohazard, caltrops, special connoisseur, the list goes on.

    That’s like saying “other than Corvus’ immortality, Corvus doesn’t counter anything relevant”. You just eliminated the 2 biggest utilities in Gambit’s kit (anti-thorns and perfect block), which counter a ton of things, to bring down his value saying that his other, smaller pieces of utility don't counter as much stuff.

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW vs any multi hit special isn’t possible to reparry. 0 block damage is pretty crazy. Especially when you don’t need to parry or anything. Just hold block for a few seconds and 0 block damage
    again, show me one piece of content where the damage from taking a special on the block is a big problem other than incursions
    6.3 and 6.4 can hurt quite a bit on the block. I’m sure future story and variant content that Gambit works for will be the same or worse block damage.

    YoMoves said:

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW’s perfect block is very different to Gambit’s:
    1. Cap IW’s perfect block is based on his block proficiency, meaning it can be reduced by nodes like soft guard. Horseman Gambit’s perfect block is not based on block proficiency, it’s simply a perfect block.
    2. Because Cap IW’s perfect block is based on his block proficiency, he can’t achieve longer combos in the parry stun like champs like Morningstar and Magneto can. Horseman Gambit is similar to those champs in that his perfect block (being not based on block prof) extends his parry stun to allow 9 hit combos.
    3. You can’t parry every hit of a multi hit special attack with Cap IW. With Horseman Gambit, you don’t even have to worry about partying in the first place, as he will block the entire special attack and take 0 damage (great for Punishers, Cable sp1, Apocalypse, etc.).
    4. You don’t have to worry about re-parrying with Horseman Gambit, all of his blocks are perfect blocks.
    And without losing said perfect block, his damage is fiery garbage, and he can't avoid a lot of other damage like Cap can through his own shrugging abilities among others.
    Why does it matter if his damage is garbage if he can get out of every fight with his health untouched? 😂
    Yeah dot and mess ups / unblockable totally don’t exist.
    ^
    Ever heard of intercepting? Skilled players use it.
    The hell’s that supposed to mean? So because intercepts are things that people can use in MCOC, that should bring down all defensive utility? Awful argument i’m ngl.
    literally any horseman can counter those nodes
  • Options
    MasterpuffMasterpuff Posts: 6,466 ★★★★★

    BuffBeast said:

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW vs any multi hit special isn’t possible to reparry. 0 block damage is pretty crazy. Especially when you don’t need to parry or anything. Just hold block for a few seconds and 0 block damage
    You do realize this utility is easily undermined by these magical things called “heavy attacks” and “unblockable special attacks” yes zero block damage is nice but it’s rendered useless if you’re backed into a corner and the opponent is unblockable or has a 3-6 hit or whatever heavy attack. You’re guaranteed to screw up at some point and thinking that you can rely on this utility more than parry/heaving is kinda obscene. Besides, it’s not like you’re taking 100k block damage
    Then maybe don’t use him vs unblockable special attacks??? How do people seriously make arguments about nodes that counter champions’ abilities to bring down the value of that champion?

    Obviously, a champion will have weaknesses, or else they’d be broken. MCOC is supposed to be a balanced game. Literally common sense.

    You can’t bring down the value of a champ like Doom saying he’s not as good because he can’t counter biohazard. That’s not part of his kit, he’s not intended to counter that.
    Lol exactly

    QuAke is BaD bEcAuSe trUe StRikE ExiSts
    I hate it so much when someone brings down the value of a champion because they can’t counter x node. MCOC is intended to be a balanced game, not a broken one. Quake’s value shouldn’t and rightfully doesn’t go down because true strike nodes and encounters exist. The same applies for all other champs and their weaknesses, which cause for a balanced game that I think most players want.
    again, it's not that there a couple of things that negate Gambit's value, it's that other than thorns and nodes having to do with block proficiency decay, he doesn't counter anything relevant
    Biohazard, caltrops, special connoisseur, the list goes on.

    That’s like saying “other than Corvus’ immortality, Corvus doesn’t counter anything relevant”. You just eliminated the 2 biggest utilities in Gambit’s kit (anti-thorns and perfect block), which counter a ton of things, to bring down his value saying that his other, smaller pieces of utility don't counter as much stuff.

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW vs any multi hit special isn’t possible to reparry. 0 block damage is pretty crazy. Especially when you don’t need to parry or anything. Just hold block for a few seconds and 0 block damage
    again, show me one piece of content where the damage from taking a special on the block is a big problem other than incursions
    6.3 and 6.4 can hurt quite a bit on the block. I’m sure future story and variant content that Gambit works for will be the same or worse block damage.

    YoMoves said:

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW’s perfect block is very different to Gambit’s:
    1. Cap IW’s perfect block is based on his block proficiency, meaning it can be reduced by nodes like soft guard. Horseman Gambit’s perfect block is not based on block proficiency, it’s simply a perfect block.
    2. Because Cap IW’s perfect block is based on his block proficiency, he can’t achieve longer combos in the parry stun like champs like Morningstar and Magneto can. Horseman Gambit is similar to those champs in that his perfect block (being not based on block prof) extends his parry stun to allow 9 hit combos.
    3. You can’t parry every hit of a multi hit special attack with Cap IW. With Horseman Gambit, you don’t even have to worry about partying in the first place, as he will block the entire special attack and take 0 damage (great for Punishers, Cable sp1, Apocalypse, etc.).
    4. You don’t have to worry about re-parrying with Horseman Gambit, all of his blocks are perfect blocks.
    And without losing said perfect block, his damage is fiery garbage, and he can't avoid a lot of other damage like Cap can through his own shrugging abilities among others.
    Why does it matter if his damage is garbage if he can get out of every fight with his health untouched? 😂
    Yeah dot and mess ups / unblockable totally don’t exist.
    ^
    Ever heard of intercepting? Skilled players use it.
    The hell’s that supposed to mean? So because intercepts are things that people can use in MCOC, that should bring down all defensive utility? Awful argument i’m ngl.
    Awful argues my ***. This ability is not as useful as you make it seem. Like Turan pointed out. It doesnt realistically counter many things in the game. Plus, its a safer way to avoid block damage, like intercepting.
  • Options
    KDSuperFlash10KDSuperFlash10 Posts: 5,869 ★★★★★

    YoMoves said:

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW’s perfect block is very different to Gambit’s:
    1. Cap IW’s perfect block is based on his block proficiency, meaning it can be reduced by nodes like soft guard. Horseman Gambit’s perfect block is not based on block proficiency, it’s simply a perfect block.
    2. Because Cap IW’s perfect block is based on his block proficiency, he can’t achieve longer combos in the parry stun like champs like Morningstar and Magneto can. Horseman Gambit is similar to those champs in that his perfect block (being not based on block prof) extends his parry stun to allow 9 hit combos.
    3. You can’t parry every hit of a multi hit special attack with Cap IW. With Horseman Gambit, you don’t even have to worry about partying in the first place, as he will block the entire special attack and take 0 damage (great for Punishers, Cable sp1, Apocalypse, etc.).
    4. You don’t have to worry about re-parrying with Horseman Gambit, all of his blocks are perfect blocks.
    And without losing said perfect block, his damage is fiery garbage, and he can't avoid a lot of other damage like Cap can through his own shrugging abilities among others.
    Why does it matter if his damage is garbage if he can get out of every fight with his health untouched? 😂
    So what is your opinion on Dormammu? He has awesome utility with being double immune + extremely good power control, decent damage with soul detonation, and has access to very good regeneration that he can use to make his health go back to 100% at the end of every fight.
    Also, it's not every fight, you are acting like block damage is the biggest damage that can be dealt to you, it's really not. Things like getting hit due to a misplay, getting hit by an SP3 due to power gain or degeneration since you didn't do x or y are where you take the most damage.
    Other champs power control better than Dormammu while finishing fights much faster. No one perfect blocks better than Horseman Gambit.
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    BuffBeastBuffBeast Posts: 1,075 ★★★★

    BuffBeast said:

    @KDSuperFlash10 tell me something: other than like towards the end of sector 8 incursions, where do you actually need Gambit's not taking damage from block? So far, that's the only thing everybody seems to be talking about and if that's the only thing going for him, why did you put Cap IW as the 4th in science class as he does 100x more than Gambit does while not needing any rampup, synergies or awakened ability to not take damage from parries?

    Cap IW takes 0 damage on all well-timed blocks. Horseman Gambit takes 0 damage on all blocked attacks. It’s incredibly strong. Though the fights take longer than a high DPS champion, he can stay at 100% health for virtually the entire fight. I used him quite a bit in 6.4 exploration, and he was most useful on the lifecycle/soft guard/rage path in 6.4.6. He countered all of those nodes because 1. he doesn’t do enough damage on his basic attacks to trigger rage 2. his perfect block negates soft guard 3. because his perfect block negates soft guard he can freely parry and knock the opponent down to extend the lifecycle timer. I got a real sense of Horsmean Gambit’s power on this lane, especially on the Killmonger mini, who had all of the above nodes + sharpened claws and something else. Not to worry for Gambit who completed shut down KM’s reverberation because of his anti-thorns mechanic and actually healed from KM’s bleeds from sharpened claws due to his 150% bleed resistance (I tried with Omega and even with the 90% bleed resistance I was losing a bit of heath from the bleeds). I really do feel that Gambit, especially as a horseman, is very underappreciated.
    I don't see your point about Cap IW, just parry/reparry everything to not take damage
    Cap IW vs any multi hit special isn’t possible to reparry. 0 block damage is pretty crazy. Especially when you don’t need to parry or anything. Just hold block for a few seconds and 0 block damage
    You do realize this utility is easily undermined by these magical things called “heavy attacks” and “unblockable special attacks” yes zero block damage is nice but it’s rendered useless if you’re backed into a corner and the opponent is unblockable or has a 3-6 hit or whatever heavy attack. You’re guaranteed to screw up at some point and thinking that you can rely on this utility more than parry/heaving is kinda obscene. Besides, it’s not like you’re taking 100k block damage
    Then maybe don’t use him vs unblockable special attacks??? How do people seriously make arguments about nodes that counter champions’ abilities to bring down the value of that champion?

    Obviously, a champion will have weaknesses, or else they’d be broken. MCOC is supposed to be a balanced game. Literally common sense.

    You can’t bring down the value of a champ like Doom saying he’s not as good because he can’t counter biohazard. That’s not part of his kit, he’s not intended to counter that.
    Jesus, you couldn’t have made a dumber statement. You’ve traced back to my first argument and actually made a point for me. Originally, I pointed out what I thought to be an inconsistency in your list. I (basically) said “you may aswell include fully ramped up Aegon since horsemen gambit is on your list” you then say that they are both incomparable since Aegon has longer ramp up. (You also talk about skill not being included in the list despite me not mentioning skill??? Someone pointed out that quake shouldn’t be on the list in that case since skill isn’t being taken into consideration) fast forward a bit, you talk about gambits godly horsemen utility that earns him a spot at #2 in the mutant category. It’s pointed out that CAIW has perfect blocks but that’s dismissed because you can’t reparry specials (ok?) I make a point by saying that gambits utility can be bypassed by unblockable specials and long heavies. Now, this is where it gets good.

    “Then maybe don’t use him (gambit) vs unblockable special attacks??? How do people seriously make arguments about nodes that counter champions’ abilities to bring down the value of that champion?”

    “You can’t bring down the value of a champ like Doom saying he’s not as good because he can’t counter biohazard. That’s not part of his kit, he’s not intended to counter that.“

    The same thing can be said about both
    Aegon and CAIW. You bring down caps value because he can’t perfectly block specials like gambit. You ALSO bring down Aegons value because he “takes too long to fully ramp up” but his kit isn’t intended for a normal quest, so how does that make sense? You said it yourself man, you found a way to beat yourself in an argument.
    Also, if perfect blocks (and damage hence the #1 CGR placement) are so important, then why is guardian tied with HB on 5th? Lmfao
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    MasterpuffMasterpuff Posts: 6,466 ★★★★★
    Show me somewhere in game other than incursions where Gambit’s perfect block is more broken than Magneto. Please, be my guest.
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    I like how a week ago, iHulk was still trash. Now people are putting him in a top 5 science list?
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