**KNOWN AW ISSUE**
Please be aware, there is a known issue with Saga badging when observing the AW map.
The team have found the source of the issue and will be updating with our next build.
We apologize for the inconvenience.
**KNOWN BG ISSUE**
We are aware of an issue with the seeding for the beginning of the BG season.
We are adding rewards to higher progression brackets to offset the additional grind.
More information here.
**Arcade is being extra tricky with his Murder Box...**
It appears Arcade has been non-cooperative in his approach to this month's side quest and presented his clues in a nonsensical order. Lucky you, Summoners, we have our best and brightest on the case and those clues should now be a lot more straightforward. While messing around in Arcade's files we came across a phrase, highlighted and bolded, with sparkles and pointy arrows: "the abode for the dead" ... Maybe that will help you along the way!
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New Arena Structure Feedback v2.0

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Comments

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    IvarTheBonelessIvarTheBoneless Posts: 1,270 ★★★★
    Has anyone done the calculation on unit gains? I can't seem to grasp if this is better or worse than the previous arena system and the old arena system
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    hermherm Posts: 415 ★★
    herm said:

    I will definitely hop back in the arenas now, but only for the basic. And for those who have been grinding both arenas, they've essentially been shafted. What I mean by that is I don't think they're gonna have to grind more, but their grind is only potentially better by a small margin. For reference, I'll just paste what I've been saying.

    "The thing is, with the 6* point nerf, there's basically no change if you grind both milestones. According to my rough calculations, 6*s atm are currently worth around double the number of points compared to 5*s (6*r1 ~ 20k, 5*r4 ~ 10k). So essentially, if we disregard the changes to the milestones, if you had the roster to use only 6*s in both arenas previously, you would have to do double the work. When we plug this in with the milestone changes, we get something like this:

    Featured arena (changed from 16 to 12 mil): 2 times the work * 12/16 amount of milestone grind = 24/16 = 1.5 times the work

    Basic arena (changed from 16 to 4 mil): 2 times the work * 4/16 amount of milestone grind = 8/16 = 0.5 times the work

    When we average the two values to determine the total grind, we get this: (0.5 times the work + 1.5 times the work)/(2 arena grinds) = 2/2 = 1 times the amount of work

    Obviously, this math is far from perfect. But even so, it's worth considering. Not to mention, this seems exactly like something kabam would do.

    Additional notes: if you didn't have the 6* roster to do both arenas, this will undoubtedly be better than it was before. However, this is still way more work than what anyone had to do prior to the introduction of the 6* arenas; I do not run suicides so the point examples I gave will probably be different compared to someone who does; if you just run the basic arena (which I highly recommend) these changes are absolutely amazing; these changes will even out the playing field if you do intend on grinding for the actual champs."

    It has come to my attention that I probably misread the thing as kabam miike has clearly expressed that 6*s will still earn the same amount they do right now in the featured arena. So, with that in mind the grind has been decreased by about 37.5% ((12/16 + 8/16)/2 = 10/16 = 5/8 = 0.625 = 62.5%). Still, I don't think these changes are that great but they are better. It remains to be seen exactly how this will affect arena grinding though
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    -sixate--sixate- Posts: 1,532 ★★★★★

    Lvernon15 said:

    Lvernon15 said:

    At a minimum if the 6* champs are getting the same points as a 5*, reduce their cooldown to be the same

    This is only in the Basic Arena, which is an Arena they previously could not be used in.
    They could be used there though...

    I'm referring to the Arenas before we introduced the 5 and 6 Star Basic.
    But since a 6* champ is a top reward in the basic arena 6* champs should be used and not devalued to be worse than 5* in the basic arena. Because with a longer cooldown they are worse than a 5* champ. This literally makes zero sense.
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    Strikerrx8Strikerrx8 Posts: 1,090 ★★★
    U guys did amazing now i want to rank up some 4 star heroes so many units to get now
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    GiuliameijGiuliameij Posts: 1,849 ★★★★

    Has anyone done the calculation on unit gains? I can't seem to grasp if this is better or worse than the previous arena system and the old arena system

    It is 540 still. 135 in the basic and featured, 270 in the trials. Which is a switch around.
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    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,974 Guardian

    You could at least reduce the refresh time for 6-Star champs since they almost give the same points as 5-Stars.

    I don't believe that is possible because recharge is shared between arenas. If they reduce the recharge of 6* champs to make them more available in the basic arena, they'll be reduced in both the basic and the featured arena.
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    Sarvanga1_Sarvanga1_ Posts: 4,139 ★★★★★

    Has anyone done the calculation on unit gains? I can't seem to grasp if this is better or worse than the previous arena system and the old arena system

    It is 540 still. 135 in the basic and featured, 270 in the trials. Which is a switch around.
    Yes. The units are the same.
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    Charlie21540Charlie21540 Posts: 930 ★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    You could at least reduce the refresh time for 6-Star champs since they almost give the same points as 5-Stars.

    I don't believe that is possible because recharge is shared between arenas. If they reduce the recharge of 6* champs to make them more available in the basic arena, they'll be reduced in both the basic and the featured arena.
    Which I personally think is something they should have done in the first place
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    KerneasKerneas Posts: 3,765 ★★★★★
    The trials arena unit amounts are what I am after and I am very liking this change. Great job Kabam!
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    IdyslimIdyslim Posts: 32
    Why Devalue 6* champ in basic arena ? If that's the case shall 4* provide the same points as 5* ? Come on now, this is a terrible change. People didn't invest in 6* champions for this nonsense.
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    MaybeRedMaybeRed Posts: 38
    Is it for uncollected player or for all players
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    Bdot13Bdot13 Posts: 77
    Thanks for the fairly quick change up Kabam. I honestly wasnt expecting youll to turn up with a solution soon. Kudos.
    I think the changes are well thought of. Looking forward to grinding again. Cheers.
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    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,974 Guardian
    FabiusBR said:

    Kabam - “ After a lot of thought, exploration of multiple options, and discussions with some heavy arena grinders, we’ve come up with the following plan”

    No way any “heavy arena grinders” signed off on this disaster. I didn’t complain about the arena changes before, but this is just ridiculous.

    Basic arena - they removed the advantage of six stars (higher points) but retained the disadvantage (harder matches). So, six stars are now less valuable than five stars. Total slap to any player with a decent six star roster. Why not just remove six stars from the arena?

    Featured arena - this arena will get flooded with players leaving the basic arena in order to get value when they run their six stars. That will affect cutoffs, probably negatively for everyone.

    Milestone reward changes - the milestone rewards remain completely inadequate for the effort involved. The changes are insignificant.

    Before this, I could just do a run when my six stars recharged every 11 hours and get enough points for 1-5% in the basic arena. So, two runs a day in the arena. Nice for QOL. But now that I am losing the six star points advantage, I will need to run my five stars as soon as they recharge in order to keep up. I will have to make three runs a day of five stars and two runs a day of six stars to keep up. Way too much time to invest for pitiful rewards.

    Bottom line. I see no significant advantage for any player in these changes but see a serious disincentive to building a six star roster since they have completely destroyed the usefulness of six stars in the basic arena.

    1. You're very, very, very wrong about any "heavy arena grinders" signing off on these changes.

    2. 6* champs are not less valuable than 5* champs explicitly. 6* champs have the same base value. Arena points are based on the champ's base value and the champs PI. So since 6* champs generally have higher PI (they start at PI similar to rank 4 5* champs and can be ranked to R3) there is still an advantage to using 6* champs in the basic arena. The advantage is just lower now.

    3. I don't think we can say how this will affect the Featured arena. But I think all it ill do is shuffle effort between the Basic and the Featured, which means the total effort to reach, say, the 1-5% bracket in both will remain about the same. It could lower the effort in the Basic and raise it in the Featured, but that would be better for players that were only shooting for one of them, because that would likely be the Basic arena, and wouldn't penalize players who were going for ranked rewards in both by much if anything.

    4. The milestone reward changes now give approximately the same units per round of effort as the original comparable arenas did (the original 2* trials, the 3* featured, and the 4* basic). Although every player is different and every player's roster is different, the new trials contains basically the same amount of units as those three arenas did, and it takes roughly the same amount of effort to get them as it did to get the units from all three of those arenas. In fact, for casual players there are situation where it is slightly easier now due to frontloading.

    5. If you think this disincentivizes building a 6* roster, speaking as one of those "heavy arena grinders" you mentioned before, I'm fine if you decide to stop building up your 6* roster. That will just make it a tiny bit easier for the rest of the grinders to achieve rank rewards.
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    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,974 Guardian

    What a surprise. A giant middle finger to top end players to cater to a bunch of loud low to mid level players. At least they're being consistent with it these days

    People will have more of a chance to access 6*s when they have more need. That's not a bad thing. Unless you think the Featured AND the Basic should only go to people will 80-100+ 6*s.
    Well that's just nonsense. If I wanted a basic champ I still have my 150+ 6*s I can use. It just makes zero sense to ever use them outside of going for a champ. All it does it makes it far more annoying to do so as I'll have to do twice as many rounds as before. This doesn't even the playing field it just annoys anyone that used 6*s to go for a basic champ.
    Why wouldn't you want to use them? They still score more points per round on average, which means they score more points per hour of your time.
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    What a surprise. A giant middle finger to top end players to cater to a bunch of loud low to mid level players. At least they're being consistent with it these days

    how are they catering to mid level players? I dont see anything bad in these arenas.

    Easier to reach milestones while the top is still out of reach, isnt that standard anyways?
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    Monk1Monk1 Posts: 748 ★★★★

    What a surprise. A giant middle finger to top end players to cater to a bunch of loud low to mid level players. At least they're being consistent with it these days

    Could not agree more.. what a disgrace... why are my 6* and 5* now useless in arena.

    And it I read right the top arena have had units removed... just cause I have a massive account does not mean I pay to play and want to waste time grinding 4* champs
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    Monk1 said:

    What a surprise. A giant middle finger to top end players to cater to a bunch of loud low to mid level players. At least they're being consistent with it these days

    Could not agree more.. what a disgrace... why are my 6* and 5* now useless in arena.

    And it I read right the top arena have had units removed... just cause I have a massive account does not mean I pay to play and want to waste time grinding 4* champs
    you probably didnt read it right.
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    Sarvanga1_Sarvanga1_ Posts: 4,139 ★★★★★
    Monk1 said:

    What a surprise. A giant middle finger to top end players to cater to a bunch of loud low to mid level players. At least they're being consistent with it these days

    Could not agree more.. what a disgrace... why are my 6* and 5* now useless in arena.

    And it I read right the top arena have had units removed... just cause I have a massive account does not mean I pay to play and want to waste time grinding 4* champs
    Units are right there in the lower arena. So if you want them do it. It's not out of your reach you just don't want to do it.
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    Monk1Monk1 Posts: 748 ★★★★

    What a surprise. A giant middle finger to top end players to cater to a bunch of loud low to mid level players. At least they're being consistent with it these days

    People will have more of a chance to access 6*s when they have more need. That's not a bad thing. Unless you think the Featured AND the Basic should only go to people will 80-100+ 6*s.
    Well that's just nonsense. If I wanted a basic champ I still have my 150+ 6*s I can use. It just makes zero sense to ever use them outside of going for a champ. All it does it makes it far more annoying to do so as I'll have to do twice as many rounds as before. This doesn't even the playing field it just annoys anyone that used 6*s to go for a basic champ.
    How is it twice as many rounds? EVEYRONE has their numbers lowered. Getting 16,5m points with 6 stars takes more rounds than 4m points with 5* champs. So the effort has decreased for the top 2 arena's. And therefor the units have been lowered.
    Your leveled up 6* champs will still score more points than your 5 stars since their PI is higher. You will still have more champs available than lower players because your 6* champs will never pull a deathsquad. The cutoff will no longer be 80m but will be lowered to 50. since EVERYONE now gets less points per round of 6* champs. You just still have way more champs to use for grinding than for example me. So you are still save.
    The point is most top end players grind for shards and champs not just units.. so getting 16.5m was never an issue

    Now we go back to getting less units for grinding single arena.
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    GamerGamer Posts: 10,371 ★★★★★
    I’m more concerned of the rank rewards I’m can’t make 25m In bouth arena now
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,360 ★★★★★
    Monk1 said:

    What a surprise. A giant middle finger to top end players to cater to a bunch of loud low to mid level players. At least they're being consistent with it these days

    People will have more of a chance to access 6*s when they have more need. That's not a bad thing. Unless you think the Featured AND the Basic should only go to people will 80-100+ 6*s.
    Well that's just nonsense. If I wanted a basic champ I still have my 150+ 6*s I can use. It just makes zero sense to ever use them outside of going for a champ. All it does it makes it far more annoying to do so as I'll have to do twice as many rounds as before. This doesn't even the playing field it just annoys anyone that used 6*s to go for a basic champ.
    How is it twice as many rounds? EVEYRONE has their numbers lowered. Getting 16,5m points with 6 stars takes more rounds than 4m points with 5* champs. So the effort has decreased for the top 2 arena's. And therefor the units have been lowered.
    Your leveled up 6* champs will still score more points than your 5 stars since their PI is higher. You will still have more champs available than lower players because your 6* champs will never pull a deathsquad. The cutoff will no longer be 80m but will be lowered to 50. since EVERYONE now gets less points per round of 6* champs. You just still have way more champs to use for grinding than for example me. So you are still save.
    The point is most top end players grind for shards and champs not just units.. so getting 16.5m was never an issue

    Now we go back to getting less units for grinding single arena.
    Grinding the Trials should be a cake walk then.
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    Monk1 said:

    What a surprise. A giant middle finger to top end players to cater to a bunch of loud low to mid level players. At least they're being consistent with it these days

    People will have more of a chance to access 6*s when they have more need. That's not a bad thing. Unless you think the Featured AND the Basic should only go to people will 80-100+ 6*s.
    Well that's just nonsense. If I wanted a basic champ I still have my 150+ 6*s I can use. It just makes zero sense to ever use them outside of going for a champ. All it does it makes it far more annoying to do so as I'll have to do twice as many rounds as before. This doesn't even the playing field it just annoys anyone that used 6*s to go for a basic champ.
    How is it twice as many rounds? EVEYRONE has their numbers lowered. Getting 16,5m points with 6 stars takes more rounds than 4m points with 5* champs. So the effort has decreased for the top 2 arena's. And therefor the units have been lowered.
    Your leveled up 6* champs will still score more points than your 5 stars since their PI is higher. You will still have more champs available than lower players because your 6* champs will never pull a deathsquad. The cutoff will no longer be 80m but will be lowered to 50. since EVERYONE now gets less points per round of 6* champs. You just still have way more champs to use for grinding than for example me. So you are still save.
    The point is most top end players grind for shards and champs not just units.. so getting 16.5m was never an issue

    Now we go back to getting less units for grinding single arena.
    I wouldnt generalize "most".
    I grind for units, and shards are a nice addition.
    You grind for shards.
    Everyone grinds differently, a blanket statement isnt right.
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    Monk1Monk1 Posts: 748 ★★★★

    Monk1 said:

    What a surprise. A giant middle finger to top end players to cater to a bunch of loud low to mid level players. At least they're being consistent with it these days

    Could not agree more.. what a disgrace... why are my 6* and 5* now useless in arena.

    And it I read right the top arena have had units removed... just cause I have a massive account does not mean I pay to play and want to waste time grinding 4* champs
    Units are right there in the lower arena. So if you want them do it. It's not out of your reach you just don't want to do it.
    You struggle to understand.. units are secondary to me.. I grind for shards and champions. The units and Gm shards are a nice bonus

    However, why should I (and many others) now lose out cause a load of people moaned they wanted something for free.
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