I think the idea of shifting milestones to the Summoner Trials arena was because of it being an amalgam of the previous 2/3/4* arenas.
The math is fine. We had 265 earlier and 270 units now after combining the 2/3/4 star arenas. But the problem is the milestone is really too high. 4.4 mill using only 4 stars is a tall ask. Especially when 4 stars are out of the meta for even new players real quick. Kabam have increased the points for 3 stars, but they don't give the same points as a 4 stars. They either need to bring down the milestone to 3 mill or give the same amount of points for both 3 and 4 stars. 1.5 mill for 135 units was for earlier arena, so 3 mill points For 270 units seems reasonable to me.
The new Trials arena compares reasonably well with the original 2* 3* 4* arenas that it replaces in terms of effort vs units. Factoring in the other reward increases, it is arguably better. Also, to the extent that the original arenas had a slightly better unit return per round, only players who were getting everything in the three older arenas and now are attempting to get everything from the new trials arena would be able to notice. Players who were getting only some of the units from the older arenas are actually better off in the new Trials.
We stopped ranking 5s because they're not useful and the game moved on a long time ago, except for this annoyingly backwards arena that somehow rewards the rarest in-game prizes to the loudest and relatively most unambitious group of players in the game.
1. The cutoff is going higher because *players* have decided it is worth it. Ask them. Or, I'll help you out there: I think it is worth it, so I'm willing to aim for those numbers as well (although I'm still adjusting to the moving cutoff). The cut off is what we decide it will be, based on how much effort we decide the rewards are worth.
2. Apparently, *you* stopped ranking 5s, but a few thousand others didn't.
3. The "rarest in-game prizes" are not going to the loudest and relatively unambitious players. For the most part they are going to players who don't debate the arenas, they play them, and push very hard to win them. And if I was shooting for the Basic 6, I wouldn't be here discussing the merits of the arena structure either.
We stopped ranking 5s because they're not useful and the game moved on a long time ago, except for this annoyingly backwards arena that somehow rewards the rarest in-game prizes to the loudest and relatively most unambitious group of players in the game.
Please don't include me, the group you refer to as 'We". I never stopped ranking 5* and I am happy that others have stopped ranking 5*. Personally I can't tell the difference in content between a r2 6* and a r5 5*. It is also much easier for casual players to r5 and max sig a 5* champ.
I use my r5's in all content and now my commitment to 5* is even more beneficial. Heck in the feature arena I can get the 5* champ for 1 or 2 days grind vs the previous 3 day commitment.
Also I think Brian Grant released a video within the last couple of months exposing a possible fallacy of 5* not being useful .
I think the idea of shifting milestones to the Summoner Trials arena was because of it being an amalgam of the previous 2/3/4* arenas.
The math is fine. We had 265 earlier and 270 units now after combining the 2/3/4 star arenas. But the problem is the milestone is really too high. 4.4 mill using only 4 stars is a tall ask. Especially when 4 stars are out of the meta for even new players real quick. Kabam have increased the points for 3 stars, but they don't give the same points as a 4 stars. They either need to bring down the milestone to 3 mill or give the same amount of points for both 3 and 4 stars. 1.5 mill for 135 units was for earlier arena, so 3 mill points For 270 units seems reasonable to me.
The new Trials arena compares reasonably well with the original 2* 3* 4* arenas that it replaces in terms of effort vs units. Factoring in the other reward increases, it is arguably better. Also, to the extent that the original arenas had a slightly better unit return per round, only players who were getting everything in the three older arenas and now are attempting to get everything from the new trials arena would be able to notice. Players who were getting only some of the units from the older arenas are actually better off in the new Trials.
If the top milestone was 3 million instead, the unit earning rate of the new Trials would be dramatically better than it was before.
I was someone who ignored 2 star arenas and just blitzed through the 3 star and 4 star using boosts. I notice an increase in thr number of rounds mainly because I prefer to use 4 stars in the new arenas because they give the most points. I agree that the effort seems to be more or less same even if you grind everything, but may be the point total of 4.4 mill is what is making it seem like a higher effort than the previous arena. I will get back to full grind after july 4 and then I will know my limits.
We stopped ranking 5s because they're not useful and the game moved on a long time ago, except for this annoyingly backwards arena that somehow rewards the rarest in-game prizes to the loudest and relatively most unambitious group of players in the game.
I stopped ranking 5* a long time ago and don’t intend to go back to ranking them. Other than everything to r3 to use the t1a expiring every day.
That’s said 9-10m is not a hard target to hit for a decent reward - 1k 6* shards
In the new arena (Summoner Trials), a 3* with 1.5x boost gives the same points as a maxed 4*. If you can slot in 1 max 3* with 2 maxed 4*s, you’ll get higher overall points since you’ll be able to grind more rounds.
Personally though, I’m just happy that I’m putting in the same effort as before, and getting slightly more units + slightly more 6* shards. No stress in doing everything.
Units are there in arena ALL the time (with the exception of the 7th day) 😂
I think the idea of shifting milestones to the Summoner Trials arena was because of it being an amalgam of the previous 2/3/4* arenas.
The math is fine. We had 265 earlier and 270 units now after combining the 2/3/4 star arenas. But the problem is the milestone is really too high. 4.4 mill using only 4 stars is a tall ask. Especially when 4 stars are out of the meta for even new players real quick. Kabam have increased the points for 3 stars, but they don't give the same points as a 4 stars. They either need to bring down the milestone to 3 mill or give the same amount of points for both 3 and 4 stars. 1.5 mill for 135 units was for earlier arena, so 3 mill points For 270 units seems reasonable to me.
That’s true. But you don’t need to clock all the milestones.
For me, I used to do 1.5m for 4*B, 4.2m for 4*F and 12m for 5*F. Now I do the exact same amount for all, get slightly more units and more 6* shards. If I have more free time, I’ll do a few more milestones for 4*B.
It’s a win/win imo. There’s no loss at all compared to before unless someone has that mentality that they MUST clock all the milestones, for whatever reason.
But how do you win the vidya gaem if you don't do all the things all the time every day?
😂😂. I’ll argue that by working overtime for the amount of hours someone takes to grind all milestones across all the arenas, the overtime worker will likely be able to afford an Odin and cover the amount of units many times over.
I don’t quite understand people complaining needing more effort to get 1-5% in 6 star basic arena, the cutoff score is around 9M in 6 star basic, which means around 95 rounds if you use your r4 and r5 5 stars, in the previous system, the cutoff is around 24M, using 6 star, you may need 120 rounds or so, so the effort is less. Only loss is you get less units from milestones, but that is the unit distribution between the 3 arenas, which is a different point
I missed the top 5% even after hitting 9m+ in the basic.
And the effort isn't less since summoner trials used to take 60 rounds for 2.15m but now needs 120. I have a whale roster and doing more work for less rewards now. Very discouraging for players who grinded for years building their 6 star rosters.
On one hand I agreed with you that you can't hit top 5% with 9mm+ score in basic arena now, cause many players also think they can and thus many stop at around 10mm, turn out making a cutoff up-shift.
Whilst I disagree about the summoner trials. Under old 4* arena, I normally need to fight 120 rounds in order reach ~2.2mm score for a 4* champs. Now you can have 4mm point with similar rounds, their scoring system adjusted. (note: I didn't break any streak)
You must have used 4* boosts. I ran only r5 4* unboosted and it takes 120 rounds.
No. I used boosts and shorten the rounds to 80 only. If you divided 4.4mm by 96, you got 45k. It is the normal score with r5 4*. Just depends on how many you have. I almost collected the entire champ roaster in 4* btw.
How many points can you obtain in the first 12 rounds (cumulative)?
What are the points impact using suicides?
I don't use Suicides mastery and I don't how much more points per round. For the first 12 rounds, I can only get to ~330k, since it is Kang / Thanos from round 6 onwards using 4-Star max rank champs.
Top 100 is way too low. 140m cutoffs aren't healthy for the players. Should be 200 at minimum.
The 6* rewards in the Basic and Featured arena are competitions. It is up to the competitors to decide what is and is not reasonable effort.
Plus, 140 million today is on the order of 700 rounds. That's a lot, but people have been grinding on that level since forever. When Nightcrawler showed up in the 4* arenas five years ago there were maniacs putting up similar levels of effort to guarantee landing him. And right now it takes on the order of 25 million to get the 1-5% bracket for 1000 6* shards. That is equivalent to 10000 6* shards being worth about 250 million points of effort. Few people can do that, but those that can are getting better value for their time than I am grinding 25 million for the lower bracket rewards. So that's not an irrational choice.
That's why I also don't find it surprising that the basic cutoff for 1-5% has risen from 7 million to 10 million. It is simple arbitrage. If 1-5% is costing 25 million points of effort in the Featured, it should cost about 12 million points of effort in the Basic, because that's roughly the same amount of actual effort. The fact that it was lower meant there were players who were stubbornly playing in the Featured arena and falling just short of 5%, when identical levels of effort would have gotten higher rewards in the Basic arena. People are figuring that out over time, and that is causing the effort expended in both arenas to roughly equalize, at least for comparable rewards.
I assume that the approximately 100 players competing for the top 100 spots are adults who know what they are doing. That level of grind is hurting, at most, about one hundred players who are voluntarily taking on that task. Everyone else is doing far less effort.
Top 100 is way too low. 140m cutoffs aren't healthy for the players. Should be 200 at minimum.
The 6* rewards in the Basic and Featured arena are competitions. It is up to the competitors to decide what is and is not reasonable effort.
Plus, 140 million today is on the order of 700 rounds. That's a lot, but people have been grinding on that level since forever. When Nightcrawler showed up in the 4* arenas five years ago there were maniacs putting up similar levels of effort to guarantee landing him. And right now it takes on the order of 25 million to get the 1-5% bracket for 1000 6* shards. That is equivalent to 10000 6* shards being worth about 250 million points of effort. Few people can do that, but those that can are getting better value for their time than I am grinding 25 million for the lower bracket rewards. So that's not an irrational choice.
That's why I also don't find it surprising that the basic cutoff for 1-5% has risen from 7 million to 10 million. It is simple arbitrage. If 1-5% is costing 25 million points of effort in the Featured, it should cost about 12 million points of effort in the Basic, because that's roughly the same amount of actual effort. The fact that it was lower meant there were players who were stubbornly playing in the Featured arena and falling just short of 5%, when identical levels of effort would have gotten higher rewards in the Basic arena. People are figuring that out over time, and that is causing the effort expended in both arenas to roughly equalize, at least for comparable rewards.
I assume that the approximately 100 players competing for the top 100 spots are adults who know what they are doing. That level of grind is hurting, at most, about one hundred players who are voluntarily taking on that task. Everyone else is doing far less effort.
Now if only we could reduce the the last milestone in the trials to it's OG form of 2.15, then everything would be the same.
The milestones in the Trials arena are designed to roughly replicate (using 4* champs) the effort it took to get the milestones in the three arenas it replaces: the OG 2* trials, 3* featured, and 4* basic.
At my grinding speed, the top milestone would have to be about 4.1 million, plus or minus, to replicate the same unit/round ratio (this factors in the 5 more units in the new Trials). 4.2 is pretty close.
The compromise is that the Trials arena is balanced around 4* scoring primarily, whereas the arenas it replaces were individually optimized around 4*, 3*, and 2* scoring (because of the individual rarity caps). There's no easy way to replicate the same roster scoring spread with one arena, without making it far too easy to zerg for someone with a reasonably large roster of 4* champs. Because 4* champs refresh in only two hours, it doesn't take a large number of ranked up 4* champs to be able to essentially use nothing but top-scoring champs to reach the maximum milestones).
If the top milestone was, say, 2.15 million a player could get all of the milestones with about 72 rounds of grinding over three days. That's about 24 rounds per day, which would be only 8 rounds three times a day or 6 rounds four times a day. Grinding four times a day seems like a lot, but not when it is only 6 rounds taking up less than fifteen minutes each time. You could do that in a fraction of a lunch break, and this would require only 18 ranked up 4* champs. Even someone who doesn't rank up 4* champs and doesn't want to rank up 4* champs would be hard pressed to be unable to rank up 18 4* champs for the enormous amount of units they'd be getting back in exchange.
I don’t quite understand people complaining needing more effort to get 1-5% in 6 star basic arena, the cutoff score is around 9M in 6 star basic, which means around 95 rounds if you use your r4 and r5 5 stars, in the previous system, the cutoff is around 24M, using 6 star, you may need 120 rounds or so, so the effort is less. Only loss is you get less units from milestones, but that is the unit distribution between the 3 arenas, which is a different point
I missed the top 5% even after hitting 9m+ in the basic.
And the effort isn't less since summoner trials used to take 60 rounds for 2.15m but now needs 120. I have a whale roster and doing more work for less rewards now. Very discouraging for players who grinded for years building their 6 star rosters.
On one hand I agreed with you that you can't hit top 5% with 9mm+ score in basic arena now, cause many players also think they can and thus many stop at around 10mm, turn out making a cutoff up-shift.
Whilst I disagree about the summoner trials. Under old 4* arena, I normally need to fight 120 rounds in order reach ~2.2mm score for a 4* champs. Now you can have 4mm point with similar rounds, their scoring system adjusted. (note: I didn't break any streak)
You must have used 4* boosts. I ran only r5 4* unboosted and it takes 120 rounds.
No. I used boosts and shorten the rounds to 80 only. If you divided 4.4mm by 96, you got 45k. It is the normal score with r5 4*. Just depends on how many you have. I almost collected the entire champ roaster in 4* btw.
How many points can you obtain in the first 12 rounds (cumulative)?
What are the points impact using suicides?
I don't use Suicides mastery and I don't how much more points per round. For the first 12 rounds, I can only get to ~330k, since it is Kang / Thanos from round 6 onwards using 4-Star max rank champs.
Suicides do make a slight impact. After 12 rounds I have around 350.000 - 360.000 points. So not a huge difference. About 20k for 10 rounds. but since you need to do atleast 100 to get all milestones, it is a difference of 200k, but the main point of suicide masteries is the speed at which you finish the fights. That difference is HUGE
I don’t quite understand people complaining needing more effort to get 1-5% in 6 star basic arena, the cutoff score is around 9M in 6 star basic, which means around 95 rounds if you use your r4 and r5 5 stars, in the previous system, the cutoff is around 24M, using 6 star, you may need 120 rounds or so, so the effort is less. Only loss is you get less units from milestones, but that is the unit distribution between the 3 arenas, which is a different point
I missed the top 5% even after hitting 9m+ in the basic.
And the effort isn't less since summoner trials used to take 60 rounds for 2.15m but now needs 120. I have a whale roster and doing more work for less rewards now. Very discouraging for players who grinded for years building their 6 star rosters.
On one hand I agreed with you that you can't hit top 5% with 9mm+ score in basic arena now, cause many players also think they can and thus many stop at around 10mm, turn out making a cutoff up-shift.
Whilst I disagree about the summoner trials. Under old 4* arena, I normally need to fight 120 rounds in order reach ~2.2mm score for a 4* champs. Now you can have 4mm point with similar rounds, their scoring system adjusted. (note: I didn't break any streak)
You must have used 4* boosts. I ran only r5 4* unboosted and it takes 120 rounds.
No. I used boosts and shorten the rounds to 80 only. If you divided 4.4mm by 96, you got 45k. It is the normal score with r5 4*. Just depends on how many you have. I almost collected the entire champ roaster in 4* btw.
How many points can you obtain in the first 12 rounds (cumulative)?
What are the points impact using suicides?
I don't use Suicides mastery and I don't how much more points per round. For the first 12 rounds, I can only get to ~330k, since it is Kang / Thanos from round 6 onwards using 4-Star max rank champs.
Suicides do make a slight impact. After 12 rounds I have around 350.000 - 360.000 points. So not a huge difference. About 20k for 10 rounds. but since you need to do atleast 100 to get all milestones, it is a difference of 200k, but the main point of suicide masteries is the speed at which you finish the fights. That difference is HUGE
I see. Thanks. So, I don't know how @Reference can achieved what was claimed without using boost all the way.
Top 100 is way too low. 140m cutoffs aren't healthy for the players. Should be 200 at minimum.
The 6* rewards in the Basic and Featured arena are competitions. It is up to the competitors to decide what is and is not reasonable effort.
Plus, 140 million today is on the order of 700 rounds. That's a lot, but people have been grinding on that level since forever. When Nightcrawler showed up in the 4* arenas five years ago there were maniacs putting up similar levels of effort to guarantee landing him. And right now it takes on the order of 25 million to get the 1-5% bracket for 1000 6* shards. That is equivalent to 10000 6* shards being worth about 250 million points of effort. Few people can do that, but those that can are getting better value for their time than I am grinding 25 million for the lower bracket rewards. So that's not an irrational choice.
That's why I also don't find it surprising that the basic cutoff for 1-5% has risen from 7 million to 10 million. It is simple arbitrage. If 1-5% is costing 25 million points of effort in the Featured, it should cost about 12 million points of effort in the Basic, because that's roughly the same amount of actual effort. The fact that it was lower meant there were players who were stubbornly playing in the Featured arena and falling just short of 5%, when identical levels of effort would have gotten higher rewards in the Basic arena. People are figuring that out over time, and that is causing the effort expended in both arenas to roughly equalize, at least for comparable rewards.
I assume that the approximately 100 players competing for the top 100 spots are adults who know what they are doing. That level of grind is hurting, at most, about one hundred players who are voluntarily taking on that task. Everyone else is doing far less effort.
140m isn't 700 rounds. I have a huge roster and am in top 50 for total base hero rating and 150m was over 950 rounds. The player base has increased. There is no chance for a free to play player to even compete. How many 6* arenas have you won?
I was winning the 5* arenas with half the output. If there goal is to just let the mercs grind for half the spots then its a poor business decision.
Top 100 is way too low. 140m cutoffs aren't healthy for the players. Should be 200 at minimum.
The 6* rewards in the Basic and Featured arena are competitions. It is up to the competitors to decide what is and is not reasonable effort.
Plus, 140 million today is on the order of 700 rounds. That's a lot, but people have been grinding on that level since forever. When Nightcrawler showed up in the 4* arenas five years ago there were maniacs putting up similar levels of effort to guarantee landing him. And right now it takes on the order of 25 million to get the 1-5% bracket for 1000 6* shards. That is equivalent to 10000 6* shards being worth about 250 million points of effort. Few people can do that, but those that can are getting better value for their time than I am grinding 25 million for the lower bracket rewards. So that's not an irrational choice.
That's why I also don't find it surprising that the basic cutoff for 1-5% has risen from 7 million to 10 million. It is simple arbitrage. If 1-5% is costing 25 million points of effort in the Featured, it should cost about 12 million points of effort in the Basic, because that's roughly the same amount of actual effort. The fact that it was lower meant there were players who were stubbornly playing in the Featured arena and falling just short of 5%, when identical levels of effort would have gotten higher rewards in the Basic arena. People are figuring that out over time, and that is causing the effort expended in both arenas to roughly equalize, at least for comparable rewards.
I assume that the approximately 100 players competing for the top 100 spots are adults who know what they are doing. That level of grind is hurting, at most, about one hundred players who are voluntarily taking on that task. Everyone else is doing far less effort.
140m isn't 700 rounds. I have a huge roster and am in top 50 for total base hero rating and 150m was over 950 rounds. The player base has increased. There is no chance for a free to play player to even compete. How many 6* arenas have you won?
I was winning the 5* arenas with half the output. If there goal is to just let the mercs grind for half the spots then its a poor business decision.
140m with only 6* R2/R3 averaging about 70k points per win, so 210k per round, is 666.666666 recurring rounds.
So 700 rounds doesn't seem unlikely but only if you're using 6* R2 and above.
Top 100 is way too low. 140m cutoffs aren't healthy for the players. Should be 200 at minimum.
The 6* rewards in the Basic and Featured arena are competitions. It is up to the competitors to decide what is and is not reasonable effort.
Plus, 140 million today is on the order of 700 rounds. That's a lot, but people have been grinding on that level since forever. When Nightcrawler showed up in the 4* arenas five years ago there were maniacs putting up similar levels of effort to guarantee landing him. And right now it takes on the order of 25 million to get the 1-5% bracket for 1000 6* shards. That is equivalent to 10000 6* shards being worth about 250 million points of effort. Few people can do that, but those that can are getting better value for their time than I am grinding 25 million for the lower bracket rewards. So that's not an irrational choice.
That's why I also don't find it surprising that the basic cutoff for 1-5% has risen from 7 million to 10 million. It is simple arbitrage. If 1-5% is costing 25 million points of effort in the Featured, it should cost about 12 million points of effort in the Basic, because that's roughly the same amount of actual effort. The fact that it was lower meant there were players who were stubbornly playing in the Featured arena and falling just short of 5%, when identical levels of effort would have gotten higher rewards in the Basic arena. People are figuring that out over time, and that is causing the effort expended in both arenas to roughly equalize, at least for comparable rewards.
I assume that the approximately 100 players competing for the top 100 spots are adults who know what they are doing. That level of grind is hurting, at most, about one hundred players who are voluntarily taking on that task. Everyone else is doing far less effort.
140m isn't 700 rounds. I have a huge roster and am in top 50 for total base hero rating and 150m was over 950 rounds. The player base has increased. There is no chance for a free to play player to even compete. How many 6* arenas have you won?
I was winning the 5* arenas with half the output. If there goal is to just let the mercs grind for half the spots then its a poor business decision.
140m with only 6* R2/R3 averaging about 70k points per win, so 210k per round, is 666.666666 recurring rounds.
So 700 rounds doesn't seem unlikely but only if you're using 6* R2 and above.
Yes that score is possible if you only run 6* r2 and up. So since there aren't enough 6*s and materials for it. It currently isn't possible to put up that score in 666 fights unless you are refreshing and spending money. The math is right but it's not possible.
666 matches is 2000 6* r2s. You can only get 6 rounds of 6*s done with refresh timers. That means you need 333 r2 six stars per round.
6 rounds of 6* r2s 140m 1 round = 23.33m points 23.33m points divided by 70,000 (points per r2 6*) Means you need 333.33 r2 6* champs.
There are 193 6*s available. Can you let me know where to find the 140.33 more 6*s and materials to r2 them?
Top 100 is way too low. 140m cutoffs aren't healthy for the players. Should be 200 at minimum.
The 6* rewards in the Basic and Featured arena are competitions. It is up to the competitors to decide what is and is not reasonable effort.
Plus, 140 million today is on the order of 700 rounds. That's a lot, but people have been grinding on that level since forever. When Nightcrawler showed up in the 4* arenas five years ago there were maniacs putting up similar levels of effort to guarantee landing him. And right now it takes on the order of 25 million to get the 1-5% bracket for 1000 6* shards. That is equivalent to 10000 6* shards being worth about 250 million points of effort. Few people can do that, but those that can are getting better value for their time than I am grinding 25 million for the lower bracket rewards. So that's not an irrational choice.
That's why I also don't find it surprising that the basic cutoff for 1-5% has risen from 7 million to 10 million. It is simple arbitrage. If 1-5% is costing 25 million points of effort in the Featured, it should cost about 12 million points of effort in the Basic, because that's roughly the same amount of actual effort. The fact that it was lower meant there were players who were stubbornly playing in the Featured arena and falling just short of 5%, when identical levels of effort would have gotten higher rewards in the Basic arena. People are figuring that out over time, and that is causing the effort expended in both arenas to roughly equalize, at least for comparable rewards.
I assume that the approximately 100 players competing for the top 100 spots are adults who know what they are doing. That level of grind is hurting, at most, about one hundred players who are voluntarily taking on that task. Everyone else is doing far less effort.
140m isn't 700 rounds. I have a huge roster and am in top 50 for total base hero rating and 150m was over 950 rounds. The player base has increased. There is no chance for a free to play player to even compete. How many 6* arenas have you won?
I was winning the 5* arenas with half the output. If there goal is to just let the mercs grind for half the spots then its a poor business decision.
140m with only 6* R2/R3 averaging about 70k points per win, so 210k per round, is 666.666666 recurring rounds.
So 700 rounds doesn't seem unlikely but only if you're using 6* R2 and above.
Yes that score is possible if you only run 6* r2 and up. So since there aren't enough 6*s and materials for it. It currently isn't possible to put up that score in 666 fights unless you are refreshing and spending money. The math is right but it's not possible.
666 matches is 2000 6* r2s. You can only get 6 rounds of 6*s done with refresh timers. That means you need 333 r2 six stars per round.
6 rounds of 6* r2s 140m 1 round = 23.33m points 23.33m points divided by 70,000 (points per r2 6*) Means you need 333.33 r2 6* champs.
There are 193 6*s available. Can you let me know where to find the 140.33 more 6*s and materials to r2 them?
That's exactly why people refresh them. Because it's cheaper to spend units on refreshing them than spending it on Festured Cav Crystals for example, and still ending up with nothing.
(I spent 9k units on Featured Cavs for Stryfe and didn't even get a 5*, I could have spent that on his Arena just refreshing 3 R2s and probably got him)
Top 100 is way too low. 140m cutoffs aren't healthy for the players. Should be 200 at minimum.
The 6* rewards in the Basic and Featured arena are competitions. It is up to the competitors to decide what is and is not reasonable effort.
Plus, 140 million today is on the order of 700 rounds. That's a lot, but people have been grinding on that level since forever. When Nightcrawler showed up in the 4* arenas five years ago there were maniacs putting up similar levels of effort to guarantee landing him. And right now it takes on the order of 25 million to get the 1-5% bracket for 1000 6* shards. That is equivalent to 10000 6* shards being worth about 250 million points of effort. Few people can do that, but those that can are getting better value for their time than I am grinding 25 million for the lower bracket rewards. So that's not an irrational choice.
That's why I also don't find it surprising that the basic cutoff for 1-5% has risen from 7 million to 10 million. It is simple arbitrage. If 1-5% is costing 25 million points of effort in the Featured, it should cost about 12 million points of effort in the Basic, because that's roughly the same amount of actual effort. The fact that it was lower meant there were players who were stubbornly playing in the Featured arena and falling just short of 5%, when identical levels of effort would have gotten higher rewards in the Basic arena. People are figuring that out over time, and that is causing the effort expended in both arenas to roughly equalize, at least for comparable rewards.
I assume that the approximately 100 players competing for the top 100 spots are adults who know what they are doing. That level of grind is hurting, at most, about one hundred players who are voluntarily taking on that task. Everyone else is doing far less effort.
140m isn't 700 rounds. I have a huge roster and am in top 50 for total base hero rating and 150m was over 950 rounds. The player base has increased. There is no chance for a free to play player to even compete. How many 6* arenas have you won?
I was winning the 5* arenas with half the output. If there goal is to just let the mercs grind for half the spots then its a poor business decision.
140m with only 6* R2/R3 averaging about 70k points per win, so 210k per round, is 666.666666 recurring rounds.
So 700 rounds doesn't seem unlikely but only if you're using 6* R2 and above.
Yes that score is possible if you only run 6* r2 and up. So since there aren't enough 6*s and materials for it. It currently isn't possible to put up that score in 666 fights unless you are refreshing and spending money. The math is right but it's not possible.
A free to play arena grinder has an additional option besides doing more rounds or spending cash. They could use the units they are generating from grinding arena to refresh champions in targeted arenas. This would also allow them to get more benefit from arena boosts, which ordinarily have a minimal impact on very long grinds unless you're refreshing the champs that have been boosted, which magnifies their benefit.
Top 100 is way too low. 140m cutoffs aren't healthy for the players. Should be 200 at minimum.
The 6* rewards in the Basic and Featured arena are competitions. It is up to the competitors to decide what is and is not reasonable effort.
Plus, 140 million today is on the order of 700 rounds. That's a lot, but people have been grinding on that level since forever. When Nightcrawler showed up in the 4* arenas five years ago there were maniacs putting up similar levels of effort to guarantee landing him. And right now it takes on the order of 25 million to get the 1-5% bracket for 1000 6* shards. That is equivalent to 10000 6* shards being worth about 250 million points of effort. Few people can do that, but those that can are getting better value for their time than I am grinding 25 million for the lower bracket rewards. So that's not an irrational choice.
That's why I also don't find it surprising that the basic cutoff for 1-5% has risen from 7 million to 10 million. It is simple arbitrage. If 1-5% is costing 25 million points of effort in the Featured, it should cost about 12 million points of effort in the Basic, because that's roughly the same amount of actual effort. The fact that it was lower meant there were players who were stubbornly playing in the Featured arena and falling just short of 5%, when identical levels of effort would have gotten higher rewards in the Basic arena. People are figuring that out over time, and that is causing the effort expended in both arenas to roughly equalize, at least for comparable rewards.
I assume that the approximately 100 players competing for the top 100 spots are adults who know what they are doing. That level of grind is hurting, at most, about one hundred players who are voluntarily taking on that task. Everyone else is doing far less effort.
140m isn't 700 rounds. I have a huge roster and am in top 50 for total base hero rating and 150m was over 950 rounds. The player base has increased. There is no chance for a free to play player to even compete. How many 6* arenas have you won?
I was winning the 5* arenas with half the output. If there goal is to just let the mercs grind for half the spots then its a poor business decision.
140m with only 6* R2/R3 averaging about 70k points per win, so 210k per round, is 666.666666 recurring rounds.
So 700 rounds doesn't seem unlikely but only if you're using 6* R2 and above.
Yes that score is possible if you only run 6* r2 and up. So since there aren't enough 6*s and materials for it. It currently isn't possible to put up that score in 666 fights unless you are refreshing and spending money. The math is right but it's not possible.
A free to play arena grinder has an additional option besides doing more rounds or spending cash. They could use the units they are generating from grinding arena to refresh champions in targeted arenas. This would also allow them to get more benefit from arena boosts, which ordinarily have a minimal impact on very long grinds unless you're refreshing the champs that have been boosted, which magnifies their benefit.
Stop it. The whales do the same thing and use more units. Free to play can't compete at all.
Top 100 is way too low. 140m cutoffs aren't healthy for the players. Should be 200 at minimum.
The 6* rewards in the Basic and Featured arena are competitions. It is up to the competitors to decide what is and is not reasonable effort.
Plus, 140 million today is on the order of 700 rounds. That's a lot, but people have been grinding on that level since forever. When Nightcrawler showed up in the 4* arenas five years ago there were maniacs putting up similar levels of effort to guarantee landing him. And right now it takes on the order of 25 million to get the 1-5% bracket for 1000 6* shards. That is equivalent to 10000 6* shards being worth about 250 million points of effort. Few people can do that, but those that can are getting better value for their time than I am grinding 25 million for the lower bracket rewards. So that's not an irrational choice.
That's why I also don't find it surprising that the basic cutoff for 1-5% has risen from 7 million to 10 million. It is simple arbitrage. If 1-5% is costing 25 million points of effort in the Featured, it should cost about 12 million points of effort in the Basic, because that's roughly the same amount of actual effort. The fact that it was lower meant there were players who were stubbornly playing in the Featured arena and falling just short of 5%, when identical levels of effort would have gotten higher rewards in the Basic arena. People are figuring that out over time, and that is causing the effort expended in both arenas to roughly equalize, at least for comparable rewards.
I assume that the approximately 100 players competing for the top 100 spots are adults who know what they are doing. That level of grind is hurting, at most, about one hundred players who are voluntarily taking on that task. Everyone else is doing far less effort.
140m isn't 700 rounds. I have a huge roster and am in top 50 for total base hero rating and 150m was over 950 rounds. The player base has increased. There is no chance for a free to play player to even compete. How many 6* arenas have you won?
I was winning the 5* arenas with half the output. If there goal is to just let the mercs grind for half the spots then its a poor business decision.
140m with only 6* R2/R3 averaging about 70k points per win, so 210k per round, is 666.666666 recurring rounds.
So 700 rounds doesn't seem unlikely but only if you're using 6* R2 and above.
Yes that score is possible if you only run 6* r2 and up. So since there aren't enough 6*s and materials for it. It currently isn't possible to put up that score in 666 fights unless you are refreshing and spending money. The math is right but it's not possible.
666 matches is 2000 6* r2s. You can only get 6 rounds of 6*s done with refresh timers. That means you need 333 r2 six stars per round.
6 rounds of 6* r2s 140m 1 round = 23.33m points 23.33m points divided by 70,000 (points per r2 6*) Means you need 333.33 r2 6* champs.
There are 193 6*s available. Can you let me know where to find the 140.33 more 6*s and materials to r2 them?
That's exactly why people refresh them. Because it's cheaper to spend units on refreshing them than spending it on Festured Cav Crystals for example, and still ending up with nothing.
(I spent 9k units on Featured Cavs for Stryfe and didn't even get a 5*, I could have spent that on his Arena just refreshing 3 R2s and probably got him)
I don't remember the Stryfe 6* arena but 9k units wasn't going to get you a 6*.
Top 100 is way too low. 140m cutoffs aren't healthy for the players. Should be 200 at minimum.
The 6* rewards in the Basic and Featured arena are competitions. It is up to the competitors to decide what is and is not reasonable effort.
Plus, 140 million today is on the order of 700 rounds. That's a lot, but people have been grinding on that level since forever. When Nightcrawler showed up in the 4* arenas five years ago there were maniacs putting up similar levels of effort to guarantee landing him. And right now it takes on the order of 25 million to get the 1-5% bracket for 1000 6* shards. That is equivalent to 10000 6* shards being worth about 250 million points of effort. Few people can do that, but those that can are getting better value for their time than I am grinding 25 million for the lower bracket rewards. So that's not an irrational choice.
That's why I also don't find it surprising that the basic cutoff for 1-5% has risen from 7 million to 10 million. It is simple arbitrage. If 1-5% is costing 25 million points of effort in the Featured, it should cost about 12 million points of effort in the Basic, because that's roughly the same amount of actual effort. The fact that it was lower meant there were players who were stubbornly playing in the Featured arena and falling just short of 5%, when identical levels of effort would have gotten higher rewards in the Basic arena. People are figuring that out over time, and that is causing the effort expended in both arenas to roughly equalize, at least for comparable rewards.
I assume that the approximately 100 players competing for the top 100 spots are adults who know what they are doing. That level of grind is hurting, at most, about one hundred players who are voluntarily taking on that task. Everyone else is doing far less effort.
140m isn't 700 rounds. I have a huge roster and am in top 50 for total base hero rating and 150m was over 950 rounds. The player base has increased. There is no chance for a free to play player to even compete. How many 6* arenas have you won?
I was winning the 5* arenas with half the output. If there goal is to just let the mercs grind for half the spots then its a poor business decision.
140m with only 6* R2/R3 averaging about 70k points per win, so 210k per round, is 666.666666 recurring rounds.
So 700 rounds doesn't seem unlikely but only if you're using 6* R2 and above.
Yes that score is possible if you only run 6* r2 and up. So since there aren't enough 6*s and materials for it. It currently isn't possible to put up that score in 666 fights unless you are refreshing and spending money. The math is right but it's not possible.
A free to play arena grinder has an additional option besides doing more rounds or spending cash. They could use the units they are generating from grinding arena to refresh champions in targeted arenas. This would also allow them to get more benefit from arena boosts, which ordinarily have a minimal impact on very long grinds unless you're refreshing the champs that have been boosted, which magnifies their benefit.
Stop it. The whales do the same thing and use more units. Free to play can't compete at all.
I'm sorry, but you seem to be having a conversation in your own head or with someone else. I can only respond to the part you end up typing. Is your thesis that 140 million is unhealthy, or is it that free to play players cannot compete in the Featured arena? I said you could do 140 million in 700 rounds of time, and you replied that no, because you do more rounds, which is a non-sequitor (as I made no claim about how many rounds you take, only how many it can take).
Then you said it was impossible for a free to play player to do that because refreshes cost money, to which I replied that actually, refreshes cost units, which is a currency hard core arena grinders, free to play or not, tend to have in large supply. Now you're saying whales can also refresh and they can use more units, which is true, but why is that relevant? Are you saying it is impossible for a free to play player to reach top 100 in the featured arena, or only that free to play players are at a disadvantage in the featured arena. Because if you're saying they are at a disadvantage, I agree, but people with disadvantages still win all the time. If you're saying it is impossible, I'm saying that's false.
I'm also saying none of this is relevant to the question of whether 140 million points is "unhealthy" or not. You said you did 150 million with 950 rounds. Was that "unhealthy?" If so, why did you do it?
Top 100 is way too low. 140m cutoffs aren't healthy for the players. Should be 200 at minimum.
The 6* rewards in the Basic and Featured arena are competitions. It is up to the competitors to decide what is and is not reasonable effort.
Plus, 140 million today is on the order of 700 rounds. That's a lot, but people have been grinding on that level since forever. When Nightcrawler showed up in the 4* arenas five years ago there were maniacs putting up similar levels of effort to guarantee landing him. And right now it takes on the order of 25 million to get the 1-5% bracket for 1000 6* shards. That is equivalent to 10000 6* shards being worth about 250 million points of effort. Few people can do that, but those that can are getting better value for their time than I am grinding 25 million for the lower bracket rewards. So that's not an irrational choice.
That's why I also don't find it surprising that the basic cutoff for 1-5% has risen from 7 million to 10 million. It is simple arbitrage. If 1-5% is costing 25 million points of effort in the Featured, it should cost about 12 million points of effort in the Basic, because that's roughly the same amount of actual effort. The fact that it was lower meant there were players who were stubbornly playing in the Featured arena and falling just short of 5%, when identical levels of effort would have gotten higher rewards in the Basic arena. People are figuring that out over time, and that is causing the effort expended in both arenas to roughly equalize, at least for comparable rewards.
I assume that the approximately 100 players competing for the top 100 spots are adults who know what they are doing. That level of grind is hurting, at most, about one hundred players who are voluntarily taking on that task. Everyone else is doing far less effort.
140m isn't 700 rounds. I have a huge roster and am in top 50 for total base hero rating and 150m was over 950 rounds. The player base has increased. There is no chance for a free to play player to even compete. How many 6* arenas have you won?
I was winning the 5* arenas with half the output. If there goal is to just let the mercs grind for half the spots then its a poor business decision.
140m with only 6* R2/R3 averaging about 70k points per win, so 210k per round, is 666.666666 recurring rounds.
So 700 rounds doesn't seem unlikely but only if you're using 6* R2 and above.
Yes that score is possible if you only run 6* r2 and up. So since there aren't enough 6*s and materials for it. It currently isn't possible to put up that score in 666 fights unless you are refreshing and spending money. The math is right but it's not possible.
A free to play arena grinder has an additional option besides doing more rounds or spending cash. They could use the units they are generating from grinding arena to refresh champions in targeted arenas. This would also allow them to get more benefit from arena boosts, which ordinarily have a minimal impact on very long grinds unless you're refreshing the champs that have been boosted, which magnifies their benefit.
Stop it. The whales do the same thing and use more units. Free to play can't compete at all.
I'm sorry, but you seem to be having a conversation in your own head or with someone else. I can only respond to the part you end up typing. Is your thesis that 140 million is unhealthy, or is it that free to play players cannot compete in the Featured arena? I said you could do 140 million in 700 rounds of time, and you replied that no, because you do more rounds, which is a non-sequitor (as I made no claim about how many rounds you take, only how many it can take).
Then you said it was impossible for a free to play player to do that because refreshes cost money, to which I replied that actually, refreshes cost units, which is a currency hard core arena grinders, free to play or not, tend to have in large supply. Now you're saying whales can also refresh and they can use more units, which is true, but why is that relevant? Are you saying it is impossible for a free to play player to reach top 100 in the featured arena, or only that free to play players are at a disadvantage in the featured arena. Because if you're saying they are at a disadvantage, I agree, but people with disadvantages still win all the time. If you're saying it is impossible, I'm saying that's false.
I'm also saying none of this is relevant to the question of whether 140 million points is "unhealthy" or not. You said you did 150 million with 950 rounds. Was that "unhealthy?" If so, why did you do it?
Personal attacks get you blocked and ignored. It's unhealthy for the game. It deters people from even trying and eventually they give up and lose interest. Look at the revenue numbers dropping since January. But you know it all even without doing it so I'll defer to your expertise on the subject as it is far superior.
I'd like the game to go on for as long as possible and these arena grinds are unhealthy for the longevity of the game.
Top 100 is way too low. 140m cutoffs aren't healthy for the players. Should be 200 at minimum.
The 6* rewards in the Basic and Featured arena are competitions. It is up to the competitors to decide what is and is not reasonable effort.
Plus, 140 million today is on the order of 700 rounds. That's a lot, but people have been grinding on that level since forever. When Nightcrawler showed up in the 4* arenas five years ago there were maniacs putting up similar levels of effort to guarantee landing him. And right now it takes on the order of 25 million to get the 1-5% bracket for 1000 6* shards. That is equivalent to 10000 6* shards being worth about 250 million points of effort. Few people can do that, but those that can are getting better value for their time than I am grinding 25 million for the lower bracket rewards. So that's not an irrational choice.
That's why I also don't find it surprising that the basic cutoff for 1-5% has risen from 7 million to 10 million. It is simple arbitrage. If 1-5% is costing 25 million points of effort in the Featured, it should cost about 12 million points of effort in the Basic, because that's roughly the same amount of actual effort. The fact that it was lower meant there were players who were stubbornly playing in the Featured arena and falling just short of 5%, when identical levels of effort would have gotten higher rewards in the Basic arena. People are figuring that out over time, and that is causing the effort expended in both arenas to roughly equalize, at least for comparable rewards.
I assume that the approximately 100 players competing for the top 100 spots are adults who know what they are doing. That level of grind is hurting, at most, about one hundred players who are voluntarily taking on that task. Everyone else is doing far less effort.
140m isn't 700 rounds. I have a huge roster and am in top 50 for total base hero rating and 150m was over 950 rounds. The player base has increased. There is no chance for a free to play player to even compete. How many 6* arenas have you won?
I was winning the 5* arenas with half the output. If there goal is to just let the mercs grind for half the spots then its a poor business decision.
140m with only 6* R2/R3 averaging about 70k points per win, so 210k per round, is 666.666666 recurring rounds.
So 700 rounds doesn't seem unlikely but only if you're using 6* R2 and above.
Yes that score is possible if you only run 6* r2 and up. So since there aren't enough 6*s and materials for it. It currently isn't possible to put up that score in 666 fights unless you are refreshing and spending money. The math is right but it's not possible.
A free to play arena grinder has an additional option besides doing more rounds or spending cash. They could use the units they are generating from grinding arena to refresh champions in targeted arenas. This would also allow them to get more benefit from arena boosts, which ordinarily have a minimal impact on very long grinds unless you're refreshing the champs that have been boosted, which magnifies their benefit.
Stop it. The whales do the same thing and use more units. Free to play can't compete at all.
I'm sorry, but you seem to be having a conversation in your own head or with someone else. I can only respond to the part you end up typing. Is your thesis that 140 million is unhealthy, or is it that free to play players cannot compete in the Featured arena? I said you could do 140 million in 700 rounds of time, and you replied that no, because you do more rounds, which is a non-sequitor (as I made no claim about how many rounds you take, only how many it can take).
Then you said it was impossible for a free to play player to do that because refreshes cost money, to which I replied that actually, refreshes cost units, which is a currency hard core arena grinders, free to play or not, tend to have in large supply. Now you're saying whales can also refresh and they can use more units, which is true, but why is that relevant? Are you saying it is impossible for a free to play player to reach top 100 in the featured arena, or only that free to play players are at a disadvantage in the featured arena. Because if you're saying they are at a disadvantage, I agree, but people with disadvantages still win all the time. If you're saying it is impossible, I'm saying that's false.
I'm also saying none of this is relevant to the question of whether 140 million points is "unhealthy" or not. You said you did 150 million with 950 rounds. Was that "unhealthy?" If so, why did you do it?
Personal attacks get you blocked and ignored. It's unhealthy for the game. It deters people from even trying and eventually they give up and lose interest. Look at the revenue numbers dropping since January. But you know it all even without doing it so I'll defer to your expertise on the subject as it is far superior.
I'd like the game to go on for as long as possible and these arena grinds are unhealthy for the longevity of the game.
Are they unhealthy for the game? If the cutoff is 140m that means there's a driving engagement that people want to go for. That doesn't show a decline in activity, that shows an increase.
It's fine, you can believe the game is dying or whatever you want, but that doesn't make it true in the slightest. Saying revenue is down is exactly like saying that Global Warming was down in the same period from 2020, there was a massive reason why both of these things happened.
Top 100 is way too low. 140m cutoffs aren't healthy for the players. Should be 200 at minimum.
The 6* rewards in the Basic and Featured arena are competitions. It is up to the competitors to decide what is and is not reasonable effort.
Plus, 140 million today is on the order of 700 rounds. That's a lot, but people have been grinding on that level since forever. When Nightcrawler showed up in the 4* arenas five years ago there were maniacs putting up similar levels of effort to guarantee landing him. And right now it takes on the order of 25 million to get the 1-5% bracket for 1000 6* shards. That is equivalent to 10000 6* shards being worth about 250 million points of effort. Few people can do that, but those that can are getting better value for their time than I am grinding 25 million for the lower bracket rewards. So that's not an irrational choice.
That's why I also don't find it surprising that the basic cutoff for 1-5% has risen from 7 million to 10 million. It is simple arbitrage. If 1-5% is costing 25 million points of effort in the Featured, it should cost about 12 million points of effort in the Basic, because that's roughly the same amount of actual effort. The fact that it was lower meant there were players who were stubbornly playing in the Featured arena and falling just short of 5%, when identical levels of effort would have gotten higher rewards in the Basic arena. People are figuring that out over time, and that is causing the effort expended in both arenas to roughly equalize, at least for comparable rewards.
I assume that the approximately 100 players competing for the top 100 spots are adults who know what they are doing. That level of grind is hurting, at most, about one hundred players who are voluntarily taking on that task. Everyone else is doing far less effort.
140m isn't 700 rounds. I have a huge roster and am in top 50 for total base hero rating and 150m was over 950 rounds. The player base has increased. There is no chance for a free to play player to even compete. How many 6* arenas have you won?
I was winning the 5* arenas with half the output. If there goal is to just let the mercs grind for half the spots then its a poor business decision.
140m with only 6* R2/R3 averaging about 70k points per win, so 210k per round, is 666.666666 recurring rounds.
So 700 rounds doesn't seem unlikely but only if you're using 6* R2 and above.
Yes that score is possible if you only run 6* r2 and up. So since there aren't enough 6*s and materials for it. It currently isn't possible to put up that score in 666 fights unless you are refreshing and spending money. The math is right but it's not possible.
A free to play arena grinder has an additional option besides doing more rounds or spending cash. They could use the units they are generating from grinding arena to refresh champions in targeted arenas. This would also allow them to get more benefit from arena boosts, which ordinarily have a minimal impact on very long grinds unless you're refreshing the champs that have been boosted, which magnifies their benefit.
Stop it. The whales do the same thing and use more units. Free to play can't compete at all.
I'm sorry, but you seem to be having a conversation in your own head or with someone else. I can only respond to the part you end up typing. Is your thesis that 140 million is unhealthy, or is it that free to play players cannot compete in the Featured arena? I said you could do 140 million in 700 rounds of time, and you replied that no, because you do more rounds, which is a non-sequitor (as I made no claim about how many rounds you take, only how many it can take).
Then you said it was impossible for a free to play player to do that because refreshes cost money, to which I replied that actually, refreshes cost units, which is a currency hard core arena grinders, free to play or not, tend to have in large supply. Now you're saying whales can also refresh and they can use more units, which is true, but why is that relevant? Are you saying it is impossible for a free to play player to reach top 100 in the featured arena, or only that free to play players are at a disadvantage in the featured arena. Because if you're saying they are at a disadvantage, I agree, but people with disadvantages still win all the time. If you're saying it is impossible, I'm saying that's false.
I'm also saying none of this is relevant to the question of whether 140 million points is "unhealthy" or not. You said you did 150 million with 950 rounds. Was that "unhealthy?" If so, why did you do it?
Personal attacks get you blocked and ignored. It's unhealthy for the game. It deters people from even trying and eventually they give up and lose interest. Look at the revenue numbers dropping since January. But you know it all even without doing it so I'll defer to your expertise on the subject as it is far superior.
I'd like the game to go on for as long as possible and these arena grinds are unhealthy for the longevity of the game.
Are they unhealthy for the game? If the cutoff is 140m that means there's a driving engagement that people want to go for. That doesn't show a decline in activity, that shows an increase.
It's fine, you can believe the game is dying or whatever you want, but that doesn't make it true in the slightest. Saying revenue is down is exactly like saying that Global Warming was down in the same period from 2020, there was a massive reason why both of these things happened.
How many 6* arenas have you gone for the champ? And what was your highest score?
Top 100 is way too low. 140m cutoffs aren't healthy for the players. Should be 200 at minimum.
The 6* rewards in the Basic and Featured arena are competitions. It is up to the competitors to decide what is and is not reasonable effort.
Plus, 140 million today is on the order of 700 rounds. That's a lot, but people have been grinding on that level since forever. When Nightcrawler showed up in the 4* arenas five years ago there were maniacs putting up similar levels of effort to guarantee landing him. And right now it takes on the order of 25 million to get the 1-5% bracket for 1000 6* shards. That is equivalent to 10000 6* shards being worth about 250 million points of effort. Few people can do that, but those that can are getting better value for their time than I am grinding 25 million for the lower bracket rewards. So that's not an irrational choice.
That's why I also don't find it surprising that the basic cutoff for 1-5% has risen from 7 million to 10 million. It is simple arbitrage. If 1-5% is costing 25 million points of effort in the Featured, it should cost about 12 million points of effort in the Basic, because that's roughly the same amount of actual effort. The fact that it was lower meant there were players who were stubbornly playing in the Featured arena and falling just short of 5%, when identical levels of effort would have gotten higher rewards in the Basic arena. People are figuring that out over time, and that is causing the effort expended in both arenas to roughly equalize, at least for comparable rewards.
I assume that the approximately 100 players competing for the top 100 spots are adults who know what they are doing. That level of grind is hurting, at most, about one hundred players who are voluntarily taking on that task. Everyone else is doing far less effort.
140m isn't 700 rounds. I have a huge roster and am in top 50 for total base hero rating and 150m was over 950 rounds. The player base has increased. There is no chance for a free to play player to even compete. How many 6* arenas have you won?
I was winning the 5* arenas with half the output. If there goal is to just let the mercs grind for half the spots then its a poor business decision.
140m with only 6* R2/R3 averaging about 70k points per win, so 210k per round, is 666.666666 recurring rounds.
So 700 rounds doesn't seem unlikely but only if you're using 6* R2 and above.
Yes that score is possible if you only run 6* r2 and up. So since there aren't enough 6*s and materials for it. It currently isn't possible to put up that score in 666 fights unless you are refreshing and spending money. The math is right but it's not possible.
A free to play arena grinder has an additional option besides doing more rounds or spending cash. They could use the units they are generating from grinding arena to refresh champions in targeted arenas. This would also allow them to get more benefit from arena boosts, which ordinarily have a minimal impact on very long grinds unless you're refreshing the champs that have been boosted, which magnifies their benefit.
Stop it. The whales do the same thing and use more units. Free to play can't compete at all.
I'm sorry, but you seem to be having a conversation in your own head or with someone else. I can only respond to the part you end up typing. Is your thesis that 140 million is unhealthy, or is it that free to play players cannot compete in the Featured arena? I said you could do 140 million in 700 rounds of time, and you replied that no, because you do more rounds, which is a non-sequitor (as I made no claim about how many rounds you take, only how many it can take).
Then you said it was impossible for a free to play player to do that because refreshes cost money, to which I replied that actually, refreshes cost units, which is a currency hard core arena grinders, free to play or not, tend to have in large supply. Now you're saying whales can also refresh and they can use more units, which is true, but why is that relevant? Are you saying it is impossible for a free to play player to reach top 100 in the featured arena, or only that free to play players are at a disadvantage in the featured arena. Because if you're saying they are at a disadvantage, I agree, but people with disadvantages still win all the time. If you're saying it is impossible, I'm saying that's false.
I'm also saying none of this is relevant to the question of whether 140 million points is "unhealthy" or not. You said you did 150 million with 950 rounds. Was that "unhealthy?" If so, why did you do it?
Personal attacks get you blocked and ignored. It's unhealthy for the game. It deters people from even trying and eventually they give up and lose interest. Look at the revenue numbers dropping since January. But you know it all even without doing it so I'll defer to your expertise on the subject as it is far superior.
I'd like the game to go on for as long as possible and these arena grinds are unhealthy for the longevity of the game.
Are they unhealthy for the game? If the cutoff is 140m that means there's a driving engagement that people want to go for. That doesn't show a decline in activity, that shows an increase.
It's fine, you can believe the game is dying or whatever you want, but that doesn't make it true in the slightest. Saying revenue is down is exactly like saying that Global Warming was down in the same period from 2020, there was a massive reason why both of these things happened.
How many 6* arenas have you gone for the champ? And what was your highest score?
0 because I have no interest in doing so. I do however put up 30 mil in the featured so I can get 1k 6* shards every time and it doesn't require me to do any more than logging in when my champs refresh. Whatever your supposed argument is meant to be here is weak.
If you don't want to grind to get a 6* then don't do it. If you want a particular champ, then put in the time and units to get that champ. This is a you problem and your mentality on the effort you want to put in.
Where is this all going to? This thread can be closed as there is no “open” topic. Or is there still a collection of feedbacks going on? I did not read a response for a long time.
Top 100 is way too low. 140m cutoffs aren't healthy for the players. Should be 200 at minimum.
The 6* rewards in the Basic and Featured arena are competitions. It is up to the competitors to decide what is and is not reasonable effort.
Plus, 140 million today is on the order of 700 rounds. That's a lot, but people have been grinding on that level since forever. When Nightcrawler showed up in the 4* arenas five years ago there were maniacs putting up similar levels of effort to guarantee landing him. And right now it takes on the order of 25 million to get the 1-5% bracket for 1000 6* shards. That is equivalent to 10000 6* shards being worth about 250 million points of effort. Few people can do that, but those that can are getting better value for their time than I am grinding 25 million for the lower bracket rewards. So that's not an irrational choice.
That's why I also don't find it surprising that the basic cutoff for 1-5% has risen from 7 million to 10 million. It is simple arbitrage. If 1-5% is costing 25 million points of effort in the Featured, it should cost about 12 million points of effort in the Basic, because that's roughly the same amount of actual effort. The fact that it was lower meant there were players who were stubbornly playing in the Featured arena and falling just short of 5%, when identical levels of effort would have gotten higher rewards in the Basic arena. People are figuring that out over time, and that is causing the effort expended in both arenas to roughly equalize, at least for comparable rewards.
I assume that the approximately 100 players competing for the top 100 spots are adults who know what they are doing. That level of grind is hurting, at most, about one hundred players who are voluntarily taking on that task. Everyone else is doing far less effort.
140m isn't 700 rounds. I have a huge roster and am in top 50 for total base hero rating and 150m was over 950 rounds. The player base has increased. There is no chance for a free to play player to even compete. How many 6* arenas have you won?
I was winning the 5* arenas with half the output. If there goal is to just let the mercs grind for half the spots then its a poor business decision.
140m with only 6* R2/R3 averaging about 70k points per win, so 210k per round, is 666.666666 recurring rounds.
So 700 rounds doesn't seem unlikely but only if you're using 6* R2 and above.
Yes that score is possible if you only run 6* r2 and up. So since there aren't enough 6*s and materials for it. It currently isn't possible to put up that score in 666 fights unless you are refreshing and spending money. The math is right but it's not possible.
A free to play arena grinder has an additional option besides doing more rounds or spending cash. They could use the units they are generating from grinding arena to refresh champions in targeted arenas. This would also allow them to get more benefit from arena boosts, which ordinarily have a minimal impact on very long grinds unless you're refreshing the champs that have been boosted, which magnifies their benefit.
Stop it. The whales do the same thing and use more units. Free to play can't compete at all.
I'm sorry, but you seem to be having a conversation in your own head or with someone else. I can only respond to the part you end up typing. Is your thesis that 140 million is unhealthy, or is it that free to play players cannot compete in the Featured arena? I said you could do 140 million in 700 rounds of time, and you replied that no, because you do more rounds, which is a non-sequitor (as I made no claim about how many rounds you take, only how many it can take).
Then you said it was impossible for a free to play player to do that because refreshes cost money, to which I replied that actually, refreshes cost units, which is a currency hard core arena grinders, free to play or not, tend to have in large supply. Now you're saying whales can also refresh and they can use more units, which is true, but why is that relevant? Are you saying it is impossible for a free to play player to reach top 100 in the featured arena, or only that free to play players are at a disadvantage in the featured arena. Because if you're saying they are at a disadvantage, I agree, but people with disadvantages still win all the time. If you're saying it is impossible, I'm saying that's false.
I'm also saying none of this is relevant to the question of whether 140 million points is "unhealthy" or not. You said you did 150 million with 950 rounds. Was that "unhealthy?" If so, why did you do it?
Personal attacks get you blocked and ignored. It's unhealthy for the game. It deters people from even trying and eventually they give up and lose interest. Look at the revenue numbers dropping since January. But you know it all even without doing it so I'll defer to your expertise on the subject as it is far superior.
I'd like the game to go on for as long as possible and these arena grinds are unhealthy for the longevity of the game.
Are they unhealthy for the game? If the cutoff is 140m that means there's a driving engagement that people want to go for. That doesn't show a decline in activity, that shows an increase.
It's fine, you can believe the game is dying or whatever you want, but that doesn't make it true in the slightest. Saying revenue is down is exactly like saying that Global Warming was down in the same period from 2020, there was a massive reason why both of these things happened.
How many 6* arenas have you gone for the champ? And what was your highest score?
0 because I have no interest in doing so. I do however put up 30 mil in the featured so I can get 1k 6* shards every time and it doesn't require me to do any more than logging in when my champs refresh. Whatever your supposed argument is meant to be here is weak.
If you don't want to grind to get a 6* then don't do it. If you want a particular champ, then put in the time and units to get that champ. This is a you problem and your mentality on the effort you want to put in.
Thank you for proving my point. You have no desire to even play arenas to win champions. You don't even grind for 5*s.
I've always been amazed by people with opinions on topics when they've never done it. Zero experience always wins the discussion.
And this is a Kabam issue. As a whale in this game it's in their best interest to listen to top competitive players who spend a lot of time and money. They asked for feedback. I'm providing my. The way they move forward will impact my spending decisions.
You are arguing with my experience and feedback while having none to compare with. Win a 6* champ in the arena and then give me your feedback.
Comments
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/267926/comparing-updated-arenas-to-og-arenas-unit-milestones
If the top milestone was 3 million instead, the unit earning rate of the new Trials would be dramatically better than it was before.
2. Apparently, *you* stopped ranking 5s, but a few thousand others didn't.
3. The "rarest in-game prizes" are not going to the loudest and relatively unambitious players. For the most part they are going to players who don't debate the arenas, they play them, and push very hard to win them. And if I was shooting for the Basic 6, I wouldn't be here discussing the merits of the arena structure either.
I use my r5's in all content and now my commitment to 5* is even more beneficial. Heck in the feature arena I can get the 5* champ for 1 or 2 days grind vs the previous 3 day commitment.
Also I think Brian Grant released a video within the last couple of months exposing a possible fallacy of 5* not being useful .
Good luck with your arena grind.
I will get back to full grind after july 4 and then I will know my limits.
That’s said 9-10m is not a hard target to hit for a decent reward - 1k 6* shards
Personally though, I’m just happy that I’m putting in the same effort as before, and getting slightly more units + slightly more 6* shards. No stress in doing everything.
Units are there in arena ALL the time (with the exception of the 7th day) 😂
For the first 12 rounds, I can only get to ~330k, since it is Kang / Thanos from round 6 onwards using 4-Star max rank champs.
Plus, 140 million today is on the order of 700 rounds. That's a lot, but people have been grinding on that level since forever. When Nightcrawler showed up in the 4* arenas five years ago there were maniacs putting up similar levels of effort to guarantee landing him. And right now it takes on the order of 25 million to get the 1-5% bracket for 1000 6* shards. That is equivalent to 10000 6* shards being worth about 250 million points of effort. Few people can do that, but those that can are getting better value for their time than I am grinding 25 million for the lower bracket rewards. So that's not an irrational choice.
That's why I also don't find it surprising that the basic cutoff for 1-5% has risen from 7 million to 10 million. It is simple arbitrage. If 1-5% is costing 25 million points of effort in the Featured, it should cost about 12 million points of effort in the Basic, because that's roughly the same amount of actual effort. The fact that it was lower meant there were players who were stubbornly playing in the Featured arena and falling just short of 5%, when identical levels of effort would have gotten higher rewards in the Basic arena. People are figuring that out over time, and that is causing the effort expended in both arenas to roughly equalize, at least for comparable rewards.
I assume that the approximately 100 players competing for the top 100 spots are adults who know what they are doing. That level of grind is hurting, at most, about one hundred players who are voluntarily taking on that task. Everyone else is doing far less effort.
At my grinding speed, the top milestone would have to be about 4.1 million, plus or minus, to replicate the same unit/round ratio (this factors in the 5 more units in the new Trials). 4.2 is pretty close.
The compromise is that the Trials arena is balanced around 4* scoring primarily, whereas the arenas it replaces were individually optimized around 4*, 3*, and 2* scoring (because of the individual rarity caps). There's no easy way to replicate the same roster scoring spread with one arena, without making it far too easy to zerg for someone with a reasonably large roster of 4* champs. Because 4* champs refresh in only two hours, it doesn't take a large number of ranked up 4* champs to be able to essentially use nothing but top-scoring champs to reach the maximum milestones).
If the top milestone was, say, 2.15 million a player could get all of the milestones with about 72 rounds of grinding over three days. That's about 24 rounds per day, which would be only 8 rounds three times a day or 6 rounds four times a day. Grinding four times a day seems like a lot, but not when it is only 6 rounds taking up less than fifteen minutes each time. You could do that in a fraction of a lunch break, and this would require only 18 ranked up 4* champs. Even someone who doesn't rank up 4* champs and doesn't want to rank up 4* champs would be hard pressed to be unable to rank up 18 4* champs for the enormous amount of units they'd be getting back in exchange.
So not a huge difference. About 20k for 10 rounds. but since you need to do atleast 100 to get all milestones, it is a difference of 200k, but the main point of suicide masteries is the speed at which you finish the fights. That difference is HUGE
So, I don't know how @Reference can achieved what was claimed without using boost all the way.
I was winning the 5* arenas with half the output. If there goal is to just let the mercs grind for half the spots then its a poor business decision.
So 700 rounds doesn't seem unlikely but only if you're using 6* R2 and above.
666 matches is 2000 6* r2s. You can only get 6 rounds of 6*s done with refresh timers. That means you need 333 r2 six stars per round.
6 rounds of 6* r2s 140m
1 round = 23.33m points
23.33m points divided by 70,000 (points per r2 6*)
Means you need 333.33 r2 6* champs.
There are 193 6*s available. Can you let me know where to find the 140.33 more 6*s and materials to r2 them?
(I spent 9k units on Featured Cavs for Stryfe and didn't even get a 5*, I could have spent that on his Arena just refreshing 3 R2s and probably got him)
Then you said it was impossible for a free to play player to do that because refreshes cost money, to which I replied that actually, refreshes cost units, which is a currency hard core arena grinders, free to play or not, tend to have in large supply. Now you're saying whales can also refresh and they can use more units, which is true, but why is that relevant? Are you saying it is impossible for a free to play player to reach top 100 in the featured arena, or only that free to play players are at a disadvantage in the featured arena. Because if you're saying they are at a disadvantage, I agree, but people with disadvantages still win all the time. If you're saying it is impossible, I'm saying that's false.
I'm also saying none of this is relevant to the question of whether 140 million points is "unhealthy" or not. You said you did 150 million with 950 rounds. Was that "unhealthy?" If so, why did you do it?
I'd like the game to go on for as long as possible and these arena grinds are unhealthy for the longevity of the game.
It's fine, you can believe the game is dying or whatever you want, but that doesn't make it true in the slightest. Saying revenue is down is exactly like saying that Global Warming was down in the same period from 2020, there was a massive reason why both of these things happened.
If you don't want to grind to get a 6* then don't do it. If you want a particular champ, then put in the time and units to get that champ. This is a you problem and your mentality on the effort you want to put in.
I've always been amazed by people with opinions on topics when they've never done it. Zero experience always wins the discussion.
And this is a Kabam issue. As a whale in this game it's in their best interest to listen to top competitive players who spend a lot of time and money. They asked for feedback. I'm providing my. The way they move forward will impact my spending decisions.
You are arguing with my experience and feedback while having none to compare with. Win a 6* champ in the arena and then give me your feedback.